[POLITICS] If Trump is Innocent, he should prove it

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Leg End:

tstorm823:

Might I suggest to you that you're present distaste for Republicans is sourced directly from Democrats dehumanizing them and associating them with racists and sexists?

...Were you trying to quote Saelune or was that actually for me? If the latter, can you explain?

It was for you. You said you are not, never have been, and likely never will be a Republican, and I believe indicated you were once a Democrat. I took that as a dislike of Republicans, I apologize if that was an incorrect inference. But then you provided a beautiful description of what Democrats have done to the image of the Republican Party over the last 60 years. They took the party that brought this country every semblance of equality we have and repeatedly, deliberately tried to associate it with bigots until people believed it.

Saelune:

Explain to me how Republicans are not racist and actually are pro-equal rights. Do it. I'd love to see you try.

I won't be able to argue Republicans are "the good guys", that's not a reasonable standard. There are, of course, good Democrats and bad Republicans. If ever you managed to split the world between good and bad, the bad would figure out how to associate with the good. That's what's so offputting about political lipservice: if they're trying to sneak their way into the "good" category you immediately start questioning why they're actually awful.

But I can try to argue specifically "not racist" just by arguing against basically every charge of racism. People point to opposition to one civil rights act, but that was the one that flipped straight from "segregation is mandadtory" to "segregation is illegal" without any opportunity for people to decide what they want to do. That's not racism, that's actually essentially liberal. You want the perfect example, the political figure on which a lot of the "party flip" narrative is based is Barry Goldwater. He was a Civil Rights proponent who supported almost all Civil Rights legislation. He was a gay rights advocate later in life. He suggested that people opposed to a woman on the supreme court should be kicked in the nuts. But he thought one Civil Rights Act was federal overreach and bad precedent, and that was enough for Lyndon Johnson (actual racist) to air political ads of the KKK endorsing Goldwater.

People point to things like voter ID laws, comparing them to the literacy tests done in the past to disenfranchise black southerners, but it's a dumb comparison. There are voter id laws in more states than not, and little evidence it effects voter turnout whatsoever, despite the thousands of articles published about how racist voter ID laws are. It's actually on my list of 3 things alongside drugs and abortion where conversations on the internet have the plot twist where someone from a different country suddenly realizes their home country is actually stricter than the supposedly oppressive laws Republicans want. I don't think there's the rampant voter fraud they act like they're preventing, but I also think getting carded any place where you have to prove to be yourself is a lot more reasonable than archaic nonsense like maintaining paper signature books year to year.

People think opposition to welfare programs is based in racism. Not only does this totally disregard the actual Republican perspective that the programs they oppose are poorly formed and actually hurting people, presuming instead that Republicans want to hurt the poor, it also assumes Republicans believe that hurting the poor is a proxy for hurting minorities. It's a really slimy claim on every level.

Of course there are racist Republicans, but a lot of that is deliberately done by Democrats. They repeat over and over that Republicans are racist for a reason: the overwhelming majority of America would rather vote against racists than for them. And if some racists hear that they belong in the Republican Party and join it, that's really just good for Democrats. Racist Republicans are bad for the Republican party, they're just useful idiots being exploited by Democrats to gain political power. I just want to look the racists in the eyes and tell them "every racist thing you say pushes this nation towards socialism" and watch them struggle to figure out what they hate most.

Thaluikhain:

Well, probably a good place to start would be all the racist and anti-equality policies they push for and put in place

Examples of the racist policies? I can agree on some policies of anti-equality(along the lines of things relating to marriage), but I don't see any racist policies.

tstorm823:

It was for you. You said you are not, never have been, and likely never will be a Republican, and I believe indicated you were once a Democrat.

Yup.

I took that as a dislike of Republicans, I apologize if that was an incorrect inference.

It's all good, man.

But then you provided a beautiful description of what Democrats have done to the image of the Republican Party over the last 60 years. They took the party that brought this country every semblance of equality we have and repeatedly, deliberately tried to associate it with bigots until people believed it.

Actually that shot was directly at the Democrats and how they're using those exact tactics against everyone they view as enemies. I have my fair share of issues with the Republican party, but I absolutely loathe what the Democratic party stands for now. To me, it's nothing more than a race baiting collective that demonizes their opponents as less than human and pushes identity politics in order to divide us and strip us of our freedom. I'm utterly sick and tired of it. I don't think there is a single true Liberal left in the whole organization.

Leg End:
it's nothing more than a race baiting collective that demonizes their opponents as less than human and pushes identity politics in order to divide us and strip us of our freedom.

Citation needed.

Leg End:

Thaluikhain:

Well, probably a good place to start would be all the racist and anti-equality policies they push for and put in place

Examples of the racist policies? I can agree on some policies of anti-equality(along the lines of things relating to marriage), but I don't see any racist policies.

.
Democrats were terrible racists. They instituted the Jim Crow laws in the South following the civil war and reconstruction of the south. They kept black people segregated from the general population in education and denied them access to higher education. They forced them out of worker's unions and made employment outside of the plantations system boil down to service (drivers, waiters) and entertainment... They pushed them to the sidelines. The pushed for racist voter-id laws that discriminated against blacks. African-Americans have had high illiteracy rates due to the awful conditions in which they were kept as slaves, and a terrible segregated education system...

I heard that those guys weren't 'real' democrats, so you can't tell that democrats created the most vile set of laws in history... The Nuremberg laws were written with great inspiration from the Jim Crow laws. You could strike out the word "black" with "jew" and find many were essentially the same laws...

Leg End:

Saelune:
Explain to me how Republicans are not racist and actually are pro-equal rights. Do it. I'd love to see you try.

Explain how they are racist and are anti-equal rights. You're the one obsessed with them and saying I am one despite me not being one. Explain your reasoning to the Libertarian. Even if I can spout off a few quips myself.

Actually, I don't even know what I'm doing. I'm arguing with someone who doesn't even understand that my political party is not Republican. But go ahead, say I'm a Republican. It'll totally make me sympathetic to your view.

All either of you are doing is telling me I am wrong for thinking a political party that constantly votes against equal rights and constantly creates laws and policies that attack and hurt minorities is bigoted.

No, I'm telling you that you're supporting a party that makes everything about the color of your skin or the bits dangling or not between your legs. I genuinely care about none of this.

So, without just showing me Trump holding a defiled rainbow flag or some self-hating person with a MAGA hat on, explain to me with actual evidence how Republicans are the good guys.

Saelune, do you see everything in black and white?

I'll wait. I am still waiting for Zontar to explain how Trump is pro-LGBT, but its been...jeez, 2 years since he said he would.

Zontar is kill and has been for that long. He's unlikely to ever come back.

I have done almost nothing but that for over 3 years. When Republicans do nothing but create, defend, and empower oppressive and bigoted laws and policies, and I point it out constantly, but all you do is go 'no u'. Then you try to gaslight me by pretending your side, The Right-Wing (of which Libertarians are also) isn't doing literally that.

You're claiming it is racist to oppose racism. That is what you are doing.

TheIronRuler:

Leg End:

Thaluikhain:

Well, probably a good place to start would be all the racist and anti-equality policies they push for and put in place

Examples of the racist policies? I can agree on some policies of anti-equality(along the lines of things relating to marriage), but I don't see any racist policies.

.
Democrats were terrible racists. They instituted the Jim Crow laws in the South following the civil war and reconstruction of the south. They kept black people segregated from the general population in education and denied them access to higher education. They forced them out of worker's unions and made employment outside of the plantations system boil down to service (drivers, waiters) and entertainment... They pushed them to the sidelines. The pushed for racist voter-id laws that discriminated against blacks. African-Americans have had high illiteracy rates due to the awful conditions in which they were kept as slaves, and a terrible segregated education system...

I heard that those guys weren't 'real' democrats, so you can't tell that democrats created the most vile set of laws in history... The Nuremberg laws were written with great inspiration from the Jim Crow laws. You could strike out the word "black" with "jew" and find many were essentially the same laws...

Then why do Republicans love the Confederate flag?

Leg End:
Actually that shot was directly at the Democrats and how they're using those exact tactics against everyone they view as enemies. I have my fair share of issues with the Republican party, but I absolutely loathe what the Democratic party stands for now. To me, it's nothing more than a race baiting collective that demonizes their opponents as less than human and pushes identity politics in order to divide us and strip us of our freedom. I'm utterly sick and tired of it. I don't think there is a single true Liberal left in the whole organization.

*cough*'Im not a Republican but...'*cough*

tstorm823:

Leg End:

tstorm823:

Might I suggest to you that you're present distaste for Republicans is sourced directly from Democrats dehumanizing them and associating them with racists and sexists?

...Were you trying to quote Saelune or was that actually for me? If the latter, can you explain?

It was for you. You said you are not, never have been, and likely never will be a Republican, and I believe indicated you were once a Democrat. I took that as a dislike of Republicans, I apologize if that was an incorrect inference. But then you provided a beautiful description of what Democrats have done to the image of the Republican Party over the last 60 years. They took the party that brought this country every semblance of equality we have and repeatedly, deliberately tried to associate it with bigots until people believed it.

Saelune:

Explain to me how Republicans are not racist and actually are pro-equal rights. Do it. I'd love to see you try.

I won't be able to argue Republicans are "the good guys", that's not a reasonable standard. There are, of course, good Democrats and bad Republicans. If ever you managed to split the world between good and bad, the bad would figure out how to associate with the good. That's what's so offputting about political lipservice: if they're trying to sneak their way into the "good" category you immediately start questioning why they're actually awful.

But I can try to argue specifically "not racist" just by arguing against basically every charge of racism. People point to opposition to one civil rights act, but that was the one that flipped straight from "segregation is mandadtory" to "segregation is illegal" without any opportunity for people to decide what they want to do. That's not racism, that's actually essentially liberal. You want the perfect example, the political figure on which a lot of the "party flip" narrative is based is Barry Goldwater. He was a Civil Rights proponent who supported almost all Civil Rights legislation. He was a gay rights advocate later in life. He suggested that people opposed to a woman on the supreme court should be kicked in the nuts. But he thought one Civil Rights Act was federal overreach and bad precedent, and that was enough for Lyndon Johnson (actual racist) to air political ads of the KKK endorsing Goldwater.

People point to things like voter ID laws, comparing them to the literacy tests done in the past to disenfranchise black southerners, but it's a dumb comparison. There are voter id laws in more states than not, and little evidence it effects voter turnout whatsoever, despite the thousands of articles published about how racist voter ID laws are. It's actually on my list of 3 things alongside drugs and abortion where conversations on the internet have the plot twist where someone from a different country suddenly realizes their home country is actually stricter than the supposedly oppressive laws Republicans want. I don't think there's the rampant voter fraud they act like they're preventing, but I also think getting carded any place where you have to prove to be yourself is a lot more reasonable than archaic nonsense like maintaining paper signature books year to year.

People think opposition to welfare programs is based in racism. Not only does this totally disregard the actual Republican perspective that the programs they oppose are poorly formed and actually hurting people, presuming instead that Republicans want to hurt the poor, it also assumes Republicans believe that hurting the poor is a proxy for hurting minorities. It's a really slimy claim on every level.

Of course there are racist Republicans, but a lot of that is deliberately done by Democrats. They repeat over and over that Republicans are racist for a reason: the overwhelming majority of America would rather vote against racists than for them. And if some racists hear that they belong in the Republican Party and join it, that's really just good for Democrats. Racist Republicans are bad for the Republican party, they're just useful idiots being exploited by Democrats to gain political power. I just want to look the racists in the eyes and tell them "every racist thing you say pushes this nation towards socialism" and watch them struggle to figure out what they hate most.

Anyone who becomes racist cause people called them racist were always racist and are looking for an excuse.

It is really fucked up how vilified people who actually care about equal rights are.

Leg End:

Thaluikhain:

Well, probably a good place to start would be all the racist and anti-equality policies they push for and put in place

Examples of the racist policies? I can agree on some policies of anti-equality(along the lines of things relating to marriage), but I don't see any racist policies.

Promoting segregation in schools and defunding black schools. This has been a well known and long ongoing issue in the South for Republicans to fight desegregation.

https://www.hoover.org/research/how-republican-desegregated-souths-schools
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/republicans-segregation-schools-racial-white-black-civil-rights-a7633026.html
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/11/cindy-hyde-smith-mississippi-gop-senator-sent-daughter-to-segregation-academy.html
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/14/us/gardendale-alabama-school-desegregation-ruling/index.html

Then of course we have a long History of Republican racial gerrymandering policies:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/05/north-carolina-gerrymandering/527592/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/us-supreme-court-to-take-up-virginia-redistricting-case-on-racial-gerrymandering/2018/11/13/798b5d56-e75c-11e8-b8dc-66cca409c180_story.html
https://www.npr.org/2019/04/25/717241463/federal-court-rules-that-michigans-congressional-map-was-unfairly-gerrymandered
https://newrepublic.com/article/149357/texas-republicans-got-away-racially-discriminatory-electoral-map

Most of the Racist policies are implemented on the local and state level, however, the way they allocate projects, funding and resources, even at the federal level, often are found to adversely affect minorities.

TheIronRuler:

Leg End:

Thaluikhain:

Well, probably a good place to start would be all the racist and anti-equality policies they push for and put in place

Examples of the racist policies? I can agree on some policies of anti-equality(along the lines of things relating to marriage), but I don't see any racist policies.

.
Democrats were terrible racists. They instituted the Jim Crow laws in the South following the civil war and reconstruction of the south. They kept black people segregated from the general population in education and denied them access to higher education. They forced them out of worker's unions and made employment outside of the plantations system boil down to service (drivers, waiters) and entertainment... They pushed them to the sidelines. The pushed for racist voter-id laws that discriminated against blacks. African-Americans have had high illiteracy rates due to the awful conditions in which they were kept as slaves, and a terrible segregated education system...

I heard that those guys weren't 'real' democrats, so you can't tell that democrats created the most vile set of laws in history... The Nuremberg laws were written with great inspiration from the Jim Crow laws. You could strike out the word "black" with "jew" and find many were essentially the same laws...

It isn't that they "weren't real democrats" it is that The people switched parties and platforms. The southern Democrats switched to being Republicans and changed the platform is the issue. The 1950's Republican Platform was pro immigrant, Pro welfare,Higher minimum wage, Pro Union, and equal pay. That is currently the Democrat platform, while republicans now oppose all of those things. It is now the Republicans passing the bills to re segregate schools, not Democrats. The reality is that even though the parties switched, the same geographical regions that promoted racism in the past are still much of the ones doing so today, and they used to be Democrat and are now Republican. It isn't about the "party name" as it is about the people and local custom.

This goes in to more detail about when and how this happened:
https://www.history.com/news/how-the-party-of-lincoln-won-over-the-once-democratic-south

I don't know who to hate more Trump or the people who gave us Trump, the neoliberals in TV who gave Trump so much airtime.

Saelune:
I have done almost nothing but that for over 3 years. When Republicans do nothing but create, defend, and empower oppressive and bigoted laws and policies, and I point it out constantly, but all you do is go 'no u'.

I'm skeptical of your claims because you don't see any of the bigotry you spread as bigotry. That, or you outright do not care, which is the more likely outcome considering previous posts.

Then you try to gaslight me by pretending your side, The Right-Wing (of which Libertarians are also) isn't doing literally that.

So does this mean people can lump you in with the genocidal Communists because you both fall on the left side of a silly compass(of which I apparently fall straight in the middle, and significantly downward)? Just gonna leave you with a buzz phrase: "Fiscally Conservative, Socially Liberal."

You're claiming it is racist to oppose racism. That is what you are doing.

I cast doubt on people supposedly apposing racism when they seem to focus on race above all other things, while nobody else cares.

Saelune:
Then why do Republicans love the Confederate flag?

Southern Pride. North vs. South gives Southerners a boner.

Saelune:
*cough*'Im not a Republican but...'*cough*

"I have my fair share of issues with Communists, but I absolutely loathe the Nazi Party." Is someone saying that a Communist?

Lil devils x:

Promoting segregation in schools and defunding black schools. This has been a well known and long ongoing issue in the South for Republicans to fight desegregation.

https://www.hoover.org/research/how-republican-desegregated-souths-schools
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/republicans-segregation-schools-racial-white-black-civil-rights-a7633026.html
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/11/cindy-hyde-smith-mississippi-gop-senator-sent-daughter-to-segregation-academy.html
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/14/us/gardendale-alabama-school-desegregation-ruling/index.html

Interesting read over time, but in terms of current Repubs, I can see where the sponsor of the bill in the second link is coming from in a non-racist perspective. I've only been able to take a very, very brief glance at what little information exists out there, but I can believe he can support community building without not coming from a racial place about it. Then again, I may just be too optimistic because I think we need to build community as well. It certainly doesn't look too good on first glance with what the community makeups actually are, but well..

Then of course we have a long History of Republican racial gerrymandering policies:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/05/north-carolina-gerrymandering/527592/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/us-supreme-court-to-take-up-virginia-redistricting-case-on-racial-gerrymandering/2018/11/13/798b5d56-e75c-11e8-b8dc-66cca409c180_story.html
https://www.npr.org/2019/04/25/717241463/federal-court-rules-that-michigans-congressional-map-was-unfairly-gerrymandered
https://newrepublic.com/article/149357/texas-republicans-got-away-racially-discriminatory-electoral-map

Now this one is interesting. Gerrymandering is stupid, we can pretty much all agree on that and the third link's title is redundant, but I actually have an alternate theory I find rather amusing on this. What are the odds that it's more heavily tied to Black voters largely voting Democrat, so by trying to split up those lines to favor Republicans, you're then reinforcing it being along racial lines as well, which results in a loop of pushing Black voters further away and Republicans making the problem worse? These are the strange musings of the sleep deprived.

Most of the Racist policies are implemented on the local and state level, however, the way they allocate projects, funding and resources, even at the federal level, often are found to adversely affect minorities.

Some of this I actually believe ties into the above musing, but it's related to statistics on minorities that take advantage of(in the sense of 'using what is there', not abusing the system as it sounds with that phrasing) public programs and the like, and reducing funding to those programs. I don't have the numbers in front of me so I'm just musing on things I've thought of previously.

Gergar12:
I don't know who to hate more Trump or the people who gave us Trump, the neoliberals in TV who gave Trump so much airtime.

Leg End:

Saelune:
I have done almost nothing but that for over 3 years. When Republicans do nothing but create, defend, and empower oppressive and bigoted laws and policies, and I point it out constantly, but all you do is go 'no u'.

I'm skeptical of your claims because you don't see any of the bigotry you spread as bigotry. That, or you outright do not care, which is the more likely outcome considering previous posts.

Then you try to gaslight me by pretending your side, The Right-Wing (of which Libertarians are also) isn't doing literally that.

So does this mean people can lump you in with the genocidal Communists because you both fall on the left side of a silly compass(of which I apparently fall straight in the middle, and significantly downward)? Just gonna leave you with a buzz phrase: "Fiscally Conservative, Socially Liberal."

You're claiming it is racist to oppose racism. That is what you are doing.

I cast doubt on people supposedly apposing racism when they seem to focus on race above all other things, while nobody else cares.

Saelune:
Then why do Republicans love the Confederate flag?

Southern Pride. North vs. South gives Southerners a boner.

Saelune:
*cough*'Im not a Republican but...'*cough*

"I have my fair share of issues with Communists, but I absolutely loathe the Nazi Party." Is someone saying that a Communist?

I think the same about you.

Saying you're socially liberal means nothing when your actual actions support social conservatives. Supporting anti-LGBT people because they share your economic views means YOU are anti-LGBT. Also where are these genocidal communists?

Southern Republicans.

When the choice is between a Communist and a Nazi, then you are supporting a communist. But the choices is pro-White Supremacists ala Trump, or anti-White Supremacists ala Democrats.

Leg End:

Interesting read over time, but in terms of current Repubs, I can see where the sponsor of the bill in the second link is coming from in a non-racist perspective. I've only been able to take a very, very brief glance at what little information exists out there, but I can believe he can support community building without not coming from a racial place about it. Then again, I may just be too optimistic because I think we need to build community as well. It certainly doesn't look too good on first glance with what the community makeups actually are, but well..

That is just it, you have to remember originally the racists were the Southern Democrats who switched to become Republicans due to outrage over desegregation and equal rights. The reason why less minorities vote republican is due to the racism itself. There are many conservative blacks that refuse to vote for Republicans only due to the racism, and if the Republicans would stop the racist behavior, the Black conservatives would actually agree with many of their other policies. Many of the black southern baptists here are some of the most conservative people I know. The gerrymandering is definitely about racism in the south, because outside of that, the minority conservatives are often in agreement with other issues. I think that is often a misunderstanding about conservative districts, we have a large strict Roman Catholic Latino Population and a strong Black Southern Baptist population that are very conservative and that is also why they vote in conservative Democrats for their districts due to Republicans catering to the racists. Republicans actually lose conservative voters by promoting racist polices and rhetoric.

Some of this I actually believe ties into the above musing, but it's related to statistics on minorities that take advantage of(in the sense of 'using what is there', not abusing the system as it sounds with that phrasing) public programs and the like, and reducing funding to those programs. I don't have the numbers in front of me so I'm just musing on things I've thought of previously.

Although due to widespread systemic racism minorities are disproportionately impacted by poverty, the vast majority of those receiving assistance are actually white.

In fact, whites are the biggest beneficiaries when it comes to government safety-net programs like the Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, commonly referred to as welfare.

White people without a college degree ages 18 to 64 are the largest class of adults lifted out of poverty by such programs, according to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. The think tank?s 2017 report stated that 6.2 million working-age whites were lifted above the poverty line in 2014 compared to 2.8 million blacks and 2.4 million Hispanics.

When it comes the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, or SNAP?the initiative formerly known as food stamps?the numbers look similar.

Just over 40 percent of SNAP recipients are white. Another 25.7 percent are black, 10.3 percent are Hispanic, 2.1 percent are Asian and 1.2 percent are Native American, according to a 2015 Department of Agriculture report.

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-welfare-black-white-780252

EDIT: In addition, why would they be okay with supporting white families on Welfare and then it is somehow bad if it is black families? The entire idea of " black welfare queen" is extremely racist and inaccurate.
https://groundswell.org/7-lies-about-welfare-that-many-people-believe-are-fact/

Saelune:
I think the same about you.

Alright then.

Saying you're socially liberal means nothing when your actual actions support social conservatives.

So keeping my growing list of issues with Donald, what social conservatives do I support?

Supporting anti-LGBT people because they share your economic views means YOU are anti-LGBT.

See above.

Also where are these genocidal communists?

Right here. Still got a bunch of idiots promoting the ideas of people responsible.

When the choice is between a Communist and a Nazi, then you are supporting a communist.

So supporting neither isn't an option?

But the choices is pro-White Supremacists ala Trump, or anti-White Supremacists ala Democrats.

Now if only it was actually white supremacy versus anti white supremacy, instead of just being a war over Donald.

Lil devils x:
the vast majority of those receiving assistance are actually white.

Which has been an interesting point with friends I've discussed the topic with, and anyone directly saying that welfare programs being cut is aimed at minorities.

EDIT: In addition, why would they be okay with supporting white families on Welfare and then it is somehow bad if it is black families?

Racial tribalism? Same people that think government getting involved in their matters is bad, but want the same government to enforce their view upon everyone else, particularly certain white nationalists and absolutely white supremacists. I've discussed the subject with actual white nationalists before and it's funny when they say that a welfare state is better when it's being given to their own race. It's even funnier when you have two parties of them argue with each other over said racial welfare.

Leg End:

Saelune:
I think the same about you.

Alright then.

Saying you're socially liberal means nothing when your actual actions support social conservatives.

So keeping my growing list of issues with Donald, what social conservatives do I support?

Supporting anti-LGBT people because they share your economic views means YOU are anti-LGBT.

See above.

Also where are these genocidal communists?

Right here. Still got a bunch of idiots promoting the ideas of people responsible.

When the choice is between a Communist and a Nazi, then you are supporting a communist.

So supporting neither isn't an option?

But the choices is pro-White Supremacists ala Trump, or anti-White Supremacists ala Democrats.

Now if only it was actually white supremacy versus anti white supremacy, instead of just being a war over Donald.

Lil devils x:
the vast majority of those receiving assistance are actually white.

Which has been an interesting point with friends I've discussed the topic with, and anyone directly saying that welfare programs being cut is aimed at minorities.

EDIT: In addition, why would they be okay with supporting white families on Welfare and then it is somehow bad if it is black families?

Racial tribalism? Same people that think government getting involved in their matters is bad, but want the same government to enforce their view upon everyone else, particularly certain white nationalists and absolutely white supremacists. I've discussed the subject with actual white nationalists before and it's funny when they say that a welfare state is better when it's being given to their own race. It's even funnier when you have two parties of them argue with each other over said racial welfare.

What is your 'growing list of issues with Donald'? Your obsession with guns is very much right-wing. That Trump is schizophrenic with both guns and hating Muslims while also selling weapons to Saudi Arabia, doesn't change your extremely right-wing views on guns. You also are decidedly right-wing on immigration, which I find hypocritical to your issues with guns. You don't like the idea of the government coming in and taking your guns, but perfectly fine with them taking families?

And if you support anti-LGBT politicians, you are anti-LGBT. And doing nothing doesnt help LGBT people either. Being pro-LGBT means actually fighting for LGBT rights.

Ah, not in the US and by a bunch of countries who dont ACTUALLY follow communism. Now dont get me wrong, I am not actually pro-communism, but neither is China or Russia. But if you think they are communist because they say they are, well then I guess you also believe North Korea is a Democratic Republic of the People.

If you have two options you have two options. But you're the one pushing communism as the only opposite of Nazis. Im not the one who's default slur against the left is 'commie'.

Donald is a White Supremacist and his reign is pro-white supremacy.

As for your topic with Devil, alot of people are stupid. Alot of people vote against things that benefit themselves because it was framed as spiting racial minorities. It is why healthcare and other socialist policies were cut or stopped. It is why miners now have no jobs AND no health care. Just because racists punished themselves, doesnt mean it wasnt out of racist intent.

Saelune:
What is your 'growing list of issues with Donald'?

Let's just leave it at "growing hypocrisy regarding freedom", or generally not living up to his word on a few things.

Your obsession with guns is very much right-wing.

Boy, those Black Panthers and that Marx sure were Right-Wing, huh?

That Trump is schizophrenic with both guns and hating Muslims while also selling weapons to Saudi Arabia, doesn't change your extremely right-wing views on guns.

Why on Earth would anything he does effect my view on the right to bear arms?

You also are decidedly right-wing on immigration, which I find hypocritical to your issues with guns.

If voting wasn't a thing, I would probably have far less of an issue with people wanting a system where you can just walk right the fuck on in.

You don't like the idea of the government coming in and taking your guns, but perfectly fine with them taking families?

I don't know if I want my response to be something about the nature of firearms with the government and its role everyone seems to like having when it's on their side, or go over my family history and how one of my grandparents came here legally all that time ago. If you have an issue with immigration taking forever, see figure A of this post.

And if you support anti-LGBT politicians, you are anti-LGBT.

Good thing I'm not exactly supporting politicians right now.

And doing nothing doesnt help LGBT people either. Being pro-LGBT means actually fighting for LGBT rights.

I'm for gays marrying and protecting their weed and drugs with guns.

Ah, not in the US and by a bunch of countries who dont ACTUALLY follow communism.

Did you really just use "Not Real Communism"?

But if you think they are communist because they say they are, well then I guess you also believe North Korea is a Democratic Republic of the People.

No, but you think the Democrats are actually Democratic, even after Bernie got screwed because Hilary owns the DNC and he never had a chance.

If you have two options you have two options.

Or you reject such a notion and take your own option, like any human does.

But you're the one pushing communism as the only opposite of Nazis.

I am doing no such thing. I'm using two parties that are considered extreme opposing entities as a comparative example that you can say you have a stronger hatred for one, but that does not mean you have to like the other. Communism and Fascism are both garbage, but at least I can agree with a Communist that the people must be armed.

Im not the one who's default slur against the left is 'commie'.

Nor am I the one, but forum rules and all that.

Donald is a White Supremacist and his reign is pro-white supremacy.

Examples? Please?

As for your topic with Devil, alot of people are stupid. Alot of people vote against things that benefit themselves because it was framed as spiting racial minorities. It is why healthcare and other socialist policies were cut or stopped. It is why miners now have no jobs AND no health care. Just because racists punished themselves, doesnt mean it wasnt out of racist intent.

And some just do it because they think Socialism is a bad.

Leg End:

Saelune:
What is your 'growing list of issues with Donald'?

Let's just leave it at "growing hypocrisy regarding freedom", or generally not living up to his word on a few things.

Your obsession with guns is very much right-wing.

Boy, those Black Panthers and that Marx sure were Right-Wing, huh?

That Trump is schizophrenic with both guns and hating Muslims while also selling weapons to Saudi Arabia, doesn't change your extremely right-wing views on guns.

Why on Earth would anything he does effect my view on the right to bear arms?

You also are decidedly right-wing on immigration, which I find hypocritical to your issues with guns.

If voting wasn't a thing, I would probably have far less of an issue with people wanting a system where you can just walk right the fuck on in.

You don't like the idea of the government coming in and taking your guns, but perfectly fine with them taking families?

I don't know if I want my response to be something about the nature of firearms with the government and its role everyone seems to like having when it's on their side, or go over my family history and how one of my grandparents came here legally all that time ago. If you have an issue with immigration taking forever, see figure A of this post.

And if you support anti-LGBT politicians, you are anti-LGBT.

Good thing I'm not exactly supporting politicians right now.

And doing nothing doesnt help LGBT people either. Being pro-LGBT means actually fighting for LGBT rights.

I'm for gays marrying and protecting their weed and drugs with guns.

Ah, not in the US and by a bunch of countries who dont ACTUALLY follow communism.

Did you really just use "Not Real Communism"?

But if you think they are communist because they say they are, well then I guess you also believe North Korea is a Democratic Republic of the People.

No, but you think the Democrats are actually Democratic, even after Bernie got screwed because Hilary owns the DNC and he never had a chance.

If you have two options you have two options.

Or you reject such a notion and take your own option, like any human does.

But you're the one pushing communism as the only opposite of Nazis.

I am doing no such thing. I'm using two parties that are considered extreme opposing entities as a comparative example that you can say you have a stronger hatred for one, but that does not mean you have to like the other. Communism and Fascism are both garbage, but at least I can agree with a Communist that the people must be armed.

Im not the one who's default slur against the left is 'commie'.

Nor am I the one, but forum rules and all that.

Donald is a White Supremacist and his reign is pro-white supremacy.

Examples? Please?

As for your topic with Devil, alot of people are stupid. Alot of people vote against things that benefit themselves because it was framed as spiting racial minorities. It is why healthcare and other socialist policies were cut or stopped. It is why miners now have no jobs AND no health care. Just because racists punished themselves, doesnt mean it wasnt out of racist intent.

And some just do it because they think Socialism is a bad.

Shit we knew would happen day 1.

It was a right-wing view of theirs, yes.

Because you care more about guns than human equality.

Voting is important. Not that Trump understands that.

Trump's mother and 1st and 3rd wife are immigrants. It doesnt make him pro-immigration. Pointing to your family being immigrants only makes you look worse for not caring.

If its between a Republican for guns or a Democrat for LGBT rights, which do you pick?

If you haven't realized, I don't believe something is what they say they are when their actual actions and views conflict with that. Just like how the US isn't actually a Democracy and barely even a Republic at this point.

If that is true, it shouldn't have happened. But it doesn't justify the whole country putting in a white-supremacist fascist with less votes. And you dont actually care about Bernie Sanders.

Its funny, so many gun nuts on the Right who claim to want their guns incase they need to overthrow the government, and yet they hate the idea of people opposing Trump and Republicans. I bet they would sing a different tune if the Left started echoing their previous gun-toting rhetoric.

Right-wingers like to default to communist as their response to Nazi. It is a poor one though.

Forum rules also say bigotry is not allowed. Hasnt stoppped much though.

Having white supremacists in his cabinet such as Steve Bannon, his actions and stances on Immigrants and blacks, his refusal to condemn all the white supremacists who fucking love him! White Supremacists also consider Trump one of them and Trump doesnt stop that.

Remember, Trump thinks Nazis who murder a woman with their car are 'equal' to people who oppose Nazis.

Saelune:
Shit we knew would happen day 1.

I was expecting a lot worse, surprisingly. He's followed through on a few things, but I'm still waiting for the wall and immigration reform. Guess we'll see if that gets done soon enough.

It was a right-wing view of theirs, yes.

So, you're basically saying that wanting to have the means to protect you and your loved ones from tyranny, and the means to fight on equal footing as your oppressors is Right-Wing? I've heard it all now. You're doing a disservice to those on the Left that actually believe in the right to bear arms. It's not a spectrum stance.

Because you care more about guns than human equality.

I believe people being armed enforces that equality, because armed queers/trans/racial minorities don't get bashed. I'd rather have the oppressed have the means to fight their oppressors than have their oppressors have a monopoly on arms. I'm surprised you don't understand that a person could want to be armed to protect themselves from those who would harm them.

Voting is important. Not that Trump understands that.

Tyranny of the Majority, but thankfully we're not a straight Democracy.

Trump's mother and 1st and 3rd wife are immigrants. It doesnt make him pro-immigration. Pointing to your family being immigrants only makes you look worse for not caring.

It means I care that someone comes here legally, hence why I want immigration reform.

If its between a Republican for guns or a Democrat for LGBT rights, which do you pick?

Discounting an option to reject that shit scenario? After a lot of thinking that would be too long to just throw here, I'd probably vote the former, because the latter goes back to the position above and would have people remain defenseless, while having the means to protect yourself ensures you can enforce your innate rights as a human being, and actually protect them. That, and I see the Dems as just using us as pet minorities so we'll vote for them. There's no real care there. I'd sooner believe Dick Cheney on supporting gay rights. (Bit of a history on that last one.)

If you haven't realized, I don't believe something is what they say they are when their actual actions and views conflict with that. Just like how the US isn't actually a Democracy and barely even a Republic at this point.

We're not a straight Democracy, and I don't believe the Democrats to at all be Democratic when their actions speak otherwise to me.

If that is true, it shouldn't have happened.

It did, and you're absolutely right.

But it doesn't justify the whole country putting in a white-supremacist fascist with less votes.

Devaluing the severity of White-Supremacist Fascism by applying it where it does not exist.

And you dont actually care about Bernie Sanders.

Liked him a lot more than Hillary, that's for damn sure. I'd sit down and have a talk with him before I'd even be in the same city as Clinton. Hell, I actually would like to speak with the guy, one on one. I don't agree with the majority of his viewpoints, but I can have a solid conversation with him. Too bad he sold out and backed Hillary, which made me lose a lot of respect for him, because he was backing what he was against.

Its funny, so many gun nuts on the Right who claim to want their guns incase they need to overthrow the government, and yet they hate the idea of people opposing Trump and Republicans.

That, or they're just annoyed that it amounts to a tempter tantrum and crying wolf. The Democrats and the MSM only have themselves to blame for that.

I bet they would sing a different tune if the Left started echoing their previous gun-toting rhetoric.

Who doesn't like everyone being armed? An armed society is a polite society.

Right-wingers like to default to communist as their response to Nazi. It is a poor one though.

I'unno. Both killed a shitload of people, and both are ass and extremes. Sounds about right to me.

Having white supremacists in his cabinet such as Steve Bannon,

Who got the boot two years ago, didn't he?

his actions and stances on Immigrants and blacks,

Explain the actions and stances on Blacks please?

his refusal to condemn all the white supremacists who fucking love him!

Pretty sure he did that.

White Supremacists also consider Trump one of them and Trump doesnt stop that.

And they also consider him a Jew sympathizer and an agent of ZOG and Israel. There is absolutely no true consensus on him among White Nationalists or White Supremacists, just like there is no true consensus on him at all. He's a divisive figure.

Remember, Trump thinks Nazis who murder a woman with their car are 'equal' to people who oppose Nazis.

You mean people like the asshole with the flamethrower at the Unite The Right rally that was 'fighting Nazis'? Yeah, no. That only one person died was a miracle, and both sides resorted to violence, lynching, and general asshattery. Start shit, get hit, and anyone that engages in those acts can go to hell. Bunch of fucking violent savages.

tstorm823:
[quote="Leg End" post="18.1056851.24304936"][quote="tstorm823" post="18.1056851.24304930"]

Of course there are racist Republicans, but a lot of that is deliberately done by Democrats. They repeat over and over that Republicans are racist for a reason: the overwhelming majority of America would rather vote against racists than for them. And if some racists hear that they belong in the Republican Party and join it, that's really just good for Democrats. Racist Republicans are bad for the Republican party, they're just useful idiots being exploited by Democrats to gain political power. I just want to look the racists in the eyes and tell them "every racist thing you say pushes this nation towards socialism" and watch them struggle to figure out what they hate most.

No, Republicans have destroyed their public image by their own hands because of their extreme religious beliefs and a selfish want to be the one calling the shots. America should be a United Country were we work out our differences together and not destroy each other in a us vs them scenario.

Years and years of RWing hate radio with hosts like Rush Limbaugh, Alex Jones, Ann Coulter, Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity constantly spreading lies against socialism, diversity, environment, activists, Feminism, Soros and the Democratic party have divided us as a country greatly. Even when the Democratic party tries to work with the other side the Repubs do everything in their power to impede any bill or idea that has to do with anything above. The Dems do have some blame in dividing the Country sure, but if you look past the propaganda and lies they generally want to improve the general wellbeing of everyone in the Country. They want to give a voice to the people who never really had a chance to speak before, but Rwingers and some Libertarians want to blow it out of proportion and say "Omg, Forced Diversity" "Oh Great more Feminism" etc

The Right in office right now is only fueling the hate by only really serving one side of the country and dismissing the needs of the majority. If only we could one day get rid of all these crooked Rwingers in office and on radio and the corporate Democratic elite we could have a working country again.

Here are just a few subreddits and articles documenting the Rights extreme religious and racist views.

https://www.politico.com/story/2010/10/the-gops-no-compromise-pledge-044311
https://www.vox.com/2019/5/17/18628265/alabama-abortion-law-missouri-georgia-roe-v-wade
https://twitter.com/KrangTNelson/status/1129402568013176832?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1129402568013176832&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwokesloth.com%2Fright-wing-political-cartoon-alabama%2Fmasha%2F
https://www.wgbh.org/news/2017/03/15/politics-government/major-new-study-shows-political-polarization-mainly-right-wing
https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/8xzm5g/here-are-the-gops-secret-talking-points-defending-alabamas-abortion-law
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/01/homegrown-terrorists-2018-were-almost-all-right-wing/581284/
https://www.reddit.com/r/AgainstHateSubreddits/
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/
https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/445543-jon-voight-declares-trump-the-greatest-president-since-lincoln

Trump Showing his racism
https://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/article/2016/jun/08/donald-trumps-racial-comments-about-judge-trump-un/
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/feb/17/central-park-five-donald-trump-jogger-rape-case-new-york
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/06/trump-racism-comments/588067/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2018/08/14/times-president-trump-comments-called-racist/985438002/

On another note I kind of like this new term for Libertarian I found on Reddit.

"Propertarians always put objects and profits over the wellbeing of people and society. Propertarians are closely related to theocrats - as a subset of Authoritarians, Propertarians think that law should only protect property one already has and enable those with property to have power over those who have less.
Aka: Randism.
This is why Propertrians always back fascists and have never, ever, fought for social justice."

image

Leg End:

Saelune:
Shit we knew would happen day 1.

I was expecting a lot worse, surprisingly. He's followed through on a few things, but I'm still waiting for the wall and immigration reform. Guess we'll see if that gets done soon enough.

It was a right-wing view of theirs, yes.

So, you're basically saying that wanting to have the means to protect you and your loved ones from tyranny, and the means to fight on equal footing as your oppressors is Right-Wing? I've heard it all now. You're doing a disservice to those on the Left that actually believe in the right to bear arms. It's not a spectrum stance.

Because you care more about guns than human equality.

I believe people being armed enforces that equality, because armed queers/trans/racial minorities don't get bashed. I'd rather have the oppressed have the means to fight their oppressors than have their oppressors have a monopoly on arms. I'm surprised you don't understand that a person could want to be armed to protect themselves from those who would harm them.

Voting is important. Not that Trump understands that.

Tyranny of the Majority, but thankfully we're not a straight Democracy.

Trump's mother and 1st and 3rd wife are immigrants. It doesnt make him pro-immigration. Pointing to your family being immigrants only makes you look worse for not caring.

It means I care that someone comes here legally, hence why I want immigration reform.

If its between a Republican for guns or a Democrat for LGBT rights, which do you pick?

Discounting an option to reject that shit scenario? After a lot of thinking that would be too long to just throw here, I'd probably vote the former, because the latter goes back to the position above and would have people remain defenseless, while having the means to protect yourself ensures you can enforce your innate rights as a human being, and actually protect them. That, and I see the Dems as just using us as pet minorities so we'll vote for them. There's no real care there. I'd sooner believe Dick Cheney on supporting gay rights. (Bit of a history on that last one.)

If you haven't realized, I don't believe something is what they say they are when their actual actions and views conflict with that. Just like how the US isn't actually a Democracy and barely even a Republic at this point.

We're not a straight Democracy, and I don't believe the Democrats to at all be Democratic when their actions speak otherwise to me.

If that is true, it shouldn't have happened.

It did, and you're absolutely right.

But it doesn't justify the whole country putting in a white-supremacist fascist with less votes.

Devaluing the severity of White-Supremacist Fascism by applying it where it does not exist.

And you dont actually care about Bernie Sanders.

Liked him a lot more than Hillary, that's for damn sure. I'd sit down and have a talk with him before I'd even be in the same city as Clinton. Hell, I actually would like to speak with the guy, one on one. I don't agree with the majority of his viewpoints, but I can have a solid conversation with him. Too bad he sold out and backed Hillary, which made me lose a lot of respect for him, because he was backing what he was against.

Its funny, so many gun nuts on the Right who claim to want their guns incase they need to overthrow the government, and yet they hate the idea of people opposing Trump and Republicans.

That, or they're just annoyed that it amounts to a tempter tantrum and crying wolf. The Democrats and the MSM only have themselves to blame for that.

I bet they would sing a different tune if the Left started echoing their previous gun-toting rhetoric.

Who doesn't like everyone being armed? An armed society is a polite society.

Right-wingers like to default to communist as their response to Nazi. It is a poor one though.

I'unno. Both killed a shitload of people, and both are ass and extremes. Sounds about right to me.

Having white supremacists in his cabinet such as Steve Bannon,

Who got the boot two years ago, didn't he?

his actions and stances on Immigrants and blacks,

Explain the actions and stances on Blacks please?

his refusal to condemn all the white supremacists who fucking love him!

Pretty sure he did that.

White Supremacists also consider Trump one of them and Trump doesnt stop that.

And they also consider him a Jew sympathizer and an agent of ZOG and Israel. There is absolutely no true consensus on him among White Nationalists or White Supremacists, just like there is no true consensus on him at all. He's a divisive figure.

Remember, Trump thinks Nazis who murder a woman with their car are 'equal' to people who oppose Nazis.

You mean people like the asshole with the flamethrower at the Unite The Right rally that was 'fighting Nazis'? Yeah, no. That only one person died was a miracle, and both sides resorted to violence, lynching, and general asshattery. Start shit, get hit, and anyone that engages in those acts can go to hell. Bunch of fucking violent savages.

So are you saying it is ok to respond to oppression with violence in general or just with guns? Is punching Nazis ok to you, or just shooting Nazis?

Being pro-gun clearly means being pro-violence. I hope you realize that. Being pro-gun means you advocate shooting people.

Also citation needed on that flamethrower guy.

Saelune:

Also citation needed on that flamethrower guy.

Pretty sure that's referring to this:

To recap, one of the counterprotestors had improvised a torch/flawmethrower with a lighter and a can of aerosol (or something similar) and sprayed it within a few feet of the marching ralliers. Of course, a few moments later one of the ralliers (Richard Preston, who would later identify himself as a KKK imperial wizard) discharged his pistol in their general direction.

Perhaps notably in this regard, there's a bit of a tendency among the Right to characterize the counterprotestor as 'trying to set people on fire', which is...an exaggeration to say the least. The torch is blown in the direction of the ralliers, but as we can see in the video, there's no effort to pursue anyone. It's being used as an almost stationary fixture. Dumb thing to do towards an armed march? Sure. But even so that's not the attempted arson that Preston's supporters try to paint it as.

Saelune:

Leg End:
Actually that shot was directly at the Democrats and how they're using those exact tactics against everyone they view as enemies. I have my fair share of issues with the Republican party, but I absolutely loathe what the Democratic party stands for now. To me, it's nothing more than a race baiting collective that demonizes their opponents as less than human and pushes identity politics in order to divide us and strip us of our freedom. I'm utterly sick and tired of it. I don't think there is a single true Liberal left in the whole organization.

*cough*'Im not a Republican but...'*cough*

You realize he's a Libertarian, right? And that the core of his opposition to Democrats is their failure to actually be liberal, and the original sense of the word?

Saelune:
It is really fucked up how vilified people who actually care about equal rights are.

Right, care about equal rights, just not the rights of the accused, the right to bear arms, or the rights of anyone who isn't "oppressed" according to the logic of intersectionality.

Saelune:

Remember, Trump thinks Nazis who murder a woman with their car are 'equal' to people who oppose Nazis.

And you think beating protesters you oppose with a bike lock (see Eric Clanton) or other improvised bludgeons (see BAMN and other similar groups) is absolutely fine , even desirable.

Again, I wouldn't mind the "punching Nazis" talk nearly as much if "Nazis" were accurately and narrowly targeted, doubly so if we were talking abut doing it in self defense, and not just going out to assault people you disagree with on the basis that you disagree with them and therefore it's OK to do violence to them. Instead you have people getting attacked for wearing a MAGA hat (we're well into the double digits for these incidents this year), one guy beaten by a group because he didn't know WTF they meant when they asked him if he was proud, that sort of thing. And let's not forget that the number of things that are "white supremacy" keeps expanding at a painful rate and in often bizarre ways - celebrating the 4th of July, Milk, Veganism, even owning a dog - https://twitter.com/thehipsterrebbe/status/1119244807438778368?s=21 .

Personally, I want about half a dozen well known white supremacists to literally attach an emoji to their social media profiles and rotate which one every two weeks, see if we can get "using emojis" itself to become white supremacy. =p

Saelune:

Also citation needed on that flamethrower guy.

As far as the flamethrower guy, https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-charlottesville-corey-long20171014-story.html

You remember the story that went around about the "Nazi" at that rally threatening a black man with a gun before discharging it into the ground? That was the man he was threatening, and he drew the gun and threatened him in response to what he was doing in that photo. The protesters on he stairs in that photo were in the process of egress from Lee Park, several had left quietly before he started with the makeshift flamethrower. If you go hunting there's a longer video online that shows everything.

Schadrach:

Saelune:

Leg End:
Actually that shot was directly at the Democrats and how they're using those exact tactics against everyone they view as enemies. I have my fair share of issues with the Republican party, but I absolutely loathe what the Democratic party stands for now. To me, it's nothing more than a race baiting collective that demonizes their opponents as less than human and pushes identity politics in order to divide us and strip us of our freedom. I'm utterly sick and tired of it. I don't think there is a single true Liberal left in the whole organization.

*cough*'Im not a Republican but...'*cough*

You realize he's a Libertarian, right? And that the core of his opposition to Democrats is their failure to actually be liberal, and the original sense of the word?

Saelune:
It is really fucked up how vilified people who actually care about equal rights are.

Right, care about equal rights, just not the rights of the accused, the right to bear arms, or the rights of anyone who isn't "oppressed" according to the logic of intersectionality.

Saelune:

Remember, Trump thinks Nazis who murder a woman with their car are 'equal' to people who oppose Nazis.

And you think beating protesters you oppose with a bike lock (see Eric Clanton) or other improvised bludgeons (see BAMN and other similar groups) is absolutely fine , even desirable.

Again, I wouldn't mind the "punching Nazis" talk nearly as much if "Nazis" were accurately and narrowly targeted, doubly so if we were talking abut doing it in self defense, and not just going out to assault people you disagree with on the basis that you disagree with them and therefore it's OK to do violence to them. Instead you have people getting attacked for wearing a MAGA hat (we're well into the double digits for these incidents this year), one guy beaten by a group because he didn't know WTF they meant when they asked him if he was proud, that sort of thing. And let's not forget that the number of things that are "white supremacy" keeps expanding at a painful rate and in often bizarre ways - celebrating the 4th of July, Milk, Veganism, even owning a dog - https://twitter.com/thehipsterrebbe/status/1119244807438778368?s=21 .

Personally, I want about half a dozen well known white supremacists to literally attach an emoji to their social media profiles and rotate which one every two weeks, see if we can get "using emojis" itself to become white supremacy. =p

Saelune:

Also citation needed on that flamethrower guy.

As far as the flamethrower guy, https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-charlottesville-corey-long20171014-story.html

You remember the story that went around about the "Nazi" at that rally threatening a black man with a gun before discharging it into the ground? That was the man he was threatening, and he drew the gun and threatened him in response to what he was doing in that photo. The protesters on he stairs in that photo were in the process of egress from Lee Park, several had left quietly before he started with the makeshift flamethrower. If you go hunting there's a longer video online that shows everything.

You realize a major point I often have to make is how a lot of people claim to be 'Not a Republican' but then say a bunch of Right-Wing Republican stuff? That's my whole point here too. Libertarians are just Republicans who don't want to admit it. Leg End is super Right-Wing, even more than you are.

I think people should have equal rights, as in people are treated equal based on their actions. A black person and a white person who do the same thing should be treated the same for it. I dont limit my opposition to gun rights to just the white gun nuts. I think gun restriction needs to be equally and thuroughly enforced.

You dont even like it when I call people who call themselves Nazis a Nazi. It is you who applies the label so liberally. I use it to refer to White Supremacists. Unless you know a bunch of KKK members who thought Hitler went too far that I am unaware of.

If you do all the White Supremacist things, dont be surprised when people think you're a White Supremacist.

So you're fine with that guy shooting his gun then.

Asita:
Dumb thing to do towards an armed march? Sure.

Dumb thing to do towards a march that was in the process of leaving the park they were marching at and dispersing, doing so at the exit from the park? Even more so.

Schadrach:

Asita:
Dumb thing to do towards an armed march? Sure.

Dumb thing to do towards a march that was in the process of leaving the park they were marching at and dispersing, doing so at the exit from the park? Even more so.

Joining a White Supremacist Rally is dumb. You're defending these literal White Supremacists. I didn't call them that, they called themselves that.

Saelune:

Schadrach:

Asita:
Dumb thing to do towards an armed march? Sure.

Dumb thing to do towards a march that was in the process of leaving the park they were marching at and dispersing, doing so at the exit from the park? Even more so.

Joining a White Supremacist Rally is dumb. You're defending these literal White Supremacists. I didn't call them that, they called themselves that.

See, officer, normally it'd be bad to key someone's car but that was a Mercedes and we all know the Nazis drove Mercedes so that makes it okay.

Abomination:

Saelune:

Schadrach:

Dumb thing to do towards a march that was in the process of leaving the park they were marching at and dispersing, doing so at the exit from the park? Even more so.

Joining a White Supremacist Rally is dumb. You're defending these literal White Supremacists. I didn't call them that, they called themselves that.

See, officer, normally it'd be bad to key someone's car but that was a Mercedes and we all know the Nazis drove Mercedes so that makes it okay.

That analogy doesn't work and you know it. But thanks for proving that even when I call self-admitted White Supremacists a White Supremacist, you will take issue with it.

lol

Marik2:
lol

What are we supposed to laugh at here?

Saelune:
Joining a White Supremacist Rally is dumb. You're defending these literal White Supremacists. I didn't call them that, they called themselves that.

Oh, no, I'm not supporting the Unite the Right protesters (though I do support them having the same right to protest with the same limitations as literally everyone else, with most of the lines for that having been drawn by the ACLU defending the KKK's 1st Amendment rights, interestingly enough), I'm just saying that pointing a makeshift flamethrower at them when they're trying to leave their event and disperse is...not a good plan in general.

Saelune:
Libertarians are just Republicans who don't want to admit it.

They actually diverge from Republicans on a whole lot of issues, but tend to end up voting Republican more often than not. Usually because the Democrat candidate is even further from what they want and if it's a choice between bad and worse...

Imagine I said that anyone who didn't express a specific sexual preference for senior citizens was just a pedophile who doesn't want to admit it. That's kinda what you're doing there. I'm just being more absurd in my example of a false dichotomy.

Saelune:
A black person and a white person who do the same thing should be treated the same for it.

What about a man and a woman? If we're talking criminal justice, does that mean you believe men should be treated more softly by the justice system or that women should be treated more harshly?

Saelune:
So you're fine with that guy shooting his gun then.

No, I'm not. But then I'm not the one promoting political violence.

On the upside, both of them were arrested for what they did there - the guy with the improvised flamethrower was charged with disorderly conduct for the flamethrower (and assault and battery for another incident during the protest) and the guy with the gun with discharging a firearm within 1,000 feet of a school. That article I linked mentioned the charges if you read it.

Schadrach:

Saelune:
Joining a White Supremacist Rally is dumb. You're defending these literal White Supremacists. I didn't call them that, they called themselves that.

Oh, no, I'm not supporting the Unite the Right protesters (though I do support them having the same right to protest with the same limitations as literally everyone else, with most of the lines for that having been drawn by the ACLU defending the KKK's 1st Amendment rights, interestingly enough), I'm just saying that pointing a makeshift flamethrower at them when they're trying to leave their event and disperse is...not a good plan in general.

Saelune:
Libertarians are just Republicans who don't want to admit it.

They actually diverge from Republicans on a whole lot of issues, but tend to end up voting Republican more often than not. Usually because the Democrat candidate is even further from what they want and if it's a choice between bad and worse...

Imagine I said that anyone who didn't express a specific sexual preference for senior citizens was just a pedophile who doesn't want to admit it. That's kinda what you're doing there. I'm just being more absurd in my example of a false dichotomy.

Saelune:
A black person and a white person who do the same thing should be treated the same for it.

What about a man and a woman? If we're talking criminal justice, does that mean you believe men should be treated more softly by the justice system or that women should be treated more harshly?

Saelune:
So you're fine with that guy shooting his gun then.

No, I'm not. But then I'm not the one promoting political violence.

On the upside, both of them were arrested for what they did there - the guy with the improvised flamethrower was charged with disorderly conduct for the flamethrower (and assault and battery for another incident during the protest) and the guy with the gun with discharging a firearm within 1,000 feet of a school. That article I linked mentioned the charges if you read it.

The ACLU fucked up and are a major reason why things are as bad as they are now. Terrorists like the KKK do not deserve the right to spread their terrorism.

Letting terrorists hold rallies is not a good plan.

You are what you vote for. And Libertarians vote for Republicans. Your analogy here does not work.

I think both should be treated FAIRLY by the justice system. I don't think either actually are treated fair enough.

You are defending the violence of the Right by never actually condemning them and putting all your work into condemning the left for far lesser issues. By the way, a makeshift flamethrower is makeshift. That other guy wasn't using a makeshift gun.

You keep doing two things, defending Trump and defending White Supremacists. You claim to not support either, but you never do anything to actually prove that.

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