[Politics] Yang Gang 2020

I'm here to shill for Andrew Yang, because he is basically the only guy who understands that we are in the middle of an economic transition to automation and we will have to use universal base income to help with the transition. He is the only candidate with the most policy proposals and is the perfect outsider to address so many things wrong with the current system. I know the DNC will undermine him, but it is good that someone is finally making UBI a mainstream murican discussion.



On the one hand, reasoned political discussion on the nature of UBI and how effective it actually is in buoying the poor.

On the other hand, NEETbux!

Universal Basic Income only makes sense when there are also stricter price controls stopping companies from just raising prices in accordance to it. Which would only work long term if one was to nationalize large parts of the private sector. Which, you know, I'd absolutely support but I don't find it very likely.

I don't trust how popular he is with Libertarians.

He has a lot of great Ideas, however, supporting him is a futile effort as he won't be elected. Outside of him being too much of an outlier at this point, his support of UBI will prevent him from being elected. I do hope that he is able to get some of his ideas onto the democratic platform, that is likely the best we can expect from his run at this point. I am not saying to not support him, just be prepared to throw those votes behind another candidate before it is all said and done.

UBI is a nice idea, but from what I can tell, it's all that Yang's riding on.

Not that I can even vote of course, but far as I'm concerned, my hopes for the US 2020 elections are:

1) Get rid of Trump

2) Do something about the climate crisis

Pick your issues for third, fourth, and beyond place, but with Yang having a defeatist attitude towards point 2, I'd generally favour other candidates (though who I'm not sure, and again, doesn't technically matter for me).

He's an interesting candidate, definitely serious in his thinking about policy. UBI is an interesting idea and would definitely provide a lot of people with a lot more easily comprehensible security which is both materially and psychologically good.

Though I don't like the fact that his UBI is supposed to replace other elements of the social safety net. I don't think you can live in the US from 1000 dollars a month and if you are disabled or need food stamps, taking that away for a 1000 dollars a month seems like you'd still not have enough. In addition, part of the appeal of UBI is that it is unconditional, and this one apparently kind of isn't. Another major downside of UBI is that it addresses the worst excesses of inequality but not its causes. Warren's and Sanders' plans to increase the minimum wage, have a wealth tax and institute some form of codeterminacy to give workers more power over the place they work seem like they would better address the causes of the problems in the US. As for the robots, people have been speaking about automation destroying jobs since the industrial revolution and it doesn't seem to have happened so far. Keynes thought we'd be working 15 hour weeks by now.

I'm being a bit negative now, but all in all he is certainly a very good candidate. He won't win, but I applaud his efforts to push some of his specific policies into the mainstream. This might lay the groundwork for more serious discussion about UBI and the like in the future.

Saelune:
I don't trust how popular he is with Libertarians.

He has a lot of ex trump voters as well.

Seems a bit one-sided. Who is the ying to his yang?

Marik2:

Saelune:
I don't trust how popular he is with Libertarians.

He has a lot of ex trump voters as well.

That's what I said.

I like Yang but he has no chance. Even if he did somehow manage to find a genie and get the nomination, I don't think he would win. He comes off as timid and I think trump would just roll over and meme against him too easily. I think Yang would make a good VP or secretary of state.

Realistically we are going to be stuck with Biden. I would really prefer Warren though or I suppose Burnie.

Worgen:
I like Yang but he has no chance. Even if he did somehow manage to find a genie and get the nomination, I don't think he would win. He comes off as timid and I think trump would just roll over and meme against him too easily. I think Yang would make a good VP or secretary of state.

Realistically we are going to be stuck with Biden. I would really prefer Warren though or I suppose Burnie.

I dunno every time Biden opens his mouth he loses support. Hopefully he will lose enough support he eventually drops out. I am hoping Warren keeps up her momentum. Biden can't seem to get over his "foot in mouth" issues.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/28/joe-biden-fundraising-2020-1389857
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/biden-tells-minority-voters-in-iowa-that-poor-kids-are-just-as-bright-as-white-kids/2019/08/09/4926be02-ba8e-11e9-a091-6a96e67d9cce_story.html
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/08/joe-biden-gaffe-vice-president-parkland-shooting.html
https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-gaffes-quotes-2020-election-1323905
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/26/biden-2020-fundraiser-switches-to-kamala-harris.html

It would have been better if Biden had never run tbh.

Lil devils x:

Worgen:
I like Yang but he has no chance. Even if he did somehow manage to find a genie and get the nomination, I don't think he would win. He comes off as timid and I think trump would just roll over and meme against him too easily. I think Yang would make a good VP or secretary of state.

Realistically we are going to be stuck with Biden. I would really prefer Warren though or I suppose Burnie.

I dunno every time Biden opens his mouth he loses support. Hopefully he will lose enough support he eventually drops out. I am hoping Warren keeps up her momentum. Biden can't seem to get over his "foot in mouth" issues.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/28/joe-biden-fundraising-2020-1389857
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/biden-tells-minority-voters-in-iowa-that-poor-kids-are-just-as-bright-as-white-kids/2019/08/09/4926be02-ba8e-11e9-a091-6a96e67d9cce_story.html
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/08/joe-biden-gaffe-vice-president-parkland-shooting.html
https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-gaffes-quotes-2020-election-1323905
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/26/biden-2020-fundraiser-switches-to-kamala-harris.html

It would have been better if Biden had never run tbh.

I would have prefered if he didn't run either, I mean the guy is like 76, decent chance that even if he won he wouldn't survive the full term. Plus, hes a pretty moderate candidate, I would much rather have a more progressive one, even if their economic policy is kinda ehh. But, I have doubts as to if he would fail enough to lose out on the nomination, he did bad during the first debate but from everything I hear, he did way better in the second.

Worgen:

Lil devils x:

Worgen:
I like Yang but he has no chance. Even if he did somehow manage to find a genie and get the nomination, I don't think he would win. He comes off as timid and I think trump would just roll over and meme against him too easily. I think Yang would make a good VP or secretary of state.

Realistically we are going to be stuck with Biden. I would really prefer Warren though or I suppose Burnie.

I dunno every time Biden opens his mouth he loses support. Hopefully he will lose enough support he eventually drops out. I am hoping Warren keeps up her momentum. Biden can't seem to get over his "foot in mouth" issues.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/28/joe-biden-fundraising-2020-1389857
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/biden-tells-minority-voters-in-iowa-that-poor-kids-are-just-as-bright-as-white-kids/2019/08/09/4926be02-ba8e-11e9-a091-6a96e67d9cce_story.html
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/08/joe-biden-gaffe-vice-president-parkland-shooting.html
https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-gaffes-quotes-2020-election-1323905
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/26/biden-2020-fundraiser-switches-to-kamala-harris.html

It would have been better if Biden had never run tbh.

I would have prefered if he didn't run either, I mean the guy is like 76, decent chance that even if he won he wouldn't survive the full term. Plus, hes a pretty moderate candidate, I would much rather have a more progressive one, even if their economic policy is kinda ehh. But, I have doubts as to if he would fail enough to lose out on the nomination, he did bad during the first debate but from everything I hear, he did way better in the second.

I am hoping for another Obama election with Warren, as in, I want Warren. I remember thinking 'Who the fuck is Obama? He has no chance', but then he won.

Saelune:

Worgen:

Lil devils x:

I dunno every time Biden opens his mouth he loses support. Hopefully he will lose enough support he eventually drops out. I am hoping Warren keeps up her momentum. Biden can't seem to get over his "foot in mouth" issues.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/28/joe-biden-fundraising-2020-1389857
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/biden-tells-minority-voters-in-iowa-that-poor-kids-are-just-as-bright-as-white-kids/2019/08/09/4926be02-ba8e-11e9-a091-6a96e67d9cce_story.html
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/08/joe-biden-gaffe-vice-president-parkland-shooting.html
https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-gaffes-quotes-2020-election-1323905
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/26/biden-2020-fundraiser-switches-to-kamala-harris.html

It would have been better if Biden had never run tbh.

I would have prefered if he didn't run either, I mean the guy is like 76, decent chance that even if he won he wouldn't survive the full term. Plus, hes a pretty moderate candidate, I would much rather have a more progressive one, even if their economic policy is kinda ehh. But, I have doubts as to if he would fail enough to lose out on the nomination, he did bad during the first debate but from everything I hear, he did way better in the second.

I am hoping for another Obama election with Warren, as in, I want Warren. I remember thinking 'Who the fuck is Obama? He has no chance', but then he won.

I have been following Warren for a good number of years now, that was why I had wanted her, rather than Hillary to run in 2016.

Saelune:
I don't trust how popular he is with Libertarians.

He's popular with Libertarians?

Leg End:

Saelune:
I don't trust how popular he is with Libertarians.

He's popular with Libertarians?

And ex trump supporters.

Marik2:

Leg End:

Saelune:
I don't trust how popular he is with Libertarians.

He's popular with Libertarians?

And ex trump supporters.

Having looked through his policies on the site I'm struggling to see what these groups are getting pulled in by.

Shadowstar38:

Marik2:

Leg End:
He's popular with Libertarians?

And ex trump supporters.

Having looked through his policies on the site I'm struggling to see what these groups are getting pulled in by.

Money, and that about a good chunk of Donald supporters are starting to change their view now that they saw he's not a good president.

Marik2:

And ex trump supporters.

Do you have a source or... where are you seeing he's popular with Libertarians? Ex-Trump, I can get. But Libertarians?

Leg End:

Marik2:

And ex trump supporters.

Do you have a source or... where are you seeing he's popular with Libertarians? Ex-Trump, I can get. But Libertarians?

He has repeatedly said on interviews that he has gotten donations from libertarians.

https://theoutline.com/post/7214/andrew-yang-campaign-alt-right?zd=1&zi=5bgc5fo3

Leg End:

Saelune:
I don't trust how popular he is with Libertarians.

He's popular with Libertarians?

As far as the choices amongst Democrats anyways.

Marik2:

He has repeatedly said on interviews that he has gotten donations from libertarians.

https://theoutline.com/post/7214/andrew-yang-campaign-alt-right?zd=1&zi=5bgc5fo3

Unless I missed something, I don't see anything on that page in relation to that, and his support looks pretty minimal. I can however see it in regards to...

Saelune:
As far as the choices amongst Democrats anyways.

Which makes enough sense, and I personally do give him points for even mentioning Automation. The issue is that the rest of his policies reeeaaalllly don't favor Libertarianism(and even his take with Automation is a long discussion). I will say though that from my perspective, I can sit and talk with the man, even if I disagree with him on... most points, probably. Or rather, his solutions to problems. I don't think I could last five minutes in a room with anyone besides him or Bernie.

Personally, I prefer Chairman Sheng-ji Yang. (Foreman Domai, of course, is better than both.)

UBI is a good thing, but Yang has for whatever reason decided that various existing programs should depend on not accepting it-- which makes it pretty much not a UBI. Or if it is, then it's also coinciding with a massive cut to other social programs. Either way, not great. What's more, he isn't the kind of candidate who will do what is necessary to keep prices reasonable so that the money won't just end up increasing the profits of landlords and others who sell necessary resources, goods, and services.

When asked about climate change, Yang proposed that people use their Yang bucks to get to higher ground as a solution. That might make sense for the several seconds it may take to think about why it doesn't make much sense, but it doesn't after that. And that appeared to be his entire climate plan: people can move to avoid sea level rise!

If you unironically like capitalism and want to see it stabilized just enough that the red revolution can be crushed when the time comes, and you don't care too much about weather that will eventually threaten the collapse of civilization as we know it, then you might think Yang is a good candidate. Otherwise... (long, drawn-out fart noise)

Pseudonym:
I don't think you can live in the US from 1000 dollars a month

You can, just not definitely not alone and probably not in a major city. Get a roommate or two, move outside the city and suddenly it becomes a lot more doable.

Where I live, my mortgage payment, homeowner's insurance, and property taxes work out to ~700/month, for a 1400 sq ft 3 bed/2 bath somewhere flat in a fairly safe neighborhood that's comparatively urban (there's nothing that counts as a "real" city in WV) and in the 500 year floodplain. In the worst parts of summer and winter, my electric bill is just over $200/m (around 150 in milder weather), and water and sewer have typically been around $70/m each. Water/sewer would be cheaper if it were just me (fianc? likes baths and tripled the amount of laundry done - all my clothes can be washed together, not so for hers), but it's two people and two animals.

If we both had the Freedom Dividend (what Yang calls his UBI plan) we could pay our bills and feed ourselves without issue. We'd probably still have to work, but that's mostly because we both have cars, and pets are expensive, and we like to go out occasionally and the like, and we'd want some emergency funds, and there's always something that needs fixed or improved around the house, etc. It wouldn't be "keep your job or be out on the street starving", which means that one or both of us would have a lot more breathing room to look for something better. Realistically, we'd both continue to work and most of the time put nearly all of the Freedom Dividend into either home improvements or savings.

But if we had to, we could manage to live on the Freedom Dividend we'd just have to tighten our belts.

Pseudonym:
and if you are disabled or need food stamps, taking that away for a 1000 dollars a month seems like you'd still not have enough.

Yang's plan for the Freedom Dividend includes that you can continue receiving your current benefits if you prefer, you just can't receive your current benefits in addition to the Freedom Dividend. The goal being to reduce or remove many of those programs in the long run, though not immediately.

Pseudonym:
In addition, part of the appeal of UBI is that it is unconditional, and this one apparently kind of isn't.

Are you complaining that it doesn't apply to children, that it doesn't apply to non-citizens, or that you can elect to receive your existing benefits instead of it?

Pseudonym:
As for the robots, people have been speaking about automation destroying jobs since the industrial revolution and it doesn't seem to have happened so far.

The difference here is that a lot of the positions likely to be automated within the next 20 years aren't going to open up a similar number of jobs that can't be automated, whether through new industry or through expanding the market.

I do think this guy can make it far in the primaries, but the DNC will just give the nomination to Warren. If they were smart about it, they could make him vice president to secure more votes. Right now, all I care about is his policies should get the attention it deserves. I just want Biden to gtfo cuz he looks like a complete centrist tool.

Worgen:
Realistically we are going to be stuck with Biden. I would really prefer Warren though or I suppose Burnie.

Biden keeps having foot in mouth "senior moments" that keep hurting his support. Though you can tell that the media keeps overtly pushing Biden as Democrat candidate of choice.

But "Poor kids are just as bright and just as talented as white kids" is going to follow him. So is "kids from Parkland came up to see me when I was vice president." Neither is what "I'm going to put a lot of coal miners out of business" was to Clinton in Appalachia, but they aren't going to help him.

Yang, like Bernie did last time, seems to only get more popular every time he gets to speak.

Worgen:
He comes off as timid

He actually called them out after the first debate - apparently when it wasn't his turn to speak they had him muted (but didn't do this to other candidates), so he couldn't interject like the other candidates and actually be heard. That sort of thing definitely reinforces the "meek" or "timid" image that keeps getting applied to him. I do agree though, he'd probably do better as VP or cabinet, at least for now. Sanders/Yang would likely turn out the vote in several parts of MAGA country, and the solidly blue states are going to go blue anyways.

Saelune:
I don't trust how popular he is with Libertarians.

You don't want a candidate that's only popular with groups that are already going to vote Democrat regardless of the candidate. That's how you get an election where the Democrat loses the election but wins the popular vote by a margin that's smaller than her margin in California.

Shadowstar38:
Having looked through his policies on the site I'm struggling to see what these groups are getting pulled in by.

The main thing both of those groups have in common - a rejection of the political establishment as it stood before Trump's election. For a lot of now ex-Trump supporters Trump was a rejection of the political establishment and Clinton was an embodiment of it. His failure to (in his own words) "drain the swamp" and in fact reinforcing it instead will have driven a bunch of those folks away and Yang (and also Sanders) represent a less absurd (and more well thought out) example of the same.

Also in the case of Libertarians specifically, UBI is a massive improvement over a large federal minimum wage hike in that instead of putting a larger cost on small businesses that will reduce hiring at the bottom of the economy it basically injects funds at the bottom of the economy and let's the market decide who wins and loses, which as far as social programs go is more appealing to them.

Marik2:
I do think this guy can make it far in the primaries, but the DNC will just give the nomination to Warren. If they were smart about it, they could make him vice president to secure more votes. Right now, all I care about is his policies should get the attention it deserves. I just want Biden to gtfo cuz he looks like a complete centrist tool.

I am more worried they will give it to Biden because they have been bending over backwards to make him look better than he is. Warren is going to need a lot more support to get that far, so I am hoping that some of these other guys (including your guy yang here) drop out and throw their weight behind Warren just so we don't get Biden.

Warren has a lot of good, well thought out plans that will actually work. She is most likely the smartest candidate we have running at this point. She comes from a lower middle class family and is an expert in middle class finance and bankruptcy so she fully understands what families are actually dealing with and what perils our economy faces in our coming future. She has proposed "aggressive intervention" to create jobs that also combat climate change along with a host of programs to help the middle and lower class get ahead. Warren tackles homelessness and poverty from multiple angles, not just throw money at it and expect it to sort itself out, it won't, it is well beyond that point due to so many pressures at once. She believes in a big safety net addressing the numerous problems so that a UBI will be less needed:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/04/us/politics/elizabeth-warren-economy-jobs.html
https://nlihc.org/resource/senator-warren-introduces-bold-affordable-housing-bill
https://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Elizabeth_Warren_Welfare_+_Poverty.htm
https://www.masslive.com/politics/2019/07/sen-elizabeth-warren-rep-al-lawson-introduce-bill-expanding-food-stamps-to-low-income-college-students.html
https://www.clasp.org/blog/senators-urge-colleagues-expand-child-care-assistance-working-families

Instead of giving everyone UBI, they would give more to those that need help the most, including financial assistance where needed:

"I'm not opposed to the existing programs, but we need so much more," Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) told HuffPost this week. "I don't want to see us fight for incremental changes when we have a chance to make big changes.?"

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/democrats-have-bold-ideas-for-new-social-programs-what-about-the-old-ones_n_5d03decee4b0dc17ef09870f

It isn't that I am opposed to Yang's UBI push, it is just I don't think it has a chance in hell of happening any time soon nor are his plans comprehensive enough to actually solve the problems. What good does UBI do if you still cannot afford to survive due to it not being enough to keep up with the cost of living? Still being homeless or starving even with UBI isn't helping much. You would need the UBI in addition to Warrens programs for it to even put a dent in the problem rather than having it as an either/or issue.

My main worry about so many people on the field is it splits the support too thin for others and will guarantee Biden gets in instead.

Pseudonym:
I don't think you can live in the US from 1000 dollars a month and if you are disabled or need food stamps, taking that away for a 1000 dollars a month seems like you'd still not have enough.

I lived on less than that as a student in the mid-1990s; inflation and currency adjusted it was about $10-11k in today's dollars. It wouldn't be comfortable, it might be hopelessly inadequate in certain parts with higher living costs, and people may have all sorts of needs (often health related) which may send them well over, but as a baseline it's probably doable.

Schadrach:

Saelune:
I don't trust how popular he is with Libertarians.

You don't want a candidate that's only popular with groups that are already going to vote Democrat regardless of the candidate. That's how you get an election where the Democrat loses the election but wins the popular vote by a margin that's smaller than her margin in California.

My concern is that they are liked by people for having shitty views.

Democrats lost cause the US is not a Democracy. Anyone who claims Hillary isnt president for any other reason is just objectively wrong. Hillary got more votes, and now Trump is even less popular. I do not doubt Trump will get way fewer votes than whoever we put up, the question is, will the people who actually pick the President side with the country?

Saelune:

Schadrach:

Saelune:
I don't trust how popular he is with Libertarians.

You don't want a candidate that's only popular with groups that are already going to vote Democrat regardless of the candidate. That's how you get an election where the Democrat loses the election but wins the popular vote by a margin that's smaller than her margin in California.

My concern is that they are liked by people for having shitty views.

Democrats lost cause the US is not a Democracy. Anyone who claims Hillary isnt president for any other reason is just objectively wrong. Hillary got more votes, and now Trump is even less popular. I do not doubt Trump will get way fewer votes than whoever we put up, the question is, will the people who actually pick the President side with the country?

If the United States was a democracy, it wouldn't have been either of those fools.

I don't like the idea of a businessman that is unqualified running the US. Oh, wait.

He's only marginally better than the new-age hippie, pseudoscience, vaccine-denying, crystals will heal you, Marianne Williamson.

People like to act like celebrities are this genius, and while some have good dietary habits and cool kitchen appliances.

Lots of them enable pseudoscience idiots like Deepak Chopra and "Dr" Oz who peddles snake-oil pills.

America used to be smart(We use to read the newspaper, and when people couldn't even read in other countries), and it still is in most ways, but some or most of the people in Hollywood are complete morons.

Now onto to Yang, his UBI is regressive in that it gives rich people money, and working-class people money. A negative income tax would be better, and less costly, but then again where would the people who want money to do nothing at home while their parents are already rich. (white incels)

Gergar12:
I don't like the idea of a businessman that is unqualified running the US. Oh, wait.

One of the fundamental problems with these guys is too many seem to think that because they were so successful in X, they must be good at everything.

But it's not just them, it's similarly a problem with the public: they also seem to have this idea that there are people who are smart and talented, and whether you put them at the helm of a property development outfit, government, or scientific research institute, the results will flow. In particular with businessmen, there's the enduring myth that a successful businessman will understand the economy. It's utter bullshit. Vast amounts of the stuff involved in running a business is nothing like understanding the economy.

Schadrach:

Pseudonym:
I don't think you can live in the US from 1000 dollars a month

You can, just not definitely not alone and probably not in a major city. Get a roommate or two, move outside the city and suddenly it becomes a lot more doable.

Agema:

Pseudonym:
I don't think you can live in the US from 1000 dollars a month and if you are disabled or need food stamps, taking that away for a 1000 dollars a month seems like you'd still not have enough.

I lived on less than that as a student in the mid-1990s; inflation and currency adjusted it was about $10-11k in today's dollars. It wouldn't be comfortable, it might be hopelessly inadequate in certain parts with higher living costs, and people may have all sorts of needs (often health related) which may send them well over, but as a baseline it's probably doable.

I'll take your word for it, As I'm currently living on a similar amount of money and doing fairly alright. But if you are disabled, or ended up a single parent, or you have medical bills or are in some other situation where you'd need government aid, a 1000 a month might leave you in a lot of trouble. There are people in the US making more than that who live in their car or who ration food or medicine.

Schadrach:

Pseudonym:
and if you are disabled or need food stamps, taking that away for a 1000 dollars a month seems like you'd still not have enough.

Yang's plan for the Freedom Dividend includes that you can continue receiving your current benefits if you prefer, you just can't receive your current benefits in addition to the Freedom Dividend. The goal being to reduce or remove many of those programs in the long run, though not immediately.

Pseudonym:
In addition, part of the appeal of UBI is that it is unconditional, and this one apparently kind of isn't.

Are you complaining that it doesn't apply to children, that it doesn't apply to non-citizens, or that you can elect to receive your existing benefits instead of it?

The latter one. Thing is, I like government programs that are there to help people to be simple and without too many hoops and exceptions. That is the main draw of a UBI for me, everyone would have at least a certain minimum that they don't need to stress about or do work for. That provides a certain amount of safety. Under Yangs plan, there are inbuilt exceptions, that will harm those who need it the most. It's still a pretty good plan, but I think it would be better if it didn't have those exceptions.

 

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