New Gillette commercial "not an indictment on manhood"

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erttheking:
Because she had no idea who the heck he was and women walking on their daily commute don't care for random guys hitting on them when they're on their daily commute.

Talk to a woman and ask what they actually want sometimes, you might learn something.

What do you think that guy was trying to do? He was going to introduce himself to her and talk to her. You contradict yourself.

You also claim to speak for all women. Do they know that you speak for them? And they're okay with it?

Gorfias:
But this ad has a cock blocker stop, from what I can tell, an attractive man from chatting her up. What if he is charming and rich too. Who says that girl would have wanted the cock blocker to act as he did? In France, they're talking of making it illegal to even try. I suppose I would prefer that kind of concrete line. For now? This ad assumes that line already exists.

To others seemingly shocked that freedom = risk: example my right to eat what I want exposes me to risk. I may eat wrong and get sick, fat, or die early. I want that risk. I'll take it over having government agents surround me, guns drawn, telling me to drop the doughnut and eat an apple.

You know, I wonder if you'd be more sensitive to how much it sucks to be constantly approached by strange men if they were approaching YOU with the intention of picking you up with lines like "Damn your ass is so fine!" and this happened pretty frequently.

I mean what if he's rich and charming? Who says that men like you would want a cock blocker to stop him from chatting you up? He has no way of knowing if you're not interested in potential sex! It could lead to happiness, who knows?

Or maybe, random pickups between any sex/gender should happen in places where you generally know it's acceptable, and not randomly on the street?

Again, how often does randomly trying to pick up chicks on the street lead to happy relationships, compared to picking up chicks at places where you share common interests, or where everyone knows that they're there to find people? Seriously, most people walking down the street are trying to get someplace, not look for love.

Gorfias:
suggesting that little boys be drugged rather than allowed to rough house is the problem.

I'm sorry, who's suggesting that?

I haven't seen anyone in this thread suggest that. I didn't see the ad suggest that.

The ad had a dad talk down the roughhousing kid and go "Hey, we don't treat each other like that, alright?"

I know I'M certainly not in favor of drugging boys to stop roughhousing and I'm not sure where this accusation comes from.

Kerg3927:

erttheking:
Because she had no idea who the heck he was and women walking on their daily commute don't care for random guys hitting on them when they're on their daily commute.

Talk to a woman and ask what they actually want sometimes, you might learn something.

What do you think that guy was trying to do? He was going to introduce himself to her and talk to her. You contradict yourself.

You also claim to speak for all women. Do they know that you speak for them? And they're okay with it?

Yeah I've yet to meet a woman who wants to meet a horny guy on the street when she's trying to get somewhere. Also he was going to introduce himself? Yeah no he wasn't. Is that how things go? They seem to be more glorified wolf whistles.

I. Talk. To. Women. I don't claim to speak for them all, but I've yet to meet one who would want to be hit on in the street. Have you? Do you regularly hit on strangers in the street and they like it? You seem to be making broad claims about women too. I'd like to know what you're basing it on.

erttheking:

Hm let me think about it. No. I mean what even gives you the right to demand I don?t read your posts? What am I supposed to do? Cover my eyes and scroll down if I see your avatar? No.

You claim to speak for abused men. I AM an abused man. I was bullied and hit. And I don?t care for the way you view women. I?m not shutting up because it?s inconvenient for you.

The term, "please" means it is a request.

Fine.

Until you knock off the authoritarian bent that make you imply that men are monolithic and have to get your permission to talk about our issues, I cannot write that I will reply.

Gorfias:

erttheking:

Hm let me think about it. No. I mean what even gives you the right to demand I don?t read your posts? What am I supposed to do? Cover my eyes and scroll down if I see your avatar? No.

You claim to speak for abused men. I AM an abused man. I was bullied and hit. And I don?t care for the way you view women. I?m not shutting up because it?s inconvenient for you.

The term, "please" means it is a request.

Fine.

Until you knock off the authoritarian bent that make you imply that men are monolithic and have to get your permission to talk about our issues, I cannot write that I will reply.

Your request isn't reasonable.

Wow, you just keep putting words in my mouth. My problem is that I have more knowledge about abused men than non abused men, including you. You regularly relay information I know is wrong from experience. And you don't care. You just call me authoritarian, which is only one step above calling me a Nazi.

aegix drakan:

You know, I wonder if you'd be more sensitive to how much it sucks to be constantly approached by strange men if they were approaching YOU with the intention of picking you up with lines like "Damn your ass is so fine!" and this happened pretty frequently.

I mean what if he's rich and charming? Who says that men like you would want a cock blocker to stop him from chatting you up? He has no way of knowing if you're not interested in potential sex! It could lead to happiness, who knows?

Or maybe, random pickups between any sex/gender should happen in places where you generally know it's acceptable, and not randomly on the street?

Again, how often does randomly trying to pick up chicks on the street lead to happy relationships, compared to picking up chicks at places where you share common interests, or where everyone knows that they're there to find people? Seriously, most people walking down the street are trying to get someplace, not look for love.

Then I support the French. Either this is OK or it isn't. I do think people and the situations they run into is complex.

Check 1:10 into this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75aX9mlipiY

I'm sorry, who's suggesting that?

I haven't seen anyone in this thread suggest that. I didn't see the ad suggest that.

The ad had a dad talk down the roughhousing kid and go "Hey, we don't treat each other like that, alright?"

I know I'M certainly not in favor of drugging boys to stop roughhousing and I'm not sure where this accusation comes from.

Someone doesn't have to shout "I have to pee" to suggest that while they're doing a pee dance they have to pee.

The ad shows the guy break up a fight. Suppose that doesn't do it? When he turns away, they're back at it. What happens next? Some cold hard stats: https://www.addrc.org/adhd-numbers-facts-statistics-and-you/

And about that guy that says smile and that's verboten?

This ad is nuts and hateful.

erttheking:

My problem is that I have more knowledge about abused men than non abused men, including you. You regularly relay information I know is wrong from experience. And you don?t care. You just call me authoritarian, which is only one step above calling me a Nazi.

You have no idea what my experiences are, nor would I want you to know.

I don't discount your experiences.. You are discounting mine.

And you are watching a male bashing ad that may have real social implications and are writing "meh".

The number of down votes for that video (that even those I think tailored meant to make it looked upon more favorably than it really was) suggest I'm on point understanding how toxic and hateful.

Currently https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koPmuEyP3a0 710K up, 1.2 down.

Lil devils x:

"twerking moms" have NOTHING to do with teenage pregnancy, two major factors impact that: 1) lack of access to resources 2) lack of education. It is honestly pretty messed up you would think that Twerking leads to teenage pregnancy in the first place. Black communities have been kept in poverty since the end of slavery, teenage pregnancies are directly related to poverty, not twerking and happen in twerking and non twerking communities. You have some " misguided" ideas on sex here. For example, women who are confident enough to twerk are also usually confident enough to purchase a form of birth control if they can afford to do so.

Also in regards to how men treat women by how they are dressed, women are actually MORE likely to be targeted for rape if they wear long sleeves covering their skin and appear to be shy because predators see them as less likely to report them because they would actually have to tell someone what happened to them over and over again and shy girls lack the confidence to do so.

" Even though it is thought that women who dress provocatively are the most likely to be rape, studies show that women with passive, submissive personalities are more likely to get raped. These women tend to wear clothes that are concealing such as high neckline, long pants and long sleeves. This may sound ironic but, predatory men can identify submissive women by their style of dress."

https://hubpages.com/politics/Through-the-Eyes-of-Criminals-Ways-not-to-be-Singled-Out
It is not the confident twerking woman who is more likely to be targeted, it is the modest, shy one. Not only by rapist, but also PUA's looking for that one night stand. They want the less confident woman, and scantily clad women are usually far too confident for that.

My point was misconstrued. No shit twerking doesn't "cause" those issues; however it is more of an associational factor. We have different ideas about what's considered socially decent behavior. Out at a party or whatever if someone wants to start twerking for a laugh, fine. But you give the impression you expect to be able to twerk your way through a job interview or something.

Not sure how or why rape got dragged into this. Should all women start dressing with their ass and tits hanging out to ward off potential threats? Those are some pretty narrow parameters to support your viewpoint. The biggest reason why there are so many emboldened sexual predators is because our weak society enables them. As far as being "confident", I'd rather start with women learning self defense and firearm safety before twerking, as well as taking advantage of concealed carry laws while they're still available. Women shouldn't feel like they have to be able to jiggle their ass cheeks to feel confident out on the streets. Again, in an age where women want to be thought of as more than sex objects, it seems a bit demeaning and counterproductive.

I'll just leave this here for fun.

Gorfias:

aegix drakan:

You know, I wonder if you'd be more sensitive to how much it sucks to be constantly approached by strange men if they were approaching YOU with the intention of picking you up with lines like "Damn your ass is so fine!" and this happened pretty frequently.

I mean what if he's rich and charming? Who says that men like you would want a cock blocker to stop him from chatting you up? He has no way of knowing if you're not interested in potential sex! It could lead to happiness, who knows?

Or maybe, random pickups between any sex/gender should happen in places where you generally know it's acceptable, and not randomly on the street?

Again, how often does randomly trying to pick up chicks on the street lead to happy relationships, compared to picking up chicks at places where you share common interests, or where everyone knows that they're there to find people? Seriously, most people walking down the street are trying to get someplace, not look for love.

Then I support the French. Either this is OK or it isn't. I do think people and the situations they run into is complex.

Check 1:10 into this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75aX9mlipiY

I'm sorry, who's suggesting that?

I haven't seen anyone in this thread suggest that. I didn't see the ad suggest that.

The ad had a dad talk down the roughhousing kid and go "Hey, we don't treat each other like that, alright?"

I know I'M certainly not in favor of drugging boys to stop roughhousing and I'm not sure where this accusation comes from.

Someone doesn't have to shout "I have to pee" to suggest that while they're doing a pee dance they have to pee.

The ad shows the guy break up a fight. Suppose that doesn't do it? When he turns away, they're back at it. What happens next? Some cold hard stats: https://www.addrc.org/adhd-numbers-facts-statistics-and-you/

And about that guy that says smile and that's verboten?

This ad is nuts and hateful.

Do you walk around smiling with everything you do? While pumping gas? While buying toilet paper? Do you go around telling other men to smile for you like they are at your disposal to serve you? Not likely because you would look like the joker right? You would look scary and frightening and police my stop you and check to see if you are on drugs or dangerous. People would keep their children away from you. People smile when they are happy and that should not be dictated to them to do. Not only is it insulting to expect others to smile for your entertainment, it is arrogant to think that other people exist for something for you to look at. Instead, it is far more likely they hope you do not exist at all if you are so imposing upon them to try to expect their emotions, their choice of attire, their personal space to be affected by you at all. People should be able to show their emotions, whether happy or sad and that should be none of your business. People should be able to wear or not wear what they want and it should be none of your business. People should be able to walk to and from wherever they want and that should be none of your business. None of this is an open invitation to you or anyone else for that matter to tell them they should EXPECT to be imposed upon by you or anyone else simply for going about their business.

No, people are not cold, we greet each other and interact in cordial ways, but telling someone to smile for you is not doing that. It is invasive, and RUDE. Expecting people to worry about being harassed when they dress themselves is invasive, expecting to be able to touch other people is invasive. I have no idea why you think this is how people should interact with one another at all. Your approved "approach" to flirting is gross, and not flattering. There are plenty of good ways to flirt, but it is like you choose the worst possible methods as those that should be defended. Flirting is not bad, it is all about how, when, where and why. What you do and say matters to make it not negative, creepy and gross. It is like all you want to do is promote the negative rather than actually show people respect.

Gorfias:

aegix drakan:

You know, I wonder if you'd be more sensitive to how much it sucks to be constantly approached by strange men if they were approaching YOU with the intention of picking you up with lines like "Damn your ass is so fine!" and this happened pretty frequently.

I mean what if he's rich and charming? Who says that men like you would want a cock blocker to stop him from chatting you up? He has no way of knowing if you're not interested in potential sex! It could lead to happiness, who knows?

Or maybe, random pickups between any sex/gender should happen in places where you generally know it's acceptable, and not randomly on the street?

Again, how often does randomly trying to pick up chicks on the street lead to happy relationships, compared to picking up chicks at places where you share common interests, or where everyone knows that they're there to find people? Seriously, most people walking down the street are trying to get someplace, not look for love.

Then I support the French. Either this is OK or it isn't. I do think people and the situations they run into is complex.

Check 1:10 into this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75aX9mlipiY

I'm sorry, who's suggesting that?

I haven't seen anyone in this thread suggest that. I didn't see the ad suggest that.

The ad had a dad talk down the roughhousing kid and go "Hey, we don't treat each other like that, alright?"

I know I'M certainly not in favor of drugging boys to stop roughhousing and I'm not sure where this accusation comes from.

Someone doesn't have to shout "I have to pee" to suggest that while they're doing a pee dance they have to pee.

The ad shows the guy break up a fight. Suppose that doesn't do it? When he turns away, they're back at it. What happens next? Some cold hard stats: https://www.addrc.org/adhd-numbers-facts-statistics-and-you/

And about that guy that says smile and that's verboten?

This ad is nuts and hateful.

erttheking:

My problem is that I have more knowledge about abused men than non abused men, including you. You regularly relay information I know is wrong from experience. And you don?t care. You just call me authoritarian, which is only one step above calling me a Nazi.

You have no idea what my experiences are, nor would I want you to know.

I don't discount your experiences.. You are discounting mine.

And you are watching a male bashing ad that may have real social implications and are writing "meh".

The number of down votes for that video (that even those I think tailored meant to make it looked upon more favorably than it really was) suggest I'm on point understanding how toxic and hateful.

Currently https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koPmuEyP3a0 710K up, 1.2 down.

So much for you not replying anymore.

If you?re not going to share your experiences then I can hardly analyze them. Ergo they might as well not exist. Either share them with the class or don?t complain when they?re not factored in.

Saying men shouldn?t harsss or bully is male bashing? You insult me. You say that harassment and bullying are part of the male identity. You say that I, as a man, bully and harass. That expecting men to object to it is for us to sacrafice our masculinity. I am more insulted by you than an ad could ever make me. Terry Crews, a victim of abuse, was in that ad. Is he a self hating male?

Oh, and appealing to popularity is a logical fallacy.

https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/40/Appeal-to-Popularity

Do you have any arguments aside from fallacies and hurt feelings?

hanselthecaretaker:

Lil devils x:

"twerking moms" have NOTHING to do with teenage pregnancy, two major factors impact that: 1) lack of access to resources 2) lack of education. It is honestly pretty messed up you would think that Twerking leads to teenage pregnancy in the first place. Black communities have been kept in poverty since the end of slavery, teenage pregnancies are directly related to poverty, not twerking and happen in twerking and non twerking communities. You have some " misguided" ideas on sex here. For example, women who are confident enough to twerk are also usually confident enough to purchase a form of birth control if they can afford to do so.

Also in regards to how men treat women by how they are dressed, women are actually MORE likely to be targeted for rape if they wear long sleeves covering their skin and appear to be shy because predators see them as less likely to report them because they would actually have to tell someone what happened to them over and over again and shy girls lack the confidence to do so.

" Even though it is thought that women who dress provocatively are the most likely to be rape, studies show that women with passive, submissive personalities are more likely to get raped. These women tend to wear clothes that are concealing such as high neckline, long pants and long sleeves. This may sound ironic but, predatory men can identify submissive women by their style of dress."

https://hubpages.com/politics/Through-the-Eyes-of-Criminals-Ways-not-to-be-Singled-Out
It is not the confident twerking woman who is more likely to be targeted, it is the modest, shy one. Not only by rapist, but also PUA's looking for that one night stand. They want the less confident woman, and scantily clad women are usually far too confident for that.

My point was misconstrued. No shit twerking doesn?t ?cause? those issues; however it is more of an associational factor. We have different ideas about what?s considered socially decent behavior. Out at a party or whatever if someone wants to start twerking for a laugh, fine. But you give the impression you expect to be able to twerk your way through a job interview or something.

Not sure how or why rape got dragged into this. Should all women start dressing with their ass and tits hanging out to ward off potential threats? Those are some pretty narrow parameters to support your viewpoint. The biggest reason why there are so many emboldened sexual predators is because our weak society enables them. As far as being ?confident?, I?d rather start with women learning self defense and firearm safety before twerking, as well as taking advantage of concealed carry laws while they?re still available. Women shouldn?t feel like they have to be able to jiggle their ass cheeks to feel confident out on the streets. Again, in an age where women want to be thought of as more than sex objects, it seems a bit demeaning and counterproductive.

I?ll just leave this here for fun.

It really is not any random onlookers business but why someone is dressed the way they are, what they wear is entirely up to them.You may need to twerk, it depends on what you are being interviewed for. Are you interviewing to be a dancer for Beyonce? Rape got brought into this because of how female's behavior is falsely perceived. When you bring up teenage pregnancies, you also have to address rape as there is often a correlation. I will give you some insight on my perspective. I was violently raped as a child by a 24 yr old bouncer who I had never spoken to. I had seen him walking around before but never actually spoke to him before the attack. I was a kid who liked to wear oversize baggy clothes at the time. I was wearing a long sleeved shirt and baggy plaid pants at the time I was attacked. The man who raped me literally lived in a house that looked like a castle, like with the pointy tower and everything. He was wealthy, attractive and well known in the community. I felt as though he just felt he could do whatever he wanted whenever he wanted with no care and that anyone and anything was at his disposal. It took me a good amount of time and stress to recover from that and things got much worse before they got better, including waking up in the hospital with tubes down my throat after having a shot to my heart to bring me back after I attempted suicide over it all.

EDIT: Sadly this was not the ONLY time in my life I was attacked, just the only successful sexual attack.

Years later and after having confidence restored, I bartended in college at a private beach club. The club was located in a Marina,It was a 2 story club we had a swimming pool with a large waterfall, tennis courts, dance floor, games, darts and pool tablets and even served the yachts in the marina. I was the barmanager/bartender/ lifeguard. I often rode a jet ski to work as I lived right across the bay from the club and was fastest way to get to work. I worked in a bikini, shorts, crop tops and other typical beach attire. I sometimes had to take the truck to go pick up things from the store from the club, whether it was the food for the restaurant or the liquor order for the bar so yes, I would have to go into grocery stores wearing rather skimpy attire to get what we needed for that shift. I never dated anyone I have worked with or dated anyone from the club. I personally don't like to wear a lot of clothing and that has zero to do with my " decency". Sure, I have an extremely high sex drive, however, I have never had a one night stand, never cheated on a guy and never been broken up with. I have always been in loving, long term relationships.

It is not an " either or" situation on whether or not someone " learns twerking". I have been shooting since I was 8 yrs old, I grew up on a farm and have had to defend it from wild dogs and coyotes. A girl can twerk and shoot and defend herself and there is nothing that says she cannot do that AND put herself through med school. That is how this works in reality. The comedians " point" is based on ignorance. What a woman wears is not a signal to a guy in the first place and thinking it is is part of the problem. The solution here is not to police what a woman wears, it is for guys to pull their heads out of their arse and stop thinking what a girl wears has anything to do with them at all.

Gorfias:

Check 1:10 into this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75aX9mlipiY

Yeah, I think that's bad too. It would weird me out if it happened to me. Like I said, I dislike all random pickups (regardless of gender) for people just walking on the street. It's not the time and place for it.

If I'm walking around, I'm trying to get someplace and I wouldn't really appreciate a random chick doing that to me. I mean, she doesn't know whether or not I'm a horndog who wants to fuck any girl he can, or if I'm more into slow romance, or if I'm on my way to hang out with my girlfriend, or if I REALLY want to be at that LARP in 20 minutes and don't have time to chit-chat about whether or not her friend thinks I'm "hot".

Just don't come onto random people walking by. Doesn't seem all that complex to me.

Someone doesn't have to shout "I have to pee" to suggest that while they're doing a pee dance they have to pee.

The ad shows the guy break up a fight. Suppose that doesn't do it? When he turns away, they're back at it. What happens next?

What happens next is you tell the aggressor "Hey! I told you to stop. You do that again and I'll ground you for two weeks, with no video games or youtube!"

And if the kid does it again, you follow through and you ground the kid for two weeks.

If the kid keeps being a little shit, you keep slowly escalating the grounding until they finally realize "oh yeah, my actions have consequences, I should stop being a little shit".

I got grounded as a kid, and I learned what behaviour was acceptable and what wasn't. Hell, my parents once took away my video games for a YEAR because I ignored them trying to tell me that my little brother was getting nightmares from watching me play some of them, because I wanted to watch an intro cutscene rather than listen. And you know what? I learned from that. Video games are not as important as the real world, lesson learned.

So, yeah, that's what happens next. Revocation of privileges. Not drugging.

Some cold hard stats: https://www.addrc.org/adhd-numbers-facts-statistics-and-you/

I'm sorry, I hope you're not implying that ADHD isn't real and that it's some kind of scam meant to keep boys/men down.

Because I actually HAVE ADHD. I relied on medication for the first 20 years of my life in order to get through school. If I hadn't been diagnosed and hadn't been on meds, I would not have graduated high school. My lack of focus was THAT bad.

It took those 20 years for me to learn how to manage my symptoms in a way that made me comfortable getting off the meds. (Having a rigid schedule of stuff I need to work on, like at a job, helps manage my distraction considerably, for example)

And I got off the meds not because "oh no they're keeping me drugged!". I got off them because I hated being dependent on something external and because it sometime messed with my sleep cycle, which was irritating. Quite literally all those meds do is improve my focus, not subdue me or anything.

Hell, even being off the meds for 10 years (minus a few weeks where University got so hard that I went back on them for a little bit), I still recognize how much my condition affects my everyday life. Like, I should be going hardcore into my job search right now, or working on programming prototypes to help me get another job. But I got distracted from that a few hours ago by this thread and a few other things and I'm only just now going "oh yeah. I had important stuff to do. Shit, got distracted again". If they didn't mess with my sleep cycle, I'd probably have gone back on them full-time, because being able to focus easily is a freakin' godsend when I don't have a proper structure to keep me on-task.

Now, if you want to have a conversation about the overprescription of ADHD meds, we can have that conversation. But as someone who has ADHD and knows others who have ADHD, I don't see that as part of some conspiracy to keep men down. I see it as parents going "Must make sure that my kid has the best chance at school, must get focus meds!" or teachers going "I have way too many students to keep under control in this class, can't we just give them focus meds so I can focus on teaching and not corralling like 40 kids who don't want to learn?".

Are these bad things? Yes. Should they be called out? Yes. I'm calling them out right now. Unless your kid is unable to function without the meds, they shouldn't be on them.

But is this some kind of dystopian conspiracy where people go "oh no, that boy is rowdy, we must give him this drug that pacifies him and makes him civilized, hehehehehe, down with the patriarchy"? No. Hell no. That's ridiculous conspiracy-mongering

And about that guy that says smile and that's verboten?

While this is the lowest form of toxicity and honestly not all that big a deal...Lemme explain why it's "verboten" anyway.

The guy is kind of going "YO, you look prettier when you smile, so I demand you smile for me so I can appreciate you more. I don't care if you're unhappy, or not in the mood to smile, I demand you smile because my ability to better appreciate your face matters more than how you actually feel, or your own personal desire to express yourself".

If you can't see how that's rude, I don't know what to say.

This ad is nuts and hateful.

No, you're just jumping at shadows and seeing an attack on the whole male sex/gender, when really the ad is just saying "Yo, there is a problem of men being shit to each other and to women, we as men should make it clear that this behaviour isn't ok"

Agema:
Can I remind you that you said:

Just because some people don't have masculinity, don't understand it, and don't see a reason for it to exist, doesn't mean it's a good idea to get rid of it.
...
If some guys aren't masculine and don't want to be masculine, that's fine. You do you, and quit trying to force your non-masculinity on me, IMO.

Well, you don't have a right to tell other guys that they aren't masculine because they do things differently from you. Perhaps masculinity can be a lot of things that other than wrestling, hitting on girls, and whatever you think it is because it's what you do or assume is "normal".

Semantics. I guess it all depends upon how you define "masculine."

Google Dictionary defines it as "having qualities or appearance traditionally associated with men, especially strength and aggressiveness."

And that matches up pretty well with how I would define it. But I guess if someone wants to change the word to mean something else, for whatever reason, there's nothing stopping them from doing so. I mean, erttheking defined it as "the strength to better ourselves and stand up to injustice" even though that's not what the dictionary says.

But how about I edit my statements to better clarify what I mean... better?

Just because some people don't have masculinity qualities or appearance traditionally associated with men, especially strength and aggressiveness, don't understand it, and don't see a reason for it to exist, doesn't mean it's a good idea to get rid of it.
...
If some guys aren't masculine and don't want to be masculine don't have or don't want to have qualities or appearance traditionally associated with men, especially strength and aggressiveness, that's fine. You do you, and quit trying to force your non-masculinity opposing qualities on me, IMO.

Lil devils x:
[telling someone to smile can be perceived as rude

I'm told from a friend that went to Russia that the 7th episode of the "Romanoffs" rings true in that culture. A Russian woman insists that her temporary American charges stop smiling as they will look like they have escaped from an insane asylum if they keep it up. Cultures do differ.

But the guy in that ad appears to be from a US culture. He's trying to be friendly. He may actually have a sexual interest that girl. Are we supposed to return to a sort of repressed blue nose culture where this is supposed to be inappropriate?

aegix drakan:

I'm sorry, I hope you're not implying that ADHD isn't real and that it's some kind of scam meant to keep boys/men down.

Because I actually HAVE ADHD.

Revocation of privileges. Not drugging.

When 20% of kids are a type of thing, maybe that thing isn't abnormal and we should be working to find other ways to direct their energies rather than drug them.
http://www.newser.com/story/165439/almost-20-of-high-school-boys-diagnosed-with-adhd.html

Normal boys will tussle. I don't want them drugged to make them compliant for society. This add suggests they should be.

Does that mean such drugs can never help? I'm not educated in the matter enough to comment. But this, wanting to drug 20% of the boys, is wrong and an attack on healthy males.

Revocation of rights is proper for true misbehavior. I'm writing, healthy boys tussling is NOT misbehavior. Acting like it is I'm writing, is part of the war on men.

Gorfias:

Lil devils x:
[telling someone to smile can be perceived as rude

I'm told from a friend that went to Russia that the 7th episode of the "Romanoffs" rings true in that culture. A Russian woman insists that her temporary American charges stop smiling as they will look like they have escaped from an insane asylum if they keep it up. Cultures do differ.

But the guy in that ad appears to be from a US culture. He's trying to be friendly. He may actually have a sexual interest that girl. Are we supposed to return to a sort of repressed blue nose culture where this is supposed to be inappropriate?

even if you are in the US if you walk around smiling when you do everything people are going to think you insane or on drugs. It is not a normal thing to do unless you are GENUINELY happy. You do not smile from being genuinely happy simply because some weird guy judgingly expected you to display one for his entertainment.

It is not her problem if he has a sexual interest, it is his problem to control himself and not act the buffoon. He is the one with the interest, thus it is his problem to control himself. If he too horny to control himself he can go fap it off before he thinks about speaking to anyone.

Gorfias:

Lil devils x:
[telling someone to smile can be perceived as rude

I'm told from a friend that went to Russia that the 7th episode of the "Romanoffs" rings true in that culture. A Russian woman insists that her temporary American charges stop smiling as they will look like they have escaped from an insane asylum if they keep it up. Cultures do differ.

But the guy in that ad appears to be from a US culture. He's trying to be friendly. He may actually have a sexual interest that girl. Are we supposed to return to a sort of repressed blue nose culture where this is supposed to be inappropriate?

If we were in Russia, you would have a point. As it stands, we're talking about an American company that made a commercial directed at an American demographic. Why did you bring this up?

Oh wow, you continue to miss the point. He may have a sexual interest in the girl. And the girl MAY NOT! God, why do you treat male/female interactions like women are DTF 24/7? Hell, why do you act like men are DTF 24/7?

And if telling someone to smile is an attempt to be friendly, it's something that falls under "well-intentioned but utterly misinformed." You cannot tell someone to be happy. You can help them be happy, you can say so many better things. "Are you ok?" "Is something wrong?" "Is there anything I can do to help?" Telling someone to smile is short-sighted because it's shallow. It shows no concern for why they're not smiling and it comes off like you're giving an order for them to shove their problems away for your convenience.

And before you say "That's not what people mean by it!" it's how it comes off.

Agema:

Gordon_4:

I have an idea for this one. We teach our children that when they are adults, if someone is bothering them to say "Fuck off". Loudly. Clearly. It leaves no room for guess work on the other party's end.

Indeed it doesn't.

But the sort of behaviour going on here such as around wolf-whistling often isn't "courting" in some kind of sense or polite dating. It's usually aggressive and invasive: you can tell because if the woman challenges a man for catcalling in any way, the man often gets nasty very quickly. That's why women usually just ignore it and move on.

I am aware there is a risk. I still think its a good idea; people complain about mixed signals all the time. So send one its impossible to misunderstand.

erttheking:

Gorfias:

Lil devils x:
[telling someone to smile can be perceived as rude

I'm told from a friend that went to Russia that the 7th episode of the "Romanoffs" rings true in that culture. A Russian woman insists that her temporary American charges stop smiling as they will look like they have escaped from an insane asylum if they keep it up. Cultures do differ.

But the guy in that ad appears to be from a US culture. He's trying to be friendly. He may actually have a sexual interest that girl. Are we supposed to return to a sort of repressed blue nose culture where this is supposed to be inappropriate?

If we were in Russia, you would have a point. As it stands, we're talking about an American company that made a commercial directed at an American demographic. Why did you bring this up?

Oh wow, you continue to miss the point. He may have a sexual interest in the girl. And the girl MAY NOT! God, why do you treat male/female interactions like women are DTF 24/7? Hell, why do you act like men are DTF 24/7?

And if telling someone to smile is an attempt to be friendly, it's something that falls under "well-intentioned but utterly misinformed." You cannot tell someone to be happy. You can help them be happy, you can say so many better things. "Are you ok?" "Is something wrong?" "Is there anything I can do to help?" Telling someone to smile is short-sighted because it's shallow. It shows no concern for why they're not smiling and it comes off like you're giving an order for them to shove their problems away for your convenience.

And before you say "That's not what people mean by it!" it's how it comes off.

If a woman is just walking along minding her business it still is not appropriate to ask her if she is okay simply because she is not smiling. No one walks around smiling all the time while doing random things. Now if she looks distraught, genuinely upset, in need of help or lost, asking if they need help is completely appropriate. It is a matter of how, why, when and where. A guy chasing random women down in the street to tell them they look sad is rather creepy and insulting as well.

Lil devils x:

erttheking:

Gorfias:

I'm told from a friend that went to Russia that the 7th episode of the "Romanoffs" rings true in that culture. A Russian woman insists that her temporary American charges stop smiling as they will look like they have escaped from an insane asylum if they keep it up. Cultures do differ.

But the guy in that ad appears to be from a US culture. He's trying to be friendly. He may actually have a sexual interest that girl. Are we supposed to return to a sort of repressed blue nose culture where this is supposed to be inappropriate?

If we were in Russia, you would have a point. As it stands, we're talking about an American company that made a commercial directed at an American demographic. Why did you bring this up?

Oh wow, you continue to miss the point. He may have a sexual interest in the girl. And the girl MAY NOT! God, why do you treat male/female interactions like women are DTF 24/7? Hell, why do you act like men are DTF 24/7?

And if telling someone to smile is an attempt to be friendly, it's something that falls under "well-intentioned but utterly misinformed." You cannot tell someone to be happy. You can help them be happy, you can say so many better things. "Are you ok?" "Is something wrong?" "Is there anything I can do to help?" Telling someone to smile is short-sighted because it's shallow. It shows no concern for why they're not smiling and it comes off like you're giving an order for them to shove their problems away for your convenience.

And before you say "That's not what people mean by it!" it's how it comes off.

If a woman is just walking along minding her business it still is not appropriate to ask her if she is okay simply because she is not smiling. No one walks around smiling all the time while doing random things. Now if she looks distraught, genuinely upset, in need of help or lost, asking if they need help is completely appropriate. It is a matter of how, why, when and where. A guy chasing random women down in the street to tell them they look sad is rather creepy and insulting as well.

That's an excellent point. I hope I wasn't come off like I was advocating that, I wasn't, I was just trying to make a point about how "you should smile" is shallow compared to other possible actions you could have to someone not smiling.

Gordon_4:

Agema:

Gordon_4:

I have an idea for this one. We teach our children that when they are adults, if someone is bothering them to say "Fuck off". Loudly. Clearly. It leaves no room for guess work on the other party's end.

Indeed it doesn't.

But the sort of behaviour going on here such as around wolf-whistling often isn't "courting" in some kind of sense or polite dating. It's usually aggressive and invasive: you can tell because if the woman challenges a man for catcalling in any way, the man often gets nasty very quickly. That's why women usually just ignore it and move on.

I am aware there is a risk. I still think its a good idea; people complain about mixed signals all the time. So send one its impossible to misunderstand.

If only it were that easy. EVERY SINGLE TIME I HAVE TOLD A GUY TO F" OFF THEY GOT EVEN MORE PERSISTENT. It made the situation so much worse. Then they are like " you're a fiesty one aren't you?" and " it is sexy when a girl gets mean". you have no idea how bad this actually turns out in practice.

Lil devils x:

It is not her problem if he has a sexual interest, it is his problem to control himself and not act the buffoon. He is the one with the interest, thus it is his problem to control himself. If he too horny to control himself he can go fap it off before he thinks about speaking to anyone.

So, in public, men must NEVER show sexual interest lest they be labeled buffoon? At a party!?! I'm sure SOME men let girls know of their sexual interest, the female is glad of it, things escalate, and they marry, have kids, families and a future.

As it is, minus immigration, the West is not even reproducing to replacement levels. https://www.thoughtco.com/total-fertility-rate-1435463

Gorfias:

Lil devils x:

It is not her problem if he has a sexual interest, it is his problem to control himself and not act the buffoon. He is the one with the interest, thus it is his problem to control himself. If he too horny to control himself he can go fap it off before he thinks about speaking to anyone.

So, in public, men must NEVER show sexual interest lest they be labeled buffoon? At a party!?! I'm sure SOME men let girls know of their sexual interest, the female is glad of it, things escalate, and they marry, have kids, families and a future.

As it is, minus immigration, the West is not even reproducing to replacement levels. https://www.thoughtco.com/total-fertility-rate-1435463

stop acting like the only option is to behave like a buffoon. I have made it pretty clear it is all about "How, why, when and where." If guys think telling girls to smile, chasing them down in the streets and doing other rude ass shat is how to get a date then I would expect that birth rate to drop off to the point we go extinct. The problem is how these men who do these things view and interact with women. Men who don't act the buffoon seem to not have a problem with it. The man in my shower right now would never do any of those things and he had no problem speaking to me in a respectful way. Yes, there are positive and negative interactions, it is a matter of learning how to do so the right way instead of the wrong way.

erttheking:

Lil devils x:

erttheking:

If we were in Russia, you would have a point. As it stands, we're talking about an American company that made a commercial directed at an American demographic. Why did you bring this up?

Oh wow, you continue to miss the point. He may have a sexual interest in the girl. And the girl MAY NOT! God, why do you treat male/female interactions like women are DTF 24/7? Hell, why do you act like men are DTF 24/7?

And if telling someone to smile is an attempt to be friendly, it's something that falls under "well-intentioned but utterly misinformed." You cannot tell someone to be happy. You can help them be happy, you can say so many better things. "Are you ok?" "Is something wrong?" "Is there anything I can do to help?" Telling someone to smile is short-sighted because it's shallow. It shows no concern for why they're not smiling and it comes off like you're giving an order for them to shove their problems away for your convenience.

And before you say "That's not what people mean by it!" it's how it comes off.

If a woman is just walking along minding her business it still is not appropriate to ask her if she is okay simply because she is not smiling. No one walks around smiling all the time while doing random things. Now if she looks distraught, genuinely upset, in need of help or lost, asking if they need help is completely appropriate. It is a matter of how, why, when and where. A guy chasing random women down in the street to tell them they look sad is rather creepy and insulting as well.

That's an excellent point. I hope I wasn't come off like I was advocating that, I wasn't, I was just trying to make a point about how "you should smile" is shallow compared to other possible actions you could have to someone not smiling.

Of course you didn't come off that way, I just wanted to make sure it was made clear that there was a time and place for everything.

Gorfias:

Normal boys will tussle. I don't want them drugged to make them compliant for society. This add suggests they should be.

THE AD.

DOES NOT.

FUCKING.

SUGGEST.

ANY.

SUCH.

THING.

If you REALLY think that a guy calmly telling a kid "Hey, we don't treat each other like that" suggests that if the kid does not calm down they will "drug him to make him compliant for society", you are looking for shit that's not there.

It's right up there with irrational thoughts like "The government is pushing for kids to have many vaccines, because they want to inject mercury in their veins and make them autistic so they can't question the government!"

The ad. Suggests. No. Such. THING.

aegix drakan:

I'm sorry, I hope you're not implying that ADHD isn't real and that it's some kind of scam meant to keep boys/men down.

Because I actually HAVE ADHD.

When 20% of kids are a type of thing, maybe that thing isn't abnormal and we should be working to find other ways to direct their energies rather than drug them.
http://www.newser.com/story/165439/almost-20-of-high-school-boys-diagnosed-with-adhd.html

Does that mean such drugs can never help? I'm not educated in the matter enough to comment. But this, wanting to drug 20% of the boys, is wrong and an attack on healthy males.

Well listen to me, because I am part of the ADD community and have experience here.

First, I already addressed that medication is over-prescribed, and that if a kid can cope without meds, he shouldn't be on meds. And that, in my experience as an ADD person, who knows other ADD people, it is not in any way done to "make boys compliant".

Second. The medication does NOT in any way "calm people down" or "make them compliant". What it typically does is make your neurons connect faster. Which makes it easier to focus. It is in no way a sedative, or a compliance-inducing drug.

Again, I would not have graduated from high school if I did not have those meds helping me focus. Trying to find other ways to "direct my energies" would have done jack shit to help me and many people like me. The meds in no way made me calm down, they just allowed me to concentrate that energy more specifically on what I wanted to focus on.

It is in NO CONCEIVABLE WAY a sedative to make males compliant. This. Is. Conspiracy. Mongering. On almost the same level as anti-vaxxers.

Finally, you phrase ADD meds as an attack on healthy males.

You know what IS an attack on healthy males, dude?

Parents and school administrators who see boys bullying other boys and going "oh well, that's how boys are!" and not stopping the bullying, leading to the victim either becoming traumatized by their experience like I was, or outright committing suicide.

THAT is an attack on healthy males. Not "oh hey, this kid has trouble concentrating, maybe we should give them some medication to help them focus".

So forgive me, if having had positive experience with much needed ADD meds and having seen my horrendous torment (that nearly drove me to suicide) justified as "stuff boys do that's normal", my rage is concentrated on the excused bullying and not the medication that allowed me to grow to become a productive adult.

erttheking:
Yeah I?ve yet to meet a woman who wants to meet a horny guy on the street when she?s trying to get somewhere. Also he was going to introduce himself? Yeah no he wasn?t. Is that how things go? They seem to be more glorified wolf whistles.

I. Talk. To. Women. I don?t claim to speak for them all, but I?ve yet to meet one who would want to be hit on in the street. Have you? Do you regularly hit on strangers in the street and they like it? You seem to be making broad claims about women too. I?d like to know what you?re basing it on.

I haven't hit on a girl in 20 years. I've been married for 16 years, and dated her/lived with her for 4 year prior to that.

Seems to me that you've got this picture in your mind of most hetersexual men being uncontrolled animals that whistle and pee on fire hydrants every time they see a pretty woman. Sure, there are some people like that out there. But they're usually not successful. The successful ones are cool like Fonzie. Controlled. They have game. They're charming. They can chat with a girl they've never met, she's flattered, and the next thing you know the guy has a phone number.

And make no mistake, not every young, single girl is going to be offended by a good looking, charming dude walking up and chatting with them. For some it might make their day. I don't know, maybe you only talk to particularly unfriendly women?

Lil devils x:
stop acting like the only option is to behave like a buffoon.

Maybe I am misunderstanding you. You appear to be writing that if you are at a party and say to a girl, "smile" and she can tell you said that because you are sexually interested, you are being a buffoon.

Because I think this position is crazy blue nose repressive cold and adding to a culture that is failing at the most important things concerning love, sex, families, children, etc.

Am I misreading you?

I have made it pretty clear it is all about "How, why, when and where." If guys think telling girls to smile, chasing them down in the streets and doing other rude ass shat is how to get a date then I would expect that birth rate to drop off to the point we go extinct. The problem is how these men who do these things view and interact with women. Men who don't act the buffoon seem to not have a problem with it. The man in my shower right now would never do any of those things and he had no problem speaking to me in a respectful way. Yes, there are positive and negative interactions, it is a matter of learning how to do so the right way instead of the wrong way.

You appear to have a very repressive view of what we can consider right and wrong.

erttheking:

And if telling someone to smile is an attempt to be friendly, it's something that falls under "well-intentioned but utterly misinformed." You cannot tell someone to be happy. You can help them be happy, you can say so many better things. "Are you ok?" "Is something wrong?" "Is there anything I can do to help?" Telling someone to smile is short-sighted because it's shallow. It shows no concern for why they're not smiling and it comes off like you're giving an order for them to shove their problems away for your convenience.

And before you say "That's not what people mean by it!" it's how it comes off.

THANK YOU, this cuts to the heart of the thing. I wish I had thought of it that way when replying to that point.

aegix drakan:

erttheking:

And if telling someone to smile is an attempt to be friendly, it's something that falls under "well-intentioned but utterly misinformed." You cannot tell someone to be happy. You can help them be happy, you can say so many better things. "Are you ok?" "Is something wrong?" "Is there anything I can do to help?" Telling someone to smile is short-sighted because it's shallow. It shows no concern for why they're not smiling and it comes off like you're giving an order for them to shove their problems away for your convenience.

And before you say "That's not what people mean by it!" it's how it comes off.

THANK YOU, this cuts to the heart of the thing. I wish I had thought of it that way when replying to that point.

Errrr, telling the girl to smile may signal sexual interest, particularly at a party, resulting possibly in sex, a relationship, marriage, children, families, communities, nations and a future.

Shaming someone in this situation? Welcome to the new hostile totalitarianism.

Gorfias:

aegix drakan:

erttheking:

And if telling someone to smile is an attempt to be friendly, it's something that falls under "well-intentioned but utterly misinformed." You cannot tell someone to be happy. You can help them be happy, you can say so many better things. "Are you ok?" "Is something wrong?" "Is there anything I can do to help?" Telling someone to smile is short-sighted because it's shallow. It shows no concern for why they're not smiling and it comes off like you're giving an order for them to shove their problems away for your convenience.

And before you say "That's not what people mean by it!" it's how it comes off.

THANK YOU, this cuts to the heart of the thing. I wish I had thought of it that way when replying to that point.

Errrr, telling the girl to smile may signal sexual interest, particularly at a party, resulting possibly in sex, a relationship, marriage, children, families, communities, nations and a future.

Shaming someone in this situation? Welcome to the new hostile totalitarianism.

You say...it may signal sexual interest...as if it excuses the underlying problems.

And as if anyone gives a fuck.

Newsflash. Sexual interest doesn't excuse unwanted behavior. What is so hard to understand about this? Your boner does not warrant special exemptions.

Also, you signify sexual interest by telling someone she should smile? I'm sorry, do you think ladies are interested in sex because someone tells them to smile? Because I've seen women in this thread only criticize your approaches to flirting, and you merrily ignore them.

tstorm823:

Saelune:

All Republicans do is very poorly bash Ocasio-Cortez, because she is everything your side hates. The thing is, they have nothing on her and Republicans are floundering.

Republicans have no ground to yell 'fake news', even though it is their catch phrase when the truth is hurting them.

I agree, there are a lot of poor criticisms of her. I'd argue that happens not because she's everything my side hates, but because she talks, a lot. Most politicians don't talk so publicly so often, and they especially don't put numbers on things, and she does these things aggressively. I really like that about her, and I hope most of the criticism keeps bouncing off of her so that we can get past the point where people keep their mouths shut about the issues thinking its politically expedient to say as little as possible. I think socialism is typically a mistake and every one of her solutions, except maybe the "Green New Deal" depending on the details, is misguided, but her insistence on talking about problems is a good thing and I like it. And constantly attacking her is dumb.

But everyone has grounds to yell "fake news" at fake news. if you don't want to hear about fake news, don't buy into it.

Trump supporters actively oppose facts that prove how terrible and incompetent Trump is.

Trump supporters coined the phrase 'alternative facts', literally one of the dumbest things in all of history ever.

Gorfias:

aegix drakan:

erttheking:

And if telling someone to smile is an attempt to be friendly, it's something that falls under "well-intentioned but utterly misinformed." You cannot tell someone to be happy. You can help them be happy, you can say so many better things. "Are you ok?" "Is something wrong?" "Is there anything I can do to help?" Telling someone to smile is short-sighted because it's shallow. It shows no concern for why they're not smiling and it comes off like you're giving an order for them to shove their problems away for your convenience.

And before you say "That's not what people mean by it!" it's how it comes off.

THANK YOU, this cuts to the heart of the thing. I wish I had thought of it that way when replying to that point.

Errrr, telling the girl to smile may signal sexual interest, particularly at a party, resulting possibly in sex, a relationship, marriage, children, families, communities, nations and a future.

Shaming someone in this situation? Welcome to the new hostile totalitarianism.

Yeah, women, why can't you just submit to the orders and attention of misguided or belligerant men? They're doing it for the future people, why can't women everyone just get over their own personal wants and feelings and focus on the future? What, do you think you live in a society that values individual freedom or something?

Welcome to the new hostile totalitarianism.

Oh I see, being pressured to both entertain the comments of imbeciles and have children "for the future of the nation" is the opposite of totalitarianism, of course. Easy mistake to make.

erttheking:

Gorfias:

aegix drakan:

THANK YOU, this cuts to the heart of the thing. I wish I had thought of it that way when replying to that point.

Errrr, telling the girl to smile may signal sexual interest, particularly at a party, resulting possibly in sex, a relationship, marriage, children, families, communities, nations and a future.

Shaming someone in this situation? Welcome to the new hostile totalitarianism.

You say...it may signal sexual interest...as if it excuses the underlying problems.

And as if anyone gives a fuck.

Newsflash. Sexual interest doesn't excuse unwanted behavior. What is so hard to understand about this? Your boner does not warrant special exemptions.

Also, you signify sexual interest by telling someone she should smile? I'm sorry, do you think ladies are interested in sex because someone tells them to smile? Because I've seen women in this thread only criticize your approaches to flirting, and you merrily ignore them.

Gorfias has made it very clear where he holds the blame between men and women.

Gorfias:

Lil devils x:
stop acting like the only option is to behave like a buffoon.

Maybe I am misunderstanding you. You appear to be writing that if you are at a party and say to a girl, "smile" and she can tell you said that because you are sexually interested, you are being a buffoon.

Because I think this position is crazy blue nose repressive cold and adding to a culture that is failing at the most important things concerning love, sex, families, children, etc.

Am I misreading you?

I have made it pretty clear it is all about "How, why, when and where." If guys think telling girls to smile, chasing them down in the streets and doing other rude ass shat is how to get a date then I would expect that birth rate to drop off to the point we go extinct. The problem is how these men who do these things view and interact with women. Men who don't act the buffoon seem to not have a problem with it. The man in my shower right now would never do any of those things and he had no problem speaking to me in a respectful way. Yes, there are positive and negative interactions, it is a matter of learning how to do so the right way instead of the wrong way.

You appear to have a very repressive view of what we can consider right and wrong.

The only time it is appropriate to tell a girl to smile is if you are holding a camera trying to take her picture or are her dentist. Outside of that, yes, it is behaving like a buffoon. There are so many GOOD things to say to start a conversation, that just doesn't happen to be one of them.

No that position isn't cold, I love having sex multiple times a day and have an absurd amounts of men hit on me in non offensive ways all the damn time. I do not know ANY women who want a guy to tell them to smile. Why would anyone do something that asinine when they can do something that is not offensive? You know what the guy in my shower right now said to me to start a conversation? I was playing darts with my friends and he bet I couldn't make a shot. Then after friendly banter we discussed common interests. So easy to start conversation a billion different ways to not be offensive there is no reason to be a creeper.

No, It is not repressive to treat a girl as an equal, like an individual with thoughts and feelings and find common interests rather than some doll that exists solely for your amusement. HUGE difference.

Gorfias:

aegix drakan:

erttheking:

And if telling someone to smile is an attempt to be friendly, it's something that falls under "well-intentioned but utterly misinformed." You cannot tell someone to be happy. You can help them be happy, you can say so many better things. "Are you ok?" "Is something wrong?" "Is there anything I can do to help?" Telling someone to smile is short-sighted because it's shallow. It shows no concern for why they're not smiling and it comes off like you're giving an order for them to shove their problems away for your convenience.

And before you say "That's not what people mean by it!" it's how it comes off.

THANK YOU, this cuts to the heart of the thing. I wish I had thought of it that way when replying to that point.

Errrr, telling the girl to smile may signal sexual interest, particularly at a party, resulting possibly in sex, a relationship, marriage, children, families, communities, nations and a future.

Shaming someone in this situation? Welcome to the new hostile totalitarianism.

Forgive me, but I think having a conversation with the girl about whatever she's currently talking about, and then upon establishing a mutual connection/interest/etc going "Hey, you're really fun to talk to. Want to add me on Facebook / Want to chat more over coffee sometime?" has a considerably better chance at getting me into a relationship than seeing a pretty girl and demanding her to "Smile".

Which, you know, like Err said in the quoted post is basically telling the girl "Hey, look happy, even if you're not. I actually only care about if you LOOK happy, I don't actually care if deep down you're not".

erttheking:

Newsflash. Sexual interest doesn't excuse unwanted behavior. What is so hard to understand about this? Your boner does not warrant special exemptions.

Also, you signify sexual interest by telling someone she should smile? I'm sorry, do you think ladies are interested in sex because someone tells them to smile? Because I've seen women in this thread only criticize your approaches to flirting, and you merrily ignore them.

Freedom means that some things can go badly. There is risk involved. I tell you I'm interested in sex. Maybe you have sex with me. Maybe you throw a drink at me and make me feel the emotional pain of rejection. We take risks.

Do we repress freedom and create a more rigid authoritarian society in which people have to be even less themselves? It used to be that way. No gays allowed. Sex in marriage only. Arranged marriages with child brides. In such a society, a girl would be protected from guys telling her to smile. Course, we may then start stoning women for having sex out of wedlock.

How far down this rabbit hole do you want to go?

Saelune:
Gorfias has made it very clear where he holds the blame between men and women.

I fully accept a woman's right to say no. I'll fight to keep from being a society that throws gay men off of building roof tops.

Lil devils x:
The only time it is appropriate to tell a girl to smile is if you are holding a camera trying to take her picture or are her dentist. Outside of that, yes, it is behaving like a buffoon.

OK. Understood. I hope you never get to judge someone for using a salad fork on an entree. And sorry, many GOOD, healthy, productive lasting relationships start with fleeting sexual attraction. There are girls that would love to have someone tell them to smile and rock their world. Followed with marriage, kids and family. You are right that there are more than one ways for this to happen but we're not supposed to live in a rigid world where only one way is enforced. Or should you have had a coming out party at 16 followed by chaperoned dating?

aegix drakan:

Which, you know, like Err said in the quoted post is basically telling the girl "Hey, look happy, even if you're not. I actually only care about if you LOOK happy, I don't actually care if deep down you're not".

Or he's signalling that he thinks she's hot, wants to have sex and would be even more attractive to him if she smiled. Which she may respond by telling him to go take a shower... or smile at the attention, spark up a conversation followed by sex, marriage, kids, etc.

It isn't the only way. Not the best way for most. (I found feeding the missus lots of salad bar and movies helped). I don't want to live in some rigid, cold, super judgemental society that shames people especially for reasonably innocent actions. And saying "smile" in itself is relatively innocent.

Gorfias:

erttheking:

Newsflash. Sexual interest doesn't excuse unwanted behavior. What is so hard to understand about this? Your boner does not warrant special exemptions.

Also, you signify sexual interest by telling someone she should smile? I'm sorry, do you think ladies are interested in sex because someone tells them to smile? Because I've seen women in this thread only criticize your approaches to flirting, and you merrily ignore them.

Freedom means that some things can go badly. There is risk involved. I tell you I'm interested in sex. Maybe you have sex with me. Maybe you throw a drink at me and make me feel the emotional pain of rejection. We take risks.

Do we repress freedom and create a more rigid authoritarian society in which people have to be even less themselves? It used to be that way. No gays allowed. Sex in marriage only. Arranged marriages with child brides. In such a society, a girl would be protected from guys telling her to smile. Course, we may then start stoning women for having sex out of wedlock.

How far down this rabbit hole do you want to go?

Saelune:
Gorfias has made it very clear where he holds the blame between men and women.

I fully accept a woman's right to say no. I'll fight to keep from being a society that throws gay men off of building roof tops.

Lil devils x:
The only time it is appropriate to tell a girl to smile is if you are holding a camera trying to take her picture or are her dentist. Outside of that, yes, it is behaving like a buffoon.

OK. Understood. I hope you never get to judge someone for using a salad fork on an entree. And sorry, many GOOD, healthy, productive lasting relationships start with fleeting sexual attraction. There are girls that would love to have someone tell them to smile and rock their world. Followed with marriage, kids and family. You are right that there are more than one ways for this to happen but we're not supposed to live in a rigid world where only one way is enforced. Or should you have had a coming out party at 16 followed by chaperoned dating?

Seriously, that was so bad I actually laughed. If a girl agrees to date a man after he said " smile" it is IN SPITE OF rather than because of him saying it. She being willing to overlook his BS. And what part of this part of my post that you cut out :

No that position isn't cold, I love having sex multiple times a day and have an absurd amounts of men hit on me in non offensive ways all the damn time. I do not know ANY women who want a guy to tell them to smile. Why would anyone do something that asinine when they can do something that is not offensive? You know what the guy in my shower right now said to me to start a conversation? I was playing darts with my friends and he bet I couldn't make a shot. Then after friendly banter we discussed common interests. So easy to start conversation a billion different ways to not be offensive there is no reason to be a creeper.

No, It is not repressive to treat a girl as an equal, like an individual with thoughts and feelings and find common interests rather than some doll that exists solely for your amusement. HUGE difference.

don't you understand? For you to give the response you did about " fleeting sexual attraction" you would have to have not understood that you are more likely to receive a positive response by never telling a woman to smile than doing one of many other things. When your options are to " say the worst thing possible" or "anything else" why go with the worst thing possible? You are more likely to get laid by challenging a woman to a game than by telling her to smile. You do understand telling a girl to smile is in no way a compliment right?It is belittling and demeaning and is nicer to let the door shut in her face than to tell her to obey your commands.

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