Record high amount of young men not having..ehm you-know-what.

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Scarytown:

.....I'm sorry. I just had to do it...

That was spectacular! Thanks for sharing.

Thaluikhain:

A couple of things about that. Firstly, it's not practical for everyone to lose weight and get fit, the weight loss industry is massive because people keep paying money for things which almost never work. However, self-improvement doesn't have to be physical, if you've got the net, you've got the biggest and best resource tool available. Learn another language, the history of your nation, the works of Shakespeare, whatever.

And while, yes, it's infuriating to see someone totally not interested in doing anything believe they are owed everything (in fairness, half of every movie every made tells us that every unlikeable male with no redeeming features is owed an adventure and a hot female plaything), if he spoke a dozen languages and was a bodybuilder, while those are worthwhile achievements, he's still not owed anyone or anything.

All good advice, and I don't write the incel I was writing of be able to do all of those things (work out, lose weight, learn another language, etc.) But do something and lose the entitlement. Getting a hair cut just isn't that demanding (My boy used to use clippers on his own head in a 3 way mirror. Took him 5 min and he didn't look like Greg Brady. He has some money now and is spoiled rotten, going to a guy that takes an hour and throws in a face massage, etc.) If you absolutely do not care about grooming, that is going to have an impact on dating. I think that's a big part of why we groom to begin with. Otherwise I'd be in sweat pants 24x7.

I'd suggest that economic insecurity could be a factor. A number of young people aren't in stable, secure jobs, as evidenced by the rise of the 'gig economy' and working poverty. I think being in this situation demotivates a number of men (not all mind) in pursuing relationships.

I also don't think it's porn per-se that is also putting men off seeking relationships, but the wider abundance of digital distractions like video gaming, film streaming and social media means that it's easier to get around in life without a romantic partner. Porn is definitely a significant part of that, but I think it needs to be seen within the wider context of "digital distractions" which makes life more bearable than it would be without a sexual partner.

Nickolai77:
I'd suggest that economic insecurity could be a factor. A number of young people aren't in stable, secure jobs, as evidenced by the rise of the 'gig economy' and working poverty. I think being in this situation demotivates a number of men (not all mind) in pursuing relationships.

I also don't think it's porn per-se that is also putting men off seeking relationships, but the wider abundance of digital distractions like video gaming, film streaming and social media means that it's easier to get around in life without a romantic partner. Porn is definitely a significant part of that, but I think it needs to be seen within the wider context of "digital distractions" which makes life more bearable than it would be without a sexual partner.

I was in the military for about a decade and for most of that I didn't date at all. I didn't have the time because I was almost always working or going on deployments. There was also the fact I moved every 2 years so even if I had dated I wouldn't have been able to take it very far due unless she were willing to move around with me.

It turns out working shitty hours is really bad for your love life.

Dalisclock:

Nickolai77:
I'd suggest that economic insecurity could be a factor. A number of young people aren't in stable, secure jobs, as evidenced by the rise of the 'gig economy' and working poverty. I think being in this situation demotivates a number of men (not all mind) in pursuing relationships.

I also don't think it's porn per-se that is also putting men off seeking relationships, but the wider abundance of digital distractions like video gaming, film streaming and social media means that it's easier to get around in life without a romantic partner. Porn is definitely a significant part of that, but I think it needs to be seen within the wider context of "digital distractions" which makes life more bearable than it would be without a sexual partner.

I was in the military for about a decade and for most of that I didn't date at all. I didn't have the time because I was almost always working or going on deployments. There was also the fact I moved every 2 years so even if I had dated I wouldn't have been able to take it very far due unless she were willing to move around with me.

It turns out working shitty hours is really bad for your love life.

These reasons seem more likely to be effecting men's sexual performance ratios than the notion that they are all just 'incel' losers.

Thaluikhain:

A couple of things about that. Firstly, it's not practical for everyone to lose weight and get fit, the weight loss industry is massive because people keep paying money for things which almost never work.

Yes but a good chunk of that is the same reason many people are overweight. They want to do little work for fast results. The weight loss industry sells people those lies. Also after losing weight myself and getting into better shape pushing 30 than I was pushing 20 I've learned that people really have no clue HOW to lose weight. A person told me that they're very active but can't lose weight. Turns out they go for an hour walk a day. I tried explaining that that's not weight loss exercise that's less than the bare minimum of activity a person should get. We have easy fast food and we have more sedentary jobs. We now have to be more conscious of our activity and nutrition than previous generations and most people aren't.

Where I work we sell little energy bites. All good clean raw foods. But they're 250 calories each. People come in and buy 5 because they think "oh it's healthy". Weight loss takes willpower. Most people lack it and want a quick fix.

CheetoDust:

Thaluikhain:

A couple of things about that. Firstly, it's not practical for everyone to lose weight and get fit, the weight loss industry is massive because people keep paying money for things which almost never work.

Yes but a good chunk of that is the same reason many people are overweight. They want to do little work for fast results. The weight loss industry sells people those lies. Also after losing weight myself and getting into better shape pushing 30 than I was pushing 20 I've learned that people really have no clue HOW to lose weight. A person told me that they're very active but can't lose weight. Turns out they go for an hour walk a day. I tried explaining that that's not weight loss exercise that's less than the bare minimum of activity a person should get. We have easy fast food and we have more sedentary jobs. We now have to be more conscious of our activity and nutrition than previous generations and most people aren't.

Where I work we sell little energy bites. All good clean raw foods. But they're 250 calories each. People come in and buy 5 because they think "oh it's healthy". Weight loss takes willpower. Most people lack it and want a quick fix.

Another thing that helps is having an actual plan on what exercises you're going to do. So step one is a doctor for blood tests. Find out what's good, what's bad and what you need to work on. Then if you can, a nutritionist armed with your bloods data to lay out meal plans.

Now, the exercise is the hard part. Obviously. But if you dive in without knowing what you're doing or trying to achieve then you'll get hurt and discouraged. My advice: hit up the website for your armed forces.

http://www.defence.gov.au/Adfa/Images/Training/FitnessBrochure.pdf

This for example is a preparedness brochure given out by the Australian Defence Force. It is by no means a be all and end all approach but if you honestly have no clue where to start, basic military level fitness is a good beginning point.

Gordon_4:

CheetoDust:

Thaluikhain:

A couple of things about that. Firstly, it's not practical for everyone to lose weight and get fit, the weight loss industry is massive because people keep paying money for things which almost never work.

Yes but a good chunk of that is the same reason many people are overweight. They want to do little work for fast results. The weight loss industry sells people those lies. Also after losing weight myself and getting into better shape pushing 30 than I was pushing 20 I've learned that people really have no clue HOW to lose weight. A person told me that they're very active but can't lose weight. Turns out they go for an hour walk a day. I tried explaining that that's not weight loss exercise that's less than the bare minimum of activity a person should get. We have easy fast food and we have more sedentary jobs. We now have to be more conscious of our activity and nutrition than previous generations and most people aren't.

Where I work we sell little energy bites. All good clean raw foods. But they're 250 calories each. People come in and buy 5 because they think "oh it's healthy". Weight loss takes willpower. Most people lack it and want a quick fix.

Another thing that helps is having an actual plan on what exercises you're going to do. So step one is a doctor for blood tests. Find out what's good, what's bad and what you need to work on. Then if you can, a nutritionist armed with your bloods data to lay out meal plans.

Now, the exercise is the hard part. Obviously. But if you dive in without knowing what you're doing or trying to achieve then you'll get hurt and discouraged. My advice: hit up the website for your armed forces.

http://www.defence.gov.au/Adfa/Images/Training/FitnessBrochure.pdf

This for example is a preparedness brochure given out by the Australian Defence Force. It is by no means a be all and end all approach but if you honestly have no clue where to start, basic military level fitness is a good beginning point.

I do think diet is more important to weight loss than exercise (which has other benefits). The human body is surprisingly efficient. You have to jog like 5 miles to burn off 3 Oreo cookies. Heck. I can easily eat a sleeve. Got to keep the package tidy. I'm doing WW which has the easiest program I've ever experienced. Just have to stick to it.

CheetoDust:
They want to do little work for fast results.

Most full-time working people also have like....2 spare hours a day that's usually needed to run errands and spend with family.

and like 7 spare dollars.

They're desperate for cheap quick fixes because they can't afford expensive long ones in either time nor money when also dealing with job and societal requirements.

undeadsuitor:

CheetoDust:
They want to do little work for fast results.

Most full-time working people also have like....2 spare hours a day that's usually needed to run errands and spend with family.

and like 7 spare dollars.

They're desperate for cheap quick fixes because they can't afford expensive long ones in either time nor money when also dealing with job and societal requirements.

Eating right is the first big step to losing weight. Having an apple instead of a snickers would help. Realising that for most of us eating a bag of chips and some chocolate is going to bring us to about 1/4 or 1/3 of our calory requirements.

Pushups, burpees and squats are free and can be done while watching TV . I went to college, worked a full time job and had a 3 hour round trip commute. I'd get up at 5:30pm and get home at 6:30pm and have 3 hours to make and eat dinner, prepare for the next day before bed and I worked out at least 20 minutes everyday. If I had classes that night I'd get home at 11:00 pm. So I got up at 4:55 to work out before work. It's really really hard. But most people I know who need to lose weight still manage to do things like keep up to date with GoT.

CheetoDust:

undeadsuitor:

CheetoDust:
They want to do little work for fast results.

Most full-time working people also have like....2 spare hours a day that's usually needed to run errands and spend with family.

and like 7 spare dollars.

They're desperate for cheap quick fixes because they can't afford expensive long ones in either time nor money when also dealing with job and societal requirements.

Eating right is the first big step to losing weight. Having an apple instead of a snickers would help. Realising that for most of us eating a bag of chips and some chocolate is going to bring us to about 1/4 or 1/3 of our calory requirements.

Pushups, burpees and squats are free and can be done while watching TV . I went to college, worked a full time job and had a 3 hour round trip commute. I'd get up at 5:30pm and get home at 6:30pm and have 3 hours to make and eat dinner, prepare for the next day before bed and I worked out at least 20 minutes everyday. If I had classes that night I'd get home at 11:00 pm. So I got up at 4:55 to work out before work. It's really really hard. But most people I know who need to lose weight still manage to do things like keep up to date with GoT.

See I'm of the opposite opinion: mixing anything other than a treadmill or similar low impact and functionally auto-pilot capable exercise with television is a terrible idea. Music works fine because its passive and it helps with rhythm but television requires some active engagement. So you'll get distracted and start taking short cuts or worse form will fail and you'll injure yourself.

No, pushups, burpees, and sit-ups etc are best done as your activity of focus.

CheetoDust:
Eating right is the first big step to losing weight. Having an apple instead of a snickers would help. Realising that for most of us eating a bag of chips and some chocolate is going to bring us to about 1/4 or 1/3 of our calory requirements.

Fun size Snickers bar has six times the protein and almost a third fewer carbs than an apple has. Lot's more fat too. Snickers bar's probably a more satisfying snack for most people, and we're only talking 80 calories vs ~50.

altnameJag:
Fun size Snickers bar has six times the protein and almost a third fewer carbs than an apple has. Lot's more fat too. Snickers bar's probably a more satisfying snack for most people, and we're only talking 80 calories vs ~50.

Fun-size Snickers barely touches the sides.

I think for a lot of people it's just the lack of time. Sure, you might have a spare two or three hours a day where you really get to decide what you want to do, but when you've finished a 10- to 12-hour shift and you know you're doing another one tomorrow, and the day after, and again, etc., the idea of spending those spare hours jumping up and down on the spot or picking up a heavy thing and putting it back down again just isn't that tempting. And spending an hour at the gym realistically means taking an hour and a half out of the day to get there, shower etc.

Look at all the excuses (reasons!) I've come up with for myself!

Gordon_4:
]

See I'm of the opposite opinion: mixing anything other than a treadmill or similar low impact and functionally auto-pilot capable exercise with television is a terrible idea. Music works fine because its passive and it helps with rhythm but television requires some active engagement. So you'll get distracted and start taking short cuts or worse form will fail and you'll injure yourself.

No, pushups, burpees, and sit-ups etc are best done as your activity of focus.

Oh I agree but I'm talking about how most people can fit more activity into their lives. I listen to Black flag when I work out. Both because I like their music and because Henry Rollins is a good motivator.

altnameJag:
snip

Hey if you can stop at a fun size Snicker bar then more power to you. Most people don't. I weighed almost 220lbs because my idea of a snack was a sharing bag of m&ms.

It also seriously lacks in dietary fibre which matters. Carbs aren't just carbs. High fibre carbs are far healthier than sugar and starchy carbs. A fun size Snickers is also 15g of food. An apple is what? 10 times that. It will leave you satiated for longer for roughly the same calories intake. And again that's assuming fun size. I said Snickers. An apple, half a tin of tuna and a spoonful of peanut butter would be about 260 calories to a regular size snicker bar's 215 and would be a much better balance of fibrous carbs, healthy fats and protein with a lot more important micronutrients. And also cheap. At least where I live an apple and a tin of tuna costs a few cent more than a Snickers bar and my one kg tub of 100% peanut butter costs 10 euro and last s several weeks.

Baffle2:

Fun-size Snickers barely touches the sides.

I think for a lot of people it's just the lack of time. Sure, you might have a spare two or three hours a day where you really get to decide what you want to do, but when you've finished a 10- to 12-hour shift and you know you're doing another one tomorrow, and the day after, and again, etc., the idea of spending those spare hours jumping up and down on the spot or picking up a heavy thing and putting it back down again just isn't that tempting. And spending an hour at the gym realistically means taking an hour and a half out of the day to get there, shower etc.

Look at all the excuses (reasons!) I've come up with for myself!

I spent about 10 years making those same excuses. It is very easy to fall into those habits. It also meant my leasure time when I decided to change became primarily occupied with exercise and research. I'm not saying it isn't really really hard to change.

But honestly ever since I quit smoking cut down drinking to maybe 3-4 times a year and started exercising and eating healthy, when I go home to see friends and family they act like I'm some holier than thou douchebag when I order sparkling water at a bar and have a salad for dinner. They don't want to change they just want to not be unhealthy anymore and then wonder why things keep getting worse and worse for them when they change nothing or do low energy steady state cardio once a week. The only vaguely holier than thou comment I made was when they were giving out about the price of cigarettes and saying it was stupid how much they're taxed I said "Smoking is stupid too to be fair."

And the only reason I use myself as an example is because I am not special. I was lazy and overweight most of my life. I quit smoking without any help, no gum or patches, just decided not to smoke anymore. I used to buy a cake and just eat it with a tube of Pringles and a 2 litre bottle of coke. I was a garbage bag of a man and I just decided enough was enough. I wanted to be healthy and not have sore joints from all the extra weight I was carrying more than I wanted Pringles.

And you don't need to go to the gym or even workout for an hour. Half an hour of high intensity workouts would make a huge difference. HIIT and AMRAP routines can get you a lot more bang for your buck.

CheetoDust:

undeadsuitor:

CheetoDust:
They want to do little work for fast results.

Most full-time working people also have like....2 spare hours a day that's usually needed to run errands and spend with family.

and like 7 spare dollars.

They're desperate for cheap quick fixes because they can't afford expensive long ones in either time nor money when also dealing with job and societal requirements.

Eating right is the first big step to losing weight. Having an apple instead of a snickers would help. Realising that for most of us eating a bag of chips and some chocolate is going to bring us to about 1/4 or 1/3 of our calory requirements.

Pushups, burpees and squats are free and can be done while watching TV . I went to college, worked a full time job and had a 3 hour round trip commute. I'd get up at 5:30pm and get home at 6:30pm and have 3 hours to make and eat dinner, prepare for the next day before bed and I worked out at least 20 minutes everyday. If I had classes that night I'd get home at 11:00 pm. So I got up at 4:55 to work out before work. It's really really hard. But most people I know who need to lose weight still manage to do things like keep up to date with GoT.

My big problem right now is I have no idea how to tell 'good pain' from 'bad'. I keep flirting with the idea of consistent workouts, and for a bit I actually did some rather more intensive workouts than I likely should. Just like, a 2 minute one, but daily. After a bit my leg hurt like all hell and it freaked me out. I didn't know if it was a 'good pain' cause I was doing a good job, or 'bad' and I was fucking up my leg forever. I then stopped. I right now am trying to get back into a habit of doing SOME form of exercise, but I am going much more slowly now and trying to have a day of rest in between...but then I get 'forgetful' and will likely eventually just stop soon, 'cause I forgot to exercise'.

Also I have no idea when the best time to do it is. Do I do it at the start of the day and risk tiring myself out, or wait till the end, when I am too tired to take it seriously?

Saelune:

CheetoDust:

undeadsuitor:

Most full-time working people also have like....2 spare hours a day that's usually needed to run errands and spend with family.

and like 7 spare dollars.

They're desperate for cheap quick fixes because they can't afford expensive long ones in either time nor money when also dealing with job and societal requirements.

Eating right is the first big step to losing weight. Having an apple instead of a snickers would help. Realising that for most of us eating a bag of chips and some chocolate is going to bring us to about 1/4 or 1/3 of our calory requirements.

Pushups, burpees and squats are free and can be done while watching TV . I went to college, worked a full time job and had a 3 hour round trip commute. I'd get up at 5:30pm and get home at 6:30pm and have 3 hours to make and eat dinner, prepare for the next day before bed and I worked out at least 20 minutes everyday. If I had classes that night I'd get home at 11:00 pm. So I got up at 4:55 to work out before work. It's really really hard. But most people I know who need to lose weight still manage to do things like keep up to date with GoT.

My big problem right now is I have no idea how to tell 'good pain' from 'bad'. I keep flirting with the idea of consistent workouts, and for a bit I actually did some rather more intensive workouts than I likely should. Just like, a 2 minute one, but daily. After a bit my leg hurt like all hell and it freaked me out. I didn't know if it was a 'good pain' cause I was doing a good job, or 'bad' and I was fucking up my leg forever. I then stopped. I right now am trying to get back into a habit of doing SOME form of exercise, but I am going much more slowly now and trying to have a day of rest in between...but then I get 'forgetful' and will likely eventually just stop soon, 'cause I forgot to exercise'.

Also I have no idea when the best time to do it is. Do I do it at the start of the day and risk tiring myself out, or wait till the end, when I am too tired to take it seriously?

I saw my greatest success when exercising when I got home from work, before dinner. It was tough for about a week, but in reasonably short order I just had the extra energy at the end of the day for it. Exercising will give you more energy in general, and on top of that your brain is more or less able to judge your productive period of the day and budget energy accordingly. Once you establish a low-key habit of doing something physical after work it will become much easier to continue because it just sort of becomes the last step of your work day. For the first while try to just do the exact same thing over and over - it will speed up the acclimatization process. Once you normalize to that you can start changing stuff up.

Losing weight is in a way dirt simple, really. Fancy diets and that shit is basically unnecessary, it's just more calories out than calories in = weight loss.

You can check your (approximate) base calorie usage depending on weight, sex, etc. fairly easily. It is then easy enough to calculate approximate calorie usage for activities, and how much you get from various forms of food and drink. You can simply lose weight by reducing food intake although that will burn away fat and muscle, whereas exercise plus controlled food intake should hit the fat whilst maintaining or even building up muscle.

The problem is more keeping to a regime. Exercise in particular is a drag, as it's often time and effort intensive when people would rather be on Facebook, World of Warcraft or whatever.

CheetoDust:

Gordon_4:
]

See I'm of the opposite opinion: mixing anything other than a treadmill or similar low impact and functionally auto-pilot capable exercise with television is a terrible idea. Music works fine because its passive and it helps with rhythm but television requires some active engagement. So you'll get distracted and start taking short cuts or worse form will fail and you'll injure yourself.

No, pushups, burpees, and sit-ups etc are best done as your activity of focus.

Oh I agree but I'm talking about how most people can fit more activity into their lives. I listen to Black flag when I work out. Both because I like their music and because Henry Rollins is a good motivator.

altnameJag:
snip

Hey if you can stop at a fun size Snicker bar then more power to you. Most people don't. I weighed almost 220lbs because my idea of a snack was a sharing bag of m&ms.

It also seriously lacks in dietary fibre which matters. Carbs aren't just carbs. High fibre carbs are far healthier than sugar and starchy carbs. A fun size Snickers is also 15g of food. An apple is what? 10 times that. It will leave you satiated for longer for roughly the same calories intake. And again that's assuming fun size. I said Snickers. An apple, half a tin of tuna and a spoonful of peanut butter would be about 260 calories to a regular size snicker bar's 215 and would be a much better balance of fibrous carbs, healthy fats and protein with a lot more important micronutrients. And also cheap. At least where I live an apple and a tin of tuna costs a few cent more than a Snickers bar and my one kg tub of 100% peanut butter costs 10 euro and last s several weeks.

Baffle2:

Fun-size Snickers barely touches the sides.

I think for a lot of people it's just the lack of time. Sure, you might have a spare two or three hours a day where you really get to decide what you want to do, but when you've finished a 10- to 12-hour shift and you know you're doing another one tomorrow, and the day after, and again, etc., the idea of spending those spare hours jumping up and down on the spot or picking up a heavy thing and putting it back down again just isn't that tempting. And spending an hour at the gym realistically means taking an hour and a half out of the day to get there, shower etc.

Look at all the excuses (reasons!) I've come up with for myself!

I spent about 10 years making those same excuses. It is very easy to fall into those habits. It also meant my leasure time when I decided to change became primarily occupied with exercise and research. I'm not saying it isn't really really hard to change.

But honestly ever since I quit smoking cut down drinking to maybe 3-4 times a year and started exercising and eating healthy, when I go home to see friends and family they act like I'm some holier than thou douchebag when I order sparkling water at a bar and have a salad for dinner. They don't want to change they just want to not be unhealthy anymore and then wonder why things keep getting worse and worse for them when they change nothing or do low energy steady state cardio once a week. The only vaguely holier than thou comment I made was when they were giving out about the price of cigarettes and saying it was stupid how much they're taxed I said "Smoking is stupid too to be fair."

And the only reason I use myself as an example is because I am not special. I was lazy and overweight most of my life. I quit smoking without any help, no gum or patches, just decided not to smoke anymore. I used to buy a cake and just eat it with a tube of Pringles and a 2 litre bottle of coke. I was a garbage bag of a man and I just decided enough was enough. I wanted to be healthy and not have sore joints from all the extra weight I was carrying more than I wanted Pringles.

And you don't need to go to the gym or even workout for an hour. Half an hour of high intensity workouts would make a huge difference. HIIT and AMRAP routines can get you a lot more bang for your buck.

Off topic a bit, but if you want to feel like a king among men lifting weights, play "Anvil of Crom" from the old Conan the Barbarian soundtrack while you do it.

Agema:
Losing weight is in a way dirt simple, really. Fancy diets and that shit is basically unnecessary, it's just more calories out than calories in = weight loss.

You can check your (approximate) base calorie usage depending on weight, sex, etc. fairly easily. It is then easy enough to calculate approximate calorie usage for activities, and how much you get from various forms of food and drink. You can simply lose weight by reducing food intake although that will burn away fat and muscle, whereas exercise plus controlled food intake should hit the fat whilst maintaining or even building up muscle.

The problem is more keeping to a regime. Exercise in particular is a drag, as it's often time and effort intensive when people would rather be on Facebook, World of Warcraft or whatever.

Normally yes, however this depends on whether or not there is an underlying health condition that is preventing them from losing weight. We have plenty of cases where a person is only eating one meal a day and continue to gain weight. This frequently happens to women after childbirth due to their body still being in fat storing mode. Hormonal imbalances can make weight loss extremely difficult and there may be underlying health issues that would need to be addressed before healthily being able to lose weight. People often do not realize things like they need to intake fats from things like olive oil seeds and nuts in order to be able to burn the body fat they want to lose and they can cause serious damage to themselves if they fail to do so. Also losing weight too fast can also be dangerous and may result in issues with fatty liver disease and other life threatening problems, so they need to make sure they are doing it right. It is usually better to speak with their physician and get checked out before trying to lose a significant amount of weight and they would also need to be examined during their weight loss as well to make sure there are not any severe impacts to their health while making these changes. Usually the benefits far outweigh the risks, but they should be careful either way, as it is better to be safe than sorry later.

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