[Politics] Doctor allowed Patient to Walk Outside, wrongly arrested for Stealing Medical Equipment

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A black man says he was racially profiled by white police officers while he was being treated at an Illinois hospital and went for a walk hooked up to an IV drip.

Police arrested Shaquille Dukes, 24, of misdemeanor disorderly conduct after a security guard called them, saying that Dukes was trying to steal medical equipment.

The Freeport Police Department confirmed Sunday in a statement that Dukes filed a complaint "alleging unfair and biased conduct by responding officers." The department said it has retained an outside, third-party investigator to "gather the facts, interview all parties involved, and determine whether officers conducted themselves in adherence to department policies and guidelines."

Dukes wrote on Facebook that he was on vacation in Freeport, about 100 miles west of Chicago, when he came down with double pneumonia and went to the hospital. He told CNN he was admitted to FHN Memorial Hospital for two days.

On the morning of the second day, June 9, he said he was feeling better and asked doctors if he could go for a walk. He went outside with his boyfriend and his brother, still wearing his hospital gown and pushing a steroid and antibiotic IV drip.

As they went outside, Dukes said a security guard called them over to his car and asked if they were trying to "leave the hospital and sell the IV equipment on eBay."

"I was livid, I was irate," Dukes said. "The first thing he said to me wasn't, 'What's your name? Can I help you?' but 'Are you stealing this?'" Dukes said his boyfriend began recording the encounter, as Dukes was trying to explain to the security guard that they were on a walk.

That's when the security guard called for police backup, Dukes told CNN. He said the guard told police, "I have three black males attempting to steal medical equipment from the hospital."

Police arrested all three men, charging them with misdemeanor disorderly conduct. Two of the men were also charged with misdemeanor resisting arrest, according to a Freeport police press release issued June 17.

Dukes told CNN that before his arrest, police officers took his emergency inhaler and his IV was removed, though not by a doctor. Police said in a June 18 statement that the IV was removed by FHN medical personnel.

(Source)

First off... yup, another day in America. If I wasn't so devoid of hope for this country that I'm actively filling out papers to move to Canada, I would be heartbroken even more

Now, I'm of two minds.

One, I think Dukes was wrong for saying he was 'racially profiled by white police officers'. I'm not putting any stock into their motivations (as of yet), but I'm not going to say they racially profiled him.

The Security Guard did. The Security Guard called in three black men trying to steal Hospital property. The Police were following up on a call. At this moment, was it the right call (it wasn't) isn't up for debate. But they were responding to the complaint. At that whit, their hands were tied.

Now. Moving forward to Two, there did seem to be some malice. In a post Eric Garner world, you need to take the care of those you have in custody seriously. None of them are medically trained, but they removed an IV? Something that goes into your blood vessels? Really? That seemed like a good idea?

And he had an asthma attack and they wouldn't let him have an inhaler? I just spoke about Eric Garner. Breathing is a very important thing to humans. I had a few asthma attacks when I was younger. Do you know what it feels like? Drowning. It is a frightening feeling, and all you want is relief. And they denied him that until they got to a police station. I will definitely put this squarely on police because that's cruel and unusual treatment that has no basis in the world.

I'm really done with this country. If we have any Canadian women who would like to date and marry me, I'm reasonably fit, I can cook very well, and I'll soon have a Trading Securities License in America and Canada. Take me, please.

ObsidianJones:

None of them are medically trained, but they removed an IV? Something that goes into your blood vessels?

You'd think the fact the IV was currently IVing would be a clue that he wasn't stealing it. I mean, that's going the extra mile to steal what is basically a bag on a pole.

He was black and gay? Well shit, thats two kinds of prejudice he's got stacked against him, I wonder if the security guard was against just one or both...

Palindromemordnilap:
He was black and gay? Well shit, thats two kinds of prejudice he's got stacked against him, I wonder if the security guard was against just one or both...

And he was temporarily disabled.

Did that security guard wake up in the morning and decide to find the best way to get himself fired and the hospital sued?

Baffle2:

ObsidianJones:

None of them are medically trained, but they removed an IV? Something that goes into your blood vessels?

You'd think the fact the IV was currently IVing would be a clue that he wasn't stealing it. I mean, that's going the extra mile to steal what is basically a bag on a pole.

I mean not even Cosplayers actually insert the needle. That's next level dedication.

Nielas:
Did that security guard wake up in the morning and decide to find the best way to get himself fired and the hospital sued?

Implying anything wrong will happen to the guard

If anything he just got himself a job at the local police station

So do Freeport's hospitals have a high rate of medical supplies thievery or something? Otherwise, how did the guard jump to that conclusion?

How far away from the hospital was this guy walking? Surely the police could have just inquired at the hospital and verified his story unless he was out on a hike in his gown and IV.

Drathnoxis:
How far away from the hospital was this guy walking? Surely the police could have just inquired at the hospital and verified his story unless he was out on a hike in his gown and IV.

As far as the article says he was arrested at his car, so I guess the parking lot? Which if its the size of most hospitals is either right next to the front door, or only a few hundred feet away.
Also hospital security aren't usually stationed at the front door. There's a reception desk a few feet inside, but at the door itself are the vallet drivers. Its kinda' weird to have a security station at the front door, and have guards that wouldn't go a few feet back to reception to double-check.

Silentpony:

Drathnoxis:
How far away from the hospital was this guy walking? Surely the police could have just inquired at the hospital and verified his story unless he was out on a hike in his gown and IV.

As far as the article says he was arrested at his car, so I guess the parking lot? Which if its the size of most hospitals is either right next to the front door, or only a few hundred feet away.
Also hospital security aren't usually stationed at the front door. There's a reception desk a few feet inside, but at the door itself are the vallet drivers. Its kinda' weird to have a security station at the front door, and have guards that wouldn't go a few feet back to reception to double-check.

I think you may have misread that. It read to me as the security guard called him over to the security guard's car, not the car of the man who was arrested.
OP:
The man was in the hospital for Pneumonia and hooked up to an IV at the time there is no excuse for the security guard and the officer's behavior. The officers had no way of knowing the current state of the patient and a person who is not getting enough oxygen, as was the case with this man who later passed out due to the officer's ignorant behavior, can often be confused, disoriented, and non compliant as this is expected for a person in his medical condition so a charge of " disorderly conduct" at all is asinine to begin with. A person who is not getting enough oxygen can become irritable, irrational and not even understand what you are saying to them at the time. It has even been known to trigger their fight or flight response because they may feel as though they are fighting for their life as they are suffocating.

The fact the man was a patient was blatant and undergoing medical care at the time they attempted to berate him should have made it obvious they should have offered assistance to the man if needed rather than accost him. It is extremely expected for patients to be walking around outdoors at Hospitals, in fact they are encouraged to do so as being in bed too long is damaging to one's health. Patients are expected to go for walks indoors and out, to their cars, to the cafeteria ect and cannot fathom why a security guard or an officers would treat them the way that happened here. Hell, even when you have patients who wake up extremely violent they are sedated and strapped down, not arrested. There is no excuse for them reacting that way at all. Ever.

Drathnoxis:
How far away from the hospital was this guy walking? Surely the police could have just inquired at the hospital and verified his story unless he was out on a hike in his gown and IV.

Surely the gown was the clue. Also, is this the hospital security guard?

I've heard of older people getting disoriented and lost when just stepping outside. It could happen to any patient. Why was the first thought: he must be stealing

trunkage:

Drathnoxis:
How far away from the hospital was this guy walking? Surely the police could have just inquired at the hospital and verified his story unless he was out on a hike in his gown and IV.

Surely the gown was the clue. Also, is this the hospital security guard?

I've heard of older people getting disoriented and lost when just stepping outside. It could happen to any patient. Why was the first thought: he must be stealing

Sadly that is the first thing some racist people tend to think when they see a black person whether it is in the store, walking in their own neighborhood or in the Hospital. It is seriously that screwed up.

Baffle2:

ObsidianJones:

None of them are medically trained, but they removed an IV? Something that goes into your blood vessels?

You'd think the fact the IV was currently IVing would be a clue that he wasn't stealing it. I mean, that's going the extra mile to steal what is basically a bag on a pole.

Bet they'll count it as driving under influence(those IV strollers have wheels after all).

The fact is that it is illegal to have a IV drip attached outside of a hospital in the US. Or the fact that is illegally for a hospital anywhere in the US to allow a patient to walk outside with one. Or the fact that a patient not discharge cannot leave the premise under any circumstances unless discharged agreed by a doctor is signed. Or to discharge patient with a steroid antibiotic IV drip as it's consider by law to be administer under supervision.As that drug is considered a controlled substance which cannot legally be in the position of an non-healthcare personal. This is protocol in all hospitals in the US.

I can also tell you that hospitals do place security personal in the entrance way. They place a security desks right near when you walk in the ER .Just before you run into the main reception desk or right after you enter thought the ambiance drop off. Simply because LEGAL 2,000 happen A LOT (they try to harm self or others). I also know of this hospital, it's huge and if he was in the parking lot that is one large parking lot. They also used to have a third party contracted in charge of the security cameras on the hospital grounds. Lastly this is not a very safe area of Chicago and like all hospitals people try to steal anything all the time.

Beyond this I personally want to wait for the independent investigation report to find out what their findings are.

trunkage:

Drathnoxis:
How far away from the hospital was this guy walking? Surely the police could have just inquired at the hospital and verified his story unless he was out on a hike in his gown and IV.

Surely the gown was the clue. Also, is this the hospital security guard?

I've heard of older people getting disoriented and lost when just stepping outside. It could happen to any patient. Why was the first thought: he must be stealing

First he is not an old patient and Pneumonia does not have the side effect of confusion. Pneumonia in the hospital if it's bad enough your hooked up to a machine to breathe you will not suffer confusion. If anything Pneumonia will cause temps over 105 and vomiting with shortness of breath. His condition though was not bad enough if he was give just an inhaler.

Second you cannot walk out of hospital in the US with an IV drip attached to you at all. That is both illegal and a health risk as if his IV drip dries out; air accumulates and can go into the blood stream. Air in the blood stream will lead to a very painful death as the air pocket reaches the heart in seconds. Also removing an IV drip with no experience will lead to permanent harm and infection. That is one reason of many, why you don't walk out with IV drips. Second the Steroid in the IV outside of the hospital is illegal in the possession of non healthcare personnel. He was also not discharged as clearly indicated by the hospital and thus he walked outside.

Medical equipment is also very valuable worth tens of thousands of dollars because of insurance and red tape.Security handles both legal 2000 codes (those trying to harm self and others) etc as well as property theft. Freeport Chicago on the other hand has sections where crime is high; the hospital sits in the old section of town not a very nice place. Because of that it would not be out of the scope of security to be looking for theft. Still we will have to wait for the independent investigation to go public.

RobertEHouse:

trunkage:

Drathnoxis:
How far away from the hospital was this guy walking? Surely the police could have just inquired at the hospital and verified his story unless he was out on a hike in his gown and IV.

Surely the gown was the clue. Also, is this the hospital security guard?

I've heard of older people getting disoriented and lost when just stepping outside. It could happen to any patient. Why was the first thought: he must be stealing

First he is not an old patient and Pneumonia does not have the side effect of confusion. Pneumonia in the hospital if it's bad enough your hooked up to a machine to breathe you will not suffer confusion. If anything Pneumonia will cause temps over 105 and vomiting with shortness of breath. His condition though was not bad enough if he was give just an inhaler.

I think the point was that some patients can become disoriented and confused, not that pneumonia can cause confusion. A young(er) patient could have suffered head trauma, could have neurological problems or diminished mental capacity. The apparent age of a patient is not enough to assume whether or not they are aware of where (or who) they are. And outside of highly visible diseases (mumps, measles, chicken pox, etc.) and injuries it's almost impossible to tell what a patient is suffering from just by looking at them.
Also, a high fever can effect a person's mental acuity, as can a lack of sleep or even a reaction to medications.

RobertEHouse:
The fact is that it is illegal to have a IV drip attached outside of a hospital in the US. Or the fact that is illegally for a hospital anywhere in the US to allow a patient to walk outside with one. Or the fact that a patient not discharge cannot leave the premise under any circumstances unless discharged agreed by a doctor is signed. Or to discharge patient with a steroid antibiotic IV drip as it's consider by law to be administer under supervision.As that drug is considered a controlled substance which cannot legally be in the position of an non-healthcare personal. This is protocol in all hospitals in the US.

I can also tell you that hospitals do place security personal in the entrance way. They place a security desks right near when you walk in the ER .Just before you run into the main reception desk or right after you enter thought the ambiance drop off. Simply because LEGAL 2,000 happen A LOT (they try to harm self or others). I also know of this hospital, it's huge and if he was in the parking lot that is one large parking lot. They also used to have a third party contracted in charge of the security cameras on the hospital grounds. Lastly this is not a very safe area of Chicago and like all hospitals people try to steal anything all the time.

Beyond this I personally want to wait for the independent investigation report to find out what their findings are.

Which would mean that, logically, the security guard's job is to prevent you from walking out the door with in IV in the first place. Or to turn you around and tell you your doctor shouldn't have told you you could go out. Not to just automatically call the police

RobertEHouse:

Second you cannot walk out of hospital in the US with an IV drip attached to you at all. That is both illegal and a health risk as if his IV drip dries out; air accumulates and can go into the blood stream. Air in the blood stream will lead to a very painful death as the air pocket reaches the heart in seconds. Also removing an IV drip with no experience will lead to permanent harm and infection.

I've no doubt it might be illegal to leave a hospital with an IV infusion running in the US. The rest of what you write is hogwash though. An IV drip will never truly "dry out", as there will always be some fluid left in the bag and the tube and if the pressure drops low enough in the tube blood will flow up into the tube due to the pressure difference. So walking around with an empty IV bag for a while isn't a big deal, it poses no imminent health risk. Especially not from air getting into the bloodstream, because of the fact that the IV is a sealed environment and the pressure difference between the tube and the blood stream which ensures that the tiny amount of air in the drip chamber (not enough air to kill a person) remains in the drip chamber, the administering nurse or doctor also ensures there are no air bubbles in the tube before connecting the IV (even though they'd be too small to pose a health risk, generally).

Secondly, removing an IV catheter without training is as simple as pulling a plastic catheter out of your vein. This requires no special training and you'll have to really try if you want to hurt yourself doing it, as a PVC (peripheral venous catheter) is a small plastic tube attached to a plastic infusion valve. You'll bleed, but due to the flexibility of the catheter it will never cause any harm going out. If the adhesive keeping it in place remains, you might suffer from skin irritation or friction burn if you pull really hard and fast. You might suffer an infection if you leave the wound from the PVC exposed after you've removed it, but generally speaking all it takes is to stem the bleeding and keep it covered to avoid the worst risks. Putting a band-aid on it is literally all that healthcare personnel does to prevent infection (barring special cases with high infection risks).

Source: Am a Registered Nurse. Has inserted and removed hundreds of PVCs in the last decade.

RobertEHouse:
The fact is that it is illegal to have a IV drip attached outside of a hospital in the US. Or the fact that is illegally for a hospital anywhere in the US to allow a patient to walk outside with one. Or the fact that a patient not discharge cannot leave the premise under any circumstances unless discharged agreed by a doctor is signed. Or to discharge patient with a steroid antibiotic IV drip as it's consider by law to be administer under supervision.As that drug is considered a controlled substance which cannot legally be in the position of an non-healthcare personal. This is protocol in all hospitals in the US.

I can also tell you that hospitals do place security personal in the entrance way. They place a security desks right near when you walk in the ER .Just before you run into the main reception desk or right after you enter thought the ambiance drop off. Simply because LEGAL 2,000 happen A LOT (they try to harm self or others). I also know of this hospital, it's huge and if he was in the parking lot that is one large parking lot. They also used to have a third party contracted in charge of the security cameras on the hospital grounds. Lastly this is not a very safe area of Chicago and like all hospitals people try to steal anything all the time.

Beyond this I personally want to wait for the independent investigation report to find out what their findings are.

Are you... fucking DEFENDING this?! What the fuck?

Gethsemani:

RobertEHouse:

Second you cannot walk out of hospital in the US with an IV drip attached to you at all. That is both illegal and a health risk as if his IV drip dries out; air accumulates and can go into the blood stream. Air in the blood stream will lead to a very painful death as the air pocket reaches the heart in seconds. Also removing an IV drip with no experience will lead to permanent harm and infection.

I've no doubt it might be illegal to leave a hospital with an IV infusion running in the US. The rest of what you write is hogwash though. An IV drip will never truly "dry out", as there will always be some fluid left in the bag and the tube and if the pressure drops low enough in the tube blood will flow up into the tube due to the pressure difference. So walking around with an empty IV bag for a while isn't a big deal, it poses no imminent health risk. Especially not from air getting into the bloodstream, because of the fact that the IV is a sealed environment and the pressure difference between the tube and the blood stream which ensures that the tiny amount of air in the drip chamber (not enough air to kill a person) remains in the drip chamber, the administering nurse or doctor also ensures there are no air bubbles in the tube before connecting the IV (even though they'd be too small to pose a health risk, generally).

Secondly, removing an IV catheter without training is as simple as pulling a plastic catheter out of your vein. This requires no special training and you'll have to really try if you want to hurt yourself doing it, as a PVC (peripheral venous catheter) is a small plastic tube attached to a plastic infusion valve. You'll bleed, but due to the flexibility of the catheter it will never cause any harm going out. If the adhesive keeping it in place remains, you might suffer from skin irritation or friction burn if you pull really hard and fast. You might suffer an infection if you leave the wound from the PVC exposed after you've removed it, but generally speaking all it takes is to stem the bleeding and keep it covered to avoid the worst risks. Putting a band-aid on it is literally all that healthcare personnel does to prevent infection (barring special cases with high infection risks).

Source: Am a Registered Nurse. Has inserted and removed hundreds of PVCs in the last decade.

I can't read your PVC and not think of pulling out big plastic pipes out of someone's arm.

twistedmic:

RobertEHouse:

trunkage:
Surely the gown was the clue. Also, is this the hospital security guard?

I've heard of older people getting disoriented and lost when just stepping outside. It could happen to any patient. Why was the first thought: he must be stealing

First he is not an old patient and Pneumonia does not have the side effect of confusion. Pneumonia in the hospital if it's bad enough your hooked up to a machine to breathe you will not suffer confusion. If anything Pneumonia will cause temps over 105 and vomiting with shortness of breath. His condition though was not bad enough if he was give just an inhaler.

I think the point was that some patients can become disoriented and confused, not that pneumonia can cause confusion. A young(er) patient could have suffered head trauma, could have neurological problems or diminished mental capacity. The apparent age of a patient is not enough to assume whether or not they are aware of where (or who) they are. And outside of highly visible diseases (mumps, measles, chicken pox, etc.) and injuries it's almost impossible to tell what a patient is suffering from just by looking at them.
Also, a high fever can effect a person's mental acuity, as can a lack of sleep or even a reaction to medications.

Well, I was more trying to infer that a patient being outside and needed to be coralled back into the hospital is a common occurance, as far as Ive heard. The level of theft around Chicago hospitals is not something I'm aware of and knowing that its a big carpark does complicate things. The hospital I went to recently doesn't have a car park with a big floor plan but its 8 levels so its easy to get lost.

Kwak:

RobertEHouse:
The fact is that it is illegal to have a IV drip attached outside of a hospital in the US. Or the fact that is illegally for a hospital anywhere in the US to allow a patient to walk outside with one. Or the fact that a patient not discharge cannot leave the premise under any circumstances unless discharged agreed by a doctor is signed. Or to discharge patient with a steroid antibiotic IV drip as it's consider by law to be administer under supervision.As that drug is considered a controlled substance which cannot legally be in the position of an non-healthcare personal. This is protocol in all hospitals in the US.

I can also tell you that hospitals do place security personal in the entrance way. They place a security desks right near when you walk in the ER .Just before you run into the main reception desk or right after you enter thought the ambiance drop off. Simply because LEGAL 2,000 happen A LOT (they try to harm self or others). I also know of this hospital, it's huge and if he was in the parking lot that is one large parking lot. They also used to have a third party contracted in charge of the security cameras on the hospital grounds. Lastly this is not a very safe area of Chicago and like all hospitals people try to steal anything all the time.

Beyond this I personally want to wait for the independent investigation report to find out what their findings are.

Are you... fucking DEFENDING this?! What the fuck?

I am NOT DEFENDING ANYTHING I am telling those of you that never worked in a hospital what the law is and what to expect. As well as the "health risks" walking out in public with a iv drip.Unsupervised if the IV drip was punctured in the parking lot the man could have been infected with Sepsis or another contagion.The man's life was endanger before he was arrested that was the point!.If the solution dried up which it does in UV light (sunlight) he could have been harmed by a empty IV drip.

Also Hospitals are legally required not to let patents walk out of the front door with IVs because that is against regulations' and ENDANGERS the patient . State laws also make it illegal to walk around with an IV drip in public unsupervised for any reason. So again I would like to see what the independent investigator trying to help the guy get off charges finds to help him.As right now FB and CNN interviews does not make a defense case in the court of law.

It's weird because I'd swear that I've seen people walking around outside hospitals - albeit still on their campus grounds - with their IVs in fairly often. This.......this seems fucking asinine; he goes straight to calling the cops and not calling out "Hey mate, what you doing?". Man, Bugatti would be jealous of that 0 to 100 time.

Gordon_4:
It?s weird because I?d swear that I?ve seen people walking around outside hospitals - albeit still on their campus grounds - with their IVs in fairly often. This.......this seems fucking asinine; he goes straight to calling the cops and not calling out ?Hey mate, what you doing??. Man, Bugatti would be jealous of that 0 to 100 time.

I don't know much about US hospital regulations and law, but I know that in Sweden all parts outside of the hospital, like park areas and parking lots, are also considered parts of the hospital for juridical matters. So here you could go to the parking lot to pick up something in your car or take a walk with an IV, as long as it has been cleared with medical and nursing staff.

Gordon_4:
It?s weird because I?d swear that I?ve seen people walking around outside hospitals - albeit still on their campus grounds - with their IVs in fairly often. This.......this seems fucking asinine; he goes straight to calling the cops and not calling out ?Hey mate, what you doing??. Man, Bugatti would be jealous of that 0 to 100 time.

Given that there must be people who need to be on an IV and also need to smoke (probably a lesser need, but I'm sure it feels like one - not a smoker), it seems very likely that people are going to be outside and on an IV at some point.

RobertEHouse:

I am telling those of you that never worked in a hospital what the law is and what to expect[/u].

I tried to look this up out of interest but I can't find anything online that isn't about 'IV bars', where you can be hooked up to a vitamin drip (I'd rather take it as a suppository, and that's still second to just eating the thing). Do you know which part of the US code this comes under?

RobertEHouse:

trunkage:

Drathnoxis:
How far away from the hospital was this guy walking? Surely the police could have just inquired at the hospital and verified his story unless he was out on a hike in his gown and IV.

Surely the gown was the clue. Also, is this the hospital security guard?

I've heard of older people getting disoriented and lost when just stepping outside. It could happen to any patient. Why was the first thought: he must be stealing

First he is not an old patient and Pneumonia does not have the side effect of confusion. Pneumonia in the hospital if it's bad enough your hooked up to a machine to breathe you will not suffer confusion. If anything Pneumonia will cause temps over 105 and vomiting with shortness of breath. His condition though was not bad enough if he was give just an inhaler.

Second you cannot walk out of hospital in the US with an IV drip attached to you at all. That is both illegal and a health risk as if his IV drip dries out; air accumulates and can go into the blood stream. Air in the blood stream will lead to a very painful death as the air pocket reaches the heart in seconds. Also removing an IV drip with no experience will lead to permanent harm and infection. That is one reason of many, why you don't walk out with IV drips. Second the Steroid in the IV outside of the hospital is illegal in the possession of non healthcare personnel. He was also not discharged as clearly indicated by the hospital and thus he walked outside.

Medical equipment is also very valuable worth tens of thousands of dollars because of insurance and red tape.Security handles both legal 2000 codes (those trying to harm self and others) etc as well as property theft. Freeport Chicago on the other hand has sections where crime is high; the hospital sits in the old section of town not a very nice place. Because of that it would not be out of the scope of security to be looking for theft. Still we will have to wait for the independent investigation to go public.

This is bullocks. I have worked in numerous hospitals, and am currently affiliated with 4. A patient of any age can have confusion, this is not a side effect limited to the elderly and for you to make such a statement shows that you have no clue what you are talking about here. This is not uncommon for those who have difficulty breathing at all age levels even those at the prime of their lives. The man was not discharged, he was walking around the Premises and NO it is not illegal for him to walk around. He had 2 people with him at the time, which we only require they have one person assisting them when they are walking around with their drip in case they need help they have someone there to either assist them or call for help. No, not all doors are guarded by guards at US hospitals. Usually there is one stationed in the ER, but this man was not in the ER, he had already been admitted to the hospital two days prior so he could walk out any of the side entrances of the buildings, usually those are park like areas for patients to walk around and try to get some fresh air to help them recover. That is why you will often see even wheelchair bound patients with IV's min those areas as well being pushed around. Patients are expected to use those areas. And that is what the article stated the man was doing when he was accosted by this guard. Quit trying to tell people who do work in hospitals how this works because not all hospitals have prison guards stationed at every entrance. Hell some hospitals do not even have a guard at all. Walking around on the property inside or out is not illegal with an IV drip and going outside does not mean someone was discharged and I have no idea why you would think it would. What you stated above does not apply and you are misrepresenting the actual incident. The man never left the premises, he was outside which the area surrounding the hospital is still hospital property and it is not illegal for the patients to be there with their drips. The man was not leaving, nor was he unaccompanied he was out walking around the hospital property getting some air and had been granted permission to do so by his physician.

EDIT: In addition, usually theft does not occur by people walking around hooked up to IV's. Thieves usually disassemble items and shove them in their suit case and walk out the door and it is absurd to assume that someone walking around hospital property inside or out hooked up to a drip is trying to steal their IV.

Gethsemani:

Gordon_4:
It?s weird because I?d swear that I?ve seen people walking around outside hospitals - albeit still on their campus grounds - with their IVs in fairly often. This.......this seems fucking asinine; he goes straight to calling the cops and not calling out ?Hey mate, what you doing??. Man, Bugatti would be jealous of that 0 to 100 time.

I don't know much about US hospital regulations and law, but I know that in Sweden all parts outside of the hospital, like park areas and parking lots, are also considered parts of the hospital for juridical matters. So here you could go to the parking lot to pick up something in your car or take a walk with an IV, as long as it has been cleared with medical and nursing staff.

I'm from Australia, not the U.S. I wish this damn forum gave us the option/ability to display our flag thing on the profile section next to posts lol.

RobertEHouse:

Gethsemani:

RobertEHouse:

Second you cannot walk out of hospital in the US with an IV drip attached to you at all. That is both illegal and a health risk as if his IV drip dries out; air accumulates and can go into the blood stream. Air in the blood stream will lead to a very painful death as the air pocket reaches the heart in seconds. Also removing an IV drip with no experience will lead to permanent harm and infection.

I've no doubt it might be illegal to leave a hospital with an IV infusion running in the US. The rest of what you write is hogwash though. An IV drip will never truly "dry out", as there will always be some fluid left in the bag and the tube and if the pressure drops low enough in the tube blood will flow up into the tube due to the pressure difference. So walking around with an empty IV bag for a while isn't a big deal, it poses no imminent health risk. Especially not from air getting into the bloodstream, because of the fact that the IV is a sealed environment and the pressure difference between the tube and the blood stream which ensures that the tiny amount of air in the drip chamber (not enough air to kill a person) remains in the drip chamber, the administering nurse or doctor also ensures there are no air bubbles in the tube before connecting the IV (even though they'd be too small to pose a health risk, generally).

Secondly, removing an IV catheter without training is as simple as pulling a plastic catheter out of your vein. This requires no special training and you'll have to really try if you want to hurt yourself doing it, as a PVC (peripheral venous catheter) is a small plastic tube attached to a plastic infusion valve. You'll bleed, but due to the flexibility of the catheter it will never cause any harm going out. If the adhesive keeping it in place remains, you might suffer from skin irritation or friction burn if you pull really hard and fast. You might suffer an infection if you leave the wound from the PVC exposed after you've removed it, but generally speaking all it takes is to stem the bleeding and keep it covered to avoid the worst risks. Putting a band-aid on it is literally all that healthcare personnel does to prevent infection (barring special cases with high infection risks).

Source: Am a Registered Nurse. Has inserted and removed hundreds of PVCs in the last decade.

If you were a nurse you would not have just said anything like that. You should know better about what happens when you pull out a IV fast. Infiltration of fluid and medication outside the inter-vascular space. Hematoma the leakage of blood from the vessel in the surrounding tissue. How about Phlebitis or Thrombophlebitis which inflames the veins. Also what about Air Embolis which does occur as a result of large volumes of air entering the patient. Second the IV does dry out and you should know that! IV solutions are either refrigerated or at room temps. Outside in the sun you weaken the integrity of the solution and the IV does back up. Also the guy was on a pump which is not just a simple IV drip. That pump also cost around $25,000 plus and hospitals don't like to let patients wonder around outside with them. Plus you failed to mention the possibility of sepsis infect without gloves if a patient removes a IV without care. Lastly it's very easy to puncture a IV bag and exposing it to the sun also causes it to become more receptacle towards it.

So did you go to a correspondence school? or Nurse School ?because honestly I want to know as what state has such lax standards so i don't end up getting treatment. Plus if you are willing to tell me your nursing license I can get the ball rolling of getting you removed from nursing. As you are not suppose to hand out medical advice over forums or websites ,PERIOD.

https://www.registerednursing.org/specialty/infusion-nurse/

Usually the areas surrounding the hospital are designed to be shaded and have benches and gardens for patients to relax in not sun tanning on a beach. Depending on the side of the hospital a patient's room is on, they could have more sun exposure just having the blinds open than they would receive in the shaded park areas surrounding the building. In addition, Not everyone is restricted from handing out medical advice online, we are currently in the process of increasing online medical resources, not restricting them further. While yes, you have to be mindful of what advice you administer online, as you could be sued for bad advice, Physicians and RN's are not prevented from doing so, though not any moreso than we are in person. We are actually in the process of trying to make healthcare more efficient and accessible by utilizing these resources. I actually participated in a study on this where we had to interact with patients online and discuss the benefits and limitations from doing so. Of course there are limits to the examination via this method, but with the proper tools this very well may be our future.

EDIT: Personally attacking Gethsemani does not "prove your case" it just further shows your ignorance on the subject. No, most Hospitals do not treat patients like they are kindergarteners and only allow them to have rounded scissors as to not puncture their IV drips. Of course if you are working in a mental health Hospital this is expected, but you do not get sent to a mental health hospital for Pneumonia.

" The department said it has retained an outside, third-party investigator to "gather the facts, interview all parties involved, and determine that the officers were the real victims here."

Because let's face it.

RobertEHouse:

So did you go to a correspondence school? or Nurse School ?because honestly I want to know as what state has such lax standards so i don't end up getting treatment. Plus if you are willing to tell me your nursing license I can get the ball rolling of getting you removed from nursing. As you are not suppose to hand out medical advice over forums or websites ,PERIOD.

Nobody gave out medical advice.

To be frank, it is astonishingly churlish to imply you could derail somebody's career in an online forum (as if anybody would take that seriously anyway).

That threatening nonsense, as well as the overall lack of detail or verification you've given above, does not build trust in your credentials or trustworthiness on the subject. Poor grammar doesn't help either.

===

On the off-chance that any other readers might actually take anything written here as medical advice: If you are actually wondering about this for a relevant reason, ask a medical professional (and I mean in person), don't take it from an online board.

I add this only because I know people Google things about medical topics like this and come across forums from time to time.

Lil devils x:

RobertEHouse:

trunkage:
Surely the gown was the clue. Also, is this the hospital security guard?

I've heard of older people getting disoriented and lost when just stepping outside. It could happen to any patient. Why was the first thought: he must be stealing

First he is not an old patient and Pneumonia does not have the side effect of confusion. Pneumonia in the hospital if it's bad enough your hooked up to a machine to breathe you will not suffer confusion. If anything Pneumonia will cause temps over 105 and vomiting with shortness of breath. His condition though was not bad enough if he was give just an inhaler.

Second you cannot walk out of hospital in the US with an IV drip attached to you at all. That is both illegal and a health risk as if his IV drip dries out; air accumulates and can go into the blood stream. Air in the blood stream will lead to a very painful death as the air pocket reaches the heart in seconds. Also removing an IV drip with no experience will lead to permanent harm and infection. That is one reason of many, why you don't walk out with IV drips. Second the Steroid in the IV outside of the hospital is illegal in the possession of non healthcare personnel. He was also not discharged as clearly indicated by the hospital and thus he walked outside.

Medical equipment is also very valuable worth tens of thousands of dollars because of insurance and red tape.Security handles both legal 2000 codes (those trying to harm self and others) etc as well as property theft. Freeport Chicago on the other hand has sections where crime is high; the hospital sits in the old section of town not a very nice place. Because of that it would not be out of the scope of security to be looking for theft. Still we will have to wait for the independent investigation to go public.

This is bullocks. I have worked in numerous hospitals, and am currently affiliated with 4. A patient of any age can have confusion, this is not a side affect limited to the elderly and for you to make such a statements shows that you have no clue what you are talking about here. This is not uncommon for those who have difficulty breathing at all age levels even those at the prime of their lives. The man was not discharged, he was walking around the Premises and NO it is not illegal for him to walk around. He had 2 people with him at the time, which we only require they have one person assisting them when they are walking around with their drip in case they need help they have someone there to either assist them or call for help. No, not all doors are guarded by guards at US hospitals. Usually there is one stationed in the ER, but this man was not in the ER, he had already been admitted to the hospital two days prior so he could walk out any of the side entrances of the buildings, usually those are park like areas for patients to walk around and try to get some fresh air to help them recover. That is why you will often see even wheelchair bound patients with IV's min those areas as well being pushed around. Patients are expected to use those areas. And that is what the article stated the man was doing when he was accosted by this guard. Quit trying to tell people who do work in hospitals how this works because not all hospitals have prison guards stationed at every entrance. Hell some hospitals do not have even have a guard at all. Walking around on the property inside or out is not illegal with an IVB drip and going outside does not mean someone was discharged and I have no idea why you would think it would. What you stated above does not apply and you are misrepresenting the actual incident. The man never left the premises, he was outside which the area surrounding the hospital is still hospital property band it is not illegal for the patients to be there with their drips. The man was not leaving, nor was he unaccompanied he was out walking around the hospital property getting some air and had been granted permission to do so by his physician.

EDIT: In addition, usually theft does not occur by people walking around hooked up to IV's. Thieves usually disassemble items and shove them in their suit case and walk out the door and it is absurd to assume that someone walking around hospital property inside or out hooked up to a drip is trying to steal their IV.

First Pneumonia does not cause confusion, it is the UNDERLINING accompany issues it that can cause confusion. Meaning it comes from effects of the patient's health, age, diabetes, etc. Or did you not get what I wrote about it being the UNDERLINING and not the sole issue. Second Your hospitals employing prison guards is the first I ever heard of that. We normally employ off duty officers or had a specialty security detail for securing the premise. Mainly because Prison guards are not all that qualified as they don't usually have the experience with city laws then the police. I have been in a hospital which has had no full time security but that was in a town of only 5,000 populations with three officers. The station was just next door from the main hospital annex.

A hospital that allows patients to walk out in front or near a parking lot is already got problems. Hospital administration can be legally reliable if anything happens to them outside. IF they faint, collapse or etc the hospital can be found negligent in treatment by not watching them. This leads to lawsuits and thus the reasons patients are not allowed to leave their rooms if they assigned. Ever been to a hospital built in 1970? They might have a central courtyard enclosed by a patient's wing. Well those were supposed to be for patients to relax and get fresh air. Sadly Hospital Administrations now seal these off simply because of the fear of lawsuits from patients.

Again the Man was not discharged meaning if he got hurt or harmed others outside. The hospital would be legally responsible in the eyes of the law. The notice of discharge is a signed document that makes the hospital no longer responsible for injury and to ensure proper medical charges can be applied for treatment. Lastly IV's in parts of Nevada and Texas, California are considered a no no. I am not talking about a small syringe part I am talking about the whole bag and the poll and pump system he had on him.

About theft in hospitals, I was addressing a known issue that exist in the healthcare industry as a whole. Nursing homes and Hospitals have things stolen and those things cost lots of money and are known to be on the black market. Our security teams are not just supposed to protect, but if possible prevent theft of property. Hospitals contain medication which on the street sell for thousands and other small things can sell for hundreds. The man walking away with a $25,000 IV pump system does attend to draw certain attention , as its not something you bring out of a hospital.

RobertEHouse:

So did you go to a correspondence school? or Nurse School ?because honestly I want to know as what state has such lax standards so i don't end up getting treatment. Plus if you are willing to tell me your nursing license I can get the ball rolling of getting you removed from nursing. As you are not suppose to hand out medical advice over forums or websites ,PERIOD.

https://www.registerednursing.org/specialty/infusion-nurse/

If Gethsemani isn't a nurse, he/she has been keeping up the pretense for a very long time. Even I know he/she is a nurse, and I don't know if he/she is a he/she.

I'm fairly sure Lil devils X is a doctor of some kind, and almost definitely a she.

Silvanus:

On the off-chance that any other readers might actually take anything written here as medical advice: If you are actually wondering about this for a relevant reason, ask a medical professional (and I mean in person), don't take it from an online board.

I want to pull this drip out of my arm, but I'm afraid the world will end in pillars of blood and fire. Help?

RobertEHouse:

Lil devils x:

RobertEHouse:

First he is not an old patient and Pneumonia does not have the side effect of confusion. Pneumonia in the hospital if it's bad enough your hooked up to a machine to breathe you will not suffer confusion. If anything Pneumonia will cause temps over 105 and vomiting with shortness of breath. His condition though was not bad enough if he was give just an inhaler.

Second you cannot walk out of hospital in the US with an IV drip attached to you at all. That is both illegal and a health risk as if his IV drip dries out; air accumulates and can go into the blood stream. Air in the blood stream will lead to a very painful death as the air pocket reaches the heart in seconds. Also removing an IV drip with no experience will lead to permanent harm and infection. That is one reason of many, why you don't walk out with IV drips. Second the Steroid in the IV outside of the hospital is illegal in the possession of non healthcare personnel. He was also not discharged as clearly indicated by the hospital and thus he walked outside.

Medical equipment is also very valuable worth tens of thousands of dollars because of insurance and red tape.Security handles both legal 2000 codes (those trying to harm self and others) etc as well as property theft. Freeport Chicago on the other hand has sections where crime is high; the hospital sits in the old section of town not a very nice place. Because of that it would not be out of the scope of security to be looking for theft. Still we will have to wait for the independent investigation to go public.

This is bullocks. I have worked in numerous hospitals, and am currently affiliated with 4. A patient of any age can have confusion, this is not a side affect limited to the elderly and for you to make such a statements shows that you have no clue what you are talking about here. This is not uncommon for those who have difficulty breathing at all age levels even those at the prime of their lives. The man was not discharged, he was walking around the Premises and NO it is not illegal for him to walk around. He had 2 people with him at the time, which we only require they have one person assisting them when they are walking around with their drip in case they need help they have someone there to either assist them or call for help. No, not all doors are guarded by guards at US hospitals. Usually there is one stationed in the ER, but this man was not in the ER, he had already been admitted to the hospital two days prior so he could walk out any of the side entrances of the buildings, usually those are park like areas for patients to walk around and try to get some fresh air to help them recover. That is why you will often see even wheelchair bound patients with IV's min those areas as well being pushed around. Patients are expected to use those areas. And that is what the article stated the man was doing when he was accosted by this guard. Quit trying to tell people who do work in hospitals how this works because not all hospitals have prison guards stationed at every entrance. Hell some hospitals do not have even have a guard at all. Walking around on the property inside or out is not illegal with an IVB drip and going outside does not mean someone was discharged and I have no idea why you would think it would. What you stated above does not apply and you are misrepresenting the actual incident. The man never left the premises, he was outside which the area surrounding the hospital is still hospital property band it is not illegal for the patients to be there with their drips. The man was not leaving, nor was he unaccompanied he was out walking around the hospital property getting some air and had been granted permission to do so by his physician.

EDIT: In addition, usually theft does not occur by people walking around hooked up to IV's. Thieves usually disassemble items and shove them in their suit case and walk out the door and it is absurd to assume that someone walking around hospital property inside or out hooked up to a drip is trying to steal their IV.

First Pneumonia does not cause confusion, it is the UNDERLINING accompany issues it that can cause confusion. Meaning it comes from effects of the patient?s health, age, diabetes, etc. Or did you not get what I wrote about it being the UNDERLINING and not the sole issue. Second Your hospitals employing prison guards is the first I ever heard of that. We normally employ off duty officers or had a specialty security detail for securing the premise. Mainly because Prison guards are not all that qualified as they don?t usually have the experience with city laws then the police. I have been in a hospital which has had no full time security but that was in a town of only 5,000 populations with three officers. The station was just next door from the main hospital annex.

A hospital that allows patients to walk out in front or near a parking lot is already got problems. Hospital administration can be legally reliable if anything happens to them outside. IF they faint, collapse or etc the hospital can be found negligent in treatment by not watching them. This leads to lawsuits and thus the reasons patients are not allowed to leave their rooms if they assigned. Ever been to a hospital built in 1970? They might have a central courtyard enclosed by a patient's wing. Well those were supposed to be for patients to relax and get fresh air. Sadly Hospital Administrations now seal these off simply because of the fear of lawsuits from patients.

Again the Man was not discharged meaning if he got hurt or harmed others outside. The hospital would be legally responsible in the eyes of the law. The notice of discharge is a signed document that makes the hospital no longer responsible for injury and to ensure proper medical charges can be applied for treatment. Lastly IV's in parts of Nevada and Texas, California are considered a no no. I am not talking about a small syringe part I am talking about the whole bag and the poll and pump system he had on him.

About theft in hospitals, I was addressing a known issue that exist in the healthcare industry as a whole. Nursing homes and Hospitals have things stolen and those things cost lots of money and are known to be on the black market. Our security teams are not just supposed to protect, but if possible prevent theft of property. Hospitals contain medication which on the street sell for thousands and other small things can sell for hundreds. The man walking away with a $25,000 IV pump system does attend to draw certain attention , as its not something you bring out of a hospital.

Yeah, and most hospitals worry about drug theft. Missing hardware is a concern but such devices tend to be asset tagged and registered by their serial number and a second number. As you say, a 25k IV pump system is noticeable and even if you got away with it, it?s highly specialised equipment with a narrow field of potential customers. A few bottles of OxyContin and vials of morphine or Codine - all easily concealed in a decent coat or parka - will be worth as much if not more and once obtained, easier to abscond with. And more importantly, easier to sell.

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