Record high amount of young men not having..ehm you-know-what.

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I can't imagine so many young men wasting their best years in a celibate state by choice, so you can easily conclude for the vast majority a sexual partner is unattainable. So, 28% of 20-29 yr old men reported not having had sex the previous year(and even that is probably underreported) but only 8% of women. Even if you argue women are similarly pre-occupied by wanting to have sex as men, that difference still has to come from somewhere.

My take is that in a time like tinder and other dating apps the market forces of supply and demand are unleashed, with men being in high supply but low demand and women in short supply but high demand. That might sound paradoxical but isn't really. If you consider, on average, women find 30% of men attractive and men atleast 70% of women it's obvious who lose out: the sausage. You could conclude, a relative few is highly active while a much larger amount get zero matches and jerk to increasingly degenerate porn or post on angry incel forums. Or become male feminist.

But, but, I hear you say if women find only 30% of men attractive and 30% of men are celibate that still leaves 40% of men in the 20-29 age range. Well, these are the people you see at Walmart or who meet at LARP events. My theory is that these 30% of men who are involuntarily celibate aren't even the ugliest or most awkward, but that simply due to supply and demand being highly in favor of women those men higher on the attraction scale are dating the women that would otherwise have dated the 30% celibates. And the reason for this is that technology enabled the cherry picking for the 30% of men women find attractive(who are obviously now also feeling the pressure of increased competition hence lowering their standards) leaving the 30% of 'losers' out in the cold.

I think it's a trend we also see reflected in the decline of fertility rates. Similarly as in a ruthlessly capitalistic society the middle-class is being erased so is the middle-attractive male in the dating market. I don't think this will change, so eventually this demographic will simply be erased from the gene pool.

I think in 50 years society will look something like this: many old people, many overweight/special needs/'spectrum' people and a small group of highly attractive 'uber' people that dominate media, entertainment and the cultural domain.

Thoughts? Ideas? Or is my theory bonkers?

https://www.sciencealert.com/the-percentage-of-americans-not-having-sex-has-reached-a-record-high

No, not really. OKCupid, back when it was not utter garbage, used to do weekly articles about the metadata they collect and their internal analytics, most notably trends in their user base. The results were often entirely predictable and of no surprise to absolutely anyone, which says a lot for the fact they tended to support gender stereotypes and double standards between the sexes, and weren't at all flattering to either men or women.

Out of curiosity, is your 70/30 figure sourced from somewhere, or just an estimate?

Otherwise, what your analysis is missing is that while swinging is fine in your twenties, most people older than that are going to be looking to settle down with a single partner. At that point, the numbers will even out more as people pair-up.

Not having sex?

stroopwafel:
You could conclude, a relative few is highly active while a much larger amount get zero matches and jerk to increasingly degenerate porn or post on angry incel forums. Or become male feminist.

Whoah now, let's not get too hasty there.

I don't think online dating/Tinder changed much, it just exacerbated realities that were always there. Look at the very article you posted, the amount of people that aren't having sex in the year merely changed by 4% since the advent of practical online dating services. It's a fairly negligible change, and certainly not one to start catastrophizing over.

CM156:
Not having sex?

stroopwafel:
You could conclude, a relative few is highly active while a much larger amount get zero matches and jerk to increasingly degenerate porn or post on angry incel forums. Or become male feminist.

Whoah now, let's not get too hasty there.

My bad, I forgot to add ''..or 'nice' guy''

Sonmi:
I don't think online dating/Tinder changed much, it just exacerbated realities that were always there. Look at the very article you posted, the amount of people that aren't having sex in the year merely changed by 4% since the advent of practical online dating services. It's a fairly negligible change, and certainly not one to start catastrophizing over.

Yeah, I just used tinder as an example as it's the most popular but the same obviously applies to any kind of online dating. The total amount of people doesn't say much as this also include the elderly. What is specifically noteworthy is the spike in young men not having sex.

I'm married to the international liberation of the working class.

Seriously though, there's a point to be made that men not having sex is indicative for a larger problem with social alienation that has gotten worse over time but all of that's just me projecting my own problems onto society as a whole. Maybe it's true, maybe it isn't. Maybe it's just a byproduct of women becoming more independent and we should be happy about that. I'm 25, I've never had sex either. I sometimes worry about that and about what it might say about me but then, it's probably a problem with me and not with the society in which we live.

stroopwafel:

I think in 50 years society will look something like this: many old people, many overweight/special needs/'spectrum' people and a small group of highly attractive 'uber' people that dominate media, entertainment and the cultural domain.

Hold up. That's what it's already like, though, and has been for longer than most of us have been alive. People you see on television and in movies or even most famous musicians all tend to look better than your average, day to day people. Because, you know, they have personal trainers and make up artists and large amounts of plastic surgery.

I'm an asexual in that age group and i don't feel like i'm missing anything in my life by choosing not to have a sex life. I would argue that it's a bigger problem how society ascribes so much value to sexual preformance, expecially in men. Two years ago i read a newspaper article about young men using viagra. These men did not have erectile dysfunction but felt a pressure to preform as well as the men in porn do, which is probably also how they imagine male celebrities are supposed ot preform and which society implies all successful people preform. Virginity and single life are overly stigmatized in today's society and the result is that people feel inadequate and start subscribing to harmful views in regards to sex and gender, like pick up artists, incels, men going their own way. I think the people who believe these things are shitty people, but the pressure to preform sexually in society isn't helpful. It also contributes to the sexist double standard where men are expected to be sexually active while women are stigmatized for having a sex life that doesn't conform to strict patriarchal monogamy. I think it's important to have a society where it is ok not to have an active sex life

I'd say its because in this day and age, its hard for a person to approach and court another person without being seen as a some sexual predator, creepy stalker.

Its especially harder for a male to approach a female.

PsychedelicDiamond:
I'm married to the international liberation of the working class.

Seriously though, there's a point to be made that men not having sex is indicative for a larger problem with social alienation that has gotten worse over time but all of that's just me projecting my own problems onto society as a whole. Maybe it's true, maybe it isn't. Maybe it's just a byproduct of women becoming more independent and we should be happy about that. I'm 25, I've never had sex either. I sometimes worry about that and about what it might say about me but then, it's probably a problem with me and not with the society in which we live.

stroopwafel:

I think in 50 years society will look something like this: many old people, many overweight/special needs/'spectrum' people and a small group of highly attractive 'uber' people that dominate media, entertainment and the cultural domain.

Hold up. That's what it's already like, though, and has been for longer than most of us have been alive. People you see on television and in movies or even most famous musicians all tend to look better than your average, day to day people. Because, you know, they have personal trainers and make up artists and large amounts of plastic surgery.

Perhaps so, but I think people are really going to miss 'average' when it's gone. Who is going to pay for pensions and the bloated welfare state? xD

stroopwafel:
Perhaps so, but I think people are really going to miss 'average' when it's gone. Who is going to pay for pensions and the bloated welfare state? xD

The wealthy.

Also, considering all of the massive cuts of the last few decades, you're very optimistic if you think you'll have a pension by the time you retire.

Sonmi:

stroopwafel:
Perhaps so, but I think people are really going to miss 'average' when it's gone. Who is going to pay for pensions and the bloated welfare state? xD

The wealthy.

Also, considering all of the massive cuts of the last few decades, you're very optimistic if you think you'll have a pension by the time you retire.

Retirement is overrated anyway. I wanna keep lining the pockets of big corporations till the day I die!

The realities of the average guy and gal are further apart than before. That's mainly social connections which can now be replaced with electronic media and social media, and both of those lead to fewer sexual encounters than frequent face-to-face interaction. Online dating only exacerbates the fact that women can nowadays be the choosers. Somebody preoccupied with fantasies instead of the real thing comes up with good reasons for doing so: the fantasy always wins in all other respects except it's not real.

I'm part of this group of 20-29 year-old men who haven't had sex, but that's because I value mutual attraction above it. I've had to turn a couple of girls down, in fact. In a way it just makes me more stressed out when the tables are turned like this: people ask me out, but I don't feel anything for them so I have to tell them no (though not straight away, sure I can give them a chance, a courtesy that I am rarely if ever shown). God dammit, I already got used to the formula of getting a crush on a girl, asking her out and getting rejected, but now I have to be rejecting as well.

Despite the increased popularity of dating apps which have made getting in contact with new people easier than ever, I think this same technology is largely the reason why these figures are high. It has never been more easy to isolate yourself away from others or retreat from problems or anxieties in the real world by turning to the internet. Despite the engagement there, it's no substitute for face to face interaction, physical touch and cues, etc. It seems to me like people (of both sexes but especially men in this age range) have trouble communicating and relating to others. Sure, matching on Tinder might give a momentary rush, but when it comes time to actually court/date/woo a partner, that takes practice you won't get on an app or by wringing your hands online about being an incel.

I could be wrong. Having lost my virginity at 17, I've maintained a pretty steady sexual existence since then through long term relationships and hook ups. Now at 27, perhaps I'm turning into that grumpy old man who just thinks the kids should go outside.

Clearly it's the 4chans and YouTubes radicalising young men into alt-right incels.

stroopwafel:
So, 28% of 20-29 yr old men reported not having had sex the previous year(and even that is probably underreported) but only 8% of women.

In the report, it's 28% of men, and 18% of women. A small difference, but still.

stroopwafel:

Sonmi:

stroopwafel:
Perhaps so, but I think people are really going to miss 'average' when it's gone. Who is going to pay for pensions and the bloated welfare state? xD

The wealthy.

Also, considering all of the massive cuts of the last few decades, you're very optimistic if you think you'll have a pension by the time you retire.

Retirement is overrated anyway. I wanna keep lining the pockets of big corporations till the day I die!

Only if your health agrees with your plan, which it won't.

Here Comes Tomorrow:
Clearly it's the 4chans and YouTubes radicalising young men into alt-right incels.

The radicalization comes after the loneliness hits, my dude.

Ugly people breed all the time. Personally, I find that to be an optimistic observation.

The problem is a lot of people either have too high standards and no ability for self-reflection, or even just a historical trend of neglecting common interests. Seriously, I think more people date without considering common interests than do. Personally, I cant imagine being with someone who isn't also into DnD and video games.

A majority of people are just terrible, arrogant, and entitled despite having no reason to feel as such.

(Side note, you can also have too low standards, which is also bad, dont stick around an abusive relationship, ever)

Its probably caused because there is better stuff to do then try to impress people or even really leave your house. I mean as much as I'm against religion, church actually had a really useful role. Just of being a community environment that people felt obligated to attend. I would bet people who are playing dnd and larping etc probably have a higher degree of having had sex then the people that don't, just because they are out there with other people.

Saelune:
Ugly people breed all the time.

image

It's a lot like globalism really.

Much like the job market, the ability to find a potential partner from anywhere in a several mile radius rather than having a limited pool has really left some people behind.

Sonmi:

Here Comes Tomorrow:
Clearly it's the 4chans and YouTubes radicalising young men into alt-right incels.

The radicalization comes after the loneliness hits, my dude.

Maybe incels deserve to be lonely since they hate women? Didja ever think of THAT? Checkmate, atheist.

<.<
>.>

Alternative Hypothesis: "Young men have had an up-tick in honesty."

Anime as well. Anime is probably a reason. Those damned Japanimations with their hue~~s and their ara~ara~s

Here Comes Tomorrow:

Sonmi:

Here Comes Tomorrow:
Clearly it's the 4chans and YouTubes radicalising young men into alt-right incels.

The radicalization comes after the loneliness hits, my dude.

Maybe incels deserve to be lonely since they hate women? Didja ever think of THAT? Checkmate, atheist.

No way, dude! Women OWE me their vaginas by virtue of me being a man and therefore entitled to sex on demand!

From a girls perspective, I don't think most women have a need to use a dating app in the first place. I get hit on everywhere I go in person daily, why go to sites on line where that is what the site exists for? Many women still view dating apps as being creepy, where you go to find a bunch of shallow, horny guys who likely will give you an STD, not where you find an actual relationship. Dating sites are pretty scary for women tbh, and I can't imagine ever wanting to use one. It is like a girl walking into a frat house.

I also think most men these days are going an entirely different direction than women. Of course there are many different personality types, so generalizing any group is not going to be accurate as far as individuals, but as far as interests go, personality and what is expected in a relationship, most men I interact with daily have such awful personalities, I don't know anyone who would want to date them for that reason alone. A guy can be great looking but the way they behave or speak makes a girl want to run like she is on fire. Yes, a man's opinions are often likely to be one of his biggest obstacles to overcome to changing how he is viewed by women in general.
The way men view, judge and value women by their appearance is part of the problem to a man's approach to dating in the first place. If a man looks at a woman and thinks " she's a 4" he pretty much just made himself a "0" for viewing women like that to begin with.

The Lunatic:
It's a lot like globalism really.

Much like the job market, the ability to find a potential partner from anywhere in a several mile radius rather than having a limited pool has really left some people behind.

You didn't find a person. You settle becuase you didn't have access. Yiou didn't know any bette. Now you do.

Relationships are hard work. You need one to have sex. At least legally. Why put in that effort when you've got easier ways of getting off.

Also, the societal push for men to sleep around isn't as prevelent. Maybe that male stereotype was societal , not biological

The Lunatic:
It's a lot like globalism really.

Much like the job market, the ability to find a potential partner from anywhere in a several mile radius rather than having a limited pool has really left some people behind.

"Globalism" and related terms are rooted antisemitism. Don't let me catch you or other users using it again. This is your first and last warning.

Good. If there's one thing I can guarantee you the world does not need more of, it's humans.

stroopwafel:
I can't imagine so many young men wasting their best years in a celibate state by choice, so you can easily conclude for the vast majority a sexual partner is unattainable

While I would agree with the conclusion, the underlined wording is troubling.

Being celibate is "wasting" one's life? Does that mean that the only purpose of life is to procreate?

I would strongly disagree with that.

These figures are strange. Does this mean more women are preferring to have sex with each other? That's one way to explain the discrepancy...

Kyle Gaddo:

The Lunatic:
It's a lot like globalism really.

Much like the job market, the ability to find a potential partner from anywhere in a several mile radius rather than having a limited pool has really left some people behind.

"Globalism" and related terms are rooted antisemitism. Don't let me catch you or other users using it again. This is your first and last warning.

It... is?

I thought it was the term given to the new interconnected nature of national economies on a global scale, or how some businesses now also operate on a global scale, and even influence economies on a global scale.

What is the new acceptable term to use when discussing the current global economic situation where nations are co-dependent on one another?

IceForce:
These figures are strange. Does this mean more women are preferring to have sex with each other? That's one way to explain the discrepancy...

Funny you say that, I actually know women who were not actually attracted to women to begin with choose to have relationships with other women after abusive relationships with men. Yes, there are some women, who due to abuse they have endured, are now afraid of men entirely. Even when they were more sexually attracted to men than women, they have since chosen to be in relationships with other women. This is actually not that rare among women at the battered women's shelter.

It is similar to how heterosexual men have had sex with other men due to the lack of female companionship whether by choice or by circumstances. One's sex drive and need for human affection and companionship does not disappear when one lacks access to their sexual preference whether or not you are male or female and people choose to deal with that in different ways.

*Note this is not in any way saying that being gay is a choice, it is that individual circumstances have affected some individuals in different ways*

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