[POLITICS] Trump-Ordered ICE Raid Leaves Children Crying

So parents are being arrested without any thought about where their children are or what is to happen with them.

Americans, have you seen what happened in Hong Kong where hundreds of thousands of people went to the street to protest? Have you seen how many imbeciles are talking about "storming area 51" on social media?

How about you guys gather a few thousand and march on detention centers or wherever these people are being detained?

bluegate:

So parents are being arrested without any thought about where their children are or what is to happen with them.

Americans, have you seen what happened in Hong Kong where hundreds of thousands of people went to the street to protest? Have you seen how many imbeciles are talking about "storming area 51" on social media?

How about you guys gather a few thousand and march on detention centers or wherever these people are being detained?

I believe the correct line is: "Finally we're a country of laws again."

Yeah, this isn't going to happen. It's why they're doing it now instead of 2 years ago. Helping people is now seen as a vice. All those people surrounding that truck a few weeks ago have been labelled as criminal and there have been plenty of demands to lock them up, as well as the alleged illegal immigrant.

And it's funny, because so many people predicated that this would happen. Wait, that's not funny at all...

EDIT: Apparently, they did this while kids were at school/ day care. Yet didn't organise people to pick them up later. Also, quite a few people were released immediately, suggesting they just picking up random people and sorting them out later.

trunkage:

EDIT: Apparently, they did this while kids were at school/ day care. Yet didn't organise people to pick them up later. Also, quite a few people were released immediately, suggesting they just picking up random people and sorting them out later.

They're releasing most people as they process them because they're not trying to deport all these people, they're building a case against the employers who were systematically breaking the law. It's possible that everyone will be released soon enough.

The last bit there is speculation by me, but what I do know is that your speculation is wrong. This sting followed a year of investigation and proper acquisition of warrants, everyone arrested was working there in violation of the law, including the people released immediately. They are just being released under their own recognizance. They were not just picking up random people.

bluegate:

How about you guys gather a few thousand and march on detention centers or wherever these people are being detained?

The people most adamant about stockpiling guns for literally this reason are ok with torturing children as long as they are brown.

They are literally ok with Trump putting children in concentration camps where they are tortured to death. None of this will sway them.

Punitive ICE raids against workers who successfully sued to workplace abuses.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-koch-foods/allegations-of-labor-abuses-dogged-mississippi-plant-years-before-immigration-raids-idUSKCN1UZ1OV
If you think they're building a case against management, you're naive

bluegate:

So parents are being arrested without any thought about where their children are or what is to happen with them.

Americans, have you seen what happened in Hong Kong where hundreds of thousands of people went to the street to protest? Have you seen how many imbeciles are talking about "storming area 51" on social media?

How about you guys gather a few thousand and march on detention centers or wherever these people are being detained?

Yes, human waves vs Ar-15s. Great plan.

altnameJag:
Punitive ICE raids against workers who successfully sued to workplace abuses.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-koch-foods/allegations-of-labor-abuses-dogged-mississippi-plant-years-before-immigration-raids-idUSKCN1UZ1OV
If you think they're building a case against management, you're naive

Do you genuinely think that a company invited an ICE raid, shutting down their facility, losing a huge percentage of their workforce, and smearing their own brand over national news, as revenge for a lawsuit they settled out of court? That's what you think happened?

In what world is that more plausible than the public reason: that investigations into these facilities started because they were knowingly hiring immigrants without work authorization. Like, by that article's account, these places were hiring illegal immigrants, taking advantage of them, and abusing them on the job in the past. And you think the employer called the raid on themselves.

Gergar12:

bluegate:

So parents are being arrested without any thought about where their children are or what is to happen with them.

Americans, have you seen what happened in Hong Kong where hundreds of thousands of people went to the street to protest? Have you seen how many imbeciles are talking about "storming area 51" on social media?

How about you guys gather a few thousand and march on detention centers or wherever these people are being detained?

Yes, human waves vs Ar-15s. Great plan.

I think I recall a similar scene in Enemy at the Gates. That didn't go over very well.

Ah well, at least that particular tactic for the Red Army is fictional.

bluegate:

So parents are being arrested without any thought about where their children are or what is to happen with them.

Americans, have you seen what happened in Hong Kong where hundreds of thousands of people went to the street to protest? Have you seen how many imbeciles are talking about "storming area 51" on social media?

How about you guys gather a few thousand and march on detention centers or wherever these people are being detained?

Honestly, ICE should be charged and sued for damages to the children for how they went about the raids and left children literally wandering the streets. Not all children even had people looking after them due to how they went about this and left children who walked home from school left wandering the stress locked out of their homes not even knowing what happened to their families. ICE neglected to ensure every child had someone from child services to look after them and provide them with necessary resources, access to their belongings in their home and counseling to help ease and cope with the trauma ICE was inflicting on them. Putting children through the traumatizing experience of having their parents missing, losing access to their home and everything they have ever known in this world like this should be considered torture and is cruel and unusual punishment. Even when police make arrests, they make sure the children of those that are being arrested are being looked after. This behavior and neglect is completely inexcusable.

Like the US foster care system needs more children for them to traffic into human trafficking in an already overloaded, abusive, poorly regulated and underfunded system. They are causing direct and often irreparable damage to these children though these mindless actions taking no care for their well being. I really do hope that ICE is at some point held accountable, but I see that as highly unlikely given the current nauseating political environment.

CM156:

I think I recall a similar scene in Enemy at the Gates. That didn't go over very well.

Yeah, but they had at least one bullet between two people, so there was a chance of success.

tstorm823:

altnameJag:
Punitive ICE raids against workers who successfully sued to workplace abuses.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-koch-foods/allegations-of-labor-abuses-dogged-mississippi-plant-years-before-immigration-raids-idUSKCN1UZ1OV
If you think they're building a case against management, you're naive

Do you genuinely think that a company invited an ICE raid, shutting down their facility, losing a huge percentage of their workforce, and smearing their own brand over national news, as revenge for a lawsuit they settled out of court? That's what you think happened?

In what world is that more plausible than the public reason: that investigations into these facilities started because they were knowingly hiring immigrants without work authorization. Like, by that article's account, these places were hiring illegal immigrants, taking advantage of them, and abusing them on the job in the past. And you think the employer called the raid on themselves.

That all depends. Did something happen that they need to cover up immediately by getting the asylum seekers deported? Maybe the owners offered themselves up to get a deal. It doesn't sound like ICE needed any evidence when it already had the evidence

trunkage:

That all depends. Did something happen that they need to cover up immediately by getting the asylum seekers deported? Maybe the owners offered themselves up to get a deal. It doesn't sound like ICE needed any evidence when it already had the evidence

Wat? Asylum seekers? People are asylum seekers when they come to the country to ask for asylum. They're not asylum seekers when they're already here with no intention of legitimizing their presence. I appreciate the use of the term "asylum seeker" in many occasions, it'd be absurd to call someone a trespasser because they knocked on your door asking to get out of the rain. You don't give that same credit if you find someone already in your house watching your tv.

At any rate, I unfortunately can't find good sources online because journalism is currently trash basically everywhere, but I had NPR on during my commute and heard more about this than the internet is willing to tell me. Apparently they had tips of hiring of illegal immigrants, and they pseudo-verified those tips using data from ankle monitors of people who had already been arrested and were released until their immigration court appearance, and happened to be working at these places. The trick is, that's not enough to make a charge against a company stick, they can say "they tricked us into thinking they were legal with fake documents" (companies have been known to actually advise illegal immigrants on how to make more convincing fakes before hiring them). And it sounded as though they had planted informants to get hard evidence that these sorts of practices took place, but even then the owners could dismiss that as their hiring managers breaking the law on their own and will still manage to avoid anything more on than a slap on the wrist for the company as a whole.

This is the part where I only have my memory of a radio interview as evidence, the reporter said she had been told by people released from custody that the people being held by ICE longer were those willing to say that the company knew they weren't allowed to be working when they were hired. Unfortunately, the internet doesn't care about the how and why of the raid itself because crying children are a more click-worthy headline. Mind you, this whole piece was not a defense of the raid. They were talking, in no uncertain terms, about how it was a messy operation that created tragedy for the people there. But I at least got enough information to be confident it wasn't a raid called in by businesses to have their own employees deported in mass. That's not a thing.

tstorm823:

At any rate, I unfortunately can't find good sources online

Then everything you say can be safely ignored.

erttheking:

Then everything you say can be safely ignored.

That's true, but not particularly meaningful commentary. This entire forum can be safely ignored, but we're here anyway. Perhaps consider making the most of it rather than disregard anything you feel you're allowed to.

tstorm823:

erttheking:

Then everything you say can be safely ignored.

That's true, but not particularly meaningful commentary. This entire forum can be safely ignored, but we're here anyway. Perhaps consider making the most of it rather than disregard anything you feel you're allowed to.

Not if they actually get sources to back up their claims. So...if you want people to take your claims seriously, you have a very clear path of action before you.

erttheking:

Not if they actually get sources to back up their claims. So...if you want people to take your claims seriously, you have a very clear path of action before you.

If you don't take my claims seriously, that's fine. Other people might. I hope they respond as well.

It's not as though I have nothing, all the articles telling people there are no charges against the employers bury the lead and tell you later there will be charges against the employers. Time Magazine:

However, federal court documents do mention several employment problems at the plants. Federal officials say evidence from electronic monitoring bracelets showed that people who had already been arrested for immigration violations, and others who were not allowed to work in the U.S. were working at all of the Mississippi plants raided. Documents unsealed Thursday in federal court allege that six of the seven plants were ?willfully and unlawfully? employing undocumented immigrants and two of them appeared to be actively participating in fraud.

Per the Associated Press:

Investigators allege the most brazen fraud took place at two smaller chicken processing plants ? PH Food Inc. in Morton and A&B Inc. in Pelahatchie. Sworn statements identify Huo You Liang of California, known to his Mississippi employees as Victor, as the owner of both.

A PH Food employee, acting as a confidential informant, told Homeland Security investigators that the vast majority of the 240 employees at PH?s plant in Morton and the 80 employees at A&B?s plant in Pelahatchie didn?t have proper work documents.

Asked whether employers may be charged in the case, a spokesperson at the Department of Justice said Friday in an emailed statement to TIME that ?law enforcement operations can take time?.

The only thing I can't find online is the part about holding onto those who were forward about legal status when they were hired. That's certainly just hearsay from your perspective. The rest is easily sourced information.

tstorm823:

It's not as though I have nothing, all the articles telling people there are no charges against the employers bury the lead and tell you later there will be charges against the employers.

See? That's better. Why didn't you start with this?

erttheking:

See? That's better. Why didn't you start with this?

Because that takes 2-3 times as long, and it's entirely possible people would be aware of these things themselves and engage with my opinions based on their knowledge.

tstorm823:

erttheking:

See? That's better. Why didn't you start with this?

Because that takes 2-3 times as long, and it's entirely possible people would be aware of these things themselves and engage with my opinions based on their knowledge.

Quality takes effort and time.

And why did you assume everyone would already know if you felt the need to cite a radio play?

tstorm823:

erttheking:

See? That's better. Why didn't you start with this?

Because that takes 2-3 times as long, and it's entirely possible people would be aware of these things themselves and engage with my opinions based on their knowledge.

Dude, if you're trying to make a point, you back up that point. Don't try to say its other people's fault that you can't be bothered doing your job. Have you never written any kind of essay?

erttheking:

Quality takes effort and time.

And why did you assume everyone would already know if you felt the need to cite a radio play?

I didn't assume everyone would already know what I was talking about. But most people who don't know what I'm talking about likely don't respond. And if this topic is important enough to someone to engage with me, they are a) going to be as informed as me, b) going to research on their own to see if I'm right or wrong, or c) going to ask me to source what I can. I didn't account for the rogue element that feels the need to comment "na-na-na-na, I'm not listening".

And like, all of this is a distraction anyway. If I could prove with absolute certainty that my understanding of events is indisputable fact, nobody is going to go "well I thought this raid was evil and hurting children, but now I think it's rainbows and butterflies." It would only get us as far as "well, it's not really motivated by evil, but it still hurt children!" Why try and lecture me first when you're going to argue about it anyway?

Palindromemordnilap:

Dude, if you're trying to make a point, you back up that point. Don't try to say its other people's fault that you can't be bothered doing your job. Have you never written any kind of essay?

If your user name isn't Lil devils x, you are not qualified to make this post.

tstorm823:

altnameJag:
Punitive ICE raids against workers who successfully sued to workplace abuses.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-koch-foods/allegations-of-labor-abuses-dogged-mississippi-plant-years-before-immigration-raids-idUSKCN1UZ1OV
If you think they're building a case against management, you're naive

snip

Some workers at the Mississippi plant who lacked legal immigration status alleged in court documents that supervisors threatened to turn them in to authorities if they spoke out about their concerns.

They already were fully smeared by the accusations and were due to pay millions of dollars to the meployees in a court settlement. This is just them cutting their loses; and sadly there are enough anti-immigration supporters to defend this vile act.

tstorm823:

erttheking:

Quality takes effort and time.

And why did you assume everyone would already know if you felt the need to cite a radio play?

I didn't assume everyone would already know what I was talking about. But most people who don't know what I'm talking about likely don't respond. And if this topic is important enough to someone to engage with me, they are a) going to be as informed as me, b) going to research on their own to see if I'm right or wrong, or c) going to ask me to source what I can. I didn't account for the rogue element that feels the need to comment "na-na-na-na, I'm not listening".

And like, all of this is a distraction anyway. If I could prove with absolute certainty that my understanding of events is indisputable fact, nobody is going to go "well I thought this raid was evil and hurting children, but now I think it's rainbows and butterflies." It would only get us as far as "well, it's not really motivated by evil, but it still hurt children!" Why try and lecture me first when you're going to argue about it anyway?

Palindromemordnilap:

Dude, if you're trying to make a point, you back up that point. Don't try to say its other people's fault that you can't be bothered doing your job. Have you never written any kind of essay?

If your user name isn't Lil devils x, you are not qualified to make this post.

Do you think trying to double down helps? Remember, this started with you admitting that you were choosing to believe one source despite every other source telling you otherwise. Do you genuinely not see how you may need to explain or back that up?

Palindromemordnilap:

Do you think trying to double down helps? Remember, this started with you admitting that you were choosing to believe one source despite every other source telling you otherwise. Do you genuinely not see how you may need to explain or back that up?

No source has told me otherwise. All other sources say that some parents were released immediately, other people had been released over time, and others were still being held onto. What I heard on the radio expanded on the information, it did not contradict any other source.

CaitSeith:

They already were fully smeared by the accusations and were due to pay millions of dollars to the meployees in a court settlement. This is just them cutting their loses; and sadly there are enough anti-immigration supporters to defend this vile act.

The court settlement was more than just money, there were also court orders on how the the companies were meant to behave. Literally the sentence before that quote you pulled out:

The company settled the allegations last year by paying $3.75 million and entering a three-year consent decree to prevent future violations.

"Yeah, we'll get back at those darn illegals that we aggressively employ for making us settle with them out of court... by violating the settlement and then calling the cops on ourselves so that we're right back in court! It's the perfect plan."

If the companies were hiring and abusing immigrants, and those immigrants had already sued the company, and ICE said the tips that they were still violating the law came from employees (who we already know were speaking out enough to sue the company), and the raid was on I think 7 different facilities owned by more than one corporation, why would you assume the raid was called in by the business? There is literally no reason to think that except cynicism.

tstorm823:

Palindromemordnilap:

Do you think trying to double down helps? Remember, this started with you admitting that you were choosing to believe one source despite every other source telling you otherwise. Do you genuinely not see how you may need to explain or back that up?

No source has told me otherwise. All other sources say that some parents were released immediately, other people had been released over time, and others were still being held onto. What I heard on the radio expanded on the information, it did not contradict any other source.

CaitSeith:

They already were fully smeared by the accusations and were due to pay millions of dollars to the meployees in a court settlement. This is just them cutting their loses; and sadly there are enough anti-immigration supporters to defend this vile act.

The court settlement was more than just money, there were also court orders on how the the companies were meant to behave. Literally the sentence before that quote you pulled out:

The company settled the allegations last year by paying $3.75 million and entering a three-year consent decree to prevent future violations.

"Yeah, we'll get back at those darn illegals that we aggressively employ for making us settle with them out of court... by violating the settlement and then calling the cops on ourselves so that we're right back in court! It's the perfect plan."

If the companies were hiring and abusing immigrants, and those immigrants had already sued the company, and ICE said the tips that they were still violating the law came from employees (who we already know were speaking out enough to sue the company), and the raid was on I think 7 different facilities owned by more than one corporation, why would you assume the raid was called in by the business? There is literally no reason to think that except cynicism.

Sorry, but corporate world is as cynical as it can get.

tstorm823:

Palindromemordnilap:

Do you think trying to double down helps? Remember, this started with you admitting that you were choosing to believe one source despite every other source telling you otherwise. Do you genuinely not see how you may need to explain or back that up?

No source has told me otherwise. All other sources say that some parents were released immediately, other people had been released over time, and others were still being held onto. What I heard on the radio expanded on the information, it did not contradict any other source.

Yeah see thats the point I'm getting at. No other source told you that. So if this information is coming from one single source that you only happened to hear, why on earth would you think you wouldn't have to explain that? Why on earth would you not think you had to back that up and explain it like erttheking told you to?

 

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