Just another glorious day here in Off-Topic

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Saelune:

crimson5pheonix:

Elvis Starburst:

Then why didn't they just hold R&P to the same standard as everywhere else? That would've required 0 extra work and been a lot better for everyone else who want to keep politics out of their sub-forums

Because the people there would complain. And they're really good at complaining.

You know you're in a topic about complaining, right?

Wherever R&P goes, there is complaining.

crimson5pheonix:

Saelune:

crimson5pheonix:

Because the people there would complain. And they're really good at complaining.

You know you're in a topic about complaining, right?

Wherever R&P goes, there is complaining.

Pshhh.. Wherever gamers go there is complaining. Wherever people go there is complaining. Wherever you go there is complaining. :p

crimson5pheonix:

Saelune:

crimson5pheonix:

Because the people there would complain. And they're really good at complaining.

You know you're in a topic about complaining, right?

Wherever R&P goes, there is complaining.

...which is the whole point in the first place. Perhaps if there was a dedicated place for R&P, then there wouldn't be so much complaining in Off Topic.

It's kind of been the entire gist of this thread since the start?

Squilookle:

crimson5pheonix:

Saelune:
You know you're in a topic about complaining, right?

Wherever R&P goes, there is complaining.

...which is the whole point in the first place. Perhaps if there was a dedicated place for R&P, then there wouldn't be so much complaining in Off Topic.

It's kind of been the entire gist of this thread since the start?

I think we should have a sub-forum for complaining, or at least a tag in off-topic.

[Complaining]

ObsidianJones:

If I remember correctly, one of the mods for the R&P forum did not have a positive view of the place. I assume modding R&P was also seen as a not favorable thing to do. And given that they got rid of the modless WW, I guess they didn't want to keep a violate forum open without moderation support.

Elvis Starburst:

Then why didn't they just hold R&P to the same standard as everywhere else? That would've required 0 extra work and been a lot better for everyone else who want to keep politics out of their sub-forums

R&P has always been a contentious forum, both among users and among moderators. When I was moderating last year, most moderators had given up on trying to enforce rules for anything but the most extreme infractions (death threats, porn, malware linking etc.) because the idea that R&P operated on its own laxer set of rules was pretty ingrained and a lot of people there would pick a fight anytime someone got a warning. It took a lot of extra work to keep R&P to the standards of the rest of the Escapist, mostly because a rather large subset of R&Ps population actively resented any moderation that fell on people they agreed with. As another comparison there was maybe 2 or 3 people in Gaming Discussion and Off-Topic that would actively insult other users repeatedly, for the first few months of me moderating the same number was around 10 in R&P.

I like to think that R&P was a better place when I stopped being a mod, partially because I tried my best to get it actively moderated again and partially because the revival of the Escapist meant that it got both a sense of a future and that someone was actively watching again. With that being said, it was till a contentious forum and the archaic infrastructure of Escapist v1 can cause all kinds of trouble, so I wouldn't be surprised if this is a move to make it easier or even possible to acquiesce a move to a new forum infrastructure.

Elvis Starburst:

ObsidianJones:

I guess they didn't want to keep a violate forum open without moderation support.

Then why didn't they just hold R&P to the same standard as everywhere else? That would've required 0 extra work and been a lot better for everyone else who want to keep politics out of their sub-forums

Personally i always assumed that R&P was moderated exactly like everything else. I thought that the "laxer rules" thing was just a rumor mostly shared by people wo never visited the place.

But if Gethsemani says there really was less enforcement based on lacking moderator motivation instead of rules than that is probably true.
Not that i could say that i noticed harsher enforcement under Gethsemani as mod.

But then again i have only been here for three years. Completely missed the time of the really nasty controversies all the oldtimers talk about.

Lil devils x:

Pshhh.. Wherever gamers go there is complaining. Wherever people go there is complaining. Wherever you go there is complaining. :p

Wherever there's complaining, there's people complaining about the complaining. And yes, I am complaining that people are complaining about complaining, and you'd be within your rights to complain about my complaints about complainers complaining.

I just want to point out that Forums only exist to share opinions. Opinions about many things. There is not subject in life that doesn't have political ties. People choose to see them, some others don't want to be bothered. I understand that.

Gethsemani:
R&P has always been a contentious forum, both among users and among moderators. When I was moderating last year, most moderators had given up on trying to enforce rules for anything but the most extreme infractions (death threats, porn, malware linking etc.) because the idea that R&P operated on its own laxer set of rules was pretty ingrained and a lot of people there would pick a fight anytime someone got a warning. It took a lot of extra work to keep R&P to the standards of the rest of the Escapist, mostly because a rather large subset of R&Ps population actively resented any moderation that fell on people they agreed with. As another comparison there was maybe 2 or 3 people in Gaming Discussion and Off-Topic that would actively insult other users repeatedly, for the first few months of me moderating the same number was around 10 in R&P.

I like to think that R&P was a better place when I stopped being a mod, partially because I tried my best to get it actively moderated again and partially because the revival of the Escapist meant that it got both a sense of a future and that someone was actively watching again. With that being said, it was till a contentious forum and the archaic infrastructure of Escapist v1 can cause all kinds of trouble, so I wouldn't be surprised if this is a move to make it easier or even possible to acquiesce a move to a new forum infrastructure.

For the life of me, I honestly can't understand why people can't bring up opinions, ideas, and thoughts without the express need to insult one another.

Literally, I do not comprehend how someone think they are serving their opinions by actively not presenting themselves as representatives of their opinions or stances. It does nothing but make others think "... God, is that how they all are?"

While I take your point and agree with it, just for total clarity, may I ask the numbers of people who would post in R&P and people who would post in Off-topic at any given day? Was there higher traffic in R&P than Off-topic, or were they about the same?

crimson5pheonix:

Saelune:

crimson5pheonix:

Because the people there would complain. And they're really good at complaining.

You know you're in a topic about complaining, right?

Wherever R&P goes, there is complaining.

And there will be you complaining about people complaining.

I think people SHOULD complain, it actually leads to fixing things, not complaining certainly doesn't. My problem are people who complain about the idea of complaining as if they aren't themselves complaining. I believe the term is 'hypocrite'.

Gethsemani:

R&P has always been a contentious forum, both among users and among moderators. When I was moderating last year, most moderators had given up on trying to enforce rules for anything but the most extreme infractions (death threats, porn, malware linking etc.) because the idea that R&P operated on its own laxer set of rules was pretty ingrained and a lot of people there would pick a fight anytime someone got a warning. It took a lot of extra work to keep R&P to the standards of the rest of the Escapist, mostly because a rather large subset of R&Ps population actively resented any moderation that fell on people they agreed with. As another comparison there was maybe 2 or 3 people in Gaming Discussion and Off-Topic that would actively insult other users repeatedly, for the first few months of me moderating the same number was around 10 in R&P.

That just sounds like it needed a heaping tablespoon of "fucking deal with it, learn to express your opinions in a constructive and non-passive-aggresive manner. We let you into our house, you obey our rules." And if everyone wanted to be pissy about that, then in my opinion, no, they didn't need to be around posting at all and any warnings/bans would have been deserved.

If what you say is true, and I have no reason to doubt it is... I'd believe that the moderators becoming lax on the firmly stated TOS they're supposed to be enforcing means that they are an equally proportionate part of the problem as to why R&P was the disaster pit it was. I say that as someone who has no personal experience with the place though, and I can't speak for how it is on the moderator's side. But, I've learned over time that if the rules are going to be the rules, the rules need to be equal for everyone

ObsidianJones:

While I take your point and agree with it, just for total clarity, may I ask the numbers of people who would post in R&P and people who would post in Off-topic at any given day? Was there higher traffic in R&P than Off-topic, or were they about the same?

More people posted in Gaming Discussion and Off-Topic then in R&P. I am not sure about the actual numbers, but a quick guesstimate (and yours is as good as mine) makes me say that the number for R&P was maybe a quarter or a fifth of GD or OT.

Elvis Starburst:
If what you say is true, and I have no reason to doubt it is... I'd believe that the moderators becoming lax on the firmly stated TOS they're supposed to be enforcing means that they are an equally proportionate part of the problem as to why R&P was the disaster pit it was.

I wouldn't be too harsh on the moderators. The old site owners made it pretty clear back in the days (around 2015 or so, when You Know What was raging) they made it explicit that moderation would be more forgiving in R&P then in the other boards because people got so passionate about the topics discussed. When the old owners went away and The Escapist died as anything but a forum, no one was really all that interested in getting R&P back in line and the projection was that the forums would all just vanish one day anyway, so why waste the effort? That coupled with old contentions from 2014/2015, the tradition of passive-aggressive posting in R&P and a general feeling that nothing mattered since the forums would all just disappear when Defy pulled the plug all contributed to the bad mood that sometimes permeated R&P.

Hey Saelune, I don't think one of the biggest benefiters of laxer moderation alongside the usual suspects who are no longer here shouldn't mouth off about how the mods are all spiteful.

Gethsemani:

I wouldn't be too harsh on the moderators. The old site owners made it pretty clear back in the days (around 2015 or so, when You Know What was raging) they made it explicit that moderation would be more forgiving in R&P then in the other boards because people got so passionate about the topics discussed. When the old owners went away and The Escapist died as anything but a forum, no one was really all that interested in getting R&P back in line and the projection was that the forums would all just vanish one day anyway, so why waste the effort? That coupled with old contentions from 2014/2015, the tradition of passive-aggressive posting in R&P and a general feeling that nothing mattered since the forums would all just disappear when Defy pulled the plug all contributed to the bad mood that sometimes permeated R&P.

Hm... I'll concede to that much at least. But I'm still not a fan of the "If it's gonna die, who cares" sort of mentality on principle. Though I don't exactly blame anyone for it

omg saelune got suspended

im probably going to be next soon

Of all the things Saelune has accused others of being on this forum, "spiteful" is apparently the one that finally has some consequences. Don't mess with the mods I guess. At least the forum will be about 80% less toxic for a couple days

Sorry, I don't want to go into the echo-chamber that is Reddit.

Marik2:
omg saelune got suspended

im probably going to be next soon

I am next then.

Gergar12:
Sorry, I don't want to go into the echo-chamber that is Reddit.

Marik2:
omg saelune got suspended

im probably going to be next soon

I am next then.

I am Spartacus!

... wait, what are we doing?

Gergar12:
Sorry, I don't want to go into the echo-chamber that is Reddit.

Marik2:
omg saelune got suspended

im probably going to be next soon

I am next then.

My goal is to see everyone else eventually banned and me talking to myself in the void. Adding topics only I answer.

People want to talk about politics, and people also get attached to their online haunts and are unlikely to just find another one.

Obviously this was going to happen, and neither R&P regulars nor Off-Topic regulars would be as happy. Closing the subforum was an awful idea.

I always wondered if the mods were haunting the forums (not just checking on reported posts) and if they disliked me or not.

Silent Protagonist:
Of all the things Saelune has accused others of being on this forum, "spiteful" is apparently the one that finally has some consequences. Don't mess with the mods I guess. At least the forum will be about 80% less toxic for a couple days

.
Two days is the suspension time for first red card?

Silvanus:
People want to talk about politics, and people also get attached to their online haunts and are unlikely to just find another one.

Obviously this was going to happen, and neither R&P regulars nor Off-Topic regulars would be as happy. Closing the subforum was an awful idea.

On the other hand, reversing a decision is awfully embarrassing. So it will be necessary to figure out a way to make what is essentially the old R&P forum but sufficiently novel to pretend it was the plan all along or even a bold new idea.

I would have preferred had they just kept those forums separate. The problem with Saulene statement on making more off-topic discussions is that it's hard to do when a lot are focused on making politic topics/constantly replying back and forth and whatever discussions are made get shoved in the background unless it's some big news, or topic that was made way before the R&P was removed. I still try, but I come to this side of the forum less often now, because of the merge.

Seanchaidh:

Silvanus:
People want to talk about politics, and people also get attached to their online haunts and are unlikely to just find another one.

Obviously this was going to happen, and neither R&P regulars nor Off-Topic regulars would be as happy. Closing the subforum was an awful idea.

On the other hand, reversing a decision is awfully embarrassing. So it will be necessary to figure out a way to make what is essentially the old R&P forum but sufficiently novel to pretend it was the plan all along or even a bold new idea.

Admitting a mistake, is only embarrassing to small people who have fragile pride that can't take the hit. To own up to one's mistakes is respectable. Certainly moreso than the opposite.

I have a feeling whoever decided to remove R&P genuinely didn't expect people to just post political topic on the Off Topic forum. Their reaction to finding out must have been amusing.

i thought suspension was at least a week

shes going to come in and say things about the mods when she comes back from the void

Hades:
I have a feeling whoever decided to remove R&P genuinely didn't expect people to just post political topic on the Off Topic forum. Their reaction to finding out must have been amusing.

The people who decided to remove R&P are the same people who told site members to post politics in Off Topic:

https://v1.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/703.1056841-Religion-Politics-Forum-Closed-as-of-27-March-2019#24297434

No one posted about politics in Off topic until directed to do so. I am guessing they may be using the same framework some other gaming sites use that also have religion and politics merged with Off Topic as the reason for this. Some other sites just throw everything outside gaming into Off Topic like this and have done so for years and I am guessing that is what is happening here as well as they move to v2.

We are likely just spoiled by them catering to our fondness for having plate dividers so our food doesn't touch.

Marik2:

shes going to come in and say things about the mods when she comes back from the void

Something something "SEE, the suspension proves I'm RIGHT about the bias and spitefulness!" while simultaneously ignoring the fact that calling the mods spiteful, and directly singling someone out and calling them a strong reason for whatever the problem is... is a bit of a dick move to do on both accounts.

Not that it has anything to do with one's personal choice of actions that lead to said suspension or anything

I like how the minute I stop paying attention, R&P gets gutted, and people catch bans and suspensions left and right.

RIP to the homie Lunatic. RIP to the homie Saulene aka lil s aka Rage boner Brigade Commander. Gone but not forgotten(for another day I guess).

image

*shrugs*

Saelune:
image

*shrugs*

You could be a screw instead.

They also say the squeaky wheel gets the oil, so it can go both ways.

Generally speaking though- having a go at mods generally only ever ends one way. It shouldn't really come as a surprise.

So I just realised Saelune's current ban isn't the same one received in here, but an additional one straight after. This piques my curiosity- When a suspension ends, is the offender's forum health meter still in the red and easily tipped into another suspension? Or is it cleared, but a severe enough infraction can tip it straight back into suspensville again?

Squilookle:
So I just realised Saelune's current ban isn't the same one received in here, but an additional one straight after. This piques my curiosity- When a suspension ends, is the offender's forum health meter still in the red and easily tipped into another suspension? Or is it cleared, but a severe enough infraction can tip it straight back into suspensville again?

The forum health bar stays in the same place after the suspension ends, so yeah, any further infractions within six months will lead to at least another suspension, if not a permanent ban.

didnt know that ironruler requested a ban

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