The Big Picture: The New Green

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The New Green

MovieBob gives you another reason as to why comics are weird.

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Hmm. So it's not even Allen Scott it's an Allen Scott of another world? Comics aren't so much as weird as just down right confusing sometimes.

Still, at least they did have the guts to do it with a male character instead of just going with the cliche female one and using it as an excuse to shoe-horn in lesbian scenes to sell more crap.

My thought was pretty much "Good for them, now why are they being so righteous about it?" Why not make it happen and not make a big deal about it? Because if they didn't they wouldn't get press out of it. Its not like people are going to go out and buy it because he is gay. Make a genuinely good character and it doesn't matter if they're black, white, gay, straight, man, woman, alien. A good character is a good character.
*adjusts tie*
It just seems foolish.

Wasn't he actually dealing with his son coming out before the new reboot?

Flamboyantly dressed, immaculately groomed, well built, good with his ring.

Makes sense I suppose.

I don't have a problem with characters being gay or of a particular ethnic group in and of itself, what I have a problem with is when that is shoehorned into a property just to appease a given social group; which is kinda what I feel DC is doing with this whole gay Green Lantern thing.

As long as it wasn't Aquaman.

I don't have a problem with characters being gay or of a particular ethnic group in and of itself, what I have a problem with is when that is shoehorned into a property just to appease a given social group; which is kinda what I feel DC is doing with this whole gay Green Lantern thing.

Appeasement is why they started this whole stupid reboot in the first place:

Ghah! Established canon? That's no way to appeal to the youth! Make everything new and 'hip' and make Power Girl's boobs bigger while you're at it. Hell, MAKE ALL THEIR BOOBS BIGGER!

I'm just a little disappointed that there wasn't a "coming out" event for him and that they still just rewrote his background to make him gay in the first place. After all, for most generations of LGBT you had to keep it hidden, and there's still communities within the US (as well as whole countries in the less developed areas of the world) where being gay is a ticket to automatic ostracism from the community as a whole.

But, then again, baby steps...

I thought it was going to be some of the already outed characters that DC has publishing rights to. You know something like, Fade from Milestone Media or Apollo and Midnighter from Wildstorm.

I'm almost surprised that MovieBob didn't talk about The Authority/Stormwatch. Because really, DC could've thrown that out there without changing anything, and sort of take credit of characters done by a different company.

For those that don't know, two characters in Authority/Stormwatch are Apollo and Midnighter, who are essentially a grittier, gay version of Superman and Batman. They've been a hot item since the Authority comic began, and they got hitched years ago before DC took over the franchise and added them to their continuity. Now they're in Stormwatch and led by the Martian Manhunter.

So yeah, technically DC could retroactively throw them out there, and they're no less obscure than Golden Age Green Lantern.

I thought it was going to be some of the already outed characters that DC has publishing rights to. You know something like, Fade from Milestone Media or Apollo and Midnighter from Wildstorm.

*shakes tiny fist*

In regards to the "why don't they come up with new heroes who are representative of this group or that group" it's probably a two-fold reason. 1. It's quite hard to come up with a brand new character in this day and age when pretty much every superpower you can think of has been used and 2. That new character would likely get a slating because of the people who'd see the new character as only being there just to fit that demographic gap.

Hasn't Moonknight been 'out' for like a decade?

I don't see what the big deal is anymore.

Apparently I agree with Bob so much that there was absolutely nothing new in this episode for me. Yeah, it probably needed an episode, yeah he said what probably needed to be said. However I mostly felt that people should know these things already. (Not the history of course, it'd be silly to expect everyone to know the history of Green Lantern.)

So is it a coincidence that Green Lantern's initials are GL, as in GLT... yeah, I'm sure it is.

Something I feel needs to be mentioned is why Alan Scott was chosen. Some people think DC decided that having a gay superhero would be a great publicity stunt and then proceeded to go through their line up and choose an appropriate hero.

Well before the reboot, Alan Scott had a super hero son, Obsidian, who was gay. With the reboot making him younger, that son was not going to exist any more. The writer thought it would be a shame to lose a positive gay character and so proposed making Alan Scott gay, and it went from there.

I don't have a problem with introducing gay characters or having old characters rebooted with changes to there race/sexuality/hair colour. However I'm not a fan of how DC promoted this as if it was a big deal.

Actually, it makes a lot of sense. It would be great, to create a comic book character, and evolve him as a superhero, and give subtle hints, that he might be gay, and that the character comes out after a few years, much to everyones surprise (would take a LOT of hiding that information, yet still conveying it to the artists who work on them without leaking out as it would spoil the whole damn thing).

That would be much more natural, if you have an established character, and turn him gay for the sake of PR, that's just bad storytelling.

For long time DC comics readers, Green Lantern Alan Scott is a pretty well-established character. Sure this isn't exactly the Alan Scott who's been around 70 years, but basically all of the JSA characters got younger reboots with The New 52, and like most retconn reboots, this will be obscured within a couple years and most of them will be indistinguishable from their original characters. Except perhaps Alan Scott will keep his new sexual identity, because it's not as big a deal as it once was.

The main point of the "One of our major characters are coming out as gay" hype, was not so much the face value big deal, but the confidence that such a press release would spur a group like the (amusingly misnamed) One-Million Moms to give them a lot of free advertising by protesting. Score one for predictable, if misguided, outrage.

The ironic thing about publicity stunts like this is that the more we react to it, the more successful it is financially, but the more hindering it is to the real cause. The ultimate acceptance of the LGBT community would be to treat them like everyone else, therefore like nothing at all. The change itself deosn't bother me in the slightest, but the attention that DC draws to it is what makes it come off as gimmicky and insincere.

Seeing as most people don't really care about Green Lantern though, I think the gays win - I mean, no matter how much the movie sucked, Ryan Reynolds still takes his shirt off in it, right? Amirite?!?!?!?! lo lolol olll ol l o!!!

The "yeah it's not really the green lantern we know and not even the original Allen Scott" game is fun and ultimately harmless. But the "this isn't a big deal," "there was no reason to do this," "they're just doing it because x," thing really needs to stop. Looking at the history of this industry and especially DC's inability to have a well-rounded cast for the longest time, something like this is a huge step forward at best, and simply a unique character trait at worst. I don't buy the argument that it's shoehorned in because giving an old character something new to work with is kind of what REBOOTING is about.

I don't know much about comics (what little I do is from the X-Men and the Batman cartoon shows), so I can't argue if this fits in universe, but the way that DC handled this is kinda irritating to me.

DC: "One of our main characters is going to be gay".
Me: "Cool".
DC: "It's Green Lantern"
Me: "Hal Jordan's gay? Cool".
DC: "Hum,'s Alan Scott, the original Green Lantern (who you've never heard of, by the way). And it's going to happen in a parallel universe, so we don't have to deal with it in our main continuity".

If you wanted to make a gay character, then make a gay character for real! Don't pick a different version of a character in a different universe and make him gay!

Nate Corran:
My thought was pretty much "Good for them, now why are they being so righteous about it?" Why not make it happen and not make a big deal about it? Because if they didn't they wouldn't get press out of it. Its not like people are going to go out and buy it because he is gay.

Because this is an age of social networks, organized nerd rage and reactionary cable news networks hungry for stories to rile up their audiences. So if you do something with the potential for controversy, you better take control of the media narrative right at the beginning, or someone else is going to.

A question that will out me as not knowing much about Wonder Woman but:

Wouldn't turning Wonder Woman gay actually make it so that she prefers men? Wonder Woman wasn't born to a male/female pair, she was created. She and everyone on Themyscera (forgive spelling) are basically golems if I'm remembering this right, little girls fashioned from clay and having life breathed into them and given human-like appearances. I'm assuming this means of birth was eventually retconned out but it still doesn't change the fact that Diana was born and raised on Themyscera, a nation where Men don't exist and are mistrusted (if not downright detested) by the all-female inhabitants.

As for Alan Scott...My prediction was Guy Gardener, another Green Lantern but a Green Lantern none-the-less. I want partial credit dammit.

My problem is in the fact that Allen Scott was a 40 something married with son right wing thinker, who had a problem with his gay son, now he's a 20 year old proud to be gay, it doesn't sound like they made Allen Scott gay but made a whole new character and then just gave him the Allen Scott name, that's where the problem lies. I wonder if the continuity of the new 52 will ever become just earth 3 or something, then we could watch homophobe Allen Scott deal with gay Allen Scott.

I wonder how many cis-straight dudes are going to complain about "appeasement" in this comment section.

You'd think they'd just make a new Green Lantern who's gay, rather than make a new version of an existing character in an alternate universe who's gay. Well as Bob said "Comics are Weird".

Evil won another battle, RIP Golden Age Green Lantern

Personally I'd say the whole 2 earths so they can have a different version of established characters to mess around with is a pretty good idea. It's just that DC can't help but do it in the most convoluted way possible.

As long as it wasn't Aquaman.

Ghah! Established canon? That's no way to appeal to the youth! Make everything new and 'hip' and make Power Girl's boobs bigger while you're at it. Hell, MAKE ALL THEIR BOOBS BIGGER!

Apparently Aquaman is pretty cool in the New 52. Also Wonder Woman is a good book for the first time in 20 years or so. What the hell is going on here?

PG's boobs have actually shrunk (and are covered up nowadays).

I rather like PG myself, she realizes people notice the rack so she just makes it into her thing. Basically every superheroine has this amazing body that is never really talked about in the comics themselves. Power Girl and Empowered are almost the only characters where they address this, making them more mature (in a way) than the ones screaming that it's pandering. Of course that's still going on, but that counts for basically every superhero comic out there.

Buy Batwoman.

ps. A man, over 1000 posts, I've gone gonzo... I loved the pulitzer laureate tag...

Oh, Sorry were you expecting some Christian anti-homo rage?

Nope not gonna happen. I got some therapy and got over myself a few years ago.

Sorry to disappoint!

One more thing..
Making a character gay is no more done to 'please the gay community' then making a black character, that doesn't look like s/he was made by the KKK, is done to 'please' the black community.
Times change, societies evolve, and bigoted notions are tossed away by those who don't think the earth is 6,000 years old.
Welcome to the 21st Century, people.
We're evolving into a better society and if you don't like it, o well.
And you wanna know WHY people are protesting this?
It's because vile, hate filled, bigots have less and less groups that are seen as socially 'okay' groups to hate.
You know what is REALLY killing the comic book world?
All those universe changing events that take a year to tell, **** up any way of letting a character develop, and then doing it a year or two later.
While I'm a fan of things like 'Brighest Day' and 'Darkest Night', they happen FAR TOO often.
Or how about the 'New 52' that promised a true REBOOT, so it'd be easier for new people to 'get' into comics, that failed to not only be an actual REBOOT but also ruined characters like Starfire?
Or maybe there's the RAPE of Ms. Marvel back in the late 80s/early 90s.
But this IS the internet so I'm sure some of ya'll think it's GREAT.
Changing a barely know version of Green Lantern's sexuality is SO going to 'ruin comics forever'.
Get over yourselves you Bronze Age bigots.
It's the 21st Century.
Women are no longer property,
*insert non-white color here* aren't that way because they pissed off some deity,
the earth is round,
Science is more popular than sorcery (mostly)
Homosexuals aren't curse by a imp/genie/make good pray for hunters,
etc, etc, etc...
O, yeah, and we went to the ****ING MOON!

It's Earth 52's Green Lantern... Who cares then?!
It's like ultimate Spider-man being a black/Latino; it doesn't really matter.

***BTW*** Power Girl will be drawn differently


And yes, the boobs are smaller.

Well, I was hoping Batman was going to end up being gay.

So heres my misogynist take this.

I always thought Alan Scott a pretty gay character anyway. I mean that in the homophobic slur not in the literal and thats why I find this to be a pretty backhanded "present" DC is trying to give gays.

No one cares about Alan Scott. There's a reason why Hal Jordan is the fondly remembered original Green Lantern. Alan Scott sucks. He's totally uninteresting. He's the boring uncle of the DC family. He's "Wooden" *budum-tssh*

He's not a headliner. Making him gay is just lame. "Well we could never think of anythin to do with alan scott so we'll just fill out the book with pictures of him kissing dudes and it will get us free press."

Also heres another sad part that annoys me most. In comics "lately" whenever they make a character gay They go out of their way to make a big deal out how gay the gay character is in the gay comic you're gayly reading.

In the last few issues of one of the X-men titles Northstar is seen making out with his boyfriend like 136 times. I FUCKING GET IT HE'S GAY.

In the last issue of superman how many times is he seen kissing a girl? Ok how about the last 10?

You what I'm getting at? They might as well have made Superman or batman gay because it literally has no impact on who they are.

Comicbook publishers are trying so hard to apologize for not having enough gay stuff but they have no clue wtf being gay even means so they respond with "IDK MAKE HIM KISS DUDES A LOT!! They'll be so impressed with us!"

Goddamit if you're not gonna put any actual effort into it don't bother its just fucking insulting.

For the first time ever with a Big Picture episode, I actually knew more than 80% of what Bob was talking about.

As to the topic at hand, wasn't one of Alan Scott's first lines in the Golden Age something along the lines of "I'm gay about this" or some such? Completely useless information, since back then "gay" was just another word for "happy" or even "crazy," but it was just a fun little fact.

Also, to everyone bitching and moaning about it being a "publicity stunt" and how "GRRR He's not a MAIN character," consider that DC never made the statement that it would be a "main" character, simply an "iconic" character.

Finally, Archie did it first, bitches (not that I read Archie). :D

I knew it was going to be one of the Green Lanterns from the moment I heard the announcement. My thinking was this: they wanted to make an announcement like this because comic sales go up when there's controversy floating around (which, as far as I'm concerned, turns the whole decision into exploitation on the part of DC executives, but then, that's what I've come to expect from these companies). Green Lantern has dozens of characters with that mantel, so it could pick one of the more obscure Lanterns and thus still have a "big name" character come out, but if it goes badly and nobody likes it, they can stop writing comics about the character without losing their big name or needing to come up with some kind of dubious retcon.
At the end of the day, I feel like DC is trying to play us. What the writers do with it, that might be a different story. Good writers can take even incredibly stupid ideas handed down from "on high" and turn them into something interesting.
But, as I'm not really following the comics realm all that much and haven't read the latest issue or any of the subsequent issues that are going to come out, it'd be a bit premature for me to say whether or not they've pulled it off.
Not that this stops me from expressing my cynicism for the big companies running our media.

I think dropping Allen Scott's age by a couple decades is a far more drastic change than his sexual preferences.

I mean, hell in comics Scott was dealing with his gay son. If they had kept that aspect of continuity, imagine how much more poignant the outing of Allen Scott would be if it was revealed that he was actually gay too, and his problems with his son were maybe stemming from his own self loathing on the subject.

But I guess it's kind of a moot point since Allen Scott isn't "The" Green Lantern that everyone knows about, so for DC it's a relatively safe publicity stunt.

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