[POLITICS] Police Officer says Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez 'should be shot'

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https://www.newsweek.com/police-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-should-shot-vile-idiot-1450356

In a fair world, he would be fired and arrested. But he wont be, because for all this bitching about 'how Antifa are violent extremists', the real violent extremists are people like this cop and all who defend him and keep in in his position.

If those in power cannot be trusted to use it responsibly, what recourse do we have?

But go on and tell me -I- am the 'uncivil one'.

Alexandria Cortez is a bit of a moron, I'll give him that. That's not grounds for a call to violence though. Especially if you supposedly have a profession dedicated to upholding peace.

Saelune:
because for all this bitching about 'how Antifa are violent extremists', the real violent extremists are people like this cop and all who defend him and keep in in his position.

To that I have to ask

Saelune:
Why do we have to be mad at only one thing at a time?

Shadowstar38:
Alexandria Cortez is a bit of a moron, I'll give him that. That's not grounds for a call to violence though. Especially if you supposedly have a profession dedicated to upholding peace.

Saelune:
because for all this bitching about 'how Antifa are violent extremists', the real violent extremists are people like this cop and all who defend him and keep in in his position.

To that I have to ask

Saelune:
Why do we have to be mad at only one thing at a time?

She is not a moran at all. She has done nothing but prove her intelligence, especially compared to her harshest critics.

The people mad at Antifa typically are not mad at the police...or concentration camps.

Saelune:
She is not a moran at all. She has done nothing but prove her intelligence, especially compared to her harshest critics.

image

The people mad at Antifa typically are not mad at the police...or concentration camps.

People who strongly identify with an ideology(in this case, right wing views) are usually going to see extremists on the opposite in of the spectrum as a larger threat. I'm just kinda like, if they're out here fucking stuff up, take them to prison. I don't care what cause lead them there.

Shadowstar38:

Saelune:
She is not a moran at all. She has done nothing but prove her intelligence, especially compared to her harshest critics.

image

The people mad at Antifa typically are not mad at the police...or concentration camps.

People who strongly identify with an ideology(in this case, right wing views) are usually going to see extremists on the opposite in of the spectrum as a larger threat. I'm just kinda like, if they're out here fucking stuff up, take them to prison. I don't care what cause lead them there.

Ok, I doubt you too. Why is she a moron? We live in a world where Trump is president and people defend that, but he is just, a HUGE FUCKING IDIOT!

Great, Antifa aint doing shit. Antifa is a right-wing dog-whistle. How many people have they killed? Now how many people have the police killed? How many have right-wing terrorists killed? Name me ONE place shot up by Antifa, cause I got multiple cases of right-wing mass shooters.

A cop just said AOC should be shot, but lets shit on AOC, right?

Shadowstar38:
Alexandria Cortez is a bit of a moron, I'll give him that.

I suspect that's one of those occasions where "moron" actually means "believes something different from me".

Threatening people like that proves nothing except that you have no actual rebuttal for what the other person is saying

Edit: It has been pointed out that much of the information I posted was inaccurate due to personal bias and lack of proper research. The original shall be left up for the sake of context

Saelune:
Ok, I doubt you too. Why is she a moron? We live in a world where Trump is president and people defend that, but he is just, a HUGE FUCKING IDIOT!

Great, Antifa aint doing shit. Antifa is a right-wing dog-whistle. How many people have they killed? Now how many people have the police killed? How many have right-wing terrorists killed? Name me ONE place shot up by Antifa, cause I got multiple cases of right-wing mass shooters.

A cop just said AOC should be shot, but lets shit on AOC, right?

I mean, I wasn't planning to turn this into a thread of me bashing AOC besides the one off comment, but if you want my full run down on that one.

And I could go all day from there. Basic point is, I'd like for the Democrats to succeed in 2020. And part of their agenda should be to tell this woman to put a sock in it so she doesn't ruin it for the rest of them. Same goes for a number of other representatives in the party.

As far as Antifa goes, your criteria for allowing people to complain about something is that it has to reach an arbitrary number on a violence scale otherwise it's not worth talking about? That doesn't sound feasible.

Shadowstar38:

Here's one regarding the "concentration camps" in which an officer refutes a lie she told about immigrants being made to "drink out of toilets"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZNxesruXVM

He ... doesn't 'debunk' anything. He walks around an empty room (I assume it's a cell) that has drinking water facilities, but in what way does that debunk the idea that other cells don't have those facilities? I mean, it's just a guy saying 'nu-uh!' He shows us a trolley with some supplies on it but at no point shows us those supplies reaching the people in the cells. Come on, is this really proof?

Shadowstar38:

And I could go all day from there. Basic point is, I'd like for the Democrats to succeed in 2020. And part of their agenda should be to tell this woman to put a sock in it so she doesn't ruin it for the rest of them. Same goes for a number of other representatives in the party.

Saying that Trump is using racism as a distraction and also rebutting his racism is not inconsistent. Even if it is a media distraction, rebutting the garbage leaving his mouth is valid as simply not saying anything would be worse. Standing in solidarity against that shit is important. I personally would argue that his racism isn't a distraction, that it's just what he does and what his base wants, but that's another matter.

Yes, they are concentration camps. And that "rebuttal" from the officer is laughable. Yes, they're combination toilet/sinks, but the one AOC was talking about had a broken sink. That they were told to drink from the toilet part of it instead. She fucking clarified this a long while before that video was even made. Didn't stop them from making it though did they?

That's not what she fucking said in that video. You're being dishonest as fuck.

Crossing the border to seek asylum is NOT illegal. It's not illegal to seek asylum. Granted, the administration WANTS it to be illegal. They don't want asylum seekers. Hell, they want to limit or even stop immigration period. But they haven't' quite got to that point yet. They're reaaaallllyyy trying though.

The Democratic leadership is garbage. I keep hearing "these new people are ruining" it, and I hear that from the old guard of the party too. Ya know, the old guard who's strategies literally lost them over one thousand seats and they insist you need to listen to them to win it all back by doing the same shit. Because it'll definitely work this time. Fuck that. And you're literally letting a right wing narrative control Democratic strategy and that's stupid as fuck. You don't let them control the narrative and work from there, you punch back. They're being disingenuous as fuck, and they know they are. Why let them have it their way?

Baffle2:

Shadowstar38:

Here's one regarding the "concentration camps" in which an officer refutes a lie she told about immigrants being made to "drink out of toilets"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZNxesruXVM

He ... doesn't 'debunk' anything. He walks around an empty room (I assume it's a cell) that has drinking water facilities, but in what way does that debunk the idea that other cells don't have those facilities? I mean, it's just a guy saying 'nu-uh!' He shows us a trolley with some supplies on it but at no point shows us those supplies reaching the people in the cells. Come on, is this really proof?

Definitively, you'd need a camera inside the exact cells she was indicating. The video more or less shows a hypothetical set up, that could be conflated as something totally different by someone who's either A) Ill informed or B) Being emotionally reactive to draw sympathy and votes. But your criticism is sensible, so I'll make an edit to reflect that.

EDIT: Only just now read Nedros's response. EDITED the EDIT

Shadowstar38:

Saelune:
Ok, I doubt you too. Why is she a moron? We live in a world where Trump is president and people defend that, but he is just, a HUGE FUCKING IDIOT!

Great, Antifa aint doing shit. Antifa is a right-wing dog-whistle. How many people have they killed? Now how many people have the police killed? How many have right-wing terrorists killed? Name me ONE place shot up by Antifa, cause I got multiple cases of right-wing mass shooters.

A cop just said AOC should be shot, but lets shit on AOC, right?

I mean, I wasn't planning to turn this into a thread of me bashing AOC besides the one off comment, but if you want my full run down on that one.

And I could go all day from there. Basic point is, I'd like for the Democrats to succeed in 2020. And part of their agenda should be to tell this woman to put a sock in it so she doesn't ruin it for the rest of them. Same goes for a number of other representatives in the party.

As far as Antifa goes, your criteria for allowing people to complain about something is that it has to reach an arbitrary number on a violence scale otherwise it's not worth talking about? That doesn't sound feasible.

WOW. Seriously. First of all, you were the one who just stated a lie, not AOC. Immigrant women told AOC and others, not just AOC, that agents told them to drink out of the toilet. AOC repeating what the immigrants themselves told her is not "telling a lie", it is relaying what she and other's were told.

Get the story straight before throwing out bad information:

Rep. Joaquin Castro said that at Border Patrol Station 1 near El Paso a group of 15 to 20 mothers were held in a cell that had a toilet with no running water.

"There was a toilet but no running water for people to drink," Castro said. "One of the women said she was told by an agent to drink water out of the toilet."

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/adolfoflores/immigrants-drinking-toilets-water-aoc-border-patrol
It was not refuted in any possible way. Instead an agent showed that the water was working in a different cell, at a different time, but that in no way applies to what the women had previously experienced. Even if a toilet has a water fountain attached that does not mean the water fountain was even operational at the time for them to drink when the incident occurred.

In addition:
Those seeking asylum were illegally turned away at the ports of entry and forced to cross wherever possible to turn themselves in and put on "wait lists" that caused immediate danger and threat to their lives. Trump's policies were forcing people to cross wherever they could rather go through points of entry. You can't close the ports of entry and deny asylum seekers the right to seek asylum and then claim they are committing a crime by trying to turn themselves in anywhere to be able to seek asylum. That is pretty much BS the former ICE director is pushing out there.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1158
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_asylum
https://thehill.com/latino/418157-us-customs-closes-major-point-of-entry-along-southern-border
https://www.humanrightsfirst.org/resource/barred-border-wait-lists-leave-asylum-seekers-peril-texas-ports-entry
https://time.com/5626498/trump-asylum-rule-international-law/
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/12/world/americas/mexico-migrants.html

What AOC said was not wrong. The reason asyulm laws exist is to keep those seeking asylum safe and we are failing to do that if they are being denied the ability to seek asylum and put into further danger by forcing them into even more dangerous situations while waiting. The Former ICE director knows they have a right to cross the border to seek asylum, but he is refusing to address this part of the law (from the link above):

8 U.S. Code  1158. Asylum
(1) In general
Any alien who is physically present in the United States or who arrives in the United States (whether or not at a designated port of arrival and including an alien who is brought to the United States after having been interdicted in international or United States waters), irrespective of such alien's status, may apply for asylum in accordance with this section or, where applicable, section 1225(b) of this title.

The law is pretty clear here and regardless of if the former ICE director likes this part of the law or not, according to the actual law, asylum seekers do not have to enter at a port of entry and they do not have to have entered the country legally.

You are showing videos showing that AOC was right, not wrong here, you just have to understand what the law actually is to understand that.

Before calling someone else a moron, you might want to check yourself first. It appears AOC is not the one who "needs to put a sock in it", as you so eloquently put it.

Saelune:
https://www.newsweek.com/police-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-should-shot-vile-idiot-1450356

In a fair world, he would be fired and arrested. But he wont be, because for all this bitching about 'how Antifa are violent extremists', the real violent extremists are people like this cop and all who defend him and keep in in his position.

If those in power cannot be trusted to use it responsibly, what recourse do we have?

But go on and tell me -I- am the 'uncivil one'.

If one holds such extremists views and opinions, not only should they be barred from any job in law enforcement, they should really be barred from any job where their position could be used to harm others. They should not be dealing with the public at all if they think that innocent people should be " shot" because they disagree with them tbh.

You know, sometimes I get a little depressed by all this. Just a little though.. maybe even just a tad.

Lil devils x:

Saelune:
https://www.newsweek.com/police-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-should-shot-vile-idiot-1450356

In a fair world, he would be fired and arrested. But he wont be, because for all this bitching about 'how Antifa are violent extremists', the real violent extremists are people like this cop and all who defend him and keep in in his position.

If those in power cannot be trusted to use it responsibly, what recourse do we have?

But go on and tell me -I- am the 'uncivil one'.

If one holds such extremists views and opinions, not only should they be barred from any job in law enforcement, they should really be barred from any job where their position could be used to harm others. They should not be dealing with the public at all if they think that innocent people should be " shot" because they disagree with them tbh.

I'd suggest you read up on Senator Matt Shea who wrote the Treatise for Bibical Warfare and was part of the occupation of Malhern reserve. Also read up on Posse Comitasus, Constitutional Sheriffs and the threats by a Republican state member of Oregon, hiding with 3%ers, who told police they better send their bachelors and heavy armour to get him back to vote on a climate change bill. You know, becuase they would die

Shadowstar38:

Saelune:
Ok, I doubt you too. Why is she a moron? We live in a world where Trump is president and people defend that, but he is just, a HUGE FUCKING IDIOT!

Great, Antifa aint doing shit. Antifa is a right-wing dog-whistle. How many people have they killed? Now how many people have the police killed? How many have right-wing terrorists killed? Name me ONE place shot up by Antifa, cause I got multiple cases of right-wing mass shooters.

A cop just said AOC should be shot, but lets shit on AOC, right?

I mean, I wasn't planning to turn this into a thread of me bashing AOC besides the one off comment, but if you want my full run down on that one.

And I could go all day from there. Basic point is, I'd like for the Democrats to succeed in 2020. And part of their agenda should be to tell this woman to put a sock in it so she doesn't ruin it for the rest of them. Same goes for a number of other representatives in the party.

As far as Antifa goes, your criteria for allowing people to complain about something is that it has to reach an arbitrary number on a violence scale otherwise it's not worth talking about? That doesn't sound feasible.

I want people to not be hypocrites. People who condemn Antifa are usually hypocrites, the kind who say they are 'pro-life' but want to murder doctors who perform abortions, the kind of people who say 'love it or leave it' while also saying that America is not great anymore. The kind of people who endorse a vulgar uncivil jerk while crying about people being mean to them.

Pelosi and Biden are the ones who need to shut up.

*Sigh*

I mean, the dude is free to think whatever he wants, and he technically didn't make a threat...but how fucking stupid can you be?

It's a perfect example to put into Obsidian's thread about people owning themselves on social media.

Things like this are what I think of when people try to assure me that police have a tough time, and they need more understanding and patience than the rest of us.

Some of them clearly don't have it for us as citizens. I hate Trump. I would like to see him in jail. I do not wish his life to be cut short, no matter how much he's destroyed this country and possibly the world in my eyes.

There are people here I disagree with every fiber of my being. I still legitimately wish them well and want the best for them as they are apart of my community.

I don't want cops hurt. I don't trust them. They have too much power without any oversight, and I know my life could be snuffed out for anything and nothing will happen to them. But they deserve long and healthy lives just like the rest of us.

Seeing a callous display from people who can kill with seemingly impunity (as long as the 'accidental death' was of the correct group), hell, just toss it on the ever growing pile why I'll never trust cops.

Dirty Hipsters:
*Sigh*

I mean, the dude is free to think whatever he wants, and he technically didn't make a threat...but how fucking stupid can you be?

It's a perfect example to put into Obsidian's thread about people owning themselves on social media.

The police saying someone should be shot is 100% a threat.

If someone said a cop should be shot, the police would take it as a threat, I guarantee it.

Hopefully, she bulldozes Joe Biden's Presidential campaign.

Also, Tom Billionaire Grandstander Steyer just entered the race.

BTW if he wins I am leaving the presidential pick empty, and I don't care that I live in a swing state.

If Beto, Steyer, Cloudbootjar, or Biden win the dem nomination I am hopping on the green party train, and GTFO.

Also, the Hamptons are a low-lying area that is very indefensible tactically.

Saelune:

Dirty Hipsters:
*Sigh*

I mean, the dude is free to think whatever he wants, and he technically didn't make a threat...but how fucking stupid can you be?

It's a perfect example to put into Obsidian's thread about people owning themselves on social media.

The police saying someone should be shot is 100% a threat.

If someone said a cop should be shot, the police would take it as a threat, I guarantee it.

It's too cowardly to actually be a threat. He didn't say he was going to shoot her, he just says that someone somewhere should do it *wink wink*.

It's basically just internet trolling. He doesn't intend to do anything, but he would celebrate if some random wackjob actually did it. I can't count the number of times people have said that certain politicians should be shot, Obama and Trump included, it's always just angry hyperbole from stupid people who should know better.

The cop was fired over this. Another cop who liked the post was also fired.

It is still disturbing that a cop would think that posting something that would be OK.

Dirty Hipsters:

Saelune:

Dirty Hipsters:
*Sigh*

I mean, the dude is free to think whatever he wants, and he technically didn't make a threat...but how fucking stupid can you be?

It's a perfect example to put into Obsidian's thread about people owning themselves on social media.

The police saying someone should be shot is 100% a threat.

If someone said a cop should be shot, the police would take it as a threat, I guarantee it.

It's too cowardly to actually be a threat. He didn't say he was going to shoot her, he just says that someone somewhere should do it *wink wink*.

It's basically just internet trolling. He doesn't intend to do anything, but he would celebrate if some random wackjob actually did it. I can't count the number of times people have said that certain politicians should be shot, Obama and Trump included, it's always just angry hyperbole from stupid people who should know better.

-Person says bad thing should happen
-People say they wont do it
-Person does it
-'Who could have seen this coming!?'

Saelune:

Shadowstar38:

Saelune:
Ok, I doubt you too. Why is she a moron? We live in a world where Trump is president and people defend that, but he is just, a HUGE FUCKING IDIOT!

Great, Antifa aint doing shit. Antifa is a right-wing dog-whistle. How many people have they killed? Now how many people have the police killed? How many have right-wing terrorists killed? Name me ONE place shot up by Antifa, cause I got multiple cases of right-wing mass shooters.

A cop just said AOC should be shot, but lets shit on AOC, right?

I mean, I wasn't planning to turn this into a thread of me bashing AOC besides the one off comment, but if you want my full run down on that one.

And I could go all day from there. Basic point is, I'd like for the Democrats to succeed in 2020. And part of their agenda should be to tell this woman to put a sock in it so she doesn't ruin it for the rest of them. Same goes for a number of other representatives in the party.

As far as Antifa goes, your criteria for allowing people to complain about something is that it has to reach an arbitrary number on a violence scale otherwise it's not worth talking about? That doesn't sound feasible.

I want people to not be hypocrites. People who condemn Antifa are usually hypocrites, the kind who say they are 'pro-life' but want to murder doctors who perform abortions, the kind of people who say 'love it or leave it' while also saying that America is not great anymore. The kind of people who endorse a vulgar uncivil jerk while crying about people being mean to them.

Pelosi and Biden are the ones who need to shut up.

As much as I agree with AOC's positions, she does need to tone things down. A lot of the seats Democrats won were in contested districts that went for trump in 2016. They might be scared off by a left wing candidate and go republican again. What you believe in almost doesn't matter, what matters is winning. If Democrats stand for all the things that the squad wants but it costs them the election in 2020 then nothing they want matters and republicans get to keep fucking things up and probably appoint more judges to the supreme court. The supreme court is already going to have another conservative majority for a very long time, but it can still swing certain directions, if they get to appoint more judges then it will be heavily conservative and one branch of the government will be hard line conservative for a very long time.

I like pretty much all the stuff AOC is pushing for, but its entirely likely that most of the people in the right states don't. So her more aggressive actions could sink plans to unseat republicans. While its fun to bash Pelosi, shes monstrously effective and there is a reason conservatives hate her.

The police are entiteled to their opinions so long as they don't make calls for violence, which this very much is. Any police officer who calls for th killing of any civilian in this manner should be considered for dismissal, as they are proving themselves unfit to serve and protect by doing so. It would be no less inappropriate for a democratic-leaning police officer to call for Trump to be shot

Worgen:

Saelune:

Shadowstar38:

I mean, I wasn't planning to turn this into a thread of me bashing AOC besides the one off comment, but if you want my full run down on that one.

And I could go all day from there. Basic point is, I'd like for the Democrats to succeed in 2020. And part of their agenda should be to tell this woman to put a sock in it so she doesn't ruin it for the rest of them. Same goes for a number of other representatives in the party.

As far as Antifa goes, your criteria for allowing people to complain about something is that it has to reach an arbitrary number on a violence scale otherwise it's not worth talking about? That doesn't sound feasible.

I want people to not be hypocrites. People who condemn Antifa are usually hypocrites, the kind who say they are 'pro-life' but want to murder doctors who perform abortions, the kind of people who say 'love it or leave it' while also saying that America is not great anymore. The kind of people who endorse a vulgar uncivil jerk while crying about people being mean to them.

Pelosi and Biden are the ones who need to shut up.

As much as I agree with AOC's positions, she does need to tone things down. A lot of the seats Democrats won were in contested districts that went for trump in 2016. They might be scared off by a left wing candidate and go republican again. What you believe in almost doesn't matter, what matters is winning. If Democrats stand for all the things that the squad wants but it costs them the election in 2020 then nothing they want matters and republicans get to keep fucking things up and probably appoint more judges to the supreme court. The supreme court is already going to have another conservative majority for a very long time, but it can still swing certain directions, if they get to appoint more judges then it will be heavily conservative and one branch of the government will be hard line conservative for a very long time.

I like pretty much all the stuff AOC is pushing for, but its entirely likely that most of the people in the right states don't. So her more aggressive actions could sink plans to unseat republicans. While its fun to bash Pelosi, shes monstrously effective and there is a reason conservatives hate her.

I know enough about you Worgen, to know you know are no right-wing shill. So I know you mean well, but you are very very wrong here, and you are echoing this myth that speaking up and speaking out will only scare away supporters. That's not true. We need to stand up to evil, stand up to corruption, and we need to NOT BACK DOWN! AOC needs to say these things, so more people will be encouraged to speak up! Not speaking up is the problem. Yes, speaking up, in my personal experience, gets those who want you silent to pull out their hammers to hammer you down, but that is evidence that THEY ARE WRONG.

Pelosi is garbage. She needs to shut up. I don't expect her to support socialism, or to outright praise AOC, but to actively condemn the only people who are giving a fuck, THAT is what needs to be kept quiet. Pelosi refuses to stop Trump, she refuses to do what is IN HER POWER TO DO, and even I cant sit back and be ok with that.

It is not fun to bash Pelosi. Until she outright dismissed AOC, and refused to take down Trump, I was more than willing to support and praise her, but unlike Republicans, I have a limit to how much wrongness I can condone from 'my side'.

Pelosi needs to just let AOC do her thing.

Saelune:

Worgen:

Saelune:
I want people to not be hypocrites. People who condemn Antifa are usually hypocrites, the kind who say they are 'pro-life' but want to murder doctors who perform abortions, the kind of people who say 'love it or leave it' while also saying that America is not great anymore. The kind of people who endorse a vulgar uncivil jerk while crying about people being mean to them.

Pelosi and Biden are the ones who need to shut up.

As much as I agree with AOC's positions, she does need to tone things down. A lot of the seats Democrats won were in contested districts that went for trump in 2016. They might be scared off by a left wing candidate and go republican again. What you believe in almost doesn't matter, what matters is winning. If Democrats stand for all the things that the squad wants but it costs them the election in 2020 then nothing they want matters and republicans get to keep fucking things up and probably appoint more judges to the supreme court. The supreme court is already going to have another conservative majority for a very long time, but it can still swing certain directions, if they get to appoint more judges then it will be heavily conservative and one branch of the government will be hard line conservative for a very long time.

I like pretty much all the stuff AOC is pushing for, but its entirely likely that most of the people in the right states don't. So her more aggressive actions could sink plans to unseat republicans. While its fun to bash Pelosi, shes monstrously effective and there is a reason conservatives hate her.

I know enough about you Worgen, to know you know are no right-wing shill. So I know you mean well, but you are very very wrong here, and you are echoing this myth that speaking up and speaking out will only scare away supporters. That's not true. We need to stand up to evil, stand up to corruption, and we need to NOT BACK DOWN! AOC needs to say these things, so more people will be encouraged to speak up! Not speaking up is the problem. Yes, speaking up, in my personal experience, gets those who want you silent to pull out their hammers to hammer you down, but that is evidence that THEY ARE WRONG.

Pelosi is garbage. She needs to shut up. I don't expect her to support socialism, or to outright praise AOC, but to actively condemn the only people who are giving a fuck, THAT is what needs to be kept quiet. Pelosi refuses to stop Trump, she refuses to do what is IN HER POWER TO DO, and even I cant sit back and be ok with that.

It is not fun to bash Pelosi. Until she outright dismissed AOC, and refused to take down Trump, I was more than willing to support and praise her, but unlike Republicans, I have a limit to how much wrongness I can condone from 'my side'.

Pelosi needs to just let AOC do her thing.

I'm unconvinced. I agree with everything your saying and I want to be able to stand against the corruption and not take corporate money and all that good stuff. But, in todays stupid world, I'm not convinced that leads to victory. And victory is all that matters. Republicans know this and will go hard on it, hard as they can, they will lie, cheat, steal, and perform pretty much any underhanded action they can to win. The only way to stop them from doing that is to win. I like the squad but they come from extremely secure solidly democratic districts. Most of the new dems don't.

There isn't much she can do against trump. She could start impeachment proceedings, which I would love to see, but there is a 0% chance of him being removed from office. The democrats only have congress, not the house. It's a tossup if that would help or hurt, I mean it would really expose his crimes for everyone to see and have to look at, but... well. His approval rating went up when he was saying that racist shit against the squad. This is still a stupid country that can hand wave racism as long as its not explicitly racist and trump is actually very good at not saying anything explicitly racist. At least in such a way that his supporters can hand wave as him talking about demographics and not race. So its entirely possible that impeachment would just empower him and bolster his base. Because he wouldn't be removed and he would sure as hell say that was vindication against all misdeeds.

I do agree, that Pelosi was a bit harsh with the squad but at the same time, Pelosi knows the game. The game is bullshit, the game is loaded, the game is corrupt, but all that matters is winning the game. Because everything gets worse when the republicans win the game.

Worgen:

Saelune:

Worgen:

As much as I agree with AOC's positions, she does need to tone things down. A lot of the seats Democrats won were in contested districts that went for trump in 2016. They might be scared off by a left wing candidate and go republican again. What you believe in almost doesn't matter, what matters is winning. If Democrats stand for all the things that the squad wants but it costs them the election in 2020 then nothing they want matters and republicans get to keep fucking things up and probably appoint more judges to the supreme court. The supreme court is already going to have another conservative majority for a very long time, but it can still swing certain directions, if they get to appoint more judges then it will be heavily conservative and one branch of the government will be hard line conservative for a very long time.

I like pretty much all the stuff AOC is pushing for, but its entirely likely that most of the people in the right states don't. So her more aggressive actions could sink plans to unseat republicans. While its fun to bash Pelosi, shes monstrously effective and there is a reason conservatives hate her.

I know enough about you Worgen, to know you know are no right-wing shill. So I know you mean well, but you are very very wrong here, and you are echoing this myth that speaking up and speaking out will only scare away supporters. That's not true. We need to stand up to evil, stand up to corruption, and we need to NOT BACK DOWN! AOC needs to say these things, so more people will be encouraged to speak up! Not speaking up is the problem. Yes, speaking up, in my personal experience, gets those who want you silent to pull out their hammers to hammer you down, but that is evidence that THEY ARE WRONG.

Pelosi is garbage. She needs to shut up. I don't expect her to support socialism, or to outright praise AOC, but to actively condemn the only people who are giving a fuck, THAT is what needs to be kept quiet. Pelosi refuses to stop Trump, she refuses to do what is IN HER POWER TO DO, and even I cant sit back and be ok with that.

It is not fun to bash Pelosi. Until she outright dismissed AOC, and refused to take down Trump, I was more than willing to support and praise her, but unlike Republicans, I have a limit to how much wrongness I can condone from 'my side'.

Pelosi needs to just let AOC do her thing.

I'm unconvinced. I agree with everything your saying and I want to be able to stand against the corruption and not take corporate money and all that good stuff. But, in todays stupid world, I'm not convinced that leads to victory. And victory is all that matters. Republicans know this and will go hard on it, hard as they can, they will lie, cheat, steal, and perform pretty much any underhanded action they can to win. The only way to stop them from doing that is to win.

There isn't much she can do against trump. She could start impeachment proceedings, which I would love to see, but there is a 0% chance of him being removed from office. The democrats only have congress, not the house. It's a tossup if that would help or hurt, I mean it would really expose his crimes for everyone to see and have to look at, but... well. His approval rating went up when he was saying that racist shit against the squad. This is still a stupid country that can hand wave racism as long as its not explicitly racist and trump is actually very good at not saying anything explicitly racist. At least in such a way that his supporters can hand wave as him talking about demographics and not race. So its entirely possible that impeachment would just empower him and bolster his base. Because he wouldn't be removed and he would sure as hell say that was vindication against all misdeeds.

I do agree, that Pelosi was a bit harsh with the squad but at the same time, Pelosi knows the game. The game is bullshit, the game is loaded, the game is corrupt, but all that matters is winning the game. Because everything gets worse when the republicans win the game.

Ofcourse you agree with me. Most people here do. But many don't want to speak up about that, or atleast don't want to until I am already pages deep in calling out BS. Cause I give them the opening to do so, while they get to appear as more subdued while I take the heat. That is basically my point. Pelosi should not go against AOC, but should let her and the others be willing to say what needs to be said, then all she needs to do is take her moments when even she needs to back AOC.

People should not have to be scared of being honest.

Worgen:
As much as I agree with AOC's positions, she does need to tone things down. A lot of the seats Democrats won were in contested districts that went for trump in 2016. They might be scared off by a left wing candidate and go republican again. What you believe in almost doesn't matter, what matters is winning. If Democrats stand for all the things that the squad wants but it costs them the election in 2020 then nothing they want matters and republicans get to keep fucking things up and probably appoint more judges to the supreme court. The supreme court is already going to have another conservative majority for a very long time, but it can still swing certain directions, if they get to appoint more judges then it will be heavily conservative and one branch of the government will be hard line conservative for a very long time.

I like pretty much all the stuff AOC is pushing for, but its entirely likely that most of the people in the right states don't. So her more aggressive actions could sink plans to unseat republicans. While its fun to bash Pelosi, shes monstrously effective and there is a reason conservatives hate her.

No disrespect to you here. Like Saelune, I think highly of you and this is just a little quibbling point where we just view the world differently.

But this is the type of thing that black people have to juggle for years.

If Blacks don't speak up, no one helps them. If they speak up too much, they are whiny and ungrateful. If they are speaking in a calm tone, it must not be that much of a problem or else they would see upset.

Before, Democrats were weak and too nervous. People lost respect for Corporate Democrats (I know I have, and that's why I've became progressive) because they showed no backbone. Democratic Weakness was a phrase we gotten use to during the Obama years. Democrats need to speak up, stand straight, suffer a few blows while sticking to their guns.

And AOC does this. Bernie Does this. Then people say "Hey... hey guys... calm down a little".

Quiet Strength isn't selling any more. It hurts me to type that, because it's literally all I got. I use intelligence, I use facts. I'm usually countered with "No you're wrong" without any backing it up, and some case flat out lies and re-imaging of scenarios and that being used instead of what actually happened. That's enough for people nowadays.

If that's how the game is to be played, then let's play it. Let's bring our facts, and let's make it impossible to ignore.

*gateway timeout double post timey-wimey nonsense*

It wasn't a genuine threat or credible incitement to violence, and despite it being probably an ill-advised thing for a serving police officer to write, I think even public servants should have the freedom to express themselves on their personal social media accounts. I'll also point out the seeming double standard where liberals will defend a comedian posing with an effigy of the severed head of Donald Trump as social commentary or art, but some guy muttering about a politician on his friends-only Facebook page is outrageous hate speech.

Batou667:
It wasn't a genuine threat or credible incitement to violence, and despite it being probably an ill-advised thing for a serving police officer to write, I think even public servants should have the freedom to express themselves on their personal social media accounts. I'll also point out the seeming double standard where liberals will defend a comedian posing with an effigy of the severed head of Donald Trump as social commentary or art, but some guy muttering about a politician on his friends-only Facebook page is outrageous hate speech.

I think the Trump stunt was universally condemned. Let me check...

yeah, it was. She was fired, a lot of her bookings were cancelled. Actually it was pretty bad for Griffin.

But the difference between Griffin and this officer? Griffin isn't out there telling jokes, and doling out punitive restrictions of freedom... or worse.. if they don't agree with her humor. The abuse of power by police, however, stacks up day by day.

I can turn off a comedian or boycott them. It doesn't matter if I disagree with police, I gotta listen and do what he or she says. That's a threat to the community if that police officer is questionable.

Nielas:
The cop was fired over this. Another cop who liked the post was also fired.

It is still disturbing that a cop would think that posting something that would be OK.

Good. I don't want people who are that stupid and socially inept to be cops.

ObsidianJones:

I think the Trump stunt was universally condemned. Let me check...

But the difference between Griffin and this officer? Griffin isn't out there telling jokes, and doling out punitive restrictions of freedom... or worse.. if they don't agree with her humor. The abuse of power by police, however, stacks up day by day.

I can turn off a comedian or boycott them. It doesn't matter if I disagree with police, I gotta listen and do what he or she says. That's a threat to the community if that police officer is questionable.

Kathy Griffin was widely condemned, but not universally. I recall plenty of people sympathising with her.

I would say that a police officer's personal opinions on a politician shouldn't matter as long as he can separate his home and work life and be professional while in uniform. I would find it far more sinister to think that the state would consider public servants fit for duty only if they pledge allegiance to one political ideology.

Dirty Hipsters:
It's too cowardly to actually be a threat. He didn't say he was going to shoot her, he just says that someone somewhere should do it *wink wink*.

It's basically just internet trolling. He doesn't intend to do anything, but he would celebrate if some random wackjob actually did it. I can't count the number of times people have said that certain politicians should be shot, Obama and Trump included, it's always just angry hyperbole from stupid people who should know better.

Even if we agree with the above notion, that it's "just trolling", the man in question is still a police officer. That's the crux; because of the function he has, he isn't allowed to be as careless as a civilian. '

Batou667:
I think even public servants should have the freedom to express themselves on their personal social media accounts.

I disagree. I think the saying that a "good cop is never off duty" exists for a reason.
I don't know what's the legal framing in the US, but around here cops are expected to act in a way that doesn't cast a shade on the service, regardless if they wear their uniform or not. (Even if, in many cases, they don't...)

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