Sonic the Hedgehog Movie Trailer #2

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Johnny Novgorod:

So you don't think they should've redesigned Sanic and that, for example, some shitty porno about cartoon animals is a better achievement than voicing criticism/heeding criticism.

No. That's a comlete misrepresentation of my argument.

I never said they shouldn't have redesigned Sonic, and I'm glad they did, even though I doubt it's going to make that much difference in the end. Second of all, this isn't about Paramount heeding criticism, and even if it was, I can't even call that an "achievement." Point is this - on the individual level, writing a bit of criticism and downvoting a video is not an achievement. And even if you're going to the dregs of fanfiction, that's still something that's worth more because at the very least, it's a creation.

Or, I'll put it this way. I vented my spleen about the trailer. I've also written a total of 7 multi-chaptered STH stories, plus 71 oneshots, plus 28 poems. Even if any of those things were pornographic, the question has to be raised what's the better "achievement" - me spending a few seconds of my life criticizing a character design, or stuff that I actually created?

You also think Terminator 6 is a good movie.

Um, yeah. That isn't a rare opinion.

Heck, I like Salvation and Genisys as well. Least there I'm in the minority (especially with the latter).

Asita:

Just to inject myself into the conversation for a moment: I'd instead argue that calling the redesign an achievement of the fans is, at best, a misattribution. If we must insist on calling it an achievement at all, the credit should probably go to the CGI artists for accomplishing the redesign so quickly, as that also necessitates redoing the rigging, animation, CGI lighting, etc (ie, the achievement would be in how quickly they turned it around).

With that said, to call it an achievement at all is questionable. We don't call it achievement, for instance, when a company recognizes a problem and issues a product recall. This is effectively in the same boat as that. It's to their credit that the production team recognized that the negative reaction wasn't the fault of the fans and worked to address the issue, but to call any part of that an achievement is reaching.

This.

Asita:

Johnny Novgorod:

So you don't think they should've redesigned Sanic and that, for example, some shitty porno about cartoon animals is a better achievement than voicing criticism/heeding criticism. Well, that's you. You also think Terminator 6 is a good movie. But hey, for what it's worth, the new Sanic movie... is still gonna suck, just not as much. So really you're winning here. Either way I'm not watching it.

Just to inject myself into the conversation for a moment: I'd instead argue that calling the redesign an achievement of the fans is, at best, a misattribution. If we must insist on calling it an achievement at all, the credit should probably go to the CGI artists for accomplishing the redesign so quickly, as that also necessitates redoing the rigging, animation, CGI lighting, etc (ie, the achievement would be in how quickly they turned it around).

With that said, to call it an achievement at all is questionable. We don't call it achievement, for instance, when a company recognizes a problem and issues a product recall. This is effectively in the same boat as that. It's to their credit that the production team recognized that the negative reaction wasn't the fault of the fans and worked to address the issue, but to call any part of that an achievement is reaching.

Are people saying this though?

I don't think anyone implied that the fans did the redesign (though they had folks from Sonic Mania work on it, which is a fangroup that makes fangames due to being fans), people are saying that they wouldn't have done that if fans didn't complain, which is very much likely.

So, the achievement isn't making the redesign, the achievement is convincing the 3D animator team to make the redesign when otherwise they wouldn't have done so. I think it's disingenuous to imply that fans believe they literally created this new sonic, what they did do is make it clear that the old one was no good, which is useful information. You can't make a redesign if you don't realize you need to do so in the first place.

Dreiko:

Asita:

Johnny Novgorod:

So you don't think they should've redesigned Sanic and that, for example, some shitty porno about cartoon animals is a better achievement than voicing criticism/heeding criticism. Well, that's you. You also think Terminator 6 is a good movie. But hey, for what it's worth, the new Sanic movie... is still gonna suck, just not as much. So really you're winning here. Either way I'm not watching it.

Just to inject myself into the conversation for a moment: I'd instead argue that calling the redesign an achievement of the fans is, at best, a misattribution. If we must insist on calling it an achievement at all, the credit should probably go to the CGI artists for accomplishing the redesign so quickly, as that also necessitates redoing the rigging, animation, CGI lighting, etc (ie, the achievement would be in how quickly they turned it around).

With that said, to call it an achievement at all is questionable. We don't call it achievement, for instance, when a company recognizes a problem and issues a product recall. This is effectively in the same boat as that. It's to their credit that the production team recognized that the negative reaction wasn't the fault of the fans and worked to address the issue, but to call any part of that an achievement is reaching.

Are people saying this though?

I don't think anyone implied that the fans did the redesign (though they had folks from Sonic Mania work on it, which is a fangroup that makes fangames due to being fans), people are saying that they wouldn't have done that if fans didn't complain, which is very much likely.

So, the achievement isn't making the redesign, the achievement is convincing the 3D animator team to make the redesign when otherwise they wouldn't have done so. I think it's disingenuous to imply that fans believe they literally created this new sonic, what they did do is make it clear that the old one was no good, which is useful information. You can't make a redesign if you don't realize you need to do so in the first place.

I'm not saying that the fans believe that they literally created this new Sonic. I'm saying that calling the fact that it was redesigned an achievement of the fans is misattribution and hyperbolic to boot. The redesign is best described as a quality assurance move; the product announcement was met unfavorably due to a perceived flaw, so the company reworked its product to address those flaws before announcing the new and improved product. Calling that an achievement is like calling the return of Coca-Cola "Classic" and discontinuation of New Coke an achievement.

Asita:

Dreiko:

Asita:

Just to inject myself into the conversation for a moment: I'd instead argue that calling the redesign an achievement of the fans is, at best, a misattribution. If we must insist on calling it an achievement at all, the credit should probably go to the CGI artists for accomplishing the redesign so quickly, as that also necessitates redoing the rigging, animation, CGI lighting, etc (ie, the achievement would be in how quickly they turned it around).

With that said, to call it an achievement at all is questionable. We don't call it achievement, for instance, when a company recognizes a problem and issues a product recall. This is effectively in the same boat as that. It's to their credit that the production team recognized that the negative reaction wasn't the fault of the fans and worked to address the issue, but to call any part of that an achievement is reaching.

Are people saying this though?

I don't think anyone implied that the fans did the redesign (though they had folks from Sonic Mania work on it, which is a fangroup that makes fangames due to being fans), people are saying that they wouldn't have done that if fans didn't complain, which is very much likely.

So, the achievement isn't making the redesign, the achievement is convincing the 3D animator team to make the redesign when otherwise they wouldn't have done so. I think it's disingenuous to imply that fans believe they literally created this new sonic, what they did do is make it clear that the old one was no good, which is useful information. You can't make a redesign if you don't realize you need to do so in the first place.

I'm not saying that the fans believe that they literally created this new Sonic. I'm saying that calling the fact that it was redesigned an achievement of the fans is misattribution and hyperbolic to boot. The redesign is best described as a quality assurance move; the product announcement was met unfavorably due to a perceived flaw, so the company reworked its product to address those flaws before announcing the new and improved product. Calling that an achievement is like calling the return of Coca-Cola "Classic" and discontinuation of New Coke an achievement.

The coke example isn't the same because coke had actually been released for a while before being taken off, they didn't cancel it in the planning stages and go back to the drawing board like they did with Sonic.

Sonic however avoided being met with that predicament and either being abandoned or at best making a sequel that looks better thanks to the fans who were actually able to convince them that they really did need to change the design. Clearly if nobody complained they'd not have a reason to do anything.

Dreiko:

Asita:
I'm not saying that the fans believe that they literally created this new Sonic. I'm saying that calling the fact that it was redesigned an achievement of the fans is misattribution and hyperbolic to boot. The redesign is best described as a quality assurance move; the product announcement was met unfavorably due to a perceived flaw, so the company reworked its product to address those flaws before announcing the new and improved product. Calling that an achievement is like calling the return of Coca-Cola "Classic" and discontinuation of New Coke an achievement.

The coke example isn't the same because coke had actually been released for a while before being taken off, they didn't cancel it in the planning stages and go back to the drawing board like they did with Sonic.

Sonic however avoided being met with that predicament and either being abandoned or at best making a sequel that looks better thanks to the fans who were actually able to convince them that they really did need to change the design. Clearly if nobody complained they'd not have a reason to do anything.

...You say that as if Sonic wasn't already an iconic character long before this movie was even conceived and like the redesign doesn't evoke that iconic look far more strongly. Setting that aside, however, perhaps you'd prefer that I instead invoked rewrites/reshoots, like E.T.'s final act (basically everything after the eponymous alien dies after the government puts the characters in quarantine) being due to test audiences really not liking the original bleaker ending where E.T. stayed dead? Product recalls, perhaps? Or heck, it's a gaming forum, perhaps I should simply have drawn comparison to Final Fantasy XIV doing so badly that they scrapped and reinvented it as a Realm Reborn?

Neither the Sonic redesign nor any of these examples are achievements. Don't get me wrong, none of these changes were bad things, and in many cases it vastly improved the final product, but they aren't achievements and (with the exception of the E.T. example) could have been achieved with less hassle if they'd employed better product testing. And that's what gets me about the characterization of this as some kind of achievement. This is not something novel. This is part of the iterative process of creating a product that your consumer base wants. If the consumer base reacts negatively to the initial pitch of your product and it's due to a specific issue, you put in the extra hours to fix that issue.

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