ok, i have to rant somewhere, so here it is...

ok, this is personal, but i have to ventilate this somewhere, and i have no other place than here. Good if this start a discution, but just writing it make me feel better.

So i quit smoking friday. it been about 60 hours since my last cigarette. it's not my first rodeo. i smoked for 15 years or so, then quit for 2 years, then smoked for two years and quit again but start again a year after. so it been about three years since the last time i quit.

the gas station where i buy my cigarettes is closing at 11 pm, i start to write this at 10:30pm of so, so if i can pass 11pm, it will be very difficult physically to get cigarettes, unless i drive like 20 minutes to get to the next town to get some.

the thing is that nobody know except for my wife. i never smoke in front of my kids, i never smoke in my house, only outside, i never smoke at my job. my family dont know i started smoking again, my friends dont know either. and if i tell my wife that i quit, she will be super happy, and ask me about it 3 times per day. but without realising that it put pressure on me. so i didnt told her yet. i want to wait a couple of week.

so i am all alone in this. usually i smoke 3 cigarettes after my wife goes to bed, and i smoke 3 cigarette before going to bed. so in the weekends, i smoke about 6 cigarettes per day. on week days i usually smoke 3 cigarettes before going to work, 3 at the start of my lunch, and 3 after, plus the 6 i smoke at night like on the weekends.

i've been coughing a lot today. i know i have a small cold, but i think it might be because i didnt smoked this weekend, but it's a bit quick for that to happen. i have small panick attacks. i keep telling me that i could wait one more week before quiting, but on the other hand, what good one more week will give me ?

it's past 11 pm now, so i will be fine for the night, but tomorrow will be another day...

Well, I wish you strength in this, and I hope getting this out helps atleast a little.

Not had that experience myself, but they say every cigarette you don't smoke is helping you, every time you try to quit is practice for next time.

I'm sort of lucky in that I was always a social smoker. I get strong cravings about three or four drinks in but under normal circumstances, I couldn't care less. I also smoked a pipe (yeah yeah) and it is slightly better for you, though the older I get, the more I feel it the next day. And I haven't been drinking much these days anyway. I kind of grew bored of getting smashed lately.

These days I've seen these like...cigarette vapes? Not a regular flavoured vape with nicotine but an actual mini thing you buy cig flavoured like, filters for? I've never tried them but they seem like a popular option. Dunno if they've arrived in Canada yet.

Anyway, good luck to you. As Homer once said "Good for you son. Giving up smoking is one of the hardest thing you'll ever have to do. Have a dollar."

Get into a Sauna or Steam Room. Sweat it out, literally. Addiction is not mental, its chemical, meaning its fat, its sweat, cells and turn-over. 1 hour a day at say 90-100 degrees, you can literally sweat out addiction in 3-4 days. It'll suck. Its jump-starting your recovery. But it happens and it can work.

And I mean cheap ass gyms, for $20 a month, have steam rooms daily. It takes 2 weeks to form a habit, 2 weeks to break a cycle, and 3 days to break a chemical addiction.

I will have to disagree with advice to use vaping as an option, as that is just another bad idea and some of those things now have more nicotine than cigarettes. Taking an allergy pill and wearing the patch is a better alternative if it gets too bad instead of faltering. You often need xyzal or zyrtec to help prevent a skin reaction to the patch, but is well worth it if it helps you through. The way my friend used it was she would wait longer and longer to change the patch until she just didn't need it anymore.

I would primarily focus on alternatives managing anxiety and panic attacks as it seems you are using smoking a crutch. You need to have a plan that works for you that you can do when you start to feel anxious.

Some resources that may help:
https://www.anxietycanada.com/adults/my-anxiety-plan-panic-disorder
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/290177.php
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/16-ways-relieve-stress-anxiety
https://www.webmd.com/balance/guide/blissing-out-10-relaxation-techniques-reduce-stress-spot

Focusing on controlling episodes, reducing stress and having a plan of action when it gets bad is the best defense you can have to help you keep on track. Good luck!

EDIT: My friend just suggested you should view cigarettes as a parasitic mind controlling alien that is trying to take over your body and you are fighting to maintain control and you must win at all costs. Every time you give in to the alien invader and smoke, you are feeding it and making it stronger. Viewing cigarettes as negatively as possible helps you win the cravings war until cravings subside.

I'm a reformed smoker myself. Even if you make a mistake, try again. Immediately. You got this

Good luck. I just started again a week ago. I got myself a vape to at least cut down on what I smoke, which seems to help, although not completely. I'm trying to work out if nicotine free liquid actually helps. seems to a bit, but not as much as nicotine vape.

Silentpony:
Addiction is not mental, its chemical

It is both. The exact relation between the two differ between substances, but addictions are not as easily explained as "going clean" of the chemicals, because if that was the case no one would ever re-lapse into addiction. In fact, the mental or psychological addiction is often the worst, irregardless of substance, because it will be with you far longer and pose a far more persistent threat of re-lapse. The physical addiction to nicotine is over in 3 days to a week (over once abstinence ends, basically), the mental addiction can persist for months or years.

Source: Works with addicts and controlled detox treatments.

still feel sick and lightheaded this morning. usually, we get uo around 6 am, i do the lunch for kids, my wife, and my lunch. she manage to get the kids dressed up, then, we pack everything in the car, around 7 am we go to the school to drop my 6 years old daughter, then i drop my wife to her job, i drop my 4 years old daughter to her daycare, then i go to work. this morning at the school we realised that we didnt had my daughter lunchbox. so we got back home. i was very stressed and angry.
-"how come the lunchbox isnt there, i pack her lunch, why didnt you put the lunch box in the car ?"
to which my wife tried to reply " i didnt saw it, and you didnt gave it to me"
- "but you didnt check, now it's my fault that we late, but you didnt check either..."

yeah, i'm kind of a bitch when i'm angry. this could had escalated, but after we went back for the lunchbox and drive back to school, i realised that i've left my cell phone back home. i burst into tears and turn back home again. when we got back into the car, i took a couple of deep breath and said : "ok, we cool now ? we have everything ? everything is checked ?" and i dont know, i guess that suddently i realised how wrong my day was starting, i just start laughing at the situation. which dropped the tension. now i'm at work, and i didnt smoked before going to work.

Lil devils x:
I will have to disagree with advice to use vaping as an option, as that is just another bad idea and some of those things now have more nicotine than cigarettes. Taking an allergy pill and wearing the patch is a better alternative if it gets too bad instead of faltering. You often need xyzal or zyrtec to help prevent a skin reaction to the patch, but is well worth it if it helps you through. The way my friend used it was she would wait longer and longer to change the patch until she just didn't need it anymore.

Focusing on controlling episodes, reducing stress and having a plan of action when it gets bad is the best defense you can have to help you keep on track. Good luck!

EDIT: My friend just suggested you should view cigarettes as a parasitic mind controlling alien that is trying to take over your body and you are fighting to maintain control and you must win at all costs. Every time you give in to the alien invader and smoke, you are feeding it and making it stronger. Viewing cigarettes as negatively as possible helps you win the cravings war until cravings subside.

i'm not very interrested in vapping, it feel to me that you dont really stop smoking, you just change you cigarette for something else, but you still addicted to nicotine.

i dont really like patches either. i have a nicotine gum box hidden in my desk, but i havent touched them yet.

i really dont see cigarette as a good thing. each time i buy a pack, i always tell myself : see, why are you doing this, you dont need this, it bring you no good...

cathou:
ok, this is personal, but i have to ventilate this somewhere, and i have no other place than here. Good if this start a discution, but just writing it make me feel better.

So i quit smoking friday. it been about 60 hours since my last cigarette. it's not my first rodeo. i smoked for 15 years or so, then quit for 2 years, then smoked for two years and quit again but start again a year after. so it been about three years since the last time i quit.

the gas station where i buy my cigarettes is closing at 11 pm, i start to write this at 10:30pm of so, so if i can pass 11pm, it will be very difficult physically to get cigarettes, unless i drive like 20 minutes to get to the next town to get some.

the thing is that nobody know except for my wife. i never smoke in front of my kids, i never smoke in my house, only outside, i never smoke at my job. my family dont know i started smoking again, my friends dont know either. and if i tell my wife that i quit, she will be super happy, and ask me about it 3 times per day. but without realising that it put pressure on me. so i didnt told her yet. i want to wait a couple of week.

so i am all alone in this. usually i smoke 3 cigarettes after my wife goes to bed, and i smoke 3 cigarette before going to bed. so in the weekends, i smoke about 6 cigarettes per day. on week days i usually smoke 3 cigarettes before going to work, 3 at the start of my lunch, and 3 after, plus the 6 i smoke at night like on the weekends.

i've been coughing a lot today. i know i have a small cold, but i think it might be because i didnt smoked this weekend, but it's a bit quick for that to happen. i have small panick attacks. i keep telling me that i could wait one more week before quiting, but on the other hand, what good one more week will give me ?

it's past 11 pm now, so i will be fine for the night, but tomorrow will be another day...

I could have sworn that you mentioned in the Wild West that you stopped smoking or something.

One thing I've read helps at least a bit is to remind yourself that it's good to be free of cigarettes, and that smoking again would make your life worse, not better. The problem with trying to quit using will-power is that nobody's got infinite willpower, and it makes it seem as if cigarettes are a pleasure that it's hard to go without. Do it the opposite way--tell yourself that it's great to be smoke-free.

Marik2:

I could have sworn that you mentioned in the Wild West that you stopped smoking or something.

it's possible, like i said, not my first rodeo. i've stop multiple time and failed miserably each time.

i'm doing actually pretty fine i think. i'm in the phase where you cough brown and black stuff which should last a week or so. i went to the gas station tonight for getting candies. because right now i crave for sweets more than i crave for cigarettes. the girl there asked me if i need my usual pack of cigarette, and i manage to resist and said, no, i stopped. i'm kind of proud actually.

i was thinking of when i smoked my first cigarette way back in... 1994, i was 14 years old. i had this image and reputation to be the geeky and nerdy girl, so i started smoking to have something in common with the cool kids, to be closer to them, and maybe be one of the cool kids too... but even if a gain some new "friends" and gain some popularity because of them, at this went down the drain when i was outted as a lesbian a year later. so i guess after all it wasnt worth it...

now that i think about it, it seems very stupid today, but also remember that i was living in a world where there was no cell phones, no internet, where in college we could actually smoke inside the halls...

My sincerest wishes with you on this one. I got rid of a 19 year habit four years ago now, and while I'm really happy I've done it now, the first six months were a total pain in the ass. My advice? Think, really think, about something you want more than smoking. See, if you finish a crappy day at work, and your 'I want to quit' desire is running at a 7/10 but your 'I really need a f*cking cig' desire is running at a stronger 9/10, you'll probably end up caving (unless you have cast-iron willpower). And that's perfectly normal. But if you can keep in mind something you want *more* than the desire for that cig, the need for a cig will never outstrip the need to *not* have a cig, and the whole thing gets much easier.

But keep it up. You got this.

Can't really add anything more than other helpful humans have already put here. Addiction and addictive personality is like a constant war with oneself. Keeping the mind distracted, busy and if possible entertained is one way of pushing those clawing thoughts away even just a little. Explore different ideas of stress relief if possible, so the subconscious doesn't believe there's only one effective release when things get problematic. I can imagine being always responsible for kids can push stress levels much higher also. The bastard mini-human lumps never stop! Perhaps that is equal blessings and curse however.

Annnnd, now embedded videos are working, an old track for giving up those sneaky blighters (cigarettes, not kids) should be included for additional melodic support...

Gethsemani:

Silentpony:
Addiction is not mental, its chemical

It is both. The exact relation between the two differ between substances, but addictions are not as easily explained as "going clean" of the chemicals, because if that was the case no one would ever re-lapse into addiction. In fact, the mental or psychological addiction is often the worst, irregardless of substance, because it will be with you far longer and pose a far more persistent threat of re-lapse. The physical addiction to nicotine is over in 3 days to a week (over once abstinence ends, basically), the mental addiction can persist for months or years.

Source: Works with addicts and controlled detox treatments.

What I meant is that if you have the cold sweats, your blood itches, you're in withdrawal rather than psychological recovery, sweating out in a steam room helps.
The psychological aspect of an addictive personality needs to be addressed through therapy and life-style changes for sure, but the initial break of the chemical addiction can be helped by intense sweating sessions.
Although I think it was I want to say cocaine, but it could have been ecstasy that bonds very well to fat cells and its not unheard of for the body to burn those fat sells and trigger a high in someone weeks clean.

well, i guess at some point this week i will have to tell my wife, because right now i have huge mood swings, and apparently it's very apparent.

just before i start typing this, i had a very strong craving. i didnt had one for all day long, but for 5 minutes, i had this huge need for a cigarette. i realised that in my desk there's a 2 years old pack of malboro. i almost smoked it. i have to get rid of that tomorrow.

it was quite a strong craving, seriously, i almost cried. but it lasted less than 10 minutes. i'm ok now. i just hope it was the last big one...

Silentpony:

Although I think it was I want to say cocaine, but it could have been ecstasy that bonds very well to fat cells and its not unheard of for the body to burn those fat sells and trigger a high in someone weeks clean.

It is Cannabis Hasch you are thinking of, which will persist in the body for something like 2-3 weeks and can cause recurring dissociative episodes, paranoia and anxiety during that time. It is not exactly a high, because the concentration in the blood will not be high enough, but from what I've seen it is pretty unpleasant.

Lil devils x:
I will have to disagree with advice to use vaping as an option, as that is just another bad idea and some of those things now have more nicotine than cigarettes...

I was a smoker for a decade, funny enough originally picked up the habit during a really bad allergy season, because I discovered it was the only thing that actually helped my symptoms. Three to four years ago, I started vaping, and while I have a cigarette occasionally, maybe a pack a year in total, I've mostly quit and have reached the point I largely find the taste and smell of cigarettes largely off-putting.

Yes, a lot of liquids do have more nicotine than cigarettes. Depending on brand, filtering, and flavor, most cigarettes sit around the equivalent of a 6-12mg/ml juice, and most juices in my experience go up to 24mg/ml. But, on the other hand, nicotine-less and -light juice does exist. Personally, I vape 3mg/ml.

Now, here's the thing. Smoking is a habit first, addiction second. Nicotine is an addictive drug, sure, but not that addictive, at least in the sense chemical withdrawal isn't terribly bad and short-lived. Habituation to the physical act of smoking and the ritual involved is the killer. Compounding that, is positive association between the chemical effects of nicotine, the relaxation of smoke breaks, and the social context of smoking. In short, smokers turn themselves into Pavlov's dogs as a matter of course.

This is why cold turkey and "cessation aids" like NRT (patches, gum, nasal sprays) and prescription pharmaceuticals rarely work. They don't break the habituation, and more often than not smokers relapse when they repeatedly put themselves in situations where they've conditioned themselves to smoke. By the by, this is actually why many smokers gain weight when trying to quit; excess eating replicates the smoking "ritual", and since eating triggers dopamine release it replicates the chemical effect of nicotine in the nervous system.

That's why vaping works to transition off tobacco products. It replicates the "ritual" of smoking, and can be performed in any scenario in which one might otherwise be tempted to smoke. And, most appealingly, one can carry out the ritual absent nicotine should they vape 0% juice. From there, it's simply a matter of weaning oneself from the habit.

This is why recovering alcoholics and other addicts are told to change their life style to avoid circumstances in which they're habituated, or conditioned, to drink. We don't do that with smokers; instead, we throw them headlong into each and every life circumstance in which they'd be tempted to smoke, give them "cessation" aids that only address the chemical aspect by prolonging or delaying withdrawal no other recourse, yet endlessly propagandize the evils of the chemicals involved without engendering a deeper understanding of what really happens inside smokers' minds. We do our hardest as a society to keep them "smokers", but throwing money at big pharma instead of big tobacco.

Is it any wonder the pharmaceutical industry is throwing money around like it's going out of style to lock down the vaping industry?

Well good for you, it's a nasty habit that people really shouldn't get into...

My dad managed to stop smoking a while back, and he used acupuncture to help break the habit. Maybe you could try that?

Eacaraxe:

Lil devils x:
I will have to disagree with advice to use vaping as an option, as that is just another bad idea and some of those things now have more nicotine than cigarettes...

I was a smoker for a decade, funny enough originally picked up the habit during a really bad allergy season, because I discovered it was the only thing that actually helped my symptoms. Three to four years ago, I started vaping, and while I have a cigarette occasionally, maybe a pack a year in total, I've mostly quit and have reached the point I largely find the taste and smell of cigarettes largely off-putting.

Yes, a lot of liquids do have more nicotine than cigarettes. Depending on brand, filtering, and flavor, most cigarettes sit around the equivalent of a 6-12mg/ml juice, and most juices in my experience go up to 24mg/ml. But, on the other hand, nicotine-less and -light juice does exist. Personally, I vape 3mg/ml.

Now, here's the thing. Smoking is a habit first, addiction second. Nicotine is an addictive drug, sure, but not that addictive, at least in the sense chemical withdrawal isn't terribly bad and short-lived. Habituation to the physical act of smoking and the ritual involved is the killer. Compounding that, is positive association between the chemical effects of nicotine, the relaxation of smoke breaks, and the social context of smoking. In short, smokers turn themselves into Pavlov's dogs as a matter of course.

This is why cold turkey and "cessation aids" like NRT (patches, gum, nasal sprays) and prescription pharmaceuticals rarely work. They don't break the habituation, and more often than not smokers relapse when they repeatedly put themselves in situations where they've conditioned themselves to smoke. By the by, this is actually why many smokers gain weight when trying to quit; excess eating replicates the smoking "ritual", and since eating triggers dopamine release it replicates the chemical effect of nicotine in the nervous system.

That's why vaping works to transition off tobacco products. It replicates the "ritual" of smoking, and can be performed in any scenario in which one might otherwise be tempted to smoke. And, most appealingly, one can carry out the ritual absent nicotine should they vape 0% juice. From there, it's simply a matter of weaning oneself from the habit.

This is why recovering alcoholics and other addicts are told to change their life style to avoid circumstances in which they're habituated, or conditioned, to drink. We don't do that with smokers; instead, we throw them headlong into each and every life circumstance in which they'd be tempted to smoke, give them "cessation" aids that only address the chemical aspect by prolonging or delaying withdrawal no other recourse, yet endlessly propagandize the evils of the chemicals involved without engendering a deeper understanding of what really happens inside smokers' minds. We do our hardest as a society to keep them "smokers", but throwing money at big pharma instead of big tobacco.

Is it any wonder the pharmaceutical industry is throwing money around like it's going out of style to lock down the vaping industry?

Actually, in the studies we currently have, Vaping has been shown to not help with quitting smoking and is just as addictive as smoking and does not ween you from nicotine addiction. Yes, Smoking is still worse, but that is like arguing about whether it is worse to get hit by a car or a bus when both are pretty awful.

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-care-news/articles/2018-07-10/study-vaping-doesnt-help-smokers-quit-cigarettes

https://azdailysun.com/lifestyles/health-med-fit/why-vaping-doesn-t-help-smokers-quit/article_32119159-203d-5bb5-8bec-60b3412645ee.html

The most successful OTC method to quit smoking we have is a combination of replacement therapies that include the patch. Using the patch in addition to another method in the early stages has been shown to be the most effective:

http://tobacco-cessation.org/whatworkstoquit/medications.html
specifically:
http://tobacco-cessation.org/whatworkstoquit/medications.html

Some even still smoke in the beginning while wearing the patch,( even though the box tells you not to) just much less since they are retraining their pleasure association with cigarettes and receiving their nicotine regardless of whether or not they smoke. This separates the habit and chemical addiction retraining your brain. It makes it easier to focus on the habit without being forced to address the chemical addition at the same time. Some may need to do this more slowly than the box recommendations to have this work better for them and reduce at their own speed rather than the standard set program. If they try to drop down to a lower patch too soon, they can go back to the higher patch or even alternate them in the beginning to smooth the transition. The objective here is to be comfortable with the reduction, and if you do it slowly enough you hardly notice it. Eventually on the lower patches, you just start waiting longer every day to change them until you no longer feel a need to change it at all.

In addition, just switching to vaping from smoking isn't quitting, if you are still vaping, it hasn't worked yet.

EDIT:
The level of withdrawal one goes through greatly varies per individual. Nicotine is considered just as addictive as cocaine or heroin.

The science behind why it's so difficult to quit smoking is crystal clear: Nicotine is addictive ? reportedly as addictive as cocaine or heroin.

Yet any adult can stroll into a drug store and buy a pack of cigarettes, no questions asked.

"From a scientific standpoint, nicotine is just as hard, or harder, to quit than heroin ? but people don't recognize that," said Dr. Neil Benowitz, a nicotine researcher at the University of California, San Francisco.

"Every drug of abuse, including nicotine, releases dopamine, which makes it pleasurable to use," said Benowitz. "And when you stop smoking, you have a deficiency of dopamine release, which causes a state of dysphoria: you feel anxious or depressed."

Nicotine also acts as a stimulant, said Benowitz. "It helps people concentrate, and if they don't have a cigarette, they have trouble focusing."

https://www.heart.org/en/news/2018/10/17/why-its-so-hard-to-quit-smoking

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/addiction-in-society/200812/the-7-hardest-addictions-quit-love-is-the-worst

cathou:
well, i guess at some point this week i will have to tell my wife, because right now i have huge mood swings, and apparently it's very apparent.

just before i start typing this, i had a very strong craving. i didnt had one for all day long, but for 5 minutes, i had this huge need for a cigarette. i realised that in my desk there's a 2 years old pack of malboro. i almost smoked it. i have to get rid of that tomorrow.

it was quite a strong craving, seriously, i almost cried. but it lasted less than 10 minutes. i'm ok now. i just hope it was the last big one...

It would be good to tell her and have her support. It is difficult enough to do on your own and having a loved one help you through and at least understand that it may not be the best time to initiate an irritating discussion could really help you make it through. I hope it goes well for you.

Doesn't Canada have good services for people who want to quit smoking? Please do that and tell your wife to help you. That's what good spouses are supposed to do.

Lil devils x:
Actually, in the studies we currently have, Vaping has been shown to not help with quitting smoking and is just as addictive as smoking and does not ween you from nicotine addiction. Yes, Smoking is still worse, but that is like arguing about whether it is worse to get hit by a car or a bus when both are pretty awful.

I cut the shit and went straight to the PLOS One site to read the article. Hint: you might want to do that. Specifically, the "limitations" and "competing interests" sections. Doesn't help their case that while they controlled for device type and even juice flavor, they didn't control for nicotine content of the juice. Just as one example.

But at least they did cite the lack of scientific consensus, and the number of studies that have found positive correlation between vaping and successful cessation.

This study brought to you in part by Pfizer, the pharmaceutical company whose flagship prescription cessation aid nearly got pulled from the market due to suicidal ideation and actions as potential side effects, yet successfully lobbied (keyword, lobbied) the FDA to remove its black box warning after a single study that was...quite controversial in the health care community, to say the least.

The most successful OTC method to quit smoking we have is a combination of replacement therapies that include the patch...

Keyword, "combination". NRT effectiveness still tanks when not accompanied by social support, therapy, and/or lifestyle change. Which was my entire point, we as a society are selling NRT to smokers as if it is a panacea when it is not.

Nicotine is considered just as addictive as cocaine or heroin.

You're comparing nicotine to a narcotic the withdrawal symptoms of which can literally kill you, and a stimulant of which those undergoing withdrawal have to be put on suicide watch.

Eacaraxe:

Lil devils x:
Actually, in the studies we currently have, Vaping has been shown to not help with quitting smoking and is just as addictive as smoking and does not ween you from nicotine addiction. Yes, Smoking is still worse, but that is like arguing about whether it is worse to get hit by a car or a bus when both are pretty awful.

I cut the shit and went straight to the PLOS One site to read the article. Hint: you might want to do that. Specifically, the "limitations" and "competing interests" sections. Doesn't help their case that while they controlled for device type and even juice flavor, they didn't control for nicotine content of the juice. Just as one example.

But at least they did cite the lack of scientific consensus, and the number of studies that have found positive correlation between vaping and successful cessation.

This study brought to you in part by Pfizer, the pharmaceutical company whose flagship prescription cessation aid nearly got pulled from the market due to suicidal ideation and actions as potential side effects, yet successfully lobbied (keyword, lobbied) the FDA to remove its black box warning after a single study that was...quite controversial in the health care community, to say the least.

The most successful OTC method to quit smoking we have is a combination of replacement therapies that include the patch...

Keyword, "combination". NRT effectiveness still tanks when not accompanied by social support, therapy, and/or lifestyle change. Which was my entire point, we as a society are selling NRT to smokers as if it is a panacea when it is not.

Nicotine is considered just as addictive as cocaine or heroin.

You're comparing nicotine to a narcotic the withdrawal symptoms of which can literally kill you, and a stimulant of which those undergoing withdrawal have to be put on suicide watch.

You should understand that the reason they say that it is just as addictive to Cocaine and Heroin is that people who have quit Cocaine and heroin have told us repeatedly and consistently that it was as difficult of not more difficult for them to quit smoking than when they quit the other drugs. This statement actually comes from those who have actually gone through these things, and how they rated it. If you disagree, you can take it up with those who have been through these things that rated it. We still have a good chunk of the population who was able to quit all the other drugs, but still unable to quit smoking.

Lil devils x:
You should understand that the reason they say that it is just as addictive to Cocaine and Heroin is that people who have quit Cocaine and heroin have told us repeatedly and consistently that it was as difficult of not more difficult for them to quit smoking than when they quit the other drugs. This statement actually comes from those who have actually gone through these things, and how they rated it. If you disagree, you can take it up with those who have been through these things that rated it. We still have a good chunk of the population who was able to quit all the other drugs, but still unable to quit smoking.

Not trying to be rude, but go back and read what I said, which was...

1. The addiction isn't down to the chemical, and its impact on the body, alone. It's a matter of habituation. I'd wager a guess that due the ubiquity and legality of tobacco products compared to cocaine and heroin, and the social circumstances behind their use, educating people to recognize relapse triggers and develop proper coping mechanisms is a mite more common for the latter.

The difference is, we treat addiction to drugs like cocaine and heroin seriously (well, kinda), recognize addicts have to change basically their entire lifestyle and social network to get off and stay off them, understand recovery is a lifelong process, and do our best as a society (well, kinda) to inform and equip addicts (well, those who can afford it) with the toolkit they need to get and stay clean. Nicotine? "well, here's a patch, fuck off".

The attitude you're expressing here, discussing tobacco use and habituation in terms exclusive to nicotine as a chemical while sweeping any other consideration to the side, is part of the problem. Would you suggest to a heroin addict all they need is just to detox, then go about their life as normal -- but just kinda maybe avoid stressful situations? No, in fact I'd be willing to wager you'd be the first to argue such a treatment is barbaric, inhumane, and more likely to lead to the addict killing themselves of an overdose (because that's what happens) than going on to lead a full and productive life.

So, if you're that deadset against nicotine in general, how and why is that attitude in any way excusable?

And, before I go onto #2, I'd specifically mention heroin here, because fear of dope sickness is what keeps a lot of addicts using -- and clean, once they are. So,

2. Even if one examines exclusively the impact of nicotine as a chemical, withdrawal's symptom severity and duration are nowhere near either of the two drugs you mention. As I said, heroin withdrawal can kill. Those undergoing cocaine withdrawal may have to be put on suicide watch. Compared to that, "quitter's flu" is nothing.

Eacaraxe:

Lil devils x:
You should understand that the reason they say that it is just as addictive to Cocaine and Heroin is that people who have quit Cocaine and heroin have told us repeatedly and consistently that it was as difficult of not more difficult for them to quit smoking than when they quit the other drugs. This statement actually comes from those who have actually gone through these things, and how they rated it. If you disagree, you can take it up with those who have been through these things that rated it. We still have a good chunk of the population who was able to quit all the other drugs, but still unable to quit smoking.

Not trying to be rude, but go back and read what I said, which was...

1. The addiction isn't down to the chemical, and its impact on the body, alone. It's a matter of habituation. I'd wager a guess that due the ubiquity and legality of tobacco products compared to cocaine and heroin, and the social circumstances behind their use, educating people to recognize relapse triggers and develop proper coping mechanisms is a mite more common for the latter.

The difference is, we treat addiction to drugs like cocaine and heroin seriously (well, kinda), recognize addicts have to change basically their entire lifestyle and social network to get off and stay off them, understand recovery is a lifelong process, and do our best as a society (well, kinda) to inform and equip addicts (well, those who can afford it) with the toolkit they need to get and stay clean. Nicotine? "well, here's a patch, fuck off".

The attitude you're expressing here, discussing tobacco use and habituation in terms exclusive to nicotine as a chemical while sweeping any other consideration to the side, is part of the problem. Would you suggest to a heroin addict all they need is just to detox, then go about their life as normal -- but just kinda maybe avoid stressful situations? No, in fact I'd be willing to wager you'd be the first to argue such a treatment is barbaric, inhumane, and more likely to lead to the addict killing themselves of an overdose (because that's what happens) than going on to lead a full and productive life.

So, if you're that deadset against nicotine in general, how and why is that attitude in any way excusable?

And, before I go onto #2, I'd specifically mention heroin here, because fear of dope sickness is what keeps a lot of addicts using -- and clean, once they are. So,

2. Even if one examines exclusively the impact of nicotine as a chemical, withdrawal's symptom severity and duration are nowhere near either of the two drugs you mention. As I said, heroin withdrawal can kill. Those undergoing cocaine withdrawal may have to be put on suicide watch. Compared to that, "quitter's flu" is nothing.

First of all, that is a false assumption on your part that I "swept to the side" the habituation issue, as I discussed at length the necessity of separating the habituation issue from the chemical dependence and retrain the brain to not associate the stimulant with the habit. In addition, I provided resources above to address utilizing cigarettes as a "Crutch" to deal with stress, and there are numerous techniques that can be used to reduce stress to better equip a person to deal when stressful situations arise.

I addressed that issue at length, and rather than me dismissing the importance of either the habitual issue or the chemical dependence, I see them as being equally important and how one or the other impacts each individual varies. Some may have more difficulty with the habitual portion, OTHERS have more issue with he chemical dependence. Some have no difficulty with either, that does not mean that others will have the same results, that is not how this works in practice at all.

You are the only one sweeping anything aside, I addressed both thoroughly at length. When you review the material I provided above on how to deal with anxiety and stress, and to have a plan when ready for when it becomes difficult that is to address creating new habits to break the old. You appear to have overlooked what I have already provided in my first post in this thread.

In addition, you don't think that there are " smokers groups" at work? Their breaks are spent together huddled outside as a group discussing daily events. Smokers often have to make a good number of changes as well, and yes this can mean making new friends and finding new hang outs in the process. Changing your behavior and social network can apply to smokers as well as other addictions. Sometimes they have to find new employment, leave a partner and find a new place to live in order to quit smoking depending on the individual circumstance.

EDIT:

Yes there is a link between smoking and mental health issues and suicide as well:

https://tobaccofreelife.org/resources/smoking-suicide-risks/

As well as already causing 1 in 5 deaths in the US each year.

https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/health_effects/tobacco_related_mortality/index.htm

https://www.councilonchemicalabuse.org/ndfw-nicotine-vs-heroin.html

US drug overdose deaths rose to record 72,000 last year, data reveals

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/aug/16/us-drug-overdose-deaths-opioids-fentanyl-cdc

Cigarette smoking is responsible for more than 480,000 deaths per year in the United States, including more than 41,000 deaths resulting from secondhand smoke exposure. This is about one in five deaths annually, or 1,300 deaths every day. On average, smokers die 10 years earlier than nonsmokers.

https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/fast_facts/index.htm

Now of course those stats include all drugs, not just heroine, but the numbers difference is still blatantly apparent when you compare the number of all combined drug overdoses to the deaths from smoking.

 

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here