Is life getting too f*cking complicated for our own good as a society?

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Or more specifically as human beings?

After reading an interesting observational news bit, even as a circa-Gen X'er I can totally see where these millennials are coming from. I don't envy them at all trying to navigate this clusterfuck that previous generations have created for them. Not sure how much different things are in other countries, but I'm sure they have their own unique struggles too.

Any choice a millennial makes is going to be wrong in this age of inter-generational warfare. Nothing they do will ever be good enough until they lose both legs in the Second World War.

Kids have too much time and choice on their hands, that's true, gone are the good old days where you were sent to work in the mines as a 14 year old, or maybe went into construction, or helped your da' in his carpentry / milk delivery business.

You just grew up and simply did what you were told, all this modern individualism is making us all weak.

I don't think the problems from youths who can afford to consult a therapist accurately reflect society as a whole.

*sighs* When nubs think RL should be like linear, class based MMORPG's.

CaitSeith:
I don't think the problems from youths who can afford to consult a therapist accurately reflect society as a whole.

THIS. In addition, most do not have enough options rather than too many. This is an affluenza problem more so than a generational problem. Most people, Millennial or otherwise cannot even afford a therapist to complain to in the first place. Wealthy people have choices, everyone else does not.

bluegate:
Kids have too much time and choice on their hands, that's true, gone are the good old days where you were sent to work in the mines as a 14 year old, or maybe went into construction, or helped your da' in his carpentry / milk delivery business.

You just grew up and simply did what you were told, all this modern individualism is making us all weak.

Life really was easier when you died at 30. Who has time to have a midlife crisis at 15 when you have blacklung and the baby is sick with the fever

Lil devils x:
*sighs* When nubs think RL should be like linear, class based MMORPG's.

CaitSeith:
I don't think the problems from youths who can afford to consult a therapist accurately reflect society as a whole.

THIS. In addition, most do not have enough options rather than too many. This is an affluenza problem more so than a generational problem. Most people, Millennial or otherwise cannot even afford a therapist to complain to in the first place. Wealthy people have choices, everyone else does not.

This TWICE; you got to it before I did. I stopped reading that bullshit at "decision fatigue." Give me a damn break, the gall to even publish this nonsense. The day I'm supposed to have compassion for the affluent who are apparently clinically fatigued from having to choose from the myriad paths in life that so many people (like myself) don't even see as OPTIONS is the day I'll sprout wings, grow gills and gain the ability to eat coal and shit diamonds. This is genuinely upsetting, the idea that those with too much to choose from merit some kind of sympathy. Wait a tic; I'm starting to get it, this "decision" fatigue: should I hate these people a little bit, a LOT of bit, or ALL of it? Decisions, decisions...

Eh, I could see some truth in it. I might be reading the article wrong, but I don't see this as an affluenza thing (excepting the sample you get from talking to people in therapy). Everyone is faced with decisions that will affect their life, everyone has opportunities to mess things up (possibly badly), and often the right choice isn't obvious.

This is not a new thing, though.

Thaluikhain:
Eh, I could see some truth in it. I might be reading the article wrong, but I don't see this as an affluenza thing (excepting the sample you get from talking to people in therapy). Everyone is faced with decisions that will affect their life, everyone has opportunities to mess things up (possibly badly), and often the right choice isn't obvious.

This is not a new thing, though.

Agreed, both there's some truth in it and it's nothing new; "decision fatigue" is a nonsensical way of saying "stress." I personally feel far less empathy for those who can afford therapy to talk about their stress, and I'm not a fan that they get a fancy clinical term to describe it. Is someone living in a one bedroom, low income apartment who's not sure where his next meal might be coming from simply be suffering from "poverty fatigue?"

Xprimentyl:
Is someone living in a one bedroom, low income apartment who?s not sure where his next meal might be coming from simply be suffering from ?poverty fatigue??

Though I get where you're coming from, poverty fatigue is surely a thing? The distinction, I suppose, between living in poverty (poverty) and thinking you'll always be living in poverty, with no way out and no real hope of getting out (poverty fatigue).

Baffle2:

Xprimentyl:
Is someone living in a one bedroom, low income apartment who?s not sure where his next meal might be coming from simply be suffering from ?poverty fatigue??

Though I get where you're coming from, poverty fatigue is surely a thing? The distinction, I suppose, between living in poverty (poverty) and thinking you'll always be living in poverty, with no way out and no real hope of getting out (poverty fatigue).

These quacks don't' need any more buzz words. "Poverty fatigue" is five syllables; "stress" is only one syllable and the same damn thing.

Ya' hear that, millennials? You're STRESSED, just like the rest of us. Not our fault you got in line later than the rest of us; you don't' get to show up late to the party and start renaming the shit we've all already been dealing with just to get special pity. Pour a drink, sit down and shut up; it'll all be over soon, sweethearts.

We've completely cut ourselves off mentally and physically from the world that grows us, in pursuit of abstract systems we're all collectively forced to follow, while the waste, suffering and destruction those systems generate, that we try to keep out of sight and mind, have built to the point we must either acknowledge and change or ignore and destroy the world which supports us and other life.
And we continue to choose to elect people who just increase the speed of the train over the cliff, because we have an uncontrollable urge for death because we believe there's another better world beyond this one.
So, yes.

Kwak:
We've completely cut ourselves off mentally and physically from the world that grows us, in pursuit of abstract systems we're all collectively forced to follow, while the waste, suffering and destruction those systems generate, that we try to keep out of sight and mind, have built to the point we must either acknowledge and change or ignore and destroy the world which supports us and other life.
And we continue to choose to elect people who just increase the speed of the train over the cliff, because we have an uncontrollable urge for death because we believe there's another better world beyond this one.
So, yes.

I'd say thinking there is a better world beyond this one is the opposite of a complicated life; because it reduces life to just a test of endurance.

Xprimentyl:
These quacks don?t? need any more buzz words. ?Poverty fatigue? is five syllables; ?stress? is only one syllable and the same damn thing.

Ya? hear that, millennials? You?re STRESSED, just like the rest of us. Not our fault you got in line later than the rest of us; you don?t? get to show up late to the party and start renaming the shit we?ve all already been dealing with just to get special pity. Pour a drink, sit down and shut up; it?ll all be over soon, sweethearts.

Not accurate though. I'm stressed because I have too much work and not enough time, but I don't have poverty fatigue because I'm quite a long way from poverty. And stress about poverty is just not the same as stress about having too much work (I can see a way out).

Not sure what the situation is in the US (I'm in the UK), but millennials have it so much worse that the previous generations, and they really are dealing with more than we had to. They're stuck in a need-to-have-it-all environment (that they didn't create) combined with a fuck-all-chance-of-getting-anything environment (that they didn't create) while people tell them they're feckless and lazy because they don't having it all. Eh, I sympathise.

I need to see if someone uploaded that scene from The Good Place where Michael compares the afterlife score of a man buying flowers for his grandmother in the 1700s to the score of a man buying flowers for his grandmother in the 2010s. (The 1700s man got a +50 score for making his grandmother happy, the 2010s man got a -500 score because he bought flowers on his phone, which was made by child slave labor, that had to be shipped in a polluting van, with the money going to the flower company CEO who cheated on his wife with his secretary.)

Then realizes that the interconnected global nature of current society makes the ramifications of any action unknowable, to the point that it's literally impossible to be a good person based on the criteria the fictional afterlife judges

Eh, I'll take "look at all these options!" over "You'll be a pig farmer, just like your father and your father's father and his father before him" thanks

You know, my reply to the old platitude that socialism is incompatible with human nature is the following: there's so much weird, abstract, convoluted horseshit that people simply accept despite having no grounding in material reality that a socialist economy wouldn't be anywhere near the weirdest thing a society has adapted to. Daily life is full of frightening absurdities and alienating abstractions. While having "too many choices" is in many ways a privilege, the problem these people are facing is one less privileged people are facing as well, just in a different way. Think about it. You finish school. You look for a job. You realize you have no idea what you're actually good at, what you'd enjoy doing and if you're even capable of learning a specific occupation. But all around you there's a society saying "Find a way to get food on the table, because we sure as hell aren't gonna take care of it." You're lost, your afraid, you have no idea what to do. And suddenly every choice that's open to you seems like a trap that might very well lead to a life, or at least a very long period, of suffering.

And that's what it's like, being in your early twenties. A time when most people would do well to work on themselves, in my experience. People say that millenials are immature but that's because they've spent most of their lifes as adults in a state of crushing uncertainty which, I think, actively stifles personal growth. What helps us grow is challenge, not existential dread. The generation growing up no has every reason not to believe in a stable future, neither for themselves, nor for the world at large.

What else is there but to long for a simpler life? Sure you can treat the millenial love for low brow pop culture; video games, super hero movies, cartoons and so on, as symptoms of arrested development but for many of them childhood was the only point in their lifes when they had no reason to be afraid of the near future.

Maybe Pol Pot had the right idea. Maybe we'd all be better off living in primitive communes, chopping wood and ploughing fields until we die of a cold in our early 30s. I'm joking, of course. I think all the wonderful technology we have could help us live a simpler and happier life. But instead it's making us feel even more alienated. It's miserable, that's what it is.

Bah, Millenials! They just need to do what us generation Xers did. Pump yourselves full drugs to the point where you don't care about anything else. Didn't do us any harm!

Sometimes I miss the pleasant naivety of the past before I realised everytime I buy a computer or a pair of shoes I just probably helped to exploit some poor child labourer or something on the other side of the world.

I thought most of us were millennials. How many people are older than 40 on here?

trunkage:
I thought most of us were millennials. How many people are older than 40 on here?

I'm 38, but I generally think of millennials as being in their mid to late 20s. People of my age that I know don't typically have the same issues that apparently plague millennials in relation to things like housing.

I think Millennials tend to compare themselves to too wide an audience. Most GenXers I know (and there are exceptions) use our family and friends as the yardstick by which we measure our lives. Millennials (and the more recent iGeneration, I guess) use their family, their friends and pretty much the whole of social media as their yardstick. As a consequence they are casting their nets impossibly wide, constantly trying to compare their perfectly normal, perfectly acceptable and entirely blameless lives against the few rare exceptional individuals who rise to prominence on social media. It's essentially a form of culture shock - trying to take in and live up to the whole of the Internet and just ending up swamped by the sheer dauntlessness of such an impossible task as a result.

Xprimentyl:

Baffle2:

Xprimentyl:
Is someone living in a one bedroom, low income apartment who?s not sure where his next meal might be coming from simply be suffering from ?poverty fatigue??

Though I get where you're coming from, poverty fatigue is surely a thing? The distinction, I suppose, between living in poverty (poverty) and thinking you'll always be living in poverty, with no way out and no real hope of getting out (poverty fatigue).

These quacks don?t? need any more buzz words. ?Poverty fatigue? is five syllables; ?stress? is only one syllable and the same damn thing.

Ya? hear that, millennials? You?re STRESSED, just like the rest of us. Not our fault you got in line later than the rest of us; you don?t? get to show up late to the party and start renaming the shit we?ve all already been dealing with just to get special pity. Pour a drink, sit down and shut up; it?ll all be over soon, sweethearts.

Except there is a difference. My mother raised her two sons (and for the most part her ex's two daughters from his first marriage) practically alone. She paid her mortgage and she gave us a fairly decent life. We were poor, but we never lived in poverty. I am far more qualified and experienced than my mother was at my age. I have a job that pays me better than she had and yet I have to live with my girlfriend's parents because if I didn't every month I'd be wondering if I could even pay my rent. At least in Ireland the country was largely built through social housing and social services that helped raise it from being a war torn third world shithole. But now the generations who got those handouts have taken them entirely for granted and have decided that young people just aren't working hard enough and we have some cheek to expect affordable housing and wages that pay our bills (when once again on average we're better qualified and work more than they did).That's where poverty fatigue comes in. My mother was never afraid of losing everything. Even when she was living paycheck to paycheck. Millennials are currently wondering if they'll ever afford to own a home and raise a family.

The world is an indifferent and uncaring place and millenials probably have set their expectations too high; raised on helicopter parenting with their overly sheltered formative years and adolescence brainwashed by social media and the fable that 'you can be anything'. When expectation meets reality the result is disappointment. But well, you can always blame the boomers I guess.

Zykon TheLich:
Bah, Millenials! They just need to do what us generation Xers did. Pump yourselves full drugs to the point where you don't care about anything else. Didn't do us any harm!

Most of 'em are on drugs, just none of the fun ones.

Hell, between r/entitledparents/Idontworkherelady, and constant threats from the political right wing, I don't even want to go outside anymore, let alone worry about how complicated it is.

trunkage:
I thought most of us were millennials. How many people are older than 40 on here?

Here.

Baffle2:

trunkage:
I thought most of us were millennials. How many people are older than 40 on here?

I'm 38, but I generally think of millennials as being in their mid to late 20s. People of my age that I know don't typically have the same issues that apparently plague millennials in relation to things like housing.

Defining generations is always going to be vague with really wavy borders, but I believe the rough bracket for millennials being born is 1985 to 1995. So mid to late 20s isn't far off but someone in the early to mid 30s would also technically count. Its why just trying to lump everyone in as 'millennials' is dumb especially if you're trying to blame them for things

The theory of generations suggests that each successive "generation" experiences a dialectical reaction to the generation and cultural norms that held the most influence in society when they were young, on the one hand absorbing some of their values and on the other reacting against their perceived excesses. I think that's the only sense the term "millennial" is useful, it isn't just people born in a certain year, its people whose dominant influences were the same and came from the same place. It also doesn't remotely represent the majority of people born in a certain year, it's extremely weighted towards the middle class for example (because the middle class tend to be culturally hegemonic). It also tends to revolve around youth stereoptypes and doesn't reflect how generations evolve as they age, generation X is still defined by 80s and 90s social stereotypes about punk, grunge and yuppie culture, but many Xers are in their 50s now and there's little sociological interest in how the social stereotype has changed during that time.

In short, treat the whole thing as an interesting ideal type which can teach us a bit about shared formative experiences. For example, the stereotype about millennials struggling financially and not having housing is clearly a reflection of the fact that millennial were entering the job market or early in their careers when the 2007 financial crisis happened. The stereotype about all millennials working in media or creative professions reflects the fact that millennial were the first young adults to enter the workforce with some exposure to the internet and new media, and the stereotype about millennials being particularly concerned with social issues comes from the fact that millennials directly experienced the "turning point" of perception of those social issues.

But I think it's important to remember that milennials will (and already are) going through the same transformation as every previous generation. They will stop being young outsiders reacting against someone else's cultural and economic dominance, and they will become the culturally and economically dominant force in society, and I worry that when that happens a lot of the idealism of milennials will turn out to be as hollow as that of previous generations.

Gordon_4:

Zykon TheLich:
Bah, Millenials! They just need to do what us generation Xers did. Pump yourselves full drugs to the point where you don't care about anything else. Didn't do us any harm!

Most of ?em are on drugs, just none of the fun ones.

Bunch of po faced humourless fucks. What's wrong with dying of a crack and heroin overdose at 25? It was good enough for us and it should be good enough for them. Worthless ingrates.

Zykon TheLich:

Bunch of po faced humourless fucks. What's wrong with dying of a crack and heroin overdose at 25? It was good enough for us and it should be good enough for them. Worthless ingrates.

My understanding is that young folks try to get high on life now. Jokes on them, it's shit.

Zykon TheLich:

Gordon_4:

Zykon TheLich:
Bah, Millenials! They just need to do what us generation Xers did. Pump yourselves full drugs to the point where you don't care about anything else. Didn't do us any harm!

Most of ?em are on drugs, just none of the fun ones.

Bunch of po faced humourless fucks. What's wrong with dying of a crack and heroin overdose at 25? It was good enough for us and it should be good enough for them. Worthless ingrates.

Gotta take out a loan to overdose on heroin these days

Baffle2:

Zykon TheLich:

Bunch of po faced humourless fucks. What's wrong with dying of a crack and heroin overdose at 25? It was good enough for us and it should be good enough for them. Worthless ingrates.

My understanding is that young folks try to get high on life now. Jokes on them, it's shit.

Touche! This one cracked me up xD

altnameJag:

Zykon TheLich:
Bunch of po faced humourless fucks. What's wrong with dying of a crack and heroin overdose at 25? It was good enough for us and it should be good enough for them. Worthless ingrates.

Gotta take out a loan to overdose on heroin these days

See, now that's a another problem with millenials. All this social media, no one goes out and socialises properly anymore, no one immerses themselves in the culture, in making contacts. That's how you end up getting the better deals. Of course you're going to have to take out a loan if you're buying off some shady fuck you just bumped into hanging around on a street corner.

trunkage:
I thought most of us were millennials. How many people are older than 40 on here?

I'm extremely emotionally immature, so it works out.

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