US Government Shutdown

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Meiam:
Independent don't really follow the news and will blame both side equally.

Independents are currently blaming Trump more by a substantial margin (~15%).

It's worse than that, because Democratic voters almost entirely blame Trump (~90%) whereas a very substantial chunk of Republican voters (20-25%) blame Trump. On the whole, Trump is down ~55-30 in the public view.

Sucks to say but they'll probably cave in at some point cause the longer this goes on the more it hurt them.

Maybe. But Trump is currently losing the popular battle and his approval ratings are dropping. The rest of the Republicans will be eyeing with some concern, because there's a risk some of that unpopularity bites them. Potentially that means they'll be the first to fold, and that will put extreme pressure on Trump.

Hades:
The thing is that Trumps voters really REALLY care about the wall and are likely to sacrifice quite a bit to see it made. Its also rather helpful that they don't have to make the sacrifices themselves. Many might not see themselves as being very effected by government workers not getting paid and since the Trump campaign ran on a very hateful platform towards the government they aren't likely to be troubled by those workers not getting paid either.

Following on from this, but how many of the wider Republican voter base are actually that kind of die hard Trump supporter? Because I'd reckon there's a lot of people who voted for him purely because he was the Republican candidate rather than because they wanted the wall. And if those people keep getting the negative consequences of the shutdown, how likely are they to keep wanting to vote Republican? Or at the very least keep wanting the Republicans who got them into this mess in the first place. I think many Republicans might be looking at their seats and wondering how long they might keep them

tstorm823:

Dalisclock:

The DACA protections for $25 Billion deal a year ago was torpedoed by Trump despite saying he was for it.

I don't feel this is a fair characterization. The democrats aren't voting DACA protections through, despite overwhelming popular approval of DACA and a fair amount of Republican representatives who are for it on the record. Democrats have voted unanimously against bills that would make that trade, Donald Trump hasn't vetoed any. Frankly, Donald Trump hasn't vetoed a single bill, and we have little reason to believe that Trump would veto that deal if they put it on his desk. As best as I can tell, the deal that he supposedly torpedoed was a pinky promise from Chuck Schumer to fund the wall in return for Trump continuing to defer action against Dreamers perpetually by unilateral executive action.

If they want that trade, write it up and put it on Trump's desk. I'm fairly certain they're content to keep DACA and the wall active controversies long enough to run on in 2020. It's much harder to run against the status quo if you actually make progress.

There was a proposal after that talk between Chuck and Trump. It was over the phone and it would have provided a large amount of money for the wall in exchange for DACA protections. I don't recall the amount of money, although I do remember that it was more than the 5 billion or so Trump wanted at the time. Trump seemed to be okay with it, but Steven Miller and John Kelley demanded more and shut it down. If I recall, Kelley wanted much more than just the wall and wanted to massively expand ICE's operations across the country as well as heavily expanding on the use of drones. They were also demanding even more money for the wall on top of that.

The problem with putting DACA protections on Trump's desk isn't necessarily Trump. It's the people around him as well as the Republicans in the Senate. McConnell is a shameless snake and although Kelley is gone, Miller is still there and he's even more of a hardliner than Kelley is.

Also you're giving the Republicans far too much credit and taking them at their word as if it means anything. It doesn't matter if they're on the record for it, they can flip at any time and will do so without repercussions. Popular approval also means fuck all. Medicare for all has pretty popular approval even among Republicans, but you don't see them lining up saying they'd vote for it. Hell, they're actively denouncing the idea of anything other than privatized healthcare.

Agema:

Meiam:
Independent don't really follow the news and will blame both side equally.

Independents are currently blaming Trump more by a substantial margin (~15%).

It's worse than that, because Democratic voters almost entirely blame Trump (~90%) whereas a very substantial chunk of Republican voters (20-25%) blame Trump. On the whole, Trump is down ~55-30 in the public view.

Sucks to say but they'll probably cave in at some point cause the longer this goes on the more it hurt them.

Maybe. But Trump is currently losing the popular battle and his approval ratings are dropping. The rest of the Republicans will be eyeing with some concern, because there's a risk some of that unpopularity bites them. Potentially that means they'll be the first to fold, and that will put extreme pressure on Trump.

I think they've also noticed that, unlike Trump, they're aware of the fact they lost the house and took a beating in the midterms. In 2 years, unless the democrats screw the pooch or Trump magically gets more popular, they're set to lose the Senate as well(if not the Presidency) and then they'll be the ones locked out of power for at least 2 years.

And if Trump and the GOP are taking heat for the shutdown, it's no doubt because Trump and people like Lindsey Graham keep not only claiming credit for it, but also how much of a good thing is it if it gets them the wall.

Mitch McConnell acting like none of this is his problem isn't helping their case here, since he is one of the few people who could end the shutdown right now if he let the funding bills the house passed be voted on in the Senate(instead of blocking everything to protect Trumps ass).

Palindromemordnilap:

Following on from this, but how many of the wider Republican voter base are actually that kind of die hard Trump supporter?

We know that Republican voters have generally fallen into line with Trump, that's why Republican legislators are so cowed. Numerous die-hard Republican groups (such as evangelicals) have wholeheartedly thrown their lot in with Trump. So that suggests somewhere over half. I think things like the wall actually tell us a lot about Trump's core support. Trump is supported ~65-25 by Republicans over the shutdown, and I would suspect that 65% is probably around the ballpark for his core support.

He's probably weakest with with metropolitan liberal conservatives, business elite, maybe some fiscal conservatives - the sort of people who get called RINOs.

No one's going to mention that Donald Trump had staff stack fast food onto silver platters due to the shutdown?

Well there you go. I did. Sum up the United States of America in one image.

Seanchaidh:
No one's going to mention that Donald Trump had staff stack fast food onto silver platters due to the shutdown?

It's kind of funny. We know Trump loves fast food, and that sportspeople tend to avoid it because they are usually very careful about diet. Which suggests to me that ever-self-absorbed Trump whipped up a banquet with Trump in mind, rather than his guests.

Seanchaidh:
No one's going to mention that Donald Trump had staff stack fast food onto silver platters due to the shutdown?

Well there you go. I did. Sum up the United States of America in one image.

You say due to the shutdown, but I imagine he much prefers this to what would usually be prepared and has been trying to get this to happen for awhile. If anything, he views this as a great excuse to finally have a banquet of Wendy's served on silver platters and accented with candelabras. "Finally, a meal with some real class", he says as he eats a bun-less, Wendy's hamburger with a fork and knife as if it were a steak. Ya know, because he's a fucking alien.

Although, I do have this mental image of them serving frosties in wine glasses as Trump looks around the table looking very smug and asking "I assume everyone is enjoying their top notch meal?" and it's amazing. This particular moment is basically "what if Joe Dirt became president?" and I can only laugh at the sheer absurdity of it.

Agema:
It's kind of funny. We know Trump loves fast food, and that sportspeople tend to avoid it because they are usually very careful about diet. Which suggests to me that ever-self-absorbed Trump whipped up a banquet with Trump in mind, rather than his guests.

My take was that since Trump is obsessed with fast food, he believes everyone must be. But yours is honestly even more Trump.

Seanchaidh:
No one's going to mention that Donald Trump had staff stack fast food onto silver platters due to the shutdown?

Well there you go. I did. Sum up the United States of America in one image.

Oh look, another thing that would be more appropriate in an incredibly lazy satire than a part of our reality with actual power over millions of human lives. Cardiac arrest cannot come soon enough.

So I've been thinking. Trump wants 5.7 billion or something for his wall. This government shutdown probably comes at a cost to the US economy. If it does, which will be greater?

Seanchaidh:
No one's going to mention that Donald Trump had staff stack fast food onto silver platters due to the shutdown?

Well there you go. I did. Sum up the United States of America in one image.

From all the things that the shutdown has caused, Trump serving a Steamed Hams banquet at the White House has to be the most hilarious (and probably the only funny one).

Seanchaidh:
No one's going to mention that Donald Trump had staff stack fast food onto silver platters due to the shutdown?

Well there you go. I did. Sum up the United States of America in one image.

........why do I feel like I need a strong brandy after seeing that? I mean fucking hell, that would be like the Australian PM entertaining Pat Rafter with a six pack of frozen Four n' Twenty meat pies.

Gordon_4:

Seanchaidh:
No one's going to mention that Donald Trump had staff stack fast food onto silver platters due to the shutdown?

Well there you go. I did. Sum up the United States of America in one image.

........why do I feel like I need a strong brandy after seeing that? I mean fucking hell, that would be like the Australian PM entertaining Pat Rafter with a six pack of frozen Four n' Twenty meat pies.

Well, we are talking about someone who is an emotional 5 year old at best(and as an American, it's painful to say that he's running the country and somehow still continues to do so). I can only imagine this is how he thinks classy adults eat fancy meals.

I have yet to confirm this but apparently Trump was eating some steak with guests the next day. Suggesting that the whole fast food thing was not caused by the shutdown but was a deliberate choice by Trump

But I've heard (but not comfirmed) that Trump physically rips up the notes he receives (ie shreds them.) Which is awesome because these papers still have to be file so some lucky sucker has to tape it back together

trunkage:
I have yet to confirm this but apparently Trump was eating some steak with guests the next day. Suggesting that the whole fast food thing was not caused by the shutdown but was a deliberate choice by Trump

Some people are annoyed that people keep laughing at Trump's antics instead of talking about the terrible things he's doing, so might have been deliberate, yeah.

trunkage:
I have yet to confirm this but apparently Trump was eating some steak with guests the next day. Suggesting that the whole fast food thing was not caused by the shutdown but was a deliberate choice by Trump

But I've heard (but not comfirmed) that Trump physically rips up the notes he receives (ie shreds them.) Which is awesome because these papers still have to be file so some lucky sucker has to tape it back together

Yes him destroying documents is actually illegal and there still remains the possibility that he is charged with doing so at some point if all documents are not preserved.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/10/trump-papers-filing-system-635164

https://www.pri.org/stories/2019-01-14/no-president-cant-destroy-records-heres-why

He has a long history of doing this however:

https://www.newsweek.com/2016/11/11/donald-trump-companies-destroyed-emails-documents-515120.html

EDIT: and yes, Trump thought he was being funny with his Junk food fest for the teams when in reality, the teams here do not even eat that crap at home and many coaches and trainers tell them not to. Hell when they take the teams out here, they at least take them somewhere that has better food than that. But then again, that only goes to show Trump's ignorance again. Student Athletes frequently have diets that are designed to enhance their performance, not slow them down and clog their arteries.

Lil devils x:

EDIT: and yes, Trump thought he was being funny with his Junk food fest for the teams when in reality, the teams here do not even eat that crap at home and many coaches and trainers tell them not to. Hell when they take the teams out here, they at least take them somewhere that has better food than that. But then again, that only goes to show Trump's ignorance again. Student Athletes frequently have diets that are designed to enhance their performance, not slow them down and clog their arteries.

Counterpoint: it was funny, and the athletes had fun.

I use that second link on purpose, cause I know it's been just as stupidly politicized the other direction, but these are college football players. They probably eat 4000 calories a day to keep up with their training, they can (and I'm sure often do) handle a few Big Macs, and a massive fast food buffet in a fine dining setting is awesome and hilarious.

Chimpzy:
So I've been thinking. Trump wants 5.7 billion or something for his wall. This government shutdown probably comes at a cost to the US economy. If it does, which will be greater?

Oh the damage done is already way above 5.7 billions. 5.7 billions is a tiny sum compared to how much the government spend, even on a daily basis. This is really an ideological battle more than anything.

tstorm823:

Lil devils x:

EDIT: and yes, Trump thought he was being funny with his Junk food fest for the teams when in reality, the teams here do not even eat that crap at home and many coaches and trainers tell them not to. Hell when they take the teams out here, they at least take them somewhere that has better food than that. But then again, that only goes to show Trump's ignorance again. Student Athletes frequently have diets that are designed to enhance their performance, not slow them down and clog their arteries.

Counterpoint: it was funny, and the athletes had fun.

I use that second link on purpose, cause I know it's been just as stupidly politicized the other direction, but these are college football players. They probably eat 4000 calories a day to keep up with their training, they can (and I'm sure often do) handle a few Big Macs, and a massive fast food buffet in a fine dining setting is awesome and hilarious.

I think you may be "behind the times" sure, years ago they piled on the junk food, but these days they usually have team nutritionist that design their diets for maxiumum performance. Junk food is usually pretty restricted. Even High school athletes these days have diet plans. The more serious the athletic program, the stricter their diet plans are. In the past, it was only "Olympians" who trained and ate like this, but these days even our High School athletes train this way in hopes they will get scholarships, our college athletes train this way in hopes they get contracts. This is just how it works now if students are serious about their athletics.

There is a reason why many students today are not eating this crap anymore. They actually understand how bad it is for you and don't want to do that to themselves. This is why Mcdonalds has been in a decline in the US.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/mcdonalds-faces-millennial-challenge-1408928743

I personally never eat fast food, and do not really see that as being food and encourage parents to never feed it to their children. I encourage them to utilize healthy alternatives.

Meal plans look more like this than MCcrap:
http://loanh.org/for-student-athletes/weekly-meal-plans/

I see it as " tacky" but then again that is fitting for trump since everything he likes and does is tacky. His personal tastes reminds me of a male version of Tammy Faye Bakker: Tacky and gross.

Some of the players thought it was a joke and were waiting for the real food to come out...

"I thought it was a joke," one Clemson player could be overheard saying in a video shared on Twitter, accurately capturing many people's reaction to the president's earlier promise to serve college football's national champions items found on various dollar menus.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-spt-trump-fast-food-white-house-tv-comics-20190115-story.html

Seanchaidh:
No one's going to mention that Donald Trump had staff stack fast food onto silver platters due to the shutdown?

Well there you go. I did. Sum up the United States of America in one image.

Trump: AH Alabama Clemson Tigers welcome, I hope you're all prepared for an unforgettable luncheon!

image

Seanchaidh:
No one's going to mention that Donald Trump had staff stack fast food onto silver platters due to the shutdown?

Well there you go. I did. Sum up the United States of America in one image.

Yea, this had nothing to do with the shutdown, trump just has terribly bad taste.

tstorm823:

Counterpoint: it was funny, and the athletes had fun.

I use that second link on purpose, cause I know it's been just as stupidly politicized the other direction, but these are college football players. They probably eat 4000 calories a day to keep up with their training, they can (and I'm sure often do) handle a few Big Macs, and a massive fast food buffet in a fine dining setting is awesome and hilarious.

Did the athletes say they had fun the same way Trump never said Mexico would directly pay for the wall?

ALSO: Isn't it great that Trump can make jokes about the shutdown while families are still going without being paid? losing their homes and not able to take care of their children as he summons them back to work without pay?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/15/us/politics/trump-democrats-shutdown.html
Trump Summons Thousands Back to Work Without Pay as Shutdown Drags On
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/15/us/politics/trump-democrats-shutdown.html

Even worse,they are warning those affected by the shutdown not to discuss 'politics". They are actually trying to restrict them from speaking out about their suffering.
https://splinternews.com/faa-warns-employees-working-without-pay-against-politic-1831822856

So now not only are they not allowed to discuss Trump being impeached:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/29/us/politics/federal-employees-hatch-act-trump-impeachment.html
they are not supposed to speak up about what they are enduring due to Trump's ignorance.

So now food isn't being inspected:
https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news/fda-stops-routine-inspections-of-food-amid-shutdown-011019.html
people cannot afford food, medicine, diapers and other necessities:
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/federal-employees-diapers-government-shutdown_us_5c3f6714e4b0a8dbe16ce0dc
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/news/2019/jan/US-federal-worker-unable-to-pay-for-insulin-due-to-partial-government-shutdown-93027575.html
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/government-shutdown-tsa-workers-protest-shutdown-turn-to-food-banks-for-help-amid-uncertainty/
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jan/10/government-shutdown-affordable-housing-hud-trump
Neither can school districts:
https://myfox8.com/2019/01/16/nc-school-district-drops-lunches-to-minimum-level-to-conserve-food-amid-government-shutdown/

tstorm823:

Counterpoint: it was funny, and the athletes had fun.

I use that second link on purpose, cause I know it's been just as stupidly politicized the other direction, but these are college football players. They probably eat 4000 calories a day to keep up with their training, they can (and I'm sure often do) handle a few Big Macs, and a massive fast food buffet in a fine dining setting is awesome and hilarious.

Even if not, I'm also sure that sportspeople allow themselves celebratory blowouts once in a while, especially after winning major trophies. It's not like an evening on fast food or a night on the tiles completely undoes three months of scientifically controlled diet. And the story is definitely completely trivial.

On the other hand, if I were invited to the White House for a celebratory dinner, I think I'd feel happier and more honoured by an unhealthy slap-up meal of top notch steak or barbecue ribs rather than $3 burgers I could buy in any one of 40,000 outlets nationwide.

Putin's gambit has paid off even more than he could have foreseen.

Agema:

Even if not, I'm also sure that sportspeople allow themselves celebratory blowouts once in a while, especially after winning major trophies. It's not like an evening on fast food or a night on the tiles completely undoes three months of scientifically controlled diet. And the story is definitely completely trivial.

On the other hand, if I were invited to the White House for a celebratory dinner, I think I'd feel happier and more honoured by an unhealthy slap-up meal of top notch steak or barbecue ribs rather than $3 burgers I could buy in any one of 40,000 outlets nationwide.

I'm not saying I'm against better food, but I've never been disappointed by a buffet with mozzarella sticks in it. This is my formal request when they invite me to the White House: buffet mozzarella sticks.

Lil devils x:

So now food isn't being inspected:
https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news/fda-stops-routine-inspections-of-food-amid-shutdown-011019.html

I hope the American Escapist members here know how to inspect their own food by themselves, or have a decent plan to handle a good old Salmonella infection.

https://politics.theonion.com/chuck-schumer-honestly-pretty-amazed-he-hasn-t-caved-ye-1831768383

Kwak:
Putin's gambit has paid off even more than he could have foreseen.

Yes, Putin is quite interested in the American machinery of empire continuing without even the hint of a pause while its domestic programs that serve the mass of people and are largely irrelevant to Russian geopolitical interests are put on hold.

Seanchaidh:
https://politics.theonion.com/chuck-schumer-honestly-pretty-amazed-he-hasn-t-caved-ye-1831768383

Kwak:
Putin's gambit has paid off even more than he could have foreseen.

Yes, Putin is quite interested in the American machinery of empire continuing without even the hint of a pause while its domestic programs that serve the mass of people and are largely irrelevant to Russian geopolitical interests are put on hold.

Implying Putin has no interest in the internal destabilisation, division and failing morale of the population masses of the US, or that Trump's airheadedness has not eroded America's reputation among its traditional allies the world over, is a pretty unbelievable thing for an adult with basic exposure to available information to think.
And I'm sure stuff like this is music to his ears.

There are few things that President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia desires more than the weakening of NATO, the military alliance among the United States, Europe and Canada that has deterred Soviet and Russian aggression for 70 years.

Last year, President Trump suggested a move tantamount to destroying NATO: the withdrawal of the United States.

Senior administration officials told The New York Times that several times over the course of 2018, Mr. Trump privately said he wanted to withdraw from the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.

The shutdown ended, at least for now. Trump caved and agreed to open it for three weeks. However if in that time they don't make some form of deal on the wall, he's once again hinted at declaring a national emergency to get it done.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/congress/trump-expected-to-call-for-temporary-deal-to-end-the-shutdown

Trump is a little bitch.

Surprised, and heartened, to see the Democrats finally grew something resembling a spine.

Something fishy about this. i don't trust for one second trump or the republicans negotiated in good faith. they're up to something

Silentpony:
Something fishy about this. i don't trust for one second trump or the republicans negotiated in good faith. they're up to something

IKR I honestly hope the government employees affected by this are looking for better jobs at this point and sadly that means as long as we have Trump in the white house, we should expect to have less qualified people running the government because the more competent employees will be working elsewhere and we likely will be left with people who cannot get hired anywhere else. Expect long lines.. very very long lines thanks to Trump.

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