People w/ previous rational dislike for The Legend of Korra have now joined the irrational side

EDIT: Guys, this isn't a thread to discuss legitimate gripes. I used to be called a Korra hater during the Book 1 stupid romance sub-plots, pro-bending overfocus, etc. and the general Book 2 disaster minus the good bits. Believe me, I get it. To clarify properly, so everyone understands the discussion I am trying to start, I'm just going to quote responses to people I made later in the thread.:

So, when The Legend of Korra started it had mixed to positive reception. It had gone steampunk and people were used to the mystical feeling of ATLA. While parts of the Avatar world were going through a sort of Industrial Revolution, there was so much focus on the mystical aspects that the dissonance transitioning was understandable. Korra's "opposite" personality of Aang's sounded promising, but between the dumb romance decisions (made all around, not just by her especially since the romance sub-plot was stupid and cliche to begin with) and general dumb decisions it just didn't work. She wasn't an unlikable likable character. Sometimes she just felt unlikable. I still liked her though it was more of an uncertain sort of like, but the dislike was understandable. The bender-non bender clash is never addressed as in depth as it should be despite having legitimacy and being talked about as far back as ATLA. Amon was a complex villain who sounded more and more evil and less legitimate towards the end and his character development drops the ball towards the end on top of that. Korra's problems get fixed too easily at the end too.

That's just Book 1. Book 2 retreads a lot of Book 1 especially Korra growing as a character. Unalaq practically screams he is a villain. Tenzin's family side plot, Wan's episodes, Varrick, the spirit world, and maybe Korra's cousins and their interaction with Bolin are the only redeeming aspects of the many other problems.

The thing is rational points like this (EDIT) often, though not always obviously (END EDIT), aren't being made anymore. There are many possible reasons for this happening. For one thing, in an attempt for (EDIT) SOME (END EDIT) to explain their continued dislike to themselves as (EDIT) SOME (END EDIT) aren't quite sure why they still feel like this, these same people are relying increasingly on nitpicks (There are obviously exceptions to this, like I said there are legitimate gripes, rational arguments. I meant that nitpicks are being increasingly relied upon not ALWAYS. Yet another EDIT due to a ridiculously high number of misinterpretations from comments in this thread) (which was the only way I could criticize Book 3's ending and that's saying something as people tend to consider me one of the most critical, harsh people they know when it comes to stories) and (END EDIT) OFTEN, AGAIN NOT ALWAYS, things that can only really be justified as interpretations. I suppose some people will never get over how different the show feels in its tone despite retaining much ATLAness and that gets to them. There are plenty of other possible reasons of course; many I'm sure are understandable even if the points being made to defend these perspectives are (EDIT)OFTEN (END EDIT) iffy at best much of the time.

Examples:

1) People say the argument between Lin and Su about their plan of attack seems superficial, a way for the writers to keep them bitter at each other. In reality, they're frustrated at the situation and it's common for arguments on strategies to turn out like this. It's not like their rivalry was completely solved either. Even with Lin's admiddetly fast recovery she still jokes to Su that she'll try not to attack her next time and that she'd probably be in prison if she stayed in Republic City.

2) People complain that Bolin was a lavabender out of the blue. The side plot about him not being able to metalbend was obviously going to lead to something. It's a classic fakeout. On the flipside there have been rational arguments that it was an asspull to get the characters out of a situation, so that's fair. I'm personally OK with it as it fits his character. Lavabending fits a more jockish character, Bolin tends to have his "ah-ha" moments as a result of his boldness and aloof personality, and it fits his loose pro bending style since it's not quite liquid, not quite solid.

3) People say that the Red Lotus should have known metalbenders were coming and had a different type of poison ignoring the time period they are in. Poison knowledge is not at the level current society is at, it's probably one of their few options. There's also the fact this was planned a long time ago and Zaheer's crew didn't get out of prison so long ago. It all had to hastily be assembled. They were hoping for a quick finish rather than Korra managing to escape.

I could go on. Every other irrational, not rational as there are some rational complaints just to reiterate, complaint is completely interpretation based. When I say this I mean there are no visual cues or dialogue or evidence or classic story tropes to leave things up to interpretation. They are clear cues, as close to objectivity as a story can get with its cues, something one could argue the above examples do have, making arguing against them difficult (Due to some confused responses this has been edited for clarity from its original wording) [1]. I've cited enough examples, so I won't bother here. There was plenty wrong with Book 3. In this show's attempts at being nuanced it often strawmans philosophies through a character. Zaheer ends up simply being too crazy that he loses a lot of sympathy. This only really pays off if it all comes together in Book 4 with a competent villain, preferrably someone who is a really good bad villain. If this happens it will probably bring the ultimate questions together. With the world the way it is, is the Avatar needed and are these wide-spanning, systematic sociopolitical problems going to come to a head? Book 4 might already be off to a great start with the possibility that Korra will be shown recovering from erethism, a neurological disorder involving mercury poisoning.

The Avatar creators may not be the best writers though they have their moments, but they are great worldbuilders and visionaries. It's not a coincidence that the best overall book yet, to me anyway, had them not credited as writers for quite a few episodes. I personally don't think there is as much blame to be placed on Nick's unsure greenlighting and marketing affecting the story as other people believe. As I've said before on The Escapist, the creators only wrote 2 fan favorite episodes of ATLA compared to the many other ones written by other people. Anyway, Amon may have had more complexity, yet none of the villains here lose enough of themselves to feel as bad of a ball drop and the main characters finally shine the way they should have much earlier. It would have been really nice to see Korra grow from something closer to, though not exactly at the level of, her Book 3 start to her Book 3 end. There are some truly great sights whether we're talking about scenery like Zaofu or just nice action shots and touches like when P'Li arcs her combustion shot during the Zaofu fight.

I don't say any of this to discredit people. I just find the development of this interesting. What do any Korra fans here think? Have you been seeing more irrational hate than usual? Are we not getting as many well founded discussions as we used to?

[1] Man, I should have used better examples.

You can't disprove 3 alleged reasons why people dislike the series and say they're all full of baloney.
I had a few reasons myself for disliking Season 3

1) Something that came to mind very early on in the season is how Korra forgets she can energy bend. Not only could she have brought back the air nation on her own, but she could have taken away air bending from that terrified man on the bridge who was begging her to do it.

2) Why do villains suddenly become less threatening when they become good guys? Eska and Desna were pretty strong antagonists in S2 but now they can't even win a 2v1 against a waterbender?

3) Korra's naivete and aggressiveness from S1 is still present. For gods sake when is she going to change from angry teenager with a 'shoot first ask questions later' attitude? all of S1 they try and get her to calm down to learn air bending, S2 has her get more in touch with the spiritual side and still she's aggressive as hell. I just feel like there's no growth at all, when she's confronted in the first few episodes by the president of republic city she grabs the guy's chin! that's way outta line, heck you don't even think about doing that in real life. And then the scene where she just assumes that because she saw Zaheer in the spirit world once, he HAS to be there all the time! especially now when he has essentially killed his mole and only reason for going there!

4) Platinum Bending, seriously what's the deal with that? Korra breaks free of the platinum cuffs in the finale (her feet cuffs, not the arm cuff she ripped off the cave wall). Pretty sure the avatar state just enhances your bending, not turn you into superman.

Personally I haven't really seen anyone complain about 1 or 3, though that's just personal experience.

Even if that is an old argument Korra is simply missing an overarching enemy.
Making the firelord this ominous figure helped the last airbender tremendously and korra is missing that.
So they have to make up new enemies all the time and the villain from season 2 has to be "more evil" than that from season 1, the villain from season 3 has to top even that of.
And with rising power levels of the enemy of course they have to escalate the powers and dramas of the hero/heroes as well and thats what breaking the series 1 episode at the time.
Honestly, in season 2 we had the spiritual representation of evil itself, they completely wrote themselves into a corner with that cause it was basically the Avatars version of the devil. And where are you supposed to go once you fought and defeated the devil?

So i see things like platinum bending, lava bending, unnecessary illogical character drama and stuff like that as the producers grasping at straws hoping to find something that the fans will like and think is cool. And they long since passed they point where they actually put in the effort to makes those things work within the narrative of the series.
And it will only get worse the longer the series runs and fails to reconnect to its audience.

On topic: I have my problems with Korra. Most of them are really nitpicking since the third got rid of my biggest complaint (because I realised that it was intentional).

jamail77:

2) People complain that Bolin was a lavabender out of the blue. The side plot about him not being able to metalbend was obviously going to lead to something. It's a classic fakeout. On the flipside there have been rational arguments that it was an asspull to get the characters out of a situation, so that's fair. I'm personally OK with it as it fits his character. Lavabending fits a more jockish character, Bolin tends to have his "ah-ha" moments as a result of his boldness and aloof personality, and it fits his loose pro bending style since it's not quite liquid, not quite solid.

As a matter of fact, it was properly hinted at during the last half of the season. Precisely: I knew Bolin would become a lavabender during the scene where he is captured in the truck and talks to Ghazaan about their activities in jail. Since it was already established that bending is also a state of mind (and thus also affected by personality traits) it hit me: While Bolin displays some earthbender traits established during the first series he is more loose and relaxed, at some point he even reacts like an airbender. He simply does not fit the typical earthbender stereotypes. The small scene with Ghazaan showed that they at least share some personality traits through which I called BBolins affinity for lavabending.

Keoul:

1) Something that came to mind very early on in the season is how Korra forgets she can energy bend. Not only could she have brought back the air nation on her own, but she could have taken away air bending from that terrified man on the bridge who was begging her to do it.

I'd bring up the idea that she actually doesn't know how to energy bend. She only did it during the Avatar state where one can assume that Aang did it there (we saw previous Avatars take control with consent). It was also never shown that energy bending has the ability to give people a random bending affinity, she only restored damage done by Amon (which can be also argued through use of Bloodbending).

TheKasp:

I'd bring up the idea that she actually doesn't know how to energy bend. She only did it during the Avatar state where one can assume that Aang did it there (we saw previous Avatars take control with consent). It was also never shown that energy bending has the ability to give people a random bending affinity, she only restored damage done by Amon (which can be also argued through use of Bloodbending).

Well she isn't necessarily in the avatar state when she gives back Lin's bending. Aang didn't go into avatar state the first time he did it to Ozai but he did the 2nd time with Yakone, a past life did not teach Aang how to energy bend so it doesn't really make sense for it to be the avatar state, therefore energy bending makes you shiny like similarly to the avatar state, but isn't the same thing.
Also when a past avatar takes control, they project a hologram of themselves so it looks like they are there, flesh and blood. This is seen with Roku controlling Aang and helping him escape that temple and with Kyoshi possessing Aang (without consent I might add).

Energy bending does have the power to give people bending, we saw this in season two where we learned that the power to bend the elements were given to people by lion turtles via energy bending, the same technique a lion turtle taught Aang.

To be honest, I feel like a lot of what you might be seeing are people who were burned so badly by Season 2 that they're now bitter against Season 3. They don't want to get their hopes up again just to have them dashed.

I'll be honest, that's where I am right now. I REALLY didn't like season 2, especially the entire subplot with Bolin, which basically was "but emotional abuse is funny when it's a dude being abused!", followed up by the Bolin we all love and know turning into a completely different character for no given reason. That pretty much made me give up on LoK because I was just so disgusted. I've been trying to get up anything like excitement for book 3 but it's damn hard to do.

The irrational complaints are probably coming from people who feel like the straw breaking the camel's back has already come and gone. What might seem like minor nitpicks to you are probably more confirmation for them that Bryke is messing it up. I'm not saying that they're all legit, just saying that people who are complaining in this way are probably already deeply frustrated and have already lost faith in Bryke, so that makes it a lot easier for them to get hung up on things that seem minor to you.

Keoul:

4) Platinum Bending, seriously what's the deal with that? Korra breaks free of the platinum cuffs in the finale (her feet cuffs, not the arm cuff she ripped off the cave wall). Pretty sure the avatar state just enhances your bending, not turn you into superman.

.

well metal bending isn't metal bending, its simply earth benders bending the mineral deposits left over from shoddy and uneven smelting. The reason metal benders can't bend platinum (or what the avatar universe calls platinum) is simply because it's too pure and lacks the amount mineral deposits that normal metal has. I just assumed that korra could break her platinum cuffs simply because the avatar state gave her greater control over the elements and allowed her to bend metal with less impurities in it.

Keoul:

Energy bending does have the power to give people bending, we saw this in season two where we learned that the power to bend the elements were given to people by lion turtles via energy bending, the same technique a lion turtle taught Aang.

just because lion turtles could doesnt mean the avatar can. giving someone a bending ability they werent born with might also be an ability that only lion turtles have.

another reason could be that not all benders can use all aspects of their respective elements. this may be no different.

i always assumed the first one to be true.

jamail77:

The thing is rational points like this aren't being made anymore. There are many possible reasons for this happening. For one thing, in an attempt to explain their continued dislike to themselves as they aren't quite sure why they still feel like this

Incorrect, I know damn well exactly why I continue to dislike the show, and Korra as a character, and have stated so multiple times, in great detail. However, after multiple responses from Korra defenders who would just brush away our responses with "Pssh, yall are just butthurt 'cause she's not Aang, get over it losers. You just want it to be ATLA." I'm honestly tired of having the discussion, and am of the opinion of telling people who make those responses some very unpleasant things. They're obviously not paying any attention to the long and detailed breakdowns of why we feel the show fails at being a good show, and just assume it's because of one reason alone. And I'm not going to continue trying to have a discussion with those people, as they clearly aren't making any effort.

jamail77:
these same people are relying increasingly on nitpicks (which was the only way I could criticize Book 3's ending

That might be the only way you can criticize it, but there are those of us who have some very nice reasons why we don't like how it ended.

jamail77:
and things that can only really be justified as interpretations.

All criticism is an interpretation, based on our personal reaction to the show. So this point seems sort of irrelevant. Now, granted, you can point to flaws in writing, and pacing, and other story structure elements, which are more objective criticisms, but in the end, it's still all "this is why I didn't like it" Which some people might disagree with, even if you can point out the flaws.

jamail77:
I suppose some people will never get over how different the show feels in its tone despite retaining much ATLAness and that gets to them.

And there it is. I've yet to see this post. Seriously, every time I've read through other posters who post complaints about the show, I never see this statement made. "It's not ATLA!! It's too different! I don't like it because of that!" I only ever see this from the other side, telling us that this is what we're saying.

jamail77:
There are plenty of other possible reasons of course many I'm sure are understandable even if the points being made to defend these perspectives are iffy at best much of the time.

Yes, there are many many reasons we don't like the show, that have nothing to do with it "not being ATLA", and we go into them at length. And yet, somehow, magically it seems, nobody seems to actually see these statements. It's almost like there is some new Wordbending going on.

jamail77:
1) People say the argument between Lin and Su about their plan of attack seems superficial, a way for the writers to keep them bitter at each other. In reality, they're frustrated at the situation and it's common for arguments on strategies to turn out like this. It's not like their rivalry was completely solved either. Even with Lin's admiddetly fast recovery she still jokes to Su that she'll try not to attack her next time and that she'd probably be in prison if she stayed in Republic City.

I didn't have any issue with this, as to me it just seemed to be a reflection of how they are different tactically, but still both very brilliant strategists.

jamail77:
2) People complain that Bolin was a lavabender out of the blue. The side plot about him not being able to metalbend was obviously going to lead to something. It's a classic fakeout. On the flipside there have been rational arguments that it was an asspull to get the characters out of a situation, so that's fair. I'm personally OK with it as it fits his character. Lavabending fits a more jockish character, Bolin tends to have his "ah-ha" moments as a result of his boldness and aloof personality, and it fits his loose pro bending style since it's not quite liquid, not quite solid.

I don't have an issue with Bolin learning lava bending. In fact, given the mixed gene pools in Republic city, where you have members of different nations having children, it seems a natural evolution that they might start mixing in odd ways. I mean Bolin's parents were a Fire bender, and an Earth Bender, and lava bending is sort of a mix of fire and earth. So, yeah, I have zero issue with that. Given he has a brother who is a fire bender makes it even more believable to me that he would pick up lava bending. Apparently fire and earth bending are very strong in their family.

My issue with that escape sequence is as follows:

The badguy made an entire volcano's worth of lava to eat up a mountain in a few moments of work? Holy shit are you kidding me?! Also, why would Bolin only lay down one barrier then run? In one sequence he shoves a rock barrier as they escape down stairs, which slows down the lava very well for several moments. So when it starts to come through, does he do it again, and again and again, making layers and layers of resistance to increase the slow down? No, he does it one more time, then yells out how it's not working, and they run. Sorry but it was working. Throw down a rock wall, step back 5 feet, do it again, and again, and again. Every time it slowed the lava, and the heroes got closer to safety. But no, they just let him do it twice, and then just give up on the strategy entirely.

jamail77:
3) People say that the Red Lotus should have known metalbenders were coming and had a different type of poison ignoring the time period they are in. Poison knowledge is not at the level current society is at, it's probably one of their few options. There's also the fact this was planned a long time ago and Zaheer's crew didn't get out of prison so long ago. It all had to hastily be assembled. They were hoping for a quick finish rather than Korra managing to escape. [/I]

I'm....not really sure what you are trying to say here. I don't really have a problem with the method by which they were trying to accomplish their goal. Poison is a widely used way of killing people in the world, and is a particular favorite of assassin and secret societies. My problem is how in the hell did they know this would work? Seriously, how the fuck did they know that this would trigger the Avatar state in Korra, and thus kill her? I don't recall that fact being public knowledge at any point in the history. It was in fact, a complete mystery, until one of the past lives of the Avatar told Aang about it directly. And I'm pretty sure he didn't go around broadcasting it to everyone. So how did these guys learn this? Are you telling me the White Lotus knew of it? Since they're an offshoot of the WLS, I guess that would make sense? But still, telling an entire organization about your one true weakness seems a bit far fetched.

jamail77:
I could go on. Every other irrational, not rational as there are some rational complaints just to reiterate, complaint is completely interpretation based. When I say this I mean there are no visual cues or dialogue or evidence or classic story tropes to indicate otherwise like one could argue the above examples do have

I...uh...what? Are you saying that there are no uses of tropes or story elements that can be pointed to in this season to criticize? Lol...no, sorry no. Way wrong. There are tons of them. In fact, that's one of the things that irks me about the season, and show in general. It paints with the Trope Brush so heavily, it's easy to predict what's going to happen, and there aren't any surprises. That's when tropes are a bad thing, when used poorly.

jamail77:
Zaheer ends up simply being too crazy that he loses a lot of sympathy.

Not to mention I call complete bullshit on him becoming the most powerful Airbender in thousands of years, unlocking ancient secrets of the art, having had ZERO training, and spending the last 13 years locked up in a cell Seriously, how in the hell did he learn that shit? I can buy him having Airbending all of a sudden, fine, but he unlocked at least 2, if not 3 secret air bending techniques that apparently even Tenzin didn't know. And we've established that Tenzin has a deep love and passion for Air bending culture and lore. And he's also had an entire life to learn airbending, but Zaheer, in the span of a few weeks, maybe a few months, learns to fly, kill people by sucking air from their lungs, and I think something else that was new. Yeah sorry, that's bullshit.

jamail77:
This only really pays off if it all comes together in Book 4 with a competent villain, preferrably someone who is a really good bad villain.

Nope, sorry, you can't rely on having another season of your show redeem the flaws in your current season. This show is obviously not working a large, over arcing storyline like ATLA, or any other number of shows that had it built into the framework. They're obviously just doing insular stories that are introduced and completed in 1 season. So if your villain sucks, he still sucks.

jamail77:
If this happens it will probably bring the ultimate questions together. With the world the way it is, is the Avatar needed

Oh I'm 100% certain that is going to be the arc they take, given Korra's super depressed state at the end. Having her be all mopey and self-destructive (again, see a pattern with how they leave her each season with some major problem she can be unsure about?) is the standard operating procedure. Season 2 ended with her being all sad and uncertain because she'd lost all the previous lives of the Avatar, and was on her own. Now she's got that, as well as "I'm a cripple, I'm useless to people now, I have no reason to liiiiive!" *rolls off cliff* And given how she still only ever tries to solve anything by blowing it up, being crippled in a wheelchair does sort of reinforce the idea that she's useless, because the one card she pulls out to solve her problems is now taken from her. Seriously, look at the end fight against Zaheer. She was a raging freak. She became a mindless, raging killing machine, oblivious to anything around her. She became the most dangerous, terrible thing in creation at that moment, and honestly, sort of proved Zaheer's point. What if someone even more *shudder* unstable than Korra became the Avatar? What if someone like Azula became Avatar? How would the world stop her? If she just went into the Avatar state, and went freakish godzilla on everyone, she would be the most terrifying thing ever. And Korra clearly has no self control, at all. She still just smashes everything in front of her, and doesn't care about the side effects of it, or the damage after. And then, THEN she has the audacity to try and say it's not her fault, when people call her on her stupid decisions. Like with the spirit problem in Republic city, or when she destroyed the airship and they crashed in the desert! She actually said "Oh! So I suppose you think this is my fault huh?" ....YES! YES IT IS YOUR FAULT! YOU DID IT!!

jamail77:
Book 4 might already be off to a great start with the possibility that Korra will be shown recovering from erethism, a neurological disorder involving mercury poisoning.

It might be off to a good start, but I doubt it. Given their track record, she's going to be bitter and angry, and snap at the people around her. And make stupid decisions based on rash judgements and hurt feelings, and her own sense of inadequacy. Which is how she's been operating since season 1. And frankly, after 3 seasons of it, I'm tired of them replaying this same song and dance with her. They keep trying to tell me in the show that she's grown up, and become wise and all that shit, but it's just not there. Not when you actually look at how she reacts to things, and how she responds, and her motivations.

jamail77:
The Avatar creators may not be the best writers though they have their moments, but they are great worldbuilders and visionaries. It's not a coincidence that the best overall book yet had them not credited as writers for quite a few episodes.

Not sure which season you are talking about as being "the best" but that's a subjective thing anyway. If you mean season 3, I would disagree personally. I felt 2 was better overall, just based on my enjoyment per episode.

jamail77:
I don't say any of this to discredit people. I just find the development of this interesting. What do any Korra fans here think? Have you been seeing more irrational hate than usual? Are we not getting as many well founded discussions as we used to?

You might not be getting as many well founded discussion as before. Like I said at the top, if the other people like myself are as tired as I am of explaining our dislike, and having it so casually disregarded by the Korra supporters as just "butthurt whining", then yeah, it makes me not give a shit about the discussion anymore. Many of us, have stated our piece, multiple times, over several years and seasons of the show. I can only say the same stuff so many times before I feel like I'm talking to the wall, and thus stop bothering.

Uhm, maybe people dislike Korra because they disliked the first two seasons, and thus haven't partaken in the third? It seems pretty rational to me. Once bitten, twice shy - why should someone go back to a show if it keeps disappointing them?

I mean, yeah, the third season could be awesome and great and everything, it could blow everyone away. But if they have to get through the first two seasons to get to it, then can you really blame people who drop out? "It gets better" isn't really a valid excuse. If someone has to wait for something to "get better," it's bad writing. Period. Good writing wouldn't drip feed quality in between floods of bad-to-mediocre material, and then give you all the good stuff. It would be good from the get-go. If Korra can't manage that, it isn't good writing.

Unless you're talking about people who have watched the third season and continue to dislike the show. In which case, all I have to say is - hey man, quality's subjective. Maybe they really don't like it, maybe they're pissed it's not Last Airbender. But it's not really your place to decide that for them.

Oh! And since we're talking about LOK in general.

Anyone else love how the final climactic battle of good vs chaos and evil, the Avatar didn't actually accomplish anything? xD

Seriously, she didn't defeat any of the enemies that were set to kill her.

Bolin and his brother (I can never remember his name he's so blank slate and forgettable), defeat Lava Guy and Water-Arms Lady. And the Air Bending nation (though I really say Genora specifically, since she was the driving force) defeated Zaheer.

All Korra did in the entire climax of her show was HULK SMASH!!! her way around the landscape, failing to accomplish anything other than collateral damage, over thinking her father was dead, when he actually wasn't. She was so blind by rage that she didn't even notice him when he yelled at her to tell her he was alive. xD

Yeah, forget season 3, it was lame, and ended lame.

Meh. I just ignore them and keep watching the show. I enjoy it very much (finally sat down to watch the last six episodes yesterday). I think Korra is a nice change of pace from Aang, and I like getting to see how things are changing in the world and finding out what happened to all the original Avatar characters.

Happyninja42:
Oh! And since we're talking about LOK in general.

Anyone else love how the final climactic battle of good vs chaos and evil, the Avatar didn't actually accomplish anything? xD

Seriously, she didn't defeat any of the enemies that were set to kill her.

Bolin and his brother (I can never remember his name he's so blank slate and forgettable), defeat Lava Guy and Water-Arms Lady. And the Air Bending nation (though I really say Genora specifically, since she was the driving force) defeated Zaheer.

All Korra did in the entire climax of her show was HULK SMASH!!! her way around the landscape, failing to accomplish anything other than collateral damage, over thinking her father was dead, when he actually wasn't. She was so blind by rage that she didn't even notice him when he yelled at her to tell her he was alive. xD

Yeah, forget season 3, it was lame, and ended lame.

Did Aang really accomplish anything at the end of Earth? If anything, he made it worse. He selfishly clung to Katara, only letting go when it seemed he had no other choice and then got his ass kicked so hard he almost died and gets his Avatar state blocked, sacrificing Iroh to escape. I assume you don't hold that against ATLA, possibly because Aang wasn't a "full" Avatar yet?
The theme of Change was the place of the Avatar in the new world, the fact that the Avatar didn't defeat the bad guy in the end could easily be a plot point. We'll have to wait and see.

Keoul:
You can't disprove 3 alleged reasons why people dislike the series and say they're all full of baloney.

Now, hold on a minute: I never tried to discredit any dislike for this show by providing three reasons and then strawmanning that logic to all people who dislike the show. Seriously, what was the point of me saying things like

The thing is rational points like this aren't being made anymore.

Every other irrational, not rational as there are some rational complaints just to reiterate

I don't say any of this to discredit people. I just find the development of this interesting. What do any Korra fans here think? Have you been seeing more irrational hate than usual? Are we not getting as many well founded discussions as we used to?

if I'm just going to be accused of this anyway. I knew this would happen, but so early in the thread. Wow. The purpose of those examples was to show the kind of logic I'm seeing.

Keoul:

I had a few reasons myself for disliking Season 3

2) Why do villains suddenly become less threatening when they become good guys? Eska and Desna were pretty strong antagonists in S2 but now they can't even win a 2v1 against a waterbender?

I find it bizarre you thought Eska and Desna were weaker. They looked stronger to me. I don't remember them ever managing to summon a huge icy maze fortressish thing in Book 2. They were going against quite the unique bender on top of it who was just trying to get past them rather than outright fight them. This is purely subjective though, so fair point, if from your perspective and not mine.

Keoul:

3) Korra's naivete and aggressiveness from S1 is still present. For gods sake when is she going to change from angry teenager with a 'shoot first ask questions later' attitude? all of S1 they try and get her to calm down to learn air bending, S2 has her get more in touch with the spiritual side and still she's aggressive as hell. I just feel like there's no growth at all, when she's confronted in the first few episodes by the president of republic city she grabs the guy's chin! that's way outta line, heck you don't even think about doing that in real life. And then the scene where she just assumes that because she saw Zaheer in the spirit world once, he HAS to be there all the time! especially now when he has essentially killed his mole and only reason for going there!

I actually found Korra to be far less agressive. Naive, sure. Aggressive, not as much and it wouldn't be her if she lost that completely. I don't think Book 1 Korra would have tried as hard as she did to calm down that guy on the bridge. She had much better and more heartfelt discussions with Tenzin even admitting she doesn't feel like a wise Avatar, like Wan. That was enough for me. She is still Korra though and if you didn't even like her a little bit in Book 1 you're not going to like her character maturing either because it's still her.

As for the Zaheer spirit world thing I thought it was pretty clear she was making a gamble. She came back fully acknowledged he wasn't there at the time. There's no reason to assume she thought he'd be there all the time. She never says he's 24/7; she just assumes he's there a lot. I would think the same thing frankly. He seems like the kind of guy who'd be there a lot.

Velventian:

So i see things like platinum bending, lava bending, unnecessary illogical character drama and stuff like that as the producers grasping at straws hoping to find something that the fans will like and think is cool. And they long since passed they point where they actually put in the effort to makes those things work within the narrative of the series.
And it will only get worse the longer the series runs and fails to reconnect to its audience.

undeadsuitor:

Keoul:

4) Platinum Bending, seriously what's the deal with that? Korra breaks free of the platinum cuffs in the finale (her feet cuffs, not the arm cuff she ripped off the cave wall). Pretty sure the avatar state just enhances your bending, not turn you into superman.

.

well metal bending isn't metal bending, its simply earth benders bending the mineral deposits left over from shoddy and uneven smelting. The reason metal benders can't bend platinum (or what the avatar universe calls platinum) is simply because it's too pure and lacks the amount mineral deposits that normal metal has. I just assumed that korra could break her platinum cuffs simply because the avatar state gave her greater control over the elements and allowed her to bend metal with less impurities in it.

Korra never platinum bended; she broke the chains. It has been stated in universe that the Avatar State is the combination of all their past lives knowledge and power focusing through their body plus Raava's power. Since she doesn't have her past lives connection anymore, it's just her and Raava's power, but that's still a lot of power. Korra is already a relatively physically strong character as it is. The creators have stated that the Avatar State is an all around power up anyway, including physical strength. Just look at this image of Aang pulling on Ozai's beard: image
He wouldn't do that unless he had the physical strength to back it up too.

I find this notion that she platinum bended frankly bizarre. Bending doesn't look like that. There were no motions, no visual cues, just a breaking of chains.

Velventian:
Even if that is an old argument Korra is simply missing an overarching enemy.
Making the firelord this ominous figure helped the last airbender tremendously and korra is missing that.

I agree that really worked for ATLA, yet people and the creators talk far more giddily about Azula. ATLA's nuances were all in between the larger, relatively more generic story. Korra is trying to be nuanced at its core. I'm not saying it always succeeds. She needs an overarching enemy, but if it went full Ozai I don't think it work again.

Harpalyce:

The irrational complaints are probably coming from people who feel like the straw breaking the camel's back has already come and gone. What might seem like minor nitpicks to you are probably more confirmation for them that Bryke is messing it up. I'm not saying that they're all legit, just saying that people who are complaining in this way are probably already deeply frustrated and have already lost faith in Bryke, so that makes it a lot easier for them to get hung up on things that seem minor to you.

It's not that I don't understand this: I cite a few possible reasons and mention there are many more understandable reasons. The purpose of this thread isn't to discuss what is it that is making people feel like this. The purpose is to get a general feel from the Korra community, whether likes or dislikers, on what kind of discussions they've been seeing.

Happyninja42:

jamail77:

The thing is rational points like this aren't being made anymore. There are many possible reasons for this happening. For one thing, in an attempt to explain their continued dislike to themselves as they aren't quite sure why they still feel like this

Incorrect, I know damn well exactly why I continue to dislike the show, and Korra as a character, and have stated so multiple times, in great detail. However, after multiple responses from Korra defenders who would just brush away our responses with "Pssh, yall are just butthurt 'cause she's not Aang, get over it losers. You just want it to be ATLA." I'm honestly tired of having the discussion, and am of the opinion of telling people who make those responses some very unpleasant things. They're obviously not paying any attention to the long and detailed breakdowns of why we feel the show fails at being a good show, and just assume it's because of one reason alone. And I'm not going to continue trying to have a discussion with those people, as they clearly aren't making any effort.

OK, I think you missed the part where I said that there are understandable reasons. I understand that you've had sour discussions on Korra, but that's no reason to lash out at me and latch on to one of my negative explanations. I never personally accused you of falling into that spectrum of dislikers. I perfectly understand some of the dislike. I really do; I even listed a few of my own gripes to help institute a feeling of mutuality. This thread is about gauging the negative reaction and how much of the negatives discussions are turning petty and irrational rather than respectful and well founded.

Happyninja42:

jamail77:
these same people are relying increasingly on nitpicks (which was the only way I could criticize Book 3's ending

That might be the only way you can criticize it, but there are those of us who have some very nice reasons why we don't like how it ended.

jamail77:
and things that can only really be justified as interpretations.

All criticism is an interpretation, based on our personal reaction to the show. So this point seems sort of irrelevant. Now, granted, you can point to flaws in writing, and pacing, and other story structure elements, which are more objective criticisms, but in the end, it's still all "this is why I didn't like it" Which some people might disagree with, even if you can point out the flaws.

Also, this feels very insulting and I don't appreciate it at all.

I am aware all criticism is an interpretation. That's not what I'm talking about at all. Did you ever play the game The Last of Us? Did you ever play the story DLC? There's a scene in there that

Some fans don't like this development for this character though. They try to come up with crazy excuses like she's just experimenting or it's just between friends. The thing is in a Reddit AMA two people who worked on The Last of Us explicitly stated that scene had a clear purpose and that was it. They then copped out and said it's beautiful how people latch onto stories and make them their own with their interpretations and they don't want to ruin that. This wasn't one of those moments though. The scene was clear. Some things have very obvious cues established from 1000s of years of storytelling, these are things you can't argue against. There are just too many cues to indicate what is going on to argue subjectivity. Criticism is subjective, interpretation is subjective, but scenes like that are not. They're clear. You can argue all that other stuff about Korra. I'm just fine with that. When there are obvious signs even the Avatar fans who can't write to save their life can see (Bolin lavabending was predicted early on by these fans as well) I just feel there's no excuse. I don't want to dismiss reasoning, but in cases of extreme clarity? I don't know. These are the same fans who thought Su was a traitor and nonsense like that. I don't even think the Avatar creators are that good at writing, as I said they're worldbuilders while their colleagues are the real writers, but there's a reason they write even the bad episodes and the bad fanfic fans don't.

Happyninja42:

jamail77:
There are plenty of other possible reasons of course many I'm sure are understandable even if the points being made to defend these perspectives are iffy at best much of the time.

Yes, there are many many reasons we don't like the show, that have nothing to do with it "not being ATLA", and we go into them at length. And yet, somehow, magically it seems, nobody seems to actually see these statements. It's almost like there is some new Wordbending going on.

I try to foster understanding as best I can. I'm not a diehard fan who hangs around on Tumblr or whatever site try to pin their problems on. I can have rational discussion, rational disagreement with you on this show if you want. You look like you're craving it after all the bad experiences.

Happyninja42:

My issue with that escape sequence is as follows:

The badguy made an entire volcano's worth of lava to eat up a mountain in a few moments of work? Holy shit are you kidding me?! Also, why would Bolin only lay down one barrier then run? In one sequence he shoves a rock barrier as they escape down stairs, which slows down the lava very well for several moments. So when it starts to come through, does he do it again, and again and again, making layers and layers of resistance to increase the slow down? No, he does it one more time, then yells out how it's not working, and they run. Sorry but it was working. Throw down a rock wall, step back 5 feet, do it again, and again, and again. Every time it slowed the lava, and the heroes got closer to safety. But no, they just let him do it twice, and then just give up on the strategy entirely.

Ghazan was established as incredibly powerful. When Bolin picked up lavabending it seemed to me he couldn't create lava; he could only redirect and mold existing lava. Ghazan can actually create it. As he tried to bury Asami, Bolin, Tenzin, and Mako he took down much of the temple. I can only see that as a nitpick. I'm sorry. You make excellent points and have clearly felt pain from your bad experiences discussing this show, yet that isn't integral enough to the characters, story, or structure to feel to me like anything but a nitpick. Bolins' small barrier is more legitimate than that. To be fair, he was earthbending ground tiles up into place. If he tried to earthebend more of the structure, like say the ground beneath the tiles in addition to the tiles or the walls, isn't there a possibility it could come down on them? That's not rhetorical: I really don't know.

I don't agree with your belief that it was slowing the lava though. Initially, it was. Then, when they give up and retreat into the side of the mountain we see the lava break through and go by faster than it was before, too fast for Bolin to summon another wall. That's just my interpretation though. Perhaps, I should watch that segment again and I'll understand where you're coming from :)

Happyninja42:

jamail77:
3) People say that the Red Lotus should have known metalbenders were coming and had a different type of poison ignoring the time period they are in. Poison knowledge is not at the level current society is at, it's probably one of their few options. There's also the fact this was planned a long time ago and Zaheer's crew didn't get out of prison so long ago. It all had to hastily be assembled. They were hoping for a quick finish rather than Korra managing to escape. [/I]

I'm....not really sure what you are trying to say here. I don't really have a problem with the method by which they were trying to accomplish their goal. Poison is a widely used way of killing people in the world, and is a particular favorite of assassin and secret societies. My problem is how in the hell did they know this would work? Seriously, how the fuck did they know that this would trigger the Avatar state in Korra, and thus kill her? I don't recall that fact being public knowledge at any point in the history. It was in fact, a complete mystery, until one of the past lives of the Avatar told Aang about it directly. And I'm pretty sure he didn't go around broadcasting it to everyone. So how did these guys learn this? Are you telling me the White Lotus knew of it? Since they're an offshoot of the WLS, I guess that would make sense? But still, telling an entire organization about your one true weakness seems a bit far fetched.

My point is in regards to peoples' (<EDIT) complaints about this scene. If you're having trouble understanding it I either should have worded it better and/or it's because you never thought such logic when watching that scene because (EDIT)you don't do mental gymnastics to find criticism the way those people do (EDIT).

This is another understandable point you have made. I would argue that it may not have been public knowledge, but it was known by those who were well read. Remember the Earthbending general who tried to coax Aang into the Avatar State back in ATLA?

I would also argue that there was very much a chance the poison would fail, kill her, and they'd just try something else when the next Avatar was born, hopefully not another failed kidnapping. By the end of Book 3 it's pretty clear Zaheer and crew are part of a cult. They're smart, but cults are insane. Everything was hastily put together.

Happyninja42:

jamail77:
I could go on. Every other irrational, not rational as there are some rational complaints just to reiterate, complaint is completely interpretation based. When I say this I mean there are no visual cues or dialogue or evidence or classic story tropes to indicate otherwise like one could argue the above examples do have

I...uh...what? Are you saying that there are no uses of tropes or story elements that can be pointed to in this season to criticize? Lol...no, sorry no. Way wrong. There are tons of them. In fact, that's one of the things that irks me about the season, and show in general. It paints with the Trope Brush so heavily, it's easy to predict what's going to happen, and there aren't any surprises. That's when tropes are a bad thing, when used poorly.

Uhhhh, no that is not what I meant at all. Boy, I really need to seek out a writing instructor or something. What I was saying is that are there are some things that have clear cues built upon by 1000s of years of storytelling. There are elements in stories that aren't subjective. Keep in mind I said elements, not all elements. In the end, your critique of a story is always subjective, but there are elements that have extreme clarity. To see what I mean go back to the part of my post that talks about The Last of Us.

Happyninja42:

jamail77:
Zaheer ends up simply being too crazy that he loses a lot of sympathy.

Not to mention I call complete bullshit on him becoming the most powerful Airbender in thousands of years, unlocking ancient secrets of the art, having had ZERO training, and spending the last 13 years locked up in a cell Seriously, how in the hell did he learn that shit? I can buy him having Airbending all of a sudden, fine, but he unlocked at least 2, if not 3 secret air bending techniques that apparently even Tenzin didn't know. And we've established that Tenzin has a deep love and passion for Air bending culture and lore. And he's also had an entire life to learn airbending, but Zaheer, in the span of a few weeks, maybe a few months, learns to fly, kill people by sucking air from their lungs, and I think something else that was new. Yeah sorry, that's bullshit.

Another understandable point! It's great to see someone with gripes that make sense. Mind you I've seen this complaint before, but you elaborated. To that end, I redirect you to (EDIT: I told you I was going to correct my spelling/wording/unfinished sentence mistake and it turns out I was just going to link you to the IGN interview with the two creators that I ended up citing somewhere else in the thread anyway.)

As you can see, Bryke intended to make it obvious that Zaheer was a martial artist master and since the bending arts are just an extension of yourself they believed that with his martial artist mastery and love of airbending culture he'd pick it up quick as if he had it longer than he did. Still, knowing the forms and actually having the ability are not the same and his power was raised a little higher than believability allows, I agree. However, I would argue Tenzin was clearly keeping him off balance during their fight and only lost with the intervention of the other three crew memebers. Zaheer held his own, but he was no match. And, honestly, I thought he managed to fly because that involves a state of mind Tenzin could not achieve rather than airbending mastery. "Enter the void" and all that mumbo jumbo. As for the suffocation, I'm sure many airbenders realized that application, but they were far too peace loving and gentle to go to such extremes. With all the Fire Nation skeletons we saw around Monk Gyatso in ATLA I wouldn't be surprised if used the suffocation technique.

Happyninja42:

jamail77:
This only really pays off if it all comes together in Book 4 with a competent villain, preferrably someone who is a really good bad villain.

Nope, sorry, you can't rely on having another season of your show redeem the flaws in your current season. This show is obviously not working a large, over arcing storyline like ATLA, or any other number of shows that had it built into the framework. They're obviously just doing insular stories that are introduced and completed in 1 season. So if your villain sucks, he still sucks.

I never said it should redeem flaws. If anything, I said the lackluster aspects of their villains better pay off when they culminate everything in Book 4. I happen to be very against the "It gets better mentality" to justify bad storytelling decisions in previous arcs. I hate people who suddenly love the bad romance sub plots and overfocus on pro-bending that could have spent building the sociopolitcal crises and bringing depth to the world because they planned this mature growth all along. I agree, it's still bad.

Happyninja42:

jamail77:
The Avatar creators may not be the best writers though they have their moments, but they are great worldbuilders and visionaries. It's not a coincidence that the best overall book yet had them not credited as writers for quite a few episodes.

Not sure which season you are talking about as being "the best" but that's a subjective thing anyway. If you mean season 3, I would disagree personally. I felt 2 was better overall, just based on my enjoyment per episode.

Book 2 was the most hated season out of all of them. Did none of

that bother you? What about the contrived detective plot to make Mako look good when the police force shouldn't have been so incompetent? Jinora 'Jesus' ex Machina? No?

Happyninja42:

jamail77:
I don't say any of this to discredit people. I just find the development of this interesting. What do any Korra fans here think? Have you been seeing more irrational hate than usual? Are we not getting as many well founded discussions as we used to?

You might not be getting as many well founded discussion as before. Like I said at the top, if the other people like myself are as tired as I am of explaining our dislike, and having it so casually disregarded by the Korra supporters as just "butthurt whining", then yeah, it makes me not give a shit about the discussion anymore. Many of us, have stated our piece, multiple times, over several years and seasons of the show. I can only say the same stuff so many times before I feel like I'm talking to the wall, and thus stop bothering.

Like I said, perfectly willing to have as calm a discussion as we both can muster.

There was more of your post I wanted to get to, but unfortunately I have to head to work.

Saetha:
snip: I've done enough quoting

I actually agree that good writing needs to be good writing from the start.

Sigh. Please read my responses to other people. I don't want to reiterate the whole thing again. Again, this thread isn't about judging people. It's not about discrediting people. Is my writing that all over the place? I'll even quote them for you for convenience:

And, yeah, I am mostly talking about people who saw Book 3 and still dislike the show.

giles:

Happyninja42:
Oh! And since we're talking about LOK in general.

Anyone else love how the final climactic battle of good vs chaos and evil, the Avatar didn't actually accomplish anything? xD

Seriously, she didn't defeat any of the enemies that were set to kill her.

Bolin and his brother (I can never remember his name he's so blank slate and forgettable), defeat Lava Guy and Water-Arms Lady. And the Air Bending nation (though I really say Genora specifically, since she was the driving force) defeated Zaheer.

All Korra did in the entire climax of her show was HULK SMASH!!! her way around the landscape, failing to accomplish anything other than collateral damage, over thinking her father was dead, when he actually wasn't. She was so blind by rage that she didn't even notice him when he yelled at her to tell her he was alive. xD

Yeah, forget season 3, it was lame, and ended lame.

Did Aang really accomplish anything at the end of Earth? If anything, he made it worse. He selfishly clung to Katara, only letting go when it seemed he had no other choice and then got his ass kicked so hard he almost died and gets his Avatar state blocked, sacrificing Iroh to escape. I assume you don't hold that against ATLA, possibly because Aang wasn't a "full" Avatar yet?
The theme of Change was the place of the Avatar in the new world, the fact that the Avatar didn't defeat the bad guy in the end could easily be a plot point. We'll have to wait and see.

Actually you assume wrong there pal. I was fairly annoyed with the whole "hang on to Kitara" thing, and how quickly he just raced his way through all the shakras. And considering how his finally letting go of that attachment, ended up letting him be the badass avatar, and it didn't amount to anything, annoyed me. So yeah, take your assumption somewhere else pal, you're wrong.

truthfully, the only critique I have about LoK is that even though it's clearly no longer a "mini-series" (as the first book was labeled to be) it still runs on a mini-series schedule. Which means that every book feels rushed since it has to introduce and cap off stories in rapid pace, leaving none of the character development and good filler that made the original series great in the first place.

I actually like the new setting better than the original and here is why.

The technology allows for the creation of guns and other innovative weapons of warfare that do not require Bending.

I know, I know, this sounds like the beginning of some edgy fanfic or something, but hear me out.

Lets compare Benders with knights. They are in a minority, they require a significant investment in time to train and against a non-Bender they were basically invincible.

Now, lets look at what happened to those knights with the advent of newer weapons, namely longbows and crossbows (the latter was even outlawed by a Pope for being too unsporting!). At the Battle of Agincourt, the flower of French chivalry was destroyed by a contingent of longbowmen from non-noble families. In the hands of a peasant with rudimentary training crossbows were able to pierce the armor of a knight and kill them.

Guns, as we know, were the ultimate evolution of these easy to use, inexpensive weapons and fits the current technology level of LoK well.

In continuing with the theme of change and the , Season 4 could be about how one nonbender invents the first gun and distributes it to nonbending partisans all over the world, prompting revolutions in destabilized areas such as the Earth Kingdom which leads to a spring of nations (As I recall, the Earth nation was quite large) of whom bending is not a defining point of their culture, like Republican City without the Metal benders.

What if these new nations, feeling vulnerable from the ancient regimes of the world, formed a sort of Federation and annexed Republican City which is on their boarders like Germany with Alsace-Lorraine, and began to threaten the balance of the world?

Unable to stand up to the efficiency in battle that comes with the deployment of mass firearms, the other nations started to modernize their armed forces and adapt ideas which lead to benders becoming more and more obsolete. What if this creates a situation in which the benders themselves now feel threatened and they end up become the partisans they fought against?

Just an idea.

To the OP, I'm not going to quote your quote of my quotes of your quote, because it's going to be a mess to try and clean up and minimize the thread size, so I'm just going to copy paste them here to save space and eyestrain.

Me- Not sure which season you are talking about as being "the best" but that's a subjective thing anyway. If you mean season 3, I would disagree personally. I felt 2 was better overall, just based on my enjoyment per episode.

You -"Book 2 was the most hated season out of all of them. Did none of

if I'm just going to be accused of this anyway. I knew this would happen, but so early in the thread. Wow. The purpose of those examples was to show the kind of logic I'm seeing."

I have no idea what you tried to say with this, as the first sentence is incomplete as posted on the thread, and refers to me accusing you of something, of which I have no idea what that is, in the context of what you quoted when you replied to it. Seeing as I didn't accuse you of anything, I'm just going to say that whatever your complete thought was, is incorrect in stating I accused you of something. You had mentioned previously about "the best season ever", but in the context of how you said it, it was not clear which season you meant. I simply pointed out that a statement like "the best season ever" is purely subjective, as personally I liked season 2 more than 1 or 3. I still hated lots of elements of it, but overall, watching the episodes, I had more fun and enjoyment with the stuff in season 2 compared to 3.

--------
You- Also, this feels very insulting and I don't appreciate it at all.

I am aware all criticism is an interpretation. That's not what I'm talking about at all. Did you ever play the game The Last of Us? Did you ever play the story DLC? There's a scene in there that

No I didn't play Last of Us, but I plan to, so I'm not clicking that link, sorry. Also, sorry that you feel insulted, but I'm not apologizing for what I said. Since you want to mention insults, I found it fairly insulting that you categorically declared all of our problems with the thing you like as "nitpicks". Which again goes back to my personal beef with people on your side of the Korra debate, just disregarding the very detailed reasons we have provided over time about why we dislike the show. Classifying all of our complaints as "nitpicks" starts the discussion off with a negative aspect. Yes you said you know some people have legit complaints, but like I said before, I've never seen these vacant complaints you are talking about. When I have the desire to actually browse these threads and see the discussions, the complaints I see are all fairly detailed, and thought out. So again, I don't know where these irrational complaints you keep saying are flooding the discussion are.
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Me - I...uh...what? Are you saying that there are no uses of tropes or story elements that can be pointed to in this season to criticize? Lol...no, sorry no. Way wrong. There are tons of them. In fact, that's one of the things that irks me about the season, and show in general. It paints with the Trope Brush so heavily, it's easy to predict what's going to happen, and there aren't any surprises. That's when tropes are a bad thing, when used poorly.

You - Uhhhh, no that is not what I meant at all. Boy, I really need to seek out a writing instructor or something. What I was saying is that are there are some things that have clear cues built upon by 1000s of years of storytelling. There are elements in stories that aren't subjective. Keep in mind I said elements, not all elements. In the end, your critique of a story is always subjective, but there are elements that have extreme clarity. To see what I mean go back to the part of my post that talks about The Last of Us.

I agree with you that there are elements of a story that are objective, and I said as much in my post. And again, like I said before, the complaints I see about Korra are not subjective ones, but mostly focus on very specific story elements and tropes, and how they are used poorly with her and the show in general.

------

You - "Another understandable point! It's great to see someone with gripes that make sense. Mind you I've seen this complaint before, but you elaborated. To that end, I redirect you to this.sfddsdsfds "

I have no idea what sfddsdsfds is, so I'm chalking that up to an error when copy pasting all the things you replied to in that thread. Understandable, as it was a lot that you replied to in one thread.

------

You -"I never said it should redeem flaws. If anything, I said the lackluster aspects of their villains better pay off when they culminate everything in Book 4. I happen to be very against the "It gets better mentality" to justify bad storytelling decisions in previous arcs. I hate people who suddenly love the bad romance sub plots and overfocus on pro-bending that could have spent building the sociopolitcal crises and bringing depth to the world because they planned this mature growth all along. I agree, it's still bad."

Ah, but again, you are assuming there will be some culmination in Book 4. This isn't a good assumption to use, as the track record of the show so far, is that each season is basically insular in the arcing plot. Aside from the basic premise of the characters acting in each season, nothing that happened in previous seasons has carried over. I don't count the finales, as they by design leave something there. But the stuff that happened in season 1 has no bearing at all on 2, and hasn't had any bearing on 3. I seriously doubt season 3's events will have much to do with season 4. They're likely going to introduce some new problem, and new threat, and they've already introduced the new thing for Korra to be sad and insecure about with the finale.

Seriously though, what is there to culminate in season 4? Like you said, the Bender/Non-Bender tension of season 1 has been totally forgotten, the events of season 2 are resolved, and aside from Unalak showing back up, there isn't anything to deal with. Season 3 introduced the spirit stuff...and then just sort of forgot it was there really. I'm sorry but I just don't see enough stuff there in the dredges of the previous seasons that could be woven together into something cohesive for 4.

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You - "My point is in regards to complaints about this scene. If you're having trouble understanding it I either should have worded it better and/or it's because you never thought such logic when watching that scene."

And you accused me of being insulting? Yes I had trouble understanding it because what you typed didn't make sense. Insulting my comprehension of logic doesn't help your argument at all.

Regarding the comment about the Red Lotus and using poison, like I said before, I didn't see any issue with them using it to try and kill the Avatar. My issue was with them knowing the very specific details of how the Avatar state works, and what it is weak against. And your comment about the Earth ruler guy, forcing Aang to go into the Avatar state doesn't really support your case. As I recall that episode, he asked Aang how he did it, and he told him that he doesn't really control it. In fact, if memory serves, they spent the entire episode trying to figure out how to trigger it. And all he learned was that when it comes to Aang, threatening Kitara will cause him to Avatar State. That tells him nothing about whether or not poison would trigger the Avatar to fight off the poison, and thus trap her in that state, allowing them to kill her. Not to mention them knowing that killing the Avatar in that state would kill the line forever.

----

You - "I try to foster understanding as best I can. I'm not a diehard fan who hangs around on Tumblr or whatever site try to pin their problems on. I can have rational discussion, rational disagreement with you on this show if you want. You look like you're craving it after all the bad experiences."

Eh, I can take it or leave it really. I don't care for the show enough to rant about it that much. I started a thread expressing my dislike back when season 3 started sure, but that was sort of right after a few episodes of pure frustration got to me, and I needed to vent. By this point, I've pretty much said my piece, and reiterated it too. I don't hate the show enough to continue to explain why I don't like it. Honestly though, my frustration is that the show is so close to being really awesome in it's own right. But it drops the ball in so many ways that it frustrates me to no end. I wanted to love the show, and Korra herself, and stated as much many times. But as the show is, I can't do it, because of how the story has been told so far, and the choices they've made.

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You - these same people are relying increasingly on nitpicks (which was the only way I could criticize Book 3's ending

Me - That might be the only way you can criticize it, but there are those of us who have some very nice reasons why we don't like how it ended.

You - Also, this feels very insulting and I don't appreciate it at all.

*shrugs* You said the only way you could criticize it was nitpicking, not me. I'm sorry that you feel it's impossible to criticize the finale in any way other than a nitpick, I disagree, and said so. I'm not apologizing if you found it insulting. You set up the blanket statement, I countered it.

Happyninja42:
if I'm just going to be accused of this anyway. I knew this would happen, but so early in the thread. Wow. The purpose of those examples was to show the kind of logic I'm seeing."

I have no idea what you tried to say with this, as the first sentence is incomplete as posted on the thread, and refers to me accusing you of something, of which I have no idea what that is, in the context of what you quoted when you replied to it. Seeing as I didn't accuse you of anything, I'm just going to say that whatever your complete thought was, is incorrect in stating I accused you of something.

I was responding to Keoul, not you. I looked back at my post and just checked to be sure I put that response beneath the proper quote and indeed it is under Keoul's quote block not yours. Unlike some other confusing moments when I had improper quote block placements, this was correctly placed beforehand. I can only assume that, unless I am so tired I am mixing reality with what I thought happened, you thought my entire post was a response to you and didn't notice the other user's name in the quote box.

Happyninja42:
You -"Book 2 was the most hated season out of all of them. Did none of

As for the "Did none of" thing, I was supposed to state issues I had with Book 2. My apologies. I'll try to fix that as soon as I can. Check back when it's fixed. (EDIT: Just fixed it. Reread that response if you're still interested)

And, you're not going to apologize? I don't need your apology honestly, but I have to wonder whether you see the problem with this or not:

Happyninja42:

That might be the only way you can criticize it, but there are those of us who have some very nice reasons why we don't like how it ended.

Wording like that tends to be meant as an insult. It can be meant as an insult to intelligence (I'm too stupid to do anything but criticize a bad story through nitpicking) or it can be meant as an insult to creativity or lots of ways really depending on intention and context. You may not have meant to be insulting, but judging from your other posts I wouldn't be surprised. I'll get to that in a bit. I just want to make it clear that I didn't feel insulted by your supposed great countering of my blanket statement, but the way you worded that.

Happyninja42:

Since you want to mention insults, I found it fairly insulting that you categorically declared all of our problems with the thing you like as "nitpicks". Which again goes back to my personal beef with people on your side of the Korra debate, just disregarding the very detailed reasons we have provided over time about why we dislike the show. Classifying all of our complaints as "nitpicks" starts the discussion off with a negative aspect. Yes you said you know some people have legit complaints, but like I said before, I've never seen these vacant complaints you are talking about.

I don't list the legit complaints because that's not the main purpose of this thread for one thing. This is about gauging how the discussions on Korra are going. I also did not categorically declare all problems people have as nitpicks. I mention nitpicks a lot because I have seen an uptick in nitpicks to justify criticism. I use a few example criticisms as demonstration of such nitpicks. Despite that I still acknowledge there is rational dislike. Nitpicks are things that concern inconsequential details, things that don't really affect the story structure, consistency, character personalities. There are plenty of good gripes that don't rely on nitpicks as I stated multiple times. For the other thing, I also already stated my own beefs to give a sense of mutual understanding. I could list some more if you want? The flying thing feels a little out of place despite the set up for it. It works, but it feels weird. The other villains of the crew never got enough attention to feel like anything beyond henchman. Mako should have known Kai was going to sneak off and keep an eye on him. He states he knew Kai was going to do something sneaky, but for someone with his supposed street smarts and detective skills he never thought to keep a serious look out. I thought Tenzin treating the airbenders the way he did because of Korra's advice was a little out of character.

Happyninja42:

I have no idea what sfddsdsfds is, so I'm chalking that up to an error when copy pasting all the things you replied to in that thread. Understandable, as it was a lot that you replied to in one thread.

Again, sorry about that. I'll try to correct that as soon as possible as well. (EDIT: Fixed. It turned out that the sfddsdsfds thing was just a placeholder I made. It's something I do in long posts to keep track of everything. I usually come back to them and fill in the blanks, but as I said I wrote that post right before going to work and was in a rush. I should have chosen a better time to write it. Luckily, I was just going to reference the IGN interview with the creators that I ended up referencing in this post anyway)

Happyninja42:
Ah, but again, you are assuming there will be some culmination in Book 4.

I say this because the creators said there will be some culmination. They stated the arcs stand alone, but the connections you can make between each season's issues was intentional. This is the only reference I can muster, sorry.

Happyninja42:
And you accused me of being insulting? Yes I had trouble understanding it because what you typed didn't make sense. Insulting my comprehension of logic doesn't help your argument at all.

I NEVER INSULTED YOUR COMPREHENSION OF LOGIC! I was referring to the point about a scene. I was actually complimenting you! People complained about the poison scene by completely ignoring the real parallel time, roughly 1920s, and how little people knew. They also ignore how hastily prepared things are in cults. You said you had no problems with that scene. What I was trying to say is that if you didn't understand such reasoning it's because you don't think in such a way, your logic is more sound and thought out. Really, despite the disagreements, in between it all, there are aspects of your responses that are very pleasant. You really think your responses out compared to what I'm used to. I'm sorry to get angry, but that's multiple misinterpretations between us (I ACKNOWLEDGE MY PART IN THAT) and it's getting frustrating. I'm just generally upset, not specifically at you.

Happyninja42:

That tells him nothing about whether or not poison would trigger the Avatar to fight off the poison, and thus trap her in that state, allowing them to kill her. Not to mention them knowing that killing the Avatar in that state would kill the line forever.

Well, Aang also told him his life had to be in legitimate danger. Heck, in the 2nd episode of Book 1 of ATLA Aang goes into the Avatar State after being submerged into the water, ready to drown with only Katara's screams reaching him. There were plenty of witnesses. I don't think the poison plan was well thought out, but I think there were some good assumptions and decently known knowledge to back it up.

Happyninja42:

Honestly though, my frustration is that the show is so close to being really awesome in it's own right. But it drops the ball in so many ways that it frustrates me to no end.

I agree here. What I find bizarre is that you accuse me of generalizing people then generalize Korra defenders despite the continual clarifications I make throughout my posts how I don't disrespect, I don't discredit, I try to foster understanding, I understand SOME of the dislike. This isn't a thread for me to voice the valid complaints and I could voice many more; I actually used to be attacked by people for being a Korra hater. I don't think Korra has reached the peak of what the universe deserves; I merely disagree on its level of improvement or lack thereof.

Happyninja42:

I'm sorry that you feel it's impossible to criticize the finale in any way other than a nitpick, I disagree, and said so. I'm not apologizing if you found it insulting. You set up the blanket statement, I countered it.

I never used the word impossible. It's true only I could nitpick. I stated multiple times in this thread legit complaints I understand whether that was in response to some of your gripes or others, I've lost track of what I've said to who. I even wrote something along the lines of "That is a great point you made, specifically there". It really feels unfair that you acknowledge some disparaging things I've said; some from misunderstanding, bad wording, bad placement of user commands such as quote blocks (Like I keep saying, it was a bad idea to write that response when I was getting ready to go to work and I apologize for the confusion), or actual unintentional disparaging; but don't acknowledge when I fully acknowledge what you say. Or, I should say you acknowledge what I say, but don't act like it counterbalances your issues with what I've said.

Everything I say is meant to give everyone who deserves it, a fair shake. If your responses are respectful and well thought out rather than petty and inconsequential then I listen to them. I've already called out your good points plenty of times at this point.

As for the apology thing, basically I say the same thing I said in the second quote block in this post: I didn't feel insulted because you expertly countered a blanket statement I never intended to make. Though, to be fair, I should admit at this point that it could easily be interpreted as such from my messy writing and lack of time to make a clearer post. I felt insulted because the wording of that was very insulting. Again, see my response to the 2nd quote block.

giles:

Happyninja42:
Actually you assume wrong there pal. [snip] And considering how his finally letting go of that attachment, ended up letting him be the badass avatar, and it didn't amount to anything, annoyed me. So yeah, take your assumption somewhere else pal, you're wrong.

I'm not your "pal" and I don't think I want to be. Your pugnacious attitude is disgraceful.[snip]

Now I'll be off and so you can direct your contentious mood elsewhere.

giles, seeing as I started this thread and have had my own spats with Happyninja42 in this same thread, I think you'd be better off not responding to what you perceive as a pugnacious attitude with insults of your own. That doesn't help. A lot of his responses seem to come from a fundamental miscommunication in what people are trying to say when they respond to him, primarily me as I'm all over the place in my thoughts when I don't properly prepare my writing, understandable as this happens between people all the time in forums. He also doesn't seem to understand that his particular wording can come across as very rude (believing I felt insulted that he was dismissing his perception of my dismissal of legit criticism when, (EDIT)while I was insulted, it was not by that, but rather by the insulting tone (EDIT) of the particular statement I am referencing).

I'd like to think none of it is intentional just like if you were accidentally rude to a friend in real life, it's not a sign of your rudeness simply because it happened since it was, after all, an accident. Perhaps I am wrong. Perhaps his forum health meter is off the charts. Nonetheless, I believe in keeping the high ground and acting better than you perceive others to be acting, especially when they seem to be negative, to you. Even if nothing externally good comes out of it, in contexts like this, YOU are better off for it.

So, I'm defending Happyninja42 on this one hoping this is all just one big misunderstanding. I certainly sympathize with your frustration though.

So I guess the activity has died down in this thread. Considering how many people took it as an excuse to dismiss legitimate gripes by a Korra defender yet again, how much miscommunication was going on, and how little discussion happened regarding the state of the fandom, it's probably for the best.

Thanks to everybody who tried.

I'm kind of surprised that S3 got so much hate. It was my favorite season by far. It felt a lot more personal with it's small scale. I was worried that after S2's ridiculously "World hangs in the balance" ending that they would try to use even higher stakes.

People are still complaining about Korra having a short temper? She is miles better than she was in earlier episodes, and she's shown remarkable growth. I can recognize the problem in Season 2 as she made the exact same mistake that she made in Season 1 play for play. But in season 3 she has a way better handle on her emotions. Yes, she can still be short and excitable, but hell, that's just a part of her personality. I don't think she got angry at something this season that she wasn't reasonable to be angry about. She's grown far past her childishness at the beginning of Season 1. I've heard this said before, and I'm beginning to think there may be some truth in it. People just want her to develop into Aang.

I only just got around to watching Legend of Korra and so obviously I have no real knowledge of the community that surrounds the game, but do people really hate it?

It was a great show, Season 3 especially. Hell, it might even have been better than the original Last Airbender in my mind though I'm not totally sure on that yet. I can definitely say that I love Korra as a character however, so I'm surprised to see people actively disliking her. Yes she's headstrong, impulsive, and a bit brash but that's much of what makes her so much fun to watch. It would have been terribly boring to just have another Aang, as fun of a character as he was.

That ending for season 3 was absolutely heartwrenching as well. Reminds me of the end of The Last Airbender's season 2, which is a good thing because that built up to a brilliant third season for the original show. I look forward to seeing if Korra can continue to grow as a series and does indeed follow its predecessor in that respect, because if so it's going to be truly amazing to watch.

giles:

Happyninja42:
Actually you assume wrong there pal. I was fairly annoyed with the whole "hang on to Kitara" thing, and how quickly he just raced his way through all the shakras. And considering how his finally letting go of that attachment, ended up letting him be the badass avatar, and it didn't amount to anything, annoyed me. So yeah, take your assumption somewhere else pal, you're wrong.

I'm not your "pal" and I don't think I want to be. Your pugnacious attitude is disgraceful.

My point was that it is very common in fiction to end a mid section on a low point. This is fundamentally a kids show so I don't think they need to reach for the stars and go beyond standard 3 act structure more than they already do by necessity (superimposing the season/book structure).

Now I'll be off and so you can direct your contentious mood elsewhere.

That's fine, your assumption about how I feel about something was distasteful to me.

jamail77:

jamail77:
giles, seeing as I started this thread and have had my own spats with Happyninja42 in this same thread, I think you'd be better off not responding to what you perceive as a pugnacious attitude with insults of your own. That doesn't help. A lot of his responses seem to come from a fundamental miscommunication in what people are trying to say when they respond to him, primarily me as I'm all over the place in my thoughts when I don't properly prepare my writing, understandable as this happens between people all the time in forums. He also doesn't seem to understand that his particular wording can come across as very rude (believing I felt insulted that he was dismissing his perception of my dismissal of legit criticism when I was simply upset at the insulting tone of the wording of the particular statement I am referencing).

Considering that you said you were insulted by my previous statement, I don't think it's a case of me "believing" you were insulted. You said "this feels very insulting, and I don't appreciate it at all" If by saying this statement, you weren't trying to convey that you were insulted, please use different phrasing, because that's pretty much what you said.

jamail77:
I'd like to think none of it is intentional just like if you were accidentally rude to a friend in real life, it's not a sign of your rudeness simply because it happened since it was, after all, an accident. Perhaps I am wrong. Perhaps his forum health meter is off the charts. Nonetheless, I believe in keeping the high ground and acting better than you perceive others to be acting, especially when they seem to be negative, to you. Even if nothing externally good comes out of it, in contexts like this, YOU are better off for it.

Frankly no I wasn't trying to be insulting, I was being a mix of annoyed and sarcastic to a thread, that seemed to manifest my annoyance with your "camp" in the discussion. After several months, threads, and lengthy posts about why we dislike the show, to see someone say that there are no more legitimate complaints was fairly annoying. I admit I was fairly frank in my statements, and you didn't hear the inflection in my voice if we were talking about it, so I acknowledge that it probably came across insulting. But I'm also not apologizing for it. I stated my mind directly and clearly. If you don't like what I had to say, well, that's fine too. You're under no obligation to like me or how I say things.

jamail77:
For one thing, in an attempt to explain their continued dislike to themselves as they aren't quite sure why they still feel like this, these same people are relying increasingly on nitpicks (which was the only way I could criticize Book 3's ending and that's saying something as people tend to consider me one of the most critical, harsh people they know when it comes to stories) and things that can only really be justified as interpretations.

See the part in bold. This is from your original post. This is the line that made me comment about how nitpicks are the only way you could criticize it, but that doesn't mean we can't find other ways to describe the bad elements of the finale. Your statement implies that the only types of complaints someone could have about the finale would be nitpicks, because you, a person who is known for being highly critical, couldn't find anything but nitpicks. This annoyed me, thus I replied. Also the statement about how we aren't quite sure why we feel like this? What is that about? That statement screams a blanket statement about our opinions on the matter, or our ability to state those reasons. Which felt very condescending to me, thus I responded. If that was not your intention with the phrase well, like you said, you didn't really structure the statement very well.

[quote="jamail77" post="18.859272.21329055"]So, I'm defending Happyninja42 on this one hoping this is all just one big misunderstanding. I certainly sympathize with your frustration though.

I don't need you to defend me. I'm not saying that to be rude, but it's not your job, nor do I feel I need a defender. I say what I feel at the time I feel it. I don't couch my words or phrasing. You can disagree with it, or dislike the way I say it, but don't waste your energy defending me, someone you don't know at all on a forum about video games, to another person you equally don't know on a forum about video games.

Now, to prevent turning this thread into a quote fest between you and me about how we worded things, and interpreted each others comments, insults intended or not, I'm going to bow out at this point. I've explained why I said in the context of what you posted. If you still don't like it or feel insulted, that's fine. Like I said, you don't have to like me or how I say things, but I'm going to say what I feel when you direct a general statement like that to an entire group of people, and I feel that it's out of line, or faulty from the foundation.

Later.

Happyninja42:

Now, to prevent turning this thread into a quote fest between you and me

[snip]

Like I said, you don't have to like me or how I say things, but I'm going to say what I feel when you direct a general statement like that to an entire group of people, and I feel that it's out of line, or faulty from the foundation.

Later.

I know you said you wanted to end this to avoid the quotes of quotes of quotes that is just between us, but I can't help feeling the need to try to clarify one more time. It's not so much to end on a good note as it is my compulsiveness and to help future posters understand what I meant in these instances seeing as thread activity has restarted briefly and may resume. Seeing as you have bowed out I perfectly understand if, unlike me, you don't choose to respond again.

I already stated how my frustration is not personal dislike towards you. I don't even know you personally. I also personally stated many times how I am well aware of legitimate gripes, citing some of my own to develop a sense of mutuality. I'm not like the diehard Korra fans; they DETEST me because I see faults. I am most certainly not in their "camp". I may as well be banned from their circles. I stated this over and over in so many words, many of them edited for clarity after the fact admittedly.

Happyninja42:

jamail77:
snip (believing I felt insulted that he was dismissing his perception of my dismissal of legit criticism when I was simply upset at the insulting tone of the wording of the particular statement I am referencing).

Considering that you said you were insulted by my previous statement, I don't think it's a case of me "believing" you were insulted. You said "this feels very insulting, and I don't appreciate it at all" If by saying this statement, you weren't trying to convey that you were insulted, please use different phrasing, because that's pretty much what you said.

Once again, I have edited this for clarity. I really should thank you for making everything clearer for anyone who just comes into the thread. I did feel insulted. Replace "I was simply upset" with "I was insulted, but not by that, but rather by the insulting tone". I was insulted by your wording rather than how you tried to destroy one of my arguments.

Happyninja42:

Frankly no I wasn't trying to be insulting, I was being a mix of annoyed and sarcastic to a thread, that seemed to manifest my annoyance with your "camp" in the discussion. After several months, threads, and lengthy posts about why we dislike the show, to see someone say that there are no more legitimate complaints was fairly annoying. I admit I was fairly frank in my statements, and you didn't hear the inflection in my voice if we were talking about it, so I acknowledge that it probably came across insulting.

I felt a tinge of possible sarcasm in addition to the annoyance honestly though I was certainly unsure.

I shouldn't even bother addressing the rest considering how many times I've already stated how I was often seen as a Korra hater, heck I still am sometimes, how many times I said that, of course, there are rational, legitimate gripes and this thread wasn't focusing on that, and how many times I complimented your logic and rational problems with Korra. Like I said, rather, it's focusing on all the people who disliked the show for so long with rationality that when something that THEY would ordinarily consider decent happened they had to perform mental gymnastics to continue THEIR PERSONAL dislike.

How do I know this? I know someone who admitted he was doing this: He told me he hated it for so long he didn't know how to respond to something he saw as positive and when I showed him some of the irrational, AGAIN NOT THE RATIONAL ONES, complaints he said they sounded like him. It isn't solely speculation nor was I strawmanning all of the people who voiced their dislikes like I said earlier and earlier before that and earlier before that.

None of that seems to matter because whenever threads like this happen people always seem to assume that's what you're doing. There's no nuance to these discussions. It's all two groups and that's that. Maybe that was my mistake, thinking people could accept I would want to discuss the state of the fandom's discussions rather than pure like or dislike. Few here seem to get that or perhaps it's just not a feasible idea to them or perhaps like you they're burned out on all the bad experiences they've had in these discussions. I don't know on that one honestly.

Happyninja42:

jamail77:
For one thing, in an attempt to explain their continued dislike to themselves as they aren't quite sure why they still feel like this, these same people are relying increasingly on nitpicks (which was the only way I could criticize Book 3's ending and that's saying something as people tend to consider me one of the most critical, harsh people they know when it comes to stories) and things that can only really be justified as interpretations.

See the part in bold. This is from your original post. This is the line that made me comment about how nitpicks are the only way you could criticize it, but that doesn't mean we can't find other ways to describe the bad elements of the finale. Your statement implies that the only types of complaints someone could have about the finale would be nitpicks, because you, a person who is known for being highly critical, couldn't find anything but nitpicks. This annoyed me, thus I replied. Also the statement about how we aren't quite sure why we feel like this? What is that about? That statement screams a blanket statement about our opinions on the matter, or our ability to state those reasons. Which felt very condescending to me, thus I responded. If that was not your intention with the phrase well, like you said, you didn't really structure the statement very well.

See how I responded to the previous quote block. Perhaps, I would have been better off if I just included things like "There are exceptions", "Here are some rational arguments", "For the few like this" everywhere every chance I get, more than I already did. It's become clear after this thread that not including the rushed posts, I really just need to clarify everywhere in my posts. Saying "People have been relying increasingly on nitpicks is not enough information; to me, it seemed that made it clear critics were relying more on that to justify their arguments, but not solely nor overall, but clearly you interpreted that as a big implication about all critics. My mistake.

Happyninja42:

jamail77:
So, I'm defending Happyninja42 on this one hoping this is all just one big misunderstanding. I certainly sympathize with your frustration though.

I don't need you to defend me. I'm not saying that to be rude, but it's not your job, nor do I feel I need a defender. I say what I feel at the time I feel it. I don't couch my words or phrasing. You can disagree with it, or dislike the way I say it, but don't waste your energy defending me, someone you don't know at all on a forum about video games, to another person you equally don't know on a forum about video games.

I didn't defend you because I thought you needed a defender nor do I consider it a waste of energy because it is something I wanted to do. Like I said, I try to foster understanding. If I help giles avoid attacking other people who voice their opinion in the thread later the thread will end up being a more positive experience for everyone. Forums are places for discussions. And, besides, to be frank, I also try to be respectful. I don't care that everyone is a total stranger: It's the right thing to do especially since I have been on the receiving end of unfair attacks and gone back a few times.

The Almighty Aardvark:
I'm kind of surprised that S3 got so much hate. It was my favorite season by far. It felt a lot more personal with it's small scale. I was worried that after S2's ridiculously "World hangs in the balance" ending that they would try to use even higher stakes.

It was my favorite season as well for the same reasons though I felt that Amon was the more complex villain until the writers dropped the ball on that though the overfocus on a bad romance sideplot, the unnecessary length of the pro-bending arc, and the lack of depth dedicated to the legitimacy of the bending/non-bending conflict were far worse ball drops. Book 3 was overall better, in my opinion, because we finally got the main character action we deserved and the villains never lost as much glory as Amon even if they didn't have the impact. It helps how they all basically had special superpowers.

The Almighty Aardvark:

People are still complaining about Korra having a short temper?

[snip]

Yes, she can still be short and excitable, but hell, that's just a part of her personality. I don't think she got angry at something this season that she wasn't reasonable to be angry about. She's grown far past her childishness at the beginning of Season 1. I've heard this said before, and I'm beginning to think there may be some truth in it. People just want her to develop into Aang.

Like I said to someone else, if you didn't at least sort of like Korra as a concept even if you didn't like her in Book 1/2 practice, you weren't going to like her in Book 3. At her core she is still Korra despite the growth. I know personally I would have much rather Book 1 Korra start as something closer to how Book 3 Korra started and then move on from there. It's difficult to create an unlikable likable character and they most definitely dropped the ball on that as well. Her growth doesn't feel organic enough to me. I'm fine with how she is now: I just wish her development had been eased in better and she had been less stupid than she was in Book 1/2. It really felt unbelievable sometimes and forget all the overbearing cliches.

The Madman:
I only just got around to watching Legend of Korra and so obviously I have no real knowledge of the community that surrounds the game, but do people really hate it?

Hate is a strong word for those who remain unimpressed as a whole. I do not think it's fair to put them all in a group like that. As has been discussed in previous posts there are fair complaints about Book 3 whether it's soley personal opinion or something more objective, like obvious plot points and visual cues that many stories have in common, as close to objectivity as stories can get. You're welcome to read through previous posts and see what I mean though I warn you some of them get kind of long, angry, and/or mockingly sarcastic.

The Madman:

That ending for season 3 was absolutely heartwrenching as well. Reminds me of the end of The Last Airbender's season 2, which is a good thing because that built up to a brilliant third season for the original show. I look forward to seeing if Korra can continue to grow as a series and does indeed follow its predecessor in that respect, because if so it's going to be truly amazing to watch.

Funny you say that seeing as how the writers promised Book 3 would be something closer to ATLA than the previous books for this series.

 

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