When Big Corporations copy from Regular People Artistically.

As some of you know, I'm into Martial Arts. My first as many kids growing up in America was Tae Kwon Do. Although I don't follow it strictly any more, I have a soft spot in my heart for it.

There's a Martial Artist Youtuber named Kwonkicker. And he just posted this.

DC Animated Film of "Batman vs Robin" steals Kwonkicker's fight sequence.

It's a few seconds in the movie. He didn't mention any other fight sequences he made put into the movie. But as he says, it's step by step, angle to angle reproduction.

We've been seeing a bit of this for a while. From Ex-Ign reviewer stealing other people's reviews to certain games using Fan mods as a basis for DLC content.

And after the shitshow that is Fallout 76, I don't have that much good faith in Bethesda any more. So that coincidence seems more questionable to me now more than ever before.

Now, Bethesda supposedly has something in their EULA that any mod you make using their assets is technically theirs. But that doesn't get DC or IGN off the hook when that have people in their departments clipping off ideas from Regular people and hoping to get away with it.

What is your take when Big Businesses copy artistic work from the little guy? Do you not mind it? Does it make you want to go out for blood?

I don't think it could ever be a good thing, or how anybody but the relevant people within the relevant corporation could see it as a good thing. There may be variations on the level of sly cuntiness involved in the process, such as Warner Bros and their "competitions" getting the public to write scripts for them and rewarding the winners with nothing but measly dumb-bucks and a free trip to the company toilets. But it's all on the side of punching down, profiteering off the work of the underdogs.

The first part isn't ok.

The second part is.

Like, people complain that TES/Fallout games dont have these features, make mods for them, then Bethesda uses that? Gee, sorry you got what you wanted.

Big whoop, "Little guys" copy off of "Big Businesses" all the time, so why not have the reverse happen now and again 🤷‍♂️

You copy some of mine, I copy some of yours, everybody's happy.

My take? If you're the small creator, sue the bastards! If their stance towards regular people is to send copyright strikes, they don't deserve a free pass on using regular people's work without permission.

To be fair to the DC people, animators and comic writers in general are some of the laziest, slap-dash people around.
Remember when Marvel blatantly 'copied' from Warhammer 40k?
https://graphicpolicy.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/marvel-tau-1.jpg?w=860&h=718

https://graphicpolicy.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/marvel-tau-2.jpg?w=860

https://graphicpolicy.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/marvel-eldar.jpg?w=860&h=711

https://graphicpolicy.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/marvel-bolt-pistol.jpg?w=860

Its not good by any means, but its not new by any means either. As for the review, yeah that shitty. And the more I hear about F76, the more I think it was super duper rushed. Like thrown together in 6 weeks kinda rushed.

ObsidianJones:
As some of you know, I'm into Martial Arts. My first as many kids growing up in America was Tae Kwon Do. Although I don't follow it strictly any more, I have a soft spot in my heart for it.

There's a Martial Artist Youtuber named Kwonkicker. And he just posted this.

DC Animated Film of "Batman vs Robin" steals Kwonkicker's fight sequence.

It's a few seconds in the movie. He didn't mention any other fight sequences he made put into the movie. But as he says, it's step by step, angle to angle reproduction.

Playing Devil's Advocate here, but how do we know that Kwonkicker's fight scene is completely new, original, distinct , and never having been done before? Maybe those movies are typical moves used in that particular style of fighting and it's just coincidence that they looked alike.
The camera angle looks like pretty standard fare for cartoons, T.V. and movies. Hell, even comic books would most likely have a similar layout for a fight scene.

twistedmic:

ObsidianJones:
As some of you know, I'm into Martial Arts. My first as many kids growing up in America was Tae Kwon Do. Although I don't follow it strictly any more, I have a soft spot in my heart for it.

There's a Martial Artist Youtuber named Kwonkicker. And he just posted this.

DC Animated Film of "Batman vs Robin" steals Kwonkicker's fight sequence.

It's a few seconds in the movie. He didn't mention any other fight sequences he made put into the movie. But as he says, it's step by step, angle to angle reproduction.

Playing Devil's Advocate here, but how do we know that Kwonkicker's fight scene is completely new, original, distinct , and never having been done before? Maybe those movies are typical moves used in that particular style of fighting and it's just coincidence that they looked alike.
The camera angle looks like pretty standard fare for cartoons, T.V. and movies. Hell, even comic books would most likely have a similar layout for a fight scene.

Hey, I always love a good Devil's Advocate.

You're absolutely right about Kwonkicker possibly coming up with a similar fighting sequence as someone else. After all, the human body can only move in some many different ways.

But that's all we really can give it.

The Tempo is the same. The positioning is the same. The Camera Angles and cuts are exactly the same. Rotoscoping is a known thing. Naruto was particularly egregious with this. And while Naruto can get away with saying that they are paying Homage to Jackie Chan or Cowboy Bebop, you can't pay homage to a youtuber of KwonKicker's following, no matter how good he is.

In fact, I don't think there's a Martial Art Youtuber big enough to pay homage to them as of yet. You pay Homages to decades-old legends. You steal from people who you think no one will recognize.

bluegate:
Big whoop, "Little guys" copy off of "Big Businesses" all the time, so why not have the reverse happen now and again 🤷‍♂️

You copy some of mine, I copy some of yours, everybody's happy.

You left out the part where the little guy gets sued into the ground.

ObsidianJones:

twistedmic:

ObsidianJones:
As some of you know, I'm into Martial Arts. My first as many kids growing up in America was Tae Kwon Do. Although I don't follow it strictly any more, I have a soft spot in my heart for it.

There's a Martial Artist Youtuber named Kwonkicker. And he just posted this.

DC Animated Film of "Batman vs Robin" steals Kwonkicker's fight sequence.

It's a few seconds in the movie. He didn't mention any other fight sequences he made put into the movie. But as he says, it's step by step, angle to angle reproduction.

Playing Devil's Advocate here, but how do we know that Kwonkicker's fight scene is completely new, original, distinct , and never having been done before? Maybe those movies are typical moves used in that particular style of fighting and it's just coincidence that they looked alike.
The camera angle looks like pretty standard fare for cartoons, T.V. and movies. Hell, even comic books would most likely have a similar layout for a fight scene.

Hey, I always love a good Devil's Advocate.

You're absolutely right about Kwonkicker possibly coming up with a similar fighting sequence as someone else. After all, the human body can only move in some many different ways.

But that's all we really can give it.

The Tempo is the same. The positioning is the same. The Camera Angles and cuts are exactly the same. Rotoscoping is a known thing. Naruto was particularly egregious with this. And while Naruto can get away with saying that they are paying Homage to Jackie Chan or Cowboy Bebop, you can't pay homage to a youtuber of KwonKicker's following, no matter how good he is.

In fact, I don't think there's a Martial Art Youtuber big enough to pay homage to them as of yet. You pay Homages to decades-old legends. You steal from people who you think no one will recognize.

With respect, is it possible to claim you invented a fight strung together from techniques that can be as old as the Bronze Age?

Drathnoxis:

bluegate:
Big whoop, "Little guys" copy off of "Big Businesses" all the time, so why not have the reverse happen now and again 🤷‍♂️

You copy some of mine, I copy some of yours, everybody's happy.

You left out the part where the little guy gets sued into the ground.

Doesn't seem to happen that often though?

Gordon_4:
With respect, is it possible to claim you invented a fight strung together from techniques that can be as old as the Bronze Age?

Actually, yes, fixed choreography is protected under US copyright law.

While you can't claim to have invented individual movements, you can claim to have created an original planned sequence of movements with a specific timing, aka a choreography, provided it has been transfered to a tangible medium such as video or precise written dance notation. Choreography copyright is confusing and complicated at best though, even by copyright law standards.

Gordon_4:
With respect, is it possible to claim you invented a fight strung together from techniques that can be as old as the Bronze Age?

To expand on Chimpzy who already said it, we'll just go to the explanation of 1976 Copyright Law.

Copyright Registration for Choreography

Because all copyrighted works must be "fixed in a tangible medium of expression," choreographic works are typically submitted to the Copyright Office for registration on video; or described in text or depicted in photographs or drawings; or recorded in a traditional dance notation format (e.g., Labanotation or Benesh Notation). Regardless of which of these forms is used, the fixation must be in sufficient detail to be the template for subsequent, uniform performances.

When considering whether a work is "choreography," the Copyright Office considers several factors typical of choreographic works, including the presence of rhythmic movements from a dancer?s body in a defined space; compositional arrangement into a coherent, integrated whole; musical or textual accompaniment; and dramatic content such as a story or theme. The Copyright Office will also consider whether the work is designed to be performed by skilled individuals for an audience. Works must additionally have a sufficient level of original authorial contribution, which means that they must be independently created and contain a sufficient amount of creativity.

(Source)

So, while a flurry of wild punches might not be considered under copyright law because the director didn't specify how to punch, if a stunt choreographer told the act "Front Jab, Straight Punch, Lead hook, grab shoulders to rear knee"... Yeah, that could possibly considered choreography.

Gordon_4:
With respect, is it possible to claim you invented a fight strung together from techniques that can be as old as the Bronze Age?

No more than you can claim you invented a tune strung together from prior chords and notes and played on instruments that can be as old as the stone age.

ObsidianJones:
to certain games using Fan mods as a basis for DLC content.

This has been rolling for a long time. I think Valve took flak for (allegedly) implementing L4D concepts suggested by players. On the other hand, you never entirely know that a dev and a modder haven't both thought of the same idea - but the devs of course don't reveal trade secrets. It's highly likely if 1000 people suggest ideas, one's going to be very close to what a dev thinks up.

I think companies should reward modders they have "borrowed" from: even just a few hundred dollars costs them effectively nothing and shows "good faith". Although, of course, individual employees are likely to want the kudos of a creation so are motivated not to admit their 'inspiration' and hope the bosses don't notice. In some cases, of course, modders have got job offers based on their work.

Generally, people should be more aware of copyright. Like, all those photos we put on Facebook and have consequently gifted Facebook the copyright to. Frankly, this is not dissimilar to some of the shit about things like Kickstarter and Patreon. Basically, you're often giving your money to people with plenty of money to spare for a return that doesn't even remotely match your contribution. Savvy people are investors. Crowdfunding can be supporting little guys in good faith, but also can be companies bypassing investors to get money and thus keeping the profits.

I know it's kicking someone when he's down but it's Milo Yiannopoulos so I don't feel bad: he's run into debt and disrepute problems. He's trying to get people to fund him to do stuff, but at the same time retorted he's making $40k a month to answer people laughing at his financial woes. He can fund himself: but he'd just rather rip other people off instead.

And after the shitshow that is Fallout 76, I don't have that much good faith in Bethesda any more.

To be fair, many things are very rocky when they start out, but end up okay after a while. Elite: Dangerous for instance was effectively released as a pretty bare-bones system, and they used the feedback and sales to develop the game. On the other hand, most E:D players knew that was what would be happening. Hey, speaking of which and also relevant to Kickstarter, is Star Citizen due anytime this century?

Gordon_4:
With respect, is it possible to claim you invented a fight strung together from techniques that can be as old as the Bronze Age?

Yes. Like you can copyright specific yoga routines but not the individual poses, or can copyright pieces of text, but not the individual words.

 

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