New Gillette commercial "not an indictment on manhood"

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Here Comes Tomorrow:
I think we should all acknowledge that no one who posts on a video game forum knows how to interact with another actual human properly.

Actual humans? You mean the 3d real non-playable characters who hand me my food?

We're supposed to interact with them?

.... oooohhhhhhhhhhhhh... the last few decades makes sense now!

jademunky:

Silent Protagonist:

Is that supposed to be worse? I'd much rather people tell me to smile because they think it makes me look attractive rather than because it mitigates some vaguely threatening aura I can apparently unwittingly exude. And again, I'd like to reiterate that the request to smile doesn't bother me, because it means the person making the request knows or just assumes that I am not a scary person and don't want to come across as such and is reminding me of a way to help me not do that. Plus smiling is just generally good for you, particularly for someone like me whose broken brain chemistry needs all the help it can get. I'm usually grateful when someone asks me to smile rather than insulted. Still, it would be a lot easier to not take offense if the underlying implication was "I think you're pretty" and not "Your presence is making people uncomfortable".

But what you are not understanding is that, unlike your situation where friends are offering constructive criticism, women often get totally unsolicited requests from complete strangers to do so and it is creepy as fuck.

Example: My wife, at the time, and I were coming home from our honeymoon and were stuck in the goddamn Denver airport for 12 hours because our connecting flight left before our plane even landed there. She broke down and cried somewhere around hour 8 and some old fuck came over to her and told her she'd be prettier if she smiled more. Seriously I, of all people, found myself contemplating the consequences of criminal assault in a foreign country!

Sounds like an over-reaction on your part then. He might have seen it as trying to cheer her up. Did you perhaps think that maybe what constitutes polite or acceptable changes with time and that this would have been perfectly acceptable when he was young?

Here Comes Tomorrow:
I think we should all acknowledge that no one who posts on a video game forum knows how to interact with another actual human properly.

I think we should stop pretending that people on the internet are not people. I think we should stop acting like a computer screen somehow excuses a person's behavior.

Specter Von Baren:

Sounds like an over-reaction on your part then. He might have seen it as trying to cheer her up. Did you perhaps think that maybe what constitutes polite or acceptable changes with time and that this would have been perfectly acceptable when he was young?

Its equally valid to suggest that what was and is acceptable has changed over time because in the past, women were expected to put up with what is, frankly, anti-social behaviour without comment. The difference is that now women are being treated more equally and are finally able to express their umbrage with this bullshit. As evidenced by the women on this forum talking about their experiences, not just in this thread.

Take for example: In the past, how it was acceptable to treat gay people? How it was acceptble to treat foreign people / minorities? How was it acceptable to treat secular / religious people? And so on.

Here Comes Tomorrow:
I think we should all acknowledge that no one who posts on a video game forum knows how to interact with another actual human properly.

I don't have problems interacting with other humans properly, but see I also know it is better not to discuss religion, politics, or personal issues in a professional environment if you want to keep your " bedside manner" score high, so I save it for here. :)

Saelune:

Here Comes Tomorrow:
I think we should all acknowledge that no one who posts on a video game forum knows how to interact with another actual human properly.

I think we should stop pretending that people on the internet are not people. I think we should stop acting like a computer screen somehow excuses a person's behavior.

Yea, I never really "got" the whole idea that "what you say on the internet doesn't count" mindset as if there is a separation between online and " Real life" when the opposite is true. What you say online is FOREVER. It can be used against you in a court of law. People should be MORE careful, not less with what they post online, but then you have these masses of people that have some false sense of security like they are writing in their diary with disappearing ink or something.

hanselthecaretaker:

Lil devils x:

It really is not any random onlookers business but why someone is dressed the way they are, what they wear is entirely up to them.You may need to twerk, it depends on what you are being interviewed for. Are you interviewing to be a dancer for Beyonce? Rape got brought into this because of how female's behavior is falsely perceived. When you bring up teenage pregnancies, you also have to address rape as there is often a correlation. I will give you some insight on my perspective. I was violently raped as a child by a 24 yr old bouncer who I had never spoken to. I had seen him walking around before but never actually spoke to him before the attack. I was a kid who liked to wear oversize baggy clothes at the time. I was wearing a long sleeved shirt and baggy plaid pants at the time I was attacked. The man who raped me literally lived in a house that looked like a castle, like with the pointy tower and everything. He was wealthy, attractive and well known in the community. I felt as though he just felt he could do whatever he wanted whenever he wanted with no care and that anyone and anything was at his disposal. It took me a good amount of time and stress to recover from that and things got much worse before they got better, including waking up in the hospital with tubes down my throat after having a shot to my heart to bring me back after I attempted suicide over it all.

EDIT: Sadly this was not the ONLY time in my life I was attacked, just the only successful sexual attack.

Years later and after having confidence restored, I bartended in college at a private beach club. The club was located in a Marina,It was a 2 story club we had a swimming pool with a large waterfall, tennis courts, dance floor, games, darts and pool tablets and even served the yachts in the marina. I was the barmanager/bartender/ lifeguard. I often rode a jet ski to work as I lived right across the bay from the club and was fastest way to get to work. I worked in a bikini, shorts, crop tops and other typical beach attire. I sometimes had to take the truck to go pick up things from the store from the club, whether it was the food for the restaurant or the liquor order for the bar so yes, I would have to go into grocery stores wearing rather skimpy attire to get what we needed for that shift. I never dated anyone I have worked with or dated anyone from the club. I personally don't like to wear a lot of clothing and that has zero to do with my " decency". Sure, I have an extremely high sex drive, however, I have never had a one night stand, never cheated on a guy and never been broken up with. I have always been in loving, long term relationships.

It is not an " either or" situation on whether or not someone " learns twerking". I have been shooting since I was 8 yrs old, I grew up on a farm and have had to defend it from wild dogs and coyotes. A girl can twerk and shoot and defend herself and there is nothing that says she cannot do that AND put herself through med school. That is how this works in reality. The comedians " point" is based on ignorance. What a woman wears is not a signal to a guy in the first place and thinking it is is part of the problem. The solution here is not to police what a woman wears, it is for guys to pull their heads out of their arse and stop thinking what a girl wears has anything to do with them at all.

Firstly, I?m sorry to read that you ever had to go through something like that. Hopefully that guy?s breathing through tubes now himself, if he?s even still alive. I believe there are always at least two ways of looking at things, and the upside here would be you?re probably a much stronger person now living through a tragic experience. Kudos to that.

I never meant to give the impression that women should be covered regardless of what they do, because of course that doesn?t make sense, unless perhaps if they?re Islamic (even then it?s pretty extreme...). This whole exchange seemed to unravel through too much generalization over dancing of all things. The basic point was meant to be if we are going to compare ?conservative white people? dancing to something more sexually charged, it kinda goes without saying which might have more caveats attached for influencing certain kinds of behavior; particularly with kids too young to understand what the hell they?re even doing or what it means. Our society needs to mature quite a bit more for these cultural disparities to balance out.

Having said that, I?d think that regardless of background, most reasonable people could appreciate the talent on display in something like Dancing with the Stars. Seems like a pretty decent middle ground, which this country could really use more of in other far more vital forums of life.

I think they are hypocritical though in what they perceive as acceptable and not acceptable.

This sort of dancing is seen as acceptable by "conservative white people":

But a girl shaking her booty is not because it is an African dance? The dance moves that are acceptable are far more sexually charged than shaking your arse.

EDIT: I also do not think what happened to me made me stronger. It made me more afraid, not stronger. It made me realize that no matter what I did I will always be helpless in that situation regardless of if I had Mace or a gun or anything else for that matter. If someone really wants to hurt you, they will do so because they wait for the perfect opportunity to do so when there is no way possible you could stop them. Predatory people understand how to minimize their risks and will always have the upper hand. When people are determined to hurt you they will and no one will come and save you or stop them. Unlike what some people seem to think, if it doesn't kill you it in no way makes you stronger.

EDIT2: It isn't like people haven't been shaking their booties for a long time now:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPj3SJcx0Wc
Watch the video closely, their hips and butt of both male and female dancers. It is just a problem when black people do it right?

Lil devils x:

Here Comes Tomorrow:
I think we should all acknowledge that no one who posts on a video game forum knows how to interact with another actual human properly.

I don't have problems interacting with other humans properly, but see I also know it is better not to discuss religion, politics, or personal issues in a professional environment if you want to keep your " bedside manner" score high, so I save it for here. :)

Saelune:

Here Comes Tomorrow:
I think we should all acknowledge that no one who posts on a video game forum knows how to interact with another actual human properly.

I think we should stop pretending that people on the internet are not people. I think we should stop acting like a computer screen somehow excuses a person's behavior.

Yea, I never really "got" the whole idea that "what you say on the internet doesn't count" mindset as if there is a separation between online and " Real life" when the opposite is true. What you say online is FOREVER. It can be used against you in a court of law. People should be MORE careful, not less with what they post online, but then you have these masses of people that have some false sense of security like they are writing in their diary with disappearing ink or something.

Humanity is more social than ever. Suddenly we count our acquaintances among people across the globe. On here I regularly interact with Brits, Australians, Germans, and who knows where else. Personally I think that's great and highly under-appreciated, but that also means my actions are farther reaching than my local town.

Its a small world these days, our neighbors are no longer just who you see out your house's windows.

Specter Von Baren:

Sounds like an over-reaction on your part then. He might have seen it as trying to cheer her up. Did you perhaps think that maybe what constitutes polite or acceptable changes with time and that this would have been perfectly acceptable when he was young?

Did I take time to think that? No, I was rather busy arguing with the people at the ticket counter, keeping someone I loved from having what was otherwise a fantastic vacation ruined and keeping one eye on the plane schedules to keep anything like that in mind.

Should I have?

*edit* I was polite and all to this guy but was kinda fuming inside. Also it was 11 years ago.

Specter Von Baren:

jademunky:

Silent Protagonist:

Is that supposed to be worse? I'd much rather people tell me to smile because they think it makes me look attractive rather than because it mitigates some vaguely threatening aura I can apparently unwittingly exude. And again, I'd like to reiterate that the request to smile doesn't bother me, because it means the person making the request knows or just assumes that I am not a scary person and don't want to come across as such and is reminding me of a way to help me not do that. Plus smiling is just generally good for you, particularly for someone like me whose broken brain chemistry needs all the help it can get. I'm usually grateful when someone asks me to smile rather than insulted. Still, it would be a lot easier to not take offense if the underlying implication was "I think you're pretty" and not "Your presence is making people uncomfortable".

But what you are not understanding is that, unlike your situation where friends are offering constructive criticism, women often get totally unsolicited requests from complete strangers to do so and it is creepy as fuck.

Example: My wife, at the time, and I were coming home from our honeymoon and were stuck in the goddamn Denver airport for 12 hours because our connecting flight left before our plane even landed there. She broke down and cried somewhere around hour 8 and some old fuck came over to her and told her she'd be prettier if she smiled more. Seriously I, of all people, found myself contemplating the consequences of criminal assault in a foreign country!

Sounds like an over-reaction on your part then. He might have seen it as trying to cheer her up. Did you perhaps think that maybe what constitutes polite or acceptable changes with time and that this would have been perfectly acceptable when he was young?

That guy was rude.

If it was acceptable when he was young, it was because being rude and sexist was acceptable then. Understanding how the past viewed things is good for -understanding- them, but that doesn't mean it wasn't racist or sexist back then just because racism and sexism were more accepted then.

Saelune:

Specter Von Baren:

jademunky:

But what you are not understanding is that, unlike your situation where friends are offering constructive criticism, women often get totally unsolicited requests from complete strangers to do so and it is creepy as fuck.

Example: My wife, at the time, and I were coming home from our honeymoon and were stuck in the goddamn Denver airport for 12 hours because our connecting flight left before our plane even landed there. She broke down and cried somewhere around hour 8 and some old fuck came over to her and told her she'd be prettier if she smiled more. Seriously I, of all people, found myself contemplating the consequences of criminal assault in a foreign country!

Sounds like an over-reaction on your part then. He might have seen it as trying to cheer her up. Did you perhaps think that maybe what constitutes polite or acceptable changes with time and that this would have been perfectly acceptable when he was young?

That guy was rude.

If it was acceptable when he was young, it was because being rude and sexist was acceptable then. Understanding how the past viewed things is good for -understanding- them, but that doesn't mean it wasn't racist or sexist back then just because racism and sexism were more accepted then.

That argument always reminds me of Clint Eastwood. He said in an interview that people are too sensitive now because things are being called racist that never would have been considered racist when he was a kid. Bearing in mind Clint Eastwood was goddamned 25 when Rosa Parks was refusing to move to the back of the bus and you get a pretty good idea of what was and wasn't considered racist when Clint Eastwood was a kid.

Specter Von Baren:

Sounds like an over-reaction on your part then. He might have seen it as trying to cheer her up. Did you perhaps think that maybe what constitutes polite or acceptable changes with time and that this would have been perfectly acceptable when he was young?

Someone is emotionally upset and this guy's idea of cheering her up is giving her advice on how to look prettier? At the very best, this guy was clueless, and misguided good intentions don't count for a whole lot when you end up coming off like an insensitive prick.

Yeah, and I'm pretty sure that when he was young it would've been acceptable for him to throw the N word around freely. What was acceptable when he was young doesn't matter. Because he's not young anymore. Times have changed. I've learned to stop using words that were homophobic and ableist because I was a shithead when I was 13. I had twelve years to adapt and I did it just fine. This guy can too. It sounds like he just doesn't want to.

Question. Why do we as a society give so much leeway to the elderly when it comes to growing the fuck up?

erttheking:

Specter Von Baren:

Sounds like an over-reaction on your part then. He might have seen it as trying to cheer her up. Did you perhaps think that maybe what constitutes polite or acceptable changes with time and that this would have been perfectly acceptable when he was young?

Someone is emotionally upset and this guy's idea of cheering her up is giving her advice on how to look prettier? At the very best, this guy was clueless, and misguided good intentions don't count for a whole lot when you end up coming off like an insensitive prick.

Yeah, and I'm pretty sure that when he was young it would've been acceptable for him to throw the N word around freely. What was acceptable when he was young doesn't matter. Because he's not young anymore. Times have changed. I've learned to stop using words that were homophobic and ableist because I was a shithead when I was 13. I had twelve years to adapt and I did it just fine. This guy can too. It sounds like he just doesn't want to.

It was also acceptable to rape wives back then, if im not mistaken. And beat your kids. 'Property' to do as please with as opposed to living feeling humans.

ineptelephant:

Specter Von Baren:

Sounds like an over-reaction on your part then. He might have seen it as trying to cheer her up. Did you perhaps think that maybe what constitutes polite or acceptable changes with time and that this would have been perfectly acceptable when he was young?

Its equally valid to suggest that what was and is acceptable has changed over time because in the past, women were expected to put up with what is, frankly, anti-social behaviour without comment. The difference is that now women are being treated more equally and are finally able to express their umbrage with this bullshit. As evidenced by the women on this forum talking about their experiences, not just in this thread.

Take for example: In the past, how it was acceptable to treat gay people? How it was acceptble to treat foreign people / minorities? How was it acceptable to treat secular / religious pe
ople? And so on.

And you will see the same argument Specter made used in instance in which other groups are targeted.

Thaluikhain:

Gorfias:
I fully accept a woman's right to say no. I'll fight to keep from being a society that throws gay men off of building roof tops.

But you'll vote for the party that attacks rape victims and LGBT people.

Saying you'll oppose such doesn't outweigh that.

For that matter, the same party is pushing the US towards totalitarianism. Opposing a company cashing in on telling men that harassment and bullying aren't ok and pretending that'll lead the US towards totalitarianism doesn't outweigh that either.

There are serious social and political threats to the US, don't expect people to think of you as a hero when you keep supporting the villains.

And the other major party, their illegal wars, "believe her" when she's apparently lying about an innocent man, nose counting racist bigotry, anti-science views, social planning and hatred of liberty, etc. is the only moral option? I don't think so. As they are part of this war on men and boys they are the greater of two evils.

undeadsuitor:

I said you have traditional views on sex and marriage (ie that the ultimate goal of all relationships is marriage and children), not homosexuality (which you also have shown disapproval of)

Nature's ultimate goal for sex is procreation. Society has a dog in this fight. Getting people married and having kids is a huge part of building a society that carries on the existing one. In the far future, it may be like Brave New World and women will no longer be the one's having kids but it will be done through exogenisis. For now, we know this functions.

Neurotic Void Melody:

You should definitely be honest with her. Honesty is always the best policy. Otherwise it's self censorship. And everyone knows how bad censorship is. Every person deserves the full information in which to make an actual informed decision instead of being lied to. Living a lie will bring any person down in the end and take whoever they care about too.

I don't think total honesty works in marriage. I don't think it even works in friendships. What is it you want, what do you predict will be the outcome of an action. Example: woman asks if I mind doing X. Even if I do mind, if it is my wife asking, I'll say not at all and try to get it done. She didn't marry me to have me saying "no" to stuff.

Lil devils x:
The point is a guy who tells a girl to smile is a "Reg flag" to a guy who has zero respect for them as a person, it makes them gross, so why would anyone want to waste their time with that? A " bad boy" doesn't even do that, he is a different type of guy all together. Bad boys know what a girl wants, says all the right things, even if he is lying, he is smooth, chill and relaxed. the complete opposite of some jerk who tells girls to smile. He " takes care of a girl". While he takes good care of his girl ( more likely girls*), he may also be a bully to other guys. He is also frequently a criminal, a cheater, a liar and uses his skills for all the wrong reasons.

Bad boys, from what I hear, can act indifferent to a woman. This signals to a hypergamous woman that he is of a higher status, and therefore more attractive to them. A guy that is obsequious to a woman (at least during the early stages of the dating/hanging out) will appear to be a lower status and a turn off. I guess saying things like "smile" makes a guy more a player. I knew a guy we called "ugly George" (he was a short, strange looking man) who somehow could get laid in a nunnery. He would use a line like "smile" and more and get lucky. A lot.

It is apparent in this forum, there is hostility to this kind of thing. I guess I just have to accept that.

Gorfias:
And the other major party, their illegal wars, "believe her" when she's apparently lying about an innocent man, nose counting racist bigotry, anti-science views, social planning and hatred of liberty, etc. is the only moral option? I don't think so. As they are part of this war on men and boys they are the greater of two evils.

As that is not something happening in the really real world, it doesn't count. There isn't a war against men and boys. There's a pushback against the idea that there is one, and only one (not terribly good) form of masculinity. The GOP is actively, and obviously anti-LGBT and rape victims for reals, they've made no secret of it, it's one of the reasons their supporters vote for them.

As Saelune would say, anything (or at least anything actually bad) you can say about Clinton/Obama/the Dems you can say worse about Trump/the GOP.

In any case, you were talking about "fully accepting" and "fighting for". Not "support in some vague and meaningless way" not "unless I can't vote for the GOP who'll try to make things worse". You're not fully accepting a woman's right to say no if you vote for a man who boasts about sexually assaulting women (or arguing for marital rape to be de-criminalised). You're not fighting for a society that protects LGBT people if you vote for people who want to take away protections for LGBT people.

By comparison, if Obama boasted about all the drone-striking he'd do before the election, you couldn't vote for him and claim to be totally anti drone strikes and expect to be taken terribly seriously.

Thaluikhain:
snip

I'm sure this will never happen, an ad like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtmPg_WQakI

image

Trump is the first person to run for President endorsing gay marriage. He's dragging the party, kicking and screaming into a more tolerant position. He's trying, against a bi-partisan elite, take us out of Syria, and illegal presence. And if you voted Hillary, you were supporting that war.

Gorfias:
Trump is the first person to run for President endorsing gay marriage. He's dragging the party, kicking and screaming into a more tolerant position.

This is flat out, completely, and obviously, untrue. Hell, did you miss this thread? Not to mention the rest of what he and his have been doing for the last two years.

Yeah, he posed with a flag. C'mon.

Gorfias:
And if you voted Hillary, you were supporting that war.

Oh? Did Clinton make staying in Syria indefinitely part of her campaign?

In any case, again, you cannot say you fully support a women's right to say no and then vote for someone who boasts about sexually assaulting women. You can't do both.

Thaluikhain:

Gorfias:
Trump is the first person to run for President EDIT [and Win] endorsing gay marriage. He's dragging the party, kicking and screaming into a more tolerant position.

This is flat out, completely, and obviously, untrue. Hell, did you miss this thread? Not to mention the rest of what he and his have been doing for the last two years.

Yeah, he posed with a flag. C'mon.

I support what he ran on. When he didn't need to do so, he supported bathroom selection choice. I do not know why he made the military choice he did. Bigotry? Or was it like taking someone with a known existing condition that would cost a fortune in medical costs while failing to deploy when needed?

But I just answered a poll at another forum. I won't be voting for him again. I won't be defending him again.

And if you voted Hillary, you were supporting that war.

Oh? Did Clinton make staying in Syria indefinitely part of her campaign?

In any case, again, you cannot say you fully support a women's right to say no and then vote for someone who boasts about sexually assaulting women. You can't do both.

She is a hawk. A warmonger. And a career criminal. She would have expanded the war.

I figured Trump would betray his base. I knew HRC would and the only way to have stopped her was to vote for Trump.

I'll support AOC next election before I'd vote for him.

Lil devils x:

I think they are hypocritical though in what they perceive as acceptable and not acceptable.

This sort of dancing is seen as acceptable by "conservative white people":

But a girl shaking her booty is not because it is an African dance? The dance moves that are acceptable are far more sexually charged than shaking your arse.

EDIT: I also do not think what happened to me made me stronger. It made me more afraid, not stronger. It made me realize that no matter what I did I will always be helpless in that situation regardless of if I had Mace or a gun or anything else for that matter. If someone really wants to hurt you, they will do so because they wait for the perfect opportunity to do so when there is no way possible you could stop them. Predatory people understand how to minimize their risks and will always have the upper hand. When people are determined to hurt you they will and no one will come and save you or stop them. Unlike what some people seem to think, if it doesn't kill you it in no way makes you stronger.

EDIT2: It isn't like people haven't been shaking their booties for a long time now:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPj3SJcx0Wc
Watch the video closely, their hips and butt of both male and female dancers. It is just a problem when black people do it right?

I don't make the rules, but reckon it's more of a conservative/liberal thing than black/white. Pretty obvious just by looking at the examples, as in black or white church going crowds wouldn't be into it much. Also it's not like black dancers haven't ever done anything similar, or haven't influenced it to become more socially acceptable in mainstream society in the first place.

Not sure what the issue really is anymore seeing as how mainstream culture is far more liberal now than it's ever been; at least in America.

Not sure if this been posted yet, what to think really of it as they're obviously baiting, but it does kinda call out Gillete on their more hidden motives.

Gorfias:

Thaluikhain:
snip

I'm sure this will never happen, an ad like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtmPg_WQakI

image

Trump is the first person to run for President endorsing gay marriage. He's dragging the party, kicking and screaming into a more tolerant position. He's trying, against a bi-partisan elite, take us out of Syria, and illegal presence. And if you voted Hillary, you were supporting that war.

NO HE DID FUCKING NOT! Do not for one second dare to push such an outrageous lie! Trump HATES LGBT people, HATES HATES HATES US!

Only 1 President has ever been pro-LGBT, and that was Obama.

Trump can rot in Hell.

Trump ran on building a wall because he is a racist.

He kicked trans people out of the military cause he hates LGBT people.

He rapes women cause he is a chauvinistic scumbag.

Trump is only terrible. There is LITERALLY no redeeming qualities to Trump AT ALL.

Saelune:

Gorfias:

Thaluikhain:
snip

Trump is the first person to run for President EDIT and win, endorsing gay marriage. He's dragging the party, kicking and screaming into a more tolerant position. He's trying, against a bi-partisan elite, take us out of Syria, and illegal presence. And if you voted Hillary, you were supporting that war.

NO HE DID FUCKING NOT! Do not for one second dare to push such an outrageous lie! Trump HATES LGBT people, HATES HATES HATES US!

Only 1 President has ever been pro-LGBT, and that was Obama.

Trump can rot in Hell.

Obama is a political animal. He vacillated as he felt he needed to. EDIT: Sorry, copied wrong link... here's another.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpXjtzOVZnU

On the other hand, Trump: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/23/us/politics/donald-trump-gay-rights.html

I think Trump has no center. He'd happily make money off of gay marriage, or off of those opposed to it. Hate takes an actual point of view which I do not think Trump posses about virtually anything.

hanselthecaretaker:
Not sure if this been posted yet, what to think really of it as they?re obviously baiting, but it does kinda call out Gillete on their more hidden motives.

Crazy good clip! Thanks for sharing.

hanselthecaretaker:

Lil devils x:

I think they are hypocritical though in what they perceive as acceptable and not acceptable.

This sort of dancing is seen as acceptable by "conservative white people":

But a girl shaking her booty is not because it is an African dance? The dance moves that are acceptable are far more sexually charged than shaking your arse.

EDIT: I also do not think what happened to me made me stronger. It made me more afraid, not stronger. It made me realize that no matter what I did I will always be helpless in that situation regardless of if I had Mace or a gun or anything else for that matter. If someone really wants to hurt you, they will do so because they wait for the perfect opportunity to do so when there is no way possible you could stop them. Predatory people understand how to minimize their risks and will always have the upper hand. When people are determined to hurt you they will and no one will come and save you or stop them. Unlike what some people seem to think, if it doesn't kill you it in no way makes you stronger.

EDIT2: It isn't like people haven't been shaking their booties for a long time now:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPj3SJcx0Wc
Watch the video closely, their hips and butt of both male and female dancers. It is just a problem when black people do it right?

I don?t make the rules, but reckon it?s more of a conservative/liberal thing than black/white. Pretty obvious just by looking at the examples, as in black or white church going crowds wouldn?t be into it much. Also it?s not like black dancers haven?t ever done anything similar, or haven?t influenced it to become more socially acceptable in mainstream society in the first place.

Not sure what the issue really is anymore seeing as how mainstream culture is far more liberal now than it?s ever been; at least in America.

That is just it, I took images of specific dance types that are frequently church sponsored events here, even in the " bible belt".
Not only do the churches here condone this, they even provide the venue.

Churches all over the US have sponsored these very dances and events that include these moves:
http://www.crosswaypa.org/swing-dancing-event
https://www.gottaswing.com/calendarold/2018/10/10/classes-at-westminster-church-sw-washington-dc-d6crt-ndft3
https://www.gottaswing.com/calendarold/2018/10/25/new-classes-start-at-evangelical-reformed-church-frederick-ct5f2-88khr-xl3ra-jmesw-kx626-aaysg-3wgte-xaaes-jk3al-4dfrt-y2b62
https://www.cambridgeshire.net/activity/lindy-hop-dance-class/105479.aspx#.XE39hFVKjDc
http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/olympic-figure-skating-star-hailed-as-example-for-catholics

The first " hop" dance and figure skating event I ever attended were both provided by Churches.

You are correct in that Black dancers have done such, swing dance moves originated from black dancers, however, due to how segregated society was at the time, these were considered " white dances" because they were introduced to mainstream white society by white dancers who had learned the moves from black dancers. As long as white people were not aware of it's origins at the time it was okay. There is a long history of " whitewashing" black dancers, singers, poets, and others and accredit it to white people to allow it to be considered acceptable. People mistakenly thought this was a part of " white culture" when in fact it originated in black culture. As long as they were oblivious to this, they accepted it.

https://www.phillymag.com/news/2012/03/01/american-bandstand-didnt-allow-blacks/
https://theswingdancecompany.co.uk/history/
https://www.salon.com/2014/05/17/elvis_wasnt_the_first/

The History goes deeper than that though. Those who were aware of the origins ALSO are aware of the racist promotion of square dancing.
https://mic.com/articles/186892/how-square-dancing-became-a-weapon-of-white-supremacy-against-an-anti-semitic-jazz-dance-conspiracy#.zyakHmUep

There is far more to it than whether or not a dance is too sexy or not. American mainstream culture is far from being the the world leader in Liberal culture. There are plenty who are far more liberal than the US, the US is viewed as pretty " backwards" by many of my European friends.

Gorfias:
Obama is a political animal. He vacillated as he felt he needed to. EDIT: Sorry, copied wrong link... here's another.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpXjtzOVZnU

On the other hand, Trump: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/23/us/politics/donald-trump-gay-rights.html

I think Trump has no center. He'd happily make money off of gay marriage, or off of those opposed to it. Hate takes an actual point of view which I do not think Trump posses about virtually anything.

I'm so glad you pointed this out.

I'm going to share this with everyone I can.

Because it shows how Good of a President Obama was.

If he did believe that before and doesn't now, if that's how he truly thinks, or he said it just to get into office, I say it makes no difference. Because he did something about it. He gave LGBTQ rights they have never seen before. Agency they never seen before. And if he truly ever or still felt that way when he empowered LGBTQ civil rights... More the better. Because (if true) he put his personal beliefs aside to do what's right for a people.

A segment of people who are rather small and really don't have as much of political clout, mind you.

Trump, on the other hand, claimed to be for LGBTQ and... well...

-the Trump administration swiftly froze a series of LGBT-friendly rules, including proposed new regulations to further ban discrimination in Medicare and Medicaid. A regulation that would have allowed transgender HHS staff more protections when using the department's bathrooms and other facilities also was ignored.

-The Trump administration also reinterpreted the ACA's Section 1557 anti-discrimination mandate, with the White House declining to fight a court battle to enforce it and signaling that it would roll back the rule. The health agency's new Conscience and Religious Freedom Division, which POLITICO first reported last month, is expected to offer greater protections for health care workers who do not wish to treat LGBT patients.

-... multiple agencies have pursued policy reversals related to LGBT priorities. Under Attorney General Jeff Sessions, the Justice Department suggested that federal law doesn't ban sex discrimination in the workplace for transgender employees, a turnaround from the Obama administration. The Department of Education this month said that it would no longer investigate transgender students' complaints about access to bathrooms.

-We all know about the Transgender Military Ban.

His first year was horrible for LGBTQ. There's no two ways about it.

You have a nice video. It's a blight on Obama, no two ways about it. But the record still stands that even though he said such a dumb ass thing, he actually came through legally for the LGBTQ community. Trump actively said the right things and is publicly removing their rights that straights enjoy.

We can play "He Said This" all day and get us nowhere. The game that truly matters is "Who did what". And in that case, there's no comparing what Obama did for LGBTQ rights compared to any other president. And that goes ten fold for the current one who's actively trying to undo what Obama did.

hanselthecaretaker:
Not sure if this been posted yet, what to think really of it as they?re obviously baiting, but it does kinda call out Gillete on their more hidden motives.

I hope you are joking in taking anything said in that parody seriously.

As ObsidianJones Already covered here:
https://v1.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/528.1056588-New-Gillette-commercial-not-an-indictment-on-manhood?page=5#24286945

THIS is what they were saying, not some silly parody. The ad literally had a clip of Sexual assault victim Terry Crews.

https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Wellness/gillette-ad-urge-men-rid-toxic-masculinity-metoo/story?id=60386387

Was the Rock claiming to hate American men because he spoke out against Toxic masculinity?
https://me.askmen.com/health-and-sports-news/1104302/article/the-rock-talks-mental-health-and-toxic-masculinity

Is Dwayne Johnson telling everyone to vote Democrat? He was a registered Republican but is now an Independent, not a Democrat.

Hell even the term Toxic Masculinity was coined by a man, Shepherd Bliss, trying to help men, not attack them during an early men's movement. Silly parodies playing on people's ignorance are not what the ad was about. Far from it, it just takes people willing to take the time to actually understand what they were looking at there to figure it out.

It is honestly a bit comical that some think " toxic masculinity" is against men, or some sort of feminist creation, when in fact, it was created by men to help men and further men's causes. Since when were sexual abuse and violence partisan issues?

ObsidianJones:

Gorfias:
Obama is a political animal. He vacillated as he felt he needed to. EDIT: Sorry, copied wrong link... here's another.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpXjtzOVZnU

On the other hand, Trump: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/23/us/politics/donald-trump-gay-rights.html

I think Trump has no center. He'd happily make money off of gay marriage, or off of those opposed to it. Hate takes an actual point of view which I do not think Trump posses about virtually anything.

I'm so glad you pointed this out.

I'm going to share this with everyone I can.

Because it shows how Good of a President Obama was.

If he did believe that before and doesn't now, if that's how he truly thinks, or he said it just to get into office, I say it makes no difference. Because he did something about it. He gave LGBTQ rights they have never seen before. Agency they never seen before. And if he truly ever or still felt that way when he empowered LGBTQ civil rights... More the better. Because (if true) he put his personal beliefs aside to do what's right for a people.

A segment of people who are rather small and really don't have as much of political clout, mind you.

Trump, on the other hand, claimed to be for LGBTQ and... well...

-the Trump administration swiftly froze a series of LGBT-friendly rules, including proposed new regulations to further ban discrimination in Medicare and Medicaid. A regulation that would have allowed transgender HHS staff more protections when using the department's bathrooms and other facilities also was ignored.

-The Trump administration also reinterpreted the ACA's Section 1557 anti-discrimination mandate, with the White House declining to fight a court battle to enforce it and signaling that it would roll back the rule. The health agency's new Conscience and Religious Freedom Division, which POLITICO first reported last month, is expected to offer greater protections for health care workers who do not wish to treat LGBT patients.

-... multiple agencies have pursued policy reversals related to LGBT priorities. Under Attorney General Jeff Sessions, the Justice Department suggested that federal law doesn't ban sex discrimination in the workplace for transgender employees, a turnaround from the Obama administration. The Department of Education this month said that it would no longer investigate transgender students' complaints about access to bathrooms.

-We all know about the Transgender Military Ban.

His first year was horrible for LGBTQ. There's no two ways about it.

You have a nice video. It's a blight on Obama, no two ways about it. But the record still stands that even though he said such a dumb ass thing, he actually came through legally for the LGBTQ community. Trump actively said the right things and is publicly removing their rights that straights enjoy.

We can play "He Said This" all day and get us nowhere. The game that truly matters is "Who did what". And in that case, there's no comparing what Obama did for LGBTQ rights compared to any other president. And that goes ten fold for the current one who's actively trying to undo what Obama did.

There are plenty of reasons political scientists have Obama in the top ten of best presidents list and Trump in the last.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/02/19/opinion/how-does-trump-stack-up-against-the-best-and-worst-presidents.html
https://www.businessinsider.com/greatest-us-presidents-ranked-by-political-scientists-2018-2#5-thomas-jefferson-40

Saelune:
Trump ran on building a wall because he is a racist.

He kicked trans people out of the military cause he hates LGBT people.

He rapes women cause he is a chauvinistic scumbag.

Trump is only terrible. There is LITERALLY no redeeming qualities to Trump AT ALL.

He doesn't drink.

tstorm823:

Saelune:
Trump ran on building a wall because he is a racist.

He kicked trans people out of the military cause he hates LGBT people.

He rapes women cause he is a chauvinistic scumbag.

Trump is only terrible. There is LITERALLY no redeeming qualities to Trump AT ALL.

He doesn't drink.

That is supposed to be a redeeming quality? I will take a person who drinks every day and does good things than a guy who doesn't drink and does bad things. Hell I could go to the local pubs and find 100 people who would make better choices than he does and would do a better job as President.

ObsidianJones:
snip.

Great, well thought out post. Given that he came out for bathroom selection for Trans during the campaign when he didn't need to do so, I don't think he has strong feelings about it one way or another. Trying to figure out the military ban. Again, hate requires an actual point of view. I'm back to thinking about money. Maybe he sees being trans as having a pre-existing condition that will cost more money than a non-trans in our military. Ooops, how did this become about Trump?

Maybe last thing I write about this ad and forum: I do think this forum unusual. One goes to politicalforum.com for instance... much more diverse opinions there. Still, good things to learn here. I'll hate it if this goes.

Here Comes Tomorrow:
I think we should all acknowledge that no one who posts on a video game forum knows how to interact with another actual human properly.

I know the mechanics of interacting with people properly. It's just that I have PTSD steeped in 33 years of people trying to hurt or murder me and have developed an aversion to doing so and roadblocks in the form of stress triggers that make it further difficult.

I think something we probably should acknowledge is that the distance of social media and websites makes it easier to post combative shit, even under your own name (as my family on Facebook demonstrates). I don't think this is gaming specific, or it wouldn't be such a dumpster fire under every Yahoo news article and under most YouTube videos.

We've broadened our communication scope by removing many barriers, and social ones were among the first to go.

I've seen these conversations going on elsewhere, and to be honest, it's probably more civil on this video game forum than on social media, where the normal folks get involved.

CaitSeith:
But I have played games about it!

I ran complicated simulations. In 99.325% of scenarios, someone ended up on fire. Conclusion: I should not be allowed to perform social experiments.

Lil devils x:

tstorm823:

He doesn't drink.

That is supposed to be a redeeming quality? I will take a person who drinks every day and does good things than a guy who doesn't drink and does bad things. Hell I could go to the local pubs and find 100 people who would make better choices than he does and would do a better job as President.

In case you didn't follow that link, it's a clip of him saying his only redeeming quality is that he doesn't drink, and if he did drink he'd be an even worse person, "the world's worst." I thought it was funny how well that lined up with Saelune's assessment of Trump.

tstorm823:

Saelune:
Trump ran on building a wall because he is a racist.

He kicked trans people out of the military cause he hates LGBT people.

He rapes women cause he is a chauvinistic scumbag.

Trump is only terrible. There is LITERALLY no redeeming qualities to Trump AT ALL.

He doesn't drink.

Being scared to touch alcohol because your brother drank himself to death isn't a positive quality.

Gorfias:
Maybe he sees being trans as having a pre-existing condition that will cost more money than a non-trans in our military. Ooops, how did this become about Trump?

If only there were some studies or statistics about the impact on the military that had been done before Trump made that claim.

tstorm823:

Saelune:
Trump ran on building a wall because he is a racist.

He kicked trans people out of the military cause he hates LGBT people.

He rapes women cause he is a chauvinistic scumbag.

Trump is only terrible. There is LITERALLY no redeeming qualities to Trump AT ALL.

He doesn't drink.

Whoopdie-doo. I don't drink. I don't see people lining up to vote me to be President.

Gorfias:

Saelune:

Gorfias:

Trump is the first person to run for President EDIT and win, endorsing gay marriage. He's dragging the party, kicking and screaming into a more tolerant position. He's trying, against a bi-partisan elite, take us out of Syria, and illegal presence. And if you voted Hillary, you were supporting that war.

NO HE DID FUCKING NOT! Do not for one second dare to push such an outrageous lie! Trump HATES LGBT people, HATES HATES HATES US!

Only 1 President has ever been pro-LGBT, and that was Obama.

Trump can rot in Hell.

Obama is a political animal. He vacillated as he felt he needed to. EDIT: Sorry, copied wrong link... here's another.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpXjtzOVZnU

On the other hand, Trump: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/23/us/politics/donald-trump-gay-rights.html

I think Trump has no center. He'd happily make money off of gay marriage, or off of those opposed to it. Hate takes an actual point of view which I do not think Trump posses about virtually anything.

hanselthecaretaker:
Not sure if this been posted yet, what to think really of it as they?re obviously baiting, but it does kinda call out Gillete on their more hidden motives.

Crazy good clip! Thanks for sharing.

Trump's actions as President have been anti-LGBT. Obama's Actions as President have been pro-LGBT.

Stop pushing such nonsense.

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