[Politics] Nazis Attack LGBT Pride Parade

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Call up the boys, resurrect the Black Panthers and use your god-given right to carry firearms and scare the crap out of white people.

Legally owned and licensed firearms, held by organized law-keeping black citizens for the safety of their communities.

Police wouldn't risk starting a riot, they'd rather protect the nazis from getting lynched.

Y'know when Nazis marched in New York in the 30s Lansky was asked low-key by the US government to crash their rallies and beat them to pieces...

https://allthatsinteresting.com/meyer-lansky-punch-a-nazi

He delivered.

This shouldn't be made illegal by any means. Let this surface, identify the ring-leaders and plan retribution. If you allow this to bubble under your feet you will lose track of the movement.

I regularly play devil's advocate here when "white nationalists" (as if that's a thing, bitter poor whites turning to populism for salvation) gets conflated with nazis. It's more productive to have a dialogue with these people and understand why they are lashing out (hint: It's opium, mechanization and globalization), and maybe even address these issues... These nazis? Break them.

I don't know what kind of world we've living in, but this shocks and horrifies me more than active shootings. Probably because I grew up in the dangerous part of the Bronx and Brooklyn (family's there) during the 80's and 90's. I've dodged literal bullets before, so I guess I don't weigh gun violence that highly even though it often comes at the too high cost of innocent lives. But this... This is an attack on love and human rights. That's chilling to me.

erttheking:
I'm buying a gun. Congrats Nazis, you made me do a total 180 on gun ownership. The second my student debts and car payments are taking care of I'm taking vacation time to go through MA gun ownership training and buying a safe for it. Clearly, it's needed to ensure my own safety.

Ok, you might be joking, but as a gun owner, I want to talk with you.

This is not a choice that should be done out of fear. After my incident with my mother, I thought for three months before I got my shotgun. The incident was nothing bad, mind you. She had an dementia episode, and all of the availible cops came to my condo late at night... which made me worried that if they did this while they were bored, what could happen if they all did that with another bored episode and we were getting robbed at that time.

I came down on the side of last chance prepardedness. My first instinct will always to be call the police if something happens. But if they can't get there in time, I had to be able to protect my family.

I wholeheartedly agree that it's the best idea to take some firearm training lessons. Don't consider it your one stop shop, though. Martial Art lessons will not only serve you well where ever, but can help get you in shape to have faster reaction times or to just peace out of a situation if need be.

But they want a war.

They want us to take up arms so they can strike as many times as they want claiming self defense, blithely ignoring everything that lead up to us taking up guns in response. We're not dealing with rational people here.

Talk to many people about gun ownership. If you have anyone in your life that owns one, really share your feelings. Talk to those in your life that don't have a gun. Share your feelings just as much. And if at the end, you still feel like a gun will best serve your safety, then do it. Treat it with all the fear and respect it deserves. But know that you chose it with a level head and due to reason, not fear.

ObsidianJones:

erttheking:
I'm buying a gun. Congrats Nazis, you made me do a total 180 on gun ownership. The second my student debts and car payments are taking care of I'm taking vacation time to go through MA gun ownership training and buying a safe for it. Clearly, it's needed to ensure my own safety.

Ok, you might be joking, but as a gun owner, I want to talk with you.

This is not a choice that should be done out of fear. After my incident with my mother, I thought for three months before I got my shotgun. The incident was nothing bad, mind you. She had an dementia episode, and all of the availible cops came to my condo late at night... which made me worried that if they did this while they were bored, what could happen if they all did that with another bored episode and we were getting robbed at that time.

I came down on the side of last chance prepardedness. My first instinct will always to be call the police if something happens. But if they can't get there in time, I had to be able to protect my family.

I wholeheartedly agree that it's the best idea to take some firearm training lessons. Don't consider it your one stop shop, though. Martial Art lessons will not only serve you well where ever, but can help get you in shape to have faster reaction times or to just peace out of a situation if need be.

But they want a war.

They want us to take up arms so they can strike as many times as they want claiming self defense, blithely ignoring everything that lead up to us taking up guns in response. We're not dealing with rational people here.

Talk to many people about gun ownership. If you have anyone in your life that owns one, really share your feelings. Talk to those in your life that don't have a gun. Share your feelings just as much. And if at the end, you still feel like a gun will best serve your safety, then do it. Treat it with all the fear and respect it deserves. But know that you chose it with a level head and due to reason, not fear.

Don't worry, this isn't an impulse purchase (that would be impossible anyway, MA has a lot of barriers to purchase for exactly that kind of reason. Also, firearm training isn't optional in MA, you need to go through it if you want a gun license. I've done my research on this front) I've been sitting on this one for a long time.

And when I say "when I have my loans and car payments taking care of" I mean "I'm going to do this in three years." Trust me, this isn't impulsive.

And as much as I get that they want a war, well Ghandi suggested that if Nazis come up to you, you should just let them kill you. Ghandi was full of shit. I have never been the type of person who goes looking for a fight. But if someone kicks my door in with intent to do harm, well, I'm not going to die for the sake of holding the moral high ground. And I mentioned that I was going to be buying a safe, that's because whenever I am not using it, it's going to be locked up in a place that only I know.

Trust me, I'll be doing a lot of talking to people when my loans are paid off and I'm actually going to start taking steps towards the purchase. Which, again, is going to be a couple of years. And don't worry, I've been very critical of those who treat guns like toys instead of tools of death. I'm not a hypocrite.

evilthecat:

Dreiko:
And any ideology can be twisted into killing people. You had the gas chambers and you had the gulags and all those people sent to Siberia and so on. The thing in common those ideologies all have is their authoritarian nature. The more you approach it the likelier you are to become corrupted by the power you're messing with and commit atrocities.

This comparison doesn't work.

The gulags (as we call them in English) were concentration camps. They were, essentially, prisons. They were unusually harsh prisons with a very high rate of inmate mortality, but they were still prisons. Their motivation was not "ideological" except in the sense that some prisoners held in the gulags had been detained for political reasons. There was never any organised political intent to kill the imprisoned population. They were (with some possible exceptions, and we'll get to that) not victims of deliberate genocide, they were not victims of "ideology", they were victims of a prison system which sought to extract maximum benefit from them at the lowest possible cost, even if it meant people died.

The vast majority of "liberal" societies have used concentration camps. Some still do. Many US prisons, for example, are essentially concentration camps. They are designed to house a large, controlled population in a small space at low cost. Many also use forced labour. The actual concept of a concentration camp was invented by European colonial administrators as a means of controlling potentially rebellious populations in the colonies. All concentration camps have casualties. People die in prison. People die in detention centres. This is not ideology, it's pragmatism.

The Nazis had concentration camps. All kinds of prisoners, political and otherwise, went to concentration camps for all kinds of reasons. The concentration camps did not have gas chambers. People died in them (a lot of people, in fact) but those people dying was not the objective. The gas chambers were housed in extermination camps. These camps were not designed to house or contain people, but to kill them within hours of arriving and in as fast and efficient a way as possible. That was the only purpose of those camps.

There was genocide in the Soviet Union. Specific minorities were targeted for persecution and pogroms (although unlike the Nazi genocides, the goal was never to wholly eliminate those groups). For example, it's quite likely that Soviet agricultural policy specifically targeted Ukrainians for deliberate starvation as a means of consolidating power within the Russian Soviet, but note that even here I had to add that, because even there the goal was not the ideological elimination of "subhuman" Ukrainians but the maintenance of political control.

This idea that "authoritarianism" is the problem is only true in the sense that state killing is always authoritarian, whether it's in a democratic society or not. A prison is always an authoritarian institution, it's a place where people are detained against their will by the state. Border controls are authoritarian. Militarized police are authoritarian. Corporate hierarchies are authoritarian. Authoritarianism can exist quite comfortably within "liberal" societies. The problem with Nazism wasn't that it was authoritarianism and that the Nazi leaders got corrupted by power and thus were compelled to kill all Jews, it's that their entire ideology was based on a chauvinistic sense of superiority and a desire to exterminate others. It still is. That is something quite profoundly different to a simple abuse of power, or instrumental pursuit of "order" or "efficiency".

If you want to indulge in some kind of horseshoe theory, an appropriate horseshoe would be to compare the deliberate starvation of Indians under the Raj as a result of cruel and negligent agricultural policy with the deliberate starvation of Ukranians under Stalin as a result of cruel and negligent agricultural policy. Or to compare the use deliberate use and promotion of torture in both US and USSR-backed puppet regimes as a means of maintaining ideological control. These are horrific, horrific crimes against humanity, but they were ultimately the product of instrumental political goals. For the Nazis, killing millions of people was the goal. It was not the means, it was the end, and that is fundamentally different.

That the famine colloquially referred to as the Holodomor was an intentional attempt to starve the Ukrainian people is a notion that even most western historians disagree with. Yes, it was a horrible famine that was, among other things, the result of decisions made by the government of the Soviet Union. Collectivization of farms led many farmers to burn their harvest and kill their livestock, the encroaching fascist death cult from the west meant that ressources were mostly allocated to urban areas and the arms industry... but there is very little that would indicate that their was a deliberate effort to kill Ukrainians. Stalin did a lot wrong. I'm not gonna deny that. But he wasn't a comic book villain who was going out of his way to starve his own people.

And again, Stalin did some truly horrible things. Many good people, hell, many good communists, were killed in purges based around little more than paranoia and political grandstanding, leadership of the secret police was given from one corrupt brute to the next, decisions were made in regards to East Germany that were actively harmful to its development as a socialist nation, the human rights abuses in Soviet labour camps, even if partly caused by ressource shortages as result of the war, were atrocious and there is no justification for the rampant antisemitism following the Soviet Unions worsening relationship with Israel.

But if there is one thing to be said in defense of Stalin it's that he wasn't Hitler and he does not deserve to be mentioned along with Hitler the way he often is. Even his most brutal, most inhumane policies were, on some level, based on realpolitik. Realpolitik tainted with paranoia and distrust of his own people, yes, but you could see how there were political reasons for what he did especially seeing how he had to lead the Soviet Union through the aftermath of the Civil War, the great famine, a war against an enemy who planned to kill and enslave the entire slavic race and colonize all of Eastern Europe and the beginning of the Cold War. Unlike Hitler, whos specific brand of cruelty, much like that of the modern far right, was based on a cultish belief in esoteric racial hierarchies, pathological narcissism and literal occultism.

There is a certain pattern to that, you know. The farther you go the left the more scientific and the more theoretical will the ideologies get. Marxism is a science, rather than a doctrine and so are most other, more obscure leftist theories. However, the farther you go to the right, the more will you drift into spritiualism, occultism, religion and other form of superstition and the less connection will these ideologies have to factual, material reality. Even past Hitler and Mussolini, the two grandfathers of the modern far right, rightist philosophers like Evola, or, for a modern and rather influential example, Aleksandr Dugin (Look him up, he's had great influence on neofascist propaganda mouthpiece Lauren Southern) promote a worldview that is religious much more than political, an apocalyptic totalitarian dogma hiding behind notions of national and ethnic identity.

Lil devils x:

In Detroit, an armed white supremacist group called the National Socialist Movement (NSM) descended on the annual Motor City Pride Festival, where they held placards, gave Nazi salutes and displayed armbands with swastikas.

Dressed in black with a number carrying firearms and shields, the NSM marchers tore apart pride flags and pushed over at least one counter-demonstrator.

"Literally f****** Nazis are at Motor City Pride right now, please be safe out there y'all," one user tweeted on Saturday afternoon. "Even if they deserve it, do not engage. Our safety at our Pride is the most important thing."

Hey, actual right wing organized violence! Line them up, charge them with whatever you can prove, and sentence appropriately. Use the investigation to search their computers and phones to see how and where they organized, and get anyone planning violence with criminal conspiracy charges. Assuming of course that the article is accurate. I wonder if there's any live footage of the event out there with enough on either side of events to show context?

Lil devils x:

In Washington DC, seven people were taken to hospital after fears of a potential gunman at the pride event sparked panic.

Hundreds of people were gathered at the Dupont Circle for the parade when people started running after hearing what they thought was a gunshot.

"As the officers were going to the scene, there was a crowd of people going away from it and some of the individuals in the crowd said there was a man with a gun and that someone had fired a shot," said Guillermo Rivera, a commander with the Metropolitan Police Department.

A man was taken into custody and is facing a gun possession charge, he said.

Elizabeth Hernandez, 19, was among those celebrating in the city when she said she heard "pop, pop" and suddenly barricades were being thrown over and a crowd of people starting running frantically from the area.

"Everything fell and everyone said 'Run!"' said Ms Hernandez, of Falls Church, Virginia.

Mayor Muriel Bowser tweeted that she had been briefed by police and there were "no shots fired".

I might be reading between the lines here, but basically someone heard a loud noise, people freaked out and caused a stampede and somewhere in this they found someone they could charge with a gun possession charge for a gun that presumably was not discharged (and therefore he didn't shoot it to start the stampede) as no shots were actually fired?

I suppose that brings up the question of where the initial noise came from? There are some obvious missing details here.

Lil devils x:
To me it looks like he is trying to take a piss on it tbh.

I'm not sure. I know you're not used to peeing standing up (for obvious reasons) but it's...awkward...to pee straight down (and otherwise he'd be peeing on the column and trickling down to the flag). And it'd splatter all over his shoes. If he were a step or two back, I'd agree with you. I'm sure that's what he's trying to imply in the image (which he seems to be posing for), but it's unlikely he was or was immediately about to start pissing on that flag without moving first.

Lil devils x:

How is it that men taking other's property and destroying it is not arrest worthy? If they push people down and steal their flags and destroy them, should they have not been arrested at that point? I see this happening frequently, but police rarely arrest them, why is that somehow okay to do? That should be considered theft assault and property damage should it not?

I said as much when it was BAMN and similar groups doing it in CA, and I agree with you here.

I suspect there will be certain folks who are more...partisan about who should be allowed to do that to whom though.

Armadox:
in hopes that the Left finally has enough of it and raises their fist.

Finally has enough of it? Er, there are folks in CA who'd like to have a chat with you. Before, you know, assaulting you, likely with an improvised bludgeon.

Hawki:
This is actually kind of terrifying.

I've said in the past that "Nazi" is a term used too liberally, but these are actual fucking Nazis who aren't even trying to hide that they're Nazis.

Agreed. If you wanted to literally punch Nazis rather than "Nazis" this was a fine opportunity.

trunkage:
Instead of blaming the Left when they try to combat it.

Honestly, I'm fine with "combating it", so long as they can actually target the extremists they claim to want and not just, you know, anyone wearing a MAGA hat, or not knowing how to answer when asked if they're "proud", or just verbally expressing disagreement with their views (you know, "Nazis" as opposed to Nazis). That's always been the big problem with violence on the left, it tends to be poorly aimed.

Neurotic Void Melody:
We can at least all breathe a sigh of relief nobody came armed with milkshakes. In the hands of an unhinged leftie, they might as well be communist nukes filled with mind-control gas that boasts an additional bonus of infertility for anybody unlucky enough to be born cis.

On the upside the milkshake thing is a deescalation from the usual improvised bludgeons and assorted aerosols (because pepper spray is expensive when you probably have some insecticide already!)

erttheking:
I'm buying a gun. Congrats Nazis, you made me do a total 180 on gun ownership. The second my student debts and car payments are taking care of I'm taking vacation time to go through MA gun ownership training and buying a safe for it. Clearly, it's needed to ensure my own safety.

The best defense against a bad Nazi with a gun is a good QUILTBAG with a gun? =p

To be fair, they'd probably think twice about armed protest if they knew the folks they were protesting would be armed as well.

TheIronRuler:
It's opium

This is first time I ever heard about opium being brought up to be an issue here. What is this? The 19th century?

Schadrach:

The best defense against a bad Nazi with a gun is a good QUILTBAG with a gun? =p

To be fair, they'd probably think twice about armed protest if they knew the folks they were protesting would be armed as well.

If I wanted jokes I'd go to someone who was actually funny.

PsychedelicDiamond:
.

There is a certain pattern to that, you know. The farther you go the left the more scientific and the more theoretical will the ideologies get. Marxism is a science, rather than a doctrine and so are most other, more obscure leftist theories. However, the farther you go to the right, the more will you drift into spritiualism, occultism, religion and other form of superstition and the less connection will these ideologies have to factual, material reality. Even past Hitler and Mussolini, the two grandfathers of the modern far right, rightist philosopher like Evola, or, for a modern and rather influential example, Aleksandr Dugin (Look him up, he's had great influence on neofascist propaganda mouthpiece Lauren Southern) promote a worldview that religious much more than political, an apocalyptic totalitarian dogma hiding behing notions of national and ethnic identity.

.
I like this paragraph.

Stalin was a cutthroat propelled into stardom by a string of brutal acts of violence against the whites, calculated political maneuvering around fellow generals and the nagging paranoid belief that the same can be done to him... A frightening man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TK9c-caEcw

Do you remember the Kulaks? Pepperidge farms remember.

I do place him on the same pedestal as hitler though. I do believe he had earned that dishonor and notoriety. In the same cesspool as Nguema, Trujillo and Pol Pot... The body-count doesn't need to be the key factor in determining your target of scorn. It is often the acts they participated in, encouraged or allowed that determine it...

CaitSeith:

TheIronRuler:
It's opium

This is first time I ever heard about opium being brought up to be an issue here. What is this? The 19th century?

.
The opioid epidemic is a name for the rampant consumption of drugs - prescribed or obtained via the black market - which are produced from the poppy plant. Opium is one of the first iterations of the drug. Modern drugs are distilled differently (you can produce heroin and codein from poppy, for example) and their compounds can differ from Opium (there are similar synthetics, for example Pethidine and Fentanyl), but it's essentially the same damn thing... it's highly addictive.

This drug brought down a hundreds year old massive Empire which dominated east Asia. It can punch way above its weight.

erttheking:
Don't worry, this isn't an impulse purchase (that would be impossible anyway, MA has a lot of barriers to purchase for exactly that kind of reason. Also, firearm training isn't optional in MA, you need to go through it if you want a gun license. I've done my research on this front) I've been sitting on this one for a long time.

And when I say "when I have my loans and car payments taking care of" I mean "I'm going to do this in three years." Trust me, this isn't impulsive.

And as much as I get that they want a war, well Ghandi suggested that if Nazis come up to you, you should just let them kill you. Ghandi was full of shit. I have never been the type of person who goes looking for a fight. But if someone kicks my door in with intent to do harm, well, I'm not going to die for the sake of holding the moral high ground. And I mentioned that I was going to be buying a safe, that's because whenever I am not using it, it's going to be locked up in a place that only I know.

Trust me, I'll be doing a lot of talking to people when my loans are paid off and I'm actually going to start taking steps towards the purchase. Which, again, is going to be a couple of years. And don't worry, I've been very critical of those who treat guns like toys instead of tools of death. I'm not a hypocrite.

Ok, you seem to have it sorted out.

I'm sorry to welcome you into this life. But I'm glad we have more with their head screwed on.

ObsidianJones:

Ok, you seem to have it sorted out.

I'm sorry to welcome you into this life. But I'm glad we have more with their head screwed on.

I appreciate you wanting me to have my head clear when doing this. Thank you.

"A man is due to appear in court after allegedly causing a stampede at a gay pride parade in the US which left seven people needing hospital treatment.

The man, named in US media as 38-year-old Aftabjit Singh, allegedly waved a BB gun, which fires small metal ball projectiles, in the capital Washington on Saturday.

A number of people reported hearing gunshots before the crowd fled.

However, officials maintain there is no evidence that shots were fired.

A police report - cited by the Associated Press news agency - said the man took the weapon out after noticing someone "hitting his significant other"."
Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48577355

This Sikh-sounding gentleman is obviously part of a very deep Nazi false-flag operation.

TheIronRuler:

CaitSeith:

TheIronRuler:
It's opium

This is first time I ever heard about opium being brought up to be an issue here. What is this? The 19th century?

.
The opioid epidemic is a name for the rampant consumption of drugs - prescribed or obtained via the black market - which are produced from the poppy plant. Opium is one of the first iterations of the drug. Modern drugs are distilled differently (you can produce heroin and codein from poppy, for example) and their compounds can differ from Opium (there are similar synthetics, for example Pethidine and Fentanyl), but it's essentially the same damn thing... it's highly addictive.

This drug brought down a hundreds year old massive Empire which dominated east Asia. It can punch way above its weight.

I'm aware of the opioid crisis; but this is the first time I hear blaming opium directly. Mainly because the main offenders are the synthetic ones.

image

Gethsemani:

Saelune:

We just celebrated D-Day. A celebration about violently attacking Nazis. That's what celebrating D-Day is about, it is about attacking Nazis. Do you think D-Day was bad?

Generally, any celebration related to WW2 is a celebration of the war ending or coming closer to ending. Operation Overlord was integral in allowing the Western Allies to conduct operations to directly bring an end to the war in Europe and thus liberating the occupied and oppressed people. That's what we are celebrating.

There's absolutely nothing glorious or righteous about thousands upon thousands of young men being maimed or dying in agony, no matter which side of the conflict those men were on. Hitler and the rest of the Nazis will always be the people responsible for 50 million people dying in Europe because of WW2, and while I am thankful that the Allies and USSR stepped up to stop them, I think we should be really careful about canonizing the people who fought them. We should honor them for their sacrifice, but that's not the same as saying that attacking a Nazi is always a good thing. Because violence begets violence and by extolling the virtue of exercising violence on our opponents, we are also falling into the same kind of rhetoric that the Nazis used. From there, we are really close to being just as bad as anyone else that thinks violence against their enemies, real or imaginary, is alright.

It really isn't. Most celebrations of WW2 are nationalistic circle-jerks, but then, most celebrations of the military are never for the soldiers involved.

But also you're saying the ends justify the means. I mean, I agree in this case, but I think there is a lot of virtue signaling that never wants to consider the between parts. WW2 ended with violence. There is no way the Nazis were going to be defeated by anything except violence. I do not think that truth has changed.

I also think for all the people claiming violence is the wrong way to deal with Nazis, I think a lot of those people secretly don't mind when Nazis get punched in the face, but they want to virtue signal that they personally are 'above violence' even to people who perhaps deserve it, so they can feel good that a Nazi got punched, but also feel good cause it wasn't then doing the punching. Either way, the Nazi is punched, and the person criticizing it is 'virtuous' for being anti-violence. Similar to how Republicans can pretend to condemn bigotry while letting the bigots do what they want. They pretend to care when a LGBT nightclub gets shot up, but do nothing about it, so they can pretend they are above the violence, while also having less 'sinful queers' infesting the world.

Nazis are bullies, and they want to see where the line is, so they can edge up to the line. Then they see people not stopping them, and see the line is further in their favor, and so they keep inching forward, and they will keep doing it until either A) Everyone they want eradicated is eradicated, or B) They themselves are eradicated.

Tolerating intolerance will only let intolerance fester and grow.

CaitSeith:
.
I'm aware of the opioid crisis; but this is the first time I hear blaming opium directly. Mainly because the main offenders are the synthetic ones.

.

.
There's only so much poppy you can export from Afghanistan and Pakistan via India, you've got to start making your own at the lab...

I use the term because it evokes the effects of Opium on China. It does for me, at least.
.

Batou667:
"A man is due to appear in court after allegedly causing a stampede at a gay pride parade in the US which left seven people needing hospital treatment.

The man, named in US media as 38-year-old Aftabjit Singh, allegedly waved a BB gun, which fires small metal ball projectiles, in the capital Washington on Saturday.

A number of people reported hearing gunshots before the crowd fled.

However, officials maintain there is no evidence that shots were fired.

A police report - cited by the Associated Press news agency - said the man took the weapon out after noticing someone "hitting his significant other"."
Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48577355

This Sikh-sounding gentleman is obviously part of a very deep Nazi false-flag operation.

.
That's some tinfoil stuff right here... What else do you have to say?

TheIronRuler:
Call up the boys, resurrect the Black Panthers and use your god-given right to carry firearms and scare the crap out of white people.

Legally owned and licensed firearms, held by organized law-keeping black citizens for the safety of their communities.

Police wouldn't risk starting a riot, they'd rather protect the nazis from getting lynched.

Y'know when Nazis marched in New York in the 30s Lansky was asked low-key by the US government to crash their rallies and beat them to pieces...

https://allthatsinteresting.com/meyer-lansky-punch-a-nazi

He delivered.

This shouldn't be made illegal by any means. Let this surface, identify the ring-leaders and plan retribution. If you allow this to bubble under your feet you will lose track of the movement.

I regularly play devil's advocate here when "white nationalists" (as if that's a thing, bitter poor whites turning to populism for salvation) gets conflated with nazis. It's more productive to have a dialogue with these people and understand why they are lashing out (hint: It's opium, mechanization and globalization), and maybe even address these issues... These nazis? Break them.

This is why I have the problems with you that I do. There is no dialogue to be had with Nazis. They had their chance in 1938 and have proven they want only evil.

If they want a dialogue, it is on THEM to come to US with one. But they wont, cause they want to KILL US ALL. They are the bad guys, they choose to be the bad guys, and it is up to the good guys to stand up to them.

ObsidianJones:

erttheking:
Don't worry, this isn't an impulse purchase (that would be impossible anyway, MA has a lot of barriers to purchase for exactly that kind of reason. Also, firearm training isn't optional in MA, you need to go through it if you want a gun license. I've done my research on this front) I've been sitting on this one for a long time.

And when I say "when I have my loans and car payments taking care of" I mean "I'm going to do this in three years." Trust me, this isn't impulsive.

And as much as I get that they want a war, well Ghandi suggested that if Nazis come up to you, you should just let them kill you. Ghandi was full of shit. I have never been the type of person who goes looking for a fight. But if someone kicks my door in with intent to do harm, well, I'm not going to die for the sake of holding the moral high ground. And I mentioned that I was going to be buying a safe, that's because whenever I am not using it, it's going to be locked up in a place that only I know.

Trust me, I'll be doing a lot of talking to people when my loans are paid off and I'm actually going to start taking steps towards the purchase. Which, again, is going to be a couple of years. And don't worry, I've been very critical of those who treat guns like toys instead of tools of death. I'm not a hypocrite.

Ok, you seem to have it sorted out.

I'm sorry to welcome you into this life. But I'm glad we have more with their head screwed on.

If the NRA was about arming up against Nazis, I might not hate them, but they are about arming the people who side with Nazis. Nazis and the KKK are why I don't want guns to be as open and free as they are. No, it will not stop them from getting guns, but it would be nice if when they had guns, we knew it was because they are the bad guys. Instead of cops protecting KKK and Nazis, they should be stopping them.

Saelune:

ObsidianJones:

erttheking:
Don't worry, this isn't an impulse purchase (that would be impossible anyway, MA has a lot of barriers to purchase for exactly that kind of reason. Also, firearm training isn't optional in MA, you need to go through it if you want a gun license. I've done my research on this front) I've been sitting on this one for a long time.

And when I say "when I have my loans and car payments taking care of" I mean "I'm going to do this in three years." Trust me, this isn't impulsive.

And as much as I get that they want a war, well Ghandi suggested that if Nazis come up to you, you should just let them kill you. Ghandi was full of shit. I have never been the type of person who goes looking for a fight. But if someone kicks my door in with intent to do harm, well, I'm not going to die for the sake of holding the moral high ground. And I mentioned that I was going to be buying a safe, that's because whenever I am not using it, it's going to be locked up in a place that only I know.

Trust me, I'll be doing a lot of talking to people when my loans are paid off and I'm actually going to start taking steps towards the purchase. Which, again, is going to be a couple of years. And don't worry, I've been very critical of those who treat guns like toys instead of tools of death. I'm not a hypocrite.

Ok, you seem to have it sorted out.

I'm sorry to welcome you into this life. But I'm glad we have more with their head screwed on.

If the NRA was about arming up against Nazis, I might not hate them, but they are about arming the people who side with Nazis. Nazis and the KKK are why I don't want guns to be as open and free as they are. No, it will not stop them from getting guns, but it would be nice if when they had guns, we knew it was because they are the bad guys. Instead of cops protecting KKK and Nazis, they should be stopping them.

.
Black Panthers. Look it up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD3uemBXG74
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeWPp81ankc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHWGAEF5GGA

Don't be useful idiots. Don't allow the government to take away more of your freedoms for your perceived safety. Take action, as is customary in your own nation.
.

Saelune:

TheIronRuler:
Call up the boys, resurrect the Black Panthers and use your god-given right to carry firearms and scare the crap out of white people.

Legally owned and licensed firearms, held by organized law-keeping black citizens for the safety of their communities.

Police wouldn't risk starting a riot, they'd rather protect the nazis from getting lynched.

Y'know when Nazis marched in New York in the 30s Lansky was asked low-key by the US government to crash their rallies and beat them to pieces...

https://allthatsinteresting.com/meyer-lansky-punch-a-nazi

He delivered.

This shouldn't be made illegal by any means. Let this surface, identify the ring-leaders and plan retribution. If you allow this to bubble under your feet you will lose track of the movement.

I regularly play devil's advocate here when "white nationalists" (as if that's a thing, bitter poor whites turning to populism for salvation) gets conflated with nazis. It's more productive to have a dialogue with these people and understand why they are lashing out (hint: It's opium, mechanization and globalization), and maybe even address these issues... These nazis? Break them.

This is why I have the problems with you that I do. There is no dialogue to be had with Nazis. They had their chance in 1938 and have proven they want only evil.

If they want a dialogue, it is on THEM to come to US with one. But they wont, cause they want to KILL US ALL. They are the bad guys, they choose to be the bad guys, and it is up to the good guys to stand up to them.

.
If there is no dialogue there is only conflict, and if you do not reach a hand out to those people you have forfeit them all.

erttheking:

Don't worry, this isn't an impulse purchase (that would be impossible anyway, MA has a lot of barriers to purchase for exactly that kind of reason. Also, firearm training isn't optional in MA, you need to go through it if you want a gun license. I've done my research on this front) I've been sitting on this one for a long time.

And when I say "when I have my loans and car payments taking care of" I mean "I'm going to do this in three years." Trust me, this isn't impulsive.

By comparison in my state if I wanted to legally concealed carry a pistol (or open carry for that matter) I'd just need to do what federal law mandates to buy the gun (as in the background check). We have legal open and concealed carry with no permits, just a minimum age requirement.

CaitSeith:

TheIronRuler:
It's opium

This is first time I ever heard about opium being brought up to be an issue here. What is this? The 19th century?

By which he means "opiates", as in opium derived drugs like heroin (that seems to be the popular one here lately - that and oxy).

TheIronRuler:

Saelune:

ObsidianJones:

Ok, you seem to have it sorted out.

I'm sorry to welcome you into this life. But I'm glad we have more with their head screwed on.

If the NRA was about arming up against Nazis, I might not hate them, but they are about arming the people who side with Nazis. Nazis and the KKK are why I don't want guns to be as open and free as they are. No, it will not stop them from getting guns, but it would be nice if when they had guns, we knew it was because they are the bad guys. Instead of cops protecting KKK and Nazis, they should be stopping them.

.
Black Panthers. Look it up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD3uemBXG74
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeWPp81ankc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHWGAEF5GGA

Don't be useful idiots. Don't allow the government to take away more of your freedoms for your perceived safety. Take action, as is customary in your own nation.
.

Saelune:

TheIronRuler:
Call up the boys, resurrect the Black Panthers and use your god-given right to carry firearms and scare the crap out of white people.

Legally owned and licensed firearms, held by organized law-keeping black citizens for the safety of their communities.

Police wouldn't risk starting a riot, they'd rather protect the nazis from getting lynched.

Y'know when Nazis marched in New York in the 30s Lansky was asked low-key by the US government to crash their rallies and beat them to pieces...

https://allthatsinteresting.com/meyer-lansky-punch-a-nazi

He delivered.

This shouldn't be made illegal by any means. Let this surface, identify the ring-leaders and plan retribution. If you allow this to bubble under your feet you will lose track of the movement.

I regularly play devil's advocate here when "white nationalists" (as if that's a thing, bitter poor whites turning to populism for salvation) gets conflated with nazis. It's more productive to have a dialogue with these people and understand why they are lashing out (hint: It's opium, mechanization and globalization), and maybe even address these issues... These nazis? Break them.

This is why I have the problems with you that I do. There is no dialogue to be had with Nazis. They had their chance in 1938 and have proven they want only evil.

If they want a dialogue, it is on THEM to come to US with one. But they wont, cause they want to KILL US ALL. They are the bad guys, they choose to be the bad guys, and it is up to the good guys to stand up to them.

.
If there is no dialogue there is only conflict, and if you do not reach a hand out to those people you have forfeit them all.

Remember when the Black Panthers murdered over 16 million people in concentration camps? Me neither.

Know what happaned when we opened a dialogue with Nazis before? They invaded Poland.

You are wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong, and your wrongness only allowes Nazis to keep being a problem.

Schadrach:

erttheking:

Don't worry, this isn't an impulse purchase (that would be impossible anyway, MA has a lot of barriers to purchase for exactly that kind of reason. Also, firearm training isn't optional in MA, you need to go through it if you want a gun license. I've done my research on this front) I've been sitting on this one for a long time.

And when I say "when I have my loans and car payments taking care of" I mean "I'm going to do this in three years." Trust me, this isn't impulsive.

By comparison in my state if I wanted to legally concealed carry a pistol (or open carry for that matter) I'd just need to do what federal law mandates to buy the gun (as in the background check). We have legal open and concealed carry with no permits, just a minimum age requirement.

I think I prefer my state.

Saelune:
.
Remember when the Black Panthers murdered over 16 million people in concentration camps? Me neither.

Know what happaned when we opened a dialogue with Nazis before? They invaded Poland.

You are wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong, and your wrongness only allowes Nazis to keep being a problem.

.
You misunderstand. Firstly, I am very much aware of the history of Europe during that time. I've been hit by the head with it since I was at primary school. Secondly, as I've said before, you conflate 'nazis' with other nationalist and populist groups which only serves to drive them towards the nazi cause. Open dialogue, understand their difficulties, and reconcile them. They turn to that extreme ideology out of desperation and anger. Trump won because he harassed that helplessness (and because he was a great campaigner). You risk alienating these communities, and you actively do, when you run around foaming at the mouth about Trump, the right wing and 'nazis'. Don't make the ideology illegal - confront it with force, as I've suggest above already twice and you seem to have misunderstood me twice. Black Panthers were a movement to defend the black community in the US, since in many places the police refused to do so. Gun laws are in place for a reason - and you too could have a trained militia, dedicated to patrolling the streets of your neighborhood and keeping you safe. Do not allow the government to exert force on these groups, because the permissions they will receive from the public will not be revoked, and they could be used at the discretion of any US government against groups it wants to put down. It was how the NSA and surveillance on citizens were approved following the 9/11 terror attacks. Siding with the government can have you give away your rights for perceived protection from these 'nazis'.

I know what happened when 'we' opened dialogue with the Nazis. They were allowed to annex the Saarland, and re-militarize the Rhineland without much protest. By the time of Ribbentrop-Molotov and the invasion of Poland Germany was not someone you could have a dialogue with. The strange last attempt of any dialogue was Rudolf Hess flying over to the UK and getting his ass landed in prison.

You are wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, and your wrongness only divides your country further, pushing people ever closer to extremes.

TheIronRuler:

Saelune:
.
Remember when the Black Panthers murdered over 16 million people in concentration camps? Me neither.

Know what happaned when we opened a dialogue with Nazis before? They invaded Poland.

You are wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong, and your wrongness only allowes Nazis to keep being a problem.

.
You misunderstand. Firstly, I am very much aware of the history of Europe during that time. I've been hit by the head with it since I was at primary school. Secondly, as I've said before, you conflate 'nazis' with other nationalist and populist groups which only serves to drive them towards the nazi cause. Open dialogue, understand their difficulties, and reconcile them. They turn to that extreme ideology out of desperation and anger. Trump won because he harassed that helplessness (and because he was a great campaigner). You risk alienating these communities, and you actively do, when you run around foaming at the mouth about Trump, the right wing and 'nazis'. Don't make the ideology illegal - confront it with force, as I've suggest above already twice and you seem to have misunderstood me twice. Black Panthers were a movement to defend the black community in the US, since in many places the police refused to do so. Gun laws are in place for a reason - and you too could have a trained militia, dedicated to patrolling the streets of your neighborhood and keeping you safe. Do not allow the government to exert force on these groups, because the permissions they will receive from the public will not be revoked, and they could be used at the discretion of any US government against groups it wants to put down. It was how the NSA and surveillance on citizens were approved following the 9/11 terror attacks. Siding with the government can have you give away your rights for perceived protection from these 'nazis'.

I know what happened when 'we' opened dialogue with the Nazis. They were allowed to annex the Saarland, and re-militarize the Rhineland without much protest. By the time of Ribbentrop-Molotov and the invasion of Poland Germany was not someone you could have a dialogue with. The strange last attempt of any dialogue was Rudolf Hess flying over to the UK and getting his ass landed in prison.

You are wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, and your wrongness only divides your country further, pushing people ever closer to extremes.

Ugh, got an error, lost my original reply.

You're victim blaming. You're NOT blaming the bad guys. You're telling the victims to bend over for their abusers, and that is beyond unfair of you. THEY made the division, not us. THEY said 'Kill all Jews/Blacks/LGBT people' not us. You are blaming the wrong people, and that is not ok.

If they want to beg for forgiveness, they can come to us and beg for it. Crazy thing is, I will give it to them, I am very willing to forgive people who ask for it. Most of them arent willing to do it, and that is not my fault.

It is your line of thinking that is the problem, it is the reason Nazis are still a problem after 70 years still.

Schadrach:

erttheking:

Don't worry, this isn't an impulse purchase (that would be impossible anyway, MA has a lot of barriers to purchase for exactly that kind of reason. Also, firearm training isn't optional in MA, you need to go through it if you want a gun license. I've done my research on this front) I've been sitting on this one for a long time.

And when I say "when I have my loans and car payments taking care of" I mean "I'm going to do this in three years." Trust me, this isn't impulsive.

By comparison in my state if I wanted to legally concealed carry a pistol (or open carry for that matter) I'd just need to do what federal law mandates to buy the gun (as in the background check). We have legal open and concealed carry with no permits, just a minimum age requirement.

CaitSeith:

TheIronRuler:
It's opium

This is first time I ever heard about opium being brought up to be an issue here. What is this? The 19th century?

By which he means "opiates", as in opium derived drugs like heroin (that seems to be the popular one here lately - that and oxy).

Sure, but the most problematic ones are the synthetic opioids, which their overdose death ratio has spiked very recently at a pretty fast pace. That's why it confused me.

Saelune:

TheIronRuler:

Saelune:
.
Remember when the Black Panthers murdered over 16 million people in concentration camps? Me neither.

Know what happaned when we opened a dialogue with Nazis before? They invaded Poland.

You are wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong, and your wrongness only allowes Nazis to keep being a problem.

.
You misunderstand. Firstly, I am very much aware of the history of Europe during that time. I've been hit by the head with it since I was at primary school. Secondly, as I've said before, you conflate 'nazis' with other nationalist and populist groups which only serves to drive them towards the nazi cause. Open dialogue, understand their difficulties, and reconcile them. They turn to that extreme ideology out of desperation and anger. Trump won because he harassed that helplessness (and because he was a great campaigner). You risk alienating these communities, and you actively do, when you run around foaming at the mouth about Trump, the right wing and 'nazis'. Don't make the ideology illegal - confront it with force, as I've suggest above already twice and you seem to have misunderstood me twice. Black Panthers were a movement to defend the black community in the US, since in many places the police refused to do so. Gun laws are in place for a reason - and you too could have a trained militia, dedicated to patrolling the streets of your neighborhood and keeping you safe. Do not allow the government to exert force on these groups, because the permissions they will receive from the public will not be revoked, and they could be used at the discretion of any US government against groups it wants to put down. It was how the NSA and surveillance on citizens were approved following the 9/11 terror attacks. Siding with the government can have you give away your rights for perceived protection from these 'nazis'.

I know what happened when 'we' opened dialogue with the Nazis. They were allowed to annex the Saarland, and re-militarize the Rhineland without much protest. By the time of Ribbentrop-Molotov and the invasion of Poland Germany was not someone you could have a dialogue with. The strange last attempt of any dialogue was Rudolf Hess flying over to the UK and getting his ass landed in prison.

You are wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, and your wrongness only divides your country further, pushing people ever closer to extremes.

Ugh, got an error, lost my original reply.

You're victim blaming. You're NOT blaming the bad guys. You're telling the victims to bend over for their abusers, and that is beyond unfair of you. THEY made the division, not us. THEY said 'Kill all Jews/Blacks/LGBT people' not us. You are blaming the wrong people, and that is not ok.

If they want to beg for forgiveness, they can come to us and beg for it. Crazy thing is, I will give it to them, I am very willing to forgive people who ask for it. Most of them arent willing to do it, and that is not my fault.

It is your line of thinking that is the problem, it is the reason Nazis are still a problem after 70 years still.

.
At least try to address any of my points.

TheIronRuler:
You conflate 'nazis' with other nationalist and populist groups which only serves to drive them towards the nazi cause.

You are laying a nasty Catch-22. If those groups have all the same goals and ideologies than the nazi, then they are just nazis with a different color. If all that was it needed for them to join is Saelune's accusations, then they were just waiting for an excuse (and nazis will just make up one for them when there is none). And a pretty big issue is that those groups do no effort to keep nazis away from them, which ends up in radicalizing their members, no matter what the left does.

CaitSeith:

TheIronRuler:
You conflate 'nazis' with other nationalist and populist groups which only serves to drive them towards the nazi cause.

You are laying a nasty Catch-22. If those groups have all the same goals and ideologies than the nazi, then they are just nazis with a different color. If all that was it needed for them to join is Saelune's accusations, then they were just waiting for an excuse (and nazis will just make up one for them when there is none). And a pretty big issue is that those groups do no effort to keep nazis away from them, which ends up in radicalizing their members, no matter what the left does.

.
Yes. If only Saelune would stop accusing them, there will be no more nazis.

I sense hostility because I ask to treat these people as reasonable humans, that can be convinced to stop what they're doing... and understand their mistakes. If you read my earlier posts, you could understand better my suggestions.

You seem to have trouble with reading comprehension when it comes to my posts. Maybe it's just because English isn't my first language, I don't know. Could be because you refuse to actually try to understand my points at all.

TheIronRuler:
I know what happened when 'we' opened dialogue with the Nazis. They were allowed to annex the Saarland, and re-militarize the Rhineland without much protest. By the time of Ribbentrop-Molotov and the invasion of Poland Germany was not someone you could have a dialogue with. The strange last attempt of any dialogue was Rudolf Hess flying over to the UK and getting his ass landed in prison.

A much more recent example of this happening would be National Socialist Party of America v. Village of Skokie, 432 U.S. 43 (1977) which resulted in the court upholding free speech rights, and no Sudatenlands ended up getting annexed. It's almost like contemporary American politics are vastly different than WWII and that one cannot apply the same rules of engagement without sounding like a hyperbolic lunatic who sees a fascist behind every tree.

As for these people, they committed a litany of crimes against people and property (seriously, if you want to destroy flags to make a political point, buy your own) and should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Considering they were considerate enough to commit their crimes in front of cameras, it should be an easy prosecution. You can always write in to the DA's office about this if you think they're moving too slow on it.

TheIronRuler:
Call up the boys, resurrect the Black Panthers and use your god-given right to carry firearms and scare the crap out of white people.

That's also an option. Those of us on the right will absolutely never give up our firearms, period, end of conversation, and the same rights to bear arms apply equally to those on the left.

CM156:

Saelune:
I know what happened when 'we' opened dialogue with the Nazis. They were allowed to annex the Saarland, and re-militarize the Rhineland without much protest. By the time of Ribbentrop-Molotov and the invasion of Poland Germany was not someone you could have a dialogue with. The strange last attempt of any dialogue was Rudolf Hess flying over to the UK and getting his ass landed in prison.

A much more recent example of this happening would be National Socialist Party of America v. Village of Skokie, 432 U.S. 43 (1977) which resulted in the court upholding free speech rights, and no Sudatenlands ended up getting annexed. It's almost like contemporary American politics are vastly different than WWII and that one cannot apply the same rules of engagement without sounding like a hyperbolic lunatic who sees a fascist behind every tree.

As for these people, they committed a litany of crimes against people and property and should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Considering they were considerate enough to commit their crimes in front of cameras, it should be an easy prosecution. You can always write in to the DA's office about this if you think they're moving too slow on it.

TheIronRuler:
Call up the boys, resurrect the Black Panthers and use your god-given right to carry firearms and scare the crap out of white people.

That's also an option. Those of us on the right will absolutely never give up our firearms, period, end of conversation, and the same rights to bear arms apply equally to those on the left.

.
You did an oopsie on the quote earlier.

I was flexing my history nerd knowledge. It's irrelevant here, but I felt a need to do it.

TheIronRuler:

CM156:

Saelune:
I know what happened when 'we' opened dialogue with the Nazis. They were allowed to annex the Saarland, and re-militarize the Rhineland without much protest. By the time of Ribbentrop-Molotov and the invasion of Poland Germany was not someone you could have a dialogue with. The strange last attempt of any dialogue was Rudolf Hess flying over to the UK and getting his ass landed in prison.

A much more recent example of this happening would be National Socialist Party of America v. Village of Skokie, 432 U.S. 43 (1977) which resulted in the court upholding free speech rights, and no Sudatenlands ended up getting annexed. It's almost like contemporary American politics are vastly different than WWII and that one cannot apply the same rules of engagement without sounding like a hyperbolic lunatic who sees a fascist behind every tree.

As for these people, they committed a litany of crimes against people and property and should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Considering they were considerate enough to commit their crimes in front of cameras, it should be an easy prosecution. You can always write in to the DA's office about this if you think they're moving too slow on it.

TheIronRuler:
Call up the boys, resurrect the Black Panthers and use your god-given right to carry firearms and scare the crap out of white people.

That's also an option. Those of us on the right will absolutely never give up our firearms, period, end of conversation, and the same rights to bear arms apply equally to those on the left.

.
You did an oopsie on the quote earlier.

I was flexing my history nerd knowledge. It's irrelevant here, but I felt a need to do it.

I'm not sure I understand what my oopsie was.

CM156:

TheIronRuler:

CM156:

A much more recent example of this happening would be National Socialist Party of America v. Village of Skokie, 432 U.S. 43 (1977) which resulted in the court upholding free speech rights, and no Sudatenlands ended up getting annexed. It's almost like contemporary American politics are vastly different than WWII and that one cannot apply the same rules of engagement without sounding like a hyperbolic lunatic who sees a fascist behind every tree.

As for these people, they committed a litany of crimes against people and property and should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Considering they were considerate enough to commit their crimes in front of cameras, it should be an easy prosecution. You can always write in to the DA's office about this if you think they're moving too slow on it.

That's also an option. Those of us on the right will absolutely never give up our firearms, period, end of conversation, and the same rights to bear arms apply equally to those on the left.

.
You did an oopsie on the quote earlier.

I was flexing my history nerd knowledge. It's irrelevant here, but I felt a need to do it.

I'm not sure I understand what my oopsie was.

.
You quoted my paragraph, when the post was attributed to Saelune. So either you meant to quote me, or you thought Saelune wrote that.

TheIronRuler:

CM156:

TheIronRuler:

.
You did an oopsie on the quote earlier.

I was flexing my history nerd knowledge. It's irrelevant here, but I felt a need to do it.

I'm not sure I understand what my oopsie was.

.
You quoted my paragraph, when the post was attributed to Saelune. So either you meant to quote me, or you thought Saelune wrote that.

Ahhh, sorry, my mistake there. Very sorry about that.

erttheking:

ObsidianJones:

Ok, you seem to have it sorted out.

I'm sorry to welcome you into this life. But I'm glad we have more with their head screwed on.

I appreciate you wanting me to have my head clear when doing this. Thank you.

Hey, you're apart of my community. I look out for my community.

You're also pretty awesome, so that helps.

The Lunatic:
Oh no, a couple of assholes attacked a pride parade.
Let's round up every white guy and accuse them of being war criminals.

Strange, when people within the BLM movement was destroying shops, shooting people and generally being a complete load of assholes, we heard constantly that a few bad examples don't override the entire movement.

I guess the same doesn't apply when it's white people asking to uphold their freedom of speech. Seems a little racist to me.

This post is The Lunatic defending literal Nazis.

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