Shooting at 2 mosques in Christchurch, New Zealand

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BreakfastMan:
I see you are not denying my characterization of your beliefs.

I guess I just tend to think that a thread about 49 people getting killed isn't the place for "Le funny strawman".

The Lunatic:

BreakfastMan:
I see you are not denying my characterization of your beliefs.

I guess I just tend to think that a thread about 49 people getting killed isn't the place for "Le funny strawman".

What makes you think it was a strawman? How do your actual political beliefs differ from what I posted?

Here Comes Tomorrow:

Sonmi:

Here Comes Tomorrow:

Good of you to dance to his tune.

"If you criticize him or his ideology, he wins!"

Considering that the opposite of what he wanted was that everyone gets along and comes together despite our differences that doesn't make you look as clever as you think it does.

pewdiepie reference is definitely an in-joke on 8-chan.

But this manifesto is a trap itself, laid for journalists searching for the meaning behind this horrific crime. There is truth in there, and valuable clues to the shooter's radicalization, but it is buried beneath a great deal of, for lack of a better word, "shitposting".

What is Shitposting?

Shitposting is the act of throwing out huge amounts of content, most of it ironic, low-quality trolling, for the purpose of provoking an emotional reaction in less Internet-savvy viewers. The ultimate goal is to derail productive discussion and distract readers. "The Great Replacement" is a clear and brutally obvious example of this technique.
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/rest-of-world/2019/03/15/shitposting-inspirational-terrorism-and-the-christchurch-mosque-massacre/?fbclid=IwAR2P3_4cdXQJ7XMBJ7CrvjITPflhBq5Y-nFAjCoOUOLGks9Jw4uNbwDUodI

BreakfastMan:

The Lunatic:

BreakfastMan:
I see you are not denying my characterization of your beliefs.

I guess I just tend to think that a thread about 49 people getting killed isn't the place for "Le funny strawman".

What makes you think it was a strawman? How do your actual political beliefs differ from what I posted?

I have never espoused any of the beliefs made in your "Humorous" post.

I found his manifesto if anyone wants to read it for context. This is what Hitler would have wrote if he had access to the internet.

Mod Edit: Link removed by Moderators. Links to Manifesto not permitted on this site.

The Lunatic:

BreakfastMan:

The Lunatic:

I guess I just tend to think that a thread about 49 people getting killed isn't the place for "Le funny strawman".

What makes you think it was a strawman? How do your actual political beliefs differ from what I posted?

I have never espoused any of the beliefs made in your "Humorous" post.

I asked how your actual political beliefs differ. How do your actual political beliefs differ? Do you have any problem with ethnonationalist ideologies? With islamophobia?

Here Comes Tomorrow:
I mean, pointing out that blaming "the right" is what the guy wanted is starting to feel repetitive.

Here Comes Tomorrow:

Except he was right and everyone is reacting exactly how he wanted them to.

And we should care because?

The Lunatic:
I have no connection to these people what so ever. It's disgusting you'd insult the memory of these people by even comparing me to their murderers. You should take some time to think about what you said.

Having reflected on what I wrote, I would like to clarify that I definitely did not intend to imply you have a connection with the murderers or accuse you of desiring mass murder and if you felt I did, I apologise.

However, I'll still say that 1) I think you're in this forum year after year taking mild versions of their positions, so it seems to me you are along the political spectrum towards their end and 2) you are seemingly deflecting and distracting every time they kill people which is something I personally find more disgusting to the memories of the dead, doubly so if to then use their deaths to defend yourself.

The pewdiepie thing was most likely the guy manipulating the media to attack the guy and get his account erased.

BreakfastMan:
I asked how your actual political beliefs differ. How do your actual political beliefs differ? Do you have any problem with ethnonationalist ideologies? With islamophobia?

There are plenty of ethnostates in the world. Many Islamic countries would meet the definition. I don't have any issue with these nations, it's merely a different culture. It's not my place to call for their dismantlement.

I think it's rational to have a degree of concern with the level of islamic terror that gets committed in the world. And the doctrines of islam itself are pretty eyebrow raising for a homosexual such as myself. I take issue with some of the things Islam preaches. But, there's also many of people who adopt a more moderate belief in Islam, as is the case with any religion.

MrCalavera:
Spyro the Dragon(!)

...can you pass me his name and the address of where he is being detained so I can go there immediately and kick him on the balls? Please?

Agema:

The Lunatic:
I have no connection to these people what so ever. It's disgusting you'd insult the memory of these people by even comparing me to their murderers. You should take some time to think about what you said.

Having reflected on what I wrote, I would like to clarify that I definitely did not intend to imply you have a connection with the murderers or accuse you of desiring mass murder and if you felt I did, I apologise.

However, I'll still say that 1) I think you're in this forum year after year taking mild versions of their positions, so it seems to me you are along the political spectrum towards their end and 2) you are seemingly deflecting and distracting every time they kill people which is something I personally find more disgusting to the memories of the dead, doubly so if to then use their deaths to defend yourself.

I still remember the guy having an alt right avatar during the wild west, and he would imply that he likes the idea of white nationalism.

Here Comes Tomorrow:

I'm not missing it at all. I can just recognise the difference between sincere racism and ironic racism because I've been immersed in it for years. Though I'm sure you're going to come back at me with "well maybe your view is skewed" like I'm incapable of critical thinking or self-awareness.

No, I'd say you're skewed because you dash in here saying stuff like it looks more like a false flag operation or he's apolitical - having claimed to have already read his manifesto - and that we should go out, hug Nazis and invite them to dinner otherwise we'd just be doing a far right murderer's job for him.

I'm not feeling that in terms of the most sound and normal judgement.

Agema:

Here Comes Tomorrow:

I'm not missing it at all. I can just recognise the difference between sincere racism and ironic racism because I've been immersed in it for years. Though I'm sure you're going to come back at me with "well maybe your view is skewed" like I'm incapable of critical thinking or self-awareness.

No, I'd say you're skewed because you dash in here saying stuff like it looks more like a false flag operation or he's apolitical - having claimed to have already read his manifesto - and that we should go out, hug Nazis and invite them to dinner otherwise we'd just be doing a far right murderer's job for him.

I'm not feeling that in terms of the most sound and normal judgement.

Yeah. That's exactly what I said. Not a shred of hyperbole in your post.

"Subscribe to Pewdiepie": This terrorist attack underlines that this truly is the dumbest timeline.

The Lunatic:

BreakfastMan:
I asked how your actual political beliefs differ. How do your actual political beliefs differ? Do you have any problem with ethnonationalist ideologies? With islamophobia?

There are plenty of ethnostates in the world. Many Islamic countries would meet the definition. I don't have any issue with these nations, it's merely a different culture. It's not my place to call for their dismantlement.

I think it's rational to have a degree of concern with the level of islamic terror that gets committed in the world. And the doctrines of islam itself are pretty eyebrow raising for a homosexual such as myself. I take issue with some of the things Islam preaches. But, there's also many of people who adopt a more moderate belief in Islam, as is the case with any religion.

Okay, then there you go. You can't condemn white nationalism, you can't condemn islamophobia. How do you then differentiate yourself from the ideology I posted?

Here Comes Tomorrow:

Agema:

Here Comes Tomorrow:

I'm not missing it at all. I can just recognise the difference between sincere racism and ironic racism because I've been immersed in it for years. Though I'm sure you're going to come back at me with "well maybe your view is skewed" like I'm incapable of critical thinking or self-awareness.

No, I'd say you're skewed because you dash in here saying stuff like it looks more like a false flag operation or he's apolitical - having claimed to have already read his manifesto - and that we should go out, hug Nazis and invite them to dinner otherwise we'd just be doing a far right murderer's job for him.

I'm not feeling that in terms of the most sound and normal judgement.

Yeah. That's exactly what I said. Not a shred of hyperbole in your post.

You did claim that the attack was apolitical and false flag. You did claim you knew his manifesto. You told us not to act in a manner that would supplement the terrorist ideology. That's not hyperbole

You could claim the dinner/ hug thing was hyperbolic. But then IT CLEARLY WAS MEANT TO BE A JOKE. You're getting offended at what is clearly joke.

You know jokes, the thing you've been defending the whole time that leftists have been (over)reacting to on places like 4chan, calling them racist? This one wasn't even racist. Maybe that's why we can't recognize it as a joke

Marik2:
I still remember the guy having an alt right avatar during the wild west, and he would imply that he likes the idea of white nationalism.

I can't help but remember, for instance recently, the vigorous defence of the Charlottesville car killer as victim of a stitch-up, either - and that's just one example. What are we supposed to do? NOT draw likely conclusions?

Here Comes Tomorrow:
Yeah. That's exactly what I said. Not a shred of hyperbole in your post.

You'll have to forgive my light-hearted exaggeration. But the substance still remains that I found your analysis to be both slightly odd and highly dubious. You may feel the same about what I write, and that's your prerogative.

It's not like there's any compelling rationale you've supplied to claim "false flag", except maybe some reference to his manifesto containing internet memes. As for criticising the right... well, we kind of should criticise the sorts of rhetoric that directly or indirectly provides justification for mass murderers. I mean, let's not threaten to arbitrarily burn their houses down or anything, but we can't just leave them to it when they kill people either.

Seanchaidh:
"Subscribe to Pewdiepie": This terrorist attack underlines that this truly is the dumbest timeline.

That's the creepiest thing about this man, at the end of the day it was all a joke to him. His joke Manifesto and how we casually murders those people as he spews memes. Human life is about as precious to him as a shitpost and that's really fucked up.

Twitter is screaming at pewdiepie right now for inspiring alt right mentality and the shooter. All I remember from the guy was saying the N word at one point. Since when was he alt right white supremacist?

Agema:

Marik2:
I still remember the guy having an alt right avatar during the wild west, and he would imply that he likes the idea of white nationalism.

I can't help but remember, for instance recently, the vigorous defence of the Charlottesville car killer as victim of a stitch-up, either - and that's just one example. What are we supposed to do? NOT draw likely conclusions?

I'm sill waiting for him to come out of the closet as a gay alt right furry guy. It's fine if he's a white supremacist alt right person; just be honest with yourself Lunatic.

Marik2:
Twitter is screaming at pewdiepie right now for inspiring alt right mentality and the shooter. All I remember from the guy was saying the N word at one point. Since when was he alt right white supremacist?

He isn't. He had ben shapiro on and endorses the work of Jordan Peterson, so he can definitely be described as "right-leaning". One could even safely say that he could be a gateway into right-wing politics for some kids. But calling him a white nationalist is pretty absurd. People are just jumping on him here because he is a recognizable name, and it is easier to go after a scapegoat than addressing the shooter's actual ideology.

BreakfastMan:

Marik2:
Twitter is screaming at pewdiepie right now for inspiring alt right mentality and the shooter. All I remember from the guy was saying the N word at one point. Since when was he alt right white supremacist?

He isn't. He had ben shapiro on and endorses the work of Jordan Peterson, so he can definitely be described as "right-leaning". One could even safely say that he could be a gateway into right-wing politics for some kids. But calling him a white nationalist is pretty absurd. People are just jumping on him here because he is a recognizable name, and it is easier to go after a scapegoat than addressing the shooter's actual ideology.

Pewdiepie endorses Jordan Peterson? I don't see the guy as right winger or left(he doesn't like alt right or nazis). 99% of his stuff is pop psychology and the 1% is semi decent professor talk. The shooter just used pewdiepie to stir the media and it's working.

Marik2:

BreakfastMan:

Marik2:
Twitter is screaming at pewdiepie right now for inspiring alt right mentality and the shooter. All I remember from the guy was saying the N word at one point. Since when was he alt right white supremacist?

He isn't. He had ben shapiro on and endorses the work of Jordan Peterson, so he can definitely be described as "right-leaning". One could even safely say that he could be a gateway into right-wing politics for some kids. But calling him a white nationalist is pretty absurd. People are just jumping on him here because he is a recognizable name, and it is easier to go after a scapegoat than addressing the shooter's actual ideology.

Pewdiepie endorses Jordan Peterson? I don't see the guy as right winger or left(he doesn't like alt right or nazis). 99% of his stuff is pop psychology and the 1% is semi decent professor talk. The shooter just used pewdiepie to stir the media and it's working.

Peterson's opinions on the alt right are pointless when he's generally speaking directly to them with opinions they approve of.

Like I could say I don't enjoy clowns but if I did nothing but juggle, wear big red shoes and throw pies in people's faces my opinion on clowns might be suspect.

Marik2:

BreakfastMan:

Marik2:
Twitter is screaming at pewdiepie right now for inspiring alt right mentality and the shooter. All I remember from the guy was saying the N word at one point. Since when was he alt right white supremacist?

He isn't. He had ben shapiro on and endorses the work of Jordan Peterson, so he can definitely be described as "right-leaning". One could even safely say that he could be a gateway into right-wing politics for some kids. But calling him a white nationalist is pretty absurd. People are just jumping on him here because he is a recognizable name, and it is easier to go after a scapegoat than addressing the shooter's actual ideology.

Pewdiepie endorses Jordan Peterson? I don't see the guy as right winger or left(he doesn't like alt right or nazis). 99% of his stuff is pop psychology and the 1% is semi decent professor talk. The shooter just used pewdiepie to stir the media and it's working.

Oh, Jordan Peterson is definitely right wing when you dive into his stuff (though yeah, most of the world sees him as a self-help guru nowadays). Not hard right, but certainly not left wing in any sense. He is about as right-wing as Sargon of Akkad.

And I would imagine the media would already be stirred. It was a shooting that killed nearly 50 people, that tends to draw attention. He just gave them something to draw the focus away from white nationalism.

tf2godz:

Seanchaidh:
"Subscribe to Pewdiepie": This terrorist attack underlines that this truly is the dumbest timeline.

That's the creepiest thing about this man, at the end of the day it was all a joke to him. His joke Manifesto and how we casually murders those people as he spews memes. Human life is about as precious to him as a shitpost and that's really fucked up.

That's what gets me as well. It appears he did this not out of anger or hate but because he wanted to be amused. He killed all those people because he gets off on the reaction he could cause. His manifesto reads like a parody because it IS a fucking parody. This was/is funny to him. He wasn't striking a blow for what he delusionally thought was right or trying to commit suicide while hurting as many people as possible like most terrorists or mass shooters. He is like a kid killing an ant queen to watch the colony scramble about in mass confusion, except instead of squishing a bug he killed 49 people. 49 people are dead because this guy thought it would be funny to watch another media shitstorm. 49

Marik2:
Twitter is screaming at pewdiepie right now for inspiring alt right mentality and the shooter. All I remember from the guy was saying the N word at one point. Since when was he alt right white supremacist?

There's the whole 'death to jews' stunt thing, and during the whole subscribe push thing, he actively gave support and shout-outs to white nationalist youtubers. and the WWII memorial being defaced with 'subscribe to pewdiepie' as well.

For something slightly more positive: https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/christchurch-mosque-hero-tackled-gunman-and-grabbed-weapon-after-he-opened-fire/ar-BBUPaXN?ocid=spartandhp

Witnesses say someone literally charged this terrorist and stole his gun at Linwood. And it sounds like it saved lots of people. If true, give that guy a medal.

Windknight:

Marik2:
Twitter is screaming at pewdiepie right now for inspiring alt right mentality and the shooter. All I remember from the guy was saying the N word at one point. Since when was he alt right white supremacist?

There's the whole 'death to jews' stunt thing, and during the whole subscribe push thing, he actively gave support and shout-outs to white nationalist youtubers. and the WWII memorial being defaced with 'subscribe to pewdiepie' as well.

I didn't know about that. I guess he was trying to make jokes, but forgot that his audience are 5 year olds(literally and metaphorically) who unironically use him as a gateway for alt right.

The Lunatic:
I guess I just tend to think that a thread about 49 people getting killed isn't the place for "Le funny strawman".

Do we know they were killed by the shooter though?

Maybe they all had heartattacks from the shock of being shot..

evilthecat:

The Lunatic:
I guess I just tend to think that a thread about 49 people getting killed isn't the place for "Le funny strawman".

Do we know they were killed by the shooter though?

Maybe they all had heartattacks from the shock of being shot..

by a false flag (((attacker))) at that

Dreiko:

erttheking:

Dreiko:

Yes, so my point about that was that instead of outright closing them down, turning them into a site that you need an account to see the posts there in order to make them private would be preferable.

You then tried to say I was somehow all over the place and went on conflating pushing them underground (which is what I claimed your suggestion would lead to) to turning them private.

Think of it this way, if all it takes for a platform to be closed down is terrible people saying hateful stuff in there, you give the heckler's veto to the trolls and allow them to shut down practically anyone they want.

That?s....not logistically possible.

My bad, I misunderstood you, you clarified your position.

There?s a difference between platforms that get infiltrated by bad people and websites that are nesting grounds of hate. A big one.

From what I've seen, people try to inflate things to suit their agenda. Like the guy who shot the jewish temple. They always called him as a guy from Gab but he also had a facebook too. Twitter has a ton of alt right people there but it's not seen as "that alt right site" but Gab is.

Suffice it to say, I don't trust absolutely anyone to be even-handed in differentiating between which site is being infiltrated and which site is the breeding ground. I can see nothing but turmoil coming out of any attempt to categorize sites thus.

Gab was made by a Trump supporter FOR Trump supporters. Gab is viewed as right-wing because of their own marketing.

The Lunatic:

BreakfastMan:
I asked how your actual political beliefs differ. How do your actual political beliefs differ? Do you have any problem with ethnonationalist ideologies? With islamophobia?

There are plenty of ethnostates in the world. Many Islamic countries would meet the definition. I don't have any issue with these nations, it's merely a different culture. It's not my place to call for their dismantlement.

I think it's rational to have a degree of concern with the level of islamic terror that gets committed in the world. And the doctrines of islam itself are pretty eyebrow raising for a homosexual such as myself. I take issue with some of the things Islam preaches. But, there's also many of people who adopt a more moderate belief in Islam, as is the case with any religion.

You can oppose the evils of religions without shooting up their places of worship.

Christianity and Islam preach near identical things. Christianity just made the mistake of converting everyone mindlessly, so they got stuck with a bunch of relatively progressive Christians.

Agema:

I think what you (and Here Comes Tomorrow) are missing is that the far right have, for years, deliberately been adopting a tone of laddish banter and irony full of internet memes. It's the new way, advocated on far right sites, to convey far right ideas, because if you storm in with earnest metaphorical jackboots and Hitleresque demagoguery, everyone sighs and switches off immediately. It's probably also a reflection of the fact the far right has expanded in substantial part through shitpost internet boards.

In this sense, this goon is therefore likely a natural production of the new internet far right recruitment strategy; murderous hatred of different people couched in cheeky, lads bantz internet memes.

I'm not missing it, I just refuse to relinquish laddish banter to them. I will always refocus the discussion where it has to be instead of self-censoring. These people already took so many lives, they won't also get our rights too.

So what happened? Is he arrested? He is dead? Is he named and identified?

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