Doctor Who Season 7: Episode 1 - Asylum of the Daleks (SPOILERS)

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Vedrenne:

The only reason I can see for having Amy and Rory still being on the show, if my recollection is correct, is that this is supposedly the last series of Doctor Who with Matt Smith in it. But other than this question, I found the episode to be quite enjoyable.

90% sure Amy and Rory are getting dropped halfway through this season .

and Matt Smith is confirmed as staying til at least 2014.

Baron von Blitztank:
How did these Daleks survive the Time War?

The new breed of Daleks fled after thier last reveal. All the Darleks seen were the modern design from post Time War. We can only assume they've been replenishing their numbers

Baron von Blitztank:
How did the Daleks capture Amy/Rory onto their ship from Earth? (Sure they were KO'd but someone would have seen the ship)

The Darleks clearly have teleport capabilities, thats what the flash of light was.

Baron von Blitztank:
Why were the Daleks afraid of entering the Asylum?

They dont want to get shot by the army of insane Darleks

Baron von Blitztank:
Why were the Daleks in the Asylum still in their armour?

They cant live without it

Baron von Blitztank:

How did Dalek-Oswin still think she was human?

The human spirit is a powerful thing

Baron von Blitztank:
Why would a Dalek have access to deleting memories for the ENTIRE Dalek race?

The Darleks are a hivemind, it was named in the episode

Baron von Blitztank:
Why create an Asylum planet if they're just going to blow it up?

I've forgotten the exact quote but they have a deep love for hatred, they deemed the insane Dalaks to beautiful to be destroyed

Baron von Blitztank:
Why haven't the Daleks been showing blowing up whole planets before?

They've never had a reason so far

Baron von Blitztank:
Why does a Dalek have access to classical music? (From EARTH nonetheless)

It was all Oswins dream, she was an entertainment manager so she probably knew a lot of classical music

Baron von Blitztank:
Why did The Doctor hear Oswin as a human through the intercoms despite being a Dalek?

Never explained but I assume the intercom was crackly and hard to distinguish

Hope that answers everything, even if you had no desire for it to be answered.

I just found the whole experience to be underwhelming. It was entertaining, I enjoyed it in parts, but it's well below what I'd expect. I'd be willing to chalk it up as Moffat finding his feet as top dawg if we get an improvement from here on in.

Also, my love of Warhammer 40k may have dulled my enjoyment of the ending, I was all like "Bitch, please!"

Baron von Blitztank:

Now onto my barrage of questions:
How did these Daleks survive the Time War?
How did the Daleks capture Amy/Rory onto their ship from Earth? (Sure they were KO'd but someone would have seen the ship)
Why were the Daleks afraid of entering the Asylum?
Why were the Daleks in the Asylum still in their armour?
How did Dalek-Oswin still think she was human?
Why would a Dalek have access to deleting memories for the ENTIRE Dalek race?
Why create an Asylum planet if they're just going to blow it up?
Why haven't the Daleks been shown blowing up whole planets before?
Why does a Dalek have access to classical music? (From EARTH nonetheless)
Why did The Doctor hear Oswin as a human through the intercoms despite being a Dalek?

And I'll stop now before my head explodes...

I enjoyed the episode a fair amount, but after reading this.. Yeah.
Just all those questions right there.
Explain, Moffat.

One thing no-ones brought up yet is that the daleks Self destructed differently (see the first 9th doctor dalek episode)! waddya mean that's something only a fanboy cares about.

Episode was meh at best, knew the twist about an episode before it happened (admittedly thought it was a human one, but still) and Moffat seems to enjoy fucking over the entire Dr who cannon. Also, the daleks saying "dr who" at the end was just annoying, like they're fucking two years old.

The thing is, I really like matt smith's doctor; he's witty and yet sincere. I just no longer think the writing is that good, it's becoming holey, contrived and with that whole "love is magic" mantra, kind of preechy. Love the doctor, just wish he had a better writer.

gigastar:
Ok, im just going to answer to account for your missing lore knowledge.

Abandon4093:
Remeber that episode a while back when the creators said "This will be last time we see the Daleks, we're not using them agian." How many Dalek centric episodes ago was that? Because I don't watch this show religiously and I think I've seen about 5 of them.

I dont recall the writers ever saying that they would permanently put the Daleks under. In fact the entire last season was completely devoid of Daleks, and with the opening of the new season being the best Dalek story since possibly the reboot i fail to see a reason to complain.

It was a Tennent show, a fair while back to be sure. They explicitly said itll be the last Dalek episode. And I thought this episode was poor.

-Too many inconsistencies regarding how the nanobotchangeamathinga worked or what it did.

The series as a whole relies on schizophrenic tech for everything from plot requirements to one-shot gags. Its hardly a surprise now.

I know, but I enoy it much more when the perameters of the tech are at least definend. The bots change the mind fist yet Oswins mind hadn't changed. It does it by removing love yet Daleks have a concept of beauty.

Just meh.

-Why did they pluck the Doctor and the Ponds out of time when it was obviously set at a point when humans were in Space. I'm sure the Doctor would have been roaming around at that time somewhere.

If they plucked him out of wherever/whenever when he was doing something important, it would have altered the timestream and have caused the universe to go into meltdown. Yes, the universe accounts for time traveller antics and everything and if something goes wrong at any 'set event' the universe literally goes into meltdown.

Actually, I think they lurdd the doc to their time so thats cool. But they plucked the Ponds out of the past to bring them to their present that must be atleast a few centuries ahead.

Seems a bit messy.

-How did the Daleks get Dalkified humans on present day earth to capture the Ponds.

Likely converted from afar, and without thier knowledge. The unnamed black man on the Asylum world was Dalekified and he didnt even know it himself.

Point is that they can convert humans on present day Earth and all they do with them is capture the ponds.

And that guy did have a name, damned if I remember it though. He shouldn't have been rummaging round on the surface though. Hes supposed to have died 1 year ago, so to his knowledge he'd have been rummaging for a year. If the beems woke him up or something itd make some level of sense. Even if that doesn't explain why hes not a popsicle.

-Aren't Daleks obsessed with homoginy to the point that they eradicate slight mutations even if they're beneficial. So why would they go to the effort of converting humans and leaving them both looking and acting human.

That changed with the introduction of the latest generation of Daleks in series 5. Alot of things seem to have changed with the Daleks since then but this is the first episode that had actually demonstrated any of them.

Well that sucks. One of the only cool Dalek aspects was their obsession with 'purity.'

-Why did the Doctor have a veritable break down because a few angry geriatric Daleks with no weapons decided to edge towards him at tortoise speed.

Daleks can kill with thier plungers too. Its considerably less clean than thier lasers.

Yet we never see a hint of fear when hes facing down fully functioning Daleks. But with these rust buckets he's damn near crying.

But from a standalone episode point, these things made no fucking sense.

One of the reasons why the series remains popular is because it doesnt do sensible. Think about that.

Theres a difference between whimsy and poor writing though.

Patrick Buck:
Hated it. Didn't like the nanobots, why don't daleks just flood worlds with them, rather than attacking? Seems like a simpler way to win, and seemingly difficult to stop. Plus the Amy/Rory thing felt forced, and unneeded. And how could that Girl (I forget her name) wipe all knowledge of the Doctor out of the Dalek's minds, but still know about them herself, being a Dalek?

Plus I kinda liked the daleks hating the Doctor, but still, that I could live with. But I really didn't like the episode, and I blame Moffet again. I miss Russel T Davis. I never had a problem with ANY of his episodes, and Even Moffets induvidual ones when Davis was in charge, but Moffet... He seems to be changing the show, and I don't like it. :/

I'm going to carry on watching, but I'm not exactly looking forward to each episode anymore., each one leaves me feeling with a resounding feeling of MEH.

Crap, another plot hole. Damn it this is making me like the episode a whole lot less...

gigastar:

Baron von Blitztank:

gigastar:
Ze Snip of Awe!

Gotta admit, you did exceedingly well. Good job, Citizen!
Although some still require some explanation and I'm just going to ask you as some kind of Doctor Who guru.

Oh im no guru, i just type what i remember and fill in the rest from Wikipedia.

Ill take the rest of the praise though, i like a good ego stroking.

Why were the Daleks in the Asylum still in their armour?

Cheaper than building a whole new life support platform for the sole purpose of containing insane individuals and a method to transfer them. I would think.

Why would the Daleks be worried about costs?
If they're going to the effort of launching them to another planet then surely they can at least make a few life-support test tubes like the Dalek Prime-Minister is in?

I think the best counter to this rebuttle is that alot has changed within the Dalek society since the Time War. A prime example being that they have shifted from an empire to having a parliament with a prime-minister.

And during the Time War while the Daleks did number in the trillions, possibly quadrillions, and any resource the Daleks could find or salvage would have gone into replacing lost ships or Daleks, including organic matter.

How did Dalek-Oswin still think she was human?

Oswin's conversion occured completely under automated supervision, so its probably that something went wrong because of this.

Fair enough but how did it work in The Parting of The Ways way back in the Season 1 Finale of Nu-Who?
Sure the Dalek Emperor probably would have had more time to fuck around with the creation process and was just creating normal Daleks as opposed to making a Dalek with specific genius-level intellect and that messed with the system but surely the concept of Human-Dalek conversion would have been studied and revised at this point before they tried a Human-Dalek-Genius which could fuck up the entire Dalek race if unchecked.

In that instance the humans used for conversion were actually dead before conversion. The Dalek Emperor at the time killed the humans, completely rewrote the genetic code in the corpses then stuck them in a test tube then applied lightning until he got more Daleks.

At least thats my interpretation of how he did the full thing. The actual process is probably more complex and involves necromancy.

Why were the Daleks afraid of entering the Asylum?

As mentioned in the episode, Daleks treat hatred like art, art which they would like to keep if possible. For regular Daleks to go down would run the risk of stirring up the hornets nest and resulting in them destroying thousands of pieces of "art".

Not to mention alot of the Daleks on that planet were still armed, pretty much making it a war of attrition

Good point but 70% of the insane Daleks we saw didn't even have guns and even for the ones that do have guns, I'm fairly certain the effect isn't as drastic as much as it is on a Human. Sure it probably would harm the Dalek on the inside but it'd probably just hurt as much as a bullet wound on a human, not instantly fatal but would hurt like fuck. Going with that analogy it does depend on where the human gets shot but here the Daleks have really slow reflexes so by the time they shouted "EggStirMinute" the other less-insane Daleks would be halfway across the room and at that range I doubt they'd be able to hit anything too vital.

Not only that, but the Insano-Daleks only seemed to go apeshit once they found out about The Doctor and Rory which being The Doctor and Human make them enemies of the Dalek race and so to be Exterminated. I'm sure that if a squad of Daleks came in they'd just be happy rusting away talking about Eggs and spinning in place while the squad do their jobs unhindered.

Finally, even if the Insano-Daleks ran the risk of attacking their own kind, there are more than enough Daleks on that ship to do a Zerg Rush and just send in more Daleks than the Insano's could possibly hope to defeat. If the Daleks didn't want to sacrifice their own kind, then why not capture and create a team of Dalek-Human sentries like they have on the ship?

I think you underestimate the numbers that could have been on that plannet.

I mean, the whole world is full of Daleks deemed unfit for military service by the Daleks and they were dumped there throughout the Time War.

Also a Dalek is never unarmed. If thier lasers dont work, thier plungers probably will. If plungers dont work, then set the self-destruct and charge into a crowd of sanes. If the damage caused by any one exploding Dalek is anything like the one we saw blow in the episode, then thats more than enough to at least cripple a sane Dalek.

Then theres the matter of that forcefield, it seems specifically designed to keep Daleks from penetrating it. Which would explain why no insane Daleks escaped over the countless years this place has existed and why the sane Daleks didnt simply go in themselves.

Or there could have been some other eldritch abomination banished to the plannet that we never saw. Possibly could have been a Dalek Supreme or three in there?

Or they could have been stuck contemplating what kind of horror managed to survive despite thier security measures among the hordes of the insane Daleks.

Why haven't the Daleks been shown blowing up whole planets before?

I'm pretty sure they have, but then i havent seen the old series.

Either way, in the new series so far until now, blowing up planets was either completely counter-productive or not the point of their presence there

But why didn't they do that in The Parting of The Ways?
From what I remember of that episode the Emperor didn't care about the Earth anymore after he'd gained a large of Daleks from it's populace so why take slow effort in destroying the place continent at a time when it could have been blown up quicker in its entirety from orbit?

I could pin this down to being that these Daleks would have had better access to weaponry since it's the ship with the Dalek-Parliament onboard and the Emperor had to build everything from scratch. Plus there could have been a load of Dalek-Motherships behind the Parliament-Ship that we didn't see and it's only the Motherships that have the really devastating weaponry and the Emperor only had one Mothership with good thousand odd Battleships but I'm wondering if you have any different ideas for this one.

Ok that simply could have been military sense. If the Daleks simply nuked Earth then nothing would have stopped the Doctor from setting off his shiny new doomsday device and killing them all.

Hmmm... Not quite satisfied but I'll go with that.

What I really didn't like about this was that Moffat seemed to be mashing together ideas from some of his better stories. Nanogenes turn you from human into a Dalek (The Empty Child), The Doctor encounters a future companion in their final hours (Silence in the Library - River Song). Nothing seemed particularly original and I felt cheated that the Daleks which featured in so much of the hype did not play a larger role in the story.

There were a few great moments and Jenna Louise Coleman looks as though she will be brilliant come Christmas but this was a rather poor opener to the series.

For a moment i thought:

DALEK COMPANION

then was immediately disappointed, same thing happened with Amelia
"yay a little girl companion", "NO you get another hopelessly infatuated girl" (they did manage to pull out of that nose dive with Rory coming back, married couple companions was nice but they could have done more with that especially the whole Rory has now lived longer than the doctor bit)
Also the doctors daughter, I'd have loved to see him it that role, but no, kill her off then bring her back too late just to taunt us.

The old show had other time lords, robot dogs, aliens, android assassins, men.
I just want some more variety in the companions rather than girl infatuated with mysterious doctor, even Rory and Amy, while a nice change, out side of their own story arcs act exactly the same as the other 2005+ companions.

Abandon4093:

-Why did they pluck the Doctor and the Ponds out of time when it was obviously set at a point when humans were in Space. I'm sure the Doctor would have been roaming around at that time somewhere.

Plot convenience. Honestly I don't think there's a proper answer to this.

Abandon4093:

-How did the Daleks get Dalkified humans on present day earth to capture the Ponds.

I'm curious about this too. Have the daleks always had time machines? I'm not a massive Doctor Who fan so I don't know.

Abandon4093:

-Why were the normal Daleks afraid to go down to the asylum with a bunch of rusty old unarmed Daleks.

I doubt that the proper daleks had any idea what state the asylum was in. Afterall they said it was fully automated, yet we clearly see everything falling apart, and they also didn't know the exact number of daleks that were in the asylum. Clearly they had no idea what to expect and I think that's probably what scared them.

Also I'm pretty sure the daleks said that it was offensive to kill their own kind, but then again they blew up all the daleks in the asylum anyway, so this is definitely a contradiction.

Abandon4093:

-Why did they think the needed THE PREDATORS help because someone was playing music.

I agree that this is all very strange. At the start the daleks tell the doctor to save them, then they play him the broadcast, and only then after he tells them that the insane daleks could get out do they decide to destroy the asylum. From this I guess that the daleks always wanted to destroy the asylum, and then a strange transmission started playing from somewhere it shouldn't have been. So I guess they decided enough was enough. But yeah it's still strange.

Abandon4093:

-Why was that guy actively rummaging around on the surface of the planet one year after being dalekified.

Scavenging parts maybe? I get that it was supposed to be a red herring for the viewer, but you're right, it is a bit silly.

Abandon4093:

-The cold may preserver bodies but it does this by freezing them.

Kinda not sure what you mean here. Could you clarify please?

Abandon4093:

-Aren't Daleks obsessed with homoginy to the point that they eradicate slight mutations even if they're beneficial. So why would they go to the effort of converting humans and leaving them both looking and acting human.

They don't seem like true daleks so they're probably no danger to the dalek way of life. I'd imagine that their only use would be to act as spies for the daleks. Meanwhile in they asylum they act as cheaply made security.

Abandon4093:

-Why did they fully convert that woman, he said it's because she was smart and daleks needs smart. But the Daleks down there weren't firing on all cylinders to begin with and they don't want smart, they want conformity to an ideal.

Clearly there was a lot more going on in that asylum than what we saw. We kinda have to make up our own answer here. Steven Moffat probably didn't explain it cause he didn't think it was important.

Abandon4093:

-How did she not realise she had been converted.

She knew, but she couldn't handle the truth so she made up her own reality. People in real life have issues similar to this - for example a person might imagine that a dead loved one is still living, because they can't stand the truth.

Abandon4093:

-Why wasn't her mind fully converted yet still had access to the pathway.

The daleks for whatever reason needed her mind left alone. I imagine that they just hooked it up to their mainframe thing.

Abandon4093:

-Why was she in the centre of a very posh (by their standards) room and not just thrown away with the others.

She was special: she was a human fully converted into a dalek. I'm fairly certain that this sort of thing is incredibly rare.

Abandon4093:

-Why did the Doctor have a veritable break down because a few angry geriatric Daleks with no weapons decided to edge towards him at tortoise speed.

I'm not sure if you know this but those plunger things on the daleks can kill people. And even if the doctor could out-maneuver one dalek, you have to remember that the entire room was filled with them.

Abandon4093:

-When she realised she wasn't human why did she down the shields right away instead of letting the doctor get back the port pad without having to do a dramatic run.

Good question. Maybe she was still upset with the doctor for telling her the truth.

Abandon4093:

-How does one Dalek with with a malfunctioning brain delete something as important as the Doctors existence from the minds of all Daleks. Surely such capabilities should be reserved for the higherups.

The daleks are a hive mind. They would all have access to the data stuff. No ordinary dalek however would remove anything.

Abandon4093:

-Why was her voice normal over the intercoms.

Maybe because it was the way she remembered her voice, and therefore that was they way it sounded? I dunno, another good question.

Overall there are a few plot holes, inconsistencies and other stuff with the episode. But you know what? I still liked it. I've found that when you start questioning everything in Doctor Who your head starts to hurt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8w95xIdH4o

^When it comes to Doctor Who, I try to live by this philosophy (skip to 0:40).

(also if anyone can tell me how to embed the video in this post, that would be awesome :D )

I'll admit, I fell for it. I didn't see the twist coming because she was played by Jenna-Louise Coleman.

Also the Dalek that thinks its a five-year old girl in a tutu was brilliant.

The Ponds didn't have much to do though, even the Daleks didn't know why they were there other than "The Doctor has friends, so we brought your friends". It will be interesting to see if this keeps up.

gigastar:

In that instance the humans used for conversion were actually dead before conversion. The Dalek Emperor at the time killed the humans, completely rewrote the genetic code in the corpses then stuck them in a test tube then applied lightning until he got more Daleks.

At least thats my interpretation of how he did the full thing. The actual process is probably more complex and involves necromancy.

They were thrown in a blender and regrown from single cells essentially... well the Dalek Emperor specifically used the terms "pulped" and "sifted" but same point.

Abandon4093:

-Why did they pluck the Doctor and the Ponds out of time when it was obviously set at a point when humans were in Space. I'm sure the Doctor would have been roaming around at that time somewhere.

They might've been near-human aliens

[QUOTE]-Aren't Daleks obsessed with homoginy to the point that they eradicate slight mutations even if they're beneficial. So why would they go to the effort of converting humans and leaving them both looking and acting human.[/quote]
They've used mind-controlled human slaves before

Baron von Blitztank:

But why didn't they do that in The Parting of The Ways?
From what I remember of that episode the Emperor didn't care about the Earth anymore after he'd gained a large of Daleks from it's populace so why take slow effort in destroying the place continent at a time when it could have been blown up quicker in its entirety from orbit?

From memory he said something about settling the planet and using it as his throne from which to spread a new empire after they were done glassing it. He was an egotistical jerk like that.

I reiterate my firmly held belief of "Bugger the Ponds".

I don't like them as characters and felt their inclusion in this episode was pretty firmly forced in where as it could have been left to just the Doctor.

The twist was telegraphed but still good. Will be waiting on next weeks episode before I come to my conclusion of whether or not I'll be giving up DW.

Last season was pretty lacklustre IMO even though Matt Smith does a fantastic job as the Doctor.

THat was perhaps the greatest thing I have ever seen in my life.

Endocrom:
Prediction: He meets Oswin before she joins the Alaska, has some adventures, rights some wrongs, all the usual stuff. Then she leaves and mentions that she's joining a ship called the Alaska, que the Doctor's stoic expression in an empty Tardis as he knows what's in store for her. Camera pans back, fade to black, big 'ol dramatic moment.

Not entirely sure that would work, if Oswin travelled with the Doctor before she joined the crew of the ship, the first thing she would of said would have been something along the lines of "Doctor, I should have known you'd be here to save me" when she first saw him. Of course it could be said that something happened to her memory when she was converted to a Dalek, but the rest of her memory seems to be intact, I doubt the Daleks would just erase that part of her mind.

Plus, if the Doctor knows that she is doomed, he would have done something in his power to save her from her fate, like he did with River and the Sonic Screwdriver.

I reckon that it is more likely that he'll save her/the ship from crashing into the Dalek asylum, thus changing the timeline and letting us erase the Daleks shouting "Doctor Who?" from our own memories.

OK, first off, I want to say that I really did enjoy the episode. I'm just having a hard time nailing down why. Right now the flaws are way more prominent in my memory, so I'll just list those:

-Osmin. It's like someone took River Song and turned her Quirkiness Levels up to 11 while removing any character flaws she might have had. She's...cartoonishly good at things. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's what happened. Moffat realized that everyone was sick of River, so he just renamed her and hoped we wouldn't notice. See, the thing Moffat doesn't seem to understand is that the Doctor only WORKS when he has normal to work of off. Two Doctors bouncing of each other is just...irritating. If the second part of the season is like that...Ugh. I might honestly just stop watching.

-The fact that the Daleks no longer recognize the Doctor. What was the point of that? I'm assuming he's going somewhere with this, so I guess I'll wait to pass judgement, but...Well, it's just odd.

-The Power of Motherfucking Love. This is the OTHER biggest problem I have with the Moffat seasons. Seems like "love" is saving the day every other goddamn episode. And it is ALWAYS cringe-inducing levels of bad. I mean, there's cheesy and then there's....sappy.

-It was kind of a wasted opportunity. When they said "Planet of Insane Daleks", I thought we were get some really cool, twisted characters. I thought it was gonna be like the Splicers in Rapture, but with Daleks. But these Daleks aren't insane. They're just normal Daleks with less power.

SayHelloToMrBullet:

Abandon4093:

-Why did they pluck the Doctor and the Ponds out of time when it was obviously set at a point when humans were in Space. I'm sure the Doctor would have been roaming around at that time somewhere.

Plot convenience. Honestly I don't think there's a proper answer to this.

Yea, thought as much. The Doctor was actually lured to that place though on second thought. So that's okay. But going to present day Earth to pick up the Ponds when the Doctor would clearly have had tons of other companions since then is just stupid.

SayHelloToMrBullet:

Abandon4093:

-How did the Daleks get Dalkified humans on present day earth to capture the Ponds.

I'm curious about this too. Have the daleks always had time machines? I'm not a massive Doctor Who fan so I don't know.

You know, I'm seriously trying to remember. I don't think I can recall any time traveling Daleks before, but it isn't such a large leap when you consider that they were the major force in the timewar.

SayHelloToMrBullet:

Abandon4093:

-Why were the normal Daleks afraid to go down to the asylum with a bunch of rusty old unarmed Daleks.

I doubt that the proper daleks had any idea what state the asylum was in. Afterall they said it was fully automated, yet we clearly see everything falling apart, and they also didn't know the exact number of daleks that were in the asylum. Clearly they had no idea what to expect and I think that's probably what scared them.

Also I'm pretty sure the daleks said that it was offensive to kill their own kind, but then again they blew up all the daleks in the asylum anyway, so this is definitely a contradiction.

I suppose, but really. How would the Daleks down there have been able to tell that the taskforce they'd send in weren't just inhabitants on the planet?

SayHelloToMrBullet:

Abandon4093:

-Why did they think the needed THE PREDATORS help because someone was playing music.

I agree that this is all very strange. At the start the daleks tell the doctor to save them, then they play him the broadcast, and only then after he tells them that the insane daleks could get out do they decide to destroy the asylum. From this I guess that the daleks always wanted to destroy the asylum, and then a strange transmission started playing from somewhere it shouldn't have been. So I guess they decided enough was enough. But yeah it's still strange.

It's flat out stupid that they'd go to the trouble of catching their worst enemy just to send him down to the asylum for some strange music anyway.

SayHelloToMrBullet:

Abandon4093:

-Why was that guy actively rummaging around on the surface of the planet one year after being dalekified.

Scavenging parts maybe? I get that it was supposed to be a red herring for the viewer, but you're right, it is a bit silly.

I just don't buy that at all. Remember that they said that the humans just live out their normal lives until they're needed. Not knowing that they're converts. So essentially that guy would have been stuck in the one day loop of looking outside the crashed ship after having talked with his friends earlier that day. That's why he didn't know they were all dead when they went in.

Had the beams woken him up from sleeping in the snow then it would have made more sense. As it is he's just been rummaging around outside the ship for a year thinking it's been day.

SayHelloToMrBullet:

Abandon4093:

-The cold may preserver bodies but it does this by freezing them.

Kinda not sure what you mean here. Could you clarify please?

When they went in the ship and they realised they were all dead his eventual reaction was "I forgot that, I died outside so the cold preserved my body." which would have happened. But it would also have frozen him solid too.

SayHelloToMrBullet:

Abandon4093:

-Aren't Daleks obsessed with homoginy to the point that they eradicate slight mutations even if they're beneficial. So why would they go to the effort of converting humans and leaving them both looking and acting human.

They don't seem like true daleks so they're probably no danger to the dalek way of life. I'd imagine that their only use would be to act as spies for the daleks. Meanwhile in they asylum they act as cheaply made security.

I suppose that makes sense. Still, seems a tad out of character.

SayHelloToMrBullet:

Abandon4093:

-Why did they fully convert that woman, he said it's because she was smart and daleks needs smart. But the Daleks down there weren't firing on all cylinders to begin with and they don't want smart, they want conformity to an ideal.

Clearly there was a lot more going on in that asylum than what we saw. We kinda have to make up our own answer here. Steven Moffat probably didn't explain it cause he didn't think it was important.

That's a fair point I suppose, they may expand on it when that woman eventually becomes the companion.

SayHelloToMrBullet:

Abandon4093:

-How did she not realise she had been converted.

She knew, but she couldn't handle the truth so she made up her own reality. People in real life have issues similar to this - for example a person might imagine that a dead loved one is still living, because they can't stand the truth.

But her brain shouldn't have been functioning like a humans. The conversion process is mostly converting the way a creature thinks so it's more like a Dalek.

SayHelloToMrBullet:

Abandon4093:

-Why wasn't her mind fully converted yet still had access to the pathway.

The daleks for whatever reason needed her mind left alone. I imagine that they just hooked it up to their mainframe thing.

Then it certainly wasn't a full conversion, the whole point of the Dalek race is that they wish to spread their way of thinking. I have a sneaking suspicion they were originally and allegory of colonial Britain, but that's neither here nor there really.

SayHelloToMrBullet:

Abandon4093:

-Why was she in the centre of a very posh (by their standards) room and not just thrown away with the others.

She was special: she was a human fully converted into a dalek. I'm fairly certain that this sort of thing is incredibly rare.

Yea, I think they mostly exterminate other things, but any conversion are supposed to be full conversion.

But fair point on the special bit. I wonder if they're leaving all these questions open to be expanded upon at a later time? That would be interesting.

SayHelloToMrBullet:

Abandon4093:

-Why did the Doctor have a veritable break down because a few angry geriatric Daleks with no weapons decided to edge towards him at tortoise speed.

I'm not sure if you know this but those plunger things on the daleks can kill people. And even if the doctor could out-maneuver one dalek, you have to remember that the entire room was filled with them.

I knew they used them for something, but the Doctor had been in much worse situations than that and he'd never broke down like a little girl before.

The room may have been full of Darleks, but they were all hundreds of years old. Rusted and malfunctioning. He had plenty of time to use his screwdriver(desus ex machina) to regigalify their quantum piston tuggers and reverse the polarity of their on board arse crumpets. Whist making witty quips about their age.

SayHelloToMrBullet:

Abandon4093:

-When she realised she wasn't human why did she down the shields right away instead of letting the doctor get back the port pad without having to do a dramatic run.

Good question. Maybe she was still upset with the doctor for telling her the truth.

I think it's more likely that Moffat need an excuse to get the Doctor to run through explosions.

SayHelloToMrBullet:

Abandon4093:

-How does one Dalek with with a malfunctioning brain delete something as important as the Doctors existence from the minds of all Daleks. Surely such capabilities should be reserved for the higherups.

The daleks are a hive mind. They would all have access to the data stuff. No ordinary dalek however would remove anything.

But having access to the pathway and having access to the Delete function are two different things. There have been plenty of rogue Daleks before. Why didn't they just delete their own existence from the pathway so no other Daleks would bother them?

SayHelloToMrBullet:

Abandon4093:

-Why was her voice normal over the intercoms.

Maybe because it was the way she remembered her voice, and therefore that was they way it sounded? I dunno, another good question.

If the intercom recorded her actual voice then this makes no sense, but I suppose it's not too infeasible to assume that she was subconsciously projecting her voice via direct connection to the system or something.

SayHelloToMrBullet:

Overall there are a few plot holes, inconsistencies and other stuff with the episode. But you know what? I still liked it. I've found that when you start questioning everything in Doctor Who your head starts to hurt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8w95xIdH4o

^When it comes to Doctor Who, I try to live by this philosophy (skip to 0:40).

(also if anyone can tell me how to embed the video in this post, that would be awesome :D )

Yous enter [ youtube *followed by the end of the link* =x8w95xIdH4o ] As one word to embed videos.

Honestly? I kinda liked it.

Okay, it did have it's disappointing moments - the promo material suggested we might get to see the Special Weapons Dalek, but only one appears as a background prop in the whole episode. Oh, and that "Dalek Parliament" thing. As someone above mentioned, couldn't the latter have bought Davros or (more suited to the story) the Emperor Dalek from Season 1 back. Dalek Parliament...does not sit so well. Do the Daleks now have terrible politicans, elections every five years and a house that's unable to form a consensus on anything ever?

What's even scarier is that the Dalek equivalent of David Cameron may very well exist. Be afraid people!

On the other hand though, some people are going to lament it, but the rusty looking Daleks making up the vast body of the Parliment suit it, with the Mighty Morphin' Power Daleks taking up Command Positions (a Dalek Supreme at least was present, and there were quite a few of the red ones running around) kinda suits. The set design was also pretty good, the story was well paced and I didn't really see the end twist coming (well, I did, but it wasn't what I was expecting).

All in all, not the best episode, but not a bad start. Season 7 may get me back to liking New Who again.

However, they're probably going to jinx all that next episode -_-

Sir Shockwave:
Honestly? I kinda liked it.

Okay, it did have it's disappointing moments - the promo material suggested we might get to see the Special Weapons Dalek, but only one appears as a background prop in the whole episode. Oh, and that "Dalek Parliament" thing. As someone above mentioned, couldn't the latter have bought Davros or (more suited to the story) the Emperor Dalek from Season 1 back. Dalek Parliament...does not sit so well. Do the Daleks now have terrible politicans, elections every five years and a house that's unable to form a consensus on anything ever?

What's even scarier is that the Dalek equivalent of David Cameron may very well exist. Be afraid people!

On the other hand though, some people are going to lament it, but the rusty looking Daleks making up the vast body of the Parliment suit it, with the Mighty Morphin' Power Daleks taking up Command Positions (a Dalek Supreme at least was present, and there were quite a few of the red ones running around) kinda suits. The set design was also pretty good, the story was well paced and I didn't really see the end twist coming (well, I did, but it wasn't what I was expecting).

All in all, not the best episode, but not a bad start. Season 7 may get me back to liking New Who again.

However, they're probably going to jinx all that next episode -_-

Come on, it's Dinosaurs on a Spaceship! When did such concept ever go wrong?
http://dinocrisis.wikia.com/wiki/Dino_Crisis_3
Except for that, where?

I thought it was quite clever actually (ignoring that they had Amy and Rory split up almost purely so they could have them join back together in a 3 minute scene, so stupid).

My friend and I have a theory that Oswin was a Time Lord (possibly the Doctor's daughter from that episode aaaages back? Remember, the plot thread they just dropped?), which is why the Daleks wanted to fully convert her, but also why her psyche survived the conversion.

Well I don't think we'll be seeing those nasty Daleks again.........oh wait. Usually been totally eradicated keeps them at bay for a season. I expect they'll be back soon enough given they just have sudden amnesia somehow

Aeon_COR:
For a moment i thought:

The old show had other time lords, robot dogs, aliens, android assassins, men.
I just want some more variety in the companions rather than girl infatuated with mysterious doctor, even Rory and Amy, while a nice change, out side of their own story arcs act exactly the same as the other 2005+ companions.

Apart from the occasional bad scripting, the companion remains on average, the worst part of New Who for me, mainly for the reasons you described.

6th And Silver:

-The Power of Motherfucking Love. This is the OTHER biggest problem I have with the Moffat seasons. Seems like "love" is saving the day every other goddamn episode. And it is ALWAYS cringe-inducing levels of bad. I mean, there's cheesy and then there's....sappy.

"Love Conquers All" is a telltale sign of hack writing, and a warning that this shit is going to go south, FAST.
IMO, Any writer that uses "love" as "magic plot resolution", needs to re-evaluate their script, or be replaced.

I am a long time Whovian, but I have given up on the nes series being as good as the old ones. You should all too!

6th And Silver:
The Power of Motherfucking Love. This is the OTHER biggest problem I have with the Moffat seasons. Seems like "love" is saving the day every other goddamn episode. And it is ALWAYS cringe-inducing levels of bad. I mean, there's cheesy and then there's....sappy.


What about the power of love?

Well I enjoyed it. The status of Amy and Rory's marriage at the start kind of came out of nowhere though. Although from glancing at a few of the other posts (as much as I could tolerate before becoming physically ill from all the negativity), it looks like there was indeed something I missed.

Froggy Slayer:

Flamezdudes:

Because you want to, you know you do. Sexy, sexy Dalek's with their plummer... things.

WHAT DO DALEKS FIND SEXY
HOW DO DALEKS DO FOREPLAY
DO DALEKS EVEN HAVE GENDERS

WE WILL PROCREATE!

So this puts the new companion in the position of being a younger, prettier River Song. She's brilliant and the first time the Doctor meets her is the day that she dies. This of course will be looming over the Doctor's head through the whole period that he's with her - will this adventure be the one where she crash lands onto a dalek prison planet? Also the whole "love conquers tech" bit was old when it was done with the cybermen. Lets not retread old plotlines please.
While these are gripes, this was still an ok episode. I liked the idea of old busted daleks that were survivors of past encounters with the Doctor - that they too can go crazy from PTSD.
Also... eggs..EGGGGSSSSS!

I thought it was great.
Don't have anything else to say about it.

Good GOD @ some of the posts on this thread and their complaints. And I thought Mass Effect fans were obnoxious when it came to gripes. But this. Geez! I mean, the episode was by all means mediocre, that's for certain. There were some things to like, and some things not to like. You know what? That's been pretty much EVERY episode of Doctor Who for me, ever. This part was good, but this part wasn't. Need I remind you all that that there's an episode called "Love & Monsters"? It was so bad you probably deleted it from your memories and will now be traumatized the moment you remember that abortion of an episode. This weeks episode in particular, was an okay episode, plain and simple.

But this whole picking it apart, and calling Moffat a hack, and "it's not as good as the old ones!" Criminy! Give it a rest! Is all of this stuff really THAT offensive to your sensibilities? Is the MST3k Mantra really that dead? What in the hell is so damn upsetting about an episode that is, above all else, just "kinda meh"?

Froggy Slayer:
I don't think that Moffat writes Daleks well enough.

Well, he does hate them due to their overuse. RTD did what they did with Monkey Island continuation far too much and made it too much of a fan service. Moffat wants to evolve things. If everything is just Daleks again, what's the point? He's always tried to create new monsters, though I fear his Weeping Angels may be going down the overused road again.

runic knight:

Froggy Slayer:

Flamezdudes:

Because you want to, you know you do. Sexy, sexy Dalek's with their plummer... things.

WHAT DO DALEKS FIND SEXY
HOW DO DALEKS DO FOREPLAY
DO DALEKS EVEN HAVE GENDERS

WE WILL PROCREATE!

THE INTERCOURSE SHALL PROCEED. TROJAN-CLASS PROTECTION ENABLED. THRUSTERS ACTIVATED. PROCREATE. PROCREATE.

Oh god, I'm cracking up

Ldude893:

runic knight:

Froggy Slayer:

WHAT DO DALEKS FIND SEXY
HOW DO DALEKS DO FOREPLAY
DO DALEKS EVEN HAVE GENDERS

WE WILL PROCREATE!

THE INTERCOURSE SHALL PROCEED. TROJAN-CLASS PROTECTION ACTIVATED. PROCREATE. PROCREATE.

Oh god, I'm cracking up

This is the first post I saw upon clicking this thread.

image

Ldude893:

THE INTERCOURSE SHALL PROCEED. TROJAN-CLASS PROTECTION ENABLED. THRUSTERS ACTIVATED. PROCREATE. PROCREATE.

Oh god, I'm cracking up

How the hell do you intend to procreate if you're using protection?

Maeta:

Froggy Slayer:
I don't think that Moffat writes Daleks well enough.

Well, he does hate them due to their overuse. RTD did what they did with Monkey Island continuation far too much and made it too much of a fan service. Moffat wants to evolve things. If everything is just Daleks again, what's the point? He's always tried to create new monsters, though I fear his Weeping Angels may be going down the overused road again.

I don't mind him using them sparingly, but he could at least write them well. Or have used that Special Weapons Dalek prop he had...

All I can say about that episode is the daleks seem to be very democratic now with a parliament and all that.. and two, they have the worst plans to kill the doctor ever, they could just have exterminated him on the ship but no he must go down to the planet and deactivate a useless shield so we can blow him up at long range.

Honestly if the shield can stop missiles why didn't it stop a crashing space ship..

Maeta:

Froggy Slayer:
I don't think that Moffat writes Daleks well enough.

Well, he does hate them due to their overuse. RTD did what they did with Monkey Island continuation far too much and made it too much of a fan service. Moffat wants to evolve things. If everything is just Daleks again, what's the point? He's always tried to create new monsters, though I fear his Weeping Angels may be going down the overused road again.

The thing that annoyed me about the weeping angels is that he introduced the whole "An image of an angel becomes an angel" BS in order to make them more scary. It didn't work.

OT: I liked the episode, but I'm just a casual watcher of Dr. Who, so i don't get all the rages based on past/old episodes. I liked Oswin, and the twist caught me off guard. The whole Powa of love thing was tacky, but to be expected by now. I do find it strange the doctor dropped them off, only to pick them up in the next episode.

It's the little things that made this episode for me though- "I can see you.", the bitchiness of Amy/Rory in the divorce scene, and how frightening the dalek humans were, I thinks its the cracking noise their necks made when they "turned"

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