[politics] Neo Nazi's trying to sell Air to Air missle on WhatsApp?!

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stroopwafel:

Small arms, maybe, espescially after a period of disorder(like in the Balkans). But a French air-to-air missile definitely doesn't go unaccounted for b/c of some lack of oversight or corruption. Most definitely this ended up in the wrong hands b/c of proxy conflict where state actors need to hide some plausible deniability.

From a Western military, much less likely. But I can totally believe people can half inch a sizeable missile from many of the world's armed forces.

The 'Ndrangheta, Camorra, and Sicilian Mafia are all significant players in Italian politics, to the point of owning Prime Ministers. All those cities are northern Italy, which is 'Ndrangheta. They were probably middle men to the Neo-Nazis, or at least involved in some way, even up to leaking or making up that WhatsApp stuff to get them caught if the Neo-Nazis had circumvented the 'Ndrangheta when obtaining the missile.

Thaluikhain:
Not really. Sure, they can stick rocket pods on things, but you need the radar system to go with the missile, or there's no point.

As an aside, people have been doing those (Libyan) kinds of things for ages, during the Falklands the Argentinians set up a rocket pod on a child's slide in a playground, Tony Stein in WW2 got a Medal of Honor for fighting he did with a machine gun he'd taken from a wrecked plane and modified.

Hell, the LTTE managed to build their own air force out of ultra-light aircraft and commercially-available prop monoplanes and passenger helicopters.

Yes, they were seriously dropping grenades from ultra-light aircraft. Among their greatest achievements is disrupting the 2007 Cricket World Cup broadcast by bombing fuel storage sites outside the city of Colombo.

Thaluikhain:

Not really. Sure, they can stick rocket pods on things, but you need the radar system to go with the missile, or there's no point.

As an aside, people have been doing those (Libyan) kinds of things for ages, during the Falklands the Argentinians set up a rocket pod on a child's slide in a playground, Tony Stein in WW2 got a Medal of Honor for fighting he did with a machine gun he'd taken from a wrecked plane and modified.

In retrospect, that's not the real issue.

I think focusing on the fact it was specifically an air-to-air missile, something that needs a specific jet or weapons platform, is distracting from the fact that it was something so physically large.

An unusually large weapon was moved from country to country unnoticed or via bribery, incompetence, or specific intent.
That's the real problem here. That's what disturbs me.

.

I think Obsidian Jones said it best:

ObsidianJones:

Palindromemordnilap:
Its a strange dichotomy that these people were simultaneously canny enough to get their hands on ordnance like this, but also dumb enough to try and sell it over WhatsApp. I feel there are more secure places to sell your illegal missiles dudes

Which is the legitimate problem.

You can't sneak into a military site with falsified documents, manufacture any kind of tally list that will fool people long enough to know that a missile should be moved off-site or there always has been one less to begin with, sneak the thing off of a base... and then be this stupid... it doesn't add up.

At best, the base they got it from is so woefully staffed that we're lucky that the people who did steal from them are as stupid as the base staff.

At worst... they have sympathizers in that military's rank who think so much for their cause that they are willing to risk whatever punishment their military will do to them in order to give such a substantial weapon to their true Front Line.

Now we get to play the uber fun game of which idea is scarier.

Frezzato:
An unusually large weapon was moved from country to country unnoticed or via bribery, incompetence, or specific intent.
That's the real problem here. That's what disturbs me.

Pfft, that's nothing. NATO lost six nuclear warheads during the Cold War that were never recovered or accounted for. Up to fifty Soviet warheads disappeared in the collapse of the USSR and Eastern Bloc. If I remember right, a leading theory in the case of Iran's and NK's nuclear programs is they were kickstarted by reverse engineering illegally-trafficked Soviet nukes.

Nuclear materials, all the way from power plant waste to weapons-grade uranium and plutonium, are still hot black market items. Pun intended. Nuclear materials go missing constantly with no leads; as far as I know, there's never been an arrest made for the plutonium theft from two years ago in San Antonio.

Shadowstar38:
Not gonna lie. If I had the funds, I'd buy one of those just to flex.

Not gonna lie either. I'm kinda experiencing a weapons boner.

Frezzato:
Bolt actions and Steyr TMP pistols? The randomness of the weapons is somewhat telling. Not sure what to think of it.

I give em props for having more varied inventory than some local gun shops, even subtracting the full-autos and the... giant fucking missile.

Agema:

I'm sure with a bit of technical know-how you could strip out the explosive and rig it as an improvised device.

You can, but that's kind of a waste. Much better off just making or otherwise securing general explosives, rather than taking them out of a far more valuable device.

Dreiko:
The second most odd thing being sold recently, after those bottles of used gamer girl bath water.

I think the means are the actual odd thing about this. This kind of stuff is probably a lot more common than most realize, just the others tend to not get caught with the good shit.

Eacaraxe:

Pfft, that's nothing. NATO lost six nuclear warheads during the Cold War that were never recovered or accounted for. Up to fifty Soviet warheads disappeared in the collapse of the USSR and Eastern Bloc. If I remember right, a leading theory in the case of Iran's and NK's nuclear programs is they were kickstarted by reverse engineering illegally-trafficked Soviet nukes.

Nuclear materials, all the way from power plant waste to weapons-grade uranium and plutonium, are still hot black market items. Pun intended. Nuclear materials go missing constantly with no leads; as far as I know, there's never been an arrest made for the plutonium theft from two years ago in San Antonio.

God bless Kojima for helping bring this kind of info to future generations.

Eacaraxe:

Frezzato:
An unusually large weapon was moved from country to country unnoticed or via bribery, incompetence, or specific intent.
That's the real problem here. That's what disturbs me.

Pfft, that's nothing. NATO lost six nuclear warheads during the Cold War that were never recovered or accounted for. Up to fifty Soviet warheads disappeared in the collapse of the USSR and Eastern Bloc. If I remember right, a leading theory in the case of Iran's and NK's nuclear programs is they were kickstarted by reverse engineering illegally-trafficked Soviet nukes.

Nuclear materials, all the way from power plant waste to weapons-grade uranium and plutonium, are still hot black market items. Pun intended. Nuclear materials go missing constantly with no leads; as far as I know, there's never been an arrest made for the plutonium theft from two years ago in San Antonio.

Yes, broken arrows. And a broken up Soviet Union. There's a nuke buried in the sandy shallows off of Georgia somewhere.

But past history does not make recent events any less disturbing.

Considering the fact that cars are stolen and shipped illegally overseas (it was big a few decades ago), this isn't surprising really. I mean the size of the stolen missile. And there's the tragic cost of human trafficking. Shipping containers full of people. Greed is always a driving factor.

Best case scenario is the missile was stolen at the point of origin, not sold. I hope it wasn't sold. Then again, who knows what lies were told every time the missile changed hands? Can you imagine the ridiculous conversations that might have taken place?

"Who's this for? You understand you need a jet for this to--"

"It's for my friend. He's super into military tech--"

"Yeah, yeah. Just gimme my money."

SupahEwok:
All those cities are northern Italy, which is 'Ndrangheta.

'Ndrangheta are Calabrian, southern Italy: Taranto, etc. They're active in Northern Italy, but it's not the heart of their operations.

Frezzato:
"Who's this for? You understand you need a jet for this to--"

"It's for my friend. He's super into military tech--"

"Yeah, yeah. Just gimme my money."

My concern when I read this story is that while it's far more likely that the NeoNazis were likely some kind of middleman for the "end user" of this particular weapon, there is a unpleasant plot in the back of my mind that is designed to trigger some kind of race riots between minority Muslim communities and white communities, likely in France.


As for how to transport it: shove it in a cargo container, which will get it through most ports if it even needs to. It doesn't even look long enough to be an issue for most vans other than its presumed weight.

While everyone seems to be happy to call them Neo-Nazis, they are actually Forza Nuova. Extremely far right, nationalistic, anticapitalist, antiliberal, antiamerian. The want to get out of the Nato and otherwise back to some glorified Italy that never was. There are some reasons to call them fascists, but they are far closer to Mussolini than to Nazis.

Calling them Neonazis is, while inaccurate, close enough. But when talking about their motivation and Mafia-involvement, well :

- They don't really about civil unrest in France. Or much about anything outside of Italy at all.

- They are (among other things) extremely opposed to the Mafia. Anti-Mafia-measures are important talking point for their political arm.

Satinavian:
While everyone seems to be happy to call them Neo-Nazis, they are actually Forza Nuova. Extremely far right, nationalistic, anticapitalist, antiliberal, antiamerian. The want to get out of the Nato and otherwise back to some glorified Italy that never was.

Unless you count Ancient Rome of course. And its all academic because they're fucking doolally.

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