Defy took $1.7 million

Matpat just made a video detailing how crooked Defy really was.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACNhHTqIVqk

That's nice. Please provide discussion points for thread.

Basement Cat:
That's nice. Please provide discussion points for thread.

I don't like typing on my phone.

But now that I'm at the library, I can somewhat talk more freely.

Discussion: With the release of this video, I do wonder if more people will start to publicly call out against Defy and hopefully get their money back. Maybe the new owner of this site would speak more of the circumstances now that the legal issues have been suspended?

Is there a source for this info that doesn't involve me having to listen to or watch MatPat?

Something Amyss:
Is there a source for this info that doesn't involve me having to listen to or watch MatPat?

Apparently he's the only source, so no.
Blurb from under the video:

In November 2018, Defy Media shut down without any notice. They laid off their workers without warning and have held ransom the money earned by the YouTube Creators who were in their network. I was one of those Creators. Defy was my former employer and the multichannel network that represented Game Theory, Film Theory, and GTLive - EVERYTHING. We trusted them to help us and for that we and 49 other Creators in their network collectively lost 1.7 MILLION DOLLARS. Money that was owed to us, EARNED by us, and taken by DEFY. Today, the fate of that money rests in the hands of a bank, Ally Bank, who will decide the people who get their money back and those who are out of luck. After trying other methods of solving the situation, nothing has worked, so at this point we have no choice but to make our fight public. Steph and I have personally been going out of pocket to try and get everyone's money back, but to improve your chances, we need your help.

Something Amyss:
Is there a source for this info that doesn't involve me having to listen to or watch MatPat?

Kinda of the same. Mattpat isn't really what I consider a reliable primary source. Matpat is that guy who either rambles on for a while about shit that might be really obvious upon examination(Was Snake smoking something special in MGSV that makes the time go by faster? Ya think?) or incredibly convoluted theories pulled out of his ass(a whole lot more). I'm kinda hoping for something a little more....."Journalistic", as broad as that term tends to be with this industry.

I was just thinking about making a thread similar to this. I think there's some interesting room for discussion, as the escapist itself was once in the stagnant thrall of Defy, where they spent like 5-6 years sucking the life out of the escapist by firing all the tech staff, most of the editorial, and sucking up all the ad revenue.

Remember when all that held this place up was Yahtzee for like 3 years?

They killed Gametrailers and several other medium sized gaming channels back in the mid-teens.

Then they sold the Gametrailers name and library to IGN, and eventually sold the Escapist back to Russ and co.

And now that they've folded it's almost amazing to see what other kinds of devastation has been left in the wake.

In terms of discussion, this Variety article points to at least a few warning signs that have been rumbling for awhile:

https://variety.com/2018/digital/news/defy-media-shutting-down-layoffs-1203020919/

Variety Magazine:
The shutdown of Defy comes after a series of cutbacks and divestitures by the company. This past March, Defy laid off 8% of its workforce, exiting its programmatic advertising and video licensing and syndication businesses. Then in July, the company sold its long-languishing The Escapist video-game website to Canada?s Enthusiast Gaming and also announced a deal with Fandom to sell Screen Junkies, its entertainment news and parody property.

Defy Media was formed through the merger of Alloy Digital and Break Media in 2013. Two years ago, the company announced $70 million in funding led by Wellington Management Co. Previous investors include ABS Capital, Lionsgate, Viacom and Zelnick Media Capital.

Defy distributed its original programming across more than 25 video platforms, including YouTube, subscription VOD services and TV networks.

Feel free to speculate on the nature of investment and private equity firms and how more often than not you have big companies buying other companies not to actually grow them but to flip them or cannibalize them at profit

ochimusha:
I was just thinking about making a thread similar to this. I think there's some interesting room for discussion, as the escapist itself was once in the stagnant thrall of Defy, where they spent like 5-6 years sucking the life out of the escapist by firing all the tech staff, most of the editorial, and sucking up all the ad revenue.

Remember when all that held this place up was Yahtzee for like 3 years?

They killed Gametrailers and several other medium sized gaming channels back in the mid-teens.

Then they sold the Gametrailers name and library to IGN, and eventually sold the Escapist back to Russ and co.

And now that they've folded it's almost amazing to see what other kinds of devastation has been left in the wake.

Yea, I am thankful Enthusiasts Gaming came in and saved Escapist before Defy took it down with the ship. I feel so bad for all of those who have their livelihood tied up in this mess. YouTube really needs to change their policies on forcing creators to have MCM's to be able to hold their copyrights. YouTube's requirements is part of the problem that causes creators to be taken advantage of and lose their money when something like this happens. Honestly though with how cooked their books appear to be, I think Mattpat may have his hopes set too high in ever seeing a dime of what they are owed even if the unpaid creators set a record for views, it would not change the order in line to get paid due to who is in line in font of them.

Not that I don't believe it, but this is MatPat and has been pointed out, he's the only source for this. Everyone else is just quoting Matpat.

I feel especially bad for the guys who sold Smosh in exchange for stock in Defy, stock that never went public, so he wasn't able to cash them out, meaning he sold it for nothing. :s

Dalisclock:

Something Amyss:
Is there a source for this info that doesn't involve me having to listen to or watch MatPat?

Kinda of the same. Mattpat isn't really what I consider a reliable primary source. Matpat is that guy who either rambles on for a while about shit that might be really obvious upon examination(Was Snake smoking something special in MGSV that makes the time go by faster? Ya think?) or incredibly convoluted theories pulled out of his ass(a whole lot more). I'm kinda hoping for something a little more....."Journalistic", as broad as that term tends to be with this industry.

And he's evidently involved in the story, which makes things a little more questionable. I've heard rumblings about Defy for a long time (and went out of my way to not patronise their material), but I was hoping for something a little more concrete

Marik2:

Basement Cat:
That's nice. Please provide discussion points for thread.

I don't like typing on my phone.

But now that I'm at the library, I can somewhat talk more freely.

Discussion: With the release of this video, I do wonder if more people will start to publicly call out against Defy and hopefully get their money back. Maybe the new owner of this site would speak more of the circumstances now that the legal issues have been suspended?

Silentpony:
Not that I don't believe it, but this is MatPat and has been pointed out, he's the only source for this. Everyone else is just quoting Matpat.

This has been pointed out since a couple of months ago by others

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IWin4yv6BI

defy is gone? Wow this site Dodge a bullet...

tf2godz:
defy is gone? Wow this site Dodge a bullet...

Hell ya they did. All hail Enthusiast Gaming!! THANK YOU RUSS for saving us!! <3

imageimageimage

Lil devils x:

tf2godz:
defy is gone? Wow this site Dodge a bullet...

Hell ya they did. All hail Enthusiast Gaming!! THANK YOU RUSS for saving us!! <3

imageimageimage

I'm still wondering how much this site was worth.

Id doubt anyone is getting their money back. That's the opposite of how money and bankruptcy works.

trunkage:
Id doubt anyone is getting their money back. That's the opposite of how money and bankruptcy works.

Depending on the type of bankruptcy, and the scenario, you have to make right with your creditors on some level.

Something Amyss:

trunkage:
Id doubt anyone is getting their money back. That's the opposite of how money and bankruptcy works.

Depending on the type of bankruptcy, and the scenario, you have to make right with your creditors on some level.

Not ALL Creditors, that is what Matpat and smosh are worried about because they are too far down on the list it is likely they will never see a cent. The bankruptcy laws are set up to protect creditors and banks moreso than clients. These guys will likely get screwed as the money will be gobbled up by the lawyers doing the bankruptcy, creditors, insurers, and bondholders first. Likely there will be nothing left after they get very far in that stack.

EDIT: here this may help understand the order they will be paid and these guys are on the bottom of the list:

https://work.chron.com/gets-paid-first-company-goes-bankrupt-7496.html

Man how do you embed YouTube videos again?

EDIT: Really doesn't wanna work huh. Anyway, here, from Mr Sunday Movies aka James from the Weekly Planet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBcbknAcJwk

And Chris Stuckmann's video too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgL-d7SdQO4

Preeeeetty shitty situation. It seems these guys will be able to move on from this potential loss but there are a lot of other YouTubers for whom I'm sure this was a big blow.

Marik2:

I'm still wondering how much this site was worth.

You're still here, so it's worth something, both to you and to Enthusiast's bottom dollar (assuming you aren't blocking ads)

Most people are interested in long-term and sustainable businesses, but the the motive for profits definitely creates a perverse incentive to tank some businesses for short term gains.

The escapist can rise again, it's not like the verge, vice, wired, and gamasutra can hog all the written content on games

To be clear. Defy went bancrupt and it's unclear who gets what money is left. This rather sucks for a group of 50 content creators who were still owed something akin to their salaries from Defy (youtube funnels adrevenue of creators through organisations that do something or other to do with copyright legal stuff which is what Defy did for these people).

Lil devils x:

Something Amyss:

trunkage:
Id doubt anyone is getting their money back. That's the opposite of how money and bankruptcy works.

Depending on the type of bankruptcy, and the scenario, you have to make right with your creditors on some level.

Not ALL Creditors, that is what Matpat and smosh are worried about because they are too far down on the list it is likely they will never see a cent.

Well yeah, but I was replying to someone saying that getting paid isn't how bankruptcy works, and...it's not that clear cut was my point.

Bob_McMillan:
Man how do you embed YouTube videos again?

You don't. The feature is broken and not getting fixed on v1 Escapist. Hopefully, the v2 forums will have the feature, updated to work.

Lil devils x:

Something Amyss:

trunkage:
Id doubt anyone is getting their money back. That's the opposite of how money and bankruptcy works.

Depending on the type of bankruptcy, and the scenario, you have to make right with your creditors on some level.

Not ALL Creditors, that is what Matpat and smosh are worried about because they are too far down on the list it is likely they will never see a cent. The bankruptcy laws are set up to protect creditors and banks moreso than clients. These guys will likely get screwed as the money will be gobbled up by the lawyers doing the bankruptcy, creditors, insurers, and bondholders first. Likely there will be nothing left after they get very far in that stack.

EDIT: here this may help understand the order they will be paid and these guys are on the bottom of the list:

https://work.chron.com/gets-paid-first-company-goes-bankrupt-7496.html

This doesn't have employees or contractors listed. They're last. A bankruptcy can try to make it fair, giving a greater precentage to people higher on the triage scale. There are also levels to stockholders. If you invested early, you go to the top of the list for payouts to stockholders. Some people with enough money demand this status, even if the invest late. They usually have to invest a larger amount. So one of these prime stockholders might get 30c/dollar back but a low level might only get 20c.

A person who leads a company through bankruptcy usually gets paid millions, so anything leftover is usually sucked up by then first

trunkage:
This doesn't have employees or contractors listed. They're last.

...which, as it's been explained, is why they're concerned. This is still different from "that's not how bankruptcy works" and, because we don't know the state of Defy, we can't make that determination ourselves.

Bob_McMillan:
Man how do you embed YouTube videos again?

You don't, doesn't work here anymore. Which isn't even that off-topic, as it happens.

ochimusha:

(assuming you aren't blocking ads)

I'm using ad block on my phone.

Something Amyss:

Bob_McMillan:
Man how do you embed YouTube videos again?

You don't. The feature is broken and not getting fixed on v1 Escapist. Hopefully, the v2 forums will have the feature, updated to work.

I can still see and embed videos by using the library computer with firefox. I never had an issue, even when the site layout changed.

Marik2:
I can still see and embed videos by using the library computer with firefox. I never had an issue, even when the site layout changed.

Firefox on my PC and phone doesn't display videos, and people seem to have the same experience. Don't know what's different in your case, but you appear to be the minority here.

 

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here