Why are people so dumb about veganism?

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https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/burger-meat-vegan-plant-based-hybrid-brewdog-twitter-reaction-a9142676.html

Long story short brewdog have released a "vegan" burger that also has a beef Patty on it and people are angry. Obviously it's a weird move but their goal is too encourage people to try plant based alternatives. By easing into it. Also, and here's the big thing, you don't have to be a vegan to eat vegan food. Someone asked why you would put vegan cheese on a beef burger to which I'm sure my lactose intolerant friend would inform them that he does it so he can eat a cheeseburger without shitting gravy.

I work in a cafe and of the 3 shelves of cakes and pastries we have half of the smallest shelf has a range of vegan cakes. And people lose their minds. One of them is a peanut butter cup! It's almost easier to make a vegan version of that. Like these people realise that their black coffee is vegan right? What's with the attitude of I'm not vegan so I won't eat anything labelled vegan?

Then there was the time Piers Morgan went ballistic on television because M&S made a vegan version of one of their popular sweets. This is a man who calls other people snowflakes blowing his lid because there's a vegan version of a jelly that he himself says he doesn't eat. Saying that if vegans want sweets they can have "kale nicies". Because everyone knows vegans only eat raw vegetables... And never eat things like popcorn, dark chocolate, potato chips, cake, sorbet or God knows how many others.

I'm also tired of being told by people that you need meat to be healthy. You can be healthy as a carnivore, a vegetarian or a vegan, as long as you eat the right amounts of healthy food and make sure you're getting necessary nutrients. But the people telling me that we need meat are almost universally overweight and unhealthy. Most people eat meat and... Well actually most people are unhealthy but I've never met a healthy meat eater who is aggressively anti-vegan food, probably because most healthy people realise that you shouldn't have a serving of meat and dairy with every meal of the day. Unless you're Jordan Peterson and you believe you should only eat meat all day every day like your colon has wronged you in some way and must be punished

SNL had a quick joke on weekend update about how vegan food is unpopular even though Gregg's in the UK have seen a massive surge in profits since introducing a vegan sausage roll and some of the fastest growing companies are producers of vegan meat alternatives.

My brother was a vegan when I was 10 and I remember people saying that veganism is just a fad, almost 20 years later and it's more popular than ever and everyone is still saying it's a fad.

So what are your thoughts on veganism? And aggressively anti-vegan folk? I get being annoyed by preachy vegans or those idiots spraying fake blood and picketing fast food places and supermarkets but why do people see the label vegan and lose their minds?

For balance here's a div who tried to sue her neighbor for having a BBQ:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-australia-49560208

Because just like you can be healthy as a meat eater or vegan, you can also be an asshole as either

For the record I'm vegetarian not vegan purely because when be i started losing weight and getting in shape I found it easier to get all my macro and micro nutrients, eat until I was full and still come in at my calories goal.

CheetoDust:

So what are your thoughts on veganism? And aggressively anti-vegan folk? I get being annoyed by preachy vegans or those idiots spraying fake blood and picketing fast food places and supermarkets but why do people see the label vegan and lose their minds?

-I think veganism is a good thing, objectively speaking. The question of health aside, if you're a vegan, you're not eating animals, or using animal products. So, less animal deaths, less animal suffering, and a smaller carbon footprint.

-Anti-vegan folk and aggressive vegans are two sides of the same coin for me. Anti-vegans, to me, are people who know vegans have a point, but can't handle it, so lash out. Aggressive vegans are just as bad because they're so smug about their vegan 'identity,' and look down on anyone who isn't.

Extra thoughts aside, here's my take on veganism/vegetarianism. I don't have any moral objections to people eating animals. Plenty of animals eat animals on this planet, and humans have eaten animals for hundreds of thousands of years. There's an argument to be made that as sapient beings, we have the moral capacity to choose not to eat them, but even then, if someone's living a subsistance lifestyle, I think it's a bit rich for wealthy people to say that they shouldn't. However, what is undoubtedly a problem is our current system of agriculture - animal agriculture (e.g. cattle) is one of the lead drivers of deforestation. Factory farming is cruel. My current concerns are more for the overall state of the planet than individual animal welfare admittedly, because there's only so much land available, and a lot of that land could be used to feed people directly rather than using it for livestock feed (e.g. soy).

Bottom line for me is that I still eat meat, but focus on meat with a low carbon footprint (e.g. chicken and fish, as opposed to beef or pork). Admittedly, that's like, basic level actions for both animal welfare and carbon footprint stuff, so as high-horsey as vegans can be, I can't really criticize them because they've got a point.

CheetoDust:
I'm also tired of being told by people that you need meat to be healthy.

Purely incidentally, I know it isn't the case for the vast majority of people who will do fine on a vegan diet, but a friend of mine did have to eat meat. She went vegan, and she followed all the right nutritional guidance, and she gradually became more and more unwell. Eventually her GP told her she needed to start eating meat again, so she did and the problems went away. Christ only knows what was going on, but that's what it was for her.

* * *

I have no strong feelings about veganism. Personally, I like meat and I don't see a problem with eating meat. I have issues with maltreatment of animals, excessive use of antibiotics in livestock, I appreciate environmental concerns and I think people on average could and should eat less meat. However, fundamentally we're omnivores set up to eat meat, it's all perfectly natural, and with due care shouldn't be unethical or unusually burdensome for the planet. I'm happy with the prospect of vat-grown meat (when it's developed and cost effective).

I think in general terms one of the potential issues is that a great number of people aren't terribly well educated or informed, and there is a substantial risk that they will not know properly what they should eat for a good vegan diet, and we need to consider the risk of them suffering certain forms of malnutrition.

CheetoDust:
Then there was the time Piers Morgan went ballistic on television because

Because it's his job. His sole purpose in life is being angry and getting other people to be angry at literally anything he can. Especially at anything that looks remotely lefty.

But, getting back on topic, eh, Piers Morgan isn't required for people to freak out at stuff like this. Easier and comfortable to be vaguely outraged at whatever.

I'm not against veganism (or at the least, vegetarianism), as long as those people aren't aggressively pushy about it. While I prefer meat myself, I'm not opposed to a vegetable alternative ever now and then...

Agema:
Purely incidentally, I know it isn't the case for the vast majority of people who will do fine on a vegan diet, but a friend of mine did have to eat meat. She went vegan, and she followed all the right nutritional guidance, and she gradually became more and more unwell. Eventually her GP told her she needed to start eating meat again, so she did and the problems went away. Christ only knows what was going on, but that's what it was for her.

It was likely vitamin B12 deficiency. Human bodies can't make B12 on their own, and it's only naturally found in significant quantities in meat and animal products (especially organ meat).

However, things like fortified cereal and nondairy milk mean that most vegans can get enough B12 in their diet. Those who can't can also take supplements, which for most people should provide enough.

However, B12 deficiency is extremely common even in non-vegans. Many people who are currently not taking supplements really should be, and even people with diets high in B12 can be deficient because they can't naturally absorb enough. There is absolutely no reason to let B12 prevent you from going vegan save a perceived stigma about supplements being "unnatural". Nothing about modern meat production is natural either.

Overall, I agree that people should be encouraged to switch to a primarily plant based diet even if they still eat meat. It's healthier, and much, much better for the environment. However, it's also important to recognise that most vegans are ethical vegans. Describing a burger with animal products as "half vegan" is a bit insulting. I get that the message is that vegan alternatives are not just inferior versions of animal based products, and I like that message, but eating vegan alternatives while still eating meat does not make you vegan, or even "half vegan". It's a good and responsible move for your health and for the planet, but it's not vegan.

In general, I feel vegans have a right to be a bit preachy because their lifestyle is objectively better in so many ways. However, one trend that annoys me is Western vegans who spends a lot of their time complaining about meat consumption in non-Western countries. Sure Karen, people in the west literally eat so much meat we kill ourselves with heart disease, but poor people in Pakistan who sacrifice one cow a year are the real problem. I wonder what the motivation is there.

Agema:

CheetoDust:
I think in general terms one of the potential issues is that a great number of people aren't terribly well educated or informed, and there is a substantial risk that they will not know properly what they should eat for a good vegan diet, and we need to consider the risk of them suffering certain forms of malnutrition.

Absolutely. There was a story about Jaden Smith and his parents staging an intervention because his vegan diet was killing him. That was the sensationalist bent anyway, the actual story was he was eating one meal a day and is an over- privileged man child who has no clue how to feed himself. But no, let's blame veganism. Even though there's currently a big upward swing in high performing athletes switching to vegan diets and not starving themselves to death.

As to your friend that's weird, like evil said below I would assume B12 deficiency but I'm assuming her doctor knows what they were talking about.[quote="evilthecat" post="18.1057469.24320461"].

In general, I feel vegans have a right to be a bit preachy because their lifestyle is objectively better in so many ways. However, one trend that annoys me is Western vegans who spends a lot of their time complaining about meat consumption in non-Western countries. Sure Karen, people in the west literally eat so much meat we kill ourselves with heart disease, but poor people in Pakistan who sacrifice one cow a year are the real problem. I wonder what the motivation is there.

My pet peeves with vegans is actually with environmental vegans. I enjoy vegan alternatives like Seitan and whatnot. But when people buy highly processed, packaged food,and fruit and veg that have a huge carbon footprint to transport while patting themselves on the back for how woke they are it does my head in. Yes, it is probably better but it's still bad. I had a customer once pull her reusable cup out of her bag and ask me to pour her coffee into it. I tried explaining that the cup was already dirty and going in the bin anyway so it was a bit pointless but she insisted that I could just use the cup again. I resisted the urge to tell her if that were true we wouldn't currently be worrying about single use coffee cups.

But yeah as messed up as I find some animal rights protestors if they have an actual moral issue and consider killing animals murder then obviously they're gonna get pretty upset about that.

I'm vegetarian, and make a few efforts in the direction of veganism when it's easy enough (like replacing milk with oat milk in coffee, because it makes little difference). I've noticed the discourse around vegetarian/ vegan dietary stuff can get just bizarre sometimes.

I've heard so much about how pushy and shrill vegans can be, but quite frankly I've had more shit from meat-eaters trying to convert me than I ever did from vegans. Meat-eaters can get sensitive about veganism/ vegetarianism, probably because they take it as an implicit criticism-- or it makes them think about what they're eating, which they don't want to do.

CheetoDust:
I'm also tired of being told by people that you need meat to be healthy. You can be healthy as a carnivore, a vegetarian or a vegan, as long as you eat the right amounts of healthy food and make sure you're getting necessary nutrients.

Vegetarian, sure. But veganism is not healthy. Someone going vegan really has to start paying attention to what exactly is his food made of and which stuff he miht be missing. And no, it is not only B12.
Sure, you can construct a healthy vegan diet, but that will rely on a lot of plants that are specifically included to counter deficiencies of regular food plants. And this stuff is not even growing everywhere.

If you don't pay attention to ingrediants and just avoid animal products you will ruin your health. Even with B12 additives that is likely.

Satinavian:
Vegetarian, sure. But veganism is not healthy. Someone going vegan really has to start paying attention to what exactly is his food made of and which stuff he miht be missing. And no, it is not only B12.
Sure, you can construct a healthy vegan diet, but that will rely on a lot of plants that are specifically included to counter deficiencies of regular food plants. And this stuff is not even growing everywhere.

If you don't pay attention to ingrediants and just avoid animal products you will ruin your health. Even with B12 additives that is likely.

Uhrm, sure, but you should be paying attention to ingredients and what you're eating. Everyone should, and ignoring good dietary planning results in shitty diets for meat eaters and vegans alike.

The take away isn't "veganism is not healthy", its "ignorance about nutrition and failing to think about your own diet is not healthy".

Vegan food is food, it all depends on how well you make it.

Vegan food definitely doesn't need to be some sort of "version" of a food with meat on it, though. You don't need to make a vegan burger, just make a falafel patty or something, they're delicious too.

Nobody needs to eat a tofu turkey with artificial flavorings, either. Tofu is just fine as...just normal tofu. Mabo tofu is literally one of the most flavorful dishes ever and is vegan. Eat that. Why the need to ruin tofu by trying to make it into a turkey.

Just stop making fake versions of existing food and make good food without meat in it. Hell, you don't even need to call it vegan. It's just food. It doesn't have to be a "thing" to not eat animal products, just don't eat the things you don't wanna eat. It's not that hard and you don't need to base your identity around it or twist it into some weird political thing.

Dreiko:
Vegan food is food, it all depends on how well you make it.

Vegan food definitely doesn't need to be some sort of "version" of a food with meat on it, though. You don't need to make a vegan burger, just make a falafel patty or something, they're delicious too.

Nobody needs to eat a tofu turkey with artificial flavorings, either. Tofu is just fine as...just normal tofu. Mabo tofu is literally one of the most flavorful dishes ever and is vegan. Eat that. Why the need to ruin tofu by trying to make it into a turkey.

Just stop making fake versions of existing food and make good food without meat in it. Hell, you don't even need to call it vegan. It's just food. It doesn't have to be a "thing" to not eat animal products, just don't eat the things you don't wanna eat. It's not that hard and you don't need to base your identity around it or twist it into some weird political thing.

Not a vegan, but I have a restricted diet as a result of a medical condition (coeliac disease), so I can understand the reasoning behind wanting an alternative version of food you can't have. Sure, there are perfectly nice naturally gluten-free foods out there, but sometimes I just want a burger. I want to enjoy the same variety of food that your average person enjoys. More choice is good.

People who want to make a statement with abstaining because it gives them a nice feeling about themselves can be annoying if you think about it too much. For example, somebody might not care about what they eat - whatever gets them through the day (and hopefully doesn't make them fat). Now when somebody does care so much that they will make strict rules about what they can eat and feel good about themselves following those rules, it might seem a bit like a "life hack". How many headlines with "I gave up X and feel much better now" have you seen? These people might often also say that they "don't feel like they miss anything from before" and "it doesn't take any extra time or work to [follow their diet rules]". I can't know if any of that is true or not, for I haven't tried.

It's all in the feeling. You gotta believe it. And that's where the annoying details come up. We all know not everyone can "believe it". So the next best thing is manipulation. It's alright if the cause is good after all.

Even then I'm fine with it. I won't be making any statements with my diet, and at least for now I haven't had to settle for ersatz.

I'm pretty solidly in the camp of eating meat, but I've experimented with stuff like Beyond Meat or other vegan alternatives to see how they compare and how they can be prepared. Honestly, not really impressed. Sure, some make for decent alternatives or have their own flavour and texture profiles that allow for novel recipes (Tofu and cauliflower are pretty handy), but the majority just don't hold a candle. I'll cite vegan cheese as a product I never want to consume again.

I don't really have anything against my vegan friends or anything, hell I've prepared entire vegan meals for dinners where we're doing stuff together, but it's not for me.

evilthecat:

Agema:
Purely incidentally, I know it isn't the case for the vast majority of people who will do fine on a vegan diet, but a friend of mine did have to eat meat. She went vegan, and she followed all the right nutritional guidance, and she gradually became more and more unwell. Eventually her GP told her she needed to start eating meat again, so she did and the problems went away. Christ only knows what was going on, but that's what it was for her.

It was likely vitamin B12 deficiency. Human bodies can't make B12 on their own, and it's only naturally found in significant quantities in meat and animal products (especially organ meat).

Signs point to "regular" anemia due to insufficient iron intake. Some people, especially women can get anemic without a clear cause (something-something menstruation). Even a well-planned vegan diet can exacerbate this. B12 deficiency doesn't appear until you've been without the vitamin for many years and it would be terrible nutritional guidance to not include it.

Like many other identity issues, the exact source of the fats, carbohydrates and protein you choose to put into your digestive system should be one of the least interesting things about you.

The way some people forge not just an identity but a lifestyle, bordering on a religion, around being vegan is really tiresome. We get it, you're the most holier-than-thou sons of bitches in existence, please change the record. On the other end of the scale, it's inevitable that some people will choose to be part of a backlash against this kind of thing, which can get fairly petty. I think I read about a fervently anti-vegan vineyard owner, who on discovering that his wine would be classified as vegan, started adding trace amounts of bacon to it.

Do what you want, there re bigger things to worry about. The only time I feel veganism really crosses the line is when well-intentioned but uninformed adults decide their child and/or pets are going vegan and enforce a nutritionally deficient lifestyle on them.

My big problem with vegans is that food rations count as vegan. It's barely even a challenge to get enough rations to do a vegan ascension so it's kind of a pointless conduct. But I guess it's more about the fact that you miss out on some easy intrinsics, though, so I don't know maybe it's fine.

All fine and well so long as you don't try to climb Mt Everest.

To be honest I feel people are entitled to fuel their bodies in whatever way they see fit. It's when people (on both sides of the argument) start pushing their lifestyle choices on those who don't feel the same way that I begin to have a problem with it.

For reference I am a 'conscientious' meat eater - ie one who believes that although meat is an important part of our diet we do eat too much of it in our daily lives. I therefore only eat meat one meal a day, and practice nose-to-tail butchery so as to increase the yield from each animal and therefore reduce the number that needs to be culled in order to satisfy demand.

Johnny Novgorod:
All fine and well so long as you don't try to climb Mt Everest.

Um, what does the article actually prove? She died of altitude sickness, not malnourishment. Lots of people have died on Everest.

Tbh that burger sounds just fine, would eat it. It's weird to call it vegan even in part, probably should just get used to calling it plant based because a half vegan burger is silly as a concept

Hawki:

Johnny Novgorod:
All fine and well so long as you don't try to climb Mt Everest.

Um, what does the article actually prove? She died of altitude sickness, not malnourishment. Lots of people have died on Everest.

The only thing it proves is that middle class suburbanites shouldn't treat Mount Everest like some kind of fun holiday destination they can just go to carelessly and without preparations. The population of the Himalayas have years of life experience in mountainous terrain and exposure to high altitudes. Someone living at the sea line going up there thinking it's just a quick climb for a great selfie-spot are the living incarnation of hubris

JoJo:

Dreiko:
Vegan food is food, it all depends on how well you make it.

Vegan food definitely doesn't need to be some sort of "version" of a food with meat on it, though. You don't need to make a vegan burger, just make a falafel patty or something, they're delicious too.

Nobody needs to eat a tofu turkey with artificial flavorings, either. Tofu is just fine as...just normal tofu. Mabo tofu is literally one of the most flavorful dishes ever and is vegan. Eat that. Why the need to ruin tofu by trying to make it into a turkey.

Just stop making fake versions of existing food and make good food without meat in it. Hell, you don't even need to call it vegan. It's just food. It doesn't have to be a "thing" to not eat animal products, just don't eat the things you don't wanna eat. It's not that hard and you don't need to base your identity around it or twist it into some weird political thing.

Not a vegan, but I have a restricted diet as a result of a medical condition (coeliac disease), so I can understand the reasoning behind wanting an alternative version of food you can't have. Sure, there are perfectly nice naturally gluten-free foods out there, but sometimes I just want a burger. I want to enjoy the same variety of food that your average person enjoys. More choice is good.

To me it's kind of an insult to the ingredient you're making the burger out of that you can't enjoy it as whatever it is (is it tofu again? legit not sure what they make the fake burgers out of lol) but have to mould it into the shape of a burger and artificially twist it around to be kinda sorta like a burger. In the end it's still not a burger, it's a burger-like something else. You'd prolly enjoy it more if it was cooked like it was intended to be cooked.

Also, have you tried the korean-style lettuce burgers where they don't use bread at all and use a large leaf of lettuce instead? Those are pretty great.

`I think in the quest for variety what ends up happening is that ingredients which actually could provide a variety of flavors and textures get bogged down into mimicking the 5-10 or so mainstream popular things instead that everyone already knows and is comfortable with. How many non-chinese vegans have even tried mabo tofu do you think? And this would be people eating tofu every day of their lives and some of them even go on to base their identity around it.

It's quite the shame.

Dreiko:

To me it's kind of an insult to the ingredient you're making the burger out of that you can't enjoy it as whatever it is (is it tofu again? legit not sure what they make the fake burgers out of lol) but have to mould it into the shape of a burger and artificially twist it around to be kinda sorta like a burger. In the end it's still not a burger, it's a burger-like something else. You'd prolly enjoy it more if it was cooked like it was intended to be cooked.

The shape and format of a burger-- patty, burger bun, classic burger condiments-- are really great, though. Why miss out on those because the patty shape is supposedly reserved for meat? And if you've got all those things, then calling it anything except a veggie burger is just confusing.

I'm veggie, but I loved the taste and texture of meat. Welcome anything that approximates it (just as I welcome stuff that doesn't try to approximate it). More options.

Dreiko:

To me it's kind of an insult to the ingredient you're making the burger out of that you can't enjoy it as whatever it is (is it tofu again? legit not sure what they make the fake burgers out of lol) but have to mould it into the shape of a burger and artificially twist it around to be kinda sorta like a burger.

If it isn't the same shape as a traditional meat burger, it won't fit in the bun correctly. Meat substitutes make it easier for people who've grown up in a meat-eating world to make the jump to not eating meat.

More generally, you can get B12 from Monster energy drinks.

My feelings towards vegans... Just don't shove your ideals down my throat and go out of your way to make me feel bad for my choices and we're good. Do your thing, I'll do mine.

vallorn:
I'll cite vegan cheese as a product I never want to consume again.

I tried a vegan poutine once. Dunno what kind of gravy it was, but the vegan cheese curds were... a bit of a disgrace, honestly. Couldn't bring it in me to tell the guy I wasn't a fan of it though. I just ate it all and said thanks, then never went back

You can pretty much guarantee that comments on a news article even touching on vegetarianism, let alone veganism, will have far more comments from people angry with vegans than comments from vegans. Mostly written by red-faced splutterers with big ham fingers.

It's like with the hipster thing. I never got why so much anger towards hipsters; and this anger towards vegans has the same vibe.

Have yet to meet a vegan or vegetarian who was aggressive with their lifestyle choice towards me. But then I don't go looking for it either. Haven't met anyone who use it as a pillar of their identity also.

What is annoying are meat eaters getting all funny about an innocent bit of cannibalism. Fecking hypocrites. Do they source any of their meat from willing participants suffering inoperable stage 4 glioblastoma, seeking peaceful euthanasia? I thought not. So until your meat consents, jog on, moral arbiters!

Silvanus:

Dreiko:

To me it's kind of an insult to the ingredient you're making the burger out of that you can't enjoy it as whatever it is (is it tofu again? legit not sure what they make the fake burgers out of lol) but have to mould it into the shape of a burger and artificially twist it around to be kinda sorta like a burger. In the end it's still not a burger, it's a burger-like something else. You'd prolly enjoy it more if it was cooked like it was intended to be cooked.

The shape and format of a burger-- patty, burger bun, classic burger condiments-- are really great, though. Why miss out on those because the patty shape is supposedly reserved for meat? And if you've got all those things, then calling it anything except a veggie burger is just confusing.

I'm veggie, but I loved the taste and texture of meat. Welcome anything that approximates it (just as I welcome stuff that doesn't try to approximate it). More options.

But no, I covered that above. Make a falafel patty or something. Or a potato one, or a mushroom one. You can do things that are meant to be eaten with stuff in the same style a burger is. I was watching this really cool indian cooking show and in one part they went to an indian burger chain place and because a lot of Hindu are vegetarians they had these really cool and spicy potato burgers.

You can do stuff that's both delicious and is honoring the things you're making the food out of, no need to disrespect the vegetables by having them pretend to be meat or compared to meat or add things to them that makes them taste like meat instead of what they're actually supposed to taste like.

Like I said, you can make food without meat and it can be delicious, it's all about how you cook it.

Dreiko:
But no, I covered that above. Make a falafel patty or something. Or a potato one, or a mushroom one. You can do things that are meant to be eaten with stuff in the same style a burger is. I was watching this really cool indian cooking show and in one part they went to an indian burger chain place and because a lot of Hindu are vegetarians they had these really cool and spicy potato burgers.

You can do stuff that's both delicious and is honoring the things you're making the food out of, no need to disrespect the vegetables by having them pretend to be meat or compared to meat or add things to them that makes them taste like meat instead of what they're actually supposed to taste like.

Like I said, you can make food without meat and it can be delicious, it's all about how you cook it.

In the off-chance this ain't a joke...dude, vegetables or any other ingredient don't have any concept of honour or feelings to hurt. People make food into shapes of many things. What about alphabet spaghetti and potato smiley faces? What are they insulting?

Dreiko:

But no, I covered that above. Make a falafel patty or something. Or a potato one, or a mushroom one. You can do things that are meant to be eaten with stuff in the same style a burger is. I was watching this really cool indian cooking show and in one part they went to an indian burger chain place and because a lot of Hindu are vegetarians they had these really cool and spicy potato burgers.

You can do stuff that's both delicious and is honoring the things you're making the food out of, no need to disrespect the vegetables by having them pretend to be meat or compared to meat or add things to them that makes them taste like meat instead of what they're actually supposed to taste like.

Like I said, you can make food without meat and it can be delicious, it's all about how you cook it.

Yes, you can. Why not also make one from mycoprotein (as most veggie burgers are)?

The whole idea of "honour" or "disrespect" seems a bit absurd when we're talking about proteins and plants. Do what tastes good, and I like mycoprotein patties.

Dreiko:

You can do stuff that's both delicious and is honoring the things you're making the food out of, no need to disrespect the vegetables by having them pretend to be meat or compared to meat or add things to them that makes them taste like meat instead of what they're actually supposed to taste like.

Right, but what if I *like* the taste and texture of meat but don't agree with killing animals to provide me with that taste and texture?

Neurotic Void Melody:
So what are your thoughts on veganism?

It's fine. I'm not vegan, but I don't care if something or someone is vegan.

And aggressively anti-vegan folk?

Most of the examples I know are also massive losers and insufferable pricks in general, and possibly only act that way because it's their only recourse for feeling superior to others.

I get being annoyed by preachy vegans or those idiots spraying fake blood and picketing fast food places and supermarkets but why do people see the label vegan and lose their minds?

I'm assuming they are basically like the counterparts to those aforementioned losers/pricks from the opposite of the spectrum.

Baffle2:

Dreiko:

You can do stuff that's both delicious and is honoring the things you're making the food out of, no need to disrespect the vegetables by having them pretend to be meat or compared to meat or add things to them that makes them taste like meat instead of what they're actually supposed to taste like.

Right, but what if I *like* the taste and texture of meat but don't agree with killing animals to provide me with that taste and texture?

Then you're just the average normal person. I don't like the killing of animals either. I just don't think that's ever gonna stop and me not eating them isn't going to make them not die so if they're dying either way, might as well enjoy my steak.

Silvanus:

Dreiko:

But no, I covered that above. Make a falafel patty or something. Or a potato one, or a mushroom one. You can do things that are meant to be eaten with stuff in the same style a burger is. I was watching this really cool indian cooking show and in one part they went to an indian burger chain place and because a lot of Hindu are vegetarians they had these really cool and spicy potato burgers.

You can do stuff that's both delicious and is honoring the things you're making the food out of, no need to disrespect the vegetables by having them pretend to be meat or compared to meat or add things to them that makes them taste like meat instead of what they're actually supposed to taste like.

Like I said, you can make food without meat and it can be delicious, it's all about how you cook it.

Yes, you can. Why not also make one from mycoprotein (as most veggie burgers are)?

The whole idea of "honour" or "disrespect" seems a bit absurd when we're talking about proteins and plants. Do what tastes good, and I like mycoprotein patties.

Respecting your ingredient is a focal point with regards to growing food or cooking it. Plant or animal, it is something that's giving up its life for you to eat it, so the least you can do is treat it appropriately.

Mushrooms are great, you're having a mushroom burger, not a hamburger. Mushrooms are literally my favorite single ingredient on this planet actually. Matsutake are just amazing and the broth of dried shiitake is almost a nostalgic flavor and aroma to me (this shark fin soup I grew up on had a ton of them in it).

You can even make a tea/coffee-like drink from a certain type of mushroom that grows on tree bark. It has a woody texture and you grind it into a powder and then make the tea.

They don't really need to be marketed as a substitute to meat, not one bit. They're already good enough just being mushrooms.

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