Record high amount of young men not having..ehm you-know-what.

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Neurotic Void Melody:

The Decapitated Centaur:
Is there a problem with this or anything?

not for most people. but this is the sort of information that MRAs, incels, people who mentally live in the 1800s and the like will immediately misinterpret and lap up as confirmation bias for their particularly narrowed self-serving world views, thus the hand-wringing, pearl-clutching panic of a perceived entitlement to sex being robbed off them by a society of women not fulfilling their duty of baby-spouting, husband-pleasing obedient wifery is further validated, no matter how ridiculous

Wow. Are you okay? Do you need to sit down?

Here Comes Tomorrow:

The Decapitated Centaur:
Is there a problem with this or anything?

Ask Japan.

The realities of the Occident and Japan are night and day.

Our birthrates are nowhere near as low, and most Western countries have proper immigration to support their own growth.

Gorfias:

https://medium.com/@worstonlinedater/tinder-experiments-ii-guys-unless-you-are-really-hot-you-are-probably-better-off-not-wasting-your-2ddf370a6e9a

Supposedly, 20 women would prefer to share a handsome man than have a mediocre looking man to themselves, at least in hook up culture.

I think we need to take that with a big pinch of salt.

Not least because the author himself explains some massive caveats (small sample size, self-reported behaviour, etc.) There's not really "sharing" going on here (and the given stats suggest it's more 4:1, not 20:1). People who want one night stands have partners all to themselves for as long as they want: one night.

Likewise, Tinder is likely to represent more of a subsection of the dating pool; I don't know it well, but it seems to me to emphasise looks and superficiality (arguably a plus for people wanting one-night stands) where I suspect most people get their kicks through the traditional method of just leaving their house and happening to meet someone (workplace, bars and clubs, church[1]), which through increased mutual interaction will be more dependent on being someone to have a fun time with.

[1] Statistically, church is a very good place to find partners, albeit more the long-term variety than flings

Agema:

Gorfias:

https://medium.com/@worstonlinedater/tinder-experiments-ii-guys-unless-you-are-really-hot-you-are-probably-better-off-not-wasting-your-2ddf370a6e9a

Supposedly, 20 women would prefer to share a handsome man than have a mediocre looking man to themselves, at least in hook up culture.

I think we need to take that with a big pinch of salt.

Not least because the author himself explains some massive caveats (small sample size, self-reported behaviour, etc.) There's not really "sharing" going on here (and the given stats suggest it's more 4:1, not 20:1). People who want one night stands have partners all to themselves for as long as they want: one night.

Likewise, Tinder is likely to represent more of a subsection of the dating pool; I don't know it well, but it seems to me to emphasise looks and superficiality (arguably a plus for people wanting one-night stands) where I suspect most people get their kicks through the traditional method of just leaving their house and happening to meet someone (workplace, bars and clubs, church[1]), which through increased mutual interaction will be more dependent on being someone to have a fun time with.

I honestly don't think that the average jerking-off-to-anime, doomsday-saying, individual-minded incel will attract the type of woman who regularly attends Church/Temple/Mosque/whatever place of worship, but that's just me.

[1] Statistically, church is a very good place to find partners, albeit more the long-term variety than flings

Gorfias:

Aslo, men have low testosterone compared to the past:
https://bigthink.com/sex-relationships/men-have-less-testosterone-today
Why this is happening is only speculated at this time.

You know, I wonder how that compares to the underlying truth behind Alex Jones "chemicals turning the frogs gay" (endocrine disrupters and hormones in the water [mostly put there by private industry] causing problems wrt sexual development, sexual behavior and fertility in amphibians) bit? More specifically, I wonder what the effects of human exposure are, and at what levels.

JoJo:
I still believe outside of looks-driven hook-up culture, the numbers would look more equitable. One handsome man might be able to hook up with twenty different women in a year, but he can't marry all of them ;-)

True. For socialogical purposes, I'd think we need to see how the hookup culture impacts society, uncluding marriage rates. I read that marriage rates are either down or simply delayed.

Agema:

I think we need to take that with a big pinch of salt.
Not least because the author himself explains some massive caveats (small sample size, self-reported behaviour, etc.) There's not really "sharing" going on here (and the given stats suggest it's more 4:1, not 20:1). People who want one night stands have partners all to themselves for as long as they want: one night.
Likewise, Tinder is likely to represent more of a subsection of the dating pool; I don't know it well, but it seems to me to emphasise looks and superficiality (arguably a plus for people wanting one-night stands) where I suspect most people get their kicks through the traditional method of just leaving their house and happening to meet someone (workplace, bars and clubs, church[1]), which through increased mutual interaction will be more dependent on being someone to have a fun time with.

So many confounding factors. Tinder is a subsection of daters, but maybe many do not use it knowing it a waste of time for them. In the end, regular guys can marry but I do think hook up culture is not for them.

Schadrach:

You know, I wonder how that compares to the underlying truth behind Alex Jones "chemicals turning the frogs gay" (endocrine disrupters and hormones in the water [mostly put there by private industry] causing problems wrt sexual development, sexual behavior and fertility in amphibians) bit? More specifically, I wonder what the effects of human exposure are, and at what levels.

The truth can be found in the Hohos. Beware chocolate covered swiss rolls. But seriously, be nice if people were more concerened with this than, say, women's pubic region grooming habits. Example: https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/data-watch/sdut-female-grooming-study-2016jul12-story.html

[1] Statistically, church is a very good place to find partners, albeit more the long-term variety than flings

Gorfias:

So many confounding factors. Tinder is a subsection of daters, but maybe many do not use it knowing it a waste of time for them. In the end, regular guys can marry but I do think hook up culture is not for them.

Pulling people is about charisma more than it is looks (at least in face to face communication).

Looks make getting one's foot in the door easier and the pig ugly are always going to have a mountain to climb, but sufficient charm will get men laid plenty.

Schadrach:

You know, I wonder how that compares to the underlying truth behind Alex Jones "chemicals turning the frogs gay" (endocrine disrupters and hormones in the water [mostly put there by private industry] causing problems wrt sexual development, sexual behavior and fertility in amphibians) bit? More specifically, I wonder what the effects of human exposure are, and at what levels.

Plausible. Chemicals used in plastics are likely to be a significant problem, as they may have oestrogen-like effects.

You're often recommended to not wrap certain foods (e.g. cheese) in clingfilm because they potentially leach some of these chemicals out of the plastic, for instance. Although plastics in the water, soil, etc. are much more likely to be a problem.

But hey, that sort of thought leads to environmentalist stuff, which is really just an excuse for socialism, innit?

Here Comes Tomorrow:

The Decapitated Centaur:
Is there a problem with this or anything?

Ask Japan.

LOL

They don't accept immigration well and also the population here is nothing like theirs. What kinda fear mongering thoughtlessness is this XD

I mean it's not even birth rates it's who's a virgin by what age lol

Gorfias:
[quote="CaitSeith" post="18.1056879.24299339"]
Use it or lose it makes sense. Some say our diets, with GMOs and soy are doing this to us.

And it's turning frogs gay.

Marik2:

And it's turning frogs gay.

As long as they are happy. The ultimate vision of beauty is a humped back. And gold eyes. To a frog.

Here Comes Tomorrow:

Neurotic Void Melody:

The Decapitated Centaur:
Is there a problem with this or anything?

not for most people. but this is the sort of information that MRAs, incels, people who mentally live in the 1800s and the like will immediately misinterpret and lap up as confirmation bias for their particularly narrowed self-serving world views, thus the hand-wringing, pearl-clutching panic of a perceived entitlement to sex being robbed off them by a society of women not fulfilling their duty of baby-spouting, husband-pleasing obedient wifery is further validated, no matter how ridiculous

Wow. Are you okay? Do you need to sit down?

Interesting that his rant would trigger you considering the very small group of people its aimed it

Marik2:

And it's turning frogs gay.

I mean, it kinda is? And also intersex. And sometimes just neutered.

The whole thing about that stupid Alex Jones meme is that there actually are chemicals in the water interfering with the sexual behavior, sexual development and fertility of frogs. Just not put there by the government using chemtrails for some nefarious purpose but largely as industrial waste that should probably be better regulated (significantly from the production and use of plastics and from agriculture but from other industries as well). But they're not carbon dioxide, so it's not "sexy" to bring them up right now.

A example is atrazine (an herbicide), which can cause male frogs to develop female genitalia and be fertile, but only produce male offspring. Sometimes it just causes feminization without fertility, or chemical castration. Fun stuff.

Avnger:

Here Comes Tomorrow:

Neurotic Void Melody:

not for most people. but this is the sort of information that MRAs, incels, people who mentally live in the 1800s and the like will immediately misinterpret and lap up as confirmation bias for their particularly narrowed self-serving world views, thus the hand-wringing, pearl-clutching panic of a perceived entitlement to sex being robbed off them by a society of women not fulfilling their duty of baby-spouting, husband-pleasing obedient wifery is further validated, no matter how ridiculous

Wow. Are you okay? Do you need to sit down?

Interesting that his rant would trigger you considering the very small group of people its aimed it

Yes. I am very triggered right now. Thats why I made lengthy, ranty post in response to his very calm and reasonable post about incels and MRAs. C'mon dude.

Neurotic Void Melody:
is it too soon to blame sex robots? I think we're almost there. even the sex industry isn't safe from the perils of automation

Nope. Not too soon:
example: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/kzyvee/everything-we-know-about-torontos-new-sex-doll-brothel
I do think society has a problem that contributes to the incel issue. Namely, an artificially prolonged adolescence. And I don't doubt that is contributing to these numbers.
Not sure how much the MGTOW are impacting it.

Gorfias:

Neurotic Void Melody:
is it too soon to blame sex robots? I think we're almost there. even the sex industry isn't safe from the perils of automation

Nope. Not too soon:
example: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/kzyvee/everything-we-know-about-torontos-new-sex-doll-brothel
I do think society has a problem that contributes to the incel issue. Namely, an artificially prolonged adolescence. And I don't doubt that is contributing to these numbers.
Not sure how much the MGTOW are impacting it.

.....I'm sorry. I just had to do it...

Gorfias:
I do think society has a problem that contributes to the incel issue.

Well, in that they are a part of society, it can't not have to do with them.

Personally, I think it's largely part of the idea that a man is supposed to have/is owed a woman, and that he/society has failed if they do not. If people were being brought up believing that it's ok to be single, and that they shouldn't be condemned by their peers or themselves for being so, we'd not see people feeling alienated that way.

Gorfias:

I do think society has a problem that contributes to the incel issue. Namely, an artificially prolonged adolescence. And I don't doubt that is contributing to these numbers.
Not sure how much the MGTOW are impacting it.

Just go the Stefan Molyneux route. Blame the women for fathering children with a-holes. Because that automatically creates more a-holes.

Because being an a-hole is genetic.

Just letting you know that this is sarcasm. Please don't do that. This pretty much sums up my problems with Incels. They invent a problem (girls dont want to date ugly guys when in reality their personality is the problem) and making a solution only fixable by someone else (if you're problem needs to be fixed by someone else, you have no power.)

lol

I was walking to the shop yesterday and I saw a guy not having you know what, and I've got to say, I felt real bad for the guy.

Gorfias:
Statistically speaking, that's 2 men that did not have a woman in their life during their fertility peak.

That's not true, because there are always women who aren't in an intimate relationship. Seeing women as a limited resource that men are in constantly competiting for is the misogynistic core of incel mentality. It's a huge problem because that same mentality is an impediment in social relationships, increasing social isolation and reinforcing the mentality. It's a vicious spiral of self-defeat that ends up hurting oneself and the people who they make contact with.

Huh, the numbers are higher than i would assume.

As for why that might be a problem: Well, the disparity between genders hints there might be something not quite kosher about it, although on itself doesn't have to be problematic. Now cesspits like r/incels existing however - one look at those shows why there's a problem.
I don't ascribe to "not having sex is driving young people(especially men) crazy" outlook, however. The lines between symptoms and causes can be blurry. For someone in poor mental state in first place, trying to be attractive might be like ice-skating uphill. That and other factors may lead to a sort of vicious cycle.

Sonmi:

Shlobby, dumb, asocial morons get laid all the time, why would that not be true of anyone?

Hey, that's true, but i feel like holding the Sexual Tyranosaurus that Rich Evans is as an example, is a bit unfair.

MrCalavera:
Huh, the numbers are higher than i would assume.

As for why that might be a problem: Well, the disparity between genders hints there might be something not quite kosher about it, although on itself doesn't have to be problematic. Now cesspits like r/incels existing however - one look at those shows why there's a problem.
I don't ascribe to "not having sex is driving young people(especially men) crazy" outlook, however. The lines between symptoms and causes can be blurry. For someone in poor mental state in first place, trying to be attractive might be like ice-skating uphill. That and other factors may lead to a sort of vicious cycle.

Well with regards to them the problem is definitely not the lack of sex or needing to look attractive bit it's their entire mentality. Even if they failed to attract someone else they shouldn't end up like that there's something way more fundamentally wrong there if they can't accept things in a healthier manner

MrCalavera:

I don't ascribe to "not having sex is driving young people(especially men) crazy" outlook, however. The lines between symptoms and causes can be blurry. For someone in poor mental state in first place, trying to be attractive might be like ice-skating uphill. That and other factors may lead to a sort of vicious cycle.

Now that's an interesting point.

Evidence suggests that mental illness, particularly anxiety and depression, is on the rise in Western societies. It's entirely plausible that's also going to decrease socialising and sexual activity. (Antidepressants also often cause reduced libido.)

Agema:

MrCalavera:

I don't ascribe to "not having sex is driving young people(especially men) crazy" outlook, however. The lines between symptoms and causes can be blurry. For someone in poor mental state in first place, trying to be attractive might be like ice-skating uphill. That and other factors may lead to a sort of vicious cycle.

Now that's an interesting point.

Evidence suggests that mental illness, particularly anxiety and depression, is on the rise in Western societies. It's entirely plausible that's also going to decrease socialising and sexual activity. (Antidepressants also often cause reduced libido.)

So does medication to treat high blood pressure and with high blood pressure on the rise, far more people are taking it than before. It is possible side effects from numerous medications could be affecting this as well.
https://www.sfgate.com/health/article/High-blood-pressure-on-the-rise-Sharp-increase-2604273.php

https://www.healthline.com/health/high-blood-pressure-hypertension-linked-to-erectile-dysfunction

Lil devils x:

So does medication to treat high blood pressure and with high blood pressure on the rise, far more people are taking it than before. It is possible side effects from numerous medications could be affecting this as well.
https://www.sfgate.com/health/article/High-blood-pressure-on-the-rise-Sharp-increase-2604273.php

To be fair, I don't think hypertension is going to be a particularly large problem in the young, it's overwhelmingly 40s and up affected. Nor is it necessarily going to induce men to not want to pursue sex and relationships. Although given the most likely cause of hypertension in the young would I suspect be obesity, they might have image and self-esteem concerns.

Agema:

Lil devils x:

So does medication to treat high blood pressure and with high blood pressure on the rise, far more people are taking it than before. It is possible side effects from numerous medications could be affecting this as well.
https://www.sfgate.com/health/article/High-blood-pressure-on-the-rise-Sharp-increase-2604273.php

To be fair, I don't think hypertension is going to be a particularly large problem in the young, it's overwhelmingly 40s and up affected. Nor is it necessarily going to induce men to not want to pursue sex and relationships. Although given the most likely cause of hypertension in the young would I suspect be obesity, they might have image and self-esteem concerns.

Normally yes, but it has been increasing among children, teens and young adults:

High blood pressure currently affects about 30% of adults in the United States. Now doctors are seeing that high blood pressure is increasing in teens and kids.
High Blood Pressure is Increasing in Teens and Kids
On Monday, new guidelines were released to support doctors in finding and looking for signs of high blood pressure in their younger patients. The guidelines state that doctors are missing the signs about 75% of the time.

Dr. Joshua Samuels, a pediatrics professor and the McGovern Medical School at UT Health in Houston, Texas, said "We have seen an increase in children's blood pressure over the last decade or so. That's probably related to the obesity epidemic that we're seeing in children, but that doesn't completely explain the increase in blood pressure that we're seeing."
Hypertension is not often associated with kids and teens. The newly released guidelines, however, found that about 3.5% of younger people have hypertension compared to the past 1-2%. High blood pressure is increasing in teens and kids and is now in the top 5 chronic diseases for these age groups.
The guidelines were developed by a committee of 20 people and were based on about 15,000 reviewed articles about the correct evaluations, diagnosis, and management of high blood pressure in teens and kids. Doctors are recommended to focus more on doing routine checks and tests so they can catch hypertension signs before it becomes a bigger problem.

https://l-arginine.com/high-blood-pressure-increasing-teens-kids/

In addition, there are a good deal of conditions and medications that also can reduce libido and when you consider the sheer number of them out there, it could make a noticeable impact. Everything from allergy medications to ulcer medication can cause it so I would assume that the numbers of people being affected by side effects of these medications and conditions would also be on the rise.

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), about one in 12 people in the U.S. has asthma, or about 25 million people. And the rate appears to be on the rise. From 2001 to 2011, the CDC says the number of Americans with asthma grew by 28 percent.

Asthma affects people of all ages, but it most commonly starts in childhood. According to the CDC, "the greatest rise in asthma rates was among black children (almost a 50 percent increase) from 2001 through 2009."
And new research presented at this year's American College of Allergy, Asthma, and Immunology (ACAAI) annual meeting shows that scientists are seeing a corresponding rise in allergy rates as well.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/children-allergies-and-asthma-on-the-rise-110813#1

CaitSeith:

Gorfias:
Statistically speaking, that's 2 men that did not have a woman in their life during their fertility peak.

That's not true, because there are always women who aren't in an intimate relationship. Seeing women as a limited resource that men are in constantly competiting for is the misogynistic core of incel mentality. It's a huge problem because that same mentality is an impediment in social relationships, increasing social isolation and reinforcing the mentality. It's a vicious spiral of self-defeat that ends up hurting oneself and the people who they make contact with.

sta?tis?tics
/stəˈtistiks/

plural

1. the practice or science of collecting and analyzing numerical data in large quantities, especially for the purpose of inferring proportions in a whole from those in a representative sample.

You are discussing what might be considered confounding factors.

Do you think that polygamy, men marrying up to 6 wives, has an impact on the mating options of other males?

Marik2:
lol

Yikes! Not a sort of LOL type of thing but thanks for sharing. 4 of this guy's friends have killed themselves?!?!?!

1. It repeats the trope that women are sleeping with Chad Thundercock. He's gets plenty of sex while maybe 20 women sleep with him. The other 19 guys? F-em.
2. It brings up a 3rd type of incel problem I hadn't thought about. Incels can be males that need to work upon themselves. Also, they are victims of a society that artificially prolongs adolesence, keeping them from starting their lives when they should be free to do so. But there is a 3rd. Some are just damaged people, like this agorophobic guy. How are you going to have a life being a shut in? Of either gender?

Gorfias:

CaitSeith:

Gorfias:
Statistically speaking, that's 2 men that did not have a woman in their life during their fertility peak.

That's not true, because there are always women who aren't in an intimate relationship. Seeing women as a limited resource that men are in constantly competiting for is the misogynistic core of incel mentality. It's a huge problem because that same mentality is an impediment in social relationships, increasing social isolation and reinforcing the mentality. It's a vicious spiral of self-defeat that ends up hurting oneself and the people who they make contact with.

sta?tis?tics
/stəˈtistiks/

plural

1. the practice or science of collecting and analyzing numerical data in large quantities, especially for the purpose of inferring proportions in a whole from those in a representative sample.

You are discussing what might be considered confounding factors.

Do you think that polygamy, men marrying up to 6 wives, has an impact on the mating options of other males?

So where are these large quantities of numerical data? 6 persons (4 of them specific, two of them imaginary) aren't a representative segment of a society. And no, I don't think it affect those men, because any man that sees relationships as a mere act of mating has already blacklisted themselves for women in search of stable relationships (whatever be monogamous or polygamous).

EDIT:

But there is a 3rd. Some are just damaged people, like this agorophobic guy. How are you going to have a life being a shut in? Of either gender?

Therapy, therapy and therapy.

CaitSeith:
I don't think it [Polygamy]affect those men, because any man that sees relationships as a mere act of mating has already blacklisted themselves for women in search of stable relationships (whatever be monogamous or polygamous).

Marriage of one man to a woman has historically been about more than just mating but of binding that man to society.

Again, numbers. If one man marries 6 women, that is, looking just at those numbers, 5 men (assuming about equal numbers of men and women in a society) without a woman to give him social purpose.

Reportedly, in the West, such males join gangs. In the East? Terrorist organizations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dO8OX05pqFk

As to how to help truly damaged people,

Therapy, therapy and therapy.

I understand Woody Allen has been at it for 1/2 a century. We can hope it will help.

Gorfias:

1. It repeats the trope that women are sleeping with Chad Thundercock. He's gets plenty of sex while maybe 20 women sleep with him. The other 19 guys? F-em.
2. It brings up a 3rd type of incel problem I hadn't thought about. Incels can be males that need to work upon themselves. Also, they are victims of a society that artificially prolongs adolesence, keeping them from starting their lives when they should be free to do so. But there is a 3rd. Some are just damaged people, like this agorophobic guy. How are you going to have a life being a shut in? Of either gender?

That is also what I thought. This is clearly someone who never had to take responsibility for anything and now late in adolescense is still coddled to death by his parents. I mean, how otherwise can you spend all day submerged in your own little internet world? I almost feel sorry for him, his mind is literally poisoned by all the garbage he reads and sees online and all the other degenerates he is in constant communication with and I get the feeling that is in no small part thanks to the total absence of a parental role model. I also think mental illness is too often used by people as an excuse to isolate themselves from the world, which eventually does more harm than good. As clearly demonstrated by this guy. No character, no spine; just a passive, entitled lazy bum mind-fucked by the internet to believe the world owes him a super hot girlfriend delivered to his doorstep on a silver platter while never having to leave the depressing room he's holed up in.

Anyways the video, minus the toxic beliefs, kinda reminded me of this legendary creeper xD

stroopwafel:

That is also what I thought. This is clearly someone who never had to take responsibility for anything and now late in adolescense is still coddled to death by his parents. I mean, how otherwise can you spend all day submerged in your own little internet world? I almost feel sorry for him, his mind is literally poisoned by all the garbage he reads and sees online and all the other degenerates he is in constant communication with and I get the feeling that is in no small part thanks to the total absence of a parental role model. I also think mental illness is too often used by people as an excuse to isolate themselves from the world, which eventually does more harm than good. As clearly demonstrated by this guy. No character, no spine; just a passive, entitled lazy bum mind-fucked by the internet to believe the world owes him a super hot girlfriend delivered to his doorstep on a silver platter while never having to leave the depressing room he's holed up in.

Anyways the video, minus the toxic beliefs, kinda reminded me of this legendary creeper xD

I think that this guy is, at least harmless. Glad he is having fun. But someone like Eliot Rogers? That wasn't a bad looking kid. He'd started making some money and had something to offer a girlfriend had he the personality with which to do so. But there was something very damaged about the guy. Part of it was his world view (he thought his life should resemble a porn video?).
I saw another incel on youtube. The guy was young, overweight, soft, had hair and clothes from the 1970s. You want to just shake him and say, "dude! Hit the gym! Skip some ho-hos and ding dongs! and G-d Dang it! Could you please talk to one of our gay brothers and learn some f'n fashion! (OK, a steroe type but I suspect they can teach us straight guys a thing or two). This soft dude had less room to complain and more room to think about self improvement. And if he does sit alone in his basement thinking he is owed something and doesn't need to do anything himself, that is toxic.

Gorfias:
I understand Woody Allen has been at it for 1/2 a century. We can hope it will help.

Given what Woody Allen has been allegedly up to for decades, it probably didn't in his case. It does for many others.

The Decapitated Centaur:

MrCalavera:
Huh, the numbers are higher than i would assume.

As for why that might be a problem: Well, the disparity between genders hints there might be something not quite kosher about it, although on itself doesn't have to be problematic. Now cesspits like r/incels existing however - one look at those shows why there's a problem.
I don't ascribe to "not having sex is driving young people(especially men) crazy" outlook, however. The lines between symptoms and causes can be blurry. For someone in poor mental state in first place, trying to be attractive might be like ice-skating uphill. That and other factors may lead to a sort of vicious cycle.

Well with regards to them the problem is definitely not the lack of sex or needing to look attractive bit it's their entire mentality. Even if they failed to attract someone else they shouldn't end up like that there's something way more fundamentally wrong there if they can't accept things in a healthier manner

Healthier is the keyword here. Not an expert, but i think at the point where you're ready to give up, engage yourself with incel forums or PUA snake oil salesmen, you should hit a shrink instead.

Agema:

Now that's an interesting point.

Evidence suggests that mental illness, particularly anxiety and depression, is on the rise in Western societies. It's entirely plausible that's also going to decrease socialising and sexual activity. (Antidepressants also often cause reduced libido.)

Anxiety can effectively discourage from hanging out with friends, or participating in scholarship activities(something i experienced personally) for example, so i can esily imagine more problems with more intimate situations.

I thought I'd add my point on gender in here. Becuase this is the major reason why I thought Sarkesian was wrong. Role model/ power fantasy/ stereotype do damage men.

As has been stated on this page, monogamy is actually more beneficial for men. Beforehand, one man had many wives and most men missed out. Some studies think it could be as high as 80% of men never had a wife.

This the dominant stereotype at that time, creating a warped sense of masculinity. And that hurts men today, as no one can live up to that PUA pretend but their playing a numbers game, asking hundreds to score one. Incels want women to act like they used to without realising they were forced into that situation. Those standards are unobtainable and damage men's psyche.

Gorfias:
I saw another incel on youtube. The guy was young, overweight, soft, had hair and clothes from the 1970s. You want to just shake him and say, "dude! Hit the gym! Skip some ho-hos and ding dongs! and G-d Dang it! Could you please talk to one of our gay brothers and learn some f'n fashion! (OK, a steroe type but I suspect they can teach us straight guys a thing or two). This soft dude had less room to complain and more room to think about self improvement. And if he does sit alone in his basement thinking he is owed something and doesn't need to do anything himself, that is toxic.

A couple of things about that. Firstly, it's not practical for everyone to lose weight and get fit, the weight loss industry is massive because people keep paying money for things which almost never work. However, self-improvement doesn't have to be physical, if you've got the net, you've got the biggest and best resource tool available. Learn another language, the history of your nation, the works of Shakespeare, whatever.

And while, yes, it's infuriating to see someone totally not interested in doing anything believe they are owed everything (in fairness, half of every movie every made tells us that every unlikeable male with no redeeming features is owed an adventure and a hot female plaything), if he spoke a dozen languages and was a bodybuilder, while those are worthwhile achievements, he's still not owed anyone or anything.

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