So! Avengers: Endgame

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Silentpony:

Marik2:

Silentpony:
That always bothered me. Its a great movie! Same with Iron Man 2 and Captain America 1! Why all the hate?!

iron man 2 sucked. the only trilogy to mostly worked and be consistently decent was the captain murica trilogy.

Iron man 2 was leagues better than 3 was, where they just lied in the marketing and pulled the rug out from under an actual MC villain in favor of...some dude...

iron man 2 and 3 both sucked equally. the problem that marvel has is that it doesnt have that many good antagonists. the only good antagonists come from spider man, xmen, and fantastic four with doctor doom.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zPEtyAsM94

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaNWFHLy2NI

noobmaster69

Marik2:

why in the world do you think that spiderman was the best out of the mcu? it was mediocre at best.

Because it...wasn't mediocre?

Okay, I guess it was because it's paced well, it's got good protagonists, a good antagonist, good action, and is really funny. That's pretty much what I want from a Spider-Man movie, and it delivered.

Is it the best Spider-Man movie? No. It's #4 for me. But it is the best MCU film that I've seen.

Marik2:
I honestly don't understand why people dont like the ultron movie.

It's got a similar problem to the other Avengers movies for me in that it's bloated. But even by those standards it's still bloated, because of the time we waste at the farm, the forced Black Widow/Hulk romance, the Thor vision quest nonsense, and Ultron himself. He's...okay, but the film's trying to have it both ways with him, alternating between megalomaniacal ham, and trying to make him come off as deep (world sucks, human sucks, I have to destroy it to stop the suckitude). Oh, and considering that everything in the film is essentially Tony's fault, and there isn't a proper reckoning with that until much later down the line...leaves a bit of a bitter taste.

I came to the realization around Ant-Man and the Wasp that I think the MCU's at its best when it's focusing on smaller, character-based stories with a healthy dose of humour, because the larger ones just don't cut it for me.

One thing I have to mention is there was one opportunity I think the writers missed.

This would have provided the perfect justification to depower CM a lot so she's back down to pre-"breaks every story possible by existing" levels for future movies, as she's hilariously far far too powerful right now. Chances are they'll do the same thing in her next movie anyway, but that would have let her get through that step early.

McElroy:

Casual Shinji:
Speaking of her, in the final big battle when all the ladies gather together to charge it was kinda hilarious to see Mantis charge along with them. Like, she's a charming character and all, but what the hell is she gonna do in the thick of it?

I rarely use the word 'cringe', but that shot was cringe. To me there's another problem: Pepper. She's not a heroine at all, she flies in a magical exosuit superweapon that is controlled by an AI. Yes, she was badass with the extremis.exe installed but that was years ago already. The same with Spider-Man though maybe only 50% because his suit doesn't fly. And the new trailer? Freakin' Zeke Gyggendahl and Zendaya's ""MJ"" can go screw it.

It was a bit on the nose, but I had no real problem with it other than Mantis sticking out like a sore thumb. And Pepper was mainly there for the emotional beats. And yeah, she's not a "hero", but at this point the Iron Man suits don't even need Tony to opperate effectively. He could literally just be hiding in a bunker somewhere pressing a few buttons and it'd be just as effective. Rhodey also has just as much reason to be in an Iron Man suit as Pepper, i.e. none. The Iron Man suits have never been established as needing skill to opperate so it really doesn't matter who you stick in there anymore.

Marik2:
noobmaster69

Hehe, douchebags living in basements playing fortnite, got a chuckle out of me.

But, any scene that involves Korg is a fun scene in my book.

bluegate:

Samtemdo8:

bluegate:
"Cringe" is a verb and shouldn't be used in that way unless you're a ditzy 12 year old girl talking to her BFFs on her phone, shame on you.

Instead, try the more healthy alternative; cringeworthy.

Are you saying that cringe has become a dirty word comparable to the N word?

No, I'm saying that you're using a verb as if it were an adjective and that it's wrong to do so.

Correct usage;
I cringed when he told me that he watched My Little Pony.
The news of the new Netflix show made me cringe.

Incorrect usage;
I don't like that show, it's totally cringe!

Damned youngsters nowadays and their internet speak, can't even use verbs correctly! We're all heading towards Idiocracy at this point, rabble rabble rabble.

Probably better to just accept it. Unfortunately "cringe" as a verb is just as likely to become the "correct millennial English." I've been fighting the non-word "normalcy" ever since 2001 when some idiots (and most popularized by a former president) forgot the correct word to use was NORMALITY. "Cringe" seems to be a truncation of a verbal approximation that sounds more like "cring-ey." As opposed to the correct "cringeworthy" or the hyphenated "cringe-inducing." Then again every time I despair that the kids these days aren't apparently learning proper English... I do have to remind myself that we aren't still speaking West Saxon or even Middle English anymore either. "Cringe," "Cringy," and "Cringey" all have entries on urban dictionary... probably only a matter of time now.

Silentpony:
So I got bored last night and just decided to go see this.

It was boring. And it wasn't just me. This was a Saturday night, opening weekend showing, theater was packed, every screen is showing this movie and the crowd seemed just as bored as I was. No one clapped, no one cheered, no one laughed or cried or did anything. It was dead silent the entire movie, as if everyone was asleep, and even in the end when the credits came up, nothing. Dead silence then people started to leave. Like even during the Big Moments when <Redacted> does <Redacted> and <Censored> goes [Deleted!], nothing. And I know there's meant to be a reaction because the movie awkwardly stops after jokes for laugh beats, or big moments for applause. And it got nothing. So here we have Tony Stark telling a joke, pause for laugh, no laugh, the characters are awkwardly standing around for a few heartbeats to let the non-existent laughter die down.

Like kinda' just a dud. Like this is a 100% accurate representation of my movie going experience with this crowd

That happened in my place as well. People were on their phones and yawning.

bluegate:

Marik2:
noobmaster69

Hehe, douchebags living in basements playing fortnite, got a chuckle out of me.

But, any scene that involves Korg is a fun scene in my book.

I'm still bitter than one of Hulks best storylines was reduced to a B-plot and comic relief.

Silentpony:

Marik2:
I honestly don't understand why people dont like the ultron movie.

That always bothered me. Its a great movie! Same with Iron Man 2 and Captain America 1! Why all the hate?!

I'm fine with Iron Man 2. Hammer probably being the best. To me, Ultron (the villain) was an attempt at a better villain but didn't quite stick the landing. Also, the problem is solved by doing the same mistake that caused the problem. Don't understand the hate for Thor 2, which was way better than 1.

But Captain America 1 was a jingoistic, self-righteous, pompous propaganda machine that is like watching Trump speak. Feels over reals. The worst part is that my daughter is getting old enough to start seeing these movies, and I'm going to have to watch that turd burger again soon. I'm not looking forward to it.

Xprimentyl:

trunkage:

Just my take but I thought that everyone was getting a punch in on Thanos. I thought they were trying to show that brawn wont win this one, even together.

Also, I know its only a few extra scenes but adding more minion killing wouldnt have done it for me. She already killed spaceship minion, that was enough. The last battle was great but it was just a bunch of people punting a football towards a van. There is only so much that of that that I could stand.

And why do you think she was sent to solve all MCU problems? What in Captain Marvel (movie) told us that? She solved an issue (same as any other MCU movie) but now somehow that means she's supposed to be the only problem solver in the MCU? She literally tells the Leftovers that they're good enough and she has other issues to solve.

But, I would agree, more blast over punching, considering that's how the last movie ended. She blasted instead of punched... becuase anything else doesnt make sense. It's like a bad guy, with a gun, moves forward towards a protaganist so they can go hand to hand. Shouldnt that be in some henchman manual somewhere? Gun are best used at a distance.

this movie was such a let down after infinity war

Marik2:
this movie was such a let down after infinity war

Also after Marvel making such a big fucking deal about Captain Marvel in anticipation of the Avengers finale.

trunkage:

Xprimentyl:

trunkage:

Just my take but I thought that everyone was getting a punch in on Thanos. I thought they were trying to show that brawn wont win this one, even together.

Also, I know its only a few extra scenes but adding more minion killing wouldnt have done it for me. She already killed spaceship minion, that was enough. The last battle was great but it was just a bunch of people punting a football towards a van. There is only so much that of that that I could stand.

And why do you think she was sent to solve all MCU problems? What in Captain Marvel (movie) told us that? She solved an issue (same as any other MCU movie) but now somehow that means she's supposed to be the only problem solver in the MCU? She literally tells the Leftovers that they're good enough and she has other issues to solve.

But, I would agree, more blast over punching, considering that's how the last movie ended. She blasted instead of punched... becuase anything else doesnt make sense. It's like a bad guy, with a gun, moves forward towards a protaganist so they can go hand to hand. Shouldnt that be in some henchman manual somewhere? Gun are best used at a distance.

The only decent movies this franchise spanned were the captain murica movies, doctor strange, ultron, black panther, iron man, guardians 1, and infinity war. The rest were average or forgettable.

Casual Shinji:

Marik2:
this movie was such a let down after infinity war

Also after Marvel making such a big fucking deal about Captain Marvel in anticipation of the Avengers finale.

Glad I skipped over Captain Marvel. It's a shame that the marketing hyped her up to be a powerful person that would tip the scale against Thanos, but she was there for 5 minutes.

I cried. When everyone shows up for the final fight, I actually started crying. It was the Airport scene x3000 (actually more, but I am making a reference to the film).

There is a better version of the MCU that could have existed, but I never imagined this could ever have existed as a child.

Every MCU hater can go suck an egg.

Also I love the middle finger to all the sexists. I honestly just don't care, sexists can go suck an egg too.

I did not care for Captain Marvel's Tasha Yar cosplay though.

Casual Shinji:

Marik2:
this movie was such a let down after infinity war

Also after Marvel making such a big fucking deal about Captain Marvel in anticipation of the Avengers finale.

I'm pretty sure it was all just a marketing ploy to boost the Captain Marvel box office.

Marik2:
Glad I skipped over Captain Marvel. It's a shame that the marketing hyped her up to be a powerful person that would tip the scale against Thanos, but she was there for 5 minutes.

What was the story excuse again for her not being there? You'd think a mission to bring back the 50% of all life in the UNIVERSE that was decimated would require her attention, but aparently not.

Johnny Novgorod:

Casual Shinji:
Also after Marvel making such a big fucking deal about Captain Marvel in anticipation of the Avengers finale.

I'm pretty sure it was all just a marketing ploy to boost the Captain Marvel box office.

Yeah, I know, but they could've atleast made an effort. You look at Doctor Strange and he was set up to be this new powerful character (not that I saw his movie either), and then in Infinity War he actually does cool shit and feels like an important part of the movie.

The fact that half of all life is vaporized could've been used to show Carol Danvers experience the fall-out of that throughout certain parts of the universe. Again, another part where Endgame fumbles; we only get to see what the Snap did to Earth, and not even that much. All we see is a dude talking about a date he had, Cap mentioning that a river is cleaner now, and Ant-Man walking around looking at some missing posters and seeing a depressed kid on a bicycle. In Guardians 2 when Ego sets his plan in motion you get to see how it's fucking up a whole bunch of planets, making you feel the impact of the villain's actions. But in Endgame (and also partially Infinity War) there's no focus on that at all.

Also, just out of the blue here, but didn't anybody else find it a little weird that Hawkeye was having a casual family picnic just before the Snap happened? I mean, I know the dude is retired, but he really wasn't aware of anything that was happening on Earth prior, what with the alien attack on New York and Tony Stark going missing? You'd think he would've caught wind of that shit.

Saelune:
I cried. When everyone shows up for the final fight, I actually started crying. It was the Airport scene x3000 (actually more, but I am making a reference to the film).

There is a better version of the MCU that could have existed, but I never imagined this could ever have existed as a child.

Every MCU hater can go suck an egg.

Also I love the middle finger to all the sexists. I honestly just don't care, sexists can go suck an egg too.

I did not care for Captain Marvel's Tasha Yar cosplay though.

Usually, the first thing the sexist cite about Captain Marvel is that she looks butch mainly from this hair cut

Saelune:
I did not care for Captain Marvel's Tasha Yar cosplay though.

That's because it looked like an obvious wig.

But atleast we got one of the few decent jokes this movie has out of it from Rocket.

Casual Shinji:
What was the story excuse again for her not being there? You'd think a mission to bring back the 50% of all life in the UNIVERSE that was decimated would require her attention, but aparently not.

She was helping the other hundreds of alien planets also dealing with their populations being cut in half during the movie, with a scene establishing that she wouldn't be back for a couple months. Of course she comes back immediately once Thanos attacks the Avengers base.

About the only really glaring thing is that she wasn't included in the Time Heist. But it was a little character heavy already (war machine for instance didn't really do anything but sass to Nebula. Rocket poked Natalie Portman with a syringe) and adding her into there wouldn't have really helped anything but give her more lines.

Casual Shinji:

Marik2:
Glad I skipped over Captain Marvel. It's a shame that the marketing hyped her up to be a powerful person that would tip the scale against Thanos, but she was there for 5 minutes.

What was the story excuse again for her not being there? You'd think a mission to bring back the 50% of all life in the UNIVERSE that was decimated would require her attention, but aparently not.

Johnny Novgorod:

Casual Shinji:
Also after Marvel making such a big fucking deal about Captain Marvel in anticipation of the Avengers finale.

I'm pretty sure it was all just a marketing ploy to boost the Captain Marvel box office.

Yeah, I know, but they could've atleast made an effort. You look at Doctor Strange and he was set up to be this new powerful character (not that I saw his movie either), and then in Infinity War he actually does cool shit and feels like an important part of the movie.

The fact that half of all life is vaporized could've been used to show Carol Danvers experience the fall-out of that throughout certain parts of the universe. Again, another part where Endgame fumbles; we only get to see what the Snap did to Earth, and not even that much. All we see is a dude talking about a date he had, Cap mentioning that a river is cleaner now, and Ant-Man walking around looking at some missing posters and seeing a depressed kid on a bicycle. In Guardians 2 when Ego sets his plan in motion you get to see how it's fucking up a whole bunch of planets, making you feel the impact of the villain's actions. But in Endgame (and also partially Infinity War) there's no focus on that at all.

Also, just out of the blue here, but didn't anybody else find it a little weird that Hawkeye was having a casual family picnic just before the Snap happened? I mean, I know the dude is retired, but he really wasn't aware of anything that was happening on Earth prior, what with the alien attack on New York and Tony Stark going missing? You'd think he would've caught wind of that shit.

He wasn't retired he was under house arrest because he resisted during Civil War. This movie isn't really about Captain Marvel or the other alien planets though, it's about the core Avengers. Infinity War was basically a movie about Thanos, End Game was about closure to Cap, Thor and Tony's story arcs (and Natasha, though she didn't really have an arc). While I'm sure Thor will turn up in Guardians I doubt he'll be playing a central role. He'll be like another Drax and just be there to provide comic relief, muscle and possibly exposition.

Also you don't need to be sexist to think Captain Marvel's haircut looks weird.

Here Comes Tomorrow:
Also you don't need to be sexist to think Captain Marvel's haircut looks weird.

That's not what I claimed

Saelune:

Also I love the middle finger to all the sexists.

What middle finger? You mean the scene where the girls charge through the army instead of having Carol fly AWAY from the army?

I did not care for Captain Marvel's Tasha Yar cosplay though.

Yeah, me either.

trunkage:

Here Comes Tomorrow:
Also you don't need to be sexist to think Captain Marvel's haircut looks weird.

That's not what I claimed

So I'm not allowed to strawman but you are?

Didn't that version of Captain Marvel get the same haircut in comics anyway? I never saw it as a big deal other than, "hey, hardcore comics fans, remember this?".

Here Comes Tomorrow:

trunkage:

Here Comes Tomorrow:
Also you don't need to be sexist to think Captain Marvel's haircut looks weird.

That's not what I claimed

So I'm not allowed to strawman but you are?

image

Pray tell, why do sexists hate her haircut then?

CoCage:
Didn't that version of Captain Marvel get the same haircut in comics anyway? I never saw it sa a big deal other than, "hey, hardcore comics fans, remember this?".

Yes.
image

image

Fans like it.

https://www.bustle.com/p/captain-marvels-endgame-haircut-make-a-major-statement-fans-are-on-board-17298240

undeadsuitor:

Casual Shinji:
What was the story excuse again for her not being there? You'd think a mission to bring back the 50% of all life in the UNIVERSE that was decimated would require her attention, but aparently not.

She was helping the other hundreds of alien planets also dealing with their populations being cut in half during the movie, with a scene establishing that she wouldn't be back for a couple months. Of course she comes back immediately once Thanos attacks the Avengers base.

It would've benefitted the movie to actually show some of this. In fact, it might've been better had the end of Infinity War launched Phase 4 and given us a couple of movies showing what the Snap caused throughout the universe. As it is now it feels less like half of all life in the universe and more like half of the heroes and maybe a couple of other people.

About the only really glaring thing is that she wasn't included in the Time Heist. But it was a little character heavy already (war machine for instance didn't really do anything but sass to Nebula. Rocket poked Natalie Portman with a syringe) and adding her into there wouldn't have really helped anything but give her more lines.

That's my point. At the start of Endgame Carol Danvers is barely holding back the tears when she hears what happened, you'd think she'd want to be included in this 1-in-14.000.000 shot to reverse all that.

The amount of screen time she ends up getting could've worked if she was a mystery character whose allegiance is unknown, but as it is it just really feels like there was no point to this character.

Here Comes Tomorrow:
He wasn't retired he was under house arrest because he resisted during Civil War. This movie isn't really about Captain Marvel or the other alien planets though, it's about the core Avengers. Infinity War was basically a movie about Thanos, End Game was about closure to Cap, Thor and Tony's story arcs (and Natasha, though she didn't really have an arc). While I'm sure Thor will turn up in Guardians I doubt he'll be playing a central role. He'll be like another Drax and just be there to provide comic relief, muscle and possibly exposition.

Infinity War managed to make Thanos the main character while still allowing the other characters to breath and take their spot in the movie. Endgame is way too cluncky to make anyone shine. The movie is about Cap, Tony, and Thor, but none of them feel as engaging as they were in previous movies. And heck, Thor was just a punchline through most of the movie.

And regarding Captain Marvel, if the movie wasn't about her why did Marvel hype her up to be this massive player? Endgame itself frames her as this important character from the very start, only to just forget her until I guess she's important again at the very end. The little amount of time Dr. Strange was in Thor 3 felt more meaningful than Captain Marvel did in Endgame.

trunkage:

Saelune:
I cried. When everyone shows up for the final fight, I actually started crying. It was the Airport scene x3000 (actually more, but I am making a reference to the film).

There is a better version of the MCU that could have existed, but I never imagined this could ever have existed as a child.

Every MCU hater can go suck an egg.

Also I love the middle finger to all the sexists. I honestly just don't care, sexists can go suck an egg too.

I did not care for Captain Marvel's Tasha Yar cosplay though.

Usually, the first thing the sexist cite about Captain Marvel is that she looks butch mainly from this hair cut

I just liked her longer hair. Then suddenly time jump-hair cut. Plus I was always used to her older appearance. Though the costume updates was mostly one of the better changes with the MCU. Cap vs Cap was clear evidence of that, I actually burst out laughing seeing Avengers 1 Cap's outfit. I WAS glad that he shaved though. I like him better without the beard.

I also didn't like Hawkeye's haircut, but I mean, it just made his 'Im edgelord Ronin now' sillier.

Casual Shinji:
snip

This is true. But then again the movie already does a lot of telling and not showing

Like how Tony stark perfects time travel off screen between scenes with two lines of dialog

undeadsuitor:

Casual Shinji:
What was the story excuse again for her not being there? You'd think a mission to bring back the 50% of all life in the UNIVERSE that was decimated would require her attention, but aparently not.

She was helping the other hundreds of alien planets also dealing with their populations being cut in half during the movie, with a scene establishing that she wouldn't be back for a couple months. Of course she comes back immediately once Thanos attacks the Avengers base.

It makes perfect sense really.

She is out in the universe helping planets dealing with the fact that 50% of all life disappeared and suddenly all life is back, what would be the first thing she'd do?

Try and regroup with the group of people that she has been working with for the past 5 years, she could try to call them, but Avengers HQ is in shambles so her phone probably doesn't work. Only option is to rush back to earth and... oh my, what's this, a giant space ship attacking the general area where Avengers HQ used to be?

Majestic Manatee:
Fans like it.

And yet, those images are case examples of how bland, hollow, and transparent the "feminist" take on Captain Marvel is, and how disingenuous the "defense" of it really is. Criticisms of the character prior to this are founded on a misapplication of gaze theory in comics, which in turn completely disregard comics' quasi-classical aesthetic tradition. By that I mean the characters are essentially drawn nude, but that nudity is censored by inking costumes onto them.

Yet here we have post-reboot Captain Marvel, in the same poses from the same angles, and in yet another skin-tight outfit that swaps flesh tones for blues and reds. Do I really need to link Girls in Yoga Pants to demonstrate exactly how facile the "aesthetic" reboot is? Whinge all you like about the 2005-2012 leotard, boots, gloves, and sash for showing skin, but that costume at least looked like she was wearing fabric because time had been taken to draw and ink relief, stitching, bunching, and texture.

The funny thing is, the short haircut is the one thing I like about MCU Captain Marvel.

Eacaraxe:

Majestic Manatee:
Fans like it.

And yet, those images are case examples of how bland, hollow, and transparent the "feminist" take on Captain Marvel is, and how disingenuous the "defense" of it really is. Criticisms of the character prior to this are founded on a misapplication of gaze theory in comics, which in turn completely disregard comics' quasi-classical aesthetic tradition. By that I mean the characters are essentially drawn nude, but that nudity is censored by inking costumes onto them.

Yet here we have post-reboot Captain Marvel, in the same poses from the same angles, and in yet another skin-tight outfit that swaps flesh tones for blues and reds. Do I really need to link Girls in Yoga Pants to demonstrate exactly how facile the "aesthetic" reboot is? Whinge all you like about the 2005-2012 leotard, boots, gloves, and sash for showing skin, but that costume at least looked like she was wearing fabric and not body paint.

The funny thing is, the short haircut is the one thing I like about MCU Captain Marvel.

Captain Marvel was always a feminist hero. There was just a lower bar in the 70's. Ms. in Ms.Marvel at the time was a feminist action, as it only denoted gender, and was independent of marital status, unlike Miss and Mrs. That was a big deal then. Plus she was a physically strong and independent woman.

Progress happens in steps.

Here Comes Tomorrow:

trunkage:

Here Comes Tomorrow:
Also you don't need to be sexist to think Captain Marvel's haircut looks weird.

That's not what I claimed

So I'm not allowed to strawman but you are?

That not my problem with your comment.

I said sexists use this comment. (Also, note that I put in that they link this to her being too butch or mascluine. Which no one on this thread has linked) I didn't say you are sexist if you use this comment.

The sexist I was talking about were all the guys with YouTube video explaining how bad Captain Marvel is. I remember looking up these guys after the Larsen comment. They were repeating themselves and this was one common comment. So yes, it's specific sexist and I was strawmaning all sexists.

But no, the comment about her hair wasn't about calling you sexist. It had nothing to do with you.

So what now? The new spiderman trailer is talking about parallel universes, so they can easily fit fantastic 4, xmen, and deadpool if they wanted. They just need a powerful antagonist for the next avengers movie.

Marik2:
So what now? The new spiderman trailer is talking about parallel universes, so they can easily fit fantastic 4, xmen, and deadpool if they wanted. They just need a powerful antagonist for the next avengers movie.

Into the Spiderverse

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