Double Trailer Sci Fi Special: Star Trek: Picard and Terminator Dark Fate.

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So there is sci fi country for these old men and women.

Picard has lots of potential, naturally. Can't discern more than that.

Is it bad that the only Star Trek related production I've ever gotten into is The Orville?

PsychedelicDiamond:
Is it bad that the only Star Trek related production I've ever gotten into is The Orville?

Yes.

Go watch the Original Series (Preferably the best episodes)

Then the Next Generation (Mostly the vast majority of episodes, but the early season started rather weak, the saying that the show got better when Riker grew a beard was no joke though)

Then Deep Space 9 (Arguably the greatest Star Trek piece of media ever according to some, even I have to give it a full watch sometimes to see if its true, but so far my impression is positive)

And the movies recommended as this: Star Trek The Moition Picture (Treat it as the finale to the Original Series).

Wrath of Khan (The undisputed best Star Trek movie)

The Search for Spock (I actually like this movie despite it being relegated as a bad Trek film)

The Undiscovered Country (The last TOS movie and it was a good one, same writers behind Wrath of Khan)

First Contact (The Second TNG movie becuase the first movie was rather weak)

And bare with me. Nemesis, the worst Star Trek movie ever I actually think is ok-ish send off of the TNG crew.

You can still watch the remaining shows and movies are your own if you want, but I avoid watching them.

Both trailers look pretty good. Though the Picard trailer could show a little more

Oh boy, a liquid Terminator, what a surprise. I can't wait for this installment of a dead franchise to be slightly beneath mediocre.

Look, I know that Robert Patrick just isn't healthy enough to play a Terminator anymore, but could we at least get someone to understudy for him? No one else has managed to pull off the subdued menace that he could, and every other outing has just felt like self-parody.

Gotta say, though: Linda Hamilton is still badass.

What I want to know is why everyone's so worked up about Romulus, yet no-one remembers poor Remus. Yes, not many people like Nemesis, but still, what, are we only meant to mourn for the romulans?

But that aside, what else can I comment on? Yay for viticulture still being a thing in the late 24th century?

Anyway, as for the Terminator trailer, it actually looks better than I thought, and the T-1000 (if it even is one) looks cool with the black colour scheme it's got, but I'm still on the fence. I mean, I did like Salvation and Genisys, but I have to swallow the entire premise, that this is the second time we've got a 'retcon film,' that Sarah Connor just happened to be there, with weapons that included an RPG (so much for JD being averted), and that we can assume that JD will still happen, only this time John Connor (where is he anyway?) won't be the leader, but Dani. Like, in essence, the film touches on a lot of stuff I've felt Terminator (not so much the films, the wider franchise) has done poorly in the past, but at least makes it look "kewl."

Like, I dunno, at this point I'd have preferred two sequels to Salvation, so you could at least bring the series full circle before doing the "screw it, let's just go back to T2 and work from there."

Samtemdo8:

Wrath of Khan (The undisputed best Star Trek movie)

First Contact is better. And if you disagree, too bad.

And bare with me. Nemesis, the worst Star Trek movie ever

Cough*Generations*Cough

Casual Shinji:
Oh boy, a liquid Terminator, what a surprise. I can't wait for this installment of a dead franchise to be slightly beneath mediocre.

Its 2 Terminators. The Liquid one grafting on a Metal Skeleton Robot Terminator

Casual Shinji:
Oh boy, a liquid Terminator, what a surprise. I can't wait for this installment of a dead franchise to be slightly beneath mediocre.

I will see Dark Fate for Linda Hamilton, but otherwise, there are only 2 Terminator films. The rest are bad fan fics (3 & 5), and okay one off.

Picard will be great, but I am not a big Trek fan.

CoCage:

Casual Shinji:
snip

Picard will be great, but I am not a big Trek fan.

I really hope so, but I am expecting the worse before hoping for the best.

Hawki:

Samtemdo8:
Wrath of Khan (The undisputed best Star Trek movie)

First Contact is better. And if you disagree, too bad.

Those are both fine movies, but I like The Undiscovered Country just a bit better.

It's a shame there were no DS9 movies.

Hawki:

And bare with me. Nemesis, the worst Star Trek movie ever

Cough*Generations*Cough

I'm sorry, both of you seem to have forgotten the time Kirk found God, wrestled a three titted cat, and tried to teach Spock row-row-row your boat.

erttheking:

Hawki:

And bare with me. Nemesis, the worst Star Trek movie ever

Cough*Generations*Cough

I'm sorry, both of you seem to have forgotten the time Kirk found God, wrestled a three titted cat, and tried to teach Spock row-row-row your boat.

No, I don't remember that at all.

Isn't it weird how the Star Trek films just went from IV to VI with no V?

09philj:

erttheking:

Hawki:

Cough*Generations*Cough

I'm sorry, both of you seem to have forgotten the time Kirk found God, wrestled a three titted cat, and tried to teach Spock row-row-row your boat.

No, I don't remember that at all.

Isn't it weird how the Star Trek films just went from IV to VI with no V?

Yes, quite strange.

Linda Hamilton looks silly as hell in the new Terminator.

Seriously, remember the movie RED? It's like someone watched that and didn't realize that the "old people as badass action heroes" angle was being played for laughs.

Going to add my voice of dissent to this and declare that DS9 is appalling rubbish for almost all of its run. Some exceptions being when it stops being DS9 and becomes, say, a show about a black guy dealing with racism in early 20th century US.

PsychedelicDiamond:
Is it bad that the only Star Trek related production I've ever gotten into is The Orville?

Nah. Orville is definitely its only thing. It has very little to do with Star Trek. Probably the closest it is to is Deep Space 9. But not really

I just wish they try funny stuff. They try to be dirty and pretend that's funny

Thaluikhain:
Going to add my voice of dissent to this and declare that DS9 is appalling rubbish for almost all of its run. Some exceptions being when it stops being DS9 and becomes, say, a show about a black guy dealing with racism in early 20th century US.

That's pretty much how I feel about TNG. Meaningless, meandering, uninterested in characters or developing them. Definitely more self righteous and has a stick up it's own butt

trunkage:
That's pretty much how I feel about TNG. Meaningless, meandering, uninterested in characters or developing them. Definitely more self righteous and has a stick up it's own butt

I tend to agree with that, but then TNG got it right by not making the show about things it wasn't going to do. No character arcs, just monsters of the week, ethical dilemmas and Picard giving speeches.

DS9 also was pretty meaningless, meandering, uninterested in characters or developing them, but then tried to make things they weren't interested in doing well the basis of the show.

Not having plot or character arcs, not building the show around them is the right move when you're not going to do them well. I get the feeling that DS9 didn't care about those things more than TNG did.

They are never going to recapture the magic of the first two Terminator movies but I kinda like the new trailer. Grandma with a shotgun and old Arnie gave it an almost offbeat, campy style and I wish they went all the way with it instead of another crazy special effects action flick. But still, looks better than any other Terminator movie after T2 save perhaps Terminator Salvation. Loved that movie though I seem to be the only one. I'm fine with Terminator just being about the fight against robots and evil computers in the far future. There are still so much cool concepts unexplored like what kind of world a sentient AI would want to create. We've only ever seen the beginning not an advanced state.

Thaluikhain:

trunkage:
That's pretty much how I feel about TNG. Meaningless, meandering, uninterested in characters or developing them. Definitely more self righteous and has a stick up it's own butt

I tend to agree with that, but then TNG got it right by not making the show about things it wasn't going to do. No character arcs, just monsters of the week, ethical dilemmas and Picard giving speeches.

DS9 also was pretty meaningless, meandering, uninterested in characters or developing them, but then tried to make things they weren't interested in doing well the basis of the show.

Not having plot or character arcs, not building the show around them is the right move when you're not going to do them well. I get the feeling that DS9 didn't care about those things more than TNG did.

Arcs is what I like, so it's going to get more point from me. Sometimes monster of the week is good but rarely. I wouldn't pick a monster of the week episode in my top 10 Star Trek episodes. To mind, I can only think of Stargate's Windows of Opportunity and Doctor Who's Blink as monster of the week that could fit into a top 10

Never mind flogging the horse to death, this is flogging the corpse into a huge pool of bloody goo.

erttheking:

Hawki:

And bare with me. Nemesis, the worst Star Trek movie ever

Cough*Generations*Cough

I'm sorry, both of you seem to have forgotten the time Kirk found God, wrestled a three titted cat, and tried to teach Spock row-row-row your boat.

No, I didn't forget. I actually quite like Final Frontier.

trunkage:
Nah. Orville is definitely its only thing. It has very little to do with Star Trek. Probably the closest it is to is Deep Space 9. But not really

DS9? Really?

A show where a ship's mandate is exploration is most similar to a show where the characters have a fixed base of operations?

Agema:
Never mind flogging the horse to death, this is flogging the corpse into a huge pool of bloody goo.

But then the goo reforms into the T-1000.

The Rogue Wolf:
Look, I know that Robert Patrick just isn't healthy enough to play a Terminator anymore, but could we at least get someone to understudy for him? No one else has managed to pull off the subdued menace that he could, and every other outing has just felt like self-parody.

Gotta say, though: Linda Hamilton is still badass.

You can tell the new guy is trying to do Patrick's stoic inexorable advance thing, but it feels like he's taking the expressionless a bit too far, and he comes off as blank rather than coldly menacing.

Chimpzy:

The Rogue Wolf:
Look, I know that Robert Patrick just isn't healthy enough to play a Terminator anymore, but could we at least get someone to understudy for him? No one else has managed to pull off the subdued menace that he could, and every other outing has just felt like self-parody.

Gotta say, though: Linda Hamilton is still badass.

You can tell the new guy is trying to do Patrick's stoic inexorable advance thing, but it feels like he's taking the expressionless a bit too far, and he comes off as blank rather than coldly menacing.

I dunno, but this isn't the second time the T-1000 has been used in a film - remember Genisys?

I think part of Patrick's appeal in the context of T2, if you go into it blind, you're left with the impression that he's a Resistance fighter. He's much more capable of human interaction than Arnie, and comes off as charming. So not only is there a 180 in context with him, but a 180 in character portrayal, and even then, he can still be charming when he needs to be (e.g. when impersonating John's foster mother). Skipping ahead to T3 and Genisys for instance, there's absolutely no ambiguity in who the "bad" Terminator is.

Hawki:
I dunno, but this isn't the second time the T-1000 has been used in a film - remember Genisys?

I think part of Patrick's appeal in the context of T2, if you go into it blind, you're left with the impression that he's a Resistance fighter. He's much more capable of human interaction than Arnie, and comes off as charming. So not only is there a 180 in context with him, but a 180 in character portrayal, and even then, he can still be charming when he needs to be (e.g. when impersonating John's foster mother). Skipping ahead to T3 and Genisys for instance, there's absolutely no ambiguity in who the "bad" Terminator is.

Agreed. Though we may be jumping the gun here. All we've seen of the new Terminator baddie are parts of the obligatory "chased by an unstoppable machine" and "good and bad Terminator fight in a factory" scenes.

STP is probably going to suck like all hell, but at least Terminator seems to be bringing at least some interesting ideas to the table. Might just be me though.

Chimpzy:
You can tell the new guy is trying to do Patrick's stoic inexorable advance thing, but it feels like he's taking the expressionless a bit too far, and he comes off as blank rather than coldly menacing.

I think he tries so hard, he almost looks like he's about to bust out laughing. The Terminator role just isn't for him.

Hawki:

trunkage:
Nah. Orville is definitely its only thing. It has very little to do with Star Trek. Probably the closest it is to is Deep Space 9. But not really

DS9? Really?

A show where a ship's mandate is exploration is most similar to a show where the characters have a fixed base of operations?

Its more about politcs, religion and the federation is sometimes morally questionable. For example, the season finale of the Orville had a resolution to two faction with one not gaining rights but the other side promised not to attack. In other Star Trek series, there would have been a magical solution to the problem. In Orville, the federation (I can't remember their actual name) is far more nuanced than 'good guys.'

Also, first season was more exploration. Second was more repeatedly dealing with the Moclans, Krill and Kaelons

You know what oddly impresses me most about the Terminator trailer is that it never once (that I heard) used the iconic Terminator refrain. Otherwise it looks alright, but only a viewing will decide if its a worthy addition to the canon.

stroopwafel:
They are never going to recapture the magic of the first two Terminator movies but I kinda like the new trailer. Grandma with a shotgun and old Arnie gave it an almost offbeat, campy style and I wish they went all the way with it instead of another crazy special effects action flick. But still, looks better than any other Terminator movie after T2 save perhaps Terminator Salvation. Loved that movie though I seem to be the only one. I'm fine with Terminator just being about the fight against robots and evil computers in the far future. There are still so much cool concepts unexplored like what kind of world a sentient AI would want to create. We've only ever seen the beginning not an advanced state.

No, I liked Salvation except for two things: it was not the 'future war' teased in the openings of T1 and T2 and I think the ending they went with was weak compared to the one they had planned.

erttheking:

Hawki:

And bare with me. Nemesis, the worst Star Trek movie ever

Cough*Generations*Cough

I'm sorry, both of you seem to have forgotten the time Kirk found God, wrestled a three titted cat, and tried to teach Spock row-row-row your boat.

Personally I think final frontier is the least bad of the three because unlike the the other two it doesn't really have any effect on the series as a whole (its events are pretty much never brought up again). It also helps that it sometimes ventures into the realm of so bad it's good.

Generations and Nemisis both haphazardly killed off iconic characters as well as the Enterprise D. For me Generations is probably the worst because it was at best boring where as Nemesis at least had some entertaining fights.

Leg End:
STP is probably going to suck like all hell, but at least Terminator seems to be bringing at least some interesting ideas to the table. Might just be me though.

Maybe not.

At the very least, it does have the potential for an interesting dynamic between Sarah and Dani, as Sarah comments that "I was once her [Dani]" (or words to that effect). Like, Sarah used to be the target, now she gets to see another young girl being hunted from the outside looking in.

I also have a suspicion that John's either dead or will die, and they'll be fostering some kind of mother-daughter relationship.

trunkage:
In Orville, the federation (I can't remember their actual name)

The Union.

Cripes, I've barely seen any of the Orville and even I know that.

Gordon_4:
Otherwise it looks alright, but only a viewing will decide if its a worthy addition to the canon.

Seriously, what even IS Terminator canon anymore? You can basically take your pick of absolutely any form of media in the franchise and form your own timeline from it.

stroopwafel:

No, I liked Salvation except for two things: it was not the 'future war' teased in the openings of T1 and T2 and I think the ending they went with was weak compared to the one they had planned.

I liked Salvation as well (granted, I've liked every Terminator movie bar T3, so go figure). That said, biggest problem with Salvation for me is that it's more Marcus's story than John's. Which isn't bad in of itself, but even casting aside the route John will take, it's a strange move, even if I like (the idea of) Marcus as a character.

But as for those points, I'll say this. The future war thing is excusable for me because not only does John comment that the course of the war is different from what his mother told him, but Salvation takes place in 2018, whereas every T1/2 future war scene took place in the 2020s. So in that sense, I can get why Salvation opts out from the plasma guns and whatnot.

But if you're referring the original ending of John dying and Marcus wearing his skin...no. Just no. I really hate this idea, the idea that John is interchangeable. Like, from a Doylist perspective, you could make an argument that anyone could become leader of the Resistance, but in the context of the series itself, John's treated as a semi-messiah, who has to struggle with the destiny that (supposedly) awaits him. If you want to subvert that, at least do it intelligently. Don't have some creepy pasta thing of Marcus wearing John's skin. I should also note that Marcus isn't charismatic at all, whereas in-universe, John is.

There's also the fact that tossing aside John's role as future leader has been only done twice to my knowledge, once in SCC (and done poorly), and once in a comic where Sarah ends up giving birth to "Jane Connor," and even in that timeline, I don't think it was suggested that "Jane" would have a different path than John at the end of the day.

Zetatrain:

Personally I think final frontier is the least bad of the three because unlike the the other two it doesn't really have any effect on the series as a whole (its events are pretty much never brought up again).

Y'know, going through Discovery, I'm still waiting for Spock to mention Sybok, or even him to show up. Like, what, Spock has to cover up the very fact that Michael even existed, but poor Sybok is shafted to "you never asked me if I had a half brother?"

Generations and Nemisis both haphazardly killed off iconic characters as well as the Enterprise D. For me Generations is probably the worst because it was at best boring where as Nemesis at least had some entertaining fights.

I disagree that Data's death is haphazard TBH. You could argue it's poorly done, but it has some gravitas to it, or at the very least, is trying to have gravitas.

Kirk's death is...sheesh, I don't even know. There's a YouTuber named Lorerunner (originally Archengeia) who made a good argument that Generations should never have had Kirk in it beyond the entry, that he should have actually died on the ship, but reference his legacy to Guinan (who was there) and Picard (looking back on a former captain). As in, have the question of generations and legacy be a theme, not so much the "time is the fire in which we burn, because ooh, spooky" be a...whatever the heck that was.

Also the emotions chip sub-plot. Bleh. Say what you want about Data's death in Nemesis, he at least had dignity in the film.

Thaluikhain:

trunkage:
That's pretty much how I feel about TNG. Meaningless, meandering, uninterested in characters or developing them. Definitely more self righteous and has a stick up it's own butt

I tend to agree with that, but then TNG got it right by not making the show about things it wasn't going to do. No character arcs, just monsters of the week, ethical dilemmas and Picard giving speeches.

DS9 also was pretty meaningless, meandering, uninterested in characters or developing them, but then tried to make things they weren't interested in doing well the basis of the show.

Not having plot or character arcs, not building the show around them is the right move when you're not going to do them well. I get the feeling that DS9 didn't care about those things more than TNG did.

... are you from the mirror universe with this perception of DS9..?

Zetatrain:
Personally I think final frontier is the least bad of the three because unlike the the other two it doesn't really have any effect on the series as a whole (its events are pretty much never brought up again). It also helps that it sometimes ventures into the realm of so bad it's good.

Thank Paramount for that, they're the ones that screwed it up. Shatner had a solid idea, personally managed to get Harve Bennett on board (a miracle by itself), and the two of them reworked it into a fantastic idea with Loughery. Then the WGA and Teamsters strikes happened, they lost Connery, Paramount forced the issue, and everything fell apart.

Roddenberry infamously hated the script, which if anything was a gold stamp the movie could have turned out good.

Seanchaidh:

Thaluikhain:

trunkage:
That's pretty much how I feel about TNG. Meaningless, meandering, uninterested in characters or developing them. Definitely more self righteous and has a stick up it's own butt

I tend to agree with that, but then TNG got it right by not making the show about things it wasn't going to do. No character arcs, just monsters of the week, ethical dilemmas and Picard giving speeches.

DS9 also was pretty meaningless, meandering, uninterested in characters or developing them, but then tried to make things they weren't interested in doing well the basis of the show.

Not having plot or character arcs, not building the show around them is the right move when you're not going to do them well. I get the feeling that DS9 didn't care about those things more than TNG did.

... are you from the mirror universe with this perception of DS9..?

No, I'm one of those wise enlightened types that DS9 fans might one day evolve into :)

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