Now I really want to know, what exactly is going on within the US-Mexico border?

 Pages 1 2 NEXT
 

Because one of the things I noticed about Modern American politics for years is the never ending discussion and motions on Illegal Immigration of Mexicans into the United States, and apparently this is one of the biggest contributors to rise in crime in the States via Drug related crime, Gangs, Rapes, and what have you.

It is because of this is why there is such a militarized border between Mexico and the United States that I think you won't see such a thing between United States and Canada. And this has been happening long before Trump I assume? And has the methods of policing the border have been heavily criticized even before Trump suggested a Wall to be built.

So what I want to know is this, what is really happening in the Border? And I also want to know what is the Mexican Government's stake on this because I often wonder all this militarization and policing of the Border and how is it that there not been any violations of international treaties that what the US is doing is somehow not considered in Act of War on Mexico?

In the end all I know is illegal immigration and border policing has been an old American Political Issue the same as Health Care and Jobs.

I liked this piece:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOOBlcOIcLs

Our porous Southern Border is hurting the US, but surprisingly, it is hurting Mexico too. It is a pressure valve that is part of an explanation of why Mexico is not having the radical reforms it desperately needs.

There is no reason outside a broken government for Mexico to be a rat hole. It is beautiful there, lots of resources and people willing to work.

Personally? They become a free and wealthy nation? I might support an end to a border if that were to happen.

Gorfias:
snip

Outdated.

Mexico is having their own radical government shift right now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZZd1Cx07Y0

One of the hardest parts of understanding the border problem between Mexico and the US is that there isn't a problem, there are several problems. Everything will get bundled together as "illegal border crossings", but there are a lot of different reasons to want to cross the border, and they don't all have the same solutions.

Economic migration: a lot of people from south of the US want to get into the US for economic prospects. This is not inherently bad. But because it can be difficult to get into the US through the proper channels or have a prohibitive wait time associated with it, many people have chosen to try and just jump the border and not get caught. The reason this is a problem is that these people aren't employable legally but people employ them anyway, knowing that they will take criminally low wages under the table, which puts downward pressure on the wages of the poor in America while the rich benefit criminally from the cheap labor. This is the "they took our jobs" problem, but in reality, that problem mostly ended with the recession. The rate of illegal economic migration has plummeted since it was the major issue, between increased border security efforts and lessened incentives to make that gambit.

Criminals on the run: this is the least pressing issue by the frequency of occurrences, but possibly the most serious, and it is in no way a one-directional problem. The trope of criminals fleeing the country is not baseless, and thousands of criminals all over the world have fled the country pursuing them in attempts to avoid justice for their crimes. I don't think the US is exceptionally problematic in this way, but the US-Mexico border is likely the most famously porous border on the planet, and certain political elements in the US in an attempt to foil hard-line immigration stances have in more recent decades been permissive of people anonymously disappearing into the country. When a city declares that it won't let the federal government deport even criminals, that's an active invitation for more criminals hide from the law in those cities. But they think it's justified cause they want to protect...

Asylum seekers: this is the rising problem at the border taking the place of economic migration. These are people who want to get themselves to US soil and turn themselves in. It should be noted that the people in any of these classification, but particularly this one, are not necessarily coming from Mexico. They are travelling through Mexico from less stable countries to get to the US. That's not a problem really, the US takes in large numbers of immigrants and especially asylum seekers, and at least before the Trump administration started, the US was resettling more refugees in America than the rest of the planet combined. That's not to say all the refugees are in America, they're mostly in the nations that border the humanitarian crises that caused them, but as far as permanent resettlement, the US is the #1 destination by a good margin, with only Australia and Canada within the same factor of 10. But we've got backlogs at the border, we can't process people coming for asylum as fast as they arrive given current resources, and the way the rules are right now, people likely are safer and have a better chance at having their asylum claim granted if they cross illegally and get picked up by border patrol than if they wait at the ports of entry. This has led to serious problems, because if people wanting asylum are picked up sneaking through the desert with their children, they a) might die doing that, and b) might be child sex traffickers. And when they detain these people and need to process them just like people at ports of entry, they're trapped between separating children from their families or locking the kids in with potential child sex traffickers. The status quo here is just not acceptable.

Smuggling: people in America have guns and want drugs. People in Mexico have drugs and want guns. The porous border is letting these things cross back and forth. It is, of course, reasonable to blame the Mexican government for allowing drug cartels to exist in Mexico the way they do, but it's also reasonable to blame America for allowing them to thrive. We provide the guns and money that give them the power to break more of our laws, this is the most important thing that needs to stop. There are criminal elements that have the power they do by taking advantage of the shortcomings of both nations, and plugging their transport between the two would go a long way to eliminating them entirely. This is what you want a wall and patrol to prevent. When people go "a wall is stupid, people will just climb it with a ladder" they miss that these people are crossing with shipments of illegal goods. A barrier and a border patrol prevents them from crossing away from the actual border crossings, and the implementation of barriers in the places we have them has proven to push smugglers to the border crossings. We do need better detection at the crossings now, but one step at a time, a wall means we know where it's coming through.

With all of that, here's some things you don't seem to have right: the problem with "illegal immigration" is a problem of rhetoric, the terminology doesn't adequately cover all the issues at the border. None of these things contribute to the "rise in crime" in America because there isn't a rise in crime, crime is consistently falling even with all these things. But people who cross illegally can contribute to crime, and opinions on that are usually based on whether the person who holds the opinion views crime as a statistic or views crime as "one is too many". You won't see the same thing between the US and Canada because they are more similar countries, and Canada doesn't have a gradient of war and poverty extending from its southern border; central america has some big problems that transition up through Mexico, where Canada connects to only one country and it's a wealthier country. It's not a war on Mexico because Mexico the nation isn't what we're trying to stop, and if the US could stop the drug smuggling, improve our asylum system, and make sure everyone working in America is doing so legally, Mexico would stand a lot to gain from it.

Brown people are scary, and while most of the problems being cited are neither immigrant-specific nor immigrant-majority issues, a scapegoat works best if you don't like the people involved.

Something Amyss:
Brown people are scary, and while most of the problems being cited are neither immigrant-specific nor immigrant-majority issues, a scapegoat works best if you don't like the people involved.

It doesn't matter if they're immigrant specific or immigrant majority problems. If there are problems, we should be trying to stop them. If you think the effort and resources dedicated to border security are disproportional to the amount we spend on policing and criminal justice inside the US, I welcome you to look into those numbers.

tstorm823:

Something Amyss:
Brown people are scary, and while most of the problems being cited are neither immigrant-specific nor immigrant-majority issues, a scapegoat works best if you don't like the people involved.

It doesn't matter if they're immigrant specific or immigrant majority problems. If there are problems, we should be trying to stop them. If you think the effort and resources dedicated to border security are disproportional to the amount we spend on policing and criminal justice inside the US, I welcome you to look into those numbers.

Honestly, we should just abolish all borders and abolish the police. Spend no money on either of them.

Samtemdo8:

what is really happening in the Border?

Not nearly as much actually. People crossing the border illegally are more likely to die from the hazards of the desert than the guard patrol. It's when the patrol kill or let the immigrants die on their custody that people get upset; because their duty is to arrest and send the immigrants back, not to execute them. The border itself isn't the main problem; the problem comes from what happens afterwards.

Samtemdo8:

And I also want to know what is the Mexican Government's stake on this because I often wonder all this militarization and policing of the Border?

The government kinda knows illegal immigration is their own fault, but for them it's merely a symptom of much bigger national issues (mainly poverty, drug cartels and corruption). Mexico is too politically and economically tied to the US to usually consider whatever it's happening within the latter's side of the border an issue worth immediate action (as long human rights aren't violated).

As a side note, entering illegally to Mexico isn't a crime; but it still is a required procedure before any other paperwork can be done (including returning to the US).

Samtemdo8:

and how is it that there not been any violations of international treaties that what the US is doing is somehow not considered in Act of War on Mexico?

Mexico is fully aware that this militarization isn't a threat of war, but an inner political affair (as it always has been for decades). Mexico isn't exactly a warmongering nation, so their government is not looking for excuses to start wars with others (not to mention, they already have experience on losing a war against the US).

tstorm823:

It doesn't matter if they're immigrant specific or immigrant majority problems.

It does when you blame the problem on immigrants.

You know, the exact fucking point.

CaitSeith:

Gorfias:
snip

Outdated.

Mexico is having their own radical government shift right now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZZd1Cx07Y0

Says he's been opening new schools. My question is, will they run under the same conditions as existing schools? Because last I heard, if you have a position in existing schools, you have the right to pass it down to other family. Demosclerosis. And they have monopolies down there. 1 individual owns all cellphone providers?

I wish the guy success.

BreakfastMan:

Honestly, we should just abolish all borders and abolish the police. Spend no money on either of them.

And then we can all live under violent cartel rule! Upgrade!

Something Amyss:

It does when you blame the problem on immigrants.

You know, the exact fucking point.

You find me where someone, preferably Trump, is blaming immigrants for something that isn't the fault of immigrants. Fire away.

tstorm823:

BreakfastMan:

Honestly, we should just abolish all borders and abolish the police. Spend no money on either of them.

And then we can all live under violent cartel rule! Upgrade!

Something Amyss:

It does when you blame the problem on immigrants.

You know, the exact fucking point.

You find me where someone, preferably Trump, is blaming immigrants for something that isn't the fault of immigrants. Fire away.

One controversy is, what does immigration do to wages? Increase supply with steady demand = lower equilibrium price. Pro Immigration types note that demand will not stay steady. It will increase, causing no relative decline in wages.

Million years ago I read that immigrants take some $400 billion from the poorest Americans. $450 Billion goes to the wealthiest Americans. So even back then you have a $50 Billion plus from them. Distribution is a key problem here. Who the wealth goes to..

tstorm823:
You find me where someone, preferably Trump, is blaming immigrants for something that isn't the fault of immigrants. Fire away.

Why preferably Trump? I certainly wasn't talking about Trump. Why are you limiting the playing field? Why did you ignore the point and stump until I refused to let you goalpost shift this time?

"Working-class Americans are left to pay the price for mass illegal migration," Trump declared. "Reduced jobs, lower wages, overburdened schools and hospitals, increased crime, and a depleted social safety net."

"Year after year," Trump said, "countless Americans are murdered by criminal illegal aliens."

I mean, this one could technically be true, in the sense I don't believe Trump could count to five, so any contable number might seem incalculable to him. However, it is a claim made without basis.

It's almost like these claims aren't true and some of them have been debunked for decades.

Whoops.

I await your backpedaling on examples I only had to go to last night's state of the union to find.

tstorm823:

BreakfastMan:

Honestly, we should just abolish all borders and abolish the police. Spend no money on either of them.

And then we can all live under violent cartel rule! Upgrade!

If we get rid of the police and borders, there won't be cartels anymore, because crime won't have to organize to smuggle drugs and get around the police.

Something Amyss:

Why preferably Trump? I certainly wasn't talking about Trump. Why are you limiting the playing field? Why did you ignore the point and stump until I refused to let you goalpost shift this time?

Because Trump is fun, and Trump is public, and I know if I don't try and narrow the playing field, you'll easily find some nutcase who's actually anti-immigration, and those nutcases aren't important. But like, I don't understand your perception of goalpost shifting. I did move goalposts this time, that's exactly what saying "preferably Trump" did, and you certainly would be justified to ignore that request, but I appreciate you playing along.

?Working-class Americans are left to pay the price for mass illegal migration,? Trump declared. ?Reduced jobs, lower wages, overburdened schools and hospitals, increased crime, and a depleted social safety net.?

?Year after year,? Trump said, ?countless Americans are murdered by criminal illegal aliens.?

I mean, this one could technically be true, in the sense I don't believe Trump could count to five, so any contable number might seem incalculable to him. However, it is a claim made without basis.

It's almost like these claims aren't true and some of them have been debunked for decades.

Whoops.

I await your backpedaling on examples I only had to go to last night's state of the union to find.

No, those are true. If you want to dig through NPR's fact check of the state of the union, you'll find:

A respected 2016 report by the National Academy of Sciences showed that ?immigration, legal and illegal, does create an economic benefit for some native-born Americans, but this benefit is generated by reducing the wages of native-born workers, often the least-educated and poorest. ? By lowering wages, immigration provides higher incomes and profits for businesses. The NAS also finds that immigrants (legal and illegal) at the present time create a net fiscal deficit (taxes paid minus services used) that is as large as or larger than the economic benefit.?

and "countless" is a stupid adjective to use when he's about to list a number, but to deny there are criminals among the immigrant population that have murdered assuredly thousands of people in America is silly (though only Texas records immigration status in crimes, there have been hundreds of murder convictions of illegal immigrants just in Texas just in this decade). There are arguments that immigrants are less criminal, but none of those murders would have happened if the perpetrator hadn't been in the country.

BreakfastMan:

If we get rid of the police and borders, there won't be cartels anymore, because crime won't have to organize to smuggle drugs and get around the police.

I guess we wouldn't call them cartels anymore, we'd just call them militias. You don't need police for violent people to benefit from organization. Pirates have crews, bandits have gangs, it doesn't take a drug war for violent people to organize.

"Those are true because I cherry picked one and linked to a counter and doesn't even expressly address illegal immigration, which is what Trump was talking about."

Come on, dude. Even you can do better than that.

For context:

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/05/trump-state-of-the-union-legal-immigration-1148629

"Legal immigrants enrich our nation and strengthen our society in countless ways," the president said. "I want people to come into our country in the largest numbers ever, but they have to come in legally."

Uhhh...whoops again.

tstorm823:

BreakfastMan:

If we get rid of the police and borders, there won't be cartels anymore, because crime won't have to organize to smuggle drugs and get around the police.

I guess we wouldn't call them cartels anymore, we'd just call them militias. You don't need police for violent people to benefit from organization. Pirates have crews, bandits have gangs, it doesn't take a drug war for violent people to organize.

Yeah, but organizations have a goal. What would be the goal of the cartels then, with no police and no borders? No drugs to smuggle, no laws you have to get around.

Something Amyss:
"Those are true because I cherry picked one and linked to a counter and doesn't even expressly address illegal immigration, which is what Trump was talking about."

Come on, dude. Even you can do better than that.

But, like, uh, what? You quoted him from the state of the union, I pulled up the fact check of that state of the union, and quoted NPR's response to that exact line from the state of the union. I cannot be more direct and transparent than that.

Something Amyss:
For context:

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/05/trump-state-of-the-union-legal-immigration-1148629

"Legal immigrants enrich our nation and strengthen our society in countless ways," the president said. "I want people to come into our country in the largest numbers ever, but they have to come in legally."

Uhhh...whoops again.

I know Trump is pro-immigration. I know the Republicans are pro-immigration. This only illustrates the distinction being made between immigrants and criminals. If you want to support your claim that controversy at the border is because they want a political scapegoat and "brown people are scary", you need to find a case of scapegoating. I don't think there is a prominent political figure that would claim that border security will fix poverty or end crime in the US, but border security can fix that parts of those problems that are contributed to by people entering the country illegally.

BreakfastMan:

Yeah, but organizations have a goal. What would be the goal of the cartels then, with no police and no borders? No drugs to smuggle, no laws you have to get around.

Kill, rape, steal? You know, the other crimes they commit. You know there's a whole thing down their where cartels are siphoning oil out of pipelines? Would lack of police and drug laws stop that?

tstorm823:

BreakfastMan:

Yeah, but organizations have a goal. What would be the goal of the cartels then, with no police and no borders? No drugs to smuggle, no laws you have to get around.

Kill, rape, steal? You know, the other crimes they commit.

They kill in service of smuggling drugs.

You know there's a whole thing down their where cartels are siphoning oil out of pipelines? Would lack of police and drug laws stop that?

I mean, we shouldn't be gathering oil in the first place, really. But that is a separate issue.

The problems that asylum seekers and "illegal" immigrants cause are honestly overblown to insane degrees. The "drugs pouring over the border" are not causing the drug crisis here in the States, that's completely a self grown problem. Not only that but those drugs won't be stopped by a fucking wall because they're often smuggled in through the proper ports of entry. The "completely preventable murders" is a load of shit too. Any murder using their argument could be, in theory, preventable. And yet they only apply that argument to this...weird huh? This whole situation is fucked and their solution to it is moronic but it gets their insane base all riled up and out to vote. What's needed it genuine immigration reform. Right now applying and going through the proper channels is an absolute clusterfuck that takes an insane amount of time. The whole system is backed up and it was thrown to the dogs by design because, fundamentally, they don't really want legal immigration either.

tstorm823:

I know Trump is pro-immigration. I know the Republicans are pro-immigration. This only illustrates the distinction being made between immigrants and criminals. If you want to support your claim that controversy at the border is because they want a political scapegoat and "brown people are scary", you need to find a case of scapegoating. I don't think there is a prominent political figure that would claim that border security will fix poverty or end crime in the US, but border security can fix that parts of those problems that are contributed to by people entering the country illegally.

Only they're not. They're only pro-immigration for specific countries. They literally were trying to limit legal immigration earlier in the administration. It's what Jeff Sessions was building towards before Trump fired him for unrelated reasons. There are people still in the administration who have stated they want to limit legal immigration and have been pushing for that. You're taking them at their word and not looking at their actions. And "border security" isn't going to fix a damn thing. Actual immigration reform is what's needed, and the Republicans would rather lock down the border and aim a bunch of guns at Mexico, while the Democrats don't have the spine to actually really do anything other than say "yeah, something something border security".

Nedoras:
The problems that asylum seekers and "illegal" immigrants cause are honestly overblown to insane degrees. The "drugs pouring over the border" are not causing the drug crisis here in the States, that's completely a self grown problem. Not only that but those drugs won't be stopped by a fucking wall because they're often smuggled in through the proper ports of entry. The "completely preventable murders" is a load of shit too. Any murder using their argument could be, in theory, preventable. And yet they only apply that argument to this...weird huh? This whole situation is fucked and their solution to it is moronic but it gets their insane base all riled up and out to vote. What's needed it genuine immigration reform. Right now applying and going through the proper channels is an absolute clusterfuck that takes an insane amount of time. The whole system is backed up and it was thrown to the dogs by design because, fundamentally, they don't really want legal immigration either.

Only they're not. They're only pro-immigration for specific countries. They literally were trying to limit legal immigration earlier in the administration. It's what Jeff Sessions was building towards before Trump fired him for unrelated reasons. There are people still in the administration who have stated they want to limit legal immigration and have been pushing for that. You're taking them at their word and not looking at their actions. And "border security" isn't going to fix a damn thing. Actual immigration reform is what's needed, and the Republicans would rather lock down the border and aim a bunch of guns at Mexico, while the Democrats don't have the spine to actually really do anything other than say "yeah, something something border security".

Trying to limit? It already is limited. There's a nonsense quota system, and most of the quotas are eaten up by family unification, creating a perverse incentive to push a single family member through to draw the rest across. There are limits by nation, and limits by employment goals, it's completely ridiculous. The President of the United States, no matter which you pick, has for the entirety of this century so far wanted to reform our immigration system. This isn't a partisan problem, this is congress as a whole unwilling to act. Republicans don't agree internally on what laws to pass, and Democrats are increasingly ok with "why change the laws when we can just not enforce them?"

I am all for real immigration reform. Vote for me, 2028, I'll put it at the top of the list cause they probably won't fix anything in the next decade. But immigration reform won't do much to stop the people they intend to point guns at other than get innocents out of the way. They smuggle things through ports of entry because it's easier than going around, because going around runs into walls and border patrol, the things Republicans push for. It's not a contradiction.

I'll tell you what's there. The American dream! The dream still exists, obedient citizens. It wasn't a lie, we swear! Goddamn, It still exist! Except, well, now it's being stolen from you and smuggled over the border to feed Mexican drug children who will grow up to be dirty drug liberal voters, and we can't have that, can we? These people of unknown qualities due to the nature of their marginally different skin colour and language in which we are unable to project our own humanity onto cannot be trusted to suck from the teets of our wholesome aryan dream. It's ours, not theirs! We earned it through honest violence, corruption and slavery, it's ours, they can't have it! It's not a lie...they've stolen it, that's why it's not here for you yet. But it is for me cos I earned it, unlike them or you, but mostly them, you've just gotta keep working very hard, like to the bone without full health coverage hard, and unconditionally believing us when we say it totally exists. You can't trust them. Or filthy liberals. But you can trust us. You can trust the ameriiiiiican dreaaaam! It's...so beautiful. *Dabs tears away with AR-15*

Neurotic Void Melody:
I'll tell you what's there. The American dream! The dream still exists, obedient citizens. It wasn't a lie, we swear! Goddamn, It still exist! Except, well, now it's being stolen from you and smuggled over the border to feed Mexican drug children who will grow up to be dirty drug liberal voters, and we can't have that, can we? These people of unknown qualities due to the nature of their marginally different skin colour and language in which we are unable to project our own humanity onto cannot be trusted to suck from the teets of our wholesome aryan dream. It's ours, not theirs! We earned it through honest violence, corruption and slavery, it's ours, they can't have it! It's not a lie...they've stolen it, that's why it's not here for you yet. But it is for me cos I earned it, unlike them or you, but mostly them, you've just gotta keep working very hard, like to the bone without full health coverage hard, and unconditionally believing us when we say it totally exists. You can't trust them. Or filthy liberals. But you can trust us. You can trust the ameriiiiiican dreaaaam! It's...so beautiful. *Dabs tears away with AR-15*

I'm pretty sure I can copy-paste this to /pol/ and no one there would spot the joke.

tstorm823:

Nedoras:
The problems that asylum seekers and "illegal" immigrants cause are honestly overblown to insane degrees. The "drugs pouring over the border" are not causing the drug crisis here in the States, that's completely a self grown problem. Not only that but those drugs won't be stopped by a fucking wall because they're often smuggled in through the proper ports of entry. The "completely preventable murders" is a load of shit too. Any murder using their argument could be, in theory, preventable. And yet they only apply that argument to this...weird huh? This whole situation is fucked and their solution to it is moronic but it gets their insane base all riled up and out to vote. What's needed it genuine immigration reform. Right now applying and going through the proper channels is an absolute clusterfuck that takes an insane amount of time. The whole system is backed up and it was thrown to the dogs by design because, fundamentally, they don't really want legal immigration either.

Only they're not. They're only pro-immigration for specific countries. They literally were trying to limit legal immigration earlier in the administration. It's what Jeff Sessions was building towards before Trump fired him for unrelated reasons. There are people still in the administration who have stated they want to limit legal immigration and have been pushing for that. You're taking them at their word and not looking at their actions. And "border security" isn't going to fix a damn thing. Actual immigration reform is what's needed, and the Republicans would rather lock down the border and aim a bunch of guns at Mexico, while the Democrats don't have the spine to actually really do anything other than say "yeah, something something border security".

Trying to limit? It already is limited. There's a nonsense quota system, and most of the quotas are eaten up by family unification, creating a perverse incentive to push a single family member through to draw the rest across. There are limits by nation, and limits by employment goals, it's completely ridiculous. The President of the United States, no matter which you pick, has for the entirety of this century so far wanted to reform our immigration system. This isn't a partisan problem, this is congress as a whole unwilling to act. Republicans don't agree internally on what laws to pass, and Democrats are increasingly ok with "why change the laws when we can just not enforce them?"

I am all for real immigration reform. Vote for me, 2028, I'll put it at the top of the list cause they probably won't fix anything in the next decade. But immigration reform won't do much to stop the people they intend to point guns at other than get innocents out of the way. They smuggle things through ports of entry because it's easier than going around, because going around runs into walls and border patrol, the things Republicans push for. It's not a contradiction.

When I say trying to limit, I mean that they actively want it to stop. Full-blown shutdown of legal immigration, for an unspecified amount of time. I know there's already limits in place, and that the whole thing is a bloated clusterfuck that's meant to be overly complicated. But they want to just shut it all down instead of fixing it, or at least some people in the administration and a few in Congress do. The others, yeah, they can't agree on anything because no one is even remotely proposing a proper solution. Although I would argue that the Democratic parties' stance isn't to ignore laws, but rather to be vague and not do anything at all. They keep saying "we support border security" but that's it.

My point is that the innocents do need to be put out of the way. That's the actual "crisis at the border". And the majority of those guns will be pointed at innocents. That's the point. What the administration is pushing for is actively going against what they say it will do. They don't care about the drugs or crime, they just want people to stop coming here. You said it yourself, drugs will still come in at points of entry like they always did. The measures that they want to put in place will pretty much only stop innocents. Hell, it's why Sessions changed it to where fleeing domestic abuse and gang violence is not a suitable excuse for asylum. They just don't want them here, none of them.

tstorm823:

I know Trump is pro-immigration.

And yet you posted a quote that didn't deal with illegal immigration specifically. If you know that Trump is pro-immigration, then you knew that was a dishonest response.

Thanks for clearing that up, I guess there's nothing further to be said.

Something Amyss:

Thanks for clearing that up, I guess there's nothing further to be said.

You're still welcome to elaborate on the post you made coming into this thread. As a reminder:

"Brown people are scary, and while most of the problems being cited are neither immigrant-specific nor immigrant-majority issues, a scapegoat works best if you don't like the people involved."

What are these non-immigrant problems that "brown people" are being used as scapegoats for?

Gorfias:

CaitSeith:

Gorfias:
snip

Outdated.

Mexico is having their own radical government shift right now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZZd1Cx07Y0

Says he's been opening new schools. My question is, will they run under the same conditions as existing schools? Because last I heard, if you have a position in existing schools, you have the right to pass it down to other family. Demosclerosis. And they have monopolies down there. 1 individual owns all cellphone providers?

I wish the guy success.

I was more xoncern with trying to work with drug cartels.

But the last president was way worse than Trump on humanitarian issues and far more of a strongman and that didnt defeat the cartels. So I don't know what the Mexican government can do.

BreakfastMan:

tstorm823:

BreakfastMan:

If we get rid of the police and borders, there won't be cartels anymore, because crime won't have to organize to smuggle drugs and get around the police.

I guess we wouldn't call them cartels anymore, we'd just call them militias. You don't need police for violent people to benefit from organization. Pirates have crews, bandits have gangs, it doesn't take a drug war for violent people to organize.

Yeah, but organizations have a goal. What would be the goal of the cartels then, with no police and no borders? No drugs to smuggle, no laws you have to get around.

I know you are trolling, but whatever. Market capitalization and monopolization. Cartel-like organizations would form to make sure they have dominance over the product/means of production/means of delivery.

BreakfastMan:

tstorm823:

BreakfastMan:

If we get rid of the police and borders, there won't be cartels anymore, because crime won't have to organize to smuggle drugs and get around the police.

I guess we wouldn't call them cartels anymore, we'd just call them militias. You don't need police for violent people to benefit from organization. Pirates have crews, bandits have gangs, it doesn't take a drug war for violent people to organize.

Yeah, but organizations have a goal. What would be the goal of the cartels then, with no police and no borders? No drugs to smuggle, no laws you have to get around.

Cartel's goal is to make money with drug traficking. No police just means cartels wouldn't need to spend money and resources in bribing them. Nothing else would change in that regard because the demand for drugs in America would still be the same.

JamesStone:

BreakfastMan:

tstorm823:

I guess we wouldn't call them cartels anymore, we'd just call them militias. You don't need police for violent people to benefit from organization. Pirates have crews, bandits have gangs, it doesn't take a drug war for violent people to organize.

Yeah, but organizations have a goal. What would be the goal of the cartels then, with no police and no borders? No drugs to smuggle, no laws you have to get around.

I know you are trolling, but whatever. Market capitalization and monopolization. Cartel-like organizations would form to make sure they have dominance over the product/means of production/means of delivery.

Yeah, but then they are good and respectable, because they are no longer illegal organizations; they are business men.

tstorm823:
What are these non-immigrant problems that "brown people" are being used as scapegoats for?

Let's start with the easy ones of murder, rape, and drug smuggling from Trump's own speeches. Then we can move to the myriad of economic issues such as low and stagnant wages, unemployment, and declines in standards of living. Oh, we can also include the ever fun "white genocide" and "cultural destruction."

Avnger:

tstorm823:
What are these non-immigrant problems that "brown people" are being used as scapegoats for?

Let's start with the easy ones of murder, rape, and drug smuggling from Trump's own speeches. Then we can move to the myriad of economic issues such as low and stagnant wages, unemployment, and declines in standards of living. Oh, we can also include the ever fun "white genocide" and "cultural destruction."

But there are murderers, rapists, and drug smugglers crossing the border, and it's in everyone's best interest, especially legal immigrants, to stop them. And illegal immigrants taking jobs beneath minimum wage benefits the rich while putting measurable downward pressure on the wages and job prospects of poorer, less educated Americans, including legal immigrants. And illegal immigrants entering the country and sending their kids to schools overcrowds the public school system in certain places, also bad for legal immigrants. And some real criminals escape across the border from Mexico and hide inside America's sanctuary cities. These are real problems caused by a segment of people who enter America illegally that could be stopped at the border. Nobody serious is suggesting that all immigrants or even all illegal immigrants are rapists and murderers. But some of them certainly are, and if they can just sneak in undetected, that's an issue.

"White genocide" and "cultural destruction", in the way you mean, aren't real issues that reasonable people are worried about.

Why do rapists and murderers only matter when they're brown

If they're any other color we elect them to public office and give them sitcoms

undeadsuitor:
Why do rapists and murderers only matter when they're brown

If they're any other color we elect them to public office and give them sitcoms

We must have a lot of sitcoms coming down the pipeline for the tens of thousands we arrest every year.

 Pages 1 2 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here