The Brutal Hypocrisy of Twitch - Alynitys Privileged Immunity

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CritialGaming:

Nevermind the fact that Twitch has NEVER advertised other streamers on offline accounts.

It seems they were trying a new feature. Did you check if other offline accounts were having other streamers advertised at the same time than when this happened?

EDIT: The porn streamer seems to have put his streams in the Fortnite category and hadn't been reported yet.

PS: I just found funny the sudden concern about porn in your comment. lol

CaitSeith:

CritialGaming:

Nevermind the fact that Twitch has NEVER advertised other streamers on offline accounts.

It seems they were trying a new feature. Did you check if other offline accounts were having other streamers advertised at the same time than when this happened?

EDIT: The porn streamer seems to have put his streams in the Fortnite category and hadn't been reported yet.

PS: I just found funny the sudden concern about porn in your comment. lol

Yeah I don't care about the porn. Pornhub isn't exactly age blocked after all. It's just Twitch's poor consistancy in it's enforcement that bothers me.

Eacaraxe:

Nedoras:
No. But Twitch generally doesn't give a damn about what it's streamers do and that includes being emotionally manipulative and exploitative...

The issue is...define manipulation and exploitation.

The idiocy about Amouranth hiding her marital status and that idiot who donated thousands of dollars to her playing the "nice guy" act hoping to get up in there? Was that manipulative? At least in my opinion, that wasn't...little shady perhaps, but at the end of the day content producers create a brand and persona for themselves, they market that brand, and it's on people to realize what they see on the idiot box isn't necessarily reflective of reality.

What about Kaceytron's She-DSP persona? Is she exploitative? If you go back and watch her earlier content, it becomes obvious she's not nearly as poor a player as she presents herself; she deliberately cultivates a brand of incompetence and buffoonery, because it gets her more exposure and revenue than playing and behaving like a competent adult. Nevertheless, her brand is extremely toxic, and she can always rely upon media to white knight her rather than call her out for the impact her persona has on the perception of gamers, streamers, and particularly women in either.

And, last, what about the latest ZombiUnicorn stunt at E3 this year? One could well agree with her point about booth babes and performers at exhibits...as long as you discount the fact she didn't speak to any of the women involved, to hear or charitably represent their point of view, until the matter was publicly forced by one of the actual dancers. Or that she completely failed to recognize the men in the dance troupe, or the women's costumes were more conservative than typical house/scene/rave fashion. Or that, as typical, her first recourse for anyone that so much as kindly disagreed with her was to fling rather nasty insults, including towards other women who weren't in complete lockstep with her opinion. Or that she was pulling quite similar stunts the entire duration of E3 as an official spokesperson complete with media pass, and ignoring equal if not worse behavior by other Twitch partners, up to and including what I believe was a livestreamed twerking contest involving actual strippers "on the job" so to speak. Or that, given her Twitch partner status, her relationship with her platform is much the same as the dancers' she called out for all of the above reasons and more.

When I say manipulative or exploitative, I'm talking about them being that way towards their own communities/viewers. I'd have to actually see how these individuals interact with their community and what kind of community that they foster to really comment on if they're being manipulative or exploitative towards them. But, I'll still give my two cents on these examples.

With Amouranth I'd say it all depends how she reacted to that individual donating stupid amounts of money and being weird about it on top of that. If she egged it on or didn't do anything about it, then yeah that's pretty exploitative. Some guy donating thousands of dollars expecting some kind of relationship to form clearly isn't in a good place. I know that if I was in her in that situation I'd try to do something about it. Her never saying that she's married isn't necessarily manipulative, and even if people knew I don't think it would even remotely stop things like that from happening. But how she responds to shit like that is important.

As for Kaceytron, a persona of being a "bad gamer" isn't manipulative or exploitative per say, but she definitely has used it to create and exploit controversy for publicity. Her persona IS toxic, but that's a whole other problem. I have no idea how she treats her own community though.

ZombiUnicorn....isn't that one of the people who did the whole Bully Hunters thing? I'd lump her in with Kaceytron as someone who tries to create controversy and exploit the hell out of it for publicity. Like I said, toxicity and the like is also a problem.

Toxicity and manipulating or exploiting your audience can intertwine though. It's just that I don't know if that's the case with them as I've never watched them.

Also, it is on people to realize what they see on the screen isn't reflective of reality, but it's also on streamers to responsibly manage and interact with their communities. As I earlier pointed out, more and more people in very recent times go to the internet to cope with all sorts of issues. This is nothing but an anecdote, but the sheer number of times I've seen a donation that read "thanks I'm really depressed and have so many problems and you help me with that" is insane. I'd really love to see some form of study on Twitch, mental health, and how healthy all of this is. Because some streamers don't really realize the position they have over some people, and sometimes respond in ways that just fuel the flames.

Nedoras:
...Because some streamers don't really realize the position they have over some people, and sometimes respond in ways that just fuel the flames.

I don't believe any of it is healthy on any level. You have a platform that actively incentivizes reality TV behavior, but without any editorial control, production management, consultancy, representation, professional vetting, or PR/image management. Twitch encourages extremes; people have to play extremely good, or behave extremely poorly, to get views. Meanwhile, there's practically zero middle ground in terms of success on the platform; you're either a Twitch partner and making bank, or not and likely barely making side hustle money. Then you have that Twitch protects its whales to their very eyeteeth, and everyone else gets thrown to the wolves at the drop of a hat.

It's a perpetual race to the bottom to be the biggest dipshit with the best hustle, because while the barriers to entry could not possibly be lower, the barriers to success are so high that any and every comparative advantage to other aspiring streamers can and must be exploited to the hilt. And for every major streamer who fucks up badly enough to start losing sponsorships and advertisers (where Twitch likely makes most of their money), there are a dozen more waiting in the wings who may or may not behave even worse. Which means that in today's "1984 was an instruction manual" goldfish-memory media landscape, there's zero incentive nor consequence for selectivity in spokespeople.

I for one enjoy the shitshows most.

Nedoras:
As I earlier pointed out, more and more people in very recent times go to the internet to cope with all sorts of issues. This is nothing but an anecdote, but the sheer number of times I've seen a donation that read "thanks I'm really depressed and have so many problems and you help me with that" is insane. I'd really love to see some form of study on Twitch, mental health, and how healthy all of this is. Because some streamers don't really realize the position they have over some people, and sometimes respond in ways that just fuel the flames.

I think it's more of a rule that the streamers don't take donation messages seriously, because if they did it could actually encourage people to think there is a chance of a "real" friendship with them which would include talking about heavy real life things. With that in mind the depressing donation messages are probably trolls most of the time.

Honestly, I can't see the seriousness on the level you do, but I'm glad to hear a differing opinion about it. Like, I don't think the reality tv behavior is bad if you recognize its ridiculousness. And if you don't... I can't imagine a *new* problem Twitch would bring into the mix for those people.

Eacaraxe:

Nedoras:
...Because some streamers don't really realize the position they have over some people, and sometimes respond in ways that just fuel the flames.

I don't believe any of it is healthy on any level. You have a platform that actively incentivizes reality TV behavior, but without any editorial control, production management, consultancy, representation, professional vetting, or PR/image management. Twitch encourages extremes; people have to play extremely good, or behave extremely poorly, to get views. Meanwhile, there's practically zero middle ground in terms of success on the platform; you're either a Twitch partner and making bank, or not and likely barely making side hustle money. Then you have that Twitch protects its whales to their very eyeteeth, and everyone else gets thrown to the wolves at the drop of a hat.

It's a perpetual race to the bottom to be the biggest dipshit with the best hustle, because while the barriers to entry could not possibly be lower, the barriers to success are so high that any and every comparative advantage to other aspiring streamers can and must be exploited to the hilt. And for every major streamer who fucks up badly enough to start losing sponsorships and advertisers (where Twitch likely makes most of their money), there are a dozen more waiting in the wings who may or may not behave even worse. Which means that in today's "1984 was an instruction manual" goldfish-memory media landscape, there's zero incentive nor consequence for selectivity in spokespeople.

Oh I agree, I don't believe it's healthy either. So much about what happens on Twitch, Youtube, and the like is fucked. It really needs to be professionally examined and dragged into the spotlight. These platforms at some point are going to have to acknowledge what they're allowing, and change things. They're never going to do so though unless they're forced to. If that ever even happens anyway. Right now it seems we're still at the phase where media pieces are just condemning individual streamers, rather than the kind of behavior that Twitch not only allows but encourages.

McElroy:
I for one enjoy the shitshows most.

Nedoras:
As I earlier pointed out, more and more people in very recent times go to the internet to cope with all sorts of issues. This is nothing but an anecdote, but the sheer number of times I've seen a donation that read "thanks I'm really depressed and have so many problems and you help me with that" is insane. I'd really love to see some form of study on Twitch, mental health, and how healthy all of this is. Because some streamers don't really realize the position they have over some people, and sometimes respond in ways that just fuel the flames.

I think it's more of a rule that the streamers don't take donation messages seriously, because if they did it could actually encourage people to think there is a chance of a "real" friendship with them which would include talking about heavy real life things. With that in mind the depressing donation messages are probably trolls most of the time.

Honestly, I can't see the seriousness on the level you do, but I'm glad to hear a differing opinion about it. Like, I don't think the reality tv behavior is bad if you recognize its ridiculousness. And if you don't... I can't imagine a *new* problem Twitch would bring into the mix for those people.

That's the thing though. Sure they might not take those donations seriously, or even react with sincerity, but how does the person seeing that reaction feel about that? How do they interpret it? And I've seen plenty of streamers who DO respond sincerely to those messages and take them seriously. It's yet again, an anecdote, but it's why I'm interested in a study on how these interactions can really impact someone's mental health. If it's good or bad or both. Shrugging it off as being trolling is reductive.

No, I don't think it's bad if everyone realized that it was all nonsense and were really self aware about it....to a point. But that's not the case. I'm not even saying that it's truly something serious and a big problem. But, it is a problem at the very least, and it think it warrants investigation. For example, I'd like to see some data on how many people feel legitimately attached to their favorite streamers and why. And then maybe look into those whys. I know I seem adamant about this, but mental health is one of the issues that I care about the most. I just would like to know how much stuff like this really has an impact on people and how widespread it is. If the possible positives outweigh the possible negatives and vice-versa.

Girl does a couple of stupid things, hate groups decides to fuck up her life forever for it.

God man If I streamed all the weird impulses and things I say without thinking about it everybody would hate me forever. And saying sorry doesn't work on the internet either.

Fieldy409:
Girl does a couple of stupid things, hate groups decides to fuck up her life forever for it.

God man If I streamed all the weird impulses and things I say without thinking about it everybody would hate me forever. And saying sorry doesn't work on the internet either.

Really? People are upset at the double standards. The blatant favoritism. It needs to stop. Not just with Twitch but YouTube as well.

Fieldy409:
Girl does a couple of stupid things, hate groups decides to fuck up her life forever for it.

Let me fix this for you.

Grown-ass women who damn well ought to know better, who have been streaming for a good couple years bare minimum with consistent revenue streams in the high five figures bare minimum per month, have patterns of behavior that go back to the genesis of their fame, face well-deserved pushback for acting the damn fool on the internet, and their platform faces very well-deserved pushback for allowing the situation to devolve to the point it has for profit. Most of the women involved could probably retire right now, and if they have decent money smarts or a good accountant, live comfortably off the interest alone.

The only way this "fucks up lives forever" is if the women involved are both historically bad with money management, and are incapable of acting like god damn adults on their platforms.

Fieldy409:
Girl does a couple of stupid things, hate groups decides to fuck up her life forever for it.

God man If I streamed all the weird impulses and things I say without thinking about it everybody would hate me forever. And saying sorry doesn't work on the internet either.

You're point here is utterly stupid. Nobody is calling for her to be removed from Twitch completely. We are just saying that there should be a consequence for her shitty behavior. A 2-day ban, 7 day, 30 day, etc for stacking violations of ToS. The only reason these girls act like pieces of shit is because they get away with whatever they want. They wouldn't do this shit if they lost a week of stream-time, if they had to pay the price for being a terrible shit head.

Also if their streamer career was taken away, they could always go strip. They are basically 90% of the way there on their stream anyway.

Fieldy409:
Girl does a couple of stupid things, hate groups decides to fuck up her life forever for it.

God man If I streamed all the weird impulses and things I say without thinking about it everybody would hate me forever. And saying sorry doesn't work on the internet either.

Nobody changed their mind about them. Haters will hate and fans will still like them. Others will join in the memes but that's it. And no, I don't watch e-girl streamers, but even they deserve defending from outrage that's blown out of proportions.

And... I guess I have to admit I do enjoy the drama. So maybe I'm being played here.

McElroy:

Fieldy409:
Girl does a couple of stupid things, hate groups decides to fuck up her life forever for it.

God man If I streamed all the weird impulses and things I say without thinking about it everybody would hate me forever. And saying sorry doesn't work on the internet either.

Nobody changed their mind about them. Haters will hate and fans will still like them. Others will join in the memes but that's it. And no, I don't watch e-girl streamers, but even they deserve defending from outrage that's blown out of proportions.

And... I guess I have to admit I do enjoy the drama. So maybe I'm being played here.

That's how you get on the hook :)

McElroy:
...but even they deserve defending from outrage that's blown out of proportions.

Frankly, I used to have this opinion too. That is, until that whole ZombiUnicorn incident at E3 prompted me to finally give the "thot patrol" time of day enough to see what their grievances were. Since, I've 180'ed on the issue, because at the end of the day it is a handful of highly toxic streamers with proven track records of abhorrent conduct, who abuse gender and gender politics to distract from and excuse their behavior. As pertains to that group of individuals, no, the pushback and outrage isn't blown out of proportion, and neither is it necessarily borne from misogyny because they happen to be women.

Even then I don't believe outrage should be directed towards those women. They're making the most of a broken and corrupt platform that incentivizes toxic behavior. At the end of the day, fault lies with Twitch for cultivating an environment in which toxic personalities thrive while good-faith actors who know how to behave are more likely to fail than succeed.

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