Ooooh dear, a black actress is playing Live Action Ariel in the Little Mermaid movie.

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Worgen:
But how will racist pedophiles jack-off to her if shes black? Because I think shes supposed to be like 14-16 or something.

You think that'll prevent them from jacking off? Naive! I'm willing to be a lot of hatespunk has already been spilled.

Iirc, pretty much all the Disney princesses are underage, with Snow White the youngest at 14. I think Pocahontas is an exception. Probably got aged up because the real life one was 12.

I'm looking forward to this movie mainly because I want to see how they do the whole under water look.

As for the girl's skin colour, I couldn't care less. We all still have the original cartoon around, no reason why there can't be a re-imagining of it with a different colored person as Ariel.

warmachine:
I wanna know how a species that lives in the sea evolved to have melanin tinted skin.

Hans Christiam Anderson got it right. She'd have green skin

All these white Ariels is just Cultural Appropriation

Dreiko:

I'm more concerned with the fact that they seemingly gave the role to a 19 year old with no prior films in her resume. Who knows, maybe she'll be the next big star and is really talented. I'm apprehensive but keeping an open mind.

Not really sure they could have gotten away from that. The Little Mermaid is kinda like Romeo and Juliet in that the story is driven by the idealistic stupidity of youth. They're stories where the characters get so swept up in their infatuation that they throw everything away for a love they haven't even been on a proper date with. That becomes increasingly unlikely as the age of the characters increases, necessitating that the actors can pass for youths. It doesn't really surprise me that such an actor would be just starting to make a name for herself.

warmachine:
I wanna know how a species that lives in the sea evolved to have melanin tinted skin.

The Magical Kind.

As in these creatures are based on magic and to try to define them with actual science is pointless.

I hate Disney live action adaptions. It feels like a lazy cash in on our childhood. "Hey, you were a kid when this came out, now spend more money for yourself and your kids so we can possibly have at least 2 people in your family aboard this cash cow".

I see nothing wrong with casting Miss Bailey in the role. Atlantica is a made up place. You had no problem with Jamaican Crabs before?

This is clearly something you shouldn't do. I'll add it to the list. The meme furnace must remain ablaze.

ObsidianJones:

warmachine:
I wanna know how a species that lives in the sea evolved to have melanin tinted skin.

The Magical Kind.

As in these creatures are based on magic and to try to define them with actual science is pointless.

I hate Disney live action adaptions. It feels like a lazy cash in on our childhood. "Hey, you were a kid when this came out, now spend more money for yourself and your kids so we can possibly have at least 2 people in your family aboard this cash cow".

I see nothing wrong with casting Miss Bailey in the role. Atlantica is a made up place. You had no problem with Jamaican Crabs before?

See now I actually look forward to their live action movies because I can finally get my S.O to watch them since he refuses to watch cartoons. I also really enjoyed the live action Snow White and Sleeping Beauty (Maleficent) so if they do this one as well, I will be happy.

I'm going to reserve judgement until if/when I ever watch the movie, but race or gender swaps in established works p*ss me off at the best of times. No, I don't hate diversity. No, I don't suffer a crippling existential panic when I see people of different skin colours depicted on screen. But - I think this is diversity done poorly. Yes, Western media has been historically white dominated (because... well, duh) but diversity should be additive in nature. Give us new characters, telling their own stories in their own settings. Pocahontas, Mulan, Moana, Tiana (Princess and the Frog) - that's doing it right. Taking an established and actually pretty popular character and changing some fundamental characteristic to please group X at the expense of group Y is the worst way to achieve diversity I can imagine - it's tokenistic (if the character can work equally well as any race, why change it?), it's sure to upset fans (go on, call them all angry racists, that'll help!), and it sets back the idea that diversity isn't a zero-sum game.

ObsidianJones:
Atlantica is a made up place. You had no problem with Jamaican Crabs before?

Wakanda is a made up place. But we both know there would be rioting in the streets if a hypothetical future reboot cast a white actress as Lupita Nyongo's character.

Batou667:
if the character can work equally well as any race, why change it?

If the character can work equally well as any race, why keep it the same?

They might have simply chosen the person who had the best audition. Should they put that aside to ensure that it stays as a white person?

Batou667:
I'm going to reserve judgement until if/when I ever watch the movie, but race or gender swaps in established works p*ss me off at the best of times. No, I don't hate diversity. No, I don't suffer a crippling existential panic when I see people of different skin colours depicted on screen. But - I think this is diversity done poorly. Yes, Western media has been historically white dominated (because... well, duh) but diversity should be additive in nature. Give us new characters, telling their own stories in their own settings. Pocahontas, Mulan, Moana, Tiana (Princess and the Frog) - that's doing it right. Taking an established and actually pretty popular character and changing some fundamental characteristic to please group X at the expense of group Y is the worst way to achieve diversity I can imagine - it's tokenistic (if the character can work equally well as any race, why change it?), it's sure to upset fans (go on, call them all angry racists, that'll help!), and it sets back the idea that diversity isn't a zero-sum game.

ObsidianJones:
Atlantica is a made up place. You had no problem with Jamaican Crabs before?

Wakanda is a made up place. But we both know there would be rioting in the streets if a hypothetical future reboot cast a white actress as Lupita Nyongo's character.

I don't see that they chose her for the sake of " diversity" though, but rather for her talents. When you watch and listen to her, it becomes obvious why she was chosen for the role. They do not even have to be considering diversity at all to decide she was the best person for the role. How dark or light your tan is should not be a qualifier and really should not be "the determining factor" when she more than fits the criteria for the role. Chances are, as stated earlier, she likely sang better than the other's auditioning and they decided she was exactly what they were looking for. If you are the best person for the job, your tan should not be what prevents you from getting it.

It isn't Ariel's hair, eye or skin color that makes Ariel ( besides they use wigs and contacts anyways), it is the way she carries herself, her voice, her charisma, her energy, her manner and I think Halle fits perfectly into that role. Ariel does not have some racial history or past that would factor in to her tan or culture being a factor in her character more so than her personality. Her talents and the way Halle carries herself is why she was chosen.

Silvanus:

If the character can work equally well as any race, why keep it the same?

Simple: fidelity to the source material. Keeping the fanbase happy. Maintaining brand recognition of an IP that took time and money to create. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

They might have simply chosen the person who had the best audition. Should they put that aside to ensure that it stays as a white person?

Be still my rolling eyes. Are you saying a middle aged man could have snuck past security and ran onto stage, belted out the best Part of Your World the producers had ever heard, and they would have looked at each other and nodded in unison "Yep, we've found our Ariel. The rest of you girls, thanks for coming"?

A casting as important as a Disney lead is emphatically NOT down to chance.

Batou667:

Simple: fidelity to the source material. Keeping the fanbase happy. Maintaining brand recognition of an IP that took time and money to create. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Fidelity to the source material went out the window with the first Little Mermaid film, which bears little resemblance to the Anderson story. Why d'you think it is people get angry about some changes, but not others?

Batou667:

Be still my rolling eyes. Are you saying a middle aged man could have snuck past security and ran onto stage, belted out the best Part of Your World the producers had ever heard, and they would have looked at each other and nodded in unison "Yep, we've found our Ariel. The rest of you girls, thanks for coming"?

A casting as important as a Disney lead is emphatically NOT down to chance.

Ridiculous comparison. Obviously there are certain characteristics which actually matter to the character. Ethnicity is not one of them.

Batou667:

Silvanus:

If the character can work equally well as any race, why keep it the same?

Simple: fidelity to the source material. Keeping the fanbase happy. Maintaining brand recognition of an IP that took time and money to create. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

They might have simply chosen the person who had the best audition. Should they put that aside to ensure that it stays as a white person?

Be still my rolling eyes. Are you saying a middle aged man could have snuck past security and ran onto stage, belted out the best Part of Your World the producers had ever heard, and they would have looked at each other and nodded in unison "Yep, we've found our Ariel. The rest of you girls, thanks for coming"?

A casting as important as a Disney lead is emphatically NOT down to chance.

A middle aged woman could not have gotten the role either, that does not suddenly mean that how dark your tan is should override all other factors. Teenage girl, singing level of siren, carries themselves and acts like a Disney princess, has the correct mannerisms for the role. Yes, she has it all more than covered.

They should not ignore her talents and go with someone with less talent simply because they have a lighter tan.

Batou667:
Taking an established and actually pretty popular character and changing some fundamental characteristic to please group X at the expense of group Y is the worst way to achieve diversity I can imagine

In what way has anything happened at group Y's expense?

Asita:

Dreiko:

I'm more concerned with the fact that they seemingly gave the role to a 19 year old with no prior films in her resume. Who knows, maybe she'll be the next big star and is really talented. I'm apprehensive but keeping an open mind.

Not really sure they could have gotten away from that. The Little Mermaid is kinda like Romeo and Juliet in that the story is driven by the idealistic stupidity of youth. They're stories where the characters get so swept up in their infatuation that they throw everything away for a love they haven't even been on a proper date with. That becomes increasingly unlikely as the age of the characters increases, necessitating that the actors can pass for youths. It doesn't really surprise me that such an actor would be just starting to make a name for herself.

This still is the same Hollywood that casts 30somethings as HS students regularly, right?

Something tells me they could have handled this in some way.

There are times where the ethnicity of a character matters, and times when it really doesn't.

Considering mermaids aren't real I think it's totally fine to make Ariel black.

If Disney suddenly decided to make Mulan, or Belle, or Esmeralda, black, I'd have a bigger problem with it.

Batou667:
Wakanda is a made up place. But we both know there would be rioting in the streets if a hypothetical future reboot cast a white actress as Lupita Nyongo's character.

A made up place in Africa with the surrounding people being Africans.

Wakanda was not made to be a mythical haven for White People Lost in Africa who discovered the element and thrived.

If they made an Adaption to the work of Wakanda doing that? That's what an adaption is.

Like all of Disney works, they are adaptions of the source material. Read how the Little Mermaid actually played out. Pinocchio is all kind of shades of fucked up. Beauty and the Beast was less with death and killing of Villagers.

If they adapted Wakanda with a re-imaging that they are so found of, yeah, people will get butt hurt. But it's a re-imagining. I can easily see that a white baby was lost and she turned grew up to be Nakia. Hollywood loves that sort of thing.

Lil devils x:
See now I actually look forward to their live action movies because I can finally get my S.O to watch them since he refuses to watch cartoons. I also really enjoyed the live action Snow White and Sleeping Beauty (Maleficent) so if they do this one as well, I will be happy.

Out of the massive respect and admiration I have for you, I'm refusing to comment on your S.O.'s 'choices'. I will constantly refer to your S.O. as "Oh... Him".

Although I'll admit to being curious about Mulan. I never saw the cartoon. But that woman was whupping ass in the trailer. That's all I need most of the time.

Dirty Hipsters:
There are times where the ethnicity of a character matters, and times when it really doesn't.

Considering mermaids aren't real I think it's totally fine to make Ariel black.

If Disney suddenly decided to make Mulan, or Belle, or Esmeralda, black, I'd have a bigger problem with it.

The mermaids at least in Disney's take feel reminiscent of ancient Greek mythology (King Triton wielding a trident is a direct reference to Poseidon) but we Greeks have people from north Africa and the middle east in our neighborhood and a history of conflict and breeding and conquest so she doesn't look wrong for the part. I went to grade school with a kid about as tan and curly-haired as this actress who was just a regular Greek kid (Nick, cool dude) so even if accidentally so it's not completely inaccurate.

Batou667:
Give us new characters, telling their own stories in their own settings. Pocahontas, Mulan, Moana, Tiana (Princess and the Frog) - that's doing it right. Taking an established and actually pretty popular character and changing some fundamental characteristic to please group X at the expense of group Y is the worst way to achieve diversity I can imagine - it's tokenistic (if the character can work equally well as any race, why change it?), it's sure to upset fans (go on, call them all angry racists, that'll help!), and it sets back the idea that diversity isn't a zero-sum game.

Thing is, Ariel's skin colour isn't a "fundamental characteristic."

In principle, I actually agree that adding new characters is generally preferable to altering old ones, but a lot of the time it's a moot point.

Baffle2:

Batou667:
Taking an established and actually pretty popular character and changing some fundamental characteristic to please group X at the expense of group Y is the worst way to achieve diversity I can imagine

In what way has anything happened at group Y's expense?

Because there are people who, for some reason, can't comprehend the idea of being able to relate or understand or like a character that doesn't have the same skin color as them. The "expense" in this case is all the white people who can't possibly like the character because she's black. Or they feel that their "white" character is being stolen from them by this black actress or something. I dunno, these people make no fucking sense at the best of times. They just wander about the internet, being passionately aggrieved at the stupidest shit.

Pretty unrealistic having a woman in the role anyway. A man should play the lead character and the movie renamed The Little Merman. I'd watch that. I don't think I've ever seen a single disney cartoon movie.

They probably just hired the person with the best audition.

It's not like her skin color matters to the story like it would with Tiana

Baffle2:

Samtemdo8:

I never heard of her so she is new to me.

Neither had all the people who are congratulating Halle Berry, who is 52, on getting the role.

Look when I first saw the announcement I was confused too. Like damn Halle Berry still looking like a whole three course meal but still having her play a teenager is a bit much. There names are too damn similar.

Batou667:
Wakanda is a made up place. But we both know there would be rioting in the streets if a hypothetical future reboot cast a white actress as Lupita Nyongo's character.

You will note that there is a greatly disproportionate lack of black superheroes or Disney Princesses. If that wasn't the case, people would have much less problem with a black character being turned white.

altnameJag:
They probably just hired the person with the best audition.

It's not like her skin color matters to the story like it would with Tiana

It could also be that Disney wants to use this as a vehicle to propel this actress into stardom. I don't know if this Halle Bailey has much history with Disney, but she does look like one of the Disney Channel faces. But then I also don't know how famous she already is in America.

undeadsuitor:

warmachine:
I wanna know how a species that lives in the sea evolved to have melanin tinted skin.

I wanna know how they speak normally under water

I wanna know how they keep their hair looking great despite living in salt water

Lil devils x:
It isn't Ariel's hair, eye or skin color that makes Ariel ( besides they use wigs and contacts anyways), it is the way she carries herself, her voice, her charisma, her energy, her manner and I think Halle fits perfectly into that role. Ariel does not have some racial history or past that would factor in to her tan or culture being a factor in her character more so than her personality.

That's a touchingly optimistic explanation (some would say naive). I'm sure she's a fantastic actress and will do a great job in the role, but the fact remains somebody (well, a whole boardroom of somebodies) made the decision to cast a black girl in the role of Ariel. Not a black person. Not a girl of colour. This was a thought-out, planned decision that, like all Disney releases, has more to do with marketing than artistic vision.

I'm not saying it couldn't possibly work, and please believe me when I say I'm really not that opposed to the idea of black mermaids. They're fictional creatures, as has been pointed out by everyone. But it's a change that sets off a chain of dominoes within the established story. If Ariel is black, then naturally Triton is black too. Will Prince Eric be black, or are Disney finally ready to "go there" in terms of depicting an interracial love story? I actually kind of hope they have the cajones to do that, not simply black-wash the entire movie because it would be easier for audiences to swallow.

Batou667:
I'm not saying it couldn't possibly work, and please believe me when I say I'm really not that opposed to the idea of black mermaids. They're fictional creatures, as has been pointed out by everyone. But it's a change that sets off a chain of dominoes within the established story. If Ariel is black, then naturally Triton is black too. Will Prince Eric be black, or are Disney finally ready to "go there" in terms of depicting an interracial love story? I actually kind of hope they have the cajones to do that, not simply black-wash the entire movie because it would be easier for audiences to swallow.

I mean, mermaids were a folk tale from people sailing around the Caribbean, a setting which certainly fits with the film's musical stylings, so honestly having the film be multicoloured as all hell would be great

Batou667:

Lil devils x:
It isn't Ariel's hair, eye or skin color that makes Ariel ( besides they use wigs and contacts anyways), it is the way she carries herself, her voice, her charisma, her energy, her manner and I think Halle fits perfectly into that role. Ariel does not have some racial history or past that would factor in to her tan or culture being a factor in her character more so than her personality.

That's a touchingly optimistic explanation (some would say naive). I'm sure she's a fantastic actress and will do a great job in the role, but the fact remains somebody (well, a whole boardroom of somebodies) made the decision to cast a black girl in the role of Ariel. Not a black person. Not a girl of colour. This was a thought-out, planned decision that, like all Disney releases, has more to do with marketing than artistic vision.

I'm not saying it couldn't possibly work, and please believe me when I say I'm really not that opposed to the idea of black mermaids. They're fictional creatures, as has been pointed out by everyone. But it's a change that sets off a chain of dominoes within the established story. If Ariel is black, then naturally Triton is black too. Will Prince Eric be black, or are Disney finally ready to "go there" in terms of depicting an interracial love story? I actually kind of hope they have the cajones to do that, not simply black-wash the entire movie because it would be easier for audiences to swallow.

Ariel could be of mixed parentage - not much hay is made of Ariel's mother and indeed she was largely unmentioned until either the second or third sequel to The Little Mermaid. Indeed Triton could still be played by a white actor but his late wife could be black. It is mentioned somewhere that Ariel is the image of her mother; so that'd make sense.

I say both A) who gives a shit specifically because only loud, cretinous, Internet outrage peddlers really care and B) who gives a shit more broadly because all these live action remakes are cynical, soulless cash-ins that prey on nostalgia anyway.

Batou667:

Lil devils x:
It isn't Ariel's hair, eye or skin color that makes Ariel ( besides they use wigs and contacts anyways), it is the way she carries herself, her voice, her charisma, her energy, her manner and I think Halle fits perfectly into that role. Ariel does not have some racial history or past that would factor in to her tan or culture being a factor in her character more so than her personality.

That's a touchingly optimistic explanation (some would say naive). I'm sure she's a fantastic actress and will do a great job in the role, but the fact remains somebody (well, a whole boardroom of somebodies) made the decision to cast a black girl in the role of Ariel. Not a black person. Not a girl of colour. This was a thought-out, planned decision that, like all Disney releases, has more to do with marketing than artistic vision.

I'm not saying it couldn't possibly work, and please believe me when I say I'm really not that opposed to the idea of black mermaids. They're fictional creatures, as has been pointed out by everyone. But it's a change that sets off a chain of dominoes within the established story. If Ariel is black, then naturally Triton is black too. Will Prince Eric be black, or are Disney finally ready to "go there" in terms of depicting an interracial love story? I actually kind of hope they have the cajones to do that, not simply black-wash the entire movie because it would be easier for audiences to swallow.

You honestly do not know how they went about making this specific decision and are just taking a guess about how this came to be at this point. Ariel being black does not mean they have to cast a black Triton, but Gordon already beat me to that. Halle walking in and being the best person for the role during auditions ultimately could have been their reason for casting her as she has proven herself to be an amazing singer and extremely talented. They did not specify ethnicity for their auditions. They actually held open auditions for the role, not just make offers to specific actresses. Sending the approval confirmation "upstairs" for finalization could have been an afterthought and not as preplanned out as you suggest. I don't think they specifically sought out have a black woman as Ariel, it just turned out that A black woman would make the best Ariel after weighing the actual performers they had available for the role.

It is sad though that people assume that her race was the reason she was given the role rather than her overwhelming talent. It is a insulting to her to assume that was the primary reason here rather than a factor she was able to overcome due to her ability.

Lil devils x:

Batou667:

Lil devils x:
It isn't Ariel's hair, eye or skin color that makes Ariel ( besides they use wigs and contacts anyways), it is the way she carries herself, her voice, her charisma, her energy, her manner and I think Halle fits perfectly into that role. Ariel does not have some racial history or past that would factor in to her tan or culture being a factor in her character more so than her personality.

That's a touchingly optimistic explanation (some would say naive). I'm sure she's a fantastic actress and will do a great job in the role, but the fact remains somebody (well, a whole boardroom of somebodies) made the decision to cast a black girl in the role of Ariel. Not a black person. Not a girl of colour. This was a thought-out, planned decision that, like all Disney releases, has more to do with marketing than artistic vision.

I'm not saying it couldn't possibly work, and please believe me when I say I'm really not that opposed to the idea of black mermaids. They're fictional creatures, as has been pointed out by everyone. But it's a change that sets off a chain of dominoes within the established story. If Ariel is black, then naturally Triton is black too. Will Prince Eric be black, or are Disney finally ready to "go there" in terms of depicting an interracial love story? I actually kind of hope they have the cajones to do that, not simply black-wash the entire movie because it would be easier for audiences to swallow.

You honestly do not know how they went about making this specific decision and are just taking a guess about how this came to be at this point. Ariel being black does not mean they have to cast a black Triton, but Gordon already beat me to that. Halle walking in and being the best person for the role during auditions ultimately could have been their reason for casting her as she has proven herself to be an amazing singer and extremely talented. They did not specific ethnicity for their auditions. They actually held open auditions for the role, not just make offers to specific actresses. Sending the approval confirmation " upstairs" for finalization could have been an afterthought and not as preplanned out as you suggest. I don't think they specifically sought out have a black woman as Ariel, it just turned out that A black woman would make the best Ariel after weighing the actual performers they had available for the role.

It is sad though that people assume that her race was the reason she was given the role rather than her overwhelming talent. It is a insulting to her to assume that was the primary reason here rather than a factor she was able to overcome due to her ability.

This literally happens with every job like this.

What's even worse is when they dont realise that picking a person because they are white and not talent is just as bad

Chewster:
I say both A) who gives a shit specifically because only loud, cretinous, Internet outrage peddlers really care and B) who gives a shit more broadly because all these live action remakes are cynical, soulless cash-ins that prey on nostalgia anyway.

This.

From her photo, she does have fantastic hair and a sort of aquatic mermaidy aesthetic. I'd have picked her for that hair alone really. Not even jealous.

trunkage:

Lil devils x:

Batou667:

That's a touchingly optimistic explanation (some would say naive). I'm sure she's a fantastic actress and will do a great job in the role, but the fact remains somebody (well, a whole boardroom of somebodies) made the decision to cast a black girl in the role of Ariel. Not a black person. Not a girl of colour. This was a thought-out, planned decision that, like all Disney releases, has more to do with marketing than artistic vision.

I'm not saying it couldn't possibly work, and please believe me when I say I'm really not that opposed to the idea of black mermaids. They're fictional creatures, as has been pointed out by everyone. But it's a change that sets off a chain of dominoes within the established story. If Ariel is black, then naturally Triton is black too. Will Prince Eric be black, or are Disney finally ready to "go there" in terms of depicting an interracial love story? I actually kind of hope they have the cajones to do that, not simply black-wash the entire movie because it would be easier for audiences to swallow.

You honestly do not know how they went about making this specific decision and are just taking a guess about how this came to be at this point. Ariel being black does not mean they have to cast a black Triton, but Gordon already beat me to that. Halle walking in and being the best person for the role during auditions ultimately could have been their reason for casting her as she has proven herself to be an amazing singer and extremely talented. They did not specific ethnicity for their auditions. They actually held open auditions for the role, not just make offers to specific actresses. Sending the approval confirmation " upstairs" for finalization could have been an afterthought and not as preplanned out as you suggest. I don't think they specifically sought out have a black woman as Ariel, it just turned out that A black woman would make the best Ariel after weighing the actual performers they had available for the role.

It is sad though that people assume that her race was the reason she was given the role rather than her overwhelming talent. It is a insulting to her to assume that was the primary reason here rather than a factor she was able to overcome due to her ability.

This literally happens with every job like this.

What's even worse is when they dont realise that picking a person because they are white and not talent is just as bad

I was discussing this on voice chat and I actually had someone tell me that they should have Halle be a " voice actor" for a white girl so they wouldn't need a white girl who could sing. Seriously. Even worse, people are fine with " Color changing Ariel dolls" that changed color in hot/ cold water, but forbid a human a few shades darker than the cartoon play her. This entire debacle is absurd.

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