Shooting at 2 mosques in Christchurch, New Zealand

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It's not just America that this happens in. Today, there a gunman opened fire on two mosques. Part of said shooting was broadcast online by the shooter, who was apparently inspired by white supremacist manifestos, given that he posted admiration of several white supremacists, as well as posting links to a manifesto.

In the manifesto, he also gives another motivation for the shooting: to spread discord in the US over the Second Amendment.

This was potentially part of a larger plot, as three men and a woman are reported to be in custody, with police commissioner Mike Bush stating that several stopped cars were found to have explosive devices.
---

A few things I want to say about this, beyond what should go without saying about how horrible an event this is. The first is that the two mosques were some distance away. Based on the map provided in the news article, the first shooting was at a mosque on Deans Avenue, and the second was near Linwood Avenue. Using the scale on the map, it seems there was at least 3 kilometers between the mosques, and that's as the crow flies, not following roads. The fact that someone could shoot up a mosque, leave to rearm, come back and continue shooting, and then drive off to the second mosque without anyone stopping him, is fucking terrifying. If that was in an action movie, I don't think my suspicion of disbelief would let me buy it.

On a slightly more positive note, the article I found, from the New York Times, did not list the gunman's name anywhere, only describing him as a 28-year-old born in Australia. To me, that is the right tack to take with this sort of...person. Don't give them any sort of publicity, don't give them a face. They want attention? Make sure to make everyone aware of their crimes...and nothing else.

Source: New York Times

Trump posted a link to the brietbart coverage of this, which is filled with
comments pretty-much praising or downplaying this. Fucking slime.

'Christchurch'

I don't think ignoring problems makes it go away. The real problem is not dealing with it properly. The real solution to this is actually putting a heavy foot down on this kind of action and rhetoric. But that would require acknowledging Muslims as people, and few Christian societies want to do that.

How is this sowing discord over the second Amendment?

trunkage:
How is this sowing discord over the second Amendment?

According to the shooter...because guns.

A sobering reminder that encouraging hate is not consequence-free.

Considering the baffling amount of sarcasm and irony in his written statements, I think it's clear that we can put the details of his plans into question... he might simply be trying to get a reaction with the Second Amendment thing, as he was with the Candace Owens mention, the PewDiePie one, and even his supposed support of Oswald Mosley (which is mostly a meme in esoteric far-right circles IIRC)

The only things that are pretty certain is that this was fueled by hatred, bigotry, and is the logical conclusion of far right ideology mixed with the crushing cynicism of internet culture.

Its also good to see that Arden straight up calls it a terrorist attack.

JoJo:
A sobering reminder that encouraging hate is not consequence-free.

Encouraging hate is actually, usually very consequence free for the person encouraging the hate.

The consequences are for everyone else.

trunkage:
Its also good to see that Arden straight up calls it a terrorist attack.

JoJo:
A sobering reminder that encouraging hate is not consequence-free.

Encouraging hate is actually, usually very consequence free for the person encouraging the hate.

The consequences are for everyone else.

Well, precisely.

Anyhow, I work in the English town of Christchurch, and so my thoughts are with our twins on the other side of the Earth. Stay strong.

thebobmaster:
The fact that someone could shoot up a mosque, leave to rearm, come back and continue shooting, and then drive off to the second mosque without anyone stopping him, is fucking terrifying. If that was in an action movie, I don't think my suspicion of disbelief would let me buy it.

This is new-zealand so unlike our american counterparts
1) we're not sued to shootings, espcially on this scale. they're few and far between especially with bodycounts this high
2) no-ones armed like the US. Sure hunters have guns, but your average joe won't, so even if someone wanted to try theres not really much you could do.
3) our cops don't carry guns. Typically tasers and maybe a service rifle in the trunk, so it's not like they could do much against a guy armed with (apparently) and AR-15. They would've dispatched our armed offenders squad (think swat), but even by then they could've made it to the second mosque.

Also want to add that haven't confirmed that it was the same guy at both places, and that it was one vehicle with two ieds

Saelune:
'Christchurch'

I don't think ignoring problems makes it go away. The real problem is not dealing with it properly. The real solution to this is actually putting a heavy foot down on this kind of action and rhetoric. But that would require acknowledging Muslims as people, and few Christian societies want to do that.

You do know that christchurch is more than chirstians right?

Sonmi:
Considering the baffling amount of sarcasm and irony in his written statements, I think it's clear that we can put the details of his plans into question... he might simply be trying to get a reaction with the Second Amendment thing, as he was with the Candace Owens mention, the PewDiePie one, and even his supposed support of Oswald Mosley (which is mostly a meme in esoteric far-right circles IIRC)

The only things that are pretty certain is that this was fueled by hatred, bigotry, and is the logical conclusion of far right ideology mixed with the crushing cynicism of internet culture.

The shooter specifically says in his manifesto his aim is to sow division. By having a kneejerk reaction and calling him far right you're doing exactly what he wants.

His manifesto and the live stream are so thick with memes I'd actually say he's either a false flag or apolitical.

Samos205:

Saelune:
'Christchurch'

I don't think ignoring problems makes it go away. The real problem is not dealing with it properly. The real solution to this is actually putting a heavy foot down on this kind of action and rhetoric. But that would require acknowledging Muslims as people, and few Christian societies want to do that.

You do know that christchurch is more than chirstians right?

This topic is literally about Muslims being murdered in 'Christchurch'

Here Comes Tomorrow:

Sonmi:
Considering the baffling amount of sarcasm and irony in his written statements, I think it's clear that we can put the details of his plans into question... he might simply be trying to get a reaction with the Second Amendment thing, as he was with the Candace Owens mention, the PewDiePie one, and even his supposed support of Oswald Mosley (which is mostly a meme in esoteric far-right circles IIRC)

The only things that are pretty certain is that this was fueled by hatred, bigotry, and is the logical conclusion of far right ideology mixed with the crushing cynicism of internet culture.

The shooter specifically says in his manifesto his aim is to sow division. By having a kneejerk reaction and calling him far right you're doing exactly what he wants.

His manifesto and the live stream are so thick with memes I'd actually say he's either a false flag or apolitical.

Right-Wingers: 'The Left can't meme'.

Right-wingers have laid heavy claim to the concept of memes, so uh, it actually supports that he is a right-winger.

Saelune:

Samos205:

Saelune:
'Christchurch'

I don't think ignoring problems makes it go away. The real problem is not dealing with it properly. The real solution to this is actually putting a heavy foot down on this kind of action and rhetoric. But that would require acknowledging Muslims as people, and few Christian societies want to do that.

You do know that christchurch is more than chirstians right?

This topic is literally about Muslims being murdered in 'Christchurch'

Yes and you're comment implies that christchurch is a christian society. Its not, its a pretty mixed bag of religions.

Here Comes Tomorrow:

Sonmi:
Considering the baffling amount of sarcasm and irony in his written statements, I think it's clear that we can put the details of his plans into question... he might simply be trying to get a reaction with the Second Amendment thing, as he was with the Candace Owens mention, the PewDiePie one, and even his supposed support of Oswald Mosley (which is mostly a meme in esoteric far-right circles IIRC)

The only things that are pretty certain is that this was fueled by hatred, bigotry, and is the logical conclusion of far right ideology mixed with the crushing cynicism of internet culture.

The shooter specifically says in his manifesto his aim is to sow division. By having a kneejerk reaction and calling him far right you're doing exactly what he wants.

His manifesto and the live stream are so thick with memes I'd actually say he's either a false flag or apolitical.

He wants to sow division so that "his" side can win and finally take over. Denying that the nutter was an extreme right-wing terrorist is obfuscating the conversation in order to disingenuously shirk any responsibility "the Right" could hold for what just happened. It's transparent, and the man should be called what he is whether it's politically correct to say so or not, he's a right wing terrorist.

Samos205:

Saelune:

Samos205:

You do know that christchurch is more than chirstians right?

This topic is literally about Muslims being murdered in 'Christchurch'

Yes and you're comment implies that christchurch is a christian society. Its not, its a pretty mixed bag of religions.

People like to pretend Christianity does not have as much of a hold over the world, but it has way more than most want to admit, and it isn't helpful. A place called Christchurch where Muslim Mosques are being shot up? That says something very specific.

Saelune:
This topic is literally about Muslims being murdered in 'Christchurch'

Motivated by White Supremacy, not by religion.

Satinavian:

Saelune:
This topic is literally about Muslims being murdered in 'Christchurch'

Motivated by White Supremacy, not by religion.

Whats the difference?

Satinavian:

Saelune:
This topic is literally about Muslims being murdered in 'Christchurch'

Motivated by White Supremacy, not by religion.

True, in fact, when asked about his faith, the shooter said he didn't know what religion he belonged to.

If anything, I'd guess reactionary neo-paganism, seeing as he identified his political views as being eco-fascist.

Saelune:

Satinavian:

Saelune:
This topic is literally about Muslims being murdered in 'Christchurch'

Motivated by White Supremacy, not by religion.

Whats the difference?

One is a couple of racists. The other is not.

Satinavian:

Saelune:

Satinavian:
Motivated by White Supremacy, not by religion.

Whats the difference?

One is a couple of racists. The other is not.

'couple of racists'?

Here Comes Tomorrow:

Sonmi:
Considering the baffling amount of sarcasm and irony in his written statements, I think it's clear that we can put the details of his plans into question... he might simply be trying to get a reaction with the Second Amendment thing, as he was with the Candace Owens mention, the PewDiePie one, and even his supposed support of Oswald Mosley (which is mostly a meme in esoteric far-right circles IIRC)

The only things that are pretty certain is that this was fueled by hatred, bigotry, and is the logical conclusion of far right ideology mixed with the crushing cynicism of internet culture.

The shooter specifically says in his manifesto his aim is to sow division. By having a kneejerk reaction and calling him far right you're doing exactly what he wants.

His manifesto and the live stream are so thick with memes I'd actually say he's either a false flag or apolitical.

I'll wait and see how alt-right reacts to it over time. So far I've seen people praise his work on 4chan, so you're got a lot more to convince now.

Even if he's an extremist, the Alt-right need to understand that their rhetoric is divisive in it's self. This literally won't add much to that fire/inferno.

Also, nice try, giving a reason why it isn't connected to the Alt-right. It definitely isn't apolitical if it's trying to be divisive. False flag gets thrown around everytime this happens that I'm not suprised it hasn't happened accidentally once.

Lastly, it's funny how an Alt-right claims Muslim can never distance himself from Extremists from his religion enough but, somehow, Extremist Alt-rights are never associated with mainstream Alt-right

Satinavian:

Saelune:
This topic is literally about Muslims being murdered in 'Christchurch'

Motivated by White Supremacy, not by religion.

It's motivated by anti-immigration sentiments actually. He specifically says he doesn't hate Jews and Muslims as long as they stay in their own country.

You know, since we're taking what he says at face value and all.

trunkage:
I'll wait and see how alt-right reacts to it over time. So far I've seen people praise his work on 4chan, so you're got a lot more to convince now.

Do you mean /pol/ or 4chan?

Samos205:

thebobmaster:
The fact that someone could shoot up a mosque, leave to rearm, come back and continue shooting, and then drive off to the second mosque without anyone stopping him, is fucking terrifying. If that was in an action movie, I don't think my suspicion of disbelief would let me buy it.

This is new-zealand so unlike our american counterparts
1) we're not sued to shootings, espcially on this scale. they're few and far between especially with bodycounts this high
2) no-ones armed like the US. Sure hunters have guns, but your average joe won't, so even if someone wanted to try theres not really much you could do.
3) our cops don't carry guns. Typically tasers and maybe a service rifle in the trunk, so it's not like they could do much against a guy armed with (apparently) and AR-15. They would've dispatched our armed offenders squad (think swat), but even by then they could've made it to the second mosque.

Also want to add that haven't confirmed that it was the same guy at both places, and that it was one vehicle with two ieds

Saelune:
'Christchurch'

I don't think ignoring problems makes it go away. The real problem is not dealing with it properly. The real solution to this is actually putting a heavy foot down on this kind of action and rhetoric. But that would require acknowledging Muslims as people, and few Christian societies want to do that.

You do know that christchurch is more than chirstians right?

The New Zealand police don't carry sidearms? That's interesting, I didn't know that.

What I find doubly interesting is the weapons used. I wasn't aware such items were available in that country, or will the be contraband items?

Here Comes Tomorrow:

trunkage:
I'll wait and see how alt-right reacts to it over time. So far I've seen people praise his work on 4chan, so you're got a lot more to convince now.

Do you mean /pol/ or 4chan?

They're pretty much inseparable since GG, 2016 was simply the final nail in the coffin.

I've never been on /pol/, but the reaction seems to be 50/50 outside of it.

Sonmi:

Here Comes Tomorrow:

trunkage:
I'll wait and see how alt-right reacts to it over time. So far I've seen people praise his work on 4chan, so you're got a lot more to convince now.

Do you mean /pol/ or 4chan?

They're pretty much inseparable since GG, 2016 was simply the final nail in the coffin.

I've never been on /pol/, but the reaction seems to be 50/50 outside of it.

Oh right. I forgot the big contributon /diy/, /p/ and /lgbt/ had towards Gamergate.

Here Comes Tomorrow:
His manifesto and the live stream are so thick with memes I'd actually say he's either a false flag or apolitical.

Here Comes Tomorrow:

It's motivated by anti-immigration sentiments actually. He specifically says he doesn't hate Jews and Muslims as long as they stay in their own country.

This is a highly indicative statement of racism and race supremacy, which has had a rich vein of expression from racists and race supremacists throughout history.

Seriously, bub. You might think you're being insightful here, but you're mostly just refusing to see the wood for the trees.

You know, since we're taking what he says at face value and all.

Why not?

What we shouldn't expect is that any such manifesto is an original philosophical tract of great profundity, clarity and incisive, logical thought. If you really want to go through the witterings of such people, generally you'll find they have a central beef or two, and the rest is a jumble of ideas often haphazardly built around it. These people were almost certainly not the smartest and most coherent thinkers at school by some way, and potentially also of dubious psychological stability.

People like that really are likely to drift to the basements of the internet and dredge a hodge-podge of ideas that they assemble into a tortured amalgam that makes sense to the relatively disordered mind producing it. The same is very likely true of loads of the people who end up joining Al-Qaida or ISIS.

Gordon_4:

Samos205:

thebobmaster:
The fact that someone could shoot up a mosque, leave to rearm, come back and continue shooting, and then drive off to the second mosque without anyone stopping him, is fucking terrifying. If that was in an action movie, I don't think my suspicion of disbelief would let me buy it.

This is new-zealand so unlike our american counterparts
1) we're not sued to shootings, espcially on this scale. they're few and far between especially with bodycounts this high
2) no-ones armed like the US. Sure hunters have guns, but your average joe won't, so even if someone wanted to try theres not really much you could do.
3) our cops don't carry guns. Typically tasers and maybe a service rifle in the trunk, so it's not like they could do much against a guy armed with (apparently) and AR-15. They would've dispatched our armed offenders squad (think swat), but even by then they could've made it to the second mosque.

Also want to add that haven't confirmed that it was the same guy at both places, and that it was one vehicle with two ieds

Saelune:
'Christchurch'

I don't think ignoring problems makes it go away. The real problem is not dealing with it properly. The real solution to this is actually putting a heavy foot down on this kind of action and rhetoric. But that would require acknowledging Muslims as people, and few Christian societies want to do that.

You do know that christchurch is more than chirstians right?

The New Zealand police don't carry sidearms? That's interesting, I didn't know that.

What I find doubly interesting is the weapons used. I wasn't aware such items were available in that country, or will the be contraband items?

As far as i'm aware they only carry taser's and even that caused a fair amount of debate when they were first introduced.
That's what i'm curious about too. I don't think anywhere sells AR's here, infact i'm almost 100% certain of that, and if he was importing it that should have set off some warning

Here Comes Tomorrow:

Sonmi:

Here Comes Tomorrow:

Do you mean /pol/ or 4chan?

They're pretty much inseparable since GG, 2016 was simply the final nail in the coffin.

I've never been on /pol/, but the reaction seems to be 50/50 outside of it.

Oh right. I forgot the big contributon /diy/, /p/ and /lgbt/ had towards Gamergate.

Those represent a minimal fraction of the site's userbase, and you know it.

Sonmi:

Here Comes Tomorrow:

Sonmi:

They're pretty much inseparable since GG, 2016 was simply the final nail in the coffin.

I've never been on /pol/, but the reaction seems to be 50/50 outside of it.

Oh right. I forgot the big contributon /diy/, /p/ and /lgbt/ had towards Gamergate.

Those represent a minimal fraction of the site's userbase, and you know it.

I do. But you also know 4chan is not a hive mind and that /pol/ is generally hated by the rest of 4chan.

Samos205:
2) no-ones armed like the US. Sure hunters have guns, but your average joe won't, so even if someone wanted to try theres not really much you could do.
3) our cops don't carry guns. Typically tasers and maybe a service rifle in the trunk, so it's not like they could do much against a guy armed with (apparently) and AR-15. They would've dispatched our armed offenders squad (think swat), but even by then they could've made it to the second mosque.

Clearly the solution is to give everyone guns.

That couldn't possibly go wrong, ...right?

Agema:

Here Comes Tomorrow:
His manifesto and the live stream are so thick with memes I'd actually say he's either a false flag or apolitical.

Here Comes Tomorrow:

It's motivated by anti-immigration sentiments actually. He specifically says he doesn't hate Jews and Muslims as long as they stay in their own country.

This is a highly indicative statement of racism and race supremacy, which has had a rich vein of expression from racists and race supremacists throughout history.

Seriously, bub. You might think you're being insightful here, but you're mostly just refusing to see the wood for the trees.

You know, since we're taking what he says at face value and all.

Why not?

Well which is it? Also do you honestly believe he was radicalized by Candace Owens?
His attitude and writings reeks of old /b/ when they used to harass people based on who would give the biggest, funniest reactions or raid Habbo Hotel or phone up TV shows to Bel Air people. I think it says a lot that he didn't commit suicide afterwards because otherwise he wouldn't get to see the fallout from his actions which is what he wants more than anything.

I'm not defending his actions. I just think it was an apolitical act dressed up as a political one to get a reaction.

Saelune:
'Christchurch'

I don't think ignoring problems makes it go away. The real problem is not dealing with it properly. The real solution to this is actually putting a heavy foot down on this kind of action and rhetoric. But that would require acknowledging Muslims as people, and few Christian societies want to do that.

Excuse me? Are flying the flag of piss-taker general today? The city's name is a holdover from days of yore and bears no relevance to an act of terrorism that has robbed 49 people of all they are or ever would be. It is an irrelevancy.

Gordon_4:

Saelune:
'Christchurch'

I don't think ignoring problems makes it go away. The real problem is not dealing with it properly. The real solution to this is actually putting a heavy foot down on this kind of action and rhetoric. But that would require acknowledging Muslims as people, and few Christian societies want to do that.

Excuse me? Are flying the flag of piss-taker general today? The city's name is a holdover from days of yore and bears no relevance to an act of terrorism that has robbed 49 people of all they are or ever would be. It is an irrelevancy.

New Zealand is a Christian country, just like the US, just like the UK and plenty of other European countries. We want to pretend they aren't, but they are, and it is a negative influence. Christchurch is a I mean, its like a parody its so on the nose, maybe change that shit if you don't want to be viewed as a place that is LITERALLY CALLED 'CHRISTCHURCH'!

A bunch of Muslims were killed in a place called Christchurch. I am not making that shit up.

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