Do you feel comfortable having always listening devices in your home?

Maybe I am just paranoid. I unplug my cam from my desktop when not using it, have my camera covered on my tablet with electrical tape and refused to buy the always on Kinect when it came out. I can't imagine having a device like Alexa in my home without feeling like I am under constant surveillance. We have people intercepting our cell calls and texts as it is, hacking our baby monitors, why would anyone think that wouldn't be happening to every other device we bring in to our homes? Sure some people may not be bothered by the idea of someone watching them sit in their undies on the couch or listening in on their intimate conversations but to me the whole idea that they could be creeps me out to the point that I don't want any device in my home capable of such. But then again, I am also paranoid of such that I go through the trouble to remove the batteries from things or put them into boxes just be sure they can't.

How do you feel about always listening devices in your home or on your person? For me, at work that would be illegal due to confidentiality requirements, at home it is just too creepy for me to take chances. Things like Alexa seem unimaginable to actually use to me tbh.

Nope. I will never get one of those. I didn't even feel comfortable with a Kinect.

Technology advances faster than the law, and the law is reactive not proactive. 2001 is becoming a modern horror movie.

It isn't paranoia, it's a healthy measure of distrust.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/jul/11/google-home-assistant-listen-recordings-users-privacy
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/apr/11/amazon-staff-listen-to-customers-alexa-recordings-report-says

We can't put our faith into large corporations with access to so much of our daily lives and the vast profit made out of personal data being sold on to numerous questionable means. I avoid using or sharing so much due to this. It is sad that the reality of the magical technology science fiction predicted for us is unwilling to let us use it without signing our privacy away. I imagine if hover cars were to be produced into the mainstream, it wouldn't be without a mandatory internet connection that tracks and records your every move.

Nah, not a fan of them. The tech isn't there for them to be perfect and I dislike being spyed upon for fun and profit.

Lil devils x:
Maybe I am just paranoid. I unplug my cam from my desktop when not using it, have my camera covered on my tablet with electrical tape and refused to buy the always on Kinect when it came out. I can't imagine having a device like Alexa in my home without feeling like I am under constant surveillance. We have people intercepting our cell calls and texts as it is, hacking our baby monitors, why would anyone think that wouldn't be happening to every other device we bring in to our homes? Sure some people may not be bothered by the idea of someone watching them sit in their undies on the couch or listening in on their intimate conversations but to me the whole idea that they could be creeps me out to the point that I don't want any device in my home capable of such. But then again, I am also paranoid of such that I go through the trouble to remove the batteries from things or put them into boxes just be sure they can't.

How do you feel about always listening devices in your home or on your person? For me, at work that would be illegal due to confidentiality requirements, at home it is just too creepy for me to take chances. Things like Alexa seem unimaginable to actually use to me tbh.

You're not wrong, and I think alexa and google home are pointless to have if you have a smartphone to look everything up.

the inbuilt webcam on my computer is probably watching me, but since i don't masturbate, all it can really film is some guy sitting in front of a screen occasionally drinking excessive ammounts of diet coke. The NSA agent watching me is probably bored to tears

I don't want them to know what I think about this.

A couple of years ago, samsung tvs were spying and listening on people. People should just cover their electronics and unplug them.

Marik2:
A couple of years ago, samsung tvs were spying and listening on people. People should just cover their electronics and unplug them.

Put everything in a sound proof box.
https://soundproofcentral.com/soundproof-cardboard-box/

Baffle2:
I don't want them to know what I think about this.

XD!

Not even close and I unplug/disable anything that might have the chance to stare at me or listen to my crazed rantings. It becomes a bit of an issue with smartphones, however...

I would never SAY that I was uncomfortable with always listening devices in my home, especially around any device that might be listening.
Seriously though, I don't fully trust always listening devices nor do I fully trust anything close to AI. I've seen enough sci-fi to know AI or any cybernetic/artificial lifeforms never end well.

I avoid such devices. Way too high a risk of abuse.

If they looked like Kara from Detroit Become Human then I might be OK with them ( Yup, I can be that shallow ), as it stands now, I have no need for such devices.

Never! Every functionality that isn't absolutely necessary is turned off or disabled where possible. Mostly to spite those trying to profit off my worthless existence data, but also to conceal my illegal behaviours and dubious topics of conversation. My phone keeps trying to activate the google assistant on average about twice a day without any prompting, and it gets promptly beaten back down like a relentlessly nosey whack-a-mole.

Who knew that fearing technology was the thing we'd all agree on?

Nope. I don't cover my camera or microphone, but I do avoid things that like monitoring me.

Definitely not. They are of dubious usefulness as it is. I can get up and flip a light switch myself, I don't need to spend $300 for Google to save me the 2 seconds of effort and also sell all my conversations to advertisers.

About half a year ago, I won an Amazon Echo Dot in an office raffle.

I gave it back.

Yeah I don't care. They only want to know what I buy for marketing research they don't give a shit about my deepest darkest secrets. It's not scary to me if they want to find out I like big Macs over KFC

CyanCat47:
the inbuilt webcam on my computer is probably watching me, but since i don't masturbate, all it can really film is some guy sitting in front of a screen occasionally drinking excessive ammounts of diet coke. The NSA agent watching me is probably bored to tears

I do and I am usually naked when using my laptop. The person watching me is either extremely nauseous all the time or maybe even slightly turned on.

Anyway, I don't have or want one of these listening devices in my home. The fact that I can just look at something on Amazon and then get adverts for that product for about two weeks afterwards, it doesn't fill me full of hope for using one of those Amazon devices.

It's gonna sound bad, but I've stopped caring. Equifax's breach last year and all the times Google and Facebook have gone to court for information related issues, I just can't bring myself to care. The government, at least the U.S. one, will do nothing to fix it. Just a slap on the wrist for the companies involved. Going through extra steps just would give me some satisfaction they may have had to work harder to get my info and it ain't satisfying enough to justify the time.

Fieldy409:
Yeah I don't care. They only want to know what I buy for marketing research they don't give a shit about my deepest darkest secrets. It's not scary to me if they want to find out I like big Macs over KFC

I am more worried about stalkers hacking in to devices than their market research. I have had to deal with some pretty scary stalkers as it is and it can be terrifying tbh. Giving them even more access to means to watch your every move just make it that much worse. If someone really wants to target you, they will find any and all means possible to do so.

EDIT: Then again, exactly who do they have working for these people that view the video/audio itself? After hearing about security guards wanking to footage of women in changing rooms, I'm not so sure I would even trust those doing the market research itself either not to abuse their position. Creepy people tend to creep.

I'm apathetic on the subject. The data-fication of all aspects of our lives and its further commodification is merely a byproduct of living in a market society during the information revolution. It is an evolution in our lifestyles that future generations won't think twice about, much like we don't think about driving on highways, or shopping at supermarkets, or the proliferation of central AC, or using hand calculators, or texting with just numpads instead of a keyboard.

That said, I don't use many things that such data can be taken off of. Don't have a use for those assistant things. I don't even like using the ones on your phone. I don't have a webcam, and my tablet is in a case when I'm not using it. I don't want a bunch of internet of things appliances, even if I wasn't living a student lifestyle and could afford them; I don't feel the need to contribute to the computational power of botnets. Just about the only things people can use to spy on me are the speakers plugged into my PC. Folks are welcome to hear me say nothing but the occasional curse at home.

Lil devils x:

EDIT: Then again, exactly who do they have working for these people that view the video/audio itself? After hearing about security guards wanking to footage of women in changing rooms, I'm not so sure I would even trust those doing the market research itself either not to abuse their position. Creepy people tend to creep.

It's doubtful that you've got people trawling the vast reams of spy data by hand, as it were. It takes one person 8 hours to watch 8 hours of video from one person, after all; you'd need to hire half the country to spy on the other half.

It's far more likely you have rudimentary AI assistants trawling through video and audio looking for repeated or target keywords, and generating database entries on hits, adding metadata such as geospatial location of incidence, time, demographic data, etc. All being overseen by relatively few human operators who set the AI to run and catalog the results for marketing to go through later.

We have the technology for it; I have a friend in the comp sci program who developed a machine learning algorithm to automatically read scanned writing just as a senior project.

Those overseers can always abuse their position and observe the video/audio themselves. But I highly doubt its something they'd do without a personal motive; its too much work to bother with otherwise.

SupahEwok:
I'm apathetic on the subject. The data-fication of all aspects of our lives and its further commodification is merely a byproduct of living in a market society during the information revolution. It is an evolution in our lifestyles that future generations won't think twice about, much like we don't think about driving on highways, or shopping at supermarkets, or the proliferation of central AC, or using hand calculators, or texting with just numpads instead of a keyboard.

That said, I don't use many things that such data can be taken off of. Don't have a use for those assistant things. I don't even like using the ones on your phone. I don't have a webcam, and my tablet is in a case when I'm not using it. I don't want a bunch of internet of things appliances, even if I wasn't living a student lifestyle and could afford them; I don't feel the need to contribute to the computational power of botnets. Just about the only things people can use to spy on me are the speakers plugged into my PC. Folks are welcome to hear me say nothing but the occasional curse at home.

Lil devils x:

EDIT: Then again, exactly who do they have working for these people that view the video/audio itself? After hearing about security guards wanking to footage of women in changing rooms, I'm not so sure I would even trust those doing the market research itself either not to abuse their position. Creepy people tend to creep.

It's doubtful that you've got people trawling the vast reams of spy data by hand, as it were. It takes one person 8 hours to watch 8 hours of video from one person, after all; you'd need to hire half the country to spy on the other half.

It's far more likely you have rudimentary AI assistants trawling through video and audio looking for repeated or target keywords, and generating database entries on hits, adding metadata such as geospatial location of incidence, time, demographic data, etc. All being overseen by relatively few human operators who set the AI to run and catalog the results for marketing to go through later.

We have the technology for it; I have a friend in the comp sci program who developed a machine learning algorithm to automatically read scanned writing just as a senior project.

Those overseers can always abuse their position and observe the video/audio themselves. But I highly doubt its something they'd do without a personal motive; its too much work to bother with otherwise.

Like I said though creepy people tend to creep. Their personal motive is often they are just creepy to begin with. What is really preventing someone else from downloading the data from the servers that store the data though? If they do not have people actively keeping their servers secure, more often than not they are not going to be secure, but that is an expense not many people want to have to incur. I remember a while back that people being able to do that is why that group of lawyers were suing facebook because they were successfully able to breach their servers.

SupahEwok:
I'm apathetic on the subject. The data-fication of all aspects of our lives and its further commodification is merely a byproduct of living in a market society during the information revolution. It is an evolution in our lifestyles that future generations won't think twice about, much like we don't think about driving on highways, or shopping at supermarkets, or the proliferation of central AC, or using hand calculators, or texting with just numpads instead of a keyboard.

That said, I don't use many things that such data can be taken off of. Don't have a use for those assistant things. I don't even like using the ones on your phone. I don't have a webcam, and my tablet is in a case when I'm not using it. I don't want a bunch of internet of things appliances, even if I wasn't living a student lifestyle and could afford them; I don't feel the need to contribute to the computational power of botnets. Just about the only things people can use to spy on me are the speakers plugged into my PC. Folks are welcome to hear me say nothing but the occasional curse at home.

Lil devils x:

EDIT: Then again, exactly who do they have working for these people that view the video/audio itself? After hearing about security guards wanking to footage of women in changing rooms, I'm not so sure I would even trust those doing the market research itself either not to abuse their position. Creepy people tend to creep.

It's doubtful that you've got people trawling the vast reams of spy data by hand, as it were. It takes one person 8 hours to watch 8 hours of video from one person, after all; you'd need to hire half the country to spy on the other half.

It's far more likely you have rudimentary AI assistants trawling through video and audio looking for repeated or target keywords, and generating database entries on hits, adding metadata such as geospatial location of incidence, time, demographic data, etc. All being overseen by relatively few human operators who set the AI to run and catalog the results for marketing to go through later.

We have the technology for it; I have a friend in the comp sci program who developed a machine learning algorithm to automatically read scanned writing just as a senior project.

Those overseers can always abuse their position and observe the video/audio themselves. But I highly doubt its something they'd do without a personal motive; its too much work to bother with otherwise.

The technology is inevitable. What would assuage my fears is if we had a reliable government and law system that instead of dragging its feel on progression and otherwise preferred to support the greedy and evil who will abuse this technology and data, so that it could adequately and quickly enough create and enforce laws for the benefit of the common people to protect us from those who would abuse us with this technology.

Like, there are no laws at all governing the fair use of the DNA gathered by things like 23 And Me, and that's a problem. Instead of waiting for it to be a problem, we should prevent the problem. Too many laws wait for something to go bad before it is fixed, and even then it usually does not.

Saelune:
The technology is inevitable. What would assuage my fears is if we had a reliable government and law system that instead of dragging its feel on progression and otherwise preferred to support the greedy and evil who will abuse this technology and data, so that it could adequately and quickly enough create and enforce laws for the benefit of the common people to protect us from those who would abuse us with this technology.

Sadly I don't think you'll ever get something like that in the US -- it's just overwhelmingly pro-business; I understand Germany is pretty good on this sort of thing.

Baffle2:

Saelune:
The technology is inevitable. What would assuage my fears is if we had a reliable government and law system that instead of dragging its feel on progression and otherwise preferred to support the greedy and evil who will abuse this technology and data, so that it could adequately and quickly enough create and enforce laws for the benefit of the common people to protect us from those who would abuse us with this technology.

Sadly I don't think you'll ever get something like that in the US -- it's just overwhelmingly pro-business; I understand Germany is pretty good on this sort of thing.

Ironic that NOW I would be ok with Germany conquering the US.

Lil devils x:
Like I said though creepy people tend to creep. Their personal motive is often they are just creepy to begin with. What is really preventing someone else from downloading the data from the servers that store the data though? If they do not have people actively keeping their servers secure, more often than not they are not going to be secure, but that is an expense not many people want to have to incur. I remember a while back that people being able to do that is why that group of lawyers were suing facebook because they were successfully able to breach their servers.

It will depend. Some companies will be proactive and have strict data-handling standards in place that will act against malefic actors abusing their position. For their own protection, if nothing else; a company that has a stalker in its employ that is using gathered data to spy on targets will be liable for suing when that stalker is caught. Many, however, will not. It is a historical trend that companies in general will not accept safety, liability, and consumer protection as necessary costs without government enforcement.

Ultimately, however, even extreme regulation and the highest personal standards ultimately only discourage bad actors; there is no true complete protection for non-physical, omni-accessible objects such as data, at least at this time. So far as personal fears go, that is just something that has to be accepted on some level. One can only expect to minimize their danger, not eliminate it, and expectations set accordingly. Minimizing danger, of course, includes petitioning the government to get off its ass and act for the peoples' protection.

Saelune:
The technology is inevitable. What would assuage my fears is if we had a reliable government and law system that instead of dragging its feel on progression and otherwise preferred to support the greedy and evil who will abuse this technology and data, so that it could adequately and quickly enough create and enforce laws for the benefit of the common people to protect us from those who would abuse us with this technology.

Like, there are no laws at all governing the fair use of the DNA gathered by things like 23 And Me, and that's a problem. Instead of waiting for it to be a problem, we should prevent the problem. Too many laws wait for something to go bad before it is fixed, and even then it usually does not.

One of the weaknesses of democracy is that it favors being reactionary. It depends on human nature in aggregate, rather than a stronger, smaller identity. And what is human nature, in general, is to act on problems that an individual personally recognizes, and to prioritize physical problems over abstract problems.

So, in a democracy, firstly, a majority of people have to recognize a problem in order for the problem to be acted on. Then second, a particular problem must be prioritized highly to be acted upon before others. Data privacy has issues on both fronts; although most people recognize that they'd rather not have a bunch of strangers snooping over their lives unnoticed, that's just the thing: the vast majority of it is unnoticed. Therefore, it doesn't register as a problem that needs to be acted on. Sure, plenty of people have had problems: stolen identities, harassment online. But most people just have a notification in their email to change their password every once in a while when somebody manages to hack a website. That's not enough to motivate people to adopt the problem as a political cause. The second issue is that even for those who recognize it as a problem, data privacy is abstract. Hunger, shelter, clean water, the state of infrastructure, healthcare, even money and violence, have physical, immediate dimensions to them. It is survival instinct to have an hierarchy of needs, and physical problems understandably take priority.

This is largely why most governments do not tend to be proactive. Baffle there mentioned Germany, but there's really no country in the world trying to create, say, an OSHA for data privacy, which is what is needed. I have my doubts that such measures will be passed any time soon; the first world is undergoing the greatest period of political instability since the last great wars, and such periods generally aren't when you see massive overhauls of industrial regulation, no matter how much they are needed. Won't ever happen until folks get enough other folks to recognize the problem and the desire to act on it, so complaints and spreading awareness aren't futile endeavors. Just something that needs to be recognized as being in for the long haul.

SupahEwok:

Lil devils x:
Like I said though creepy people tend to creep. Their personal motive is often they are just creepy to begin with. What is really preventing someone else from downloading the data from the servers that store the data though? If they do not have people actively keeping their servers secure, more often than not they are not going to be secure, but that is an expense not many people want to have to incur. I remember a while back that people being able to do that is why that group of lawyers were suing facebook because they were successfully able to breach their servers.

It will depend. Some companies will be proactive and have strict data-handling standards in place that will act against malefic actors abusing their position. For their own protection, if nothing else; a company that has a stalker in its employ that is using gathered data to spy on targets will be liable for suing when that stalker is caught. Many, however, will not. It is a historical trend that companies in general will not accept safety, liability, and consumer protection as necessary costs without government enforcement.

Ultimately, however, even extreme regulation and the highest personal standards ultimately only discourage bad actors; there is no true complete protection for non-physical, omni-accessible objects such as data, at least at this time. So far as personal fears go, that is just something that has to be accepted on some level. One can only expect to minimize their danger, not eliminate it, and expectations set accordingly. Minimizing danger, of course, includes petitioning the government to get off its ass and act for the peoples' protection.

Saelune:
The technology is inevitable. What would assuage my fears is if we had a reliable government and law system that instead of dragging its feel on progression and otherwise preferred to support the greedy and evil who will abuse this technology and data, so that it could adequately and quickly enough create and enforce laws for the benefit of the common people to protect us from those who would abuse us with this technology.

Like, there are no laws at all governing the fair use of the DNA gathered by things like 23 And Me, and that's a problem. Instead of waiting for it to be a problem, we should prevent the problem. Too many laws wait for something to go bad before it is fixed, and even then it usually does not.

One of the weaknesses of democracy is that it favors being reactionary. It depends on human nature in aggregate, rather than a stronger, smaller identity. And what is human nature, in general, is to act on problems that an individual personally recognizes, and to prioritize physical problems over abstract problems.

So, in a democracy, firstly, a majority of people have to recognize a problem in order for the problem to be acted on. Then second, a particular problem must be prioritized highly to be acted upon before others. Data privacy has issues on both fronts; although most people recognize that they'd rather not have a bunch of strangers snooping over their lives unnoticed, that's just the thing: the vast majority of it is unnoticed. Therefore, it doesn't register as a problem that needs to be acted on. Sure, plenty of people have had problems: stolen identities, harassment online. But most people just have a notification in their email to change their password every once in a while when somebody manages to hack a website. That's not enough to motivate people to adopt the problem as a political cause. The second issue is that even for those who recognize it as a problem, data privacy is abstract. Hunger, shelter, clean water, the state of infrastructure, healthcare, even money and violence, have physical, immediate dimensions to them. It is survival instinct to have an hierarchy of needs, and physical problems understandably take priority.

This is largely why most governments do not tend to be proactive. Baffle there mentioned Germany, but there's really no country in the world trying to create, say, an OSHA for data privacy, which is what is needed. I have my doubts that such measures will be passed any time soon; the first world is undergoing the greatest period of political instability since the last great wars, and such periods generally aren't when you see massive overhauls of industrial regulation, no matter how much they are needed. Won't ever happen until folks get enough other folks to recognize the problem and the desire to act on it, so complaints and spreading awareness aren't futile endeavors. Just something that needs to be recognized as being in for the long haul.

We don't know that. We don't have any examples. Oh, the US? No, the US is not a democracy, it is a Corporatocracy. And Corporations do not have it in their interests to let the people protect themselves.

Saelune:
We don't know that. We don't have any examples. Oh, the US? No, the US is not a democracy, it is a Corporatocracy. And Corporations do not have it in their interests to let the people protect themselves.

Corporations leveraging special interests to unduly influence democracies is another weakness of democracy. Really, the problem is more generally stated that any group with resources can influence democracy more than groups with fewer resources. And its nothing new. Ancient Athens is often the poster child of an ideal democratic state where every citizen had an equal say in the structure of civilization, but in reality it was dominated by a few rich clans that competed for influence throughout the generations.

In our market society, power goes to those able to make their voices heard the loudest through various means, and to special agreements with representatives which for the purposes of this conversation we'll just simplify to buying votes. Both are functions of money, and successful corporations geared towards the accumulation of money tend to have the most of it. The only ways out of it are an end to heirarchies based on the management of resources (which has been fundamental to agricultural societies since the beginning of the agricultural revolution thousands of years ago), or an end to democracy.

I'm not really knocking democratic methods of governance. It's preferable to a lot of other things. It's important to recognize its weaknesses when advocating for change, however.

Lil devils x:

Fieldy409:
Yeah I don't care. They only want to know what I buy for marketing research they don't give a shit about my deepest darkest secrets. It's not scary to me if they want to find out I like big Macs over KFC

I am more worried about stalkers hacking in to devices than their market research. I have had to deal with some pretty scary stalkers as it is and it can be terrifying tbh. Giving them even more access to means to watch your every move just make it that much worse. If someone really wants to target you, they will find any and all means possible to do so.

EDIT: Then again, exactly who do they have working for these people that view the video/audio itself? After hearing about security guards wanking to footage of women in changing rooms, I'm not so sure I would even trust those doing the market research itself either not to abuse their position. Creepy people tend to creep.

Yeah I mean I'm a hairy old man not a woman so I get that I don't have to fear stalkers as much. Or worry about people fapping to me on secret cameras or something, heck i'd probably just be flattered if they did lol.

I feel like if I were famous, like a youtuber or a celebrity or politcian or something, if there were a lot of people who wanted to find me then it'd be different but right now I feel like I'm just not important enough to dig up dirt on and at best an algorithm will be the only thing that ever spies on me.

I also refuse to have social media. The only thing I use is youtube and this place.

 

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