Captain Marvel or How Marvel does everything better than everyone else

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CaitSeith:

Hawki:
We have a terrible film failing to beat an average film.

This is what I'm talking about. They never were meant to beat each other. Now Alita can't be its own thing as it was meant to be, and it will be known more as the loser to Captain Marvel in the "culture war" than just Alita: The Movie. Screw the edgelords!

Who gives a fuck what they think? Alita is a winner in my books. The same goes for Captain Marvel, even though I hold no interests in seeing the movie.

I agree with you on the screw edgelords part.

Avnger:
He obviously never saw the movie.

It's really sad how easy it is to tell between those who actually experience something and those who regurgitate talking points from anti-"SJW" youtube videos about it.

That was...not my takeaway from that movie.

To the best of my critical analysis, it passed no judgment on ethno-states in and of themselves. The closest thing to a thesis the film had, in that regard, was that extremism was bad...whether it's extreme isolationism, or extreme interventionism (i.e. colonialism or imperialism). Not to mention, the movie was an overt call-out of Western social activism and "woke" culture, and the paradox that pan-Africanism and afro-nationalism are of, by, and for the (sub-Saharan) African diaspora in the West and, scratching the surface, have vaguely colonialist notions all to their own and little regard for native African sovereignty and agency.

And with that context in mind...Captain Marvel. Funny enough, I had an hour-long discussion with a friend at my place of employment just this week about the movie, wherein I stated my lack of desire to see it nor my support for the movie, the character as she currently is, or the actress portraying her. Most of the hour was spent correcting his initial assumption I was being one of "those" people.

Carol Danvers is actually one of my favorite Marvel characters...at least, she was until 2012. Because, unlike most apparently, I understand the character and understand the backstory behind her creation. You know, a product of second-wave feminism, the character being given her own series in 1977 and the title "Ms. Marvel" (you know, as in Ms. magazine) being a marked feminist political statement, and the character in the comics having a quite outspoken feminist outlook.

None of which mattered in 2012, when certain folks slaving under "gaze theory uber alles", contemporary, post-social media, talking-point-fueled "feminism" decided the character having big tits and wearing a leotard made her problematic, and to Hell with the rest smeared their naked misogyny masquerading as gender transgressivism all over the comic's pages. Erasing the character that once was, and the diverse legacy of the moniker "Captain Marvel" along with it, without so much as a hint of self-awareness or irony of the act.

And, again without a shred of self-awareness or irony, this revisionist take on the character was the one brought to the big screen and given a privileged role in the MCU. Above, y'know, Black Widow, Scarlet Witch (one of my other favorite Marvel characters), Shuri, or Okoye. Especially Shuri, who should become Ironheart after RDJ's departure and you all know it.

No thanks. I'll go watch Wonder Woman again instead of putting a red cent of my own money on the line for that crap.

erttheking:

Johnny Novgorod:

erttheking:

...The Guardians planted a bomb in Ego's brain.

Yeah but for all intents and purposes they just blew up a planet. It felt more like stopping an evil force of nature (like Parallax and Galactus: a bunch of hazy space meanness) than actually killing a person, Kurt Russell avatar notwithstanding.

That doesn?t matter. They killed the bad guy. And I gave you other examples of this happening.

Matters to me. I'm not saying the movies are "wrong" for being unlike how I'd prefer them. But in every villain death there's always an element of a "lucky parry" or split-second self-defense that absolves the good guy from actual murder. And if there isn't then it's like blowing up an obstacle or something like that. That's how I knew Thanos wasn't dead when Thor axed him. No MCU villain would get killed in a direct attack from the good guy.

Mark my words: Thanos is gonna die from a fall, some form of sleight of hand, an attack's gonna bounce back, he's gonna asplode from too much powah or some conveniently clean bullshit. At best he'll "let" himself get killed.

Johnny Novgorod:
No MCU villain would get killed in a direct attack from the good guy.

...Ronan
Ego
Malekith
YellowJacket
Mandarin
Ultron

undeadsuitor:

Johnny Novgorod:
No MCU villain would get killed in a direct attack from the good guy.

...Ronan
Ego
Malekith
YellowJacket
Mandarin
Ultron

You forgot the one dude where Drax rips that piece of circuitry out of his head. Not a main villain, but still prominent enough. While we're talking, Scarlet Witch also throws that blue-haired chick into one of those big grinders in Infinity War.

Casual Shinji:

undeadsuitor:

Johnny Novgorod:
No MCU villain would get killed in a direct attack from the good guy.

...Ronan
Ego
Malekith
YellowJacket
Mandarin
Ultron

You forgot the one dude where Drax rips that piece of circuitry out of his head. Not a main villain, but still prominent enough. While we're talking, Scarlet Witch also throws that blue-haired chick into one of those big grinders in Infinity War.

Oh yeah. Every member of the Black Order or whatever the rest of the children of Thanos were called in Infinity War were directly killed by heroes.

I also forgot to add every Ravager minus Taserface in GotG 2 (because Taserface was only blown up directly by heroes, and explosions don't count)

undeadsuitor:

Johnny Novgorod:
No MCU villain would get killed in a direct attack from the good guy.

...Ronan
Ego
Malekith
YellowJacket
Mandarin
Ultron

Yeah read back, already answered those.

Alright, my review. 7.5/10

They're trying a different structure to the story and I don't think they pull it off. That being said, the amnesia was more believable than normal. Normally, I roll my eyes at any amnesia, except Momento. Keep,experimenting Mavel, at least it's something new. I didn't care for Carol friend and could have finished with Earth as soon as they left project Pegasus. Carol was pretty funny but not in a one liner way. It just didn't have the quipiness of a normal Marvel movie. Mendelssohn and the whole Skrulls thing was good. I didn't care about the betrayal at all, those characters had not spent much screen time together, why would I care. But the last fight and nothing to prove was really good. I hate movies scenes that depower someone for a honourable fight (eg. Black Panther.) I also really liked when Marvel found out that Fury screwed up. That was a great moment that sold Larsen for me

Johnny Novgorod:

erttheking:

Johnny Novgorod:

Yeah but for all intents and purposes they just blew up a planet. It felt more like stopping an evil force of nature (like Parallax and Galactus: a bunch of hazy space meanness) than actually killing a person, Kurt Russell avatar notwithstanding.

That doesn?t matter. They killed the bad guy. And I gave you other examples of this happening.

Matters to me. I'm not saying the movies are "wrong" for being unlike how I'd prefer them. But in every villain death there's always an element of a "lucky parry" or split-second self-defense that absolves the good guy from actual murder. And if there isn't then it's like blowing up an obstacle or something like that. That's how I knew Thanos wasn't dead when Thor axed him. No MCU villain would get killed in a direct attack from the good guy.

Mark my words: Thanos is gonna die from a fall, some form of sleight of hand, an attack's gonna bounce back, he's gonna asplode from too much powah or some conveniently clean bullshit. At best he'll "let" himself get killed.

They. Planted. A. Bomb. In. His. Brain. I don't know how to make this any more clear to you. They flat out said they needed to destroy Ego's brain and Rocket prepped a bomb with the sole purpose of killing Ego. There is no "lucky parry" or "split second self defense." They went in saying that they needed to kill him.

You're flat out ignoring what's in front of your face. And you're arguing past me.

Look.

I haven't seen the movie yet, but all the shrieking and howling about "feminism" this and "sexism" that are not helping. I just want to enjoy a movie without worrying about all this social justice bullshit, but that's hard when people can't come to a civilized agreement anymore.

Sorry for coming off as blunt... I just really wanted to get this off my chest. I don't expect anyone to listen.

CrazyGirl17:
Look.

I haven?t seen the movie yet, but all the shrieking and howling about ?feminism? this and ?sexism? that are not helping. I just want to enjoy a movie without worrying about all this social justice bullshit, but that?s hard when people can?t come to a civilized agreement anymore.

Sorry for coming off as blunt... I just really wanted to get this off my chest. I don?t expect anyone to listen.

You're going to have to point out when society ever came to a civilized agreement. It's been a long tradition since at least the Magna Carta to force one side to give the other Rights etc. And by force, I mean humiliating as well.

trunkage:

CrazyGirl17:
Look.

I haven?t seen the movie yet, but all the shrieking and howling about ?feminism? this and ?sexism? that are not helping. I just want to enjoy a movie without worrying about all this social justice bullshit, but that?s hard when people can?t come to a civilized agreement anymore.

Sorry for coming off as blunt... I just really wanted to get this off my chest. I don?t expect anyone to listen.

You're going to have to point out when society ever came to a civilized agreement. It's been a long tradition since at least the Magna Carta to force one side to give the other Rights etc. And by force, I mean humiliating as well.

Fair enough. I'm just sick of reality getting in the way of my enjoyment of entertainment.

CrazyGirl17:

trunkage:

CrazyGirl17:
Look.

I haven?t seen the movie yet, but all the shrieking and howling about ?feminism? this and ?sexism? that are not helping. I just want to enjoy a movie without worrying about all this social justice bullshit, but that?s hard when people can?t come to a civilized agreement anymore.

Sorry for coming off as blunt... I just really wanted to get this off my chest. I don?t expect anyone to listen.

You're going to have to point out when society ever came to a civilized agreement. It's been a long tradition since at least the Magna Carta to force one side to give the other Rights etc. And by force, I mean humiliating as well.

Fair enough. I?m just sick of reality getting in the way of my enjoyment of entertainment.

Couldn't agree more

CrazyGirl17:

trunkage:

CrazyGirl17:
Look.

I haven?t seen the movie yet, but all the shrieking and howling about ?feminism? this and ?sexism? that are not helping. I just want to enjoy a movie without worrying about all this social justice bullshit, but that?s hard when people can?t come to a civilized agreement anymore.

Sorry for coming off as blunt... I just really wanted to get this off my chest. I don?t expect anyone to listen.

You're going to have to point out when society ever came to a civilized agreement. It's been a long tradition since at least the Magna Carta to force one side to give the other Rights etc. And by force, I mean humiliating as well.

Fair enough. I?m just sick of reality getting in the way of my enjoyment of entertainment.

Don't let idiots like that, bother you nor ruin your entertainment. You have the right to enjoy Captain Marvel or whatever else you like or dislike. As my great grandmother told me "See a fool, leave a fool". After seeing Black Panther and Spiderverse, I didn't let people who dislike the movies for racial reasons or try to undermine their success bring me down. Fuck people like that. Most of them are attention whores with nothing better to do with their lives and are all the more miserable because of it.

CrazyGirl17:

trunkage:

CrazyGirl17:
Look.

I haven?t seen the movie yet, but all the shrieking and howling about ?feminism? this and ?sexism? that are not helping. I just want to enjoy a movie without worrying about all this social justice bullshit, but that?s hard when people can?t come to a civilized agreement anymore.

Sorry for coming off as blunt... I just really wanted to get this off my chest. I don?t expect anyone to listen.

You're going to have to point out when society ever came to a civilized agreement. It's been a long tradition since at least the Magna Carta to force one side to give the other Rights etc. And by force, I mean humiliating as well.

Fair enough. I?m just sick of reality getting in the way of my enjoyment of entertainment.

If it makes you feel any better the feminist stuff in Captain Marvel is eye rolling at best. It doesn't beat you over the head with it. Most of the problems with it stem from Larson just being a bad fit in the role.

CrazyGirl17:
Look.

I haven?t seen the movie yet, but all the shrieking and howling about ?feminism? this and ?sexism? that are not helping. I just want to enjoy a movie without worrying about all this social justice bullshit, but that?s hard when people can?t come to a civilized agreement anymore.

Sorry for coming off as blunt... I just really wanted to get this off my chest. I don?t expect anyone to listen.

This seems an odd stance for you to take. You always come off very progressive.

Saelune:

CrazyGirl17:
Look.

I haven?t seen the movie yet, but all the shrieking and howling about ?feminism? this and ?sexism? that are not helping. I just want to enjoy a movie without worrying about all this social justice bullshit, but that?s hard when people can?t come to a civilized agreement anymore.

Sorry for coming off as blunt... I just really wanted to get this off my chest. I don?t expect anyone to listen.

This seems an odd stance for you to take. You always come off very progressive.

First off, thank you for noticing! And second... I'm all for social equality, I just HATE the people who take it too far. That kind of extremism ruins it or everyone else and makes people like me look bad. I wish I could slap them, but no, no, I have to be "better than that". Yes, I'm bitter. I hope I explained myself better.

CrazyGirl17:
I'm all for social equality, I just HATE the people who take it too far. That kind of extremism ruins it or everyone else and makes people like me look bad. I wish I could slap them, but no, no, I have to be "better than that". Yes, I'm bitter.

I understand the frustration, but sometimes they are not worth the headache. For people like that, just be the person you are and shows you like or care about something without looking like an obnoxious twat to others. Other people can be understanding. Like I said before "See a fool, leave a fool".

CrazyGirl17:

Saelune:

CrazyGirl17:
Look.

I haven?t seen the movie yet, but all the shrieking and howling about ?feminism? this and ?sexism? that are not helping. I just want to enjoy a movie without worrying about all this social justice bullshit, but that?s hard when people can?t come to a civilized agreement anymore.

Sorry for coming off as blunt... I just really wanted to get this off my chest. I don?t expect anyone to listen.

This seems an odd stance for you to take. You always come off very progressive.

First off, thank you for noticing! And second... I'm all for social equality, I just HATE the people who take it too far. That kind of extremism ruins it or everyone else and makes people like me look bad. I wish I could slap them, but no, no, I have to be "better than that". Yes, I'm bitter. I hope I explained myself better.

This film is not extremist at all.

CoCage:

CrazyGirl17:
I'm all for social equality, I just HATE the people who take it too far. That kind of extremism ruins it or everyone else and makes people like me look bad. I wish I could slap them, but no, no, I have to be "better than that". Yes, I'm bitter.

I understand the frustration, but sometimes they are not worth the headache. For people like that, just be the person you are and shows you like or care about something without looking like an obnoxious twat to others. Other people can be understanding. Like I said before "See a fool, leave a fool".

Thanks for the advice, I'm just so done with this crap...

Saelune:
This film is not extremist at all.

I was leaning more towards people on the internet. I should probably ignore them, but that's not so easy for me...

Look, can't speak for everyone, and obviously there's some idiots on the Internet, but when I saw the film, there were a lot of males, a lot of females, people laughed a few times, some people clapped at the end, and then it was over. That was it.

While I'm not overly enamored with the film (it's simply average), I think the whole "Brie Larson is a SJW!" crowd is really a storm in a tea cup. Apparently the moviegoing public doesn't care, given that it's bringing in the green.

Hawki:
Look, can't speak for everyone, and obviously there's some idiots on the Internet, but when I saw the film, there were a lot of males, a lot of females, people laughed a few times, some people clapped at the end, and then it was over. That was it.

While I'm not overly enamored with the film (it's simply average), I think the whole "Brie Larson is a SJW!" crowd is really a storm in a tea cup. Apparently the moviegoing public doesn't care, given that it's bringing in the green.

If women had equality, then women in starring roles wouldn't be seen as abnormal.

Saelune:
If women had equality, then women in starring roles wouldn't be seen as abnormal.

Apart from the twats pushing the "SJW" narrative, who's actually seeing it as being abnormal?

Hawki:

Saelune:
If women had equality, then women in starring roles wouldn't be seen as abnormal.

Apart from the twats pushing the "SJW" narrative, who's actually seeing it as being abnormal?

The people bitching about it being SJW. There is a lot of them.

[quote="Saelune" post="18.1056768.24296719"The people bitching about it being SJW. There is a lot of them.[/quote]

Um, you kind of just repeated what I said. I asked, "who, apart from those bitching about it being SJW, are seeing it as abnormal?" You responded "the people bitching about it being SJW."

Anyway, it's kind of a moot point. However many people there are, I think the box office speaks for itself. Generally, people don't go to see movies that they don't want to see because of (insert reason here).

Hawki:

Saelune:
The people bitching about it being SJW. There is a lot of them.

Um, you kind of just repeated what I said. I asked, "who, apart from those bitching about it being SJW, are seeing it as abnormal?" You responded "the people bitching about it being SJW."

Anyway, it's kind of a moot point. However many people there are, I think the box office speaks for itself. Generally, people don't go to see movies that they don't want to see because of (insert reason here).

Because you already gave the answer then told me I couldn't give the answer. Might as well ask me 'Besides 4, what does 2+2 equal?'

Saelune:
Because you already gave the answer then told me I couldn't give the answer. Might as well ask me 'Besides 4, what does 2+2 equal?'

No, I asked you "who, apart from group, is seeing it as abnormal?"

It's not asking "Besides 4, what does 2 and 2 equal," it's asking "aside from 2 and 2, what else can make 4?" Of course, the answer to that is any infinite number of combinations, but you just need to pick one of them.

Hawki:

Saelune:
Because you already gave the answer then told me I couldn't give the answer. Might as well ask me 'Besides 4, what does 2+2 equal?'

No, I asked you "who, apart from group, is seeing it as abnormal?"

It's not asking "Besides 4, what does 2 and 2 equal," it's asking "aside from 2 and 2, what else can make 4?" Of course, the answer to that is any infinite number of combinations, but you just need to pick one of them.

You asked a question as an excuse to deflect my point. Either accept my answer or ask a fairer question.

Plenty of people view women's equality as a bad thing. They are not the minority you seem to think they are.

erttheking:

Johnny Novgorod:

erttheking:

That doesn?t matter. They killed the bad guy. And I gave you other examples of this happening.

Matters to me. I'm not saying the movies are "wrong" for being unlike how I'd prefer them. But in every villain death there's always an element of a "lucky parry" or split-second self-defense that absolves the good guy from actual murder. And if there isn't then it's like blowing up an obstacle or something like that. That's how I knew Thanos wasn't dead when Thor axed him. No MCU villain would get killed in a direct attack from the good guy.

Mark my words: Thanos is gonna die from a fall, some form of sleight of hand, an attack's gonna bounce back, he's gonna asplode from too much powah or some conveniently clean bullshit. At best he'll "let" himself get killed.

They. Planted. A. Bomb. In. His. Brain. I don?t know how to make this any more clear to you. They flat out said they needed to destroy Ego?s brain and Rocket prepped a bomb with the sole purpose of killing Ego. There is no ?lucky parry? or ?split second self defense.? They went in saying that they needed to kill him.

You?re flat out ignoring what?s in front of your face. And you?re arguing past me.

Yes, the bomb, I saw the movie. I still think there's a cozy moral buffer between bombing a planet and killing a person. And to be fair to Marvel the rule about having to kill the bad guy in self-defense precedes the MCU and Disney. It's just so much more noticeable and annoying when the shtick of every one of your characters is "punches/shoots bad guys for a living".

Saelune:
You asked a question as an excuse to deflect my point. Either accept my answer or ask a fairer question.

Person uses deflection by accusing other of deflection.

Yeah, I'm not playing your game.

Here Comes Tomorrow:

CrazyGirl17:

trunkage:
You're going to have to point out when society ever came to a civilized agreement. It's been a long tradition since at least the Magna Carta to force one side to give the other Rights etc. And by force, I mean humiliating as well.

Fair enough. I?m just sick of reality getting in the way of my enjoyment of entertainment.

If it makes you feel any better the feminist stuff in Captain Marvel is eye rolling at best. It doesn't beat you over the head with it. Most of the problems with it stem from Larson just being a bad fit in the role.

The worst is I'm Just a Girl.

Also, when you say bad fit, do you mean similar to the comics?

Hawki:

Saelune:
You asked a question as an excuse to deflect my point. Either accept my answer or ask a fairer question.

Person uses deflection by accusing other of deflection.

Yeah, I'm not playing your game.

Its no game. You said I could not say what the answer was. But that was the answer and was suitable.

trunkage:

Here Comes Tomorrow:

CrazyGirl17:

Fair enough. I?m just sick of reality getting in the way of my enjoyment of entertainment.

If it makes you feel any better the feminist stuff in Captain Marvel is eye rolling at best. It doesn't beat you over the head with it. Most of the problems with it stem from Larson just being a bad fit in the role.

The worst is I'm Just a Girl.

Also, when you say bad fit, do you mean similar to the comics?

I mean a bad fit as in none of her one liners really land and she's not got a great deal of charisma. She's at the same level as Natalie Portman in Thor, shes just there to read lines and get a pay check. Like when I watched Guardians Gamora and Nebula feel like they're characters and the actors are invested, Larson makes Captain Marvel feel like a plot device.

Hawki:
Apart from the twats pushing the "SJW" narrative, who's actually seeing it as being abnormal?

The more interesting question is, "which group?". I'll be the first to admit action-oriented movies with women leads are a minority. But, in this day and age it's hardly a novelty nor particularly revolutionary...and therein lies one of the key problems with which people take issue, namely historical revisionism on the part of those advertising and promoting films like Captain Marvel in the name of feminism.

The only way in which Captain Marvel is a "leading" film, is that it's the first (1.) MCU (2.) film to have a (3.) super-powered woman be the (4.) titular character. That's a comic set of disclaimers. Scarlett Johannson as Black Widow was first-billed in Iron Man 2, Zoe Saldana as Gamora was the first-billed woman super-powered character in Guardians 1, Hayley Atwell as Peggy Carter was the first titular woman in an MCU property, and Krysten Ritter was the first superpowered woman titular character in an MCU property. What Captain Marvel was not, was neither the first woman-led superhero movie based on a Marvel property (which was Elektra if I remember right), nor the first woman-led superhero movie at all.

Same crap happened with Wonder Woman (2017). Not only was Wonder Woman not the first DC woman superhero to get a film, it wasn't even the first Wonder Woman movie.

Sure, the '74 Wonder Woman movie was made-for-TV schlock, and likewise were Supergirl, Catwoman, and Elektra big screen garbage. But, straight talk: out of the entire body of work, how many superhero and comic book movies in general prior to the MCU were actually good? Those four movies being garbage, were normal for the genre. Writing those movies off for being low-budget, made-for-TV, not a tentpole release, nor very good, is actually applying a higher standard for women-led comic book movies opposed to men, which is misogynist as hell.

Which, by the by, Supergirl was the first big-budget, Hollywood-level production standards, woman-led and -titled superhero movie. It was produced by Warner Bros, shot at Pinewood, had a Hollywood cast (Faye Dunaway, Peter O'Toole, Mia Farrow for three), scored by Jerry Goldsmith, and had a budget of $35 million. By comparison, Terminator had a budget of $6.4m, Temple of Doom had a budget of $28m, and Ghostbusters had a budget of $30m.

The same damn revisionist talking points and narratives get trucked out about every year about how "new property" is so new, ground-breaking, glass ceiling-shattering, and revolutionary, and all nay-sayers or critics are simply misogynist trolls, while damn near everything that came before (for good or ill) gets conveniently memory holed. What keeps works like Captain Marvel seen as "abnormal" as it was put, is their constant, largely unjustified, treatment as abnormalities. Not because they are abnormalities at this point, but to market them.

I read somewhere that Chinese audiences found Captain Marvel "too ugly to be a superhero" apparently XD.

I wonder if it's those darned alt right Communists at work again!

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