The Big Picture: Plothole Surfers

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I'll just throw some fuel on the fire here and say I *LOVE* The Last Jedi and after repeated viewings I think it my be my favorite, surpassing Empire.

And yes, I understand all of the structural issues and questions people have pointed out here, and I really don't care. Just as I don't care about the issues with Empire (Wait, there's an Emperor? Who is this guy? He was never mentioned in a New Hope! Hold on, when did Vader realize Luke was his long lost son? Why didn't he just use the force to prevent Luke from jumping? How does Luke just....escape from Hoth casually while the whole Empire is surrounding the planet/looking for him? Why the hell did the Empire just disable the Falcon's hyperdrive? Why not just DESTROY it if you're worried about Luke and company trying to escape? And don't even get me started on the Battle of Hoth...)

Exley97:
(Wait, there's an Emperor? Who is this guy? He was never mentioned in a New Hope!

He was, actually. There was a throwaway line by... either Tarkin or some other imperial officer about the Emperor having dissolved the senate.

leet_x1337:
Question:
If you had a choice between a game that's fun to play but has a story that you actively dislike and can't skip, or a game that's boring or not fun to play but has a story you enjoy, which one would you play?

Both

Fallout 4 has a really bad story - and its built into the gameplay in a painfully unskipable fashion - but the rest of the gameplay is really fun

Games like Spec Ops: The Line has intentionally meh gameplay, but a riveting story, to the point that the shitty cookie-cutter gameplay is actually an intentional part of the experience

My point is: you can get away flaws like that - if the other qualities of your product is good enough, and you're lucky enough that the bad qualities don't overshadow it

Good stuff, now on to the questions!

What video game system/video games do you currently have/are currently playing?

I've always wondered Bob, what is your favorite anime movie?

Through your videos Bob I've learned of the history of Hollywood, and in particular how the 70's was the era were movie studios tried risky ventures on movies deemed higher risks due to there not being any safe bets left in the movie business. This lead to one of the most creatively vibrant eras were auteur driven projects were the rule of the land, and films that would never have seen the light of day earlier were given the go-ahead. This due to Hollywood at large being slow at adapting to changing tastes.

I'm bringing this up because when I look over the Zero Punctuation reviews of this year I see an awful lot of indie games, i.e. games made by teams small enough that they can afford to take more risks and tackle less conventional material. Meanwhile as far as AAA-games go I am more reminded of loot box controversies and Ubisoft's "standard yearly releases" of good, but safe games. My question is thus:

Do you think we're we're about to see a major shift in what games get major push-back in awareness and marketing, similar to the movie business in the 70's?

Alternatively, if you think that question is to difficult to fit into your show format/too specific to be meaningfully answered:

How do you think indie games will affect/is affecting the video game business?

Edit: Thinking about it, feel free to reformulate the question whichever way you choose. The key component is that I'm curious if the 70's film scene can be reasonably compared to the present day indie game scene.

Question:

Considering the animations what is your favorite Batman movie?

While I mostly agree, it does nag me when I can't disceren any level of sense. Indiana Jones didn't know he needed to sit out Raisers, but it seems like Poe Dameron doesn't just do some stupid things, but undergoes a radical personality change because someone needed to be the idiot who started a mutiny. And it also seems like the reason this was done was to largely bring him back to who he was before. It'd be like Indiana Jones starring in a movie where he had to re-learn Nazis were bad or something.

Samtemdo8:
You prefer Kirk over Picard?

To me that's like choosing between my children.

And I have yet to see Deep Space 9 to see if Sisko can even compete.

If my children were Kirk and Picard, it'd be an easy one. Kirk is objectively better, based on the only logical criteria: I prefer him.

Question
What IP/media is surprisingly under-represented in Movies?

Sidenote: It is so weird to have logged in after not even visiting this site in such a long time. Welcome back, guys!

I know this is just personal opinion, and I fully agree that most nitpicking film criticism is pointless, pedantic over-intellectualizing, but I cannot get behind this being used as a defense of Star Wars VIII. I only watched the movie once, and I was just so constantly distracted by the bizarre physics, logic, plot progression, design choices, characterization and dialogue in the film.

- Why did the director decide that the opening dialogue of the movie should be a "Yo' mama" joke?
- Why did the director decide that the first action scene of the film should be a tech demo of a character's impregnable plot armor? He single-handedly destroys every point-defense turret on a massive capital ship using a single fighter? Why does the director spend the first 5 minutes driving home the fact that this character is invulnerable?
- Why did the director have the droid smash its face into a circuit board to keep the ship flying? Was that supposed to be funny? What did that slapstick routine add to the film?
- Why do bombs drop in space? Why do bombers in space send a payload DOWN?
- Why do 2 capital ships that are of completely different make and model have cruising speeds that are exactly the same? The entire 2nd and 3rd acts of the film takes place over 18 hours of in-universe time, where neither ship has eith erpulled away or gained on the other. Do they put governors on spaceships?
- How did the director decide that having characters zip in and out on 3 separate occasions would keep tension on this whole chase thing? How can I believe there is any risk to any character when they can all come and go freely?
- Why didn't they just park the space ship legally on the casino planet? Their entire breakout/chase scene was to get out of the galactic equivalent of jaywalking.
- why do the laser blasts arc in space like cannon balls? Why does the director seem utterly convinced that gravity works like that in space?
- Why does everyone seem so damn pleased with themselves at the end, when >300 of their friends are dead, and there are ~15 people left on a rinky-dink, 50+ year old shuttle? That was the story equivalent of watching a car crash kill 5 people, but then telling the audience to be happy because the paramedic gave the lone survivor a lollipop.
- Why is there still only a single recurring alien with a speaking role in 2 films? Why do these star wars movies not have any alien characters in them?
- Why is Holdo's main motive "follow orders unquestionably", when the bad guys are space-nazis? Wasn't that, like, the one lesson real-life nazis taught us, to question authority and not just blindly follow orders? Her entire character undermines any possible attempt at an anti-fascist message.
- Why did the director tease a better movie inside his movie? "The Sith, The Jedi, let it all die." Yes. You teased an actual narrative, thematic, and philosophical progression in Star Wars, and then threw it away to reenact the Battle of Hoth instead.
- "...........salt." -wut? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGILNrrruPk)

That's just the stuff I could think of off the top of my head. It was really a death by a thousand cuts for RotJ; I could hardly watch the movie because I just kept getting taken out by these bizarre decisions.

Q&A - What does Bob think the odds of "Mexican Superman" becoming a thing in the DC-CU?

It worked really well in "Justice League: Gods and Monsters", and Mexican-immigrant Superman speaks to the "American way" in 2018 about as much as being "just a poor corn farmer" in the 1930s. But I don't know how Hollywood's "old guard" execs would feel about that vs the potential profits and new blood it could bring in.

I would love to hear your take on that (largely in response to your recent big picture discussion of Black superman instead of Mexican superman).

If constant search for plotholes results in less movies as abhorrent as The Last Jedi (and make no mistake, the movie is a complete and utter pile of garbage), what are the drawbacks, again?

Q&A
You might be asked this A lot but I'm genuinely curious. Why did you come back to The Escapist? I assumed your YouTube career would've allowed what you do here and on your own terms.

Also what is your favorite videogame movie if you have one?

Samtemdo8:
Patrick's video became viral because of Mauler's 5 hour long stream criticising it:

Honestly to me this is gonna soon create precendent where everyone are gonna now criticize youtube critic's videos when it comes to movies and tv. Making video responses to other videos.

Not gonna lie. I hate those people. Mauler's 5 hour critique of The Last Jedi was the point of the video taken to its logical conclusion. Dishonored Wolf decided to not give his channel anything that makes him stand out other than making gay jokes about himself and Rags is just awful. I'm okay with people being unwavering in their views, but Rags is just condescending about it.

Windknight:

Samtemdo8:
Patrick's video became viral because of Mauler's 5 hour long stream criticising it:

Honestly to me this is gonna soon create precendent where everyone are gonna now criticize youtube critic's videos when it comes to movies and tv. Making video responses to other videos.

on the one hand I've never heard of this takedown till now, but I absolutely saw the 'shut up about plot holes' video. On the other hand

... 5 HOURS criticising a 13 minute video?

Five. Full. Hours. That's over TWENTY times as long as the thing their critiquing.

(disclaimer - not actually watched the video (again FIVE HOURS) so if they don't actually spend all that FIVE HOURS on on 13 minute video, feel free to mock me for jumping to conclusions)

Yeah I'm curious about that too; how do you need 300 minutes to break down 13 minutes? That's fucking insane.

Gordon_4:

Windknight:

Samtemdo8:
Patrick's video became viral because of Mauler's 5 hour long stream criticising it:

Honestly to me this is gonna soon create precendent where everyone are gonna now criticize youtube critic's videos when it comes to movies and tv. Making video responses to other videos.

on the one hand I've never heard of this takedown till now, but I absolutely saw the 'shut up about plot holes' video. On the other hand

... 5 HOURS criticising a 13 minute video?

Five. Full. Hours. That's over TWENTY times as long as the thing their critiquing.

(disclaimer - not actually watched the video (again FIVE HOURS) so if they don't actually spend all that FIVE HOURS on on 13 minute video, feel free to mock me for jumping to conclusions)

Yeah I?m curious about that too; how do you need 300 minutes to break down 13 minutes? That?s fucking insane.

This is their usual MO. I have not seen the video, but one thing these channels are infamous for is talking non-stop. Mauler is extremely nitpicky, Dishonored Wolf has a lot to say (to put it nicely). and Rags cuts people off halfway through each sentence. I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case

Gordon_4:

Windknight:

Samtemdo8:
Patrick's video became viral because of Mauler's 5 hour long stream criticising it:

Honestly to me this is gonna soon create precendent where everyone are gonna now criticize youtube critic's videos when it comes to movies and tv. Making video responses to other videos.

on the one hand I've never heard of this takedown till now, but I absolutely saw the 'shut up about plot holes' video. On the other hand

... 5 HOURS criticising a 13 minute video?

Five. Full. Hours. That's over TWENTY times as long as the thing their critiquing.

(disclaimer - not actually watched the video (again FIVE HOURS) so if they don't actually spend all that FIVE HOURS on on 13 minute video, feel free to mock me for jumping to conclusions)

Yeah I?m curious about that too; how do you need 300 minutes to break down 13 minutes? That?s fucking insane.

Well, it was two videos. One about 13:30 and another about 11:30. So, 25 minutes. Along with going over and breaking down a couple long comments from YourMovieSucks that were refuting the original video.

And, yes, 300 minutes. It was that shit of a pair of videos.

When you have to pause after almost every sentence because they're that ridiculous, it can prolong the process quite a bit.

But...yeah, long as all fuck. Had folks in the chat pointing that out constantly and they did too.

HazardousCube:

This is their usual MO. I have not seen the video, but one thing these channels are infamous for is talking non-stop. Mauler is extremely nitpicky, Dishonored Wolf has a lot to say (to put it nicely). and Rags cuts people off halfway through each sentence. I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case

Mauler actually did most of the interrupting, though I'm sure not intentionally. They all like to talk, so it just happens. Rags was pretty quiet/polite. Wolf sperged out a bit at the end when YMS was in the chat.

RealRT:
If constant search for plotholes results in less movies as abhorrent as The Last Jedi (and make no mistake, the movie is a complete and utter pile of garbage), what are the drawbacks, again?

Well, you see, movies that "push an agenda" will inherently have some "plotholes" and other gaps in logic, that would be doubleplusungood if those were to be pointed out by someone.

Something Amyss:
While I mostly agree, it does nag me when I can't disceren any level of sense. Indiana Jones didn't know he needed to sit out Raisers, but it seems like Poe Dameron doesn't just do some stupid things, but undergoes a radical personality change because someone needed to be the idiot who started a mutiny. And it also seems like the reason this was done was to largely bring him back to who he was before.

Its like watching Archer all over again.

It seems to me that the new trilogy fittingly has nothing new to offer. Frankly, the original films weren't the kind of in-depth intellectual powerhouses that warranted a trilogy of introspection, which is a polite way of putting it considering the blatent copy-paste. Battle of Hoth pt.2, new deathstar with a dumb weakness, leading jedi master sacrifices himself to distract the sith villain whom he formally taught and etc. The high camp archetypical moralising space western was never a particularly sophisticated story to begin with and the subversion card has already been played for Rogue One.

Fair enough to everyone that enjoyed it, I found both movies incredibly dull and somewhat insulting to my memory (the Luke fakeout especially, jesus. Should've gone all the way and had Kylo say "But now, I am the master!") but that's the infinite multiplicity of subjective opinion for you.

Well, I actually think that Beauty and the Beast remake is an interesting example here, because while yes, it does in fact try to fix some of the perceived 'plot holes' of the original, it's very hard to deny that it ended up in far worse shape because of it. In the words of Yahtzee: "Talk about side-stepping a pothole only to fall off a bridge." And yes, I would also like to point out that Disney didn't fix the one thematic issue that animated movie had: "I want adventure in the great wide somewhere," which is a throughline that doesn't really go anywhere. But there is the simple fact that the remake ended up being so messy is an interesting discussion about the current marketing strategy of Disney is playing it safe and angling for nostalgia dollars while also wanting to acknowledge the fanboys, but in order to properly do so, first you have to acknowledge what is wrong with said movie, which inevitably entails a discussion of the plotholes dug in order to collect the dirt to fill up the previous ones.

ineptelephant:
Its like watching Archer all over again.

"Do you want Sith? Because this is how you get Sith!"

It seems to me that the new trilogy fittingly has nothing new to offer. Frankly, the original films weren't the kind of in-depth intellectual powerhouses that warranted a trilogy of introspection, which is a polite way of putting it considering the blatent copy-paste. Battle of Hoth pt.2, new deathstar with a dumb weakness, leading jedi master sacrifices himself to distract the sith villain whom he formally taught and etc. The high camp archetypical moralising space western was never a particularly sophisticated story to begin with and the subversion card has already been played for Rogue One.

Fair enough to everyone that enjoyed it, I found both movies incredibly dull and somewhat insulting to my memory (the Luke fakeout especially, jesus. Should've gone all the way and had Kylo say "But now, I am the master!") but that's the infinite multiplicity of subjective opinion for you.

For the most part I'm fine with the shared beats. Lucas made it clear before the prequels even came out that the saga doesn't repeat, but it sure does rhyme. And by the time we get the crossed sabers before Senator Palpatine's face in a totally-not-foreshadowing moment, he'd really beaten that point to death.

It largely comes down to perspective, but I at least found the sequel trilogy to be fun so far. I could live without the dumb phone jokes, could really live without a casino planet side excursion, and think much of of the conflict in TLJ was driven by sheer stupidity, but at least I wasn't bored like I was during the prequels. Well, I mean, TLJ was too long for the content and desperately needed an edit and I checked my phone several times to see what time it was, and that still managed to be better than my response to AOC.

I don't know. I think part of it is just that I never had the same reverence for Star Wars a lot of fans seem to have. I grew up on them, but they were dumb fun space cowboys and samurai movies. I remember when I was five or six and saw the movies in revival and was blown away by the visual spectacle, the silly fun, and the visual spectacle.

But that's also kind of the thing: if I'm entertained, I'm far less likely to care about the dumb moments or the plot holes or just the cludgier moments of a movie. So when I'm paying attention to the cracks, it probably means I'm not entertained. And while I've watched TFA more times than I've watched the prequels combined, one viewing of TLJ gave me enough down time to really go "this is dumb," "this doesn't make sense," and "I want a porg." Okay, that lat one isn't really a bad thing.

And while none of that automatically equals plot holes, I do think it enters into the territory of "why people had problems with the movie."

So. Bob...

  • Approximately what percentage of your time these days is consumed creating Web content? I only ask because sometimes there were long gaps between movie reviews and episodes of In Bob We Trust, and I've mused to myself, "Well, dude probably has a day job..."
  • Does your current arrangement with The Escapist impose any time limits on your videos? Back in the day, your videos were all five minutes or less, presumably to control bandwidth/storage costs.
  • Gratuitous Tech-philia: What kind of A/V equipment do you use to make your videos?
  • I recently fired up the Really That Bad trilogy again (all four hours). Are you still glad you did it? Has the demon finally been purged from your psyche?
  • Have you thought about a series covering vintage TV shows? I'm thinking in particular of things like Space: 1999, UFO, The Prisoner, Voyage to The Bottom of The Sea, The Six Million Dollar Man, etc. Or is this more The Nostalgia Critic's territory?
  • Any chance of new episodes of The Game Overthinker? And on that note...
  • Flagrantly Gratuitous Self-Promotion: Have you by any chance seen this: https://youtu.be/lwniiqhux4g It's a "response video" to your Game Overthinker "Top Ten Consoles of All Time" video, addressing what I deemed a conspicuous omission...

Orekoya:
A lot of truth in this video. And for some reason Cinema Sins has rampant misogyny when it comes to writing their sins, with an almost active hatred of Scarlett Johansson in particular. Edit: Also remembered watching a video last year specifically about why Cinema Sins is bad in many different ways so gonna include this link for those that might wonder why people that series is trash.

I checked out of CinemaSins really early after their Avatar video contained the sentence "If Michelle Rodriguez were a women then I would fuck her"... and then gave the film a "Sin" for that... somehow.

If you like CinemaSin bashing I'd also suggest the following videos nitpicking the hell out of their videos with a kind of tired amusement that is way funnier than any of their videos have ever been.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qxgkOIsHUs

HI BOB!!!!! Long time listener, first time caller.... well not actually, but I'm happy to reactivate my account after 5 years to ask you this VERY important and timely question:

IF 'Buckaroo Bonzai' was rebooted, how would you fix it? Obviously, no one wants this to happen, because it would be destined for ruination by the Hollywood machinery BUT... how cool would it be if MOVIEBOB could be the architect behind a BUCKAROO BONZAI CINEMATIC UNIVERSE! What do you think Hollywood would get wrong, and how would you do it differently? I'd love to know who you'd cast, what direction the story might take, what tone the movies would have, who might get a spin-off movie... how many films could it sustain? How many 'phases' could the BBCU potentially go through? What sort of Twitter controversies might the cast and crew run up against?

Anyway, I spent the last three days trying to think of a great question and I'm hoping this will catch your attention. You're a voice of reason in these trying times, I'm glad Esc had the decency to reconsider publishing your work. It was some long awaited and much needed good news, not just for me I'm sure!

Your fan,
-BigNickOnTheDrum (youtube handle)

K12:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qxgkOIsHUs

Ugh. I just finally got that garbage out of my recs.

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