Captain Marvel or How Marvel does everything better than everyone else

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Saelune:

CoCage:

Saelune:
That is a weak way to dismiss my view. I fucking loved the two robot fights, the one where she first fights those 3 people where it seemed like out of a video game, and the rollerball fight. I just didn't like the 99% of the movie where it was a shitty romance film. Don't think because I have standards, that it means I don't enjoy things.

I wasn't trying to dismiss your view nor implying it, that was all you. The romance ain't bad, just basic. I won't take this further, but you're sounding really salty.

Salty because you clearly tried to dismiss my views in an unfair way. You can pretend you didn't, but you did. Calling me salty is you again trying to dismiss my view just because you don't like it.

You do realize I stopped caring at this point. I am serious when I say this, but have a blessed day or evening (I don't know your time zone).

CoCage:

Saelune:

CoCage:

I wasn't trying to dismiss your view nor implying it, that was all you. The romance ain't bad, just basic. I won't take this further, but you're sounding really salty.

Salty because you clearly tried to dismiss my views in an unfair way. You can pretend you didn't, but you did. Calling me salty is you again trying to dismiss my view just because you don't like it.

You do realize I stopped caring at this point. I am serious when I say this, but have a blessed day or evening (I don't know your time zone).

'I don't care and I want everyone to see how much I don't care!'

So...is this a Captain Marvel thread, or an Alita thread?

Or is it a Captain Marvel AND Alita thread? 0_0

Hawki:
So...is this a Captain Marvel thread, or an Alita thread?

Or is it a Captain Marvel AND Alita thread? 0_0

Looks like it's both for right now.

Strange, isn't it?!!! GGGGGGRRRRRRHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

CoCage:

Looks like it's both for right now.

Strange, isn't it?!!! GGGGGGRRRRRRHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

...does that mean that one of us is going to jump up into the air, smash through a spaceship, and look up Carol or Alita's panties?

Hawki:

CoCage:

Looks like it's both for right now.

Strange, isn't it?!!! GGGGGGRRRRRRHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

...does that mean that one of us is going to jump up into the air, smash through a spaceship, and look up Carol or Alita's panties?

You can of if you want; which lady is up to you.

Hawki:

CoCage:

Looks like it's both for right now.

Strange, isn't it?!!! GGGGGGRRRRRRHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

...does that mean that one of us is going to jump up into the air, smash through a spaceship, and look up Carol or Alita's panties?

And again, how did we get here?

Gordon_4:

Hawki:

CoCage:

Looks like it's both for right now.

Strange, isn't it?!!! GGGGGGRRRRRRHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

...does that mean that one of us is going to jump up into the air, smash through a spaceship, and look up Carol or Alita's panties?

And again, how did we get here?

You already know the answer to that. If you want get the topic back on track, feel free, I already said my piece.

CoCage:

Gordon_4:

Hawki:

...does that mean that one of us is going to jump up into the air, smash through a spaceship, and look up Carol or Alita's panties?

And again, how did we get here?

You already know the answer to that. If you want get the topic back on track, feel free, I already said my piece.

No I mean very specifically how did we get to looking up Alita or Carol's panties? Like I feel there's a whole bunch of posts that got removed and I'm missing vital context.

Gordon_4:
No I mean very specifically how did we get to looking up Alita or Carol's panties? Like I feel there's a whole bunch of posts that got removed and I'm missing vital context.

Don't they both wear onies though?

Casual Shinji:

Gordon_4:
No I mean very specifically how did we get to looking up Alita or Carol's panties? Like I feel there's a whole bunch of posts that got removed and I'm missing vital context.

Don't they both wear onies though?

I can see em going commando I guess. Panties are symbols of the patriarchy and are fetishized by us evil penis-wielders! :P

Saw Captain Marvel. It's ok. Story ok. Action ok. Performances ok. Effects ok, aside from The Uncanny Phil Coulson (guess de-aging Sam Jackson got all the budget). Captain Marvel herself feels kind of dull to me tho, but that just might be because the MCU is already full of larger than life characters with several movies worth of development behind them, making her seem plain by comparison. Also, yoo know, Sam Jackson IS in it. Dude tends to out-charisma pretty much anyone.

Gordon_4:

Hawki:

CoCage:

Looks like it's both for right now.

Strange, isn't it?!!! GGGGGGRRRRRRHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

...does that mean that one of us is going to jump up into the air, smash through a spaceship, and look up Carol or Alita's panties?

And again, how did we get here?

Jews.

Poor Alita movie. It didn't deserve to be associated with anti-feminist edgelords and compared with Captain Marvel like it was a competition. Screw the edgelords!

CaitSeith:
Poor Alita movie. It didn't deserve to be associated with anti-feminist edgelords and compared with Captain Marvel like it was a competition. Screw the edgelords!

So, fun little fact, CM made 153 million over its opening weekend, Alita made 3.2 million in the same period. So much for the challenge.

I'd say more, but I barely care. We have a terrible film failing to beat an average film. Like, how is this a thing? How did this become a thing?

(Rhetorical question, don't bother answering.)

Johnny Novgorod:

Samtemdo8:

Kenbo Slice:

The movie itself wasn't overbearingly feminist (although Just A Girl playing during a fight was corny as fuck).

I still think Brie Larson isn't a good choice for Carol. The movie really only works because of the supporting cast.

I think the actual concern is that it will be Captain Marvel and her alone that will the chosen one to ultimately defeat and kill Thanos.

I don't think anybody's gonna "kill" Thanos. He's gonna die from tapping into too much power or some blameless bullshit like every other MCU villain. Disney can't have their heroes kill the villain. Ever notice how all the MCU baddies either kill each other or otherwise kill themselves?

Uh. Tony ordered Pepper to overload a reactor in Iron Monger's face. Tony and Rhodey overloaded their beams in Whiplash's face. Pepper killed the Mandarin. Thor killed what's his face from the Dark World. The Guardians of the Galaxy killed Ego with a bomb. Black Panther stabbed Killmonger. Vision fried the last Ultron robot.

erttheking:

Johnny Novgorod:

Samtemdo8:

I think the actual concern is that it will be Captain Marvel and her alone that will the chosen one to ultimately defeat and kill Thanos.

I don't think anybody's gonna "kill" Thanos. He's gonna die from tapping into too much power or some blameless bullshit like every other MCU villain. Disney can't have their heroes kill the villain. Ever notice how all the MCU baddies either kill each other or otherwise kill themselves?

Uh. Tony ordered Pepper to overload a reactor in Iron Monger?s face. Tony and Rhodey overloaded their beams in Whiplash?s face. Pepper killed the Mandarin. Thor killed what?s his face from the Dark World. The Guardians of the Galaxy killed Ego with a bomb. Black Panther stabbed Killmonger. Vision fried the last Ultron robot.

The guardians also killed the villain in 1. And antman killed yellowjacket

erttheking:

Johnny Novgorod:

Samtemdo8:

I think the actual concern is that it will be Captain Marvel and her alone that will the chosen one to ultimately defeat and kill Thanos.

I don't think anybody's gonna "kill" Thanos. He's gonna die from tapping into too much power or some blameless bullshit like every other MCU villain. Disney can't have their heroes kill the villain. Ever notice how all the MCU baddies either kill each other or otherwise kill themselves?

Uh. Tony ordered Pepper to overload a reactor in Iron Monger?s face. Tony and Rhodey overloaded their beams in Whiplash?s face. Pepper killed the Mandarin. Thor killed what?s his face from the Dark World. The Guardians of the Galaxy killed Ego with a bomb. Black Panther stabbed Killmonger. Vision fried the last Ultron robot.

From Wikipedia:
Killmonger "refuses to be healed, choosing to die ".
Malekith "is crushed by his own damaged ship."
Vanko "commits suicide by blowing up his suit."

As for the rest, everybody sort of gets an ironic punishment playing agaisnt their hubris that might as well be handed over by fate.
Ultron is a robot, killed by another robot.
Ego is a planet that destroys planets until it's destroyed itself.
Killian is infected with a virus that takes over and is killed by another person infected with a virus that takes over.
Stane is operating and unwieldy, unstable power-hungry machine that gets fried from too much power. Pepper pushed a button.
Bonus: Cross uses a suit to shrink in size, his suit shrinks him to death. Scott pushed a button.

Every villain either chooses to die, dies from "too much power!" or otherwise simply gets just desserts from fate by having the good guy push a button and watch. Death is usually played more as their fault rather than the hero's, who remains blameless. I think that's a very comfy, convenient way of ending a fight (or a movie for that matter). Nobody ever really makes a tough choice. It's as if the hero just has to run the clock down until the villain makes a mistake and kills himself.

Johnny Novgorod:

erttheking:

Johnny Novgorod:

I don't think anybody's gonna "kill" Thanos. He's gonna die from tapping into too much power or some blameless bullshit like every other MCU villain. Disney can't have their heroes kill the villain. Ever notice how all the MCU baddies either kill each other or otherwise kill themselves?

Uh. Tony ordered Pepper to overload a reactor in Iron Monger?s face. Tony and Rhodey overloaded their beams in Whiplash?s face. Pepper killed the Mandarin. Thor killed what?s his face from the Dark World. The Guardians of the Galaxy killed Ego with a bomb. Black Panther stabbed Killmonger. Vision fried the last Ultron robot.

From Wikipedia:
Killmonger "refuses to be healed, choosing to die ".
Malekith "is crushed by his own damaged ship."
Vanko "commits suicide by blowing up his suit."

As for the rest, everybody sort of gets an ironic punishment playing agaisnt their hubris that might as well be handed over by fate.
Ultron is a robot, killed by another robot.
Ego is a planet that destroys planets until it's destroyed itself.
Killian is infected with a virus that takes over and is killed by another person infected with a virus that takes over.
Stane is operating and unwieldy, unstable power-hungry machine that gets fried from too much power. Pepper pushed a button.
Bonus: Cross uses a suit to shrink in size, his suit shrinks him to death. Scott pushed a button.

Every villain either chooses to die, dies from "too much power!" or otherwise simply gets just desserts from fate by having the good guy push a button and watch. Death is usually played more as their fault rather than the hero's, who remains blameless. I think that's a very comfy, convenient way of ending a fight (or a movie for that matter). Nobody ever really makes a tough choice. It's as if the hero just has to run the clock down until the villain makes a mistake and kills himself.

You said the villains always die by overloading their powers or killing themselves.

You can't move the goal posts to now include karmetic deaths.

undeadsuitor:

Johnny Novgorod:

erttheking:

Uh. Tony ordered Pepper to overload a reactor in Iron Monger?s face. Tony and Rhodey overloaded their beams in Whiplash?s face. Pepper killed the Mandarin. Thor killed what?s his face from the Dark World. The Guardians of the Galaxy killed Ego with a bomb. Black Panther stabbed Killmonger. Vision fried the last Ultron robot.

From Wikipedia:
Killmonger "refuses to be healed, choosing to die ".
Malekith "is crushed by his own damaged ship."
Vanko "commits suicide by blowing up his suit."

As for the rest, everybody sort of gets an ironic punishment playing agaisnt their hubris that might as well be handed over by fate.
Ultron is a robot, killed by another robot.
Ego is a planet that destroys planets until it's destroyed itself.
Killian is infected with a virus that takes over and is killed by another person infected with a virus that takes over.
Stane is operating and unwieldy, unstable power-hungry machine that gets fried from too much power. Pepper pushed a button.
Bonus: Cross uses a suit to shrink in size, his suit shrinks him to death. Scott pushed a button.

Every villain either chooses to die, dies from "too much power!" or otherwise simply gets just desserts from fate by having the good guy push a button and watch. Death is usually played more as their fault rather than the hero's, who remains blameless. I think that's a very comfy, convenient way of ending a fight (or a movie for that matter). Nobody ever really makes a tough choice. It's as if the hero just has to run the clock down until the villain makes a mistake and kills himself.

You said the villains always die by overloading their powers or killing themselves.

You can't move the goal posts to now include karmetic deaths.

It's karmic.
Of which "power overload" and "killing themselves" are examples.

Johnny Novgorod:

erttheking:

Johnny Novgorod:

I don't think anybody's gonna "kill" Thanos. He's gonna die from tapping into too much power or some blameless bullshit like every other MCU villain. Disney can't have their heroes kill the villain. Ever notice how all the MCU baddies either kill each other or otherwise kill themselves?

Uh. Tony ordered Pepper to overload a reactor in Iron Monger?s face. Tony and Rhodey overloaded their beams in Whiplash?s face. Pepper killed the Mandarin. Thor killed what?s his face from the Dark World. The Guardians of the Galaxy killed Ego with a bomb. Black Panther stabbed Killmonger. Vision fried the last Ultron robot.

From Wikipedia:
Killmonger "refuses to be healed, choosing to die ".
Malekith "is crushed by his own damaged ship."
Vanko "commits suicide by blowing up his suit."

As for the rest, everybody sort of gets an ironic punishment playing agaisnt their hubris that might as well be handed over by fate.
Ultron is a robot, killed by another robot.
Ego is a planet that destroys planets until it's destroyed itself.
Killian is infected with a virus that takes over and is killed by another person infected with a virus that takes over.
Stane is operating and unwieldy, unstable power-hungry machine that gets fried from too much power. Pepper pushed a button.
Bonus: Cross uses a suit to shrink in size, his suit shrinks him to death. Scott pushed a button.

Every villain either chooses to die, dies from "too much power!" or otherwise simply gets just desserts from fate by having the good guy push a button and watch. Death is usually played more as their fault rather than the hero's, who remains blameless. I think that's a very comfy, convenient way of ending a fight (or a movie for that matter). Nobody ever really makes a tough choice. It's as if the hero just has to run the clock down until the villain makes a mistake and kills himself.

Still died from someone else stabbing him, he was crushed by his own ship after someone else teleported it right on top of him. Vanko I'll give you that.

But your argument was "Disney can't have their heroes kill the villain." And you were pretty blatantly wrong on that front.

P.S. "Ego is a planet that destroys planets until it's destroyed itself." That is a big strech when it comes to irony. Also he tried to destroy planets. He never actually pulled it off.

Johnny Novgorod:

It's karmic.
Of which "power overload" and "killing themselves" are examples.

But that's it though. You said every villain either kills themselves or goes power overload. And when presented with evidence that over half of the marvel villains don't fit those definitions, you widened it to "karmic", including examples where the villain neither killed themselves or went overload.

You're being disingenuous and you know it.

You've made the definition so fucking wide that I honestly can't think of a way for a villain to lose and not fit into this formula you've created in your head. Because after all, if the villain sets out to 'defeat' the hero, and the hero 'defeats' them, Karmic death! Cause you see, the villain wanted to do the defeating, but it was he who was defeated!

Went to see it because there was nothing else on and the wife fancied going to the cinema.

Quick review: It was a okay film where the main character was also the worst character.

Extended thoughts: I didn't feel like Carol had an arc. Like in Spider-Man: Homecoming Peter went from being reckless and fool-hardy to learning that his actions have consequences. Carol didn't really learn anything even after finding out that she'd been manipulated and restrained. She just swapped sides and got more powerful. Most of her one liners fell flat and if I had to describe her personality it would be...I actually can't think of anything. I just asked my wife to describe her personality and her first response was "absent". Action scenes were pretty standard and bland. There were't any really interesting set pieces. During the black box flashback I wondered why they didn't do more dog fights, given that Carol being a jet pilot was a whole thing. If she'd been able to fly from the start they could have had some more interesting stuff going on.

The 90s thing felt weird. Like they weren't sure how to convey that it was the 90s so they just threw in some on-the-nose references and music and called it a day. The music was pretty jarring. My wife like Courtney Love over the end credits.

The supporting cast were the best part. The skrull dude interacting with Fury, Goose and Maria were my favourite parts of the film. I actually don't see why everyone is losing it over Goose. The cat stuff got the biggest laughs though and I'm not a big cat person these days but it felt like they were trying to mascot her too hard.

The best thing I can say is that the film was competent. While watching it I actually thought I would have rather seen a film about Monica Rambeau. Carol could have been the mentor figure and Monica being a black girl growing up in the South would have had much more interesting places for her story to go, especially with the Kree/Skrull thing going on. I dunno, thats probably too heavy for Marvel.

Interestingly my wifes take away was that they wanted Maria and Carol to be lesbians but couldn't write it that way because Disney. Her favourite bit was Stan's cameo.

erttheking:
P.S. "Ego is a planet that destroys planets until it's destroyed itself." That is a big strech when it comes to irony. Also he tried to destroy planets. He never actually pulled it off.

At the risk of getting into a back-and-forth on the definition of irony... that sounds pretty ironic to me.

The argument is, a hero can never be burdened too much with the responsibility of a villain's death. There's always an element of fate fucking the bad guy over, a decisive blunder that has the hero react in self-defense or something amounting to suicide. Heroes are just running the clock until one of those things happens, and to me that takes away any suspense from the battle. It's a Disney thing - can't have the good guy murder a person, you need a morally squeaky-clean slate to keep things for the whole family. Not to say there hasn't been Disney movies that defy these rules back in the day, but nowadays with the intense moral scrutiny everything receives it's impossible to imagine a superhero do anything but run the clock and wait for the villain to undo himself.

Johnny Novgorod:

The argument is, a hero can never be burdened too much with the responsibility of a villain's death. There's always an element of fate fucking the bad guy over, a decisive blunder that has the hero react in self-defense or something amounting to suicide. Heroes are just running the clock until one of those things happens, and to me that takes away any suspense from the battle. It's a Disney thing - can't have the good guy murder a person, you need a morally squeaky-clean slate to keep things for the whole family. Not to say there hasn't been Disney movies that defy these rules back in the day, but nowadays with the intense moral scrutiny everything receives it's impossible to imagine a superhero do anything but run the clock and wait for the villain to undo himself.

...The Guardians planted a bomb in Ego's brain.

erttheking:

Johnny Novgorod:

The argument is, a hero can never be burdened too much with the responsibility of a villain's death. There's always an element of fate fucking the bad guy over, a decisive blunder that has the hero react in self-defense or something amounting to suicide. Heroes are just running the clock until one of those things happens, and to me that takes away any suspense from the battle. It's a Disney thing - can't have the good guy murder a person, you need a morally squeaky-clean slate to keep things for the whole family. Not to say there hasn't been Disney movies that defy these rules back in the day, but nowadays with the intense moral scrutiny everything receives it's impossible to imagine a superhero do anything but run the clock and wait for the villain to undo himself.

...The Guardians planted a bomb in Ego's brain.

They also stared Ronan in the eyes and blew him up.

Vision calmly talked to the last ultron robot before killing him.

Antman killed Yellowjacket to protect his daughter.

Pepper killed that not mandarin dude with a bomb

What would it take for a hero to shoulder the entire burden? Since obviously shooting the villain with a gun would put some of the burden on the gun..would iron man just have to choke a dude out with his bare hands?

erttheking:

Johnny Novgorod:

The argument is, a hero can never be burdened too much with the responsibility of a villain's death. There's always an element of fate fucking the bad guy over, a decisive blunder that has the hero react in self-defense or something amounting to suicide. Heroes are just running the clock until one of those things happens, and to me that takes away any suspense from the battle. It's a Disney thing - can't have the good guy murder a person, you need a morally squeaky-clean slate to keep things for the whole family. Not to say there hasn't been Disney movies that defy these rules back in the day, but nowadays with the intense moral scrutiny everything receives it's impossible to imagine a superhero do anything but run the clock and wait for the villain to undo himself.

...The Guardians planted a bomb in Ego's brain.

Yeah but for all intents and purposes they just blew up a planet. It felt more like stopping an evil force of nature (like Parallax and Galactus: a bunch of hazy space meanness) than actually killing a person, Kurt Russell avatar notwithstanding.

Johnny Novgorod:

erttheking:

Johnny Novgorod:

The argument is, a hero can never be burdened too much with the responsibility of a villain's death. There's always an element of fate fucking the bad guy over, a decisive blunder that has the hero react in self-defense or something amounting to suicide. Heroes are just running the clock until one of those things happens, and to me that takes away any suspense from the battle. It's a Disney thing - can't have the good guy murder a person, you need a morally squeaky-clean slate to keep things for the whole family. Not to say there hasn't been Disney movies that defy these rules back in the day, but nowadays with the intense moral scrutiny everything receives it's impossible to imagine a superhero do anything but run the clock and wait for the villain to undo himself.

...The Guardians planted a bomb in Ego's brain.

Yeah but for all intents and purposes they just blew up a planet. It felt more like stopping an evil force of nature (like Parallax and Galactus: a bunch of hazy space meanness) than actually killing a person, Kurt Russell avatar notwithstanding.

That doesn't matter. They killed the bad guy. And I gave you other examples of this happening.

Hawki:
We have a terrible film failing to beat an average film.

This is what I'm talking about. They never were meant to beat each other. Now Alita can't be its own thing as it was meant to be, and it will be known more as the loser to Captain Marvel in the "culture war" than just Alita: The Movie. Screw the edgelords!

It was a fun movie, but it had a few instances that made me roll my eyes;

Why didn't Vers, who still very much thinks that the Skrull are a threat to the universe, kill the Skrull that was on the ground next to Sam Jackson? Oh yeah, they needed him to be a good guy a few scenes later.

Why did Sam Jackson suddenly start playing with a cat after breaking out of his make shift holding cell? Oh yeah, we needed some laughs with the audience and a way to introduce this cat monsters thing.

bluegate:
It was a fun movie, but it had a few instances that made me roll my eyes;

Why didn't Vers, who still very much thinks that the Skrull are a threat to the universe, kill the Skrull that was on the ground next to Sam Jackson? Oh yeah, they needed him to be a good guy a few scenes later.

Why did Sam Jackson suddenly start playing with a cat after breaking out of his make shift holding cell? Oh yeah, we needed some laughs with the audience and a way to introduce this cat monsters thing.

Fury felt very out of character for the whole film. Like he'd gone from a cynical wise-ass to just a generic Marvel side-character.

Maybe something awful happens to Goose later to make him more jaded.

Here Comes Tomorrow:

bluegate:
It was a fun movie, but it had a few instances that made me roll my eyes;

Why didn't Vers, who still very much thinks that the Skrull are a threat to the universe, kill the Skrull that was on the ground next to Sam Jackson? Oh yeah, they needed him to be a good guy a few scenes later.

Why did Sam Jackson suddenly start playing with a cat after breaking out of his make shift holding cell? Oh yeah, we needed some laughs with the audience and a way to introduce this cat monsters thing.

Fury felt very out of character for the whole film. Like he'd gone from a cynical wise-ass to just a generic Marvel side-character.

Maybe something awful happens to Goose later to make him more jaded.

Didn't he go from a desk jockey to leader of shield

I'd imagine the stress and responsibility of that station would change someone

The fact that old bitter Nick fury is still a smarmy ass and obsessed with colorful super heroes is just how old personality bleeding through the cracks of the mantle he's wearing

Here Comes Tomorrow:

Gordon_4:

Hawki:

...does that mean that one of us is going to jump up into the air, smash through a spaceship, and look up Carol or Alita's panties?

And again, how did we get here?

Jews.

(((They)))

Here Comes Tomorrow:

bluegate:
It was a fun movie, but it had a few instances that made me roll my eyes;

Why didn't Vers, who still very much thinks that the Skrull are a threat to the universe, kill the Skrull that was on the ground next to Sam Jackson? Oh yeah, they needed him to be a good guy a few scenes later.

Why did Sam Jackson suddenly start playing with a cat after breaking out of his make shift holding cell? Oh yeah, we needed some laughs with the audience and a way to introduce this cat monsters thing.

Fury felt very out of character for the whole film. Like he'd gone from a cynical wise-ass to just a generic Marvel side-character.

Maybe something awful happens to Goose later to make him more jaded.

I mean, this is Fresh Fury. He hasn't yet seen half the shit that Director Fury has seen. The reason he's so unflappable about aliens who are also Norse gods turning up later is because he's seen aliens who are also shapeshifters show up in the 90s. Its his first step into the extraordinary

Meh. It was enjoyable and I can dig the "girl power" message because it's both cool and pisses off the right people but it was a Marvel film. They're all noisy and fun and have a decent sountrack and are well produced but kinda forgettable. Nice twist half-way through that I guess was kinda interesting. Also, either Sam Jackson is looking good these days or else anti-aging CGI is finally getting good.

Actually, being an old Kevin Smith fan, the Stan Lee cameo was pretty damn funny and the highlight of the film for me. I won't spoil it but it seemed a fitting meta tribute for him to go out on.

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