[POLITICS] Brutal dictatorship protects Guaido from angry mob

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Guaido, of course, has been barred from public office for a period of 15 years after having fraudulently declared himself president of Venezuela and begging the United States to overthrow the legitimate government.

Naturally, the US mainstream media has uniformly supported the narrative that Guaido's attempted coup is both constitutionally and morally justified. And they've gone so far as to misrepresent his politics, which isn't terribly out of the ordinary for US reporting on foreign countries. The United States supports the right-wing section of the opposition's attempted coup in Venezuela because the right-wing opposition wants to privatize public services, oil production, and so on and so forth. The interest is financial but is presented fraudulently as humanitarian.

The 'dictatorship' of Maduro is seen here protecting Guaido from working class Venezuelans that politicians like Marco Rubio, Nancy Pelosi, John Cornyn, Donald Trump and Debbie Wasserman-Schultz in the United States cry their crocodile tears over. Venezuelans are broadly outraged at US meddling in their country, but we in the US hardly hear of it; we do hear how it'll be great that US companies can get their hands on the largest oil reserves in the world. We are expected to buy that the United States has a humanitarian concern in Venezuela even while it inflicts worse and worse sanctions and demands that other countries stop helping Venezuela. Meanwhile, there is an ongoing investigation into Guaido's involvement in sabotaging Venezuela's power grid. Guaido, for his part, has said that as soon as he is installed as leader, the electrical blackouts will come to an end.

Cool story. Do you have anything else from RT? Or, should I get my news directly from Putin himself?

madwarper:
Cool story. Do you have anything else from RT? Or, should I get my news directly from Putin himself?

.
RT is the most trusted news organization in the world (rated by aspiring communists looking to blame the US and capitalism for the world's problems). It shows topics that the anglophone mainstream media doesn't want to touch. RT together with Al-Jazeera are the foremost protectors of free-speech and the fight against the capitalist swine. The nations that sponsor these brave media outlets, Russia and Qatar, are the freest and happiest places on earth, who boast great socialist values such as equality for all, acceptance of all people and a trustworthy and incorruptible political class - all the things that make you want to go and move there to start a new life. They are merely trying to portray Venezuela as it truly is - a wonderful place that was brought low by the US and its allies. The real villains in this story are the people who decided to sell oil cheaper, thus reducing Venezuela's income (95% of its exports were oil) and preventing it from keeping its socialist worker's paradise. The evil Venezuelan so-called refugees are actually mostly criminals and capitalists that fled the country because they were stopped by the new socialist regime - an absolute truth which the OP wholeheartedly supports.

...This happens sometimes. It's nice to catch up on news from the other side of the world. Gives off a fresh new feeling to world events. It makes you realize that there are people out there who wholeheartedly take this kind of reporting as the absolute truth and good journalism. Russia is colluding with the hearts of the western world's communists, to bring them closer to true justice for all. Except for the homosexuals, but it's ok in Chechnya because there aren't any gays there, their president said.

He didn't even link to RT. Am I missing something?

Silvanus:
He didn't even link to RT. Am I missing something?

When R&P existed, they defended RT, particularly it's Western offices, were almost as good as some Western news companies. Some people took issue with this, particularly as it's partially Kremlin run.

So, apparently, now any claims by Seanchaidh can be dismissed as propaganda. Becuase news corporations like Fox or NYT are so impartial

TheIronRuler:

madwarper:
Cool story. Do you have anything else from RT? Or, should I get my news directly from Putin himself?

.
RT is the most trusted news organization in the world (rated by aspiring communists looking to blame the US and capitalism for the world's problems). It shows topics that the anglophone mainstream media doesn't want to touch. RT together with Al-Jazeera are the foremost protectors of free-speech and the fight against the capitalist swine. The nations that sponsor these brave media outlets, Russia and Qatar, are the freest and happiest places on earth, who boast great socialist values such as equality for all, acceptance of all people and a trustworthy and incorruptible political class - all the things that make you want to go and move there to start a new life. They are merely trying to portray Venezuela as it truly is - a wonderful place that was brought low by the US and its allies. The real villains in this story are the people who decided to sell oil cheaper, thus reducing Venezuela's income (95% of its exports were oil) and preventing it from keeping its socialist worker's paradise. The evil Venezuelan so-called refugees are actually mostly criminals and capitalists that fled the country because they were stopped by the new socialist regime - an absolute truth which the OP wholeheartedly supports.

...This happens sometimes. It's nice to catch up on news from the other side of the world. Gives off a fresh new feeling to world events. It makes you realize that there are people out there who wholeheartedly take this kind of reporting as the absolute truth and good journalism. Russia is colluding with the hearts of the western world's communists, to bring them closer to true justice for all. Except for the homosexuals, but it's ok in Chechnya because there aren't any gays there, their president said.

Well, Comunionists were some of the first people decriminalising homosexuality. Under Lenin, they were free to do what they wanted. Stalin, in 1933, recrimalised it. Five years prison. Which isn't much different from what Capitalist countries did at the same time. My country, a Cspitlist one, only decriminalised homosexuality in 1987. And this doesn't excuse current Communist countries like China from being apathetic (not punishing but definitely not allowing it to be prominent like we do in the West.) it's been 30 years. Come on guys.

It's why McCarthy could blame homosexuals as being Communionist. There are a wide variety of Commuionists and large portions of them are pro-homosexuals. This was used against Americans.

Take into account the Communists siding with Socialists in The Weimar Republic to decriminalise homosexuality, at least until the Nazis took over.

Plus, I wouldn't call Putin Communionist. He's a crony Capitalist.

Silvanus:
He didn't even link to RT. Am I missing something?

Well he linked to Max Blumenthal who is a notoriously pro-russian journalist.

In discussions surrounding Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections, Blumenthal denied Russia's involvement and said that the use of such a narrative prevented the Democratic Party in the United States from being able to "do anything progressive".[49] Peter Beinart wrote in The Atlantic that Blumenthal and Glenn Greenwald "minimize Russia?s election meddling to oppose what they see as a new Cold War."[50]

Blumenthal has publicly supported the work of RT, the Russian-funded television network. In 2015, Blumenthal attended RT's 10 Years On Air anniversary party beside then-Lieutenant General Michael Flynn of the United States and English politician Ken Livingstone.[51][52][53] New Politics, a socialist journal, stated that "Max Blumenthal is ... found almost every week defending Russian foreign policy on platforms such as RT and Sputnik", and that he has defended Russia's role in the Syrian Civil War.[52] Janine di Giovanni, fellow of the Council on Foreign Relations, described Blumenthal as being part of the website 21st Century Wire?which she compared to InfoWars?stating that his work and affiliated group is "spread by a spectrum of far-left, anti-West conspiracy theorists; anti-Semites; supporters of Russia, Iran, and Hezbollah; libertarians; and far-right groups".[54]

In regards to Ukraine, the head of the Polish left-wing intellectual group Krytyka Polityczna, Sławomir Sierakowski, included Blumenthal on his list of "Putin?s Useful Idiots", stating his work "distorts" the events of Euromaidan.[55] The Ukrainian fact-checking organization StopFake describes Blumenthal as a "pro-Russia American journalist" who is used by Russia to "spread its propaganda message".[56]

However his record on Venezuela is better.

On 10 March, The New York Times wrote that their reconstruction using both public information and previously unpublished video evidence refuted the widespread claim?bolstered by edited footage supplied by the Colombian government and statements by Venezuelan opposition leaders?that the use of tear gas by Maduro's forces had caused the trucks to burn and "suggest[ed] that a Molotov cocktail thrown by an antigovernment protester was the most likely trigger for the blaze".[60] Glenn Greenwald in The Intercept commented that this report vindicated Blumenthal's analysis and that of other independent journalists who had reached the same conclusion three weeks earlier but were not credited by The New York Times.[57]

And Max only linked to the original news story anyway, which I see no reason to question.

trunkage:

Well, Comunionists were some of the first people decriminalising homosexuality. Under Lenin, they were free to do what they wanted. Stalin, in 1933, recrimalised it. Five years prison. Which isn't much different from what Capitalist countries did at the same time. My country, a Cspitlist one, only decriminalised homosexuality in 1987. And this doesn't excuse current Communist countries like China from being apathetic (not punishing but definitely not allowing it to be prominent like we do in the West.) it's been 30 years. Come on guys.

It's why McCarthy could blame homosexuals as being Communionist. There are a wide variety of Commuionists and large portions of them are pro-homosexuals. This was used against Americans.

Take into account the Communists siding with Socialists in The Weimar Republic to decriminalise homosexuality, at least until the Nazis took over.

Plus, I wouldn't call Putin Communionist. He's a crony Capitalist.

Just to piggy back on this a bit, US evangelical groups are putting massive amounts of funding into criminalizing LGBT people across the globe, from funding anti-trans TERFs in Britain to proselytizing in Russia to pushing for draconian anti-LGBT laws in Uganda to backing the new anti-LGBT government of Brazil.

So when Fox News is lying 23.5 hours a day and the US appoints a special envoy to Venezuela who's best known for running guns to right wing Nicaraguan death squads under the guise of "humanitarian aid", I'm not gonna immediately discount sources like Al Jeezera or RT

I'm not gonna defend Maduro, but we in the US seriously need to cut the bullshit. We're basically cartoon villains when it comes to South and Central America

Being right about things gets people tarred as foreign stooges. Max Blumenthal is notoriously not willing to just shut up and go along with the narrative in a context where most major media are hysterical conspiracy theorists when it comes to Russia and Vladimir Putin.

One of the few things worse than the state of media in this country is the state of discourse surrounding journalism. You can get things wrong a bunch, but heaven forbid you say anything the Pentagon doesn't like. Then the attack dogs will be all over you.

In discussions surrounding Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections, Blumenthal denied Russia's involvement and said that the use of such a narrative prevented the Democratic Party in the United States from being able to "do anything progressive".

That's... pretty well been demonstrated? If you don't think the Democratic establishment has deliberately let Russiagate be a gigantic obstacle to introspection, I don't know what to tell you.

And I also don't know why people would be so quick to trust CNN et al. about Syria. BREAKING NEWS: live from Aleppo, a six year old with some State Department talking points. You might think I'm joking about that. I'm not.

Anyway, enough of that.

The coup isn't going well for Guaido. Hopefully the United States doesn't go berserk.

TheIronRuler:

madwarper:
Cool story. Do you have anything else from RT? Or, should I get my news directly from Putin himself?

.
RT is the most trusted news organization in the world (rated by aspiring communists looking to blame the US and capitalism for the world's problems). It shows topics that the anglophone mainstream media doesn't want to touch. RT together with Al-Jazeera are the foremost protectors of free-speech and the fight against the capitalist swine. The nations that sponsor these brave media outlets, Russia and Qatar, are the freest and happiest places on earth, who boast great socialist values such as equality for all, acceptance of all people and a trustworthy and incorruptible political class - all the things that make you want to go and move there to start a new life. They are merely trying to portray Venezuela as it truly is - a wonderful place that was brought low by the US and its allies. The real villains in this story are the people who decided to sell oil cheaper, thus reducing Venezuela's income (95% of its exports were oil) and preventing it from keeping its socialist worker's paradise. The evil Venezuelan so-called refugees are actually mostly criminals and capitalists that fled the country because they were stopped by the new socialist regime - an absolute truth which the OP wholeheartedly supports.

...This happens sometimes. It's nice to catch up on news from the other side of the world. Gives off a fresh new feeling to world events. It makes you realize that there are people out there who wholeheartedly take this kind of reporting as the absolute truth and good journalism. Russia is colluding with the hearts of the western world's communists, to bring them closer to true justice for all. Except for the homosexuals, but it's ok in Chechnya because there aren't any gays there, their president said.

Am I missing something? The German version of Russia Today is pretty dang far to the right

PsychedelicDiamond:

Am I missing something? The German version of Russia Today is pretty dang far to the right

RT does whatever causes most controversy and most unhappyness with international treaty organisations. They are not left or right on principle.

trunkage:

Silvanus:
He didn't even link to RT. Am I missing something?

When R&P existed, they defended RT, particularly it's Western offices, were almost as good as some Western news companies. Some people took issue with this, particularly as it's partially Kremlin run.

So, apparently, now any claims by Seanchaidh can be dismissed as propaganda. Becuase news corporations like Fox or NYT are so impartial

This is not against Senchaidh but against the spouted single source information over the topic at hand. That also happens to be very prevalent in these forums where topics are spouted per verbatim. What other sources does Senchaidh have to support their stated claims? (Ones which don't have an invested interest in the outcome of events).

A Twitter(s) post is not a key stone of information to base any opinion upon events. Or really should it be used as a key point of discussion. We are after all talking about this in the age where quick edits can happen to change a visual narrative.

If this is what Senchaidh believes fine, still who wrote the TW post and void of anything else allows people to properly jump to propaganda conclusion.

So, none of us really have anything to say about the topic at hand, and we are instead discussing the trustworthyness of various news organisations, because Seanchaidt referred to RT positively in some other topic? Ok...

What surprises me is that Guaido is merely barred from public office. In many countries, if you pulled a stunt like he did you would be barred from the outsides of a cell for 15 years, if you weren't outright shot. I suppose it's safer for Maduro not to arrest the guy right now, since the US could use it as an excuse to invade, but if he did, I could hardly blame him. This video is nearly uninterpretable for me though. I will buy that the Spanish-language source it hails from can recognize Guaido and contextualize reasonably. In any case, it's pretty clear from reports of those who have been to Venezuela that Guaido is not all that popular, and has no claim to legitimacy whatsoever. It's one thing to call for new elections because you disapprove of the process of the last ones. Declaring yourself president with no evidence of anywhere near the popularity to back such a claim is quite something else. That's not to say there aren't problems, but restoring and diversifying the devastated economy won't happen through coups and hostile intervention.

Satinavian:

PsychedelicDiamond:

Am I missing something? The German version of Russia Today is pretty dang far to the right

RT does whatever causes most controversy and most unhappyness with international treaty organisations. They are not left or right on principle.

This seems to be true. In the US RT seems happy to be friendly with the likes of Sanders and Gabbard, though also Trump at times. In France they are apparently frequently watched by the 'yellow vests'.

In addition, I am not convinced that Russia Today nor a great deal of other untrustworthy media is micromanaged from all up top to the degree that some are suggesting here. Murdoch hasn't the time for all that, and neither do Russian civil servants among whom not that many will speak French or German or wherever else RT has bases. Likely they just hire and give a platform to a bunch of local people they think will serve their interests. Those people are given relative leeway to report the way they want, like on other platforms, but are likely selected beforehand on criteria like friendliness to Russia and general shitstirring.

RobertEHouse:
Either way, most profit based news agencies are more inquisitive and none trusting (i.e. gov), although greedy. Then state control news agencies that are usually none inquisitive but quick to support a government polices.

Eh, many countries, including many western countries have pretty alright public broadcasting. Fox news and the daily mail are privately owned but are obviously rank propaganda. I wouldn't be too quick to trust Russia Today, but not because they are owned by a state. The particular state that owns them, and their record are more important. Something owned by Rupert Murdoch with the record of fox news should be much more mistrusted than many state owned organisations.

TheIronRuler:
It shows topics that the anglophone mainstream media doesn't want to touch. RT together with Al-Jazeera are the foremost protectors of free-speech...

Yes, they really do show topics, opinions and perspectives Western media won't touch. Western media operates within Overton windows that restrict what can and will be reported, and sometimes you need to go outside to see a different picture. Of course, they are also untrustworthy in all sorts of ways, so sorting the wheat from the chaff is hard enough work (and more than I can be bothered with).

In the same vein, it's kind of funny talking about "commies". Communists and the hard left have basically no access at all to mainstream media across most of the West, although they are one group of discontented that A-J and especially RT may appeal to.

RobertEHouse:
This is not against Senchaidh but against the spouted single source information over the topic at hand.

That Maduro has retained considerable popularity with poorer Venezualans is not controversial; it is thus consistent that a man who tried to depose him would get a rough ride in a barrio and might have to be extracted by his security team.

You certainly might also expect Western media to ignore this event if they've got a narrative to push. I think we are sold Guaido as the golden boy who's going to save Venezuala, and I think it reasonable to claim that our media are going to be shy of stories that suggest his popularity and position are much murkier than presented. Although maybe I should partially roll back "narrative to push": it might just partly just the cognitive simplicity of Maduro = bad guy, Guaido = good guy for ease of conveying events.

More news about Venezuela generally: https://venezuelanalysis.com/news/14402

Juan Guaido's chief of staff, Roberto Marrero, was arrested on Thursday, accused of leading a "terrorist cell." Rodriguez claimed that Marrero was the link to to the hiring of Central American mercenaries.

Rodriguez went on to reveal screen captures of Marrero's phone purportedly showing Whatsapp group conversations featuring Marrero, Guaido, Leopoldo Lopez, currently under house arrest after being convicted for inciting violence in the 2014 street protests, among other opposition figures. Rodriguez pledged that more evidence will be divulged in the coming days.

The screen captures also revealed details of alleged bank accounts through which payments to the paramilitary groups were supposed to be made. One of them was in Banesco's Panama branch. Banesco is Venezuela?s largest private bank, and Rodriguez called on Banesco owner Ricardo Escotet to inform security services whether this account exists and what movements have been made.

Rodriguez indicated that Venezuelan authorities had learned of the existence of the bank accounts after notorious Russian pranksters Vladimir 'Vovan' Kuznetsov and Alexei 'Lexus' Stolyarov called Guaido impersonating the president of Switzerland. The pranksters said they had identified funds belonging to President Nicolas Maduro they wished to transfer to Guaido, who readily provided the "president" with account information.

Vladimir Putin would rather the United States didn't succeed in overthrowing the government of Venezuela, so we must assume that all of these charges must be fabricated.

CNN is very credible.

Pseudonym:
What surprises me is that Guaido is merely barred from public office. In many countries, if you pulled a stunt like he did you would be barred from the outsides of a cell for 15 years, if you weren't outright shot. I suppose it's safer for Maduro not to arrest the guy right now, since the US could use it as an excuse to invade, but if he did, I could hardly blame him.

In all fairness, I think they alright have the humanitarian casus belli ready to go at any moment now, most people have absolutely drank the "Chavistas are the devil" Kool-aid. A general opposition to foreign intervention on the end of either end of the American political spectrum is what is keeping them out at the moment, I doubt they'd be able to launch any major invasion short of a 9/11-like event to justify it.

Maduro is a horrible man, but he's completely fucked PR-wise with "the West", he's truly backed into a corner from where I can't really see any way out.

wouldn't international military intervention under the flimsy guise of protecting civilians from the evils of 'not-capitalism' be the most intense example of "sjw" behaviour? especially when including the commonly waffled perception of it all being "virtue signalling" to apparently disguise much more selfish motives? it's the most "sjw" you can get really, just far more aggressive and boner-inducing for armchair generals to wallow in

Pseudonym:

In any case, it's pretty clear from reports of those who have been to Venezuela that Guaido is not all that popular, and has no claim to legitimacy whatsoever. It's one thing to call for new elections because you disapprove of the process of the last ones. Declaring yourself president with no evidence of anywhere near the popularity to back such a claim is quite something else.

It's not as though he was sitting around thinking "I'm so popular, I should be the president!" He happened to be the next person in the order of succession after the president and vice president, so when Venezuela's legislature declared the election of those two people illegitimate, Guaido was the next in line as head of that legislature. It's also not as though they declared him president, the goal was to declare him interim president so that they could have new elections not run by the Maduro regime.

Seanchaidh:

In discussions surrounding Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections, Blumenthal denied Russia's involvement and said that the use of such a narrative prevented the Democratic Party in the United States from being able to "do anything progressive".

That's... pretty well been demonstrated? If you don't think the Democratic establishment has deliberately let Russiagate be a gigantic obstacle to introspection, I don't know what to tell you.

Demonstrated by... Even Barr's version of the Mueller report unequivocally confirming Russia's interference with the U.S. election and the Democratic leadership in general and Pelosi in particular downplaying the Russia investigation, outright refusing to consider impeachment, and running the 2018 election and now the 2020 election mostly on health care and other progressive priorities?

"Demonstrably false" perhaps.

Pyrian:

Seanchaidh:

In discussions surrounding Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections, Blumenthal denied Russia's involvement and said that the use of such a narrative prevented the Democratic Party in the United States from being able to "do anything progressive".

That's... pretty well been demonstrated? If you don't think the Democratic establishment has deliberately let Russiagate be a gigantic obstacle to introspection, I don't know what to tell you.

Demonstrated by... Even Barr's version of the Mueller report unequivocally confirming Russia's interference with the U.S. election and the Democratic leadership in general and Pelosi in particular downplaying the Russia investigation, outright refusing to consider impeachment, and running the 2018 election and now the 2020 election mostly on health care and other progressive priorities?

"Demonstrably false" perhaps.

By the standard that Mueller says that Russia "interfered" with the election, practically every country on Earth "interfered" with it.

As for the Democrats "running on 'progressive priorities'"... not really? Some prominent ones have been pulled left a bit, but nowhere near the kind of introspection that is needed has occurred. They're still out there saying Hillary was a good candidate and that we need 'moderates'. Pelosi instituted Paygo the first chance she got for crying out loud.

* * *

This is hardly the worst bit of journalistic malpractice when it comes to US media's treatment of Venezuela, but it is notable nonetheless: 'Weak Journalism': NYT Fails to Disclose Op-Ed Writer's Close Family Ties to Venezuelan Opposition Leader. It ought to be shocking, but it really, really isn't.

And here is some background on Venezuela's economic troubles:

The willingness of liberal Democrats to buy, repeat, and amplify Donald Trump's BS about Venezuela is disappointing but also not surprising.

Meanwhile in Honduras:

What about the humanitarian crisis in Honduras? Why is the media so obsessed with Venezuela when the migrant caravans are primarily coming from Honduras? Why does the US mainstream media apparently consider it impolitic to criticize regimes that were installed by U.S.-backed coups, then turn around and assume the worst of any left-leaning government, advocating overthrow and punitive sanctions? The United States NatSec blob could not ask for a media more biased in its favor.

Seanchaidh:
Meanwhile in Honduras:

What about the humanitarian crisis in Honduras? Why is the media so obsessed with Venezuela when the migrant caravans are primarily coming from Honduras?

Russia.

Kwak:

Seanchaidh:
Meanwhile in Honduras:

What about the humanitarian crisis in Honduras? Why is the media so obsessed with Venezuela when the migrant caravans are primarily coming from Honduras?

Russia.

What about Russia?

Seanchaidh:

Kwak:

Seanchaidh:
Meanwhile in Honduras:

What about the humanitarian crisis in Honduras? Why is the media so obsessed with Venezuela when the migrant caravans are primarily coming from Honduras?

Russia.

What about Russia?

If I had to guess, Russia and Venezuela are "close", and so Venezuela is higher on the list of targets to take down despite other crises being just as bad if not worse. Basically the same old fake tears and hypocrisy used to attempt to unseat Assad.

Seanchaidh:

Kwak:

Seanchaidh:
Meanwhile in Honduras:

What about the humanitarian crisis in Honduras? Why is the media so obsessed with Venezuela when the migrant caravans are primarily coming from Honduras?

Russia.

What about Russia?

The power plays between US and Russia using Venezuela as their virtue-signalling opportunity.
Some headlines...
Russia in Venezuela: Why Putin has sent troops to back up Nicolas Maduro

Venezuela Says More Russian Troops May Arrive to Face U.S. as Syria Offers Support

Venezuela crisis: Why Russia sent army to Venezuela REVEALED - Trump FURIOUS at decision

The Folly of Conflict With Russia Over Venezuela
There is at least one point on which Washington and Moscow find themselves at odds: Venezuela.

Trump, Putin and a Possible ?Red-Line Moment? in Venezuela

US threatens to counter Russia over military deployment Venezuela

Kwak:

Seanchaidh:

Kwak:

Russia.

What about Russia?

The power plays between US and Russia using Venezuela as their virtue-signalling opportunity.
Some headlines...
Russia in Venezuela: Why Putin has sent troops to back up Nicolas Maduro

Venezuela Says More Russian Troops May Arrive to Face U.S. as Syria Offers Support

Venezuela crisis: Why Russia sent army to Venezuela REVEALED - Trump FURIOUS at decision

The Folly of Conflict With Russia Over Venezuela
There is at least one point on which Washington and Moscow find themselves at odds: Venezuela.

Trump, Putin and a Possible ?Red-Line Moment? in Venezuela

US threatens to counter Russia over military deployment Venezuela

Seems a bit post hoc; media has been weird about Venezuela since before Russia was really doing much of anything.

Agema:

That Maduro has retained considerable popularity with poorer Venezualans is not controversial; it is thus consistent that a man who tried to depose him would get a rough ride in a barrio and might have to be extracted by his security team.

You certainly might also expect Western media to ignore this event if they've got a narrative to push. I think we are sold Guaido as the golden boy who's going to save Venezuala, and I think it reasonable to claim that our media are going to be shy of stories that suggest his popularity and position are much murkier than presented. Although maybe I should partially roll back "narrative to push": it might just partly just the cognitive simplicity of Maduro = bad guy, Guaido = good guy for ease of conveying events.

It shouldn't but in the "black & white" world we live in it probably is. It's much easier to depict conflicts (of all sorts) as being black and white rather than explain all the nuances of grey.

Someone being popular shouldn't be a gauge of how good or bad a leader is, misinformation can easily make an extremely bad leader loved by a big chunk of the people. (and the opposite is also true)
But than you need to explain in details why one's popularity shouldn't be used as a measure of benevolance. Which requires more effort than just trying to depict someone as being generally despised (or the opposite).

Seanchaidh:

Kwak:

Seanchaidh:

What about Russia?

The power plays between US and Russia using Venezuela as their virtue-signalling opportunity.
Some headlines...
Russia in Venezuela: Why Putin has sent troops to back up Nicolas Maduro

Venezuela Says More Russian Troops May Arrive to Face U.S. as Syria Offers Support

Venezuela crisis: Why Russia sent army to Venezuela REVEALED - Trump FURIOUS at decision

The Folly of Conflict With Russia Over Venezuela
There is at least one point on which Washington and Moscow find themselves at odds: Venezuela.

Trump, Putin and a Possible ?Red-Line Moment? in Venezuela

US threatens to counter Russia over military deployment Venezuela

Seems a bit post hoc; media has been weird about Venezuela since before Russia was really doing much of anything.

Well, true. It's the go-to example of how 'socialism' is doomed to result in chaos and devastation and authoritarian dictatorships, and thus its disasters must be continually highlighted lest the US populace get any uppity ideas about any legislative pushes for equality within the glorious capitalist system.

My cynicim is exaggerating the reality of course - it's obviously a news-worthy situation with probably only 60% being bias-induced capitalist dogma.
Libertarians are particularly gleefully obsessed with every new story of failure from out of there, because they can use it to say "See what happens when you regulate the free-market!"

Kwak:
.

.
Give me a few successful current nations with a socialist designed economy. Not with social policies, like a retirement age or a maternity leave. A socialist designed economy.

TheIronRuler:

Kwak:
.

.
Give me a few successful current nations with a socialist designed economy. Not with social policies, like a retirement age or a maternity leave. A socialist designed economy.

Cuba's doing better than most of its neighbours in the Carribbean despite crippling sanctions.

TheIronRuler:

Give me a few successful current nations with a socialist designed economy. Not with social policies, like a retirement age or a maternity leave. A socialist designed economy.

That'll depend on what you're referring to as a "socialist designed economy". I can think of quite a few successful countries with nationalised utilities or socialised healthcare, for instance.

TheIronRuler:
Not with social policies, like a retirement age or a maternity leave.

Y'all attack "social policies" because VENEZUELA and "socialism never works" and then run away as fast as your rhetoric can carry you when called on it.

PsychedelicDiamond:

TheIronRuler:

Kwak:
.

.
Give me a few successful current nations with a socialist designed economy. Not with social policies, like a retirement age or a maternity leave. A socialist designed economy.

Cuba's doing better than most of its neighbours in the Carribbean despite crippling sanctions.

.
Good example. I admit I don't know much about how Cuba's doing numbers-wise. I do however can guess it does better than some of the other Caribbean islands purely based on having a big-enough population and land-mass. Excluding Tobago, I think most independent Caribbean nations have it rough. If you can link me to some stuff about how Cuba's doing, I'll give it a read. However do try to find some neutral or non-communist sources, if you can.
.

Silvanus:

TheIronRuler:

Give me a few successful current nations with a socialist designed economy. Not with social policies, like a retirement age or a maternity leave. A socialist designed economy.

That'll depend on what you're referring to as a "socialist designed economy". I can think of quite a few successful countries with nationalised utilities or socialised healthcare, for instance.

.
I mean exactly what I said. If the meaning slipped your mind for a moment you can read-up on it. In a blunt and short fashion, Socialism is central planning.
.

Pyrian:

TheIronRuler:
Not with social policies, like a retirement age or a maternity leave.

Y'all attack "social policies" because VENEZUELA and "socialism never works" and then run away as fast as your rhetoric can carry you when called on it.

.
The blokes above you gave me a proper and respectful response. You haven't. You just put up a straw-man and won against it. If you want to dismiss me and keep yelling through the keyboard that's fine. It's not what I'm looking for.

I don't attack social policies. Retirement age and benefits, first came into effect to this world due to my namesake, Chancellor Otto von Bismark. It was the German Empire that constituted this in the 1880s. Just for the sake of fairness, I'd like to mention that one of the reasons for this was trying to disperse the boiling unrest caused by Marxists (said like a true Victoria 2 player).

Social policies can be beneficial to many societies, and they do not require a socialist economy to exist. They often requires a capitalist and free business environment to gather the wealth for instituting them. That's why you can get some nice social policies in rich capitalist countries like Sweden and Switzerland. Greece for example lead a line of generous social policies, but did not have the strong free economy required for their level of benefits. Greece has a bloated public sector, high taxes (that 25% VAT, damn) and a flourishing black market. If you can't tax the money moving around your country you can't use it to pay for benefits.

Pyrian:

TheIronRuler:
Not with social policies, like a retirement age or a maternity leave.

Y'all attack "social policies" because VENEZUELA and "socialism never works" and then run away as fast as your rhetoric can carry you when called on it.

That's the best part. A country can be "socialist" when it fucks up, and "not REALLY socialist" when it does something right.

Pyrian:

TheIronRuler:
Not with social policies, like a retirement age or a maternity leave.

Y'all attack "social policies" because VENEZUELA and "socialism never works" and then run away as fast as your rhetoric can carry you when called on it.

I like the comments when a Capitalist country goes bankrupt. Usually "well, that's not real Capitalism."

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