A Flat Earth - Thoughts?

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jademunky:
The flat earth one is kinda unique in just how pointless it is. Like there is just no reason, if the earth were actually flat, the spooky global elites would actually bother covering it up. It would just be a normal thing.

The alien visitors conspiracy theory could be semi-justified with "well they want to prevent a panic" or something but with the flat earth we have an illuminati who just does it for the lulz.

I once read an argument for why they're covering it up. The argument was this:

If the earth is flat, then that's definitive proof that God exists. If God exists, that means we were created by God, ergo we are special. But if the earth is round, then the universe may conform to an atheistic point of view, and with atheism people aren't special we're just an accident that happened. If we think we're not special, we're easier to control and are more likely to sin and turn away from God. Essentially to them, the round earth is a conspiracy created by and spread by the devil to get people to turn away from God.

There are of course secular flat earth beliefs, but I find a lot of the time, it's a religious conviction.

saint of m:
Or if the workd is technicly flat, why are there cliffs and csnyons and hills

Fun fact, the distance between the earth's highest and lowest points is only 11 miles; were you to shrink the earth down to the size of a pool ball, it'd be smoother than the pool ball!

TakeyB0y2:

jademunky:
The flat earth one is kinda unique in just how pointless it is. Like there is just no reason, if the earth were actually flat, the spooky global elites would actually bother covering it up. It would just be a normal thing.

The alien visitors conspiracy theory could be semi-justified with "well they want to prevent a panic" or something but with the flat earth we have an illuminati who just does it for the lulz.

I once read an argument for why they're covering it up. The argument was this:

If the earth is flat, then that's definitive proof that God exists. If God exists, that means we were created by God, ergo we are special. But if the earth is round, then the universe may conform to an atheistic point of view, and with atheism people aren't special we're just an accident that happened. If we think we're not special, we're easier to control and are more likely to sin and turn away from God. Essentially to them, the round earth is a conspiracy created by and spread by the devil to get people to turn away from God.

There are of course secular flat earth beliefs, but I find a lot of the time, it's a religious conviction.

Yes, many fundamental believers think the "globe model" is a cover up disguising the existence of God... which is just dumb. I mean think about it: that would mean that at some point, some human beings discovered an omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent God, and instead of falling down prostrate in awe, they immediately devised a highly complex system of lies and deception to hide him (or her, equal opportunity over here,) and this same God allowed it. It doesn't make any kind of sense, even by their own, twisted "logic."

Besides, why are they convinced that a book written and translated hundreds upon hundreds of times over the course of thousands of years is to be taken literally. I'm Agnostic, so I'll give them "God," but my God endowed us with the ability to think rationally and critically, imbued us with intelligence, and wouldn't expect blind adherence to thousands of years old words on a page that often contradict what we're able to observe, calculate and experience. I'd much rather think that the reality we all share and are able to figure out are a part of that God's process and plan. But that's me.

aegix drakan:

Hawki:

aegix drakan:

Then again, he's also terribad with allegory and metaphor. He legit didn't get the central twist of the Lego Movie and was like "waaaaaaaat reaaaaally?" when I explained it to him. XD

As someone who finds the Lego Movie overrated, but also who doesn't want to be on the same level as a Flat Earther...

"So, the central twist is that almost everything that's happening in the film is the kid playing through a made up narrative-"

Ding ding ding. This is the part he didn't understand at all. And he complained that it was stupid and there's no way you can possibly figure that out without help because the movie didn't make it clear at all. XD

...Then again, he's also the same guy who, as one of the few people I know personally who has played my hobby RPGS, could not beat the final "cinematic" style fight at the end of one of them, so...

This is basically how that convo went:

Him: "The last fight is garbage hard man, even on Easy!"
Me: "Wat. It's the easiest fight in the game, with the simplest combat puzzle! What are you doing to lose it?"
Him: "Oh, I just mashed attack the whole time"
Me: "...Wat. But the whole game is based on using your Skills to counter enemy strategies. And this fight completely changes the hero's Skills, including the name of his Skill Menu! The second you open up the Skill Menu it should be super clear what to do to wi-"
Him: "But the cutscene made me look OP. If the cutscene makes me look OP I should be able to just mash attack and win!"
Me: "...Seriously? ...How many times did you fight the boss?"
Him: "6 times!"
Me: "You...fought it 6 times and didn't think to do anything other than mash attack? ...But..Like...If it didn't work the first 2 times, why-"
Him: "THE CUTSCENE MADE ME LOOK OP! Obviously I should be able to win by mashing attack!"
Me: *dying inside*

How many focus groups has this guy been a part of, if you don't mind me asking? Because he sounds like he just came from one...

an annoyed writer:

How many focus groups has this guy been a part of, if you don?t mind me asking? Because he sounds like he just came from one...

I honestly wish I knew. XD

After nearly a year and a half, I made the mistake of re-opening the "flat earth" can of worms with my friend a couple of days ago; he mentioned something about gravity (not the force, but in another context,) and I couldn't help myself, I popped in my witty dentures and bit him: "Oh, so NOW you believe in gravity?" He laughed me off at first, but about an hour later, the texts and video "proofs" started rolling in anew. We'd already agreed we wouldn't discuss his beliefs in earnest long ago, but my exhaustion over how positively asinine the flat earth conspiracy is quickly turned the corner and became foaming-at-the-mouth anger. I was livid; sent him a half dozen wall-of-text responses and as many "flat earth debunked" videos, all against my better judgement. But it's when he accused me of "not doing [my] research" that it hit me and what makes this nonsense debate so damned frustrating: I thought flat earthers were simply intellectually inferior, but they're intellectually dishonest.

"Research" means that you take a question, observe as much objective data as possible and reach a logical inference or conclusion. You can start off with a hypothesis, but you have to end where the data leads you. Flat earthers start with a conclusion, hand select the bits of data that suit their purpose and infer everything else is wrong. What the two-fucks kind of logic is that? Their videos = evidence, rational person's videos = faked. Their explanation = proof, rational person's explanation = lie. Every question they ask might as well be rhetorical, because they flat out ignore every rational and correct answer they get. I just wish they could look at themselves objectively and see how full of shit they are at the fundamental level, regardless of what they believe. I'd almost wager they suffer from some form of narcissistic personality disorder, but as the only medical degrees I have are the hash marks on my rectal thermometer, I certainly won't be putting out any "I'm 100% Positive That All Flat Earthers Have Narcissistic Personality Disorder And Here's The Proof" videos on YouTube and subsequently ignoring every psychologist that tries to tell me otherwise.

My friend bragged that the "flat earth community" was nearly 10 million strong and that people are waking up; I did the math for him and pointed out that given there's about 7 billion people on earth, I wouldn't call 0.1% of all people believing that bullshit "waking up" so much as it would be "a silent fart whilst in a coma."

Flat earth theory always brought into mind the television show Jericho, which took place on a flat earth.

No, really it did. It supposedly happened in the fictional town of Jericho, Kansas. Supposedly (I guess) in western Kansas. A line of dialogue references being able to see the Rocky Mountains from western Kansas... No. You can't. Because the earth is round. Because the curvature of the earth prevents you from seeing mountains that far away. So if there was a Costco in the next town over (there weren't back then) and you could SEE mountains in Colorado... the earth in that show must have been flat.

You think Flat Earthers are bad? Well one has finally recanted their insane beliefs, and seen the light ... ... kinda.

Philosophy Tube have some interesting insights about flat-earthers (and science-deniers in general)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGvGQSazaTM

tl;dr: They do it as a matter of principle. They see scientific evidence as nothing more but a means of persuasion.

Grouchy Imp:
You think Flat Earthers are bad? Well one has finally recanted their insane beliefs, and seen the light ... ... kinda.

Now we're a fucking donut... god damn it.

Not sure if you watched the video near the start of the article, but a typically arrogant and self-assured flat earther states the two reasons why "the lie" (and he never quite identifies who exactly started and is perpetuating this "lie") are 1.) all the money NASA has raises.... Yeah, apparently NASA RAISES money, and 2.) to make people feel insignificant and easier to control. Baseless facts stringing together nonsense and non sequitur. How they manage to sleep at night making up things to believe while ignoring empirical evidence directly in their faces, in fact, outright calling said evidence "a lie" simply because they can't disprove it (for obvious fucking reasons).... It's just supremely, superbly and superlatively idiotic.

CaitSeith:
Philosophy Tube have some interesting insights about flat-earthers (and science-deniers in general)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGvGQSazaTM

tl;dr: They do it as a matter of principle. They see scientific evidence as nothing more but a means of persuasion.

Thank you for sharing that; it is refreshing to hear an attempt at a rational take on how in every fuck flat earthers believe what they believe, though I'd have preferred it have been a medical/phsychological bent over a philosophical one, i.e.: yes, they think differently, but is it because of a severe form of brain damage?

Xprimentyl:

CaitSeith:
Philosophy Tube have some interesting insights about flat-earthers (and science-deniers in general)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGvGQSazaTM

tl;dr: They do it as a matter of principle. They see scientific evidence as nothing more but a means of persuasion.

Thank you for sharing that; it is refreshing to hear an attempt at a rational take on how in every fuck flat earthers believe what they believe, though I?d have preferred it have been a medical/phsychological bent over a philosophical one, i.e.: yes, they think differently, but is it because of a severe form of brain damage?

Unless it's contagious (like neurosyphilis), I doubt it.

CaitSeith:

Xprimentyl:

CaitSeith:
Philosophy Tube have some interesting insights about flat-earthers (and science-deniers in general)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGvGQSazaTM

tl;dr: They do it as a matter of principle. They see scientific evidence as nothing more but a means of persuasion.

Thank you for sharing that; it is refreshing to hear an attempt at a rational take on how in every fuck flat earthers believe what they believe, though I?d have preferred it have been a medical/phsychological bent over a philosophical one, i.e.: yes, they think differently, but is it because of a severe form of brain damage?

Unless it's contagious (like neurosyphilis), I doubt it.

Lol, I was being facetious, though our not knowing for sure is probably because flat earthers think the institution of medicine to be yet another system of control so don't get themselves tested deferring instead to TRUE healing methods like from crystals and elixirs an.... oh my god.

I've listened to that video twice now, and it is interesting how much sense it makes, but it begs the question how do we learn/teach anything if direct observation is the only thing to be trusted? Who determines what "persuasion" is benign and which is malicious and how so? And furthermore, what rational person who questions a certain persuasion and decides it to be malicious (because of reasons) just decides to believe the opposite? There's that breakdown in logic and reasons that perplexes me; it's utterly juvenile thinking to think because what I see makes more sense than what I don't understand in the thousands of years of science pretty much universally agreed upon is not just wrong, but a lie.

Xprimentyl:

Grouchy Imp:
You think Flat Earthers are bad? Well one has finally recanted their insane beliefs, and seen the light ... ... kinda.

Now we?re a fucking donut? god damn it.

Not sure if you watched the video near the start of the article, but a typically arrogant and self-assured flat earther states the two reasons why ?the lie? (and he never quite identifies who exactly started and is perpetuating this ?lie?) are 1.) all the money NASA has raises?. Yeah, apparently NASA RAISES money, and 2.) to make people feel insignificant and easier to control. Baseless facts stringing together nonsense and non sequitur. How they manage to sleep at night making up things to believe while ignoring empirical evidence directly in their faces, in fact, outright calling said evidence ?a lie? simply because they can?t disprove it (for obvious fucking reasons)?. It?s just supremely, superbly and superlatively idiotic.

Let's be honest here, if Flat Earthers were overly interested in facts and scientific proofs they wouldn't believe the Earth was flat in the first place.

So I've never met a flat earther in person, at least, not that I'm aware of, but I do have two questions for them.

If the earth is flat, how do time zones work? How can it be noon on one side of the earth and midnight on the other?

Also, how does travel between hemispheres work? Because I've personally flown and sailed between hemispheres numerous times in both directions and I certainly don't remember any drop offs and you'd think with a flat earth there would be one SOMEWHERE. I'm not even getting into stuff like tides and loss of water and gravity and such.

I could see being a flat earther if you'd never traveled outside your home region or didn't have access to TV that could show you live footage from the far side of the earth, or say, talked on the phone to someone numerous time zones away.....but beyond that it seems fucking bizarre. Like trying to convince someone the moon isn't real, it's just an illusion.

Dalisclock:
If the earth is flat, how do time zones work? How can it be noon on one side of the earth and midnight on the other?

Most will amit that's a thing. I then give them a large coin and tell them to hold it up to the sun in such a way that one part of the same face is lit and the other part isn't.

Usually works wonder at shutting up most of them, aside from some mumbling about trying to get you to think, sunlight being a narrow focused beam (the sun shoots us with lazors!) or hitting us at a sharp enough angle that it weakens in the atmosphere and eventually gets reflected/absorbed.

Also, how does travel between hemispheres work? Because I've personally flown and sailed between hemispheres numerous times in both directions and I certainly don't remember any drop offs and you'd think with a flat earth there would be one SOMEWHERE. I'm not even getting into stuff like tides and loss of water and gravity and such.

Oh, this one is easy.

Since the Earth is flat, and not a sphere, there obviously can't be hemispheres, can there? The continents, oceans and atmosphere are all on the same side. It's like a pizza. You don't put pizza toppings on the bottom, do you? That's why they're called toppings.

Chimpzy:

Since the Earth is flat, and not a sphere, there obviously can't be hemispheres, can there? The continents, oceans and atmosphere are all on the same side. It's like a pizza. You don't put pizza toppings on the bottom, do you? That's why they're called toppings.

So where's the crust/edge of the pizza/world?

Dalisclock:
So I've never met a flat earther in person, at least, not that I'm aware of, but I do have two questions for them.

If the earth is flat, how do time zones work? How can it be noon on one side of the earth and midnight on the other?

The one thing you have to understand about flat earthers is that their gravitational center is a highly dense core of confirmation bias; if they are faced with anything that doesn't fit within their Flat Earth model, they simply ignore it, deny it, or call it a lie. In the case of midnight and noon, one of their core beliefs is that the sun is NOT 93 million miles away, but a mere few thousand miles "above" us and it and the moon are both much smaller than "they've told us," and both rotate around the flat plane of earth like the hands of a clock. So, by their "logic," when it's midnight where you are, the sun is on the opposite of the flat plane hence it's noon there. Simple, right?

Dalisclock:
Also, how does travel between hemispheres work? Because I've personally flown and sailed between hemispheres numerous times in both directions and I certainly don't remember any drop offs and you'd think with a flat earth there would be one SOMEWHERE. I'm not even getting into stuff like tides and loss of water and gravity and such.

I could see being a flat earther if you'd never traveled outside your home region or didn't have access to TV that could show you live footage from the far side of the earth, or say, talked on the phone to someone numerous time zones away.....but beyond that it seems fucking bizarre. Like trying to convince someone the moon isn't real, it's just an illusion.

See my response to the time zone question; essentially, the "hemispheres" are just opposite halves of the pizza planet because of reasons. And recall what I said about confirmation bias? Their core tenet is that gravity isn't real because it's the one argument that pretty much debunks everything they believe so "conspiracy! Lies!" They argue often "how could water (the oceans) conform to the shape of a sphere when water naturally seeks its (flat) level and water on a sphere would run off?" Idiots. Or "how can the earth curve if planes fly level to the ground and aren't dipping their noses correcting for curvature every five minutes?" Dumbasses. Or my personal favorite: "If the earth is round, that would mean [relative to North America], planes in Australia would be flying upside down, and that's impossible!"

"GRA - VEH - TEEEEEEEEEEEE," YOU FUCKING GEENYUSEZ.

Dalisclock:

Chimpzy:

Since the Earth is flat, and not a sphere, there obviously can't be hemispheres, can there? The continents, oceans and atmosphere are all on the same side. It's like a pizza. You don't put pizza toppings on the bottom, do you? That's why they're called toppings.

So where's the crust/edge of the pizza/world?

They believe the North Pole is the "center" of the earth and the outer edge is, and I shit you not, a wall of ice patrolled by the world's governments by air and by sea to keep us from reaching it. Seriously, look up some "Flat Earth Proofs" on YouTube and prepare to have your mind blow by seemingly rational adults explaining this grade school fantasy with authority and smug condescension; it is simultaneously infuriating and fascinating.

Dalisclock:

Chimpzy:

Since the Earth is flat, and not a sphere, there obviously can't be hemispheres, can there? The continents, oceans and atmosphere are all on the same side. It's like a pizza. You don't put pizza toppings on the bottom, do you? That's why they're called toppings.

So where's the crust/edge of the pizza/world?

Pizza/world crust is delish. It has long since been eaten by the dinosaurs. Duh!

Xprimentyl:
See my response to the time zone question; essentially, the ?hemispheres? are just opposite halves of the pizza planet because of reasons.

They believe the North Pole is the ?center? of the earth and the outer edge is, and I shit you not, a wall of ice patrolled by the world?s governments by air and by sea to keep us from reaching it.

I especially like this. On one hand, the hemisphere are on opposite sides of the planetpizza. But on the other hand, the edge is so efficiently and covertly patrolled that no one on the whole fucking in the entire fucking history of mankind ever reached it and got to tell about it. So, how do people from one hemisphere travel to another?

Did everyone from the North side who ever took a vacation to Australia secretly tunnel through the planetpizza without noticing? Do we actually go over the edge, but the World Border Patrol drugs everyone with the lithium in the airplane exhaust into forgetting about it? Or has no one from the northern or southern hemisphere ever actually travelled to the other, but was instead secretly brought to some remote location that is made to look like their intended destination (again drugged. Aluminum vapor in the exhaust)?

Xprimentyl:

Dalisclock:

Dalisclock:
Also, how does travel between hemispheres work? Because I've personally flown and sailed between hemispheres numerous times in both directions and I certainly don't remember any drop offs and you'd think with a flat earth there would be one SOMEWHERE. I'm not even getting into stuff like tides and loss of water and gravity and such.

I could see being a flat earther if you'd never traveled outside your home region or didn't have access to TV that could show you live footage from the far side of the earth, or say, talked on the phone to someone numerous time zones away.....but beyond that it seems fucking bizarre. Like trying to convince someone the moon isn't real, it's just an illusion.

See my response to the time zone question; essentially, the ?hemispheres? are just opposite halves of the pizza planet because of reasons. And recall what I said about confirmation bias? Their core tenet is that gravity isn?t real because it?s the one argument that pretty much debunks everything they believe so ?conspiracy! Lies!? They argue often ?how could water (the oceans) conform to the shape of a sphere when water naturally seeks its (flat) level and water on a sphere would run off?? Idiots. Or ?how can the earth curve if planes fly level to the ground and aren?t dipping their noses correcting for curvature every five minutes?? Dumbasses. Or my personal favorite: ?If the earth is round, that would mean [relative to North America], planes in Australia would be flying upside down, and that?s impossible!?

?GRA ? VEH ? TEEEEEEEEEEEE,? YOU FUCKING GEENYUSEZ.

Dalisclock:
[quote="Chimpzy" post="18.1056260.24276889"]

Since the Earth is flat, and not a sphere, there obviously can't be hemispheres, can there? The continents, oceans and atmosphere are all on the same side. It's like a pizza. You don't put pizza toppings on the bottom, do you? That's why they're called toppings.

So where's the crust/edge of the pizza/world?

They believe the North Pole is the ?center? of the earth and the outer edge is, and I shit you not, a wall of ice patrolled by the world?s governments by air and by sea to keep us from reaching it. Seriously, look up some ?Flat Earth Proofs? on YouTube and prepare to have your mind blow by seemingly rational adults explaining this grade school fantasy with authority and smug condescension; it is simultaneously infuriating and fascinating.

Sounds like it.

I imagine it's like arguing with a small child, except the child has a reason for being ignorant. I have no clue with what's up with apparent adults who presumably totally believe this shit(and not the people who are pretending to as a joke).

Well, I knew one guy who liked to claim that the Hubble space telescope was actually a spy satellite and that's why the mirror was replaced....because reasons. I suspect he might have been a flat Earther. He apparently doesn't believe evolution is real too because..."No mutation is beneficial" or some such shit.

And I didn't even ask how seasons work on a flat earth? How is it Winter in the Summer hemisphere but Summer in the Northern at the same time? How would that work on a flat surface?

When you have to come up with convoluted and overly complicated explanations to explain how normal everything things work because somehow "The Earth is a Sphere" just can't be/isn't possible, it begs the question what exactly you think this is gaining you.

I have a very strange affection for Flat-Earthers. The concepts and mockups they come up with for a flat Earth are just amazing. It's like they came straight out of an old-school JRPG, filled with adventure. Beyond the Ice Wall is the unknown. Maybe you'll fall off. Maybe you'll find truth beyond mortal comprehension. Maybe it's Golden Sun and the world is eroding. Maybe it's Grandia and the wall is a sham, leading to the rest of the world.

Seriously sit down and watch this, then tell me you don't get that JRPG mystery feel. Just have some alcohol ready.

Leg End:
I have a very strange affection for Flat-Earthers. The concepts and mockups they come up with for a flat Earth are just amazing. It's like they came straight out of an old-school JRPG, filled with adventure. Beyond the Ice Wall is the unknown. Maybe you'll fall off. Maybe you'll find truth beyond mortal comprehension. Maybe it's Golden Sun and the world is eroding. Maybe it's Grandia and the wall is a sham, leading to the rest of the world.

Seriously sit down and watch this, then tell me you don't get that JRPG mystery feel. Just have some alcohol ready.

I'd generally like to agree with you; there is an innocent charm/humor to someone being so assured of something so wrong, but with these characters (and maybe it's closer to home for me because my best friend is a flat earther,) when they act so smug, so self-righteous, so condescending whilst clearly ignoring facts and dismissing evidence contrary to what they want to believe, I just want to choke them! They literally have NO proof of their bullshit, yet they demand proof of our bullshit, and when presented with the evidence and proof of our bullshit, they CALL bullshit! eeeeeeeeeeAAAAAAAARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just left a lengthy comment on that video you shared telling them exactly what I think of them, mostly for catharsis, and it worked because now I need a cigarette.

What wisdom and use is there to gain if we find out that the Earth is truly 100% flat?

And also this is the ultimate arguement to be made against Flat Earthers.

If the Earth was flat, Europe would have never found the Americas.

Dalisclock:
So I've never met a flat earther in person, at least, not that I'm aware of, but I do have two questions for them.

I have a third one.
So, even assuming you're a flat earther, that never traveled by ship or an airplane, you can still see the sky, right?
Explain this: Why can we see celestial objects the way they are. Spherical.
If Earth is just a flat disk floating in the space, why wouldn't other planets, satelites[1], Sun be shaped like that as well?
Is Earth special in that way? Are those other objects we see constantly facing their flat surface towards the Earth? Did the gubment fake the sky???

Samtemdo8:
What wisdom and use is there to gain if we find out that the Earth is truly 100% flat?

And also this is the ultimate arguement to be made against Flat Earthers.

If the Earth was flat, Europe would have never found the Americas.

Now that one can be easily explained, though. Assuming entire known landmass is on the one side of the disc.

[1] Hell, Moon itself should be enough proof how stupid all of that is.

I've never actually met one, but I'm glad I haven't. It baffles me that anyone could be dumb and/or crazy enough to believe that... how do people even believe in that kind of nonsense to begin with?

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