New Gillette commercial "not an indictment on manhood"

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https://www.cbsnews.com/news/new-gillette-commercial-backlash-misunderstood-not-indictment-on-masculinity/

Gillette's latest commercial questioning "toxic masculinity" in the Me Too era is facing backlash from some viewers. With almost 20 million views on YouTube, the ad garnered 535,000 likes and 990,000 dislikes. But according to one expert on the intersection of masculinity and violence against women, the ad is being misconstrued.
"I think what's misunderstood by the backlash is that this is not an indictment on manhood. It's actually an invitation to men to be different, to be better, and don't all of us want to be better?" Ted Bunch, co-founder of the advocacy group, A Call to Men, said Friday on "CBS This Morning." His organization aims to educate men on "healthy, respectful manhood."
The commercial, titled "The Best Men Can Be," depicts bullying, sexual harassment and workplace gender dynamics, with a call for men to hold other men accountable. It prompts viewers to consider: "It's only challenging ourselves to do more that we can get closer to our best."

I view the backlash against the ad as just another example of people trying to maintain the status quo and enable toxic behaviors to continue rather than wanting to address them and see them for what they are. I see it as what exactly has to happen to address this and get people talking, which Gillette did here. We need MORE people willing to speak up like Gillette did here and " The Rock" has done previously as well.

https://www.askmen.com/news/sports/the-rock-talks-mental-health-and-toxic-masculinity.html

People of course, have to be willing to listen to what is actually being said however, instead of just screaming "they are attacking men" and not actually understanding what is being said. Encouraging men to speak up when the bad behaviors happen is not in any way claiming all men behave in a toxic way, instead it is showing that the men speaking up and putting a stop to the bad behaviors are "the way men should be". Shouldn't that be seen as a good message rather than bad?

I haven't seen the advert, though I have heard about the backlash and lots of neckbeards (ironically) screaming that they're never going to buy Gillette's (insanely expensive) razors ever again.

People should ditch cartridge razors. I got a safety razor a few months ago, and while I wouldn't say it's changed my life, it's a much better shave for a fraction of the cost (I got 120 blades for seven quid, and a blade is good for four or five shaves).

The fragility of conservative masculinity knows no bounds. Oh the ironys. Whenever I consider my issues with esteem of self as pretty bad - and they are - it still is somewhat mildly relieving to see all these other males lose their shit over this stuff and think "well, shit..it could be worse. At least I'm not in denial and doing that." Which admittedly is no useful or a healthy way to process and improve oneself.

Ok, yeah, masculinity so precious, so fragile. A company that sells identical (but pink) razors to women and charges more, that is big on promoting the beauty standard, half-heartedly get on board the #metoo moment for publicity and it's the fempocalypse and the usual suspects are outraged, like they always are.

While the ad CAN come of as a *little* preachy, and Gillete isn't innocent when it comes to stuff like selling the same product to women at a marked up price...

The ad did spark a critically important conversation, and that's a good thing.

I honestly can't understand why anyone would be so easily triggered by the message. "Being an asshole is not ok, and we as men should be better than that. If you see someone being an asshole, call them out" is a no-brainer, IMO.

The guys getting upset at the video seem to either be unbelievably fragile snowflakes ("ermagerd, you are literally making all men look like monsters how dare you I'm going to ignore the guys who stand up to to the assholes in the ad while making this point") or they're being dishonest (Ben Shapiro going "The ad is wrong, the problem isn't too many men, it's not enough men, there are too many single mothers raising kids that's why there are asshole men, I'm going to ignore the fact that that's not what the ad was saying and I'm not going to point out that most of those single mothers are single mothers because they have deadbeat ex-husbands").

Well, either that, or they don't see the routine bullying and harassment as a problem, probably because they themselves are responsible for doing it, or because they've never seen it and thus assume it's not a problem.

As someone who WAS one of those kids getting bullied while the school authorities said "You know how boys are, they have their little locker room rituals", I can tell you, toxic masculinity IS a problem and this specific breed of masculinity needs to be trained out of our young men in their former years, because it's shit and it sucks.

The biggest shock to me is that apparently there are women who are upset at the ad and saying "But I LIKE my men 'strong'!" or "But I don't WANT my son to grow up weak!" as if "not being an asshole" somehow makes you weak, and it makes my head spin and breaks the heart of one of my lady friends. 0_o

I personally buy the cheapo Bic razors. Maybe I should switch just to piss off the red pillers.

Getting really fed up with how sensitive the "toughen up" crowd are. If media implies that black people are criminals or women are hysterical then people who react are snowflakes. If media says "some men are good and some men are bad, try to be good" then men are being attacked. It's not just that these people are sexist, racist or whatever. To me the most vile thing about them is that they're out and out cowards who will use the things they complain about as attacks on free speech to silence people they disagree with. The difference between this and "SJW" boycotts is that at least the "SJW"s value boycotts and view them as a good and valid thing. These people spend half their time complaining about how boycotts are some kind of vile attack and the other half boycotting things that hurt their feelings. If they want to boycott things, fine whatever, you should boycott companies who do things you disagree with, it's the only power you have against them. Hell if they're offended by it that's fine too it's the fact that they'll never admit that they're offended by it and try to say that their taking issue with a thing someone said is somehow different than someone else's taking issue with a thing someone said.

It is an ad.

Trying to convince people that the company is somehow on the side of the good guys and thus deserving your money. Without actually having something to do for it.

The politics aside, its just a bad ad. Like if you didn't know its from Gillette, you'd never guess its a shaving razor ad.

Satinavian:
It is an ad.

Trying to convince people that the company is somehow on the side of the good guys and thus deserving your money. Without actually having something to do for it.

Silentpony:
The politics aside, its just a bad ad. Like if you didn't know its from Gillette, you'd never guess its a shaving razor ad.

Both valid points. Getting offended because a company chose to pretend to take a moral stand to shift their overpriced garbage to the point where they actually forgot to advertise razors is pretty dumb too. This is just like Nike owning sweatshops and saying their against racism or Beyonce saying she cares about the environment while flying in a private jet(and putting her name to a clothing label that also exploits the young and the brown).

These huge companies that people give a massive pat on the back for paying lip service to an issue are often the worst offenders themselves.

So in short: "New Gilette Ad Offends Stupid People And Garners Support From Other Stupid People" is how this story should be remembered.

It's funny how the people who complain about the Gilette ad have an overlap with people who also complain about "snowflakes."

Anyway, I really don't care. I've seen the ad, you'd have to squint to see it as some kind of universal inditement on the male sex rather than "be the best man you can be" (I'd rather just be the best person I can be, but meh).

On the other hand, I use an electric Braun razor anyway, so, something something boycott.

This is one that I see both sides on.

On the one hand, if you had an "intended" commercial that would uplift black people and it showcased a bunch of drug dealers, a bunch of criminals and a bunch of absentee fathers and then the "good man" came in and told them all to cut it out like Bill Cosby or MLK in that Boondocks episode, showcasing in vivid detail him pulling his pants all the way up to his waist and being shown in a wedding ceremony and having a job as the example of "what black people can be", I am 100% positive you'd have calls of racism by the very same people who are applauding it right now.

On the other hand, if someone intends something as an uplifting video and fumbles, it's still an uplifting video, a bad one, but an uplifting video nonetheless. Hence, I can't actually get mad at it, as I don't have any expectations of competence at all from these corporations outside of the expectation of worthlessness so I was already expecting nothing more than something like this. Not something that's worth wasting your time on.

Gillette ad goes like this:
- famous person does his normal routine
- takes a shower
- feels the stubble on his chin
- ""technical data"" and graphics
- the guy shaves with Gillette
- end graphic

Deviate from that and you're doing it wrong. Perhaps they pander to the wrong crowd so somebody at Gillette can pat themselves on the back. I don't buy into this. My way would be to show things done the right way with positive results. Then again they tried to do well with the little running time they had (the result is honestly quite messy). Babysitting adults is a crock of shit - I doubt the message is going to sink in.

Satinavian:
It is an ad.

Trying to convince people that the company is somehow on the side of the good guys and thus deserving your money. Without actually having something to do for it.

By doing something they know would piss people off, it actually IS doing something. Considering how pissed off tons of people who hate the idea of being a better person, I say it worked a little atleast.

Yes, its an ad trying to sell a product, but Id rather ads try to sell products by endorsing good things than bad. It is certainly a better step forward than saying that men should be worse rather than better.

Honestly, this advert is the gift that keeps on giving.

I realise I'm playing the "u mad bro" card a bit here, but there comes a point when the reaction to something is so hysterical and so disproportionate to what is actually being said that you know it's hit a nerve.

Dreiko:
On the one hand, if you had an "intended" commercial that would uplift black people

Gillette literally owns subsidiary companies which sell skin-lightening creams in south Asia and makes money from promoting the idea that dark skinned people are ugly and would be more attractive and happier if they lightened their skin by putting fucking bleach on it.

I'm not here because I love Gillette or any corporation, they're here to make money and have no real loyalty to any ethical position. I'm here because the ethical position they're pretending to have is still a good one. If mistreating women is your "identity", then your identity sucks. Hysterically defending abusive behaviour because you've attached your identity to it is weird. It's weird, and if even clueless marketing executives are picking up on how weird and soft-skinned you are, you need a thicker skin and a less weird hobby.

I'm not going to buy razors from any company that doesn't make its stance on the expulsion of Cham Albanians clear.

evilthecat:

Gillette literally owns subsidiary companies which sell skin-lightening creams in south Asia and makes money from promoting the idea that dark skinned people are ugly and would be more attractive and happier if they lightened their skin by putting fucking bleach on it.

I'm not here because I love Gillette or any corporation, they're here to make money and have no real loyalty to any ethical position. I'm here because the ethical position they're pretending to have is still a good one. If mistreating women is your "identity", then your identity sucks. Hysterically defending abusive behaviour because you've attached your identity to it is weird. It's weird, and if even clueless marketing executives are picking up on how weird and soft-skinned you are, you need a thicker skin and a less weird hobby.

I'm mildly confused and I will interpret the second paragraph as being a general reply and not aimed at me lol.

But yeah I didn't even know about the skin whitening cream. It just goes to show the grass is always greener on the other side. Tan people want to be whiter and pale people want to go to tanning booths to be darker. I think people just like whatever it is that feels "exotic" from the perspective of their society.

Well, after watching the first 20 mins of the new season of Punisher, I wonder why it hasn't got the same response. Clearly, Frank Castle would have been pro-Gillette.

The rest of the season is a whole bunch of toxic masculinity that takes a heavy toll on all the good guys. So that fits as a cautionary tale

Dreiko:
But yeah I didn't even know about the skin whitening cream. It just goes to show the grass is always greener on the other side. Tan people want to be whiter and pale people want to go to tanning booths to be darker. I think people just like whatever it is that feels "exotic" from the perspective of their society.

It's because South Asia has a lot of racism (or colorism, more accurately).

For most of medieval and modern history, much of India (especially Northern India) was dominated by comparatively light-skinned foreign invaders (first Turkic peoples, then Europeans). During European rule, there was also a proliferation of scientific-racist ideas which equated light skin colour with civilization, intelligence and beauty. These ideas still exist to this day in India, there's been no real effort to counter or oppose them (although technically products are not supposed to suggest that dark-skinned people are inferior, as long as they don't outright say it it's tolerated).

In European cultures, sun-tanning became popular in the early 20th century due to the idea that it had health benefits (which was partly true, as many common diseases of the time were caused by vitamin D deficiency). In cold climates, tanning also became associated with wealth because in an age before tanning beds or fake tan it meant you could afford to travel in order to get a tan or spend a long time on leisure. The primary reason why people want to tan their skin is still overwhelmingly the association with health and luxury (which is deeply misguided, unless you are actually vitamin-D deficient sunlight is very bad for you).

Neither of these things have anything to do with "exoticism". One is about racism, and the other is about health myths.

I remember a few of the old - like I mean Aliens on broadcast TV old - Gillette commercials and I remember them being very masculine but not obnoxiously so. Some bright spark even used the same song to do a parody of Vegeta shaving his mustache in DragonBall GT which I found endlessly hilarious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTiHkuTXnBM

This whole thing is hilarious on so many levels to me.

1) You have the group being offended. Being offended over a corporate advert is dumb and its playing into the controversy they were trying to stir up.

2) You have the people buying Gillette products to spite Group 1. This is the stupidest group.

3) You have people calling Group 1 whiney man-babies for feeling attacked while also claiming Group 1 is defending toxic masculinity. A big issue with toxic masculinity is suppressing emotions and not expressing your feelings. So shaming a group for expressing their feelings of being attacked while simultaneously demanding they stop suppressing those feelings is just confusing and shows a lack of any kind of awareness.

4) The people pointing out that womens razors are more expensive. Just buy the cheaper mens razors. No one is forcing you to buy the one with a slightly curvier handle.

I can't believe that people got triggered by a Gillette ad. As if a corporation like that gives a flying fuck about politics. It's all about the money. The #MeToo movement is winning, which means that Gillette took a calculated risk and they concluded that making that ad will yield a positive result in the future. Same thing happened with Kaepernick and Nike. It's fuckin' hilarious that people got triggered though. Personally, I use Gillette Mach3 and I don't see a reason to stop.

Adam Jensen:
Personally, I use Gillette Mach3 and I don't see a reason to stop.

I think the Mach3 was the last good razor they made -- the Fusion was alright, but I didn't like the weird rubber strip on it and the blades are outrageously expensive. Don't get me started on the ones that vibrate -- who wants a shaky razor?!

Look, I like the actual message. Bullshit like bullying, sexual abuse, unwarranted attacks, and raising our boys to be monsters has to stop. No question.

However, I severely doubt Gillette actually cares. It's a stunt, like Nike did with Kaepernick. Why are people paying so much focus on this?

ObsidianJones:
Look, I like the actual message. Bullshit like bullying, sexual abuse, unwarranted attacks, and raising our boys to be monsters has to stop. No question.

However, I severely doubt Gillette actually cares. It's a stunt, like Nike did with Kaepernick. Why are people paying so much focus on this?

Because it served it's purpose, it got people talking about something that is often avoided. Regardless of the motive, it being so public opened up the conversation and put the spotlight on the topic. Even when " the Rock" did so previously and genuinely, it was not as public and confrontational as this Gillette ad. We need more people to put the spotlight on the subject so that we have an opportunity to increase understanding if we hope to change any of these things long term.

I am not even going to even watch the commercial. I feel like its going preachy but nothing really offending that I will upset myself at the rage its causing. Besides I went Dollar Shave Club and never went back. Also I laugh at people now caring about company hypocrisy when they take a liberal stance on something.....miss me with that nonsense.

I will give Gillette credit from the out pour at least they did better than Pepsi to get a message across.

CM156:
I'm not going to buy razors from any company that doesn't make its stance on the expulsion of Cham Albanians clear.

Cham Albanians? Dare I even ask what that means?

You're all overlooking the fact that the backlash was totally intended and hyped up to boost viewing. All publicity is good, remember.

Lil devils x:

ObsidianJones:
Look, I like the actual message. Bullshit like bullying, sexual abuse, unwarranted attacks, and raising our boys to be monsters has to stop. No question.

However, I severely doubt Gillette actually cares. It's a stunt, like Nike did with Kaepernick. Why are people paying so much focus on this?

Because it served it's purpose, it got people talking about something that is often avoided. Regardless of the motive, it being so public opened up the conversation and put the spotlight on the topic. Even when " the Rock" did so previously and genuinely, it was not as public and confrontational as this Gillette ad. We need more people to put the spotlight on the subject so that we have an opportunity to increase understanding if we hope to change any of these things long term.

But it didn't. All it did was further divide and entrench people. I've seen people angry at the ad, people angry at the people angry at the ad and people mocking people angry at the ad.

I've not seen a single actual discussion about the issues raised in the ad.

Incidentally, Egard Watches made a response ad.

https://youtu.be/x_HL0wiK4Zc

CyanCat47:

CM156:
I'm not going to buy razors from any company that doesn't make its stance on the expulsion of Cham Albanians clear.

Cham Albanians? Dare I even ask what that means?

So Chams were a mix with Greeks and lived at the top of Greece. They were vilified and were deported to interment camps at the start of WW2. Once Italy took over, they helped Italy. This made them hated by the rest of Greece and they ran to Albania.
Since then, they have asked to return ro Greece but no dice. I don't know recent history of the Chams so maybe that's what's offensive. But I'm not anti Cham at this time

Here Comes Tomorrow:

Lil devils x:

ObsidianJones:
Look, I like the actual message. Bullshit like bullying, sexual abuse, unwarranted attacks, and raising our boys to be monsters has to stop. No question.

However, I severely doubt Gillette actually cares. It's a stunt, like Nike did with Kaepernick. Why are people paying so much focus on this?

Because it served it's purpose, it got people talking about something that is often avoided. Regardless of the motive, it being so public opened up the conversation and put the spotlight on the topic. Even when " the Rock" did so previously and genuinely, it was not as public and confrontational as this Gillette ad. We need more people to put the spotlight on the subject so that we have an opportunity to increase understanding if we hope to change any of these things long term.

But it didn't. All it did was further divide and entrench people. I've seen people angry at the ad, people angry at the people angry at the ad and people mocking people angry at the ad.

I've not seen a single actual discussion about the issues raised in the ad.

Incidentally, Egard Watches made a response ad.

https://youtu.be/x_HL0wiK4Zc

This video is so strange. This says 'Is a man are broken?' And similar ideas. I don't see how this was better.

I guess since there's a question mark it's okay? Maybe I should add question marks to everything to make people less offended. Then we head to Red Pill territory which means I agree with some of the percentages. Homelessness and workplace suicide is definitely a problems. Combat losses... since women have been banned from frontline combat that's an unfair statistic against women but needs to be told to remind us of their sacrifice.

And 50% of fathers without visitation rights still pay alimony... I don't know if this is a positive. A lot of these fathers would have committed Domestic Violence so....

It's as silly as Gillette using the term Toxic Masculinity because it's a confusing term for most people

Edit: fun fact Feminists have been sayinf the Patriarchy hurts men just as much as women for a lone time. These are usually facts they would use in response

It is an interesting example of our hyperactive "Triggered!!!" culture. It's not just the SJWs and feminists who get triggered, its the rednecks and republicans too. It is funny how fragile "masculinity" is, that men need to "defend" it at every turn.
If a boy picks up a pink unicorn, "Oh NOES! His masculinity is threatened!".
If a woman works in construction, "Oh NOES! The women are taking men's jobs!".
Suggest that men do all they can to stop bullying, "Oh NOES!".

ObsidianJones:
Look, I like the actual message. Bullshit like bullying, sexual abuse, unwarranted attacks, and raising our boys to be monsters has to stop. No question.

However, I severely doubt Gillette actually cares. It's a stunt, like Nike did with Kaepernick. Why are people paying so much focus on this?

^ Spot on.

CyanCat47:

CM156:
I'm not going to buy razors from any company that doesn't make its stance on the expulsion of Cham Albanians clear.

Cham Albanians? Dare I even ask what that means?

They're a group of Albanians that hail from northern Greece who were expelled after WWII on charges of collaboration with the Axis. Many have wanted to exercise a "right of return" in the aftermath of the end of communist Albania but have not been permitted and the Greek government isn't likely to compromise.

trunkage:

CyanCat47:

CM156:
I'm not going to buy razors from any company that doesn't make its stance on the expulsion of Cham Albanians clear.

Cham Albanians? Dare I even ask what that means?

So Chams were a mix with Greeks and lived at the top of Greece. They were vilified and were deported to interment camps at the start of WW2. Once Italy took over, they helped Italy. This made them hated by the rest of Greece and they ran to Albania.
Since then, they have asked to return ro Greece but no dice. I don't know recent history of the Chams so maybe that's what's offensive. But I'm not anti Cham at this time

I just picked one of the most obscure issues I know about in order to make a comment about our expectations that companies take sides in cultural conflicts/issues.

"This advert dares question our sense of masculinity! We need to prove how macho and tough we are, so lets throw a big whiny tantrum like children about it! That'll prove our point!"

If they're going to be that thin skinned then honestly they probably shouldn't be using razors in the first place

ObsidianJones:
Look, I like the actual message. Bullshit like bullying, sexual abuse, unwarranted attacks, and raising our boys to be monsters has to stop. No question.

However, I severely doubt Gillette actually cares. It's a stunt, like Nike did with Kaepernick. Why are people paying so much focus on this?

Because it pisses off shitty people.

I am glad Nike did their thing with Kaepernick. I still don't buy anything from Nike.

If Corporations are going to do some good, even if it is for the sake of greed, it is better than them doing evil for the sake of greed. And exposure to this stuff is good. Did you know ads are far more commonly using untraditional families in their ads now? Interracial couples (which is fucked up it took this long for this to be more normalized), and even gay couples.

There is also a women's deoderant ad that had a transwoman in the ad. The tagline being something like 'No matter how you define being a woman' or something like that.

We are constantly exposed to ads, the least they could do is push a more positive message.

Its called normalization, and it is good.

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