Super Left/Super Right Bias in Gaming Media

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 NEXT
 

Hawki:

We've had this conversation before, but is there a single game that has ever dealt in LGBTQ themes (not representation, themes)?

2064: Read Only Memories

Hawki:

We've had this conversation before, but is there a single game that has ever dealt in LGBTQ themes (not representation, themes)?

Dragon Quest 11 is one of those, as a party member (Sylvando) is clearly very very very gay but it's never made to be a weird or special thing, and he's percieved as a normal person despite him acting the way he does. There's even a gay parade in one part that you as the player can also lead which is absolutely hilarious. The game never beats you over the head with it like how Dragon Age likes to and it's more treated as a regular everyday thing and not worth pointing out. Also his skill tree is a mirror image of the sex-appeal/allure skill tree that the hot heroines tend to have in the series, so his gayness is indeed weaponized as much as boobies and fanservice! XD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkmpPH5e30w

Dreiko:

That doesn't work in the historic context of the Peloponesian war, since everyone was free to be bisexual basically. Fundamentally, the notion of making a purely gay character is at fault and people were caught up in their own notions that they were projecting onto the game, while the game itself just makes you able to be bisexual, as showcased by your hero having a baby in the dlc story.

Being gay isn't a fashion statement. Gay people don't wander around thinking to themselves; "If only society would let me be bisexual." And it is most cliched plot device ever. If they were legitimately trying to channel the historicity of the age, he'd pull a Socrates and not give a shit about his kids and spouse while wandering about not bothering to get a job and getting blind drunk, when he can just be a violent contrarian and kill people over slights to his masculinity or intellect (speaking specifically of your character, though apprently Socrates was also a really mean drunk and him and his mates had a terrible reputation with their nights on the town).

Secondly Greek sexuality was more complex than modern concepts of bisexuality.

Dreiko:

That doesn't work in the historic context of the Peloponesian war, since everyone was free to be bisexual basically. Fundamentally, the notion of making a purely gay character is at fault and people were caught up in their own notions that they were projecting onto the game, while the game itself just makes you able to be bisexual, as showcased by your hero having a baby in the dlc story.

Addendum_Forthcoming:

Being gay isn't a fashion statement. Gay people don't wander around thinking to themselves; "If only society would let me be bisexual." And it is most cliched plot device ever. If they were legitimately trying to channel the historicity of the age, he'd pull a Socrates and not give a shit about his kids and spouse while wandering about not bothering to get a job and getting blind drunk, when he can just be a violent contrarian and kill people over slights to his masculinity or intellect (speaking specifically of your character, though apprently Socrates was also a really mean drunk and him and his mates had a terrible reputation with their nights on the town).

Secondly Greek sexuality was more complex than modern concepts of bisexuality.

Straight, gay or bi; the historic context would apply only if your character was someone who existed in real world history. Otherwise the author gets to set the rules for the character's available choices, and people is complaining about the change of rules between the main game and the DLC. If you haven't ask the author themselves, then saying the change was motivated by historic context is merely guessing.

Dreiko:

Hawki:

We've had this conversation before, but is there a single game that has ever dealt in LGBTQ themes (not representation, themes)?

Dragon Quest 11 is one of those, as a party member (Sylvando) is clearly very very very gay but it's never made to be a weird or special thing, and he's percieved as a normal person despite him acting the way he does. There's even a gay parade in one part that you as the player can also lead which is absolutely hilarious. The game never beats you over the head with it like how Dragon Age likes to and it's more treated as a regular everyday thing and not worth pointing out. Also his skill tree is a mirror image of the sex-appeal/allure skill tree that the hot heroines tend to have in the series, so his gayness is indeed weaponized as much as boobies and fanservice! XD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkmpPH5e30w

So it is just as apparent and in your face as bioware titles, its just in a jokey disarming way that you approve of instead of a serious way that makes you uncomfortable.

Man you got some serious bias here

undeadsuitor:

Dreiko:

Hawki:

We've had this conversation before, but is there a single game that has ever dealt in LGBTQ themes (not representation, themes)?

Dragon Quest 11 is one of those, as a party member (Sylvando) is clearly very very very gay but it's never made to be a weird or special thing, and he's percieved as a normal person despite him acting the way he does. There's even a gay parade in one part that you as the player can also lead which is absolutely hilarious. The game never beats you over the head with it like how Dragon Age likes to and it's more treated as a regular everyday thing and not worth pointing out. Also his skill tree is a mirror image of the sex-appeal/allure skill tree that the hot heroines tend to have in the series, so his gayness is indeed weaponized as much as boobies and fanservice! XD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkmpPH5e30w

So it is just as apparent and in your face as bioware titles, its just in a jokey disarming way that you approve of instead of a serious way that makes you uncomfortable.

Man you got some serious bias here

It's about how much of the char is made to revolve around their sexuality. Sylv is more like a regular human who just does everything very gayly as opposed to someone whose actions are directly informed by them being gay. In his mind being flamboyant is just the best way to be happy and spread cheer which is his reason for living and he is a world-famous performer so even the world fully accepts him and admires his showmanship. It's shown to be a normal thing and not something to put undue focus on. They never directly point to it as being "different" in any way at all to how other people are behaving, it's treated as normal, which allows him to be an actual character and not a tropey token.

Dreiko:

undeadsuitor:

Dreiko:

Dragon Quest 11 is one of those, as a party member (Sylvando) is clearly very very very gay but it's never made to be a weird or special thing, and he's percieved as a normal person despite him acting the way he does. There's even a gay parade in one part that you as the player can also lead which is absolutely hilarious. The game never beats you over the head with it like how Dragon Age likes to and it's more treated as a regular everyday thing and not worth pointing out. Also his skill tree is a mirror image of the sex-appeal/allure skill tree that the hot heroines tend to have in the series, so his gayness is indeed weaponized as much as boobies and fanservice! XD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkmpPH5e30w

So it is just as apparent and in your face as bioware titles, its just in a jokey disarming way that you approve of instead of a serious way that makes you uncomfortable.

Man you got some serious bias here

It's about how much of the char is made to revolve around their sexuality. Sylv is more like a regular human who just does everything very gayly as opposed to someone whose actions are directly informed by them being gay. In his mind being flamboyant is just the best way to be happy and spread cheer which is his reason for living and he is a world-famous performer so even the world fully accepts him and admires his showmanship. It's shown to be a normal thing and not something to put undue focus on. They never directly point to it as being "different" in any way at all to how other people are behaving, it's treated as normal, which allows him to be an actual character and not a tropey token.

So he's a flamboyant character who acts flamboyantly, dresses flamboyantly, and whose in-game skill set revolves around his flamboyant sexuality.

How is it not revolving around his sexuality again?

CaitSeith:

Hawki:

We've had this conversation before, but is there a single game that has ever dealt in LGBTQ themes (not representation, themes)?

2064: Read Only Memories

I might be wrong but I'm gonna volunteer A Night in the Woods.

undeadsuitor:

Dreiko:

undeadsuitor:

So it is just as apparent and in your face as bioware titles, its just in a jokey disarming way that you approve of instead of a serious way that makes you uncomfortable.

Man you got some serious bias here

It's about how much of the char is made to revolve around their sexuality. Sylv is more like a regular human who just does everything very gayly as opposed to someone whose actions are directly informed by them being gay. In his mind being flamboyant is just the best way to be happy and spread cheer which is his reason for living and he is a world-famous performer so even the world fully accepts him and admires his showmanship. It's shown to be a normal thing and not something to put undue focus on. They never directly point to it as being "different" in any way at all to how other people are behaving, it's treated as normal, which allows him to be an actual character and not a tropey token.

So he's a flamboyant character who acts flamboyantly, dresses flamboyantly, and whose in-game skill set revolves around his flamboyant sexuality.

How is it not revolving around his sexuality again?

Cause the game presents these acts as him being merely charismatic and chivalrous in his own way and not tied to sexuality.

If flamboyancy equals gay, then gay people are the most overrepresented group in all of Japanese media.

Dreiko:

undeadsuitor:

Dreiko:

It's about how much of the char is made to revolve around their sexuality. Sylv is more like a regular human who just does everything very gayly as opposed to someone whose actions are directly informed by them being gay. In his mind being flamboyant is just the best way to be happy and spread cheer which is his reason for living and he is a world-famous performer so even the world fully accepts him and admires his showmanship. It's shown to be a normal thing and not something to put undue focus on. They never directly point to it as being "different" in any way at all to how other people are behaving, it's treated as normal, which allows him to be an actual character and not a tropey token.

So he's a flamboyant character who acts flamboyantly, dresses flamboyantly, and whose in-game skill set revolves around his flamboyant sexuality.

How is it not revolving around his sexuality again?

Cause the game presents these acts as him being merely charismatic and chivalrous in his own way and not tied to sexuality.

so the key difference is that they never actually say he's gay

while games like dragon age confirm their character's sexuality

is that it?

Dalisclock:

And of course, any game that has an openly gay main character will trigger someone because reasons.

Or a gay side character.

Or a gay option in a game.

Hawki:

I'm not sure if that was the issue.

Wasn't the issue that if you made your character LGBT, you were being locked into the relationship, rather than the need to squirt out a baby? There's similar precedent for this kind of frustration - remember ME3, where if you pursued a relationship with Jacob in ME2, the sequel automatically invalidated it regardless of player choice?

First off, Dreiko has a very selective memory if he thinks the Microtransactions and such were fine. But, uhhhh...one guy defended it and didn't like this move...JERNALIZMZ!

But yes, your read is correct.

The problem with ACO is that they marketed this was your Alexios or Cassandra, that you chose how to play and who to romance. And then they took that choice away and settle you down with a specific people. Straight people who chose straight relationships in game were also bothered by this, because you can rebuff this specific character through the DLC, but you can't remain true to even a heterosexual partner in the game.

Thing is, because your character can pick up a number of heterosexual partners in the game, it's unnecessary in the first place. We know that the character procreated, because that's how the Animus works: through inherited magic DNA. Defining who the father/mother is doesn't just impact players who choose homosexual partnerships, it fundamentally undermines the idea of player choice within the game. This is a game with multiple endings that allows you to choose what happens to your family, but sorry, you must bone this one person even if you don't like them because...ponies.

undeadsuitor:

so the key difference is that they never actually say he's gay

while games like dragon age confirm their character's sexuality

is that it?

That would seem to be how most people's compaints are justified: they're fine with gay characters, as long as they're hypothetically gay.

Now, if we could just find a way to make hypothetical women....

Something Amyss:

undeadsuitor:

so the key difference is that they never actually say he's gay

while games like dragon age confirm their character's sexuality

is that it?

That would seem to be how most people's compaints are justified: they're fine with gay characters, as long as they're hypothetically gay.

Now, if we could just find a way to make hypothetical women....

It isn't even just hypothetical gay, it's more just "I prefer gay jokes I can laugh at over a gay guy who might hit on me for real"

Just straight up homophobia

undeadsuitor:

Dreiko:

undeadsuitor:

So he's a flamboyant character who acts flamboyantly, dresses flamboyantly, and whose in-game skill set revolves around his flamboyant sexuality.

How is it not revolving around his sexuality again?

Cause the game presents these acts as him being merely charismatic and chivalrous in his own way and not tied to sexuality.

so the key difference is that they never actually say he's gay

while games like dragon age confirm their character's sexuality

is that it?

It's less about confirming it and more about highlighting it. Basically, they treat flamboyant behavior as normal and not necessarily tied to anything outside of a person being expressed best by behaving in such a fashion in DQ11. There's also a part with his (very very traditional) knight dad being included in a dance number as well. He never really treats his son's behavior as though it's somehow wrong or again "different" he just treats it as a way of being that's normal and fun. The subject at hand here being about a game with gay themes as opposed to representation.

The thing with dragon age is the undue emphasis placed on it. Emphasis that makes sexuality seem as though it is of comparative significance to people's lives being lost and saving the world and so on. In DQ11 the world is literally on the brink of destruction so there's better things to focus on. I think I'm reminiscing of this example because of this one mage character in Inquisition whose personal sidequest was something about magical gay conversion therapy from his dad, and contrasting the two stories with the son and father and how they ended up is like night and day. I remember liking the mage dude initially cause he was witty and funny but he kinda fizzled out and his backstory/quest being such a mundane matter when other people had you hunting dragons or killing off assassin guilds and whatnot. It felt like a completely boring letdown. I probably was more disappointed by that due to having higher expectations of the character initially as well.

See, from superficial viewing I would have bought into this argument. There was one of the new Escapist contributors that I had only ever noticed (me being a sporadic reader) against articles talking about LGBT / mental health issues, for instance.

However, having taken the 5 minutes to actually look into it, she's published plenty of other articles on actual gaming which I have clearly just missed. And that makes it fine - so long as you do actual gaming journalism, the odd piece which is more personal / slightly broader in scope is completely acceptable, imo. Same with the more right-leaning outlets - if you ain't preaching, I can put up with the odd political opinion.

I mean, I kind of get the whole "they're indoctrinating our youth!" hysteria, but on the other hand, so is everything. If someone's that impressionable, god knows what they pick up watching regular TV.

undeadsuitor:

Something Amyss:

undeadsuitor:

so the key difference is that they never actually say he's gay

while games like dragon age confirm their character's sexuality

is that it?

That would seem to be how most people's compaints are justified: they're fine with gay characters, as long as they're hypothetically gay.

Now, if we could just find a way to make hypothetical women....

It isn't even just hypothetical gay, it's more just "I prefer gay jokes I can laugh at over a gay guy who might hit on me for real"

Just straight up homophobia

Why can't it be gay-up homophobia? Where is the LGBT inclusion in homophobia?

But yes, you're right. It really does rad more like "lol he so gay" than even hypothetical gay characters.

I mean, now we're down to how it's "highluighting" his gayness even though it doesn't do that.

You know, because they'd have to acknowledge it to highlight it and I'm yet to see anything in Saylvando's plot that makes him gay. Just innuendo and stereotypes.

Dreiko:

undeadsuitor:

Dreiko:

Cause the game presents these acts as him being merely charismatic and chivalrous in his own way and not tied to sexuality.

so the key difference is that they never actually say he's gay

while games like dragon age confirm their character's sexuality

is that it?

It's less about confirming it and more about highlighting it. Basically, they treat flamboyant behavior as normal and not necessarily tied to anything outside of a person being expressed best by behaving in such a fashion in DQ11. There's also a part with his (very very traditional) knight dad being included in a dance number as well. He never really treats his son's behavior as though it's somehow wrong or again "different" he just treats it as a way of being that's normal and fun. The subject at hand here being about a game with gay themes as opposed to representation.

The thing with dragon age is the undue emphasis placed on it. Emphasis that makes sexuality seem as though it is of comparative significance to people's lives being lost and saving the world and so on. In DQ11 the world is literally on the brink of destruction so there's better things to focus on. I think I'm reminiscing of this example because of this one mage character in Inquisition whose personal sidequest was something about magical gay conversion therapy from his dad, and contrasting the two stories with the son and father and how they ended up is like night and day. I remember liking the mage dude initially cause he was witty and funny but he kinda fizzled out and his backstory/quest being such a mundane matter when other people had you hunting dragons or killing off assassin guilds and whatnot. It felt like a completely boring letdown. I probably was more disappointed by that due to having higher expectations of the character initially as well.

While I understand the need for positive representation that doesn't focus on suffering; it might behoove you to choose an example of a character that:

Is actually gay

Isn't a joke stereotype designed for the amusement of straight people

Catnip1024:
See, from superficial viewing I would have bought into this argument. There was one of the new Escapist contributors that I had only ever noticed (me being a sporadic reader) against articles talking about LGBT / mental health issues, for instance.

However, having taken the 5 minutes to actually look into it, she's published plenty of other articles on actual gaming which I have clearly just missed. And that makes it fine - so long as you do actual gaming journalism, the odd piece which is more personal / slightly broader in scope is completely acceptable, imo. Same with the more right-leaning outlets - if you ain't preaching, I can put up with the odd political opinion.

I mean, I kind of get the whole "they're indoctrinating our youth!" hysteria, but on the other hand, so is everything. If someone's that impressionable, god knows what they pick up watching regular TV.

If you're thinking of the same contributor I am, the irony is that her fanbase turned on her really fast for saying that cosplay options sucked for curvy women. Oh my god, did she turn into an "SJW" overnight, and it killed me. The insults and histrionics were hi-lar-ious.

So that perception seems to work both ways.

Come to think of it. Literally every other gay person not named dorian in dragon age inquisition fits dreikos requirements

undeadsuitor:

While I understand the need for positive representation that doesn't focus on suffering; it might behoove you to choose an example of a character that:

Is actually gay

Isn't a joke stereotype designed for the amusement of straight people

The irony of the positive representation is that if you don't make the story about being gay or bi or trans or whatever else, there are complaints that the character is unnecessary. I think a lot of LGBT people would like to have more positive examples of inclusion, because we're not the ones who generally complain about a gay character just being gay.

It does help when they're actually, you know, gay, as you're saying, though.

I really like Sarah Lance on Legends of Tomorrow. I mean, she does have a tragic backstory, but her sexuality isn't a part of that. In the series, she's flirted with and has sexual contact with men and women and it's done without much fanfare of controversy. She's a bisexual character, but she's not shackled to her sexuality in the way many characters are.

To use nother Arrowverse example, because I don't watch a lot of contemporary TV and can't think of a gaming example: Supergirl introduced Nia Nall, a transgender character, this season. When she was first introduced, people (and weirdly, not trans people) were complaining about how they just put an LGBT character in the show for te sake of having one and that they shouldn't have bothered if it wasn't going to be relevant to the story.

This last week, they wove her being trans not only intop the story but into the metanarrative of this season, and a lot of the same people were outraged that they did that, too.

A lot of times, if you're a minority in media, you're screwed no matter which way you go.

I think the Arrowverse generally does this pretty well and not just with LGBT characters. Legends has featured a Muslim character who is explicitly Muslim, but doesn't make her whole life about being Muslim. There are a bunch of explicitly Jewish characters on the shows. but the important thing about all of this is they actually are gay/bi/Jewisdh/Muslim/Trans/anone else I might have missed.

Unlike Sylvando.

Anyway, this post wasn't so much directed at you as it was your reply is what made me think of it. I didn't so much pick up ": positive representation" from Dreiko's post.

I think we'd all like some more positive inclusion. I know I would.

Something Amyss:

Catnip1024:
See, from superficial viewing I would have bought into this argument. There was one of the new Escapist contributors that I had only ever noticed (me being a sporadic reader) against articles talking about LGBT / mental health issues, for instance.

However, having taken the 5 minutes to actually look into it, she's published plenty of other articles on actual gaming which I have clearly just missed. And that makes it fine - so long as you do actual gaming journalism, the odd piece which is more personal / slightly broader in scope is completely acceptable, imo. Same with the more right-leaning outlets - if you ain't preaching, I can put up with the odd political opinion.

I mean, I kind of get the whole "they're indoctrinating our youth!" hysteria, but on the other hand, so is everything. If someone's that impressionable, god knows what they pick up watching regular TV.

If you're thinking of the same contributor I am, the irony is that her fanbase turned on her really fast for saying that cosplay options sucked for curvy women. Oh my god, did she turn into an "SJW" overnight, and it killed me. The insults and histrionics were hi-lar-ious.

So that perception seems to work both ways.

This is kinda irrelevant but my rule for cosplay (that I personally adhere to) is that you do need to look reasonably akin to a character in order for your cosplay to befit them and be charming as opposed to embarrassing so I can see where someone would be coming from with regards to fat people cosplaying. I guess you can try Sonico or something, she's pretty chubby in some renditions. Not coming at this from the perspective of telling people what to cosplay as as much as from the perspective of simply liking my fav chars and not wanting them represented in an uncharitable way that makes people unintentionally cringe and go "what were they thinking...".

Something Amyss:
snip

It's certainly a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. With a lot of -phobic people being savvy enough to learn inclusive language to hide their hate as "concern".

And if supergirl has a trans character I feel like I should start rewatching that. Are they played by a trans actress?

Dreiko:
so I can see where someone would be coming from with regards to fat people cosplaying.

She wasn't fat, though. she had big breasts that wouldn't fit into the costumes of many of her favourite characters (which was her initial complaint), and that was the thing. And specifically, people called her tings like fat, but it was Liana Kerzner (had to look up her name from old Comics and Cosplay features) and if she's fat, I don't know what skinny is.

undeadsuitor:

Something Amyss:
snip

It's certainly a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. With a lot of -phobic people being savvy enough to learn inclusive language to hide their hate as "concern".

And if supergirl has a trans character I feel like I should start rewatching that. Are they played by a trans actress?

Nia's played by trans advocate Nicole Maines.

There's a touchy element to handling LGBT issues (and others, I imagine) in media for me, in part because I'd rather never see another LGBT person mistreated if possible, but it's also hard to completely divorce us from issues we might face. And I get why there are people who get their backs up over such a scenario, because media informs people more than facts do sometimes and it can lead to this message that life is suddenly peachy.

Dreiko:

Hawki:

I'm not sure if that was the issue.

Wasn't the issue that if you made your character LGBT, you were being locked into the relationship, rather than the need to squirt out a baby? There's similar precedent for this kind of frustration - remember ME3, where if you pursued a relationship with Jacob in ME2, the sequel automatically invalidated it regardless of player choice?

That doesn't work in the historic context of the Peloponesian war, since everyone was free to be bisexual basically. Fundamentally, the notion of making a purely gay character is at fault and people were caught up in their own notions that they were projecting onto the game, while the game itself just makes you able to be bisexual, as showcased by your hero having a baby in the dlc story.

This is a case where I'd not even fault the game for not explaining it strictly enough that you're only ever bisexual at most (even if you only have same sex relationships) since you ought to be cognizant of the historic context of the era to just presume this going on in the game

...I'm sorry, the fuck? Talking about the historical context of the era and...how full homosexual people were like unicorns and there were only bi people or something? What?

Also, Assassin's Creed giving a shit about historical context. PFFFFFFFFFFT! Yes, please, let's talk about historical context in the game where magical alien technology has apparently been present throughout all of history.

Something Amyss:

Nia's played by trans advocate Nicole Maines.

Hooo damn talking about knocking a casting choice out of the park. I couldn't think of a better choice.

I hope she sticks around long enough to become a regular.

Or better yet, transfers over to Legends of Tomorrow. A better show for better characters.

There's a touchy element to handling LGBT issues (and others, I imagine) in media for me, in part because I'd rather never see another LGBT person mistreated if possible, but it's also hard to completely divorce us from issues we might face. And I get why there are people who get their backs up over such a scenario, because media informs people more than facts do sometimes and it can lead to this message that life is suddenly peachy.

Absolutely. Ya gotta have balance. Personally I think dragon age (just going with it since it's brought up the most here) strikes a good balance. And even dorian's backstory has more layers to it than dreiko wants to admit.

Something Amyss:
If you're thinking of the same contributor I am, the irony is that her fanbase turned on her really fast for saying that cosplay options sucked for curvy women. Oh my god, did she turn into an "SJW" overnight, and it killed me. The insults and histrionics were hi-lar-ious.

So that perception seems to work both ways.

Yeah, I think the whole thing is driven by overly touchy people on both sides (which probably drives towards the perceived polarisation). And superficial judgements made without actually thinking about stuff.

Hawki:

Addendum_Forthcoming:
Wait, what 'super left in gaming'? Wait a minute, LGBTQ themes = 'super left' on its own? If that legitimately bothers you, I doubt I can find a small enough violin.

We've had this conversation before, but is there a single game that has ever dealt in LGBTQ themes (not representation, themes)?

Dreiko:

The recent Assassin's Creed Odyssey comes to mind, no, mictortransactions for experience point boost are toooootaly fine, gamers complaining about them are entitled but heterosexual reproduction...now that is going too far I say! Change your art to fit my politics. Change your canon story cause I want your char that you came up with that is an expression of your soul to be gayer! (ignoring the fact that ancient Greeks would still have children while simultaneously engaging in homosexuality, btw)

I can't have that idiocy and if it means allying with right wing gamers I'm fully willing to do that since I value gaming above winning political arguments.

I'm not sure if that was the issue.

Wasn't the issue that if you made your character LGBT, you were being locked into the relationship, rather than the need to squirt out a baby? There's similar precedent for this kind of frustration - remember ME3, where if you pursued a relationship with Jacob in ME2, the sequel automatically invalidated it regardless of player choice?

God that pissed me off. I mean my Fem!Shep is Liara!mancer for life so I never went down that path with Jacob but he always seemed like a stand up guy so to go behind Shepard's back like that? Dude, not fucking cool. And that it didn't end with Garus and Tali and Joker spacing him was just insult to injury.

Something Amyss:

Dreiko:
so I can see where someone would be coming from with regards to fat people cosplaying.

She wasn't fat, though. she had big breasts that wouldn't fit into the costumes of many of her favourite characters (which was her initial complaint), and that was the thing. And specifically, people called her tings like fat, but it was Liana Kerzner (had to look up her name from old Comics and Cosplay features) and if she's fat, I don't know what skinny is.

*Googles Liana Kerzner* Fat? They were calling her fat? Fuck me running with bells on some people are just stupid.

Paragon Fury:
So something has been bothering me for a bit about gaming media, and I feel with the recent changes and some of the articles here at the new Escapist it made it more concerning;

Why, exactly, does it seem like pretty much all major gaming news outlets are either extremely left-wing or or extremely right wing?

(Trending towards, at least in my opinion, the left wing but there are absolutely right wing equivalents out there.)

It feels like basically every major site out there is either is hardcore trying to tow the SJW/PC line and make everything about LGBTQ or feminism or the patriarchy or competing in the Victimization Grand Prix - or conversely secretly or openly trying to convince people to become Neo-Nazis and support white nationalism, bigotry, racism and generally other unscrupulous endeavors.

I think off the top of my head I came name five sources that don't fall into this trap either way - YongYea, SkillUp, LevelCap Gaming, Layman Gaming (of which SkillUp is a part) and HeelvsBabyFace. One of those is just an ex-WoW streamer/Youtuber who moved into mocking devs for their stupidity instead of gaming because of Blizzard basically murdering WoW slowly over the last few years, and another is just the two guys taking the piss out of everybody in gaming for the stupid things they do, leaving only three real sources for news/reviews.

How did gaming media become this deeply entrenched in this kind of political battle? Was there a memo I missed? Didn't we all kind of agree that we wanted less of this kind of thing surrounding our games?

EDIT: This is excluding sources that are specifically dedicated to ONE game or ONE kind of game and thus would likely be smaller, less noticed or simply not relevant to the larger gaming media discussion EX: Maximillian Dude.

Because people have devolved the making of decisions into just agreeing with everything on one side and disagreeing with everything on the other. Such is the problem with party politics, things stop being about deciding what is the right thing to do and instead turn into "Our side is doing this therefore it is right."

Silentpony:
Money. Its only ever about money. Extremisim on either side gets clicks.

Headlines like: Lara Croft is a relic of the Patriarchy and should be a gay trans African Man
gets clicks, which equal ad revenue.

Likewise: Gearbox bends over for soy-boy cucks by patching in gay lines for male characters
gets clicks, which equal ad revenue.

Always remember, journalists aren't doing this for the love of writing, they're doing it to earn a profit. Its their job not to get you to read, but to click.

I've been listening to some game developer interviews and there was one where a guy made a game that essentially predicted a war but was shelved for a while and then released after that war started. The interviewer started with asking what it felt like to make money off of the lives of American soldiers and when the guy said he made the game before the war even started they turned off the camera and the interviewer said he had to "Turn him from a scumbag into a prophet" and restarted the interview on the opposite tone.

erttheking:

...I'm sorry, the fuck? Talking about the historical context of the era and...how full homosexual people were like unicorns and there were only bi people or something? What?

Also, Assassin's Creed giving a shit about historical context. PFFFFFFFFFFT! Yes, please, let's talk about historical context in the game where magical alien technology has apparently been present throughout all of history.

AC has a wierd relationship with historical context and realism. In some ways, they'll fucking nail the details(apparently all the sea shanties were based on real ones, even if not from that era). But then you'll get wierd shit like giant stone freestanding statues that the laws of physics would take issue with, landmarks that didn't exist until decades later, fictional white whales being huntable, tombs full of treasure that would have been long since stripped by thieves(looking at you Origins Pyramids) and Sparta having a Navy worth speaking of/Athens having an Army worth a damn.

That's without adding in all the ISU stuff which mostly seems to be an excuse for magic because it sure as hell isn't serving any plot purpose right now.

Straight people bitching about having to deal with LGBT characters as if LGBT people don't have to constantly deal with a never ending parade of straight characters.

99% of fiction has hetero romance, and a lot of it is not necessary at all. Oh, what a surprise, the main guy and the main girl are the last survivors and are gonna bone, like I haven't seen THAT a billion times before.

The ending of second Legacy of the First Blade episode may have been poorly written but it did make sense to me. Part of the main story is about keeping their bloodline going. Myrrine for example has sex at least once with another guy while married to Nikolaos, in order to produce the younger of the siblings, so Kassandra or Alexios also wanting to keep the bloodline going worked in the context of the story...for me at least.

This argument has always confused me.

"Why do you have to make this character gay/a minority/a woman? I mean, if you strip that away from them, they are just a character who is doing something in the world! So why is it important that they are gay/a minority/a woman?!"

... Because in real life, we're all just people doing something. The engineer who designed your car might be gay, white, latin, japanese, female, Trans or whatever. The argument is structurally flawed. EVERY aspect of a character in a game is just window dressing. It turns out we don't want to see moving code shooting people, so we gave it a model.

But then we found it boring that the model is just this thing, so we have to have some kind of connection to it. So here comes story.

Then we found out that it's weird that just this one person in the world had some sort of background, so the people or things he interacts with has to have a story as well.

And there are so many stories in life that yup, one of them will have a homosexual tint. Or one would be born with ovaries. Or one was born in the wrong body. Or even still, has a different melanin count.

And don't get me started about people who complain that there are minorities in space. If they are human, they will have different melanin counts base on the climate and geography of the planet they are on. There's no special radiation in Africa that makes black people... other than solar. Methinks that radiation will find analogs in limitless space.

ObsidianJones:
This argument has always confused me.

"Why do you have to make this character gay/a minority/a woman? I mean, if you strip that away from them, they are just a character who is doing something in the world! So why is it important that they are gay/a minority/a woman?!"

... Because in real life, we're all just people doing something. The engineer who designed your car might be gay, white, latin, japanese, female, Trans or whatever. The argument is structurally flawed. EVERY aspect of a character in a game is just window dressing. It turns out we don't want to see moving code shooting people, so we gave it a model.

But then we found it boring that the model is just this thing, so we have to have some kind of connection to it. So here comes story.

Then we found out that it's weird that just this one person in the world had some sort of background, so the people or things he interacts with has to have a story as well.

And there are so many stories in life that yup, one of them will have a homosexual tint. Or one would be born with ovaries. Or one was born in the wrong body. Or even still, has a different melanin count.

And don't get me started about people who complain that there are minorities in space. If they are human, they will have different melanin counts base on the climate and geography of the planet they are on. There's no special radiation in Africa that makes black people... other than solar. Methinks that radiation will find analogs in limitless space.

Something to think about in regards to homosexual depictions is that a lot of ones I've seen are token characters or lack any real heart to them. The only two games I've played that had homosexial characters that werent just defined by their sexuality are Undertale and Labyrinth of Refrain. I think the argument you talk about rose up because people wanted representation of homosexuality so much that they would take even weak or bad examples and promote them because they were seen as a step in the right direction even if not executed well. This might be so but in the short term it adds more fuel to the fire of those that object to it until the good examples can start being made.

votemarvel:
The ending of second Legacy of the First Blade episode may have been poorly written but it did make sense to me. Part of the main story is about keeping their bloodline going. Myrrine for example has sex at least once with another guy while married to Nikolaos, in order to produce the younger of the siblings, so Kassandra or Alexios also wanting to keep the bloodline going worked in the context of the story...for me at least.

Certainly there is merit for the intent vs. execution argument. As the director said: "the clarity and motivation for this decision (the main character forced into a romantic heterosexual relationship to preserve their lineage in light of the sacrifices made by their grandfather and mother) was poorly executed". Still, they would had been criticized for forcing the main character out of a same-sex relationship. I don't know how they could had avoided to get caught in a though spot with such storyline.

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here