Trolls and You

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Maybe this is a another big assumption, but hopefully everyone knows what an internet troll is.

One thing I want to point out is that it's usually seen as a person from the Right. Or at least that's what some assume.

I've been called SJW and racist through my years. The later I want to discuss. I've been wondering if all these SJWs people keep rambling on about are actually trolls. Or at least some of them.

Trolls whole existence is to annoy people, saying something that people find offensive. I could imagine a bunch of people pretending to be liberal but just out for those lulz. I see it happening to the Right (fake Right people through insults everywhere.)

Anyways, Leftie Trolls. So they exist? Does this somewhat explain what people claim to be SJWs?

What people call SJWs are people like me who stand up to bullies. Bullies hate being stood up to, so they call me and those like me 'SJWs' as an insult, the same way they use 'intellectual' as an insult. I mean, 'Social Justice Warrior' isn't really inherently offensive, but it is used as a negative.

I find people who use SJW unironically are typically just bigots. I mean, how fucked up is it to think that 'person who wants equality' is somehow a bad thing?

I mean, the scumbag left is a thing though I don't think their intentions are to troll people (unless it's an inexorably stupid propagandist like that mutant Charlie Kirk or whoever). They just seem to have no time or reverence for all the supposed decorum of liberal politics in the age of Trump, where nothing anyone says or does even matters any more and I kind of find it hard to disagree with that POV. You're never going to own Trump with facts or logic because he and his flunkies don't operate on this plane of reality. So why bother?

Personally, I've only ever really met a couple people I'd consider hardcore SJWs in the pejorative sense and they were mildly irritating more than anything. If amped up Tumblrinas are getting you down, I reckon it's time to spend less time on the Internet.

As far as I've understood Trolls are, well, polysexuality? As in its not about who offend but how many they offend. So a Troll here on the Escapist posts nothing but Razorfist and Quatering to troll liberals AND then goes on Reddit to post Huffpost and Liberal.Inc on r/Donald.

Meaning they're in this to fuck with you, nothing more. I play 40k Word Bearers, Saelune is Trans, and DefunctTheory likes House Davian. A troll would go to our respective Reddit's with Leo Beats Davian, Trans are Sick, Lorgar is a Fuck Up with no real care for those posts. Its all about the response. Pissing me, her, him off, and then LOL it was a social experiment LOL!

Well there's a portion of people on the Right that think SJWs are blue-haired Tumblr posters that think they're attack helicopters and have transgender dogs. They pretty much think that those "attack helicopter" memes are real, and it's incredibly easy for them to get extremely mad at it because they spend way too much time online and are disconnected from reality. So if someone calls me an SJW because I don't think it's okay for them to dress up as a KKK Grand Wizard for Halloween or whatever, and I respond by playing into that hyperbolic image that they have, then yeah I guess that's "trolling" them. It's pretty much the only way I've seen it happen too. Someone on the Right says or does something racist or stupid, someone on the Left calls them out for it, person on the Right calls them an SJW Libtard, and then the person on the Left plays into that image they have to upset them. The thing about that is, it's extremely obvious that it's hyperbole and sarcasm but they get mad anyway. You would expect them to roll their eyes and say "okay ha ha ha, real funny asshole", but no they take it seriously. It's just too easy to fuck with them and basically accidental. Like that whole "Antifa Super-Soldier" thing that went around and caused a bunch of right wing shitheads to march around with guns and prepare for war. Their worldview is so damn comical and disconnected from reality, that you can "troll" them on accident.

One thing I've learned from the internet is that the term "troll" has two functioning uses: someone who disagrees with me (that's bad) and someone who suckers the people who disagree with me (that's good). We are all considered trolls at some point or other merely for existing on the internet with a set of opinions that is slightly different from those of others. It's sort of a reverse "True Christian" in that a True Christian is someone who believes in Jaysus the same way the speaker believes in Jaysus.

What I see in the right tends to be "trolls" who believe a certain ideology until called out, and then they're just trolling. I tend not to believe this, because this means a significant number of people are dedicating significant chunks of their life--often including in private--just for the lulz.

"troll" is a defense used by proud boys after fights with gay people or black people. It's an excuse for your own, and it's a way to write off the other.

I've only run into one poster on this site that I genuinely consider to be a troll, who I'm not going to name, and maybe he was only trolling me, because I've seen him make normal, good faith posts in other threads. I recognize a troll by the strawman tactic, repeatedly rearranging and falsifying what you are saying into something significantly different and then attacking the rearranged false viewpoint. I went back and forth with this person for weeks on here one time, until I finally just decided to ignore him, because he was obviously there for the sole purpose of driving the discussion in an endless loop for his own jollies.

Silentpony:
Lorgar is a Fuck Up

But Lorgar objectively won the Horus Heresy.

Here Comes Tomorrow:

Silentpony:
Lorgar is a Fuck Up

But Lorgar objectively won the Horus Heresy.

no he didnt
His first goal was to have all of humanity embrace chaos, his secondary goal was Horus as the new Emperor and tertiary goal was to usurp Horus as the new Emperor himself. He failed on all ends

Silentpony:

Here Comes Tomorrow:

Silentpony:
Lorgar is a Fuck Up

But Lorgar objectively won the Horus Heresy.

no he didnt
His first goal was to have all of humanity embrace chaos, his secondary goal was Horus as the new Emperor and tertiary goal was to usurp Horus as the new Emperor himself. He failed on all ends

Is or is the Emperor not now worshipped as a deity?

The trolling mentality exists. If it exists in one human, it can be in all others.

I'm sure there are even devout Nuns who are trolls, and I am sure that there at Deep south rural Republicans who never saw a minority or gay person in his or her life, and would be absolutely sweet to that minority because it makes them no nevermind (That's Southern talk for y'all). Because politics or beliefs don't make the personality. People are either born with it or choose it. Everything else stems from that.

To sum up, hell yes there are Leftie Trolls. And there are some Trolls who don't believe in any of this stuff, but sees that it gets people worked up so they put on the persona and purposely antagonizes the Right. The actual trick is trying to discern which of of those are you dealing with at any time. That is the same with every Troll in all walks of life.

trunkage:
Maybe this is a another big assumption, but hopefully everyone knows what an internet troll is.

If you're going to assume we all know what it means, it would be helpful if you put forth your definition so everyone else can either agree or disagree with it.

Trolls whole existence is to annoy people, saying something that people find offensive.

A Troll says/does things that are deliberately outlandish, with intent in provoking an emotional (over)reaction from a particular group.

Anyways, Leftie Trolls. So they exist?

Define "leftie".

Would Sacha Baron Cohen qualify as "left"? He was clearly trolled the "right" in Borat and Who is America?
The Daily Show's interviewers troll both left and right.

Here Comes Tomorrow:

Silentpony:

Here Comes Tomorrow:

But Lorgar objectively won the Horus Heresy.

no he didnt
His first goal was to have all of humanity embrace chaos, his secondary goal was Horus as the new Emperor and tertiary goal was to usurp Horus as the new Emperor himself. He failed on all ends

Is or is the Emperor not now worshipped as a deity?

He is, but that wasn't Lorgar's goal during the Heresy. His goal was for Humanity to worship Chaos, not the Emperor. Lorgar is such a fuck up he accidentally accomplished his original goal, a goal he didn't want anymore, by attempting to accomplish his new goal.

Silentpony:

Here Comes Tomorrow:

Silentpony:
no he didnt
His first goal was to have all of humanity embrace chaos, his secondary goal was Horus as the new Emperor and tertiary goal was to usurp Horus as the new Emperor himself. He failed on all ends

Is or is the Emperor not now worshipped as a deity?

He is, but that wasn't Lorgar's goal during the Heresy. His goal was for Humanity to worship Chaos, not the Emperor. Lorgar is such a fuck up he accidentally accomplished his original goal, a goal he didn't want anymore, by attempting to accomplish his new goal.

I think you'll find thats what the kids are calling "4D chess".

To put this at its simplest, let me ask the following: Have you ever done or said something for the explicit purpose of getting a rise out of someone? Thrown your support behind a person or project knowing little about it outside of the fact that it pissed off a group you hated? Deliberately changed your manner of speech to make someone or a group of someones angry? If so, you were acting as a troll in those instances.

The defining feature of a troll is that they are acting out of spite. That their actions are causing pain, frustration, and/or anger is considered reason enough to justify those actions.

Here Comes Tomorrow:
Is or is the Emperor not now worshipped as a deity?

The Emperor is worshipped as a deity because the Emperor is a deity. During the Horus Heresy, however, the Emperor was not a deity.

Lorgar was still a fuck up.

Asita:
To put this at its simplest, let me ask the following: Have you ever done or said something for the explicit purpose of getting a rise out of someone?

Does playing "I'm not touching you" with siblings count as doing that?

Because if so, yes.

CM156:

Asita:
To put this at its simplest, let me ask the following: Have you ever done or said something for the explicit purpose of getting a rise out of someone?

Does playing "I'm not touching you" with siblings count as doing that?

Because if so, yes.

Strictly speaking, yes. You are certainly trolling your sibling when you do that. In fact it actually makes for a very good illustration about the nature of trolling. I imagine that for most purposes, however, people tend to limit their scope to people of an age where they really should know better.

None of the leftists on this forum have ever trolled, and you can't prove otherwise.

Asita:

CM156:

Asita:
To put this at its simplest, let me ask the following: Have you ever done or said something for the explicit purpose of getting a rise out of someone?

Does playing "I'm not touching you" with siblings count as doing that?

Because if so, yes.

Strictly speaking, yes. You are certainly trolling your sibling when you do that. In fact it actually makes for a very good illustration about the nature of trolling. I imagine that for most purposes, however, people tend to limit their scope to people of an age where they really should know better.

I would argue that most people enjoy getting a rise out of people, especially people they don't like.

BreakfastMan:
None of the leftists on this forum have ever trolled, and you can't prove otherwise.

Leftist by the standards of this forum or leftists in general? I would bet that about 75-90% of the people who post here are left of center by at least American standards.

trunkage:

Anyways, Leftie Trolls. So they exist? Does this somewhat explain what people claim to be SJWs?

Lefty trolls do exist. But to make that work for trolling, you need to make your argument far more leftist than the audience accepts as a viable opinion.

Which is why i hardly ever see any. I am just not active in far right circles where left trolling is easy. And the over-the-top-exaggeration "Pol Pot was the best man ever"/"We should abort all male babies and rely on artificial pregnancy in future to ablosih gender imbalances" that could work in places like here are hard to keep up.

But i don't think that trolls are the reason for the SJW complains. That falls more on bloggers, writers of opinion pieces and similar contributors. Those need clicks, pageview or readers. And being controversial enough that most people strongly disagree but reasonable enough to be taken at face value is the best spot to generate money.

Satinavian:
But i don't think that trolls are the reason for the SJW complains. That falls more on bloggers, writers of opinion pieces and similar contributors. Those need clicks, pageview or readers. And being controversial enough that most people strongly disagree but reasonable enough to be taken at face value is the best spot to generate money.

Far too many times I see anything to do with LBGTI, women or even discussing masculinity classed as SJW. Because, generally, SJW is that button people press when they're scared of the topic. Whether its true or not is irrelevant

Kerg3927:
I've only run into one poster on this site that I genuinely consider to be a troll, who I'm not going to name, and maybe he was only trolling me, because I've seen him make normal, good faith posts in other threads. I recognize a troll by the strawman tactic, repeatedly rearranging and falsifying what you are saying into something significantly different and then attacking the rearranged false viewpoint. I went back and forth with this person for weeks on here one time, until I finally just decided to ignore him, because he was obviously there for the sole purpose of driving the discussion in an endless loop for his own jollies.

Hi Kerg!

trunkage:
Maybe this is a another big assumption, but hopefully everyone knows what an internet troll is.

One thing I want to point out is that it's usually seen as a person from the Right. Or at least that's what some assume.

I've been called SJW and racist through my years. The later I want to discuss. I've been wondering if all these SJWs people keep rambling on about are actually trolls. Or at least some of them.

Trolls whole existence is to annoy people, saying something that people find offensive. I could imagine a bunch of people pretending to be liberal but just out for those lulz. I see it happening to the Right (fake Right people through insults everywhere.)

Anyways, Leftie Trolls. So they exist? Does this somewhat explain what people claim to be SJWs?

I do wonder how much might be someone trolling with an extreme left viewpoint and how much might be someone just using sarcasm and the other guy not getting it:
"Oh yes, clearly thats what we want, all people to be made into hermaphrodites"
"Look, see, told you they were crazy!"

CM156:

Asita:

CM156:

Does playing "I'm not touching you" with siblings count as doing that?

Because if so, yes.

Strictly speaking, yes. You are certainly trolling your sibling when you do that. In fact it actually makes for a very good illustration about the nature of trolling. I imagine that for most purposes, however, people tend to limit their scope to people of an age where they really should know better.

I would argue that most people enjoy getting a rise out of people, especially people they don't like.

Aye. And my unspoken point was that most of us have acted as a troll at least on occasion.

A common mistake I see in topics like these is to think of trolling as something foreign, that other people do; that nobody they know and like would indulge in it. I suspect this is in large part because while we easily recognize someone taking the piss at our expense as trolling, we tend to overlook the fact that us taking the piss at their expense is the same thing with the roles reversed. This itself is likely explained by the fact that we tend to find the former frustrating and the latter humorous, and thus feel the latter is more justified. Ie, we have less patience for shenanigans from another tribe than we do for shenanigans of our own.

Silentpony:

Here Comes Tomorrow:

Silentpony:
no he didnt
His first goal was to have all of humanity embrace chaos, his secondary goal was Horus as the new Emperor and tertiary goal was to usurp Horus as the new Emperor himself. He failed on all ends

Is or is the Emperor not now worshipped as a deity?

He is, but that wasn't Lorgar's goal during the Heresy. His goal was for Humanity to worship Chaos, not the Emperor. Lorgar is such a fuck up he accidentally accomplished his original goal, a goal he didn't want anymore, by attempting to accomplish his new goal.

Lorgar basically went looking for a god to worship, as I understand it. Writes the Lecticio Divinatus and starts a cult worshipping the Emperor, Big E told him to knock that shit off and sent the Ultramarines to burn Monarchia to the ground to teach Lorgar a lesson. At which point something Warp-y revealed the existence of the Chaos Gods to him (probably Kor Phaeron or FFFFUCKING EREBUS) with the implication that the Emperor may not be a god, but Chaos certainly has a few who could use a legion of devoted followers.

Palindromemordnilap:
Hi Kerg!

Hello!

Asita:
To put this at its simplest, let me ask the following: Have you ever done or said something for the explicit purpose of getting a rise out of someone? Thrown your support behind a person or project knowing little about it outside of the fact that it pissed off a group you hated? Deliberately changed your manner of speech to make someone or a group of someones angry? If so, you were acting as a troll in those instances.

The defining feature of a troll is that they are acting out of spite. That their actions are causing pain, frustration, and/or anger is considered reason enough to justify those actions.

I'd narrow it down a bit from that. A good troll gets others to waste their time responding to them. It's not enough to get people mad; they must also start lecturing the troll because they think there is a person there with actual reasoning and real motivations. All of that goes to waste and the troll gets their fun (and satisfaction?).

And of course there are righteous trolls who think they are doing the right thing by being idiots online. People getting mad at them just proves their point! Genius.

In most coliqual use of the term, the people refered to trolls are usualy the Arm Pit of the Internet sort, feeding off other people's annoyance (which makes me wonder why Trump isn't fatter).

THis said, there are times when its appropriate. I think most of us have seen ideos with clips trolling different protesters (such as a gay man proposing to his boyfriend infront of homophobic protestors, ora guy dressed as Jesus holding a sign nfront of Westbaro Baptists saying I'm not with them. My favorite in this catagory is when a bunch of cosplayers cought wind their convention was being picketed by the Westbarrow group, they brought out their own sighs and had fun (complete with Obay the Hypno Toad sign and a Bender saying Destroy all Humans). I could have sworn a Deadpool held a sign saying Kneel Before Zodd, but that might have been for somethign different.

I would consider groups like the radical exclusionary feminists and peta to be left trolls. Although... I'm not certain the troll label really works since trolls know they are full of shit, they just do it to get reactions, I think both of those groups believe in the crap they do.

There are higher risks with lesser rewards for being a leftist troll. Besides, being a troll is more of a statement of individuality over cooperation; and that's much more frequent on the right side of the spectrum.

Worgen:
I would consider groups like the radical exclusionary feminists and peta to be left trolls. Although... I'm not certain the troll label really works since trolls know they are full of shit, they just do it to get reactions, I think both of those groups believe in the crap they do.

I wouldn't call TERFs trolls for just that reason: They 100% believe every single thing they say. Additionally, the things they say can be used to troll more orthodox feminists.

CM156:

Worgen:
I would consider groups like the radical exclusionary feminists and peta to be left trolls. Although... I'm not certain the troll label really works since trolls know they are full of shit, they just do it to get reactions, I think both of those groups believe in the crap they do.

I wouldn't call TERFs trolls for just that reason: They 100% believe every single thing they say. Additionally, the things they say can be used to troll more orthodox feminists.

Yes. Being a troll is not the same thing as having extreme, shitty, or extremely shitty opinions or beliefs. A troll is someone who tries to get others angry for the amusement of of seeing someone get really angry over relatively little. Extremists and fringe elements are usually prime targets for trolls rather than trolls themselves, because it is generally a lot easier to get a rise out of them. The best/worst trolls don't just strive to get a rise single individual or group, but to make them react in a way that makes others angry at those people, creating a cycle of offense, people being offended that others are offended, and people being offended that others are offended at other people being offended that happens ALL THE TIME on the internet, regardless of whether it was initiated by a troll or not, and doesn't appear to have a bias for occurring in either the uselessly broad and oversimplified categorizations of "left" or "right" thinking individuals. The thing about these that I find strange is that it seems like people are far more likely to be aware of the things their political opponents get offended by rather than the things that offend their political allies. I guess "Look at how stupid they are for being offended at something benign" gets more traction than "Look at this thing you should be upset about."

CaitSeith:
There are higher risks with lesser rewards for being a leftist troll. Besides, being a troll is more of a statement of individuality over cooperation; and that's much more frequent on the right side of the spectrum.

I have been wondering if the Right reaction to 'jokes' leads to the left not doing jokes anymore. Personally, the more people on the Right I interact with, the less I feel I can do a joke.

That being said, Attack Helicopter is a joke too. Just not one I find funny. So I'm probably doing the same to them.,

Ravinoff:

Silentpony:

Here Comes Tomorrow:

Is or is the Emperor not now worshipped as a deity?

He is, but that wasn't Lorgar's goal during the Heresy. His goal was for Humanity to worship Chaos, not the Emperor. Lorgar is such a fuck up he accidentally accomplished his original goal, a goal he didn't want anymore, by attempting to accomplish his new goal.

Lorgar basically went looking for a god to worship, as I understand it. Writes the Lecticio Divinatus and starts a cult worshipping the Emperor, Big E told him to knock that shit off and sent the Ultramarines to burn Monarchia to the ground to teach Lorgar a lesson. At which point something Warp-y revealed the existence of the Chaos Gods to him (probably Kor Phaeron or FFFFUCKING EREBUS) with the implication that the Emperor may not be a god, but Chaos certainly has a few who could use a legion of devoted followers.

If I remember correctly Lorgar as a child had visions of a Golden Figure coming from the sky to take him and his best warriors to conquer the Galaxy. So he leads a crusade of his loyal warriors on Colchis to overthrow the ruling religion, Chaos. He burns temples, kills fanatics, fights daemons using the Emperor as a God figure.
Erebus and Kor Phaeron survive the wars someone and 'convert'.
Big E comes, in Golden Armor, to take Lorgar and his best warriors to the great Crusade. Faith=true basically and for like 140years Big E didn't do anything to stop Lorgar and his religion, because it was a good olive branch to offer the more religious cultures. Then Monarchia and the big fuck ups.

CM156:

Worgen:
I would consider groups like the radical exclusionary feminists and peta to be left trolls. Although... I'm not certain the troll label really works since trolls know they are full of shit, they just do it to get reactions, I think both of those groups believe in the crap they do.

I wouldn't call TERFs trolls for just that reason: They 100% believe every single thing they say. Additionally, the things they say can be used to troll more orthodox feminists.

This is key. More often than not, it seems, when someone accuses another on the internet of being a troll, it's not really the case. It's just someone who disagrees with the accuser, and some people have a really hard time accepting the fact that someone honestly disagrees with them, especially if they spend most of their time on echo chamber sites where everyone sits around in a circle jerk of agreement. But if a person genuinely believes what they say, they are not a troll. A troll is doing what he does specifically to get a reaction, and he doesn't really believe everything he's saying. He's just saying things to press his victim's buttons and get him riled up.

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