Can a Fanbase Ever Be "Owed" Something?

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trunkage:
I'm actually playing Diablo 3 right now. Mobile Diablo never interested me, but I have no comprehension for hating that moment. I didn't care one way or the other.

But I never once considered Diablo 4 a thing. They're on Season 17 of Diablo 3 and I doubt they'd give that up. I thought it might be just a new character. But honestly, couldn't have cared if it was a new announcement or not. Mobile Diablo is fine if they find the audience for it. That audience won't include me but I'm not going to take Mobile Diablo away from those who want it.

It didn't bother me that much, but I get the outrage. Especially for those people at Blizzcon directly.

Tickets to the Con started at 230 dollars on the low end, 750 at the top pass.

Blizzcon was held Thursday and Friday, November 1-2nd. I can't tell how much those nights would have been at Hotels, but searching for next month, I see a range of 215-500. so, let's split the difference and say an average of 375 (I'm not saying the average of those two numbers is 375, but I feel that's a comfortable midpoint).

Getting time off of work (again, it was in the end of the week, but not on the weekend), all that travel hassle... to be told the Keynote event has nothing to do with what your interests might be at.

That would rile me up.

But again, they weren't promised anything. You go to these things with the HOPE of what you want to see. But it doesn't come guaranteed with the price you paid.

But on the other hand, we go to restaurants with the expectation of good service. And if we don't get it, we don't go to that restaurant again.

Lastly, being a PC company for near decades now, the optics were that the fans that got them to the level of a gaming company where they are today were being looked over for the new hotness.

Everything is Optics and presentation. Like how at the following day, they made sure to have people who would be more message friendly ask questions because they realized how badly Diablo Immortal went over.

Xprimentyl:
e.g.: I?m a huge Halo fan who loved Halo 4 and hated Halo 5; you don?t have to look far to find an equally huge Halo fan who feels exactly the opposite.

Raises hand as to being the opposite.

That shit that Blizzard pulled, collecting all those diehard Diablo fans together, fans who spent their time and money to be there to hear something, anything, about the next installment of Diablo on PC, only to spit a mobile Diablo game in their collective faces, and back that shit up with an incredulously snide ?you guys have phones, don?t you??, was nigh unforgiveable. Hell, I don?t give two shits about Diablo, and I was offended FOR Diablo fans. Mobile gaming is the literal antithesis of PC gaming, so for Blizzard to think Diablo fans would be excited to hear they?d been working on a new Diablo for everyone BUT the PC fans shows a level of tone deafness bordering on impossible.

You do realize that before BlizzCon, Blizzard stated in all but name that D4 wouldn't be shown, and that the existence of a Diablo mobile game had been known about for ages, right?

Also, I wouldn't call the guys have phones comment snide. It was unfortunate, sure, but you can tell from body language and tone that Wyatt was really uncomfortable. If someone's under intense stress (and the Diablo fanbase is an especially vicious one), then yes, I can understand messing up.

trunkage:

Blizzards misstep was ONLY providing a mobile game that could be played while you're waiting for the majot game to be finished. Id point to ES:Blades which is somewhat well recieved, filled in how the white gold concordant happen and why the Thalmer couldn't press the advantage. But it wasnt connected to a future game that we were waiting for (we know TES6 is happening but... probably not for years.)

In hindsight, yes, but I can't really understand the difference.

Let's take it as writ that Blades was better received because ES6 was revealed. Question is, why? ES6 was confirmed in 2016. All 2018 did was reveal what was known for two years. Like, if there'd be some Diablo IV ES6-esque trailer at BlizzCon (landscape of Sanctuary with a "D4 logo,") then what would that do apart from confirm the existence of a game that had been confirmed in 2018, and hinted at since 2016?

If you're going to do a trailer like Elder Scrolls VI, then the only reason I could get hyped for it if I didn't already know the thing existed.

ObsidianJones:

Getting time off of work (again, it was in the end of the week, but not on the weekend), all that travel hassle... to be told the Keynote event has nothing to do with what your interests might be at.

Serious question - if you're told a month in advance that something you hoped would be there won't be there, is it still within reason to turn up to an event and be disappointed that what you expected to be there isn't there, despite being given forewarning that it wouldn't be there?

Eacaraxe:

CaitSeith:
Yes, continue; because that doesn't counter the rest of what I said:

But you're right, nope, nothing to see there.

Did I said there was nothing to see? I said that there wasn't enough cohesivity to make the conflict between organics and synthetics the driving theme of the whole series. Lot's of the stuff you're "explaining" you're actually inferring them from the third game. Reapers are the antagonists in the first two games because they wanted to exterminate all advanced civilization, because that's what Reapers do; but their motives are too ambiguous to arrive to ME3's final conclusion. The people who understood the Lovecraftian stuff in ME1 must had been absent in the ME3 ending (it's like Chutulu's creator appeared as a human child to the professor, quickly explained him that the Ancient Ones destroy worlds to protect the dominant species from themselves and gives him the choice to destroy the Ancient Ones, control them or some kind of middle-ground).

PS: The Keepers and the Collectors are bio-engineered, not bio-mechanical (big difference).

Hawki:

ObsidianJones:

Getting time off of work (again, it was in the end of the week, but not on the weekend), all that travel hassle... to be told the Keynote event has nothing to do with what your interests might be at.

Serious question - if you're told a month in advance that something you hoped would be there won't be there, is it still within reason to turn up to an event and be disappointed that what you expected to be there isn't there, despite being given forewarning that it wouldn't be there?

Serious answer in two parts. The first one is what I actually meant, the second one will address what I think you're talking about (Diablo 4)

Serious Answer Number 1: The interests I was talking about was PC interests. Blizzard has been a PC company for years. There were some deliances to console with Diablo and Overwatch, but I would put down even money that most who can in attendance at that point expected news that would be in line with how Blizzard has been running things for years.

They got a crappy phone port. And as the bulk of the audience showed, that is not where their interests lie.

Serious Answer Number zwei: I'm not your typical person. If I bought tickets to an event, I'm ignoring every bit of news surrounding that event. I want to get my money's worth.

Now, for what I believe you mean, that someone told the group not to expect something and people expected it anyway (and you and I don't know what number of people that is, but let's just say it was ten percent). Well, again, personally, I grew up in a society and a situation that learned not to trust what people say until I see the final action. So I always have some skepticism, even while trying to be optimistic.

We can look at Bethesda and see all the things they said was going to be somewhere and going to come out like this, and see the awful truth of the matter. We can see scores of gameplay videos, demos, and 'true to life trailers', and see downgrades galore. We can see denial of modes, features (offline mode being impossible for Sim City due to the game needing the Cloud to process), and inclusions of microtransactions... and have all those things come to reality.

When talking about the Video Game Industry, the Development side is steeped in dubious misdirection. Serious question to you, how should people know when those associated with Game Design and Development are being truthful, and when they are spinning to keep hype going?

The Serious Answer Part Deux is me just playing Devil's Advocate, mind you. Serious Answer Number Ichi is actually what I meant when I spoke of interests. And like I said right after that, they weren't promised anything. So expecting leads to disappointment.

Hawki:

Xprimentyl:
e.g.: I?m a huge Halo fan who loved Halo 4 and hated Halo 5; you don?t have to look far to find an equally huge Halo fan who feels exactly the opposite.

Raises hand as to being the opposite.

Yes, I know; we've had a couple discussions about it in the past, hence my "you don't have to look far" comment.

Hawki:

Xprimentyl:
That shit that Blizzard pulled, collecting all those diehard Diablo fans together, fans who spent their time and money to be there to hear something, anything, about the next installment of Diablo on PC, only to spit a mobile Diablo game in their collective faces, and back that shit up with an incredulously snide ?you guys have phones, don?t you??, was nigh unforgiveable. Hell, I don?t give two shits about Diablo, and I was offended FOR Diablo fans. Mobile gaming is the literal antithesis of PC gaming, so for Blizzard to think Diablo fans would be excited to hear they?d been working on a new Diablo for everyone BUT the PC fans shows a level of tone deafness bordering on impossible.

You do realize that before BlizzCon, Blizzard stated in all but name that D4 wouldn't be shown, and that the existence of a Diablo mobile game had been known about for ages, right?

Yes and yes; the point was was it reasonable for Blizzard to think attendees at BlizzCon, y'know, those largely PC gamers who paid good money and likely travelled to be there, would be satisfied with a chintzy mobile game as the big "ta-dah!" of the event? I know D4 wasn't promised, but it was entirely reasonable for fans to expect something of import to Blizzard's core demographic and entirely understandable that those fans, "vicious" as they may be, were as upset as they were.

Hawki:
Also, I wouldn't call the guys have phones comment snide. It was unfortunate, sure, but you can tell from body language and tone that Wyatt was really uncomfortable. If someone's under intense stress (and the Diablo fanbase is an especially vicious one), then yes, I can understand messing up.

Sorry, I can't afford them that pass. A couple things: 1.) if Wyatt was chosen to spearhead the big reveal on stage, he should have been vetted for a level of professionalism that could handle a negative crowd response. In his case, talking down to his customers was his knee-jerk response to their dissatisfaction, and I should feel badly for him? If he genuinely stood behind his product, the response should have been to win the crowd over, itemize all of the things that are "so great" about it (if any existed) softening the blow, not questioning the fans' ability to access the product when it's evident to anyone with two working eyes and ears they didn't WANT the product! If someone shoves dog shit in your face and you turn your head in disgust, what sense does it make to ask incredulously "what? You have a nose, don't you?" 2.) Whether he was or wasn't vetted aside, it goes to show just how out of touch Blizzard actually was, willfully or otherwise. They either somehow thought they had a product fans wanted and would be excited about or they didn't care and just put Wyatt out as a sacrificial lamb to herald their cash-grab knowing that SOMEONE would end up buying it and MOAR MONIES! The former being blind to their decades of success, the latter being patently greedy; neither a forgivable offence.

Diablo Immortal would have been fine in a booth, or maybe some filler between events on stage, but as THE reveal to a room full of PC gamers was the tactile embodiment of the aloof, out-of-touch state of the industry today: devs/publishers who want maximum return on minimum effort. Blizzard has enough money to launch a rocket to heaven, raze it to the ground, and erect condos for their accountants to live in luxury as they organize the cash; do you think a mobile game lazily painted in Diablo colors and likely to be rife with in-app purchases is the best use of their time and effort? Do you think that's what anyone in the room expected to see let alone WANTED to see? And what do I know? I'm a nigh-middle-aged guy in Texas whose extent in videogame development is about as substantial as hope in the "hope in one hand, shit in the other, see which one fills up first" adage, and I know the answer to both of those questions...

Xprimentyl:

Yes and yes; the point was was it reasonable for Blizzard to think attendees at BlizzCon, y?know, those largely PC gamers who paid good money and likely travelled to be there, would be satisfied with a chintzy mobile game as the big ?ta-dah!? of the event? I know D4 wasn?t promised, but it was entirely reasonable for fans to expect something of import to Blizzard?s core demographic and entirely understandable that those fans, ?vicious? as they may be, were as upset as they were.

Few points with this:

-It's far too broad to go the route of "Blizzard fan = PC fan," or that "BlizzCon attendee = Blizzard fan." As in, at the time of BlizzCon 2018 (and today), Blizzard has five active IPs, only two of which are PC-exclusive.

-It's not a question of D4 not being promised, it's a case of it being stated well beforehand that D4 wouldn't be at the event. Even if we accept that Immortal was the big ta da (which is dubious), if you go to an event expecting something that you were told wouldn't be there, then what am I meant to say? Sorry you didn't get the memo?

The existence of Immortal in of itself is another matter, but I have limited sympathy for people who were upset over the lack of a game that they were told wouldn't be there, and the existence of a game that was known well before BC 2019.

Sorry, I can?t afford them that pass. A couple things: 1.) if Wyatt was chosen to spearhead the big reveal on stage, he should have been vetted for a level of professionalism that could handle a negative crowd response. In his case, talking down to his customers was his knee-jerk response to their dissatisfaction, and I should feel badly for him?

I'm sure everyone who gets up stage is vetted (I know that there's rehersals for these kinds of events) - I don't expect everyone to be 100%, 100% of the time.

If he genuinely stood behind his product, the response should have been to win the crowd over, itemize all of the things that are ?so great? about it (if any existed) softening the blow, not questioning the fans? ability to access the product when it?s evident to anyone with two working eyes and ears they didn?t WANT the product!

First of all, I said that did happen. Second of all, when you have a matter of minutes, hours at most to realize that they didn't want the product, then that becomes a lot harder to react to.

If someone shoves dog shit in your face and you turn your head in disgust, what sense does it make to ask incredulously ?what? You have a nose, don?t you?? 2.) Whether he was or wasn?t vetted aside, it goes to show just how out of touch Blizzard actually was, willfully or otherwise. They either somehow thought they had a product fans wanted and would be excited about or they didn?t care and just put Wyatt out as a sacrificial lamb to herald their cash-grab knowing that SOMEONE would end up buying it and MOAR MONIES! The former being blind to their decades of success, the latter being patently greedy; neither a forgivable offence.

Even if we take all of that as being true, I still don't have any sympathy for the crowd in that specific context.

The closest I've ever been to being angry about the existence of a mobile game cashing in on an IP was Command & Conquer: Rivals, and I couldn't even call myself angry. Just disappointed. And certainly not disappointed enough to make the devs' life a living hell. Then again, the Diablo fanbase did that to Jay Wilson, why wouldn't they do it to Wyatt?

Diablo Immortal would have been fine in a booth, or maybe some filler between events on stage, but as THE reveal to a room full of PC gamers was the tactile embodiment of the aloof, out-of-touch state of the industry today: devs/publishers who want maximum return on minimum effort. Blizzard has enough money to launch a rocket to heaven, raze it to the ground, and erect condos for their accountants to live in luxury as they organize the cash; do you think a mobile game lazily painted in Diablo colors and likely to be rife with in-app purchases is the best use of their time and effort?

Considering that most of the development is being done by NetEase, it's academic.

Do you think that?s what anyone in the room expected to see let alone WANTED to see?

Probably no. But considering that the existence of a Diablo mobile game was known well before BlizzCon, and that D4 wouldn't be shown was well known as well, what people "expected" to see is something I can't comment on, because the whole question of expectation relies on them somehow missing the memos pertaining to both games.

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