Extra Punctuation: Too Many Options in Skyrim

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Too Many Options in Skyrim

You can almost do too much in Skyrim.

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this sounds pedantic. just sayin.

I'm sure we've all accidentally become werewolves at one point in our lives.

I stand at the opposite end of the spectrum, i genuinely enjoy fucking about for 40 minutes before each game fiddling with sliders. Oblivion had more sliders...i resent Skyrim having less sliders! FEED MY SLIDER LUST

I'm sure we've all accidentally become werewolves at one point in our lives.

I became one just because theyd gone to so much effort - like theyd baked cookies that looked horrible and I had already eaten, but theyd be hurt if I didnt become a cat that could turn into a dog and kill people.

I just used the facial presets they have in there, didn't bother mucking about with sliders. Pick a face, pick a hairstlye, pick tats, go. Strangely, the male orc preset facial preset (the default one) reminds me of Vinnie Jones for some reason.

And yeah, you can totally level yourself into an early grave if you don't watch out. I think there's some obscure combat/non-combat line we're meant to level up with, but Bethesda forgot to tell us what it is. I say this because my stealth character quickly got mutilated by creatures he just couldn't cope with, whereas my combat focused characters have found the fights almost underpowered.

I like the write-ups where there is a clear point better. You never finished talking about skyrim having too much choice. Is it good? Is it bad? Now I'll never know because we got distracted by nose sliders.

I generally prefer facial presents. I preferred picking one of a dozen caricature heads in Rock Band than the slider overload in Guitar Hero World Tour.

I would like to pick a facial present in BioWare games but I find I don't like any of the presets. So, slider micromanagement it is. But it still doesn't make me happy--BioWare's character creation screen always has a black background and the first time you see your character's face against the much brighter and colourful game scenery, all your slider tweaking turns out to be for naught since their face looks completely different in the light. They must have received complaints about this since Dragon Age 2 lets you change your face if you have the Black Emporium DLC (though you still have to play with it, since it just takes you back to the black background). And The Old Republic's character creation screen has a bright, colourful example of game scenery for your slider tweaking.

If these games weren't so obsessed with photorealistic characters, and trying having more unique art styles, the face tweaking might not be such a big deal.

I gotta agree with your issue with the sliders. I'm not creative. I have no desire to try and recreate myself or danni devito in a video game. I am the person presets were made for and I'm sure the greater part of the RPG community hate me for my lack of originality. Let me pick a face and play the damn game.

Whatever happened to using a webcam to scan your own face into the game? That and being able to download celebrity lookalikes are the only good uses for this level of customisation.

Well that was odd. I get what he's talking about with the character creator but his experiences with the game and the reason he quit sound weird to me. Maybe he missed something he needed somehow?

I gotta agree with your issue with the sliders. I'm not creative. I have no desire to try and recreate myself or danni devito in a video game. I am the person presets were made for and I'm sure the greater part of the RPG community hate me for my lack of originality. Let me pick a face and play the damn game.

There are presets too, y'know. You can just pick one of those or use the default face if you don't care.

That's my problem with this article, too. You CAN just pick a preset; they don't MAKE you play with sliders. No one's forcing you to use any of the stuff in Skyrim; I didn't even do any quests until like level 16.

Personally, I love playing with the sliders! I wish every game (where you create a character at all) had a character creator as detailed as the ones found in SmackDown Vs. Raw games.

Kinda a shame you aren't playing it computer, Yahtzee! We've got and/or are/will [be] getting/got mods to fix all that within the past/coming month.

Cheers to you though, always fun reading your stuff--you're a brilliant writer!

I actually managed to turn a character's face inside out with the Oblivion creator. It was kind of terrifying.

Of all the things to complain about with this diseased game, why this?

When there's that many options for character generation it kind of sucks unless you have a guide. I'd love a FREE DLC full of look-alike famous figures pre-built.

I think this is a case where you could say "this is just not your type of game."

Seriously, nobody forces you to become a werewolf. I didn't. They offered me and with that werewolf standing next to you, as an example of what you would become, I friendly declined. It didn't fit my character to go down this path.

Also, the game auto-saves every time you enter a location. So you could just load from the auto-save just before you entered that location and enter it at a later stage.

And you don't have to spend 30 minutes worrying about how your character looks, that's what the presets are for. Pick a race, choose a preset you like, and you're done in two minutes.

You've got preset faces/bodies, you've got preset noses, etc., etc. You can choose whatever preset you like and you CAN, not must, fiddle around with all the sliders. I was a female Wood Elf, and I just created a male Nord, and he looks extremely bad-ass. Misses one eye with scars around it, war paint around the eyes, epic beard, wearing iron armor without a helmet.

Should they ban helmets? Kill all the sliders?

I thought you supported 'let the player fuck around' not 'let the developers create a movie that unfortunately involves a player'. If you want an ugly face, create an ugly face. If you want a preset face and cover it with a helmet, do it. If you want to see your face, do not wear a helmet.

What you said;
These flaws are part of the attraction. It gives the games a sense of loveable experimental fun that later, snobbier games lacked. It felt more like the developers and players working together to create the playing experience rather than developers looking down on players as troublesome elements in the game that have to be herded into line.

What you say now;
It goes back to what I was saying last week, that even in a game as open as Skyrim, a certain amount of control has to be maintained to keep the game's overall tone at an appropriate level. And it feels that anyone who doesn't just use the character creation tool to make a relatable, average-faced heroic type is just going to take the piss and try to see how ridiculous they can make themselves look.

I actually kind of preferred the Ultima thing where you chose from six or seven predetermined hero appearances of varying genetic backgrounds. Because that's at least a directed experience.

Creating the most ugliest faces possible is not loveable experimental fun?
The developer predetermining faces to prevent people from having retarded faces (that you can cover with a helmet) is not 'herding players into line'?

What you said;
Which is fair enough, I suppose, but these pseudo-cutscenes never bothered me too much. Why? Because I was free to act like a jerk. Mess with people's ornaments, throw boxes at them, stand on top of things they're trying to use. And this made their scripted actions all the more entertaining as they now had an undercurrent of desperation as they determinedly ignored the fact that you were discharging firearms into the wall right next to their head.

Even better are the games that make an effort to call you out on this sort of behaviour.

What you say;
And it feels that anyone who doesn't just use the character creation tool to make a relatable, average-faced heroic type is just going to take the piss and try to see how ridiculous they can make themselves look. And if they end up really getting into the game they're going to feel pretty silly when Lord Thunderclave is entreating Fishlips McGee to aid their struggle against the dark ones.

Fucking around in Half-Life, throwing around stuff, looking silly, nearly shooting the people around you=entertaining! Even better; if NPC's call you out on it!

Making fun of Skyrim's conversation with your ugly head=silly, ruining the atmosphere and we shouldn't be allowed to make ugly faces?

Yahtzee, what happened to you!?

I don't use the sliders much myself but I like having the option should the mood strike me. I do wish there was a second chance at the end of the tutorial to make any changes though, in case my facial changes look ridiculous in different lighting.

As for your dungeon problem, if you're using a shield Quick Reflexes is mandatory. Slows down time considerably and lets you bash an enemy or side-step their power attacks and do some heavy damage. I'm using a fast, runny, jumpy character with a dagger and this still helped me out of many an unfair fight, and looks awesome!

Wait...how was this about Skyrim having too many options? You talked about being inducted into various Guilds, but joining is a multi-step process. If you want to join the Dark Brotherhood, you have to willingly go along with a mistaken-identity thing and murder someone. If you want to join the Thieves Guild, you have to go through a short 'initiation' and then fight your way through a hobo-infested sewer.

And Jesus, man, how is the werewolf thing is a problem? You're never forced to transform, and the only 'downside' is the loss of a minor and temporary XP gain bonus when you rest in an owned bed. And by that point, it's pretty damn obvious what's about to happen: you find out that the Circle is composed of werewolves, and the guy who considers lycanthropy a blessing has invited you to a ceremony to inducted you into the Circle. What did you think was about to happen? They were just going to give you honorary werewolf status?

The character customization argument is pretty weak, too. Plenty of armor has full-face helmets, yes...but if you don't like that, just wear a hood or something. Hell, I always gave my Battlemage a mana-boosting hood until I got to Ebony and Daedric gear and upped my enchanting skill enough to give them similar enchantments.

And there are presets for each race. Quite a lot of them, too. So does that mean you're just complaining that you can customize your character?

I'm a bit worried about that Saints Row comment, though. Yes, they give you a bunch of voices to choose from, but really? You want to be able to adjust the pitch? They didn't just take one voice and electronically modify it. Each of those is its own voice actor. Any in-game tool that lets you manually adjust how the voice sounds isn't going to make it so you can take the cockney accent and make it region-specific. All it's going to do is push it in the direction of a tape-player with a dying battery (ie, slow and retarded) or the inexplicably-famous Fred (ie, fast and retarded).

C'mon, Yahtzee. If you can't muster good complaints, just focus on making the article funny. This is just boring in the same way that the 'Space Marine' article was just annoying. We're more than happy to listen to you say why you hate something, but for the love of Christ, say it like you're having fun doing it.

Yahtzee Croshaw:
I mean, Saints Row has you pick from six different voice packs but you don't micro-manage the pitch and waver or pinpoint the global region the accent comes from. Not yet, anyway. Consider a patch, Volition.

And then the character I play can look AND sound exactly like Dr Girlfriend. Now (and in the last game) I was just hacking it buy with the dude's cockney accent. It's just not throaty enough.

I actually like playing with all the sliders in these games. They usually have a "randomizer" selection and/or presets in case you don't want to fumble around with it...even Sims has that.

I like what Saints Row Third did with it: turn it into a social network game with the demo. Did you look at some of the things people uploaded? You should, there were a couple of good mock-ups of you too.

I've often wondered why they bother to put a lot of options into character creation for a one-player game. For a multi-player game, especially an MMO, it makes sense, because the main purpose of creating a unique character all your own is to show it off to others. But in a single player game, all you're showing it off to is yourself (unless you like to stream your playing sessions or create Youtube vids.)

"I had enough problems with my horse stealing my kills", Yahtzee Croshaw.

I'm going to express my thoughts as eloquently as I am capable, through the art form of the meme: Yahtzee uses to make valid complaints, but then he took an arrow in the knee.

I think sliders with presets is the best way. I can't deal with cheekbone sliders and whenever I start messing with them I end up playing a game of ME2 where the sisters keep coming in and asking me why Shepard's so ugly. But for people who can use them I'm sure it's something they really enjoy doing.

My "hero" looks like a retard. Luckily I'm on PC and might be spending an hour redoing it thanks to console commands.

And yeah I think presets are great, but having sliders is fine too. As long as there's a selection of maybe 10-20 faces for each sex of each race.

Also, conjuration - pretty sure you can only have 2 at a time max? Or is it 2 atronachs AND 2 zombies? If that's the case I really need to reread the fine print... that, or you know, experiment.

Changing your voice in a game most definitely has to be limited, especially in Saints Row, which had just enough funding to have enough options in cathartic slaughter and voice changing (by the way, I went Russian woman with the voice since Zombie got old in a minute and Cockney man is too popular).

I like such preset options in games. For example, Guild Wars gave you a few base character setups but let you change the skin color, hairstyle, or whatever anyways.

Totally agree with you about the sliders. It wasn't as bad as in Oblivion (I actually got bored after spending 40 minutes trying to make a good face in Oblivion and didn't pick up the game again for a week or so lol) but it's still a big hassle. Would it be so hard to have 3 sliders instead of 40 (or putting in 3 major sliders that affects everything and having the other sliders there to change slight details for the obsessive compulsive) to customize yourself from the presets, so you can actually finish it within 10 minutes instead of an hour?

Good presets that look like they were done by a professional would be nice too, instead of presets that look like they were made by random number generators.

If you're trying for a tight role playing experience there's definitely too much for any one character to accomplish. With the various guilds all needing saving I've found out that I'm not only the dragonborn of legend but I'm also the x of about 6 or 7 others as well.

I think when it comes to the guilds at least that once you've joined one or two the others should be closed off for you, I'm currently the top dog in the Mages College, the Theieves Guild, The Dark Brotherhood and the Companions and am expected to take my place by the various Daedric prince the groups worship's side on death. I feel like a whore pledging myself to Sithis, Hiricine and Nocturnal as well as all the others.

I've sometimes tried to get into the swing of things by giving my character high cheekbones, wide staring eyes and a mouth with a permanent half-smile because that's the kind of face I imagine a cockney psychopath would have

He's not wrong about the cockney psycopath look.

I can't say I really agree with the character customisation spiel. I love making my character look the way I want! Even to the point where I will coordinate my armour, (I've been known to collect/carry/horde different matching sets for different purposes,) and even disregard helmets so I can still see my creation! I guess I played the Sims too much as a kid! :P

You're argument did remind me, however, of the start of Neverwinter Nights. The simple character creation there allowed you to attach tattoos to your characters body, even though all armour hid it, and there was no class that actually benefited by being topless/practically naked so you could see them. (Unless I just never found that perk...!?) Same thing pretty much happened in Fable... All those body tattoos that you hid under your shirt/blouse! And if it was evil or good the people would act accordingly, like they could actually see it!
On Neverwinter Nights again, you had to also choose a starting style of clothes! The first time I played I spent ages choosing the style, and colours, only to walk 20m from the starting point and picking up my first leather armour set, causing me to never wear the starting clothes again! WHAT WAS THE POINT! :P

If you don't like the massive amount of customization, don't use it. I on the other hand and many others love it.

Well, I always hit the random button until something half decent comes out, then go don that epic looking full face helm

I don't think he dislikes the customization. Sounds like he dislikes the lack of focus or purpose for it, that its only influence on the game (or the game's influence on it) ends when you're done with the customization.

yea that slider thing is half useless, I purposely avoid wearing helmets (or at least, just a circlet). I find it kinda odd how Beth cant include a invisible helmet option in there single player with a deep slider customising system, but Blizzard have it in WoW, and that game has face options so few you can almost count them on your two hands, and all pre set.

In Grand Knights History you can actually manage the pitch of your characters' voice

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