The Big Picture: Mutants and Masses Pages PREV 1 . . . 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 NEXT | |
This is something that should be said as to art argument. And a bit more from me. I know that games can be art, no discussion there I feel. They simply can be created as such, and be played in an art gallery, why not? All it takes is someone with idea, skill, and passion. Established name in the art circles would be nice. After Duchamp created Fountain it's hard to say that anything can't be art. Or maybe anyone could say that games are less of an art than a toilet made in a factory? This really does not involve Mass Effect because even if it's a great series of games it's not an art, it wasn't made as such and it's not a problem. Just like Shawshank Redemption is a great movie without having ambition of being art. As to the other side of the argument. For me raising money for charity to get the attention for something is nearly never a bad thing. Saying on the forums that you do not like something and you think that it should be change too, but here starts a problem. The thing that should be remembered is form. No one will listen to someone shouting, and whining no matter if he is right or wrong. I understand, the reaction is purely emotional, but it makes all of it tiering and childish. One post after just finishing the game is fine, but treating it with the same level of emotions a week later doesn't look good, and affects how people see this movement from outside. Not to mention that "retake" is really poor name choice. Last but not least, Bob I understand that as a game publicist it's hard for you not to say anything on controversy that big, but when you talk about something you do not know enough about you're loosing you're credibility. Most of the time you where wise to avoid such a topics and might be irritating to have to read through all of this whining, to stay in touch for the shows, even though you do not understand what all the fuss is about. But when you comment you honestly seem not to know what all the fuss is about. And mentioning you do not know this ending in the video does not help, just sounds unprofessional and it's hard to say for me, because I really like you;re shows. PS: Sorry for possible mistakes, English is not my native language. | |
Moviebob is not only a soldout like all the bloggers who get paid to write serious shit about games and stuff (and who happens to forget what does it mean to be a gamer in the first place). He is even boring. A lot. At least Yathzee is a funny and smart soldout. If he would have cared to play the game or to make some research about what's really happening before attacking and offending the vast majority of Bioware's active fanbase, I would have respected him no matter his position or his words. Considering that he has done nothing of the above since he was too busy playing Kirby, it's even pointless to post a rebuttal or to try to inform him or to gave him a wider view about what fans are actually saying, so we could start a possible dialogue. Wich is ironic for something called "the big picture". At the end, he perfectly knows that games stories are not art and that a writer that want to make real art, will never write for videogames or TV series. Videogames stories are subjected to any kind of evaluation and compromise and as you point out, we are talking of corporate stuff like focus group and the like. Marketing have a big impact on game stories: in DA2 they cut the origins feature becase it's easier to market a game with a single protagonist and because it was too expensive to voice more than one protagonist. Where's the art in that? I mean: does Moviebob knows that the lead writer of ME3 changed the ending that was prepared for the two previous games by the former lead writer? There's no Cormac Mc Carty in the gaming business. There's no place for real art in the corporate business. But Moviebob allready knows that. As he knows that ME3 endings are a vulgar plagiarims of Deus Ex and Matrix Revolution. Where's the "artistic integrity" in plagiarism? I mean, if I remember correctly they even copied the colors of the original Deus Ex endings. So why he does not aknowledge those things? Becuase he is a soldout. Becuase he is not in good faith. Because he thinks that only critics have the right to question game developers and he fears that if gamers step up and demands quality and respect above all, there will be no more place for the like of him. | |
If broken promises entitled anyone to anything, Molyneux would've been out of business with the release of Black & White 2/any of the Fable games. Please, don't assume you deserve special treatment just because Bioware managed to string you along for a full series before shitting in your bed. | |
Hello MovieBOB, I don't think you'll ever read this, but I have to say it anyways (for my own sake) Imagine General Motors is launching a new car. The car is highly advertised and all of its features are presented. You find out that the car is powerful, safe, extremely efficient and is 100% electric. They constantly advertise that this car can go toe to toe with any SUV and that it holds its own. You get super excited, and you make an advanced payment for the car. The launch day comes and you get your new beauty and you start to test-drive it. It runs smoothly, it's beautiful, it's superb, it's everything you hoped for and you instantly fall in love with your new car. This is exactly how we feel about the Mass Effect ending. We're not upset because the ending is a pile of garbage that was clearly written by someone who never read any of the game scripts, we're upset because we were lied to. The marketing of this game in the last 5 years bombarded us with the notion that the player will be an active element in this space adventure. We were told over and over again that our input in the game mattered in the end and that we would essentially be an active writer in our own experience. And the product we got is just not what they promised us. We feel conned. The main feature is just not there, the car we bought is not 100% electric, it needs gas, and that has a huge impact on the maintenance costs. Mass Effect's ending has destroyed any replayability value the game could have had. And for some of us, this feature was the only reason we bought the game in the first place. I can't afford to buy a game for 60 Euros that I'm going to finish in 20 hours and never want to see ever again, this was an investment that was suppose to keep me entertained for at least 60 hours. Thanks for reading | |
Mass Effect has no idea what it wants to be. The narrative is the elephant in the room. The exposition, choppy delivery, and sad last minute work around to cover for the Collectors Edition and DLC, that they didn't have, cost time, so yes they cut content, to sell it back to you as DLC. Screwing about and trying to be Meta and Arts'i blew the focus... which was to make a game. This awkwardness culminates with the player finally getting to the arse-end of the elephant. Tickle it's nuts... while you stare into it's gaping abyss... No you have to tickle it's nuts. Get three colors - in your face. That's choice you can take to the bank. :D The ending is incoherent because the game is incoherent, because it wanted to be something other than a game. It wanted to be a philosophy paper. It did both, and it did both poorly. There is no "Re-take" coming, there is no DLC that fixes it, because if there was, they wouldn't of cut the DLC in the game now, from the game, to have sold BACK to you as DLC. You bought a philosophy paper, under the pretense it was a game, behind the guise that it is art, for the sole purpose of flipping a buck. | |
Bob just does shit like that, he doesn't like first person games or macho stuff, and because of that tried to say Halo was evil by saying it had Nazi undertones to it. Every time I have seen Bob dislike something, he pics the most manipulative way of expressing it. | |
Bobs polemic on outraged fanboys... this is the same guy that had me sit though about 4 videos of his about Green Lantern right ? . . . | |
Hey bob, I'mma just gonna leave this here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MlatxLP-xs FALL UPON THE PLINKETT SWORD | |
^ this | |
I'm probably late to this thread, but it's late and I'm generally exhausted by all the nerdrage, so I'm gonna keep it short and snarky. "Wah, somebody promised me something good and it turned out to not be as amazing as I expected it to be! Pander to me!" I will take my ban now please. | |
Reposted for great justice! | |
Wow, 460+ replies of what I'm sure is a completely mature and respectful conversation. Whatever, I don't care if they are aliens. If it's a good movie nothing else matters. The REAL best part of Bay's statement was that "they will be tough, edgy, funny and memorable[sic]" line. Good luck with that. | |
Because, even after the 90's, EVERYTHING MUST BE EDGY. | |
Dude.... "You cannot show that! Show this instead!". That you Have black bars and pixilation in your mind when you think censuring, but this is no different than removing the the ending. As for the ownership. I suggest you reread your post and think about how utterly ridicules everything you just said is. | |
That is a different problem all together. Also: | |
TMNT as aliens? Hmmm. Kinda weird, but hey, I'll watch it - the original origin story isn't exactly a hyper-realistic affair either. Besides, I'll have no problem stomaching a strange origin story if the characters are actually somewhat true to their comic counterparts and don't suck design-wise. After all, Watchmen (the movie) worked out just fine even though What I'm most concerned about regarding Bay's TMNT is the almost inevitable involvement of unbearably hackneyed human sidekicks. ME3... *draws huge breath* ... ... Teehee, just kidding. Not touching that debate with a 10-foot pole. | |
I hope I am the only one who isn't going to point out the obvious. Your little speech about not complaining about the new TMNT movie - regardless of what bay does - is kind of a deceptive show to put on for us, especially since you have spent your 'Movie Bob' career complaining about the artistic directions people take in the terrible movies they make. I recall you being especially upset with Transformers, another Bay movie. So if I understand your logic right, it is ok for one person to stand on a soapbox and essentially 'bitch & wine'(as you put it) about the things they don't like. However, when everyone else does it at once, that's totally not cool and we should be ashamed for impeding the creativity of the media. I am not really getting were you are coming from at this point. Unfortunately for videogames, being recognized as art doesn't exclude them from criticism. If anything, being recognized as art opens an even bigger door to critique then ever before. When people pay for art (like say... a bad movie) they have every right to bitch about it not living up to expectations, particularly if it was outright insulting as well. If anything, the ME3 debacle has proven Videogames are a form of art, because the complaints here are comparable to the complaints against George Lucas' "art". Does this mean if we complain we are entitled? No. | |
Molyneux has been breaking promises since Fable 1. He didn't make Fable and Fable II 2 of the most beloved games of this generation before pissing on his fans. | |
Ask Sherlock Holmes fans that caused us to get several literary classics that, without fans "forcing" the writer to, we never would have gotten.
Please get over yourself and your fanboyism for a company that made bad decisions, and go live in a country that actually practices censorship for, say, a year. When you come back (probably after some prison time), make sure to apologize properly for what you said here. :)
Actually, you're the only one asking for someone to get special treatment. In your case, you want videogame companies to get special treatment by your weird demand for them to be excempt from what EVERY OTHER COMPANY faces. Fans here are actually waking up and noticing that, as customers, they have some pretty basic rights, including returning products that did not meet the advertized standards, and/or demanding a fix to the problem. It's that simple. Videogame companies are no special snowflakes. Deal with it. | |
Hey, I said:
Didn't say I remembered either ;) Don't try saying that fans of Mass Effect don't have a right to be disappointed by the ending and want a new one. How many movies have changed their endings after test screenings where people didn't like it. Hell, I know a few movies you've reviewed that had their endings changed. Should fans be able to demand one? Yeah. Should they demand one? Probably not because demanding for things is rude. The only reason you won't get why a lot of people want a new ending is because you're not a fan of the series, you're not emotionally attached to a lot of the characters like a lot of fans of the series. It's not so much the ending (though there are huge problems with it like the lack of sense it makes with the rest of the game even) but the lack of closure the game has is why a lot of fans don't like it and want a new ending/closure. It'd be like if a TV show got cancelled right before the last episode was aired but they tried cutting together a few scenes from it in the penultimate to make it seem like that was the end of the series. People want to see that ending so they get answers for the questions that are now lingering on their minds. But what do I know? I'm only a writer who has learnt how to structure things and plan things out like not suddenly shifting tone for the last couple of minutes of something and always have closure on your story if you've been making out into a long series and not do a Gainax Ending. | |
OK Bob fair enough, it's true no-one other than Bioware has the creative rights to ME3. However I'd like to clarify that I didn't dislike the mass Effect 3 ending because of what happened in the ending. But because it was poorly explained, badly written, and some of the material was somewhat invalidating to certain characters. IT was a sudden and admittedly disappointing slip in quality in a game that I was very invested in up to that point. | |
Maybe if more Movie-fans "whined and bitched" about the substandard products that they are sold, the Movie-industrie would start making better movies? | |
This is quality, thanks for this post. It pretty much hits the nail on the head. | |
EA is developer cancer. Bio ware died a little before they released dragon age 2. | |
I get the feeling Bob is joining the group of people who only seem to focus on the more passionate people in the movement rather than looking into the people who have made calm and reasoned points. I thought he was above all that, but i guess not. | |
Just because the guy is a Wanker doesn't mean he's wrong Bob... ok he's wrong up until time index ~5 minutes but everything after that about right on... no actually its all right, I just agree with you that he's got a bad tone... like some of the videos someone else puts forth from time to time. This is longer (and I have already posted it with a I'mma just gonna leave this here) but is a much better explanations of why the endings void the claim, not the controversy around it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MlatxLP-xs Its done in the style of a Plinkett review! Ya know, those awesome reviews you told us to go watch?... I watched bob, I WATCHED AND AM NOW THE MONSTER YOU HELPED CREATE! | |
Yea you fucking cry-babies need to stfu about Mass Effects ending already. If I had any interest in playing that piece of shit game now it wouldn't be worth it because I already know the ending from hearing it from the mouths of the whiniest bunch of entitled babies ever. It's a game. Get over it, move on and play something else. On a different note, thanks Bob, you reminded me that there are better things to look forward to. GAME OF THRONES ON SUNDAY!!! | |
If video games and movies are in any way comparable then mass effect is like john carter in terms of quality alone. Unlike John carter Mass Effect found it's material elsewhere but overall was good but in some places slow and could have been so much better. Well the ending anyway | |
hey this was pretty good, decent homage to Plinkett too | |
im with you on this one. srsly, like they're the chairman of the ESRB or something like that. stuff like this makes me wish we had other planets like earth to go to so i could be like "i'm leaving, PEACE!" and then actually leave. | |
Probably too many comments to get Bob to read this, but I'll try anyway. Bob, you need to stop giving internet outcry any importance. It is very easy to show that the loudest, stupidest, angriest people are the ones that will be the easiest to hear and the most likely to make themselves heard. It quickly follows that any outrage on the internet is of little value. You making many episodes about such outrage, just fuels these kind of people in their feelings of importance and entitlement. Of course not strongly, but you are definitely part of the bigger machine that keeps building up such hypes. We see the exact same thing in politics and it is completely ruining it, please let greater minds prevail. | |
Here's the difference between movie endings and video game endings, Bob: Games are an interactive media! I can't stress that enough; the reason people are demanding a new ending are due to the consumer's right to be told the truth when it comes to their endings and not blatantly lie to them & berating them for not agreeing with their opinions. Not to mention blocking anything that doesn't agree with the ending as well as a Bioware writer allegedly speaking out about how the ending itself was not well received within the group because the lead writer and Casey Hudson did it by themselves with no one to proof read. What really disturbs me is the fact that Bob views us as a group that didn't like the ending, so we're petitioning it. No, that'd be idiotic. We're hating the ending because it throws every decision, every conversation, every shared moment, every hard earned level, every major aspect of the games out the window in a matter of ten minutes. As I said, games are interactive and are allowed have changed endings because of DLC. That's the big difference: D.L.C. You can't have a movie or a book completely rewritten because once those two are released, a new version won't come out unless it's a director's cut in the movie's case. DLC can allow for a new possible ending or clarification, which is ultimately what we want. We'd go as far as to settle for a fucking text scroll. When your game series, one that you've invested over 100+ hours in, decides to hamfist a new ending out of nowhere & completely ruin both the lore & not tell you anything of what happened after the events, you have every right to complain. Filing a complaint? No, that's going too far. Petition? Sure, why not. | |
Yes. Extensively re-cutting highlander 2 the quickening to remove the alien subplot and please fans did indeed destroy film making as an art form. I for one am glad that radio plays and flower arranging still exist as pure creative art. That aside, I have to laugh when people talk about how if this happens then game companies will no longer be willing to take creative risks, or that people like mass effect because it takes creative risks because... (Alert, I'm not going to annoy a lot of mass effect fans who I'm on the same side as. I like the game too, and I think it's well told, has a good aesthetic and is over all pretty neat) Mass Effect took almost no creative risks what so ever. There is almost nothing original in the whole series in terms of the actual lore/background/characterization. Just as an example: in Mass Effect 1 the plot is that you, an Earth Force Officer, chase a rogue romulan agent and his army of cylons controlled by an Inhibitor and try to stop them from using Babylon 5 to bring back all the other inhibitors to destroy sapient life. My companions include Dirty Harry, a barbarian guy who's not so barbarous, and someone from the Battle Star Galatica fleet. Along the way I fight the bugs from Starship Troopers. In Mass Effect 2, I join section 31/Majestic 12 (from Deus Ex) in their quest to stop the aliens from X-com (this is a bit more disguised, but energy weapons, abductions and they have their digestive systems replaced by cybernetics? That's X-com) from abducting humans in order to build a giant terminator. The most creative races in it are the Elchor, who don't do anything, and the Asari, who are a pretty standard oldest younger race (like the Minbari) but subverted a bit (Illium is basically meant to undermine the usual ideas about such species, similarly Liara is a centuries old schoolgirl at least in ME1.) and given sexiness as a superpower. The Mass Effect series is so derivative that it often feels like it was created using TV Tropes. People don't like it because it took creative risks, they like it for the opposite reason. It took a bunch of things they already liked and knew and polished them up with some fantastic art direction and some rather cool detailing, and wove them together into a narrative. It's the same appeal as say, megacrossover fanfiction, just professionally done. | |
This whole thing has gone completely insane. People think Sonic fans are insane, this whole Mass Effect 3 outrage doesn't even compare. | |
Mass Effect 3 fans: We were promised a dynamic, non-standard ending and it turns out we were lied to! Sonic Fans: His EYES are the wrong colour! ...Yeah, it doesn't compare. But not for the reasons you're purporting. | |
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