Get Woke, Go Broke

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Silentpony:

altnameJag:

Silentpony:
No they overlook gameplay because its a game. I imagine if they had sniper Basset Hounds or Space Marines fighting in WW2 gamers would have been equally as 'this is not historically accurate stop pretending it is'
That EA had ladies and Asian men in a 'historically accurate' trailer and people objected, that does not mean those people are sexist and/or racists. In the same way if a 'realistic' game had Canadian soldiers fighting during the Persian war, people objecting are not anti-Canadian.
The game was marketed as 'This is what it was like. See the Samurai proves it' And samurai did not fight with the allied powers. So no, that is not what it was like, and its not anti-samurai to point that out.

...The historically accurate trailer where the lady with WW2 era prosthetics died in the first 12 seconds of action then came back to life to ride on a Jeep, then came back to life again to bludgeon a man to death with a cricket bat?

It was a multiplayer trailer. Showing off customization options.

I just rewatched the trailer. She doesn't die once.

Literally second 26 of this trailer. https://youtu.be/PwOfXXU_adk
Unless there are two ladies with the same hairstyles/color and prosthetic arms and the second one is riding in that Jeep.

Right before she shows back up with the cricket bat at the end of the trailer there's a "spawn on squad" message that pops up. This trailer was never about historical accuracy. It shows a (dramatized) multiplayer match with all the goofiness that shows up during multiplayer battlefield matches.

Dreiko:
This is the kind of thing where people cherrypick too much. EA's recent stock performance has been the worst in 20 years due to Battlefield 5 so that'd be one example of going broke. The failures of the Solo movie and of Ghostbusters would be others. Meanwhile, other things have been less unfortunate.

Ultimately I think it's too soon to tell whether there's any credence to this type of rhetoric.

My take on it is that in a vacuum "woke" content has an advantage because by being more inclusive it has a wider appeal base. This is the first layer, however. It does NOT account for creating a faithful hardcore fanbase of adoring fans, it's just like getting your foot through the door with more people, if your content SOLELY focuses on being woke the door will get slammed shut anyways. Too many things seem to believe that just being woke will suffice to make people like them. They make lazy work and just slap in some token minorities and call it a day. How could you not go broke that way lol.

Where the backlash occurs is not when one goes to make this "woke" media but rather when one CHANGES established series to make it woker. An example of this would be the recent Voltron reboot as well as the Sheera reboot. When you do that, you're invading the houses of people who had opened their door to someone else and you will be met with a befitting reaction for your transgression, which is encapsulated in the get woke go broke sentiment.

Just make original content like Yuuri on Ice or something, that thing won a gajillion anime awards a few years back.

Apex Legends has exactly one straight, cis, white guy in it. We've got tons of people of color, one gay guy, and a nonbinary person. It made EA's stock bounce back. The protag of Titanfall 2 was a generic white dude and Apex Legends seems to be much more popular. And Battlefield 5 seems to be more of a "failure" in that EA's investors have stupidly unrealistic expectations for revenue than it bombing. 7.3 million sales, that's what its clocked in at now. That being considered a disappointment should say more about stupid expectations than anything else.

Also, you gotta connect the dots for me on Voltron and She-ra, "going broke." Hell, I hardly recall any backlash towards Voltron when Allura became of PoC they made Shrio of Japanese descent and gay. (I more recall backlash for his fiance being stuffed in the fridge and him being paired up with an extra who was so unimportant I didn't even know his name) So...what are you talking about? Also the reaction to She-Ra has been largely positive, minus the people who are upset because they had the audacity to put the gay in a show that was already pretty fucking gay. And had the audacity to make it so that every female character didn't literally have the exact same body type because of limited modeling for the toys they were going to sell.

Frankly the type of people who get pissed off by that aren't worth keeping happy.

erttheking:

Apex Legends has exactly one straight, cis, white guy in it. We've got tons of people of color, one gay guy, and a nonbinary person. It made EA's stock bounce back. The protag of Titanfall 2 was a generic white dude and Apex Legends seems to be much more popular. And Battlefield 5 seems to be more of a "failure" in that EA's investors have stupidly unrealistic expectations for revenue than it bombing. 7.3 million sales, that's what its clocked in at now. That being considered a disappointment should say more about stupid expectations than anything else.

It's worth noting that Activision is reporting record profits and still delivered below expectations, so gaming examples are particularly hard to gauge. There will be major layoffs hitting Blizact's roster, but they ain't going broke.

Also, you gotta connect the dots for me on Voltron and She-ra, "going broke." Hell, I hardly recall any backlash towards Voltron when Allura became of PoC they made Shrio of Japanese descent and gay. (I more recall backlash for his fiance being stuffed in the fridge and him being paired up with an extra who was so unimportant I didn't even know his name) So...what are you talking about? Also the reaction to She-Ra has been largely positive, minus the people who are upset because they had the audacity to put the gay in a show that was already pretty fucking gay. And had the audacity to make it so that every female character didn't literally have the exact same body type because of limited modeling for the toys they were going to sell.

Voltron received almost no backlash and was critically acclaimed. The fact that they made on character gay, one non-white (in a show where they were all originally Japanese) and one a girl was almost incidental to that. They made a good-ish story that people liked and it worked. Dreamworks went so "broke" on this that they have like a million forms of spinoff media.

She-Ra is even more of a nothingburger. People complained about the art style and the fact that a teenage girl wasn't fuckable enough. I'm not kidding. Adora is like...15 and people were pissed she wasn't hot enough. But the more important point here? It was a show aimed at young girls, and guess who wasn't complaining about her bust size and the art style?

This was a tantrum thrown almost exclusively by 30 and 40 something men who were angry that a cartoon aimed at little girls wans't pandering enough to them.

Later, the show started getting praise for LGBT inclusivity, which is more or less so blink-and-you'll miss it the grown men throwing a fit didn't catch on.

This is possibly the worst example you can offer of "get woke, go broke" that someone could come up with. Or, as you already put it:

Frankly the type of people who get pissed off by that aren't worth keeping happy.

Basically, remember the white people upset about Black Panther? Now picture that, but with a bunch of 40 somethings losing their heads over something aimed at little girls.

She-Ra's fine, by the way. It's not the bestest show ever, and I'd put it well below Voltron, but it was fun and it got a pretty positive response from the people it was marketed to.

erttheking:

Dreiko:
This is the kind of thing where people cherrypick too much. EA's recent stock performance has been the worst in 20 years due to Battlefield 5 so that'd be one example of going broke. The failures of the Solo movie and of Ghostbusters would be others. Meanwhile, other things have been less unfortunate.

Ultimately I think it's too soon to tell whether there's any credence to this type of rhetoric.

My take on it is that in a vacuum "woke" content has an advantage because by being more inclusive it has a wider appeal base. This is the first layer, however. It does NOT account for creating a faithful hardcore fanbase of adoring fans, it's just like getting your foot through the door with more people, if your content SOLELY focuses on being woke the door will get slammed shut anyways. Too many things seem to believe that just being woke will suffice to make people like them. They make lazy work and just slap in some token minorities and call it a day. How could you not go broke that way lol.

Where the backlash occurs is not when one goes to make this "woke" media but rather when one CHANGES established series to make it woker. An example of this would be the recent Voltron reboot as well as the Sheera reboot. When you do that, you're invading the houses of people who had opened their door to someone else and you will be met with a befitting reaction for your transgression, which is encapsulated in the get woke go broke sentiment.

Just make original content like Yuuri on Ice or something, that thing won a gajillion anime awards a few years back.

Apex Legends has exactly one straight, cis, white guy in it. We've got tons of people of color, one gay guy, and a nonbinary person. It made EA's stock bounce back. The protag of Titanfall 2 was a generic white dude and Apex Legends seems to be much more popular. And Battlefield 5 seems to be more of a "failure" in that EA's investors have stupidly unrealistic expectations for revenue than it bombing. 7.3 million sales, that's what its clocked in at now. That being considered a disappointment should say more about stupid expectations than anything else.

Also, you gotta connect the dots for me on Voltron and She-ra, "going broke." Hell, I hardly recall any backlash towards Voltron when Allura became of PoC they made Shrio of Japanese descent and gay. (I more recall backlash for his fiance being stuffed in the fridge and him being paired up with an extra who was so unimportant I didn't even know his name) So...what are you talking about? Also the reaction to She-Ra has been largely positive, minus the people who are upset because they had the audacity to put the gay in a show that was already pretty fucking gay. And had the audacity to make it so that every female character didn't literally have the exact same body type because of limited modeling for the toys they were going to sell.

Frankly the type of people who get pissed off by that aren't worth keeping happy.

This topic is about going broke. Not sure what dot is there to connect. Both Sheera and especially Voltron which got cancelled failed commercially due to being dull and over-relying on representation while feeling safe in the refuge of having the option of calling their critics some type of bigot, which led them to making terribly dull, bad content. You don't need me to explain much, just contrast their performance to Yuuri and see what conclusion you reach.

I agree it's dumb to consider 7+ mil sales a failure, I also think noting how the game was on sale within a month of release and how far down its preorders were compared to last year are worthwhile data points towards it under-performing. The saying of going broke is never meant in a literal sense, however (no matter how badly one game does none of these companies will literally go broke over it, even Spirits Within only made the US side of square go broke), so I think it is fair to classify Battlefield's performance as fitting the criteria when contrasted to what its hypothetical "average" or "standard" performance would have been.

Dreiko:

erttheking:

Dreiko:
This is the kind of thing where people cherrypick too much. EA's recent stock performance has been the worst in 20 years due to Battlefield 5 so that'd be one example of going broke. The failures of the Solo movie and of Ghostbusters would be others. Meanwhile, other things have been less unfortunate.

Ultimately I think it's too soon to tell whether there's any credence to this type of rhetoric.

My take on it is that in a vacuum "woke" content has an advantage because by being more inclusive it has a wider appeal base. This is the first layer, however. It does NOT account for creating a faithful hardcore fanbase of adoring fans, it's just like getting your foot through the door with more people, if your content SOLELY focuses on being woke the door will get slammed shut anyways. Too many things seem to believe that just being woke will suffice to make people like them. They make lazy work and just slap in some token minorities and call it a day. How could you not go broke that way lol.

Where the backlash occurs is not when one goes to make this "woke" media but rather when one CHANGES established series to make it woker. An example of this would be the recent Voltron reboot as well as the Sheera reboot. When you do that, you're invading the houses of people who had opened their door to someone else and you will be met with a befitting reaction for your transgression, which is encapsulated in the get woke go broke sentiment.

Just make original content like Yuuri on Ice or something, that thing won a gajillion anime awards a few years back.

Apex Legends has exactly one straight, cis, white guy in it. We've got tons of people of color, one gay guy, and a nonbinary person. It made EA's stock bounce back. The protag of Titanfall 2 was a generic white dude and Apex Legends seems to be much more popular. And Battlefield 5 seems to be more of a "failure" in that EA's investors have stupidly unrealistic expectations for revenue than it bombing. 7.3 million sales, that's what its clocked in at now. That being considered a disappointment should say more about stupid expectations than anything else.

Also, you gotta connect the dots for me on Voltron and She-ra, "going broke." Hell, I hardly recall any backlash towards Voltron when Allura became of PoC they made Shrio of Japanese descent and gay. (I more recall backlash for his fiance being stuffed in the fridge and him being paired up with an extra who was so unimportant I didn't even know his name) So...what are you talking about? Also the reaction to She-Ra has been largely positive, minus the people who are upset because they had the audacity to put the gay in a show that was already pretty fucking gay. And had the audacity to make it so that every female character didn't literally have the exact same body type because of limited modeling for the toys they were going to sell.

Frankly the type of people who get pissed off by that aren't worth keeping happy.

This topic is about going broke. Not sure what dot is there to connect. Both Sheera and especially Voltron which got cancelled failed commercially due to being dull and over-relying on representation while feeling safe in the refuge of having the option of calling their critics some type of bigot, which led them to making terribly dull, bad content. You don't need me to explain much, just contrast their performance to Yuuri and see what conclusion you reach.

I agree it's dumb to consider 7+ mil sales a failure, I also think noting how the game was on sale within a month of release and how far down its preorders were compared to last year are worthwhile data points towards it under-performing. The saying of going broke is never meant in a literal sense, however (no matter how badly one game does none of these companies will literally go broke over it, even Spirits Within only made the US side of square go broke), so I think it is fair to classify Battlefield's performance as fitting the criteria when contrasted to what its hypothetical "average" or "standard" performance would have been.

I don't know about Sheera but Voltron was highly popular at the school my daughter goes to. I've watched it so many times with her, it's storytelling was almost as good as Avatar. But it should have finished after season 6. It was a clear ending and it was like watching Supernatual after season 5. The crazy thing is that kids don't get hung up on men having boyfriends or girls wearing pants. And where are you getting these stats on views? Netflix usually only tells you when it wants. I can only go on my anecdotal evidence

erttheking:

Apex Legends has exactly one straight, cis, white guy in it. We've got tons of people of color, one gay guy, and a nonbinary person. It made EA's stock bounce back. The protag of Titanfall 2 was a generic white dude and Apex Legends seems to be much more popular.

You're kind of on shaky ground there. You really think the reason Apex Legends is doing better than Titanfall is due to the variety of its cast's ethnicity and sexual orientation? This being a F2P, multiplayer only game, where character backstories exist outside the game itself?

I mean, maybe there's some people who played Apex and not Titanfall 2 due to the ethnicity of the protagonist (in which case, bleh), but I highly doubt that's a difference that's going to rate highly on why people might prefer one game over the other (F2P vs. P2P, tapping into the battle royale craze, Titanfall 2 was released in competition with BF1 and Infinite Warfare, etc.)

Dreiko:

This topic is about going broke. Not sure what dot is there to connect. Both Sheera and especially Voltron which got cancelled failed commercially due to being dull and over-relying on representation while feeling safe in the refuge of having the option of calling their critics some type of bigot, which led them to making terribly dull, bad content.

Okay, can you elaborate on this? I mean, Voltron ended, sure, but as far as I'm aware it wasn't "cancelled."

I've heard a lot of bad stuff about Voltron towards the later seasons, but I've never heard the complaing of "over-relying on representation" being among them. If anything, it kinda under-represented with the whole Adam 'thing.' As for She-Ra, I can comment even less on it than Voltron (of which I've only seen the first two seasons and wasn't impressed), but it's been confirmed to be getting a second season, so I'm not sure how it crashed or anything).

In all the arguing about sexism/racism/historical accuracy, you're missing a key point about BF5: it just kinda sucks in general, totally ignoring all of the above. I got a free copy around launch as a promo thing for buying an RTX2080, and having greatly enjoyed previous ones in the series (albeit I never buy them on launch anymore, $120CAD for the "complete edition" can fuck off), I tried it out in...late November or thereabouts, I think the week before Black Armory came out in Destiny 2. At which point it was basically an early-access game with a bunch of "hey look at this thing we're implementing next month" tags all over the place, even more dumbing-down of the four-class system that started off with...Bad Company(?) and a total lack of actual content aside from dozens of meaningless cosmetic bits. I mean hell, each class had something like four available weapons, even ye olde 2142 had more variety than that. And the few maps I saw were tiny, not sure if they even had vehicles, and played like a CoD game.

Oh, and you know the big cinematic intro mission where you're jumping around between characters? Yeah, about halfway into that I had a bug/scripting failure that resulted in spending 20 minutes standing around at Arhnem bridge shooting infinitely-respawning enemies because whatever trigger was supposed to continue the game failed, which is right up there with the infamous giant rotating head bug in New Vegas for terrible first impressions.

Hawki:

erttheking:

Apex Legends has exactly one straight, cis, white guy in it. We've got tons of people of color, one gay guy, and a nonbinary person. It made EA's stock bounce back. The protag of Titanfall 2 was a generic white dude and Apex Legends seems to be much more popular.

You're kind of on shaky ground there. You really think the reason Apex Legends is doing better than Titanfall is due to the variety of its cast's ethnicity and sexual orientation? This being a F2P, multiplayer only game, where character backstories exist outside the game itself?

I mean, maybe there's some people who played Apex and not Titanfall 2 due to the ethnicity of the protagonist (in which case, bleh), but I highly doubt that's a difference that's going to rate highly on why people might prefer one game over the other (F2P vs. P2P, tapping into the battle royale craze, Titanfall 2 was released in competition with BF1 and Infinite Warfare, etc.)

Uh. No. I'm responding to the idea that adding diversity or "wokeness" to a work that doesn't have a lot of it will lead to backlash and failure. Apex Legends shows that's clearly not the case.

Dreiko:

This topic is about going broke. Not sure what dot is there to connect. Both Sheera and especially Voltron which got cancelled failed commercially due to being dull and over-relying on representation while feeling safe in the refuge of having the option of calling their critics some type of bigot, which led them to making terribly dull, bad content. You don't need me to explain much, just contrast their performance to Yuuri and see what conclusion you reach.

I agree it's dumb to consider 7+ mil sales a failure, I also think noting how the game was on sale within a month of release and how far down its preorders were compared to last year are worthwhile data points towards it under-performing. The saying of going broke is never meant in a literal sense, however (no matter how badly one game does none of these companies will literally go broke over it, even Spirits Within only made the US side of square go broke), so I think it is fair to classify Battlefield's performance as fitting the criteria when contrasted to what its hypothetical "average" or "standard" performance would have been.

...What? Uh. No. Voltron didn't get canceled. It ended. Season 7 was its final season that had a pretty unambiguous ending with no room for future stories. And She-Ra is getting a second season. I don't know where you're getting all of this from. And over reliant on representation? They had one fucking gay guy who we weren't allowed to see kiss anyone until the last scene. I can count the number of times Shiro being gay was acknowledged as being a thing on one hand. Meanwhile, we have Lance hitting on everything with a skirt, so accusations of "over-relying on respresentation" is even more of a Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot moment. In fact, let's dig into this. Voltron over relied on representation. Uh. How? We have Hunk and Lance, who are both of color. But that was the case in the original Voltron, so it's hardly relevant to bring up in "wokeness." Allura was changed to a person of color. No attention was ever drawn to this, it was just the color her skin was. Shrio was changed from Norwegian (with a stupidly bad accent) to someone of Japanese descent. Again, no attention was ever drawn to this, aside from one joke about a stereotypical "Martial arts student losses his master" set up when they were playing space Dungeons and Dragons. Shiro was also gay and I think the show acknowledged that like five times. Pidge was changed from a weird Kermit the Frog on helium thing to a teenage girl. That got directly addressed a handful of times.

This is "over-relying on representation while feeling safe in the refuge of having the option of calling their critics some type of bigot?" Did anyone involved in the production of Voltron EVER call anyone a bigot? Did you actually watch Voltron? I can tell you didn't.

Yeah, except the problem is that trying to gauge "averageness" is the AAA industry is an exercise in futility.

Dreiko:
especially Voltron which got cancelled failed commercially

I can't imagine a show commercially failing it's way into 7 seasons and almost 80 hour-long episodes.

undeadsuitor:

Dreiko:
especially Voltron which got cancelled failed commercially

I can't imagine a show commercially failing it's way into 7 seasons and almost 80 hour-long episodes.

I wish my failures could be that successful

Dreiko:
Both Sheera and especially Voltron which got cancelled failed commercially due to being dull and over-relying on representation while feeling safe in the refuge of having the option of calling their critics some type of bigot, which led them to making terribly dull, bad content. You don't need me to explain much, just contrast their performance to Yuuri and see what conclusion you reach.

Vo;tron was licensed for 65 episodes and ran for 65 episodes. We knew this from season 1. Netflix regularly commissions their kids shows like this. It wasn't "cancelled", it just ended when its given time was up. Staff had been talking about the show's ending for years, and had been clear it wouldn't be renewed because of this structure.

They are, however, exploring spinoffs. Even if it gets nothing, it still has comics, games, toys, etc, which were popular. The lack of future media has nothing to do with wokeness or diversity.

For someone whose entire point was that anyone can cherry-pick data, you should probably avoid examples which are wholely fabricated.

On that note, I've seen literally nothing to suggest that She-Ra is doing poorly, but given your other example was of a show that lasted seven seasons and ended on its own terms, I seriously question the truth value here.

erttheking:
Shrio was changed from Norwegian (with a stupidly bad accent) to someone of Japanese descent. Again, no attention was ever drawn to this, aside from one joke about a stereotypical "Martial arts student losses his master" set up when they were playing space Dungeons and Dragons. Shiro was also gay and I think the show acknowledged that like five times.

Shiro being Japanese is also just part of the show's throwbacks to the GoLion show, like calling the bad guys Galra or calling Allura's people Alteans instead of Arusians. Prior incarnations of Voltron have given Keith the surname of his counterpart and made him canonically Japanese as well. I can't remember if that was handled in VLD. But this sort of thing isn't even new to the series.

And one more reminder for the folks at home how little it means when a company fails to meet expectations:

https://www.polygon.com/2019/2/12/18222096/blizzard-layoffs-february-2019

If the source is for some reason triggering to you, you can find the same data at pretty much any news site or look at Activision's own announcements on the subject.

Record profits in gaming aren't enough to avoid the chopping block.

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