[Politics] Nazis Attack LGBT Pride Parade

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 NEXT
 

Saelune:
I know what your point is Leg End. It is to use these children like a human shield, just like they were used as before by the Nazis.

No. My point is that you would condemn children to hell, and consider those as having paid their souls.

You don't care about standing up to Nazis, and how do I know this?

Because in the topic about literal Nazis attacking an LGBT pride parade, YOU are DEFENDING NAZIS against the LGBT person.

Children conscripted to military service are not Nazis. To say I am defending Nazis or Nazism in any way is to either be completely blind to what I am saying, or to say that those Children are exactly the same as a full on member of the Nazi party, and deserve whatever they get. Admit that's the truth on what you believe, or concede that I have a point. People forced into combat are not the same as believers of bullshit ideology. I'm calling you out because you are going way too far.

Didnt exactly work out for your buddy Lunatic, did it?

Do you assume that everyone that disagrees with you are friends?

By the way, whats your opinion on that? Id LOVE for you to make a visible post about that.

He got banned relating to recent rule changes. I saw it coming from a mile away, as did most of the people in this thread. Do I agree with what he was saying relating to the Neo-Nazis that showed up at the parade? No. They were armed and committed crimes while armed. Do I think he should have been banned? No.

What exactly do you think I'm going to say?

Leg End:

Saelune:
I know what your point is Leg End. It is to use these children like a human shield, just like they were used as before by the Nazis.

No. My point is that you would condemn children to hell, and consider those as having paid their souls.

You don't care about standing up to Nazis, and how do I know this?

Because in the topic about literal Nazis attacking an LGBT pride parade, YOU are DEFENDING NAZIS against the LGBT person.

Children conscripted to military service are not Nazis. To say I am defending Nazis or Nazism in any way is to either be completely blind to what I am saying, or to say that those Children are exactly the same as a full on member of the Nazi party, and deserve whatever they get. Admit that's the truth on what you believe, or concede that I have a point. People forced into combat are not the same as believers of bullshit ideology. I'm calling you out because you are going way too far.

Didnt exactly work out for your buddy Lunatic, did it?

Do you assume that everyone that disagrees with you are friends?

By the way, whats your opinion on that? Id LOVE for you to make a visible post about that.

He got banned relating to recent rule changes. I saw it coming from a mile away, as did most of the people in this thread. Do I agree with what he was saying relating to the Neo-Nazis that showed up at the parade? No. They were armed and committed crimes while armed. Do I think he should have been banned? No.

What exactly do you think I'm going to say?

Choice. Something I have pointed out often, is choice. I know you know this and are just looking for excuses to condemn me instead of Nazis, but fine. Children did not have the choice the adults had. The adults chose to support Hitler, the children were forced. Happy now? I know the answer is no, because you have no desire to actually understand my point, but then, I know you will never come around either.

I am pretty confident you have called Lunatic your friend. Might have been in one of those PMs. I could go looking for it. You have atleast had interacted with him cordially outside of the Escapist. Arent you part of some discord group with Lunatic, vallorn and other WWers? Ofcourse maybe that's fallen through since then. I wouldn't know.

Sometimes you just need people to make thier views and intentions clear.

Why should he not have been banned?

Saelune:
Choice. Something I have pointed out often, is choice. I know you know this and are just looking for excuses to condemn me instead of Nazis, but fine. Children did not have the choice the adults had. The adults chose to support Hitler, the children were forced. Happy now? I know the answer is no, because you have no desire to actually understand my point, but then, I know you will never come around either.

As you seem to understand, not everyone has a choice. Those kids didn't, and a shitload of adults didn't. There is a reason that in a proper discussion regarding the topic, most generally refer to Nazi Germany as what it is, or Germany. To say everyone that fought in the German Army is a Nazi or had the free choice to do so under sane circumstances is absolute crap. The idiots in the march? Neo-Nazis and they choose to be such. Men being fed to the grinder have no such choice. You deny those forgotten people their humanity.

I am pretty confident you have called Lunatic your friend. Might have been in one of those PMs.

I mean, I don't exactly know him well and him to me so to say friends on either side would be saying much, but I don't dislike the guy so...

I could go looking for it. You have atleast had interacted with him cordially outside of the Escapist. Arent you part of some discord group with Lunatic, vallorn and other WWers? Ofcourse maybe that's fallen through since then. I wouldn't know.

I've had contact with him outside of here, but to take that as being buds is a bit much. I know and have contact with a lot of people outside of here.

Sometimes you just need people to make thier views and intentions clear.

I've made them as clear as possible as many times as I have had the chance.

Why should he not have been banned?

I don't think he was defending Nazism, and I generally don't like where the site seems to be going, but that's not here nor there. You know I'm very much pro-haveyouropinion kind of guy.

Leg End:

Saelune:
Choice. Something I have pointed out often, is choice. I know you know this and are just looking for excuses to condemn me instead of Nazis, but fine. Children did not have the choice the adults had. The adults chose to support Hitler, the children were forced. Happy now? I know the answer is no, because you have no desire to actually understand my point, but then, I know you will never come around either.

As you seem to understand, not everyone has a choice. Those kids didn't, and a shitload of adults didn't. There is a reason that in a proper discussion regarding the topic, most generally refer to Nazi Germany as what it is, or Germany. To say everyone that fought in the German Army is a Nazi or had the free choice to do so under sane circumstances is absolute crap. The idiots in the march? Neo-Nazis and they choose to be such. Men being fed to the grinder have no such choice. You deny those forgotten people their humanity.

I am pretty confident you have called Lunatic your friend. Might have been in one of those PMs.

I mean, I don't exactly know him well and him to me so to say friends on either side would be saying much, but I don't dislike the guy so...

I could go looking for it. You have atleast had interacted with him cordially outside of the Escapist. Arent you part of some discord group with Lunatic, vallorn and other WWers? Ofcourse maybe that's fallen through since then. I wouldn't know.

I've had contact with him outside of here, but to take that as being buds is a bit much. I know and have contact with a lot of people outside of here.

Sometimes you just need people to make thier views and intentions clear.

I've made them as clear as possible as many times as I have had the chance.

Why should he not have been banned?

I don't think he was defending Nazism, and I generally don't like where the site seems to be going, but that's not here nor there.

Then I don't have a choice in hating Nazis and thus am immune to repercussions. *shrug*

There is always a choice, the good ones just suck to do sometimes, but throwing your Jewish neighbors under the bus was the wrong choice. Part of the choice was not letting Hitler come to power. Hitler made no secret of his bigotry, his rise to power relied on it. He was supported BECAUSE he was bigoted. Could always surrender to the allies instead of ya know, shooting them.

Well you should dislike him now. Maybe I was wrong in thinking you directly called him a friend, but you have defended him repeatedly, and turns out you were wrong.

No, you intentionally refused to list your political views and instead sent me PMs about it. As for your other views, you have made some of them clear, which is why I keep ending up arguing with you. Too many of your views are bad ones.

This site seems to be going to punishing Nazi-sympathizers. It is a refreshing way to go, hope it wasnt a fluke.

The Lunatic absolutely was defending Nazis and has historically expressed white-supremacist views. He defended the Nazi who murdered Heather Heyer, he defended White Supremacist rioters, The Lunatic was formerly the farthest right-winger known here.

Saelune:
Then I don't have a choice in hating Nazis and thus am immune to repercussions. *shrug*

What even?

There is always a choice, the good ones just suck to do sometimes, but throwing your Jewish neighbors under the bus was the wrong choice.

You know there was a shitload more to the German Army than hunting Juden, right? Good chunk of that was being fed to the grinder on the Eastern front against other dudes being fed to the grinder because Stalin was a shithead.

Part of the choice was not letting Hitler come to power. Hitler made no secret of his bigotry, his rise to power relied on it. He was supported BECAUSE he was bigoted.

So we'll just throw the manipulation and false flags and general fuckery in the trash and say every German citizen was responsible. Great. Are you responsible for Trump?

Could always surrender to the allies instead of ya know, shooting them.

Guess what surrender or desertion got you? Sounds so simple, but it isn't.

Well you should dislike him now.

Eh.

Maybe I was wrong in thinking you directly called him a friend, but you have defended him repeatedly, and turns out you were wrong.

Wrong on what? Pretty sure he's not a Nazi. If he is, don't care. Frankly I've stopped caring about most things a long time ago.

No, you intentionally refused to list your political views and instead sent me PMs about it.

On the most extreme end, Voluntaryist. Freedom of Association. That's the core principle.

As for your other views, you have made some of them clear, which is why I keep ending up arguing with you. Too many of your views are bad ones.

So I refused to list them, yet I've listed them. Alright.

Saelune:
Arent you part of some discord group with Lunatic, vallorn and other WWers? Ofcourse maybe that's fallen through since then. I wouldn't know.

I wonder if that group knows they're harboring a Nazi sympathizer. They might want to do something about that, guilt-by-association and all that jazz.

'Evict the bad actors' is what they would always tell to the group(s) I was part of myself. They need to make sure they follow their own advice.

Schadrach:

Lil devils x:
*snip*

Consider what you would want to enforce your desires. Aside from the word "communist", how different does it sound from something McCarthy would have been all over?

ObsidianJones:

And why not Berkeley, CA? Because it's a land mass. There's nothing going on other than vague everpresent assumptions of who lives there and what they believe.

This was an actual gathering of what these people hate. Not in theory, but actual people and numbers. Not everyone in Berkeley, CA is a ultra-liberal, interracial couple who adopted intergendered babies from other countries with different faiths. Some people in Berkeley, CA hates those types of people as much as the NSM.

You misunderstand - I asked why not just go to Berkeley because Berkeley is kinda well known for violent counter protests against anything even vaguely right wing. Just announce plans to go there and the "enemy" would march on you and be a hair trigger from violence. It's basically the ideal site for your "Martyr Maneuver", because there are already organized groups in place to oppose you, that routinely respond with violence. You wouldn't even have to march on an otherwise peaceful event, merely show up to, I don't know, publicly preach in support of your misbegotten ideology and they'd show up looking for a fight.

I have considered enforcement, They have been enforcing not shouting fire in a theater since 1919 and the fighting words doctrine since the 1940's in the US and this would be no different than enforcing any other laws we have in the US. In the US they have been seizing bank accounts of criminals for a very long time now, this would be no different.

The word " communist" has nothing to do with the enforcement of the laws, "communist" means to share property, and has nothing to do with the enforcement of the law. DO you think that the US arresting members of ISIS and Alqueda and seizing their bank accounts is communist or are they ensuring the " general welfare of the people". You should keep in mind that the general welfare of non white citizens in the US is included in that now. White Nationalists have carried out numerous terror attacks on US soil, far more than any other terrorist ideology combined. They have been enabling them entirely too long and this needs to finally cease. They should not be given special exemption simply because they are white. They are terrorists and should be treated as such.

Leg End:

Saelune:
Then I don't have a choice in hating Nazis and thus am immune to repercussions. *shrug*

What even?

There is always a choice, the good ones just suck to do sometimes, but throwing your Jewish neighbors under the bus was the wrong choice.

You know there was a shitload more to the German Army than hunting Juden, right? Good chunk of that was being fed to the grinder on the Eastern front against other dudes being fed to the grinder because Stalin was a shithead.

Part of the choice was not letting Hitler come to power. Hitler made no secret of his bigotry, his rise to power relied on it. He was supported BECAUSE he was bigoted.

So we'll just throw the manipulation and false flags and general fuckery in the trash and say every German citizen was responsible. Great. Are you responsible for Trump?

Could always surrender to the allies instead of ya know, shooting them.

Guess what surrender or desertion got you? Sounds so simple, but it isn't.

Well you should dislike him now.

Eh.

Maybe I was wrong in thinking you directly called him a friend, but you have defended him repeatedly, and turns out you were wrong.

Wrong on what? Pretty sure he's not a Nazi. If he is, don't care. Frankly I've stopped caring about most things a long time ago.

No, you intentionally refused to list your political views and instead sent me PMs about it.

On the most extreme end, Voluntaryist. Freedom of Association. That's the core principle.

As for your other views, you have made some of them clear, which is why I keep ending up arguing with you. Too many of your views are bad ones.

So I refused to list them, yet I've listed them. Alright.

In the topic about Nazis attacking people, all you are doing is defending Nazis and trying to shift blame to others.

That is not the actions of someone who opposes Nazis.

IceForce:

Saelune:
Arent you part of some discord group with Lunatic, vallorn and other WWers? Ofcourse maybe that's fallen through since then. I wouldn't know.

I wonder if that group knows they're harboring a Nazi sympathizer. They might want to do something about that, guilt-by-association and all that jazz.

'Evict the bad actors' is what they would always tell to the group(s) I was part of myself. They need to make sure they follow their own advice.

Right-Wingers are consistently hypocritical.

tstorm823:

CaitSeith:

Try logging out from Google or use incognito mode in your browser.

Opens incognito window. "Detroit pride nazis". No pushing people to the ground. "detroit pride nazis pushing people to the ground". Still nothing. "Detroit pride nazi attack". Not getting there. Switches to Bing instead. "Detroit pride nazi attack". There's some pictures of people pushing people to the ground, finally! From 2015. In Kiev. To finally find this picture you're talking about, I had to find a news article about the event that gave the picture of tearing a flag apart credit to the source, trace that picture from there back to Reuters and scan through their gallery of images to find the right one. Woof.

And all that to find pictures of a woman who got knocked over while trying to physically block them in a cross walk in front of traffic with her own body, quite obviously before they reached the police who actually stopped them. That really wasn't worth the effort.

What's your goal here?
Are you implying that nazis are a peaceful movement who are being unfairly maligned?
Are you stepping up to fill Lunatic's role?

Saelune:
In the topic about Nazis attacking people, all you are doing is defending Nazis and trying to shift blame to others.

Nope. I made you understand that children to not pay their souls for something they had no choice in.

That is not the actions of someone who opposes Nazis.

When they start committing crimes while armed in my neck of the woods where I don't need to board a plane to do something about it, don't worry, you'll see my response then. Calling out these shitheads has been a universal thing in this thread pretty much, and I only bothered posting because you were not realizing the full extent of your own words.

TheIronRuler:

Agema:
snip

.
Thanks, that was a good read. What is your profession?

Thank you! I'm an academic; I lecture in pharmacology and neuroscience at a medical school.

Leg End:
When they start committing crimes while armed in my neck of the woods where I don't need to board a plane to do something about it, don't worry, you'll see my response then.

I didn't realize you lived that close to the USSR.

Leg End:
You know there was a shitload more to the German Army than hunting Juden, right? Good chunk of that was being fed to the grinder on the Eastern front against other dudes being fed to the grinder because Stalin was a shithead.

Leg End:
So we'll just throw the manipulation and false flags and general fuckery in the trash and say every German citizen was responsible. Great.

Nobody said or implied that.

Kwak:

What's your goal here?
Are you implying that nazis are a peaceful movement who are being unfairly maligned?
Are you stepping up to fill Lunatic's role?

No, I think the Nazis are fairly maligned. I think the police were unfairly maligned, because by my understanding the police headed off the Nazis before they could get to the Pride event and kept them physically contained until they left under the threat of arrest if they did anything remotely against the law. Upon bringing this up, I was asked about pictures circulating of someone pushed to the ground, as though this picture contradicts that view of the police presence. By saying "what about this picture" I was expecting the picture to show the Nazis getting violent and the police doing nothing to stop them. After having to dig through the internet myself for a picture than was vaguely described to me, I find out the picture shows a woman on the ground after trying to physically push back a nazi herself, so it's not clear a crime was committed, but even assuming they assaulted her, there are neither police nor the Pride crowd in the picture, which makes me think that happened before the Nazis got to the police and the police were likely unaware that had happened. So how does that picture contradict a defense of the police? I don't know.

Silvanus:

Leg End:
So we'll just throw the manipulation and false flags and general fuckery in the trash and say every German citizen was responsible. Great.

Nobody said or implied that.

Everyone who supported Nazis was responsible and anyone who didn't do everything they could against it chose to effectively support it too. Heavily implied.

tstorm823:

Kwak:

What's your goal here?
Are you implying that nazis are a peaceful movement who are being unfairly maligned?
Are you stepping up to fill Lunatic's role?

No, I think the Nazis are fairly maligned. I think the police were unfairly maligned, because by my understanding the police headed off the Nazis before they could get to the Pride event and kept them physically contained until they left under the threat of arrest if they did anything remotely against the law. Upon bringing this up, I was asked about pictures circulating of someone pushed to the ground, as though this picture contradicts that view of the police presence. By saying "what about this picture" I was expecting the picture to show the Nazis getting violent and the police doing nothing to stop them. After having to dig through the internet myself for a picture than was vaguely described to me, I find out the picture shows a woman on the ground after trying to physically push back a nazi herself, so it's not clear a crime was committed, but even assuming they assaulted her, there are neither police nor the Pride crowd in the picture, which makes me think that happened before the Nazis got to the police and the police were likely unaware that had happened. So how does that picture contradict a defense of the police? I don't know.

Well alright then.

McElroy:
Everyone who supported Nazis was responsible and anyone who didn't do everything they could against it chose to effectively support it too. Heavily implied.

Hmm, I can see a lot of stuff about soldiers (with caveats about children being victims themselves). Nothing about "all citizens".

Silvanus:

Hmm, I can see a lot of stuff about soldiers (with caveats about children being victims themselves). Nothing about "all citizens".

Part of the choice was not letting Hitler come to power. Hitler made no secret of his bigotry, his rise to power relied on it. He was supported BECAUSE he was bigoted.

The way I read this does not in any way involve enlistment in the military, but instead relates to the political sphere and thus, the German people as a whole.

McElroy:

Silvanus:

Leg End:
So we'll just throw the manipulation and false flags and general fuckery in the trash and say every German citizen was responsible. Great.

Nobody said or implied that.

Everyone who supported Nazis was responsible and anyone who didn't do everything they could against it chose to effectively support it too. Heavily implied.

More so in regard to conscription, if you did not resist conscription (i.e. submit to execution) then you are just as bad as those who were forcing the conscription upon you.

I believe the words were that if anyone fought for Nazi Germany then they were as bad as the Nazis, despite them not knowing exactly what crimes the Nazi regime was guilty of. According to most they were just an occupying force.

Leg End:
The way I read this does not in any way involve enlistment in the military, but instead relates to the political sphere and thus, the German people as a whole.

This seems to directly refer to people that supported him during his rise to power.

And... yes, they held some measure of responsibility for what came after.

Silvanus:

Leg End:
The way I read this does not in any way involve enlistment in the military, but instead relates to the political sphere and thus, the German people as a whole.

This seems to directly refer to people that supported him during his rise to power.

And... yes, they held some measure of responsibility for what came after.

.
You shouldn't try to play attorney for Saelune.

Saelune:

100% of Hitler's supporters are Nazis. Every soldier that fought for Nazi Germany was a Nazi, whether they joined the party or not, whether they 'agreed' with him or not, because in the end, they helped him commit his evil, they fought his war, they ousted their neighbors to the camps. Maybe they were 'just protecting their family' or 'defending their homeland', but at the cost of their very souls.

Saelune is like... the image I had when I was heavily invested in alt-right american media of the typical leftist... It surprised me they weren't all just hyperbolic nonsense. There are people that feel that the most important things in life are equality and the environment, and that all conservatives that supported Trump are racist bigots, etc. and to top it off, Saelune doesn't seem to want to engage in a discussion with the purpose of challenging their opinions.
.

Leg End:

Silvanus:

Hmm, I can see a lot of stuff about soldiers (with caveats about children being victims themselves). Nothing about "all citizens".

Part of the choice was not letting Hitler come to power. Hitler made no secret of his bigotry, his rise to power relied on it. He was supported BECAUSE he was bigoted.

The way I read this does not in any way involve enlistment in the military, but instead relates to the political sphere and thus, the German people as a whole.

.
It was about German soldiers under the Nazi regime. No doubt about it.
.

Abomination:

McElroy:

Silvanus:

Nobody said or implied that.

Everyone who supported Nazis was responsible and anyone who didn't do everything they could against it chose to effectively support it too. Heavily implied.

More so in regard to conscription, if you did not resist conscription (i.e. submit to execution) then you are just as bad as those who were forcing the conscription upon you.

I believe the words were that if anyone fought for Nazi Germany then they were as bad as the Nazis, despite them not knowing exactly what crimes the Nazi regime was guilty of. According to most they were just an occupying force.

.
Agreed, with one caveat. Many regular Germans knew about what the SS units were doing in the east. The undesirables weren't deported to a different land... they were deported to the sky, in the form of ash.

TheIronRuler:

You shouldn't try to play attorney for Saelune.

I'm just tired of words getting put in people's mouths.

Saelune is like... the image I had when I was heavily invested in alt-right american media of the typical leftist... It surprised me they weren't all just hyperbolic nonsense. There are people that feel that the most important things in life are equality and the environment, and that all conservatives that supported Trump are racist bigots, etc. and to top it off, Saelune doesn't seem to want to engage in a discussion with the purpose of challenging their opinions.

Neither do most online commentators. The majority are here for the sport of it, for fun, or to hone the craft of argument.

TheIronRuler:
Saelune is like... the image I had when I was heavily invested in alt-right american media of the typical leftist... It surprised me they weren't all just hyperbolic nonsense. There are people that feel that the most important things in life are equality and the environment, and that all conservatives that supported Trump are racist bigots, etc. and to top it off, Saelune doesn't seem to want to engage in a discussion with the purpose of challenging their opinions.

You mean Saelune is literally like most of the people on the internet?

Let's get something Clear. Saelune hasn't had an easy life. From what I recall, the home life was hard... in fact, nonexistent when Saelune admitted to being LBGTQ. Bullied, harassed, marginalized for just being true. True to how an individual was born, and feels.

As much as I seen, Saelune said more than you're responsible for Trump if you voted for Trump. And if you're republican, you're responsible for not picking a better candidate than Trump. And I think that's as fair as an assessment as Democrats and Republicans saying we Liberals and Democrats are responsible for losing 2016 because we picked Hillary Clinton. I chose Bernie, but I get it.

If a person has to fight in every second of every day, and still is having their rights decided FOR them, I understand the passion. I'm a black guy and I still go over in my head who has it rougher in this day and age. I chose one way of acting, but let it be known that it wasn't actually BY choice. If I could get loud, I might. But I know that when my voice raises to a higher level, people whip out the phones and call 911.

But let's not just try to use Saelune as a scapegoat. I got into a knock-down, drag out issue when I talked about how Christians might want to keep their holiest of days (Christmas) to be about Christmas with several people on this forum. There are Atheists here who are the spitting image of what the Faithful fear. There are all shades of people. We get into problems when we don't look at what has gone into how they are acting and why, and just look at their label and go "Ok, got it. It's because that person is one of them."

TheIronRuler:
Saelune doesn't seem to want to engage in a discussion with the purpose of challenging their opinions.

What is there to challenge? There's no discussion and no debate with people who identify with the Nazi party. These people aren't deluded about what the Nazis stood for. They know exactly what they stood for and they embrace those ideals wholeheartedly. This is not a harmless fuckin' joke. Nazi ideals are fundamentally incompatible with the modern diverse society. These people literally want to kill everyone they deem to be of lesser race or ethnicity etc. At the very least they want to deprive them of equal rights.

There's not a whole lot of difference between Nazis and the fuckin' ISIS or any of the Islamic extremists. The only important thing differentiating them at this point is the fact that the Nazis aren't strong enough to do what Islamic extremists in the Middle East can do. They can't get away with most of that shit so they don't try. So how about we do something about it before they grow stronger? Because it is literally us (normal people aka not fuckin' Nazis) vs them. And in the good old days being a Nazi would have earned you a bullet in the head if you're fuckin' lucky. And now we're seriously debating about giving those people a platform and debating them? Absolutely not. Fuck Nazis.

TheIronRuler:
Saelune doesn't seem to want to engage in a discussion with the purpose of challenging their opinions. .

Here's a secret. The alt right? Nazis? Etc? They thrive off people "challenging" their opinions in open debate. Why? Because facts and logic doesn't apply to their ideals, so it's impossible for them to "lose".

You show me a video of an alt right dude getting fucking wrecked in a debate and I'll show you the same video spread around subreddits and chan boards of that same man "owning the lefties". Any publicity is good publicity for them, and its monumentally better to just not give them a platform.

undeadsuitor:

TheIronRuler:
Saelune doesn't seem to want to engage in a discussion with the purpose of challenging their opinions. .

Here's a secret. The alt right? Nazis? Etc? They thrive off people "challenging" their opinions in open debate. Why? Because facts and logic doesn't apply to their ideals, so it's impossible for them to "lose".

You show me a video of an alt right dude getting fucking wrecked in a debate and I'll show you the same video spread around subreddits and chan boards of that same man "owning the lefties". Any publicity is good publicity for them, and its monumentally better to just not give them a platform.

.
I've written in a previous post, one of the first I responded with to criticism over my appeal to reason. I said that if you silence the opposition you lose the ability to follow their moves and push them further to the edge. You wouldn't make it stop - you'd only make it harder to join - but if you make it illegal, you make it more radical and exciting to join as well.

This is the problem you have with me - I ask for dialogue. You're not the only person that has this problem with me. I've been to /pol/ last week for the first time partly because of your remarks. I wanted to check it out and see it for myself. If I wasn't one of their greatest enemies I would have been sucked in because it's fascinating. I realized how deluded these guys are... It made me check some of their memes, and a whole new world of conspiracies opened up for me. It was like I was a kid in a candy-shop, and every candy was a lollipop with a razor in it. I tried to take them seriously - because so many people do - and I couldn't. My take on it - they're deeply entrenched in their dream-world, and there's little you can do to pull them back if you debate them on the internet. The solution? Ah. Here is my solution. Do not push them outside of the law. Address the issues that some of these people are facing - hardships that plagued regions in America which the media and government forget to acknowledge... Drugs, unemployment, neglect... People who voted for Trump because they were in a bad spot economically and wanted to change that.

I do not think that people who voted for Trump voted for him because they were racists or bigots or whatever.

Saelune just likes to activate Godwin's law like it's a stand.

Here's the original post if you care to read it.

TheIronRuler:
Call up the boys, resurrect the Black Panthers and use your god-given right to carry firearms and scare the crap out of white people.

Legally owned and licensed firearms, held by organized law-keeping black citizens for the safety of their communities.

Police wouldn't risk starting a riot, they'd rather protect the nazis from getting lynched.

Y'know when Nazis marched in New York in the 30s Lansky was asked low-key by the US government to crash their rallies and beat them to pieces...

https://allthatsinteresting.com/meyer-lansky-punch-a-nazi

He delivered.

This shouldn't be made illegal by any means. Let this surface, identify the ring-leaders and plan retribution. If you allow this to bubble under your feet you will lose track of the movement.

I regularly play devil's advocate here when "white nationalists" (as if that's a thing, bitter poor whites turning to populism for salvation) gets conflated with nazis. It's more productive to have a dialogue with these people and understand why they are lashing out (hint: It's opium, mechanization and globalization), and maybe even address these issues... These nazis? Break them.

Folks, here's a crazy idea. Let's not argue or talk shit about people while they're suspended and cannot speak for themselves.

Were you suspended, would you like people talking about you during your suspension? If not, don't do it. I'm not trying to backseat mod here, just exercise some damn common decency, would you?

Well, they were doing that to that guy who was banned a few days ago so it's only fair in my book to have it done to them when suspended. As long as you never say anything worth suspending you over I don't think it's a concern XD.

TheIronRuler:

Saelune just likes to activate Godwin's law like it's a stand.

Can you appeal to Godwin's Law in a thread about actual, literal, real-live actual Nazis?

SolidState:

Marik2:
lol, lunatic got banned. im gonna miss his gay furry alt right shenanigans.

Without making commentary on how he got banned, I will just say that that's yet another very highly tenured and high post-count account that has been banned.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't noticed any actual new people joining in a very very long time. Say what you will of the ban, but all that's happened here is our small community has just gotten even smaller.

At this point it's just about being the last account standing.

Kwak:

TheIronRuler:

Saelune just likes to activate Godwin's law like it's a stand.

Can you appeal to Godwin's Law in a thread about actual, literal, real-live actual Nazis?

People seem to forget in their hurry to call it out, but Godwin's Law is not about just mentioning Nazis, its about comparisons to Nazis. To properly invoke Godwin's Law someone has to say something like "Oh yeah well you do this thing that Hitler did therefore you're like Hitler!"
That's why you're considered to have lost the argument if you fall into the trap; because you're not actually using logic, you're making a very basic appeal to emotion with no backing. You're resorting to mad troll logic because you've run out of actual arguments to use.
So no, you can't really bring Godwin's Law in when the topic is itself about actual Nazis, because the comparisons are right there

TheIronRuler:

Palindromemordnilap:

Kwak:

Can you appeal to Godwin's Law in a thread about actual, literal, real-live actual Nazis?

People seem to forget in their hurry to call it out, but Godwin's Law is not about just mentioning Nazis, its about comparisons to Nazis. To properly invoke Godwin's Law someone has to say something like "Oh yeah well you do this thing that Hitler did therefore you're like Hitler!"
That's why you're considered to have lost the argument if you fall into the trap; because you're not actually using logic, you're making a very basic appeal to emotion with no backing. You're resorting to mad troll logic because you've run out of actual arguments to use.
So no, you can't really bring Godwin's Law in when the topic is itself about actual Nazis, because the comparisons are right there

.
They are not the same, and bringing up Nazi Germany is a clear indication you have no arguments. Cleutus and Billy are not the same as Hermann and Hans, they are not responsible for what happened all those years ago and you can't expect them to act exactly like them. You're forfeiting an actual argument for crying out "Hitler" and treating these people are some kind of inhuman monsters.
.

Kwak:

TheIronRuler:

Saelune just likes to activate Godwin's law like it's a stand.

Can you appeal to Godwin's Law in a thread about actual, literal, real-live actual Nazis?

.
They idolize the Nazis from the past, they are not Nazis themselves, they're "new-Nazis". They are not responsible for what had happened in the past - they wish to bring it back, and do it again. Argue against them based on this - their beliefs, their actions - not based on "But look at how dialogue helped with Hitler in 193-whatever".

Doesn't that make them WORSE than the original Nazis because they now have all of the information about all of the horrific atrocities that they committed and they want to repeat it and do it themselves, not be forced into it as many of the original people involved? I see the glorification of the horrific crimes committed and the people WANTING to do it themselves as being even more evil because they have the hindsight and ability to see it for what it was. They are jealous they were not there to participate. Their actions are actually far worse now because they have been taught how horrific this was and want to be willing participants rather than being forced to do so at gunpoint. The people prior to WW2 were suffering through the great depression and were desperate and suffering far worse than any of these coddled, entitled, racist assholes we are dealing with in our time now. I think you are giving the people we are dealing with now entirely too much credit. Yes, I do believe people can change, but we also have to be realistic about who we are dealing with and their actual words and actions they are taking now. every single one of these men were taught about the atrocities of ww2 in school here. They understand what happened and want to do those things to people in this time as well and that cannot be brushed aside and their sadism excused. They do not deserve your willingness to give them the benefit of the doubt, that should be reserved for those who would not take pleasure in harming you and your family.

I also disagree that many of those who support Trump are not racists, I know many of them are, and that was the reason they supported Trump over other candidates in the Primaries. Trump represented gluttony, not one who was going to help the poor and middle class. He has never been one to help the poor and middle class and in his books prior to running for President he admittedly targeted those struggling rather than helped them as part of his business plan. Everything he has done in his life prior to running for president was against and harmful to the poor and middle class, not helping them so they have no reason to think he would help them. You would have to be some kind of gullible to believe eh was doing anything for those struggling so I have difficulty thinking that people are really that stupid. Instead, they likely valued their racism over those coming to the table with actual plans to help them, that was why they voted against their own self interest.

TheIronRuler:

Palindromemordnilap:

Kwak:

Can you appeal to Godwin's Law in a thread about actual, literal, real-live actual Nazis?

People seem to forget in their hurry to call it out, but Godwin's Law is not about just mentioning Nazis, its about comparisons to Nazis. To properly invoke Godwin's Law someone has to say something like "Oh yeah well you do this thing that Hitler did therefore you're like Hitler!"
That's why you're considered to have lost the argument if you fall into the trap; because you're not actually using logic, you're making a very basic appeal to emotion with no backing. You're resorting to mad troll logic because you've run out of actual arguments to use.
So no, you can't really bring Godwin's Law in when the topic is itself about actual Nazis, because the comparisons are right there

.
They are not the same, and bringing up Nazi Germany is a clear indication you have no arguments. Cleutus and Billy are not the same as Hermann and Hans, they are not responsible for what happened all those years ago and you can't expect them to act exactly like them. You're forfeiting an actual argument for crying out "Hitler" and treating these people are some kind of inhuman monsters.

A) I never actually labelled anyone as a Nazi. I clarified the involvement of Godwin's Law when Nazi's are involved, but nowhere did I "cry Hitler" as you put it. So your accusations are somewhat unfounded here my dude

B) If you do want to get in to specifics though, this particular topic that we are posting in is about people going around wearing Nazi armbands, throwing Nazi salutes, promoting the Nazi cause and naming themselves after the Nazis. So I'm pretty sure that, yes, we are in fact dealing with actual Nazis. Doesn't take a detective to figure that out

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here