Game of Thrones Final Season Discussion Thread. (SPOILERS ABOUND, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED)

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Dreiko:
So, now that this is over apparently, should one read the books or watch the show? I was waiting until either the last book or last tv episode had come out before deciding to get into this.

I know some people are angry that the blond girl went crazy or something because the tv series diverges from the book with regards to darkness and characterization but somehow retains the same ending as the book but I wonder if that's alleviated if you just read the book.

Well, the inherent issue now is that while the show is finished, the books certinatly aren't. 5 books are published with 2 more apparently on the way. However, GRR Martin has been taking his time writing them and each book has been taking longer then the last. The last book was published 8 years ago and he refuses to comment on when the next one will be done(other to say they aren't done yet, because one of the show actors said he heard they were finished). But there is more then enough written to just start reading now and hope the next one at least has a release date by the time you finish(unless you read super fast).

I've read the first 3. I keep telling myself I'm not starting on 4 and 5 until he's at least announced when book 6 is coming out, but I'm starting to get worried he's gonna die of old age/health issues before he finishes the saga. The man is 70 and he doesn't look like he's in fantastic health and Brandon Sanderson is writing his own massive fantasy epic so it's unlikely he'll be able bail him out if he kicks it like he did with Robert Jordan.

Apparently RR went over the big plot points for the last two books with the showrunners around the time they reached the end of the books, so assuming he still writes to those same plot points(at this point I have to wonder), one can only assume the execution might be very different. That's not taking into account the books and the show already diverged before they ran out of book material to adapt.

CM156:

Saelune:

CM156:

I've never forgiven him for that. And it's why I don't blame Olly and the others who despise specific wildlings. They have good cause.

Olly killed Jon, not Tormund. Fuck Olly.

Jon basically pardoned all the wildlings despite their reeving of the mostly defenseless peasants. Olly's stabbing was entirely predictable.

Predictable, but not justified. I don't hate Olly for killing Ygritte. I hate Olly for killing Jon. If he killed Tormund I also would not have faulted him.

Dalisclock:

Dreiko:
So, now that this is over apparently, should one read the books or watch the show? I was waiting until either the last book or last tv episode had come out before deciding to get into this.

I know some people are angry that the blond girl went crazy or something because the tv series diverges from the book with regards to darkness and characterization but somehow retains the same ending as the book but I wonder if that's alleviated if you just read the book.

Well, the inherent issue now is that while the show is finished, the books certinatly aren't. 5 books are published with 2 more apparently on the way. However, GRR Martin has been taking his time writing them and each book has been taking longer then the last. The last book was published 8 years ago and he refuses to comment on when the next one will be done(other to say they aren't done yet, because one of the show actors said he heard they were finished). But there is more then enough written to just start reading now and hope the next one at least has a release date by the time you finish(unless you read super fast).

I've read the first 3. I keep telling myself I'm not starting on 4 and 5 until he's at least announced when book 6 is coming out, but I'm starting to get worried he's gonna die of old age/health issues before he finishes the saga. The man is 70 and he doesn't look like he's in fantastic health and Brandon Sanderson is writing his own massive fantasy epic so it's unlikely he'll be able bail him out if he kicks it like he did with Robert Jordan.

Oh wow, it's funny you mention Sanderson since I'm in the middle of reading the third Stormlight book as we speak. Really loving that series so far. And yeah these books are massive and 3000~ pages in nothing is nearly concluded yet lol.

But yeah, sounds like it's worth getting into the books for now.

Dreiko:

Dalisclock:

Dreiko:
So, now that this is over apparently, should one read the books or watch the show? I was waiting until either the last book or last tv episode had come out before deciding to get into this.

I know some people are angry that the blond girl went crazy or something because the tv series diverges from the book with regards to darkness and characterization but somehow retains the same ending as the book but I wonder if that's alleviated if you just read the book.

Well, the inherent issue now is that while the show is finished, the books certinatly aren't. 5 books are published with 2 more apparently on the way. However, GRR Martin has been taking his time writing them and each book has been taking longer then the last. The last book was published 8 years ago and he refuses to comment on when the next one will be done(other to say they aren't done yet, because one of the show actors said he heard they were finished). But there is more then enough written to just start reading now and hope the next one at least has a release date by the time you finish(unless you read super fast).

I've read the first 3. I keep telling myself I'm not starting on 4 and 5 until he's at least announced when book 6 is coming out, but I'm starting to get worried he's gonna die of old age/health issues before he finishes the saga. The man is 70 and he doesn't look like he's in fantastic health and Brandon Sanderson is writing his own massive fantasy epic so it's unlikely he'll be able bail him out if he kicks it like he did with Robert Jordan.

Oh wow, it's funny you mention Sanderson since I'm in the middle of reading the third Stormlight book as we speak. Really loving that series so far. And yeah these books are massive and 3000~ pages in nothing is nearly concluded yet lol.

But yeah, sounds like it's worth getting into the books for now.

I re-read the first stormlight book recently and enjoyed it. I have the other two on my shelf waiting for me, but I need a break between 1000+ page epics. Apparently Sanderson is planning to write 10 of them so roughly 1/3 of the series is complete(and you can bet they're all gonna be around 1000 pages or so, based on the books so far).

Dalisclock:

Dreiko:

Dalisclock:

Well, the inherent issue now is that while the show is finished, the books certinatly aren't. 5 books are published with 2 more apparently on the way. However, GRR Martin has been taking his time writing them and each book has been taking longer then the last. The last book was published 8 years ago and he refuses to comment on when the next one will be done(other to say they aren't done yet, because one of the show actors said he heard they were finished). But there is more then enough written to just start reading now and hope the next one at least has a release date by the time you finish(unless you read super fast).

I've read the first 3. I keep telling myself I'm not starting on 4 and 5 until he's at least announced when book 6 is coming out, but I'm starting to get worried he's gonna die of old age/health issues before he finishes the saga. The man is 70 and he doesn't look like he's in fantastic health and Brandon Sanderson is writing his own massive fantasy epic so it's unlikely he'll be able bail him out if he kicks it like he did with Robert Jordan.

Oh wow, it's funny you mention Sanderson since I'm in the middle of reading the third Stormlight book as we speak. Really loving that series so far. And yeah these books are massive and 3000~ pages in nothing is nearly concluded yet lol.

But yeah, sounds like it's worth getting into the books for now.

I re-read the first stormlight book recently and enjoyed it. I have the other two on my shelf waiting for me, but I need a break between 1000+ page epics. Apparently Sanderson is planning to write 10 of them so roughly 1/3 of the series is complete(and you can bet they're all gonna be around 1000 pages or so, based on the books so far).

I kinda blazed through them at about 2 weeks per book over the last month so this is very timely of a moment to bring them up. Though with the pace he's going I'll prolly die waiting for the series to be fully done XD.

Each is larger than the prior so far, book 3 is around 1200~ pages. And man, book 1 is the slowest of the 3, so I strongly recommend you getting into the next one. Though you may not wanna look too closely at the third book's cover cause spoilers XD.

Saelune:

CM156:

Saelune:
Olly killed Jon, not Tormund. Fuck Olly.

Jon basically pardoned all the wildlings despite their reeving of the mostly defenseless peasants. Olly's stabbing was entirely predictable.

Predictable, but not justified. I don't hate Olly for killing Ygritte. I hate Olly for killing Jon. If he killed Tormund I also would not have faulted him.

I guess that's a fair way of looking at it, even if I can't fault him for stabbing Jon.

I now feel entirely vindicated in my prediction that GoT would end in a fiery train wreck. This episode was slow and while I can kind of appreciate the send off of the Starks', it also took way too much time and mostly made me realize how little I thought of any of these characters (maybe bar Sansa) as anything but puppets the show had moved around as needed for the last three seasons.

Disposing Dany 30 minutes after she's gone Mad Queen and without any real stake building apart from making Jon feel bad for killing his lover also felt way too rushed, but that's on the level of the rest of this season and its breakneck pace to just get it all over with.

I've got plenty of criticism for this episode. I do. But I honestly feel relieved that this show, that I loved for the first four seasons and despised for the last three, has finally come to an end. I don't need to dwell on it, now I can focus on actual good writing on television again.

Gethsemani:
I now feel entirely vindicated in my prediction that GoT would end in a fiery train wreck. This episode was slow and while I can kind of appreciate the send off of the Starks', it also took way too much time and mostly made me realize how little I thought of any of these characters (maybe bar Sansa) as anything but puppets the show had moved around as needed for the last three seasons.

Disposing Dany 30 minutes after she's gone Mad Queen and without any real stake building apart from making Jon feel bad for killing his lover also felt way too rushed, but that's on the level of the rest of this season and its breakneck pace to just get it all over with.

I've got plenty of criticism for this episode. I do. But I honestly feel relieved that this show, that I loved for the first four seasons and despised for the last three, has finally come to an end. I don't need to dwell on it, now I can focus on actual good writing on television again.

I don't know why you thought Season 4 was still good, half of it had writing that was equally bad as what came after.

So, i watched the Finale yesterday. And two of my predictions turned out to be true: That Drogon will melt the Iron Throne(which actually played out in a dumber way than i imagined), and that either Jon or Arya will kill Dany.
I expected Arya to have more to do in this episode, tbh...
Overall, i'm not sure if the final ep was worse than the last one; audiences, though still dissapointed seem to agree. But, i don't know if it's not the case of last one presenting such a "bold" decision, that all the minor bad ones in this one don't feel as offensive.
Either way, rather than a giant trainwreck, it ended as kind of a flaccid fart?

Although! One, IMPORTANT fumble have been fixed:

I think like there are still couple of reamaining questions though:

Why did Drogon melt the Iron throne? Why did he destroy the throne in a fit of rage, and not anything/anyone else?
Was it cause he somehow knew that this throne represents the proverbial Wheel that his mother wanted to break, a cause and symbol of all the misery Seven Kingdoms had to suffer? Or was it cause "Bad Spiky Thing hurt mommy"?

Why didn't he kill Jon, despite still warm body of his mother lying next to him? Is it cause he's still just an animal after all, that can't connect the dots? Did he forgive him? Is it because of the Targaryen blood? What was that black goo?

So after he took the body to the Avalon Undying Lands There be dragons whatever, how would anyone be sure that Daenerys is dead? There was a pool of blood there, but would that be enough to determine that?
Would Jon just- of course he would tell them. Scratch that paragraph.

If Dany was technically a Khaal, and Jon killed her, wouldn't that make him the next Khaal? Who leads the Dothraki now?
Did they decide to just peace out, instead of going pillaging and raping around Westeros?

Why did Grey Worm agree to that deal? He seemed understandably angry about Jon's deeds, why would he trust his relatives' words? What will Unsullied do once they reach Naath? Grey Worm has a sentimental reason to go there, will they just become mercenaries now?

Why send Jon "Queenslayer" Snow back to the Night's Watch?

Samtemdo8:
There is still a Night's Watch?

Aren't The Wall and Castle Black effectively useless now?

Where and when did Arya learn to sail? Is there a fantasy version of Americas west to Westeros?
Will we see her again in GoT2: A Song of Sail and Colonization?

What was up with that "peace" council? Who decides whos vote matter? Seems like it would be important when electing the King of Seven Kingdoms? Why are the Dorne and Ironborn okay with the North being independent, while their lands remain subservent?

Did Yara not even mention Theon with a single word? She does know her brother's dead, right?

Why is Bronn even on King's council? Why would he care? Does Bran need a Master of Whispers if he can see everything?

Did they just rip off Return of the King with that book scene?

MrCalavera:
I think like there are still couple of reamaining questions though:

Why did Drogon melt the Iron throne? Why did he destroy the throne in a fit of rage, and not anything/anyone else?
Was it cause he somehow knew that this throne represents the proverbial Wheel that his mother wanted to break, a cause and symbol of all the misery Seven Kingdoms had to suffer? Or was it cause "Bad Spiky Thing hurt mommy"?

Why didn't he kill Jon, despite still warm body of his mother lying next to him? Is it cause he's still just an animal after all, that can't connect the dots? Did he forgive him? Is it because of the Targaryen blood? What was that black goo?

So after he took the body to the Avalon Undying Lands There be dragons whatever, how would anyone be sure that Daenerys is dead?
There was a pool of blood there, but would that be enough to determine that?
Would Jon just- of course he would tell them. Scratch that paragraph.

If Dany was technically a Khaal, and Jon killed her, wouldn't that make him the next Khaal? Who leads the Dothraki now?
Did they decide to just peace out, instead of going pillaging and raping around Westeros?

Why did Grey Worm agree to that deal? He seemed understandably angry about Jon's deeds, why would he trust his relatives' words? What will Unsullied do once they reach Naath? Grey Worm has a sentimental reason to go there, will they just become mercenaries now?

Why send Jon "Queenslayer" Snow back to the Night's Watch?

Samtemdo8:
There is still a Night's Watch?

Aren't The Wall and Castle Black effectively useless now?

Where and when did Arya learn to sail? Is there a fantasy version of Americas west to Westeros?
Will we see her again in GoT2: A Song of Sail and Colonization?

What was up with that "peace" council? Who decides whos vote matter? Seems like it would be important when electing the King of Seven Kingdoms? Why are the Dorne and Ironborn okay with the North being independent, while their lands remain subservent?

Did Yara not even mention Theon with a single word? She does know her brother's dead, right?

Why is Bronn even on King's council? Why would he care? Does Bran need a Master of Whispers if he can see everything?

Did they just rip off Return of the King with that book scene?

I am totally calling it that Samwell will live and make a book about this whole story in Martin's yet to come novels.

Dreiko:
So, now that this is over apparently, should one read the books or watch the show? I was waiting until either the last book or last tv episode had come out before deciding to get into this.

Show. The books are very solid for the first three, then gets "bleh" for the last two, and Martin's still not released books 6 and 7. It's pretty clear that Martin's way in over his head at this point.

Not only has the show finished, but even season 7 (the weakest season I've seen) is still much better than most fantasy TV shows.

Dreiko:

And man, book 1 is the slowest of the 3,

Oh really? I never would have guessed.

Yeah, remember when I used to be a Sanderson fanboy on this site, before I realized that it was less about Sanderson, and more just about Mistborn?

Good times. :(

MrCalavera:
I think like there are still couple of reamaining questions though:

Why did Drogon melt the Iron throne? Why did he destroy the throne in a fit of rage, and not anything/anyone else?
Was it cause he somehow knew that this throne represents the proverbial Wheel that his mother wanted to break, a cause and symbol of all the misery Seven Kingdoms had to suffer? Or was it cause "Bad Spiky Thing hurt mommy"?

I thought that was fairly obvious that Drogon knew that she wanted to sit on the iron throne. And she can't, no one else will get to sit on it either.

Hawki:

Yeah, remember when I used to be a Sanderson fanboy on this site, before I realized that it was less about Sanderson, and more just about Mistborn?

But Mistborn is shit, surely?

Baffle2:

Hawki:

Yeah, remember when I used to be a Sanderson fanboy on this site, before I realized that it was less about Sanderson, and more just about Mistborn?

But Mistborn is shit, surely?

Um...no?

Hawki:

Baffle2:

Hawki:

Yeah, remember when I used to be a Sanderson fanboy on this site, before I realized that it was less about Sanderson, and more just about Mistborn?

But Mistborn is shit, surely?

Um...no?

Ah, my mistake, must be thinking of a different book with the same title.

It's a long time since I read my version of Mistborn by Brandon Sanderson; I recall the world-building being good but the characters just all over the place and prone to behaving in whatever way was convenient for moving the plot forward (which makes Sanderson a shoo-in for finishing Robert Jordan's work).

(The copy I read also had an unedited draft of the first chapter of the next book at the back and, holy shit, he must have a good editor.)

Ok. It's over. The finale was ... ok-ish? I guess? Everybody who's still alive pretty much gets their happy ending (cept Edmure. LOL). I felt it was kind of boring, but that might just be in juxtaposition to the more high octane episodes that preceded it. The ending was likely to disappoint whichever way they took things, so whatever, it's fine. But let's nitpick anyway, because it's fun and it seems to be the thing to do.

First off, does Jon as a Targaryen have Dany's apparent immunity to fire too? Cuz it seems like having your face a meter away from a sustained stream of fire hot enough to melt steel and stone into a puddle in less than a minute should at least singe your eyebrows. Oooh, this is fun. What can we bitch about now?

Ok, yeah, that council presiding over Tyrion's trial and subsequent choosing of a king. Not sure why Brienne, Sam, Davos and Arya are on it since none of them have much in the way of actual political clout. No lands, or wealth, or the all important armies. Early seasons made a point of it that titles mean nothing without the power to back them up, so I'm assuming they're there because they're surviving named characters.

Oh, Edmure Tully was also there, still alive and all. Head of a Great House, but also a massive bitch, so he gets told to sit his ass back down.

Apparently a few plastic water bottles are visible in one scene, and people are annoyed.

Thaluikhain:
Apparently a few plastic water bottles are visible in one scene, and people are annoyed.

They do say that plastic bottles are hard to get rid of.

Dreiko:
So, now that this is over apparently, should one read the books or watch the show? I was waiting until either the last book or last tv episode had come out before deciding to get into this.

I know some people are angry that the blond girl went crazy or something because the tv series diverges from the book with regards to darkness and characterization but somehow retains the same ending as the book but I wonder if that's alleviated if you just read the book.

Don't watch past season 4.

Books are good, but be prepared with frustration at the author dragging his feet and taking forever to release any new content if you ever get involved with the series. It's been fucking two years since he released Aeron I.

Chimpzy:
Oh, Edmure Tully was also there, still alive and all. Head of a Great House, but also a massive bitch, so he gets told to sit his ass back down.

What's funny about this, and really only speaks to how awful D&D are as showrunners, is Edmure's claim was pretty accurate and he made a pretty strong case for taking the crown. The only thing invalidating that is "lol, Edmure's a pussy" fanservice.

If the North pressed for independence (and they did) the Riverlands would become the definitive strategic grounds of all Westeros. To a certain degree they already were, but Northern independence means the Riverlands sits on the border between two independent countries, and occupying all land routes (meaning trade) between the two. Plus, the sole remaining heir to the Frey's lands is Edmure's son, meaning the Tullys directly control one of the two major thoroughfares between the North and South.

Not to mention, Edmure has blood relation to Sansa which would make him a key strategic and diplomatic player in relations between North and South. And -- the important piece -- remember hostageship is not necessarily shameful in and of itself, and any shame that would be a consequence of it would fall to the now-defunct Freys for having violated guest right. Hostageship was an important part of diplomacy and negotiation, and to be held hostage (as opposed to captive) imparted a certain sense of goodwill towards hostage and "captor"; the Lannisters would have been viewed as having liberated Edmure from captivity, and Edmure would be obliged to them.

In other words, relations between the Lannisters, Riverlands, and North could be normalized immediately, and within a generation a marriage between Edmure's son and a Lannister daughter would have elevated that relationship to a formal alliance. Which would have been absolutely key to the North's strategic situation vis-a-vis the Ironborn: an independent North means a North that can be reaved relatively free of consequence, absent a Lannister fleet or intervention from the Redwyne Navy.

And, since the North pressed for independence and that claim was honored, a Stark king all but guarantees Dornish and Ironborn claims for independence sooner or later (probably sooner), especially since both involved Great Houses pledged themselves to Dany. Better to allow them to secede peacefully, and lean into strengthening relations between the remaining kingdoms; an arranged marriage between Gendry's and Bronn's heirs, means a marriage between a Baratheon-Bronn heir and Tully-Lannister heir unifies all remaining kingdoms and Houses at once, since Tully, Arryn, and Stark are all already allied by blood and marriage.

Assuming Bronn can press his claim to the Reach and hold it against an inevitable Redwyne rebellion.

But, back to Edmure. The only people who knew he fucked up at Stone Mill died in the War of Five Kings. To everyone else, it was a major victory against one of the most fearsome and reviled landed knights of the realm. As far as surrendering Riverrun, it was clear Brynden had lost and was refusing to capitulate beyond reason; the rest was simple negotiation and obligation, which reflects no particular shame on Edmure himself. The two people that know the truth behind it are Edmure himself, and Jaime who is dead.

Putting Edmure on the throne was actually the smartest move, politically, for the long-term stability of the realm. Sansa was, once again, a bona fide idiot for not even considering it. Or rather, D&D are bona fide idiots for expecting their audience to chortle like hyenas, not even recognizing for themselves the implications of their own "comedic relief".

Certainly smarter than an ascension that reeks of the same nepotism that caused the war in the first place, that all but ensures an even bigger, deadlier war shortly thereafter.

What I'm most excited about is Brienne's writing scene. I want it to be meme'd to the ground with her writing two hundred pages of Sonic fanfics or describing Jaime's looks (and looks) and intimately about their night together. And so on.

Chimpzy:
Ok. It's over. The finale was ... ok-ish? I guess? Everybody who's still alive pretty much gets their happy ending (cept Edmure. LOL). I felt it was kind of boring, but that might just be in juxtaposition to the more high octane episodes that preceded it. The ending was likely to disappoint whichever way they took things, so whatever, it's fine. But let's nitpick anyway, because it's fun and it seems to be the thing to do.

Oh, Edmure Tully was also there, still alive and all. Head of a Great House, but also a massive bitch, so he gets told to sit his ass back down.

Poor Edmure. The show really has been needlesly cruel to him. He's not particularly competent in the books but that's because he's a kindhearted man of peace. Here he's just an inept jerk who's wrong 100% of the time. Even Edmure's acomplishments end up twisted and put in the worst light possible.

I don't really see the reason for it. I didn't agree with Stannis portrayal but there were thematic reasons for making him a bit of a villain, but I don't see the narrative benifits in making Edmure a loser.

Sonmi:

Dreiko:
So, now that this is over apparently, should one read the books or watch the show? I was waiting until either the last book or last tv episode had come out before deciding to get into this.

I know some people are angry that the blond girl went crazy or something because the tv series diverges from the book with regards to darkness and characterization but somehow retains the same ending as the book but I wonder if that's alleviated if you just read the book.

Don't watch past season 4.

Season 4 had the utter cheese fest that was Karl Tanner.

And the disappointing resolution of Yara saving Theon from Ramsey.

And Tywin seemed to take lightly that his daughter was fucking his son and making incest babies.

Thaluikhain:
Apparently a few plastic water bottles are visible in one scene, and people are annoyed.

Well I think its because of the coffee cup, Jaime's returned hand, forgetting to animate Dany on Drogon, and now the water bottles...
It makes you feel like they just rushed this season, not really caring about the details.

Silentpony:

Thaluikhain:
Apparently a few plastic water bottles are visible in one scene, and people are annoyed.

Well I think its because of the coffee cup, Jaime's returned hand, forgetting to animate Dany on Drogon, and now the water bottles...
It makes you feel like they just rushed this season, not really caring about the details.

Oh sure, I get that. Of course, I've never been a fan, and I've found it annoying how people keep going on about how awesome it is, so the whole "they just didn't care thing" isn't personally annoying. I do dislike unprofessional behaviour in zillion dollar productions, though.

Also: https://chaser.com.au/general-news/jk_rowling_announces_jon_snow_is_gay/?fbclid=IwAR1P__dNSwnUWg_X6BjN5ZVso6QmGt-qcwxWQZNX4h19-YG50Jxfc1Jfymk

Thaluikhain:

Silentpony:

Thaluikhain:
Apparently a few plastic water bottles are visible in one scene, and people are annoyed.

Well I think its because of the coffee cup, Jaime's returned hand, forgetting to animate Dany on Drogon, and now the water bottles...
It makes you feel like they just rushed this season, not really caring about the details.

Oh sure, I get that. Of course, I've never been a fan, and I've found it annoying how people keep going on about how awesome it is, so the whole "they just didn't care thing" isn't personally annoying. I do dislike unprofessional behaviour in zillion dollar productions, though.

Also: https://chaser.com.au/general-news/jk_rowling_announces_jon_snow_is_gay/?fbclid=IwAR1P__dNSwnUWg_X6BjN5ZVso6QmGt-qcwxWQZNX4h19-YG50Jxfc1Jfymk

I was never a huge fan either, just kinda got roped into it when a watch night emerged among my friends. I think its less unprofessionalism on the editors part and more the producers/writers were just so cannot be assed that no one else was allowed to give a rats ass either.

Editor 1: Should we go over the episode one more time? Just make sure we didn't miss anything?
Editor 2: Its nearly 9am and the bosses are already out to lunch. Who cares anymore?!

Gotta admit, kinda digging the "Where's Wally" meta-game where instead of Wally, we get modern day beverage containers to discover. It's...experimental.

image

Silentpony:
Editor 2: Its nearly 9am and the bosses are already out to lunch. Who cares anymore?!

Well according to at least one episode's DVD commentary, it wasn't so much they were out to lunch as it was hanging out in the green room being #MeToo allegations that have yet to surface...

Eacaraxe:
What's funny about this, and really only speaks to how awful D&D are as showrunners, is Edmure's claim was pretty accurate and he made a pretty strong case for taking the crown. The only thing invalidating that is "lol, Edmure's a pussy" fanservice.

Certainly smarter than an ascension that reeks of the same nepotism that caused the war in the first place, that all but ensures an even bigger, deadlier war shortly thereafter.

If it was Book Edmure, I'd agree with you. But Show Edmure is an annoying ponce, so he can fuck off. Tho yeah, the outcome they chose in the show is pretty much guaranteed to cause more problems in the future. More wars. More pointless death. More misery.

Maybe that's the point? That it doesn't really matter who the big dogs are? That it doesn't change anything? The game of thrones will continue just as it always has.

Chimpzy:

Eacaraxe:
What's funny about this, and really only speaks to how awful D&D are as showrunners, is Edmure's claim was pretty accurate and he made a pretty strong case for taking the crown. The only thing invalidating that is "lol, Edmure's a pussy" fanservice.

Certainly smarter than an ascension that reeks of the same nepotism that caused the war in the first place, that all but ensures an even bigger, deadlier war shortly thereafter.

If it was Book Edmure, I'd agree with you. But Show Edmure is an annoying ponce, so he can fuck off. Tho yeah, the outcome they chose in the show is pretty much guaranteed to cause more problems in the future. More wars. More pointless death. More misery.

Maybe that's the point? That it doesn't really matter who the big dogs are? That it doesn't change anything? The game of thrones will continue just as it always has.

They resolved the issue for this generation. Everyone wants to rebuild and solidify their hold on power. With the North going its own way, the Vale is now the most powerful military and political entity left in the Six Kingdoms but they are too small to hold the Reach or Stormlands. A Stark ruling in King's Landing, even if just a figurehead, give the new regime legitimacy and keeps things stable long enough for the new regimes to solidify their hold. In a few generations the new Houses will grow powerful and ambitious enough that a new game of thrones will start.

Neurotic Void Melody:
image

Okay, Brienne, Davos and Gendry I recognise, but I have no clue who those other two dudes are supposed to be. Is the guy next to Gendry supposed to be another Baratheon bannerman, since the others are, one way or another, connected to that house? And the one on far right, that's not Ilyn Payne is it? I knew his actor was recovering from cancer, would be nice if they'd manage to get one last cameo in for him

Chimpzy:

Ok, yeah, that council presiding over Tyrion's trial and subsequent choosing of a king. Not sure why Brienne, Sam, Davos and Arya are on it since none of them have much in the way of actual political clout. No lands, or wealth, or the all important armies. Early seasons made a point of it that titles mean nothing without the power to back them up, so I'm assuming they're there because they're surviving named characters.

Sam is the head of House Tarly now. They sort of gloss over that though. Davos has been the right-hand of Stannis AND Jon. He very much deserves to be there. Plus this was a war trial council, they did not gather expecting to decide on the next king, it was to decide Jon and Tyrion's fates. That is also likely why Brienne the Knight and heir of a notable house (Tarth) and Arya, who remember, IS a noble too, and The Hero of Westeros.

Eacaraxe:

Not to mention, Edmure has blood relation to Sansa which would make him a key strategic and diplomatic player in relations between North and South.

Her brother, a full Stark is made King but 'muh independence!', why the fuck would she care about some whipped Tully uncle?

CM156:

Saelune:

CM156:

Jon basically pardoned all the wildlings despite their reeving of the mostly defenseless peasants. Olly's stabbing was entirely predictable.

Predictable, but not justified. I don't hate Olly for killing Ygritte. I hate Olly for killing Jon. If he killed Tormund I also would not have faulted him.

I guess that's a fair way of looking at it, even if I can't fault him for stabbing Jon.

Absolutely can fault the kid who thinks that murdering the guy who wants to end racism and bring peace is the thing to do. I repeat, Fuck Olly. I don't fault revenge, I do fault taking your revenge out on the wrong people.

Eacaraxe:

Silentpony:
Editor 2: Its nearly 9am and the bosses are already out to lunch. Who cares anymore?!

Well according to at least one episode's DVD commentary, it wasn't so much they were out to lunch as it was hanging out in the green room being #MeToo allegations that have yet to surface...

wait seriously? Of all reasons to be lazy, sexually harassing the interns might be the most annoying.

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