This is something that should be said as to art argument.
http://www.gamefront.com/why-changing-mass-effects-ending-wont-compromise-art/2/

And a bit more from me. I know that games can be art, no discussion there I feel. They simply can be created as such, and be played in an art gallery, why not? All it takes is someone with idea, skill, and passion. Established name in the art circles would be nice. After Duchamp created Fountain it's hard to say that anything can't be art. Or maybe anyone could say that games are less of an art than a toilet made in a factory?
That rises a question. Would another uninspired shooter, or changing an ending to not artistic game hinder this artistic potential in any way shape or form? Of course not. Just as making a crate out of wood does not make any sculpture made from this material less of an art. And stupid, sloppy movie does not destroy credibility of Lars von Trier. Thinking that something like this could in terms of games is the thing that really can harm artistic ambition of other games. Just because in other medium they don't have to carry the baggage of bad practices of they're medium, and in games we seem to make them do that. Mainly because we want them to uplift the whole medium, which is I feel a mistake. They will do it either way if we let them.
It is one of the symptoms of medium immaturity (which is nothing wrong in itself really, it is young) and still searching for respect in older media, which sounds at times like a fourteen year old saying he's adult. We can't show others that games are fully mature medium, we have to and it can't be rushed. We simply have to wait until we simply will be such.

This really does not involve Mass Effect because even if it's a great series of games it's not an art, it wasn't made as such and it's not a problem. Just like Shawshank Redemption is a great movie without having ambition of being art.
And there is bigger problem, there are quite big mistakes, and errors in this ending. Mentioned so many times in here that let me not list it one more time. Here is a good article about it. Defending this with an argument of "art" is like saying that painter should not change anything in his painting even though while in hurry he by used ketchup instead of red paint by mistake and had no time to fix it. Such a change would not shatter he's artistic integrity. Don't get me wrong artistic integrity is important, but it's not a default, especially in projects that costs big amounts of money. There are producers and publishers messing with it all the time.

As to the other side of the argument. For me raising money for charity to get the attention for something is nearly never a bad thing. Saying on the forums that you do not like something and you think that it should be change too, but here starts a problem. The thing that should be remembered is form. No one will listen to someone shouting, and whining no matter if he is right or wrong. I understand, the reaction is purely emotional, but it makes all of it tiering and childish. One post after just finishing the game is fine, but treating it with the same level of emotions a week later doesn't look good, and affects how people see this movement from outside. Not to mention that "retake" is really poor name choice.

Last but not least, Bob I understand that as a game publicist it's hard for you not to say anything on controversy that big, but when you talk about something you do not know enough about you're loosing you're credibility. Most of the time you where wise to avoid such a topics and might be irritating to have to read through all of this whining, to stay in touch for the shows, even though you do not understand what all the fuss is about. But when you comment you honestly seem not to know what all the fuss is about. And mentioning you do not know this ending in the video does not help, just sounds unprofessional and it's hard to say for me, because I really like you;re shows.
It's just a delicate, still hot discussion and it has to be treated with good understanding of it's roots.

PS: Sorry for possible mistakes, English is not my native language.

luckshot:
so naturally bob is against movie test screenings that can result in changes to movies right, because that would be changing art.

you've been missing the point for a while. go read some of the things the game makers promised pre release then watch the ending

Moviebob is not only a soldout like all the bloggers who get paid to write serious shit about games and stuff (and who happens to forget what does it mean to be a gamer in the first place). He is even boring. A lot. At least Yathzee is a funny and smart soldout. If he would have cared to play the game or to make some research about what's really happening before attacking and offending the vast majority of Bioware's active fanbase, I would have respected him no matter his position or his words.

Considering that he has done nothing of the above since he was too busy playing Kirby, it's even pointless to post a rebuttal or to try to inform him or to gave him a wider view about what fans are actually saying, so we could start a possible dialogue. Wich is ironic for something called "the big picture".

At the end, he perfectly knows that games stories are not art and that a writer that want to make real art, will never write for videogames or TV series. Videogames stories are subjected to any kind of evaluation and compromise and as you point out, we are talking of corporate stuff like focus group and the like. Marketing have a big impact on game stories: in DA2 they cut the origins feature becase it's easier to market a game with a single protagonist and because it was too expensive to voice more than one protagonist. Where's the art in that?

I mean: does Moviebob knows that the lead writer of ME3 changed the ending that was prepared for the two previous games by the former lead writer?

There's no Cormac Mc Carty in the gaming business. There's no place for real art in the corporate business. But Moviebob allready knows that. As he knows that ME3 endings are a vulgar plagiarims of Deus Ex and Matrix Revolution. Where's the "artistic integrity" in plagiarism? I mean, if I remember correctly they even copied the colors of the original Deus Ex endings. So why he does not aknowledge those things? Becuase he is a soldout. Becuase he is not in good faith. Because he thinks that only critics have the right to question game developers and he fears that if gamers step up and demands quality and respect above all, there will be no more place for the like of him.

RoseArch:

2) The Mass Effect 3 ending was NOT what was promised to the fans. BioWare promised a fulfilling, questions answering, plot thread ending EPIC which turned out to be a badly written mess. Again, the consumers are in their rights. This time, because they were bloody LIED to.

If broken promises entitled anyone to anything, Molyneux would've been out of business with the release of Black & White 2/any of the Fable games.

Please, don't assume you deserve special treatment just because Bioware managed to string you along for a full series before shitting in your bed.

Hello MovieBOB,

I don't think you'll ever read this, but I have to say it anyways (for my own sake)

Imagine General Motors is launching a new car. The car is highly advertised and all of its features are presented. You find out that the car is powerful, safe, extremely efficient and is 100% electric. They constantly advertise that this car can go toe to toe with any SUV and that it holds its own.

You get super excited, and you make an advanced payment for the car. The launch day comes and you get your new beauty and you start to test-drive it. It runs smoothly, it's beautiful, it's superb, it's everything you hoped for and you instantly fall in love with your new car.
Then you go to the gas station to recharge the batteries and you discover that your new car is not 100% electric and it is in fact a hybrid. You get mad at the fact that you were lied to and you stat writing a complaint letter to General Motors. You were falsely advertised to by General motors and you're trying to do something about it. Then MovieBob comes along and calls you an entitled little shit because you're not satisfied with the work the General Motor engineers did because one little feature isn't exactly the way you wanted it and that people like you are throwing a stick in the wheel of progress of the auto industry for complaining about a new car.

This is exactly how we feel about the Mass Effect ending. We're not upset because the ending is a pile of garbage that was clearly written by someone who never read any of the game scripts, we're upset because we were lied to. The marketing of this game in the last 5 years bombarded us with the notion that the player will be an active element in this space adventure. We were told over and over again that our input in the game mattered in the end and that we would essentially be an active writer in our own experience. And the product we got is just not what they promised us. We feel conned.

The main feature is just not there, the car we bought is not 100% electric, it needs gas, and that has a huge impact on the maintenance costs. Mass Effect's ending has destroyed any replayability value the game could have had. And for some of us, this feature was the only reason we bought the game in the first place. I can't afford to buy a game for 60 Euros that I'm going to finish in 20 hours and never want to see ever again, this was an investment that was suppose to keep me entertained for at least 60 hours.

Thanks for reading

Mass Effect has no idea what it wants to be.

The narrative is the elephant in the room.

The exposition, choppy delivery, and sad last minute work around to cover for the Collectors Edition and DLC, that they didn't have, cost time, so yes they cut content, to sell it back to you as DLC.

Screwing about and trying to be Meta and Arts'i blew the focus... which was to make a game.

This awkwardness culminates with the player finally getting to the arse-end of the elephant.

Tickle it's nuts... while you stare into it's gaping abyss... No you have to tickle it's nuts.

Get three colors - in your face.

That's choice you can take to the bank. :D

The ending is incoherent because the game is incoherent, because it wanted to be something other than a game. It wanted to be a philosophy paper. It did both, and it did both poorly.

There is no "Re-take" coming, there is no DLC that fixes it, because if there was, they wouldn't of cut the DLC in the game now, from the game, to have sold BACK to you as DLC.

You bought a philosophy paper, under the pretense it was a game, behind the guise that it is art, for the sole purpose of flipping a buck.

370999:
So once again Bob doesn't understand the difference between games and movies. And misrepresents the retake ME movement. Standard stuff from him them.

Bob just does shit like that, he doesn't like first person games or macho stuff, and because of that tried to say Halo was evil by saying it had Nazi undertones to it.

Every time I have seen Bob dislike something, he pics the most manipulative way of expressing it.

Endocrom:
Wow, 460+ replies of what I'm sure is a completely mature and respectful conversation.

Whatever, I don't care if they are aliens. If it's a good movie nothing else matters.

The REAL best part of Bay's statement was that "they will be tough, edgy, funny and memorable[sic]" line. Good luck with that.

Because, even after the 90's, EVERYTHING MUST BE EDGY.

albinoterrorist:

RoseArch:

2) The Mass Effect 3 ending was NOT what was promised to the fans. BioWare promised a fulfilling, questions answering, plot thread ending EPIC which turned out to be a badly written mess. Again, the consumers are in their rights. This time, because they were bloody LIED to.

If broken promises entitled anyone to anything, Molyneux would've been out of business with the release of Black & White 2/any of the Fable games.

Please, don't assume you deserve special treatment just because Bioware managed to string you along for a full series before shitting in your bed.

Molyneux has been breaking promises since Fable 1. He didn't make Fable and Fable II 2 of the most beloved games of this generation before pissing on his fans.

Then why the heck are people trying to force someone to rewrite something?

Ask Sherlock Holmes fans that caused us to get several literary classics that, without fans "forcing" the writer to, we never would have gotten.

This is no different than censorship

Please get over yourself and your fanboyism for a company that made bad decisions, and go live in a country that actually practices censorship for, say, a year.

When you come back (probably after some prison time), make sure to apologize properly for what you said here. :)

Please, don't assume you deserve special treatment just because Bioware managed to string you along for a full series before shitting in your bed.

Actually, you're the only one asking for someone to get special treatment. In your case, you want videogame companies to get special treatment by your weird demand for them to be excempt from what EVERY OTHER COMPANY faces.

Fans here are actually waking up and noticing that, as customers, they have some pretty basic rights, including returning products that did not meet the advertized standards, and/or demanding a fix to the problem.

It's that simple. Videogame companies are no special snowflakes. Deal with it.

MovieBob:

Stalydan:

neoontime:
REALLY BOB, REALLY? *Cough* Going Green Part 2 *cough*

Oh yeah, I had a Twitter debate/argument with Grey Carter (one of the critical miss guys) and pretty much ending with HEAT because, if nothing else, that's the closest thing that Bob has covered to Retake Mass Effect. And I don't remember him saying it was a bad thing. HEAT is to comics as Retake Mass Effect is to games. It's hard to support one without supporting the other as they practically stand for the same things.

I called HEAT "the biggest, longest, most preposterously powerful act of fanboy pissing and moaning in the history of fanboy pissing and moaning." If you read that as "not a bad thing," I dunno what to tell you ;)

Hey, I said:

Stalydan:
And I don't remember him saying it was a bad thing.

Didn't say I remembered either ;)

Don't try saying that fans of Mass Effect don't have a right to be disappointed by the ending and want a new one. How many movies have changed their endings after test screenings where people didn't like it. Hell, I know a few movies you've reviewed that had their endings changed.

Should fans be able to demand one? Yeah. Should they demand one? Probably not because demanding for things is rude.

The only reason you won't get why a lot of people want a new ending is because you're not a fan of the series, you're not emotionally attached to a lot of the characters like a lot of fans of the series. It's not so much the ending (though there are huge problems with it like the lack of sense it makes with the rest of the game even) but the lack of closure the game has is why a lot of fans don't like it and want a new ending/closure. It'd be like if a TV show got cancelled right before the last episode was aired but they tried cutting together a few scenes from it in the penultimate to make it seem like that was the end of the series. People want to see that ending so they get answers for the questions that are now lingering on their minds.

But what do I know? I'm only a writer who has learnt how to structure things and plan things out like not suddenly shifting tone for the last couple of minutes of something and always have closure on your story if you've been making out into a long series and not do a Gainax Ending.

Sargent Hoofbeat:
Hey bob, I'mma just gonna leave this here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MlatxLP-xs

FALL UPON THE PLINKETT SWORD

This is quality, thanks for this post. It pretty much hits the nail on the head.

EA is developer cancer. Bio ware died a little before they released dragon age 2.

I get the feeling Bob is joining the group of people who only seem to focus on the more passionate people in the movement rather than looking into the people who have made calm and reasoned points. I thought he was above all that, but i guess not.

Yea you fucking cry-babies need to stfu about Mass Effects ending already. If I had any interest in playing that piece of shit game now it wouldn't be worth it because I already know the ending from hearing it from the mouths of the whiniest bunch of entitled babies ever.

It's a game. Get over it, move on and play something else.

On a different note, thanks Bob, you reminded me that there are better things to look forward to. GAME OF THRONES ON SUNDAY!!!

If video games and movies are in any way comparable then mass effect is like john carter in terms of quality alone. Unlike John carter Mass Effect found it's material elsewhere but overall was good but in some places slow and could have been so much better.
Mass effect 2 is like pirates of the Caribbean, faster paced, caters towards a bigger audience and primarily made to grab money.
Mass effect 3 is like the transformers movie. For people who feel more strongly about the game it's transformers 3, if you really feel strongly about it then it's green lantern, enough said.

Well the ending anyway

Here's the difference between movie endings and video game endings, Bob: Games are an interactive media! I can't stress that enough; the reason people are demanding a new ending are due to the consumer's right to be told the truth when it comes to their endings and not blatantly lie to them & berating them for not agreeing with their opinions. Not to mention blocking anything that doesn't agree with the ending as well as a Bioware writer allegedly speaking out about how the ending itself was not well received within the group because the lead writer and Casey Hudson did it by themselves with no one to proof read.

What really disturbs me is the fact that Bob views us as a group that didn't like the ending, so we're petitioning it. No, that'd be idiotic. We're hating the ending because it throws every decision, every conversation, every shared moment, every hard earned level, every major aspect of the games out the window in a matter of ten minutes. As I said, games are interactive and are allowed have changed endings because of DLC. That's the big difference: D.L.C. You can't have a movie or a book completely rewritten because once those two are released, a new version won't come out unless it's a director's cut in the movie's case.

DLC can allow for a new possible ending or clarification, which is ultimately what we want. We'd go as far as to settle for a fucking text scroll. When your game series, one that you've invested over 100+ hours in, decides to hamfist a new ending out of nowhere & completely ruin both the lore & not tell you anything of what happened after the events, you have every right to complain.

Filing a complaint? No, that's going too far. Petition? Sure, why not.

Yes. Extensively re-cutting highlander 2 the quickening to remove the alien subplot and please fans did indeed destroy film making as an art form. I for one am glad that radio plays and flower arranging still exist as pure creative art.

That aside, I have to laugh when people talk about how if this happens then game companies will no longer be willing to take creative risks, or that people like mass effect because it takes creative risks because...

(Alert, I'm not going to annoy a lot of mass effect fans who I'm on the same side as. I like the game too, and I think it's well told, has a good aesthetic and is over all pretty neat)

Mass Effect took almost no creative risks what so ever. There is almost nothing original in the whole series in terms of the actual lore/background/characterization. Just as an example: in Mass Effect 1 the plot is that you, an Earth Force Officer, chase a rogue romulan agent and his army of cylons controlled by an Inhibitor and try to stop them from using Babylon 5 to bring back all the other inhibitors to destroy sapient life. My companions include Dirty Harry, a barbarian guy who's not so barbarous, and someone from the Battle Star Galatica fleet. Along the way I fight the bugs from Starship Troopers.

In Mass Effect 2, I join section 31/Majestic 12 (from Deus Ex) in their quest to stop the aliens from X-com (this is a bit more disguised, but energy weapons, abductions and they have their digestive systems replaced by cybernetics? That's X-com) from abducting humans in order to build a giant terminator.

The most creative races in it are the Elchor, who don't do anything, and the Asari, who are a pretty standard oldest younger race (like the Minbari) but subverted a bit (Illium is basically meant to undermine the usual ideas about such species, similarly Liara is a centuries old schoolgirl at least in ME1.) and given sexiness as a superpower.

The Mass Effect series is so derivative that it often feels like it was created using TV Tropes.

People don't like it because it took creative risks, they like it for the opposite reason. It took a bunch of things they already liked and knew and polished them up with some fantastic art direction and some rather cool detailing, and wove them together into a narrative. It's the same appeal as say, megacrossover fanfiction, just professionally done.