Star Wars 9: The Sky of Ricewalker: A senseless, incoherent nightmare.

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CoCage:
Jesus, six pages and still going. Honestly there is nothing left to talk about it at this point? Almost everyone it's just rambling in circles. All I have left to say is that I am getting this day one on Blu-ray.

I haven't even read any of this thread because Star Wars and okay, but I assumed this was the state of things; this much discussion is rarely indicative of a cacophony of agreeance. I think new Star Wars movies should join the holy trinity of sex, religion and politics as things not to discuss in civil company. Besides, I watched the video below and pretty much got the gist: it's a Star Wars movie. If at some point it happens to pop up in front of my eyes and I don't' move my head for a couple of hours, I might watch it.

Xprimentyl:

CoCage:
Jesus, six pages and still going. Honestly there is nothing left to talk about it at this point? Almost everyone it's just rambling in circles. All I have left to say is that I am getting this day one on Blu-ray.

I haven?t even read any of this thread because Star Wars and okay, but I assumed this was the state of things; this much discussion is rarely indicative of a cacophony of agreeance. I think new Star Wars movies should join the holy trinity of sex, religion and politics as things not to discuss in civil company. Besides, I watched the video below and pretty much got the gist: it?s a Star Wars movie. If at some point it happens to pop up in front of my eyes and I don?t? move my head for a couple of hours, I might watch it.

Already saw the video, but thank you.

CoCage:
Jesus, six pages and still going. Honestly, there is nothing left to talk about it at this point. Almost everyone is just rambling in circles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnRzSHTrQtw

Hawki:

Johnny Novgorod:

Yes it is. They let backlash dictacte their next move (in a pretty transparent way) rather than backing their own decisions.

Which isn't in of itself a message.

This is semantics really. The entire sequel trilogy has been reactionary, and from the sound of it, we both dislike that.

1) That is not Poe's arc.

Then what is it?

2) The last film all but ignores him anyway.

No, not really. Want a character who's ignored? Look at Rose. Or not, since she barely gets any screentime.

But Poe does get the arc referenced considering his despair at throwing away so many lives in the final battle.

He "commits" by trying to sacrifice himself for a good cause, only to get a slap in the wrist for it. He gets to enjoy the nobility of an act that serves no purpose and is immediately chastised for it with an unrequited kiss.

That doesn't negate the arc he goes on, and Rose's actions have more in common with Po's arc than Finn's.

I think it could be better handled, like a lot of things in TLJ, but it's still there.

According to whom, besides herself?

Um, the audience?

It's clearly what the scene is going for. Themes/motifs/idea within a work don't always require in-universe reflection of that.

You obviously enjoyed the movie, and I think that's what your defense boils down to. Nothing more to say about it.

Hawki:
T1 does use the tropes you describe, but I disagree with the notion that Reese is "transformed" in the film per se. To me, it's less Sarah 'transforming' him and more him just allowing himself to be a person that he hasn't lost per se, but has kept intentionally suppressed.

I definitely see what you're saying.

But in terms of what we are actually shown, there is an enormous change in Reese's behaviour, especially towards Sarah. Initially, he is far more violent and controlling towards her, whereas towards the end of the film their relationship softens and becomes more of a partnership.

I also think you could form exactly the same interpretation of Beast, that he doesn't fundamentally change, but instead reveals a part of himself that he had hidden out of fear of being hurt and despair at his situation. In both cases, we only really see these characters through their actions.

And yes, to preempt a criticism. Reese is entirely justified in everything he does. His behaviour is necessary to save Sarah's life. But put this in the context of a supposedly romantic relationship, since the film wants us to believe that this is a romantic situation. It's not about whether Reese the character wrong, or a bad person in the context of the film, it's about why the writers thought that being put in this situation would cause Sarah to decide that she was in love with him.

The answer is that a lot of romantic storytelling, including Beauty and the Beast, kind of fetishizes the idea of men being controlling, violent or abusive before they are "fixed" by the love of a woman whom they have controlled and abused.

Johnny Novgorod:

You obviously enjoyed the movie, and I think that's what your defense boils down to. Nothing more to say about it.

Yeah, that isn't an argument.

Also, which movie are you talking about? If it's Last Jedi, then yes, I do like it, warts and all. If it's Rise, then I don't. I really, really don't...

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