The Big Picture: Sidekicks

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 NEXT
 

Bob is a psychic nowadays!!?? O.o
The "pick up your brains..." part at the end was so me xD
Nice episode!

Dick Grayson is, in my opinion, one of the greatest heroes EVER. Unlike pretty much EVERY other hero DC has, Dick Grayson is the only one to actually evolve, grow up, mature, and have a fully realized story arc that lasted several decades that DC, thus far, hasn't totally retconned or destroyed.

... Though I REALLY wanted him to stay the official Batman for much longer. Wally West and Kyle Rayner had longer tenures as Flash and Green Lantern, and Dick Grayson's Batman with Damien Wayne as Robin was some of the best, freshest, and most enjoyable Batman stories in decades.

Jason should have stayed dead... or, if he HAD to come back, stay evil. DC has retconned Jason Todd over four times in the past five years.

Stephanie Brown... does she even EXIST in the new universe?

And DC is so confused by Tim Drake right now. They say he was never Robin in this new continuity... yet the new continuity has proven he was Robin in other comics (like Batman #1) so... either DC is retconning their rectcon, or they actually don't even read their other comics.

--

Please do a Batgirl. That's way more confusing than Robin.. I've been subscribed to the entire Bat family for years and I still don't know what happened to Stephanie, Helena, Cassandra, or how Barbara Gordan is walking again. There's mention of a surgery in the first...ermm new first issue but since comics are weird...who knows.

I'd also like Bob to sort out wtf is up with the new 52. Again...I'm subscribed to over 20 of them and have no idea why DC's entire history is only 5 years long in some places, and much longer in others. For example... Blackest Night happened just before FP and the new 52. People fought and died and were reborn and stayed dead. Fast forward to New 52 and Blackest Night only happened to Green Lantern and Sinestro? Hell, most of the major plot points didn't happen because characters either don't exist, or don't know each other. ex:Superboy does not know Superman yet and the JSA does not exist. Or Why are there still multiple universes and What exactly was the point of Flashpoint?

Loving some of the new stories but the new 52 overall is more confusing than DC has ever been.

SilverHammerMan:

ManupBatman:

Azurian:
I do have one small Batman related question is Terry McGinnis canon as Bruce's son in the Batman universe or is he just his son as far as the cartoon goes.

He wasn't his son, just an adopted father figure.

Actually I'm pretty sure he is, something about shadowy government types using nanobots or something to rejigger Terry's dad's reproductive DNA to be identical to Bruce Wayne's (really) in an attempt to create a new Batman. So Terry is kinda Bruce's son biologically.

Vault Citizen:
I liked that you used a very recent picture of the four Robins together, it helps keep the show feel up to date. One thing I will say that you didn't mention I that apparently in the new continuity Tim Drake was never Robin and instead was always Red Robin.

God that was a stupid retcon. I feel like this is going to be one of those occassions were the fans just go "NOPE" to a creator and ignore it, a "Death of the Author" situation ala that one X-Men story were Nightcrawler's dad was really a mutant-demon-guy and it defeated the whole original point of Nightcrawler.
It's just so stupid and it confuses me. Was Tim Drake ever Batman's sidekick now? Was he just sidekicking as Red Robin? I get that they're trying to streamline everything now for their whole 5 year timeline thing, another stupid idea in my opinion especially when applied to the Batman franchise, but Tim Drake is one of the better know Robins, like Bob said. If they were going to get rid of a Robin the could have done worse than getting rid of Damian Wayne, who is really only interesting and likable when cast as the Robin to Dick Grayson's Batman. But that would mean derailing Grant Morrison's whole Bat-God cycle and DC won't do that. Sadly.

Oh yeah, and uh,
Bob, good episode.

As you say the retcon is just another reason why trying to shoe horn major elements of the DCU into 5 years was a stupid idea.

Random Argument Man:
So.... one Robin got killed after being tortured by *the joker*. The reason for this was *fans let him to die after DC asked them*. (Fans loved it)
Another Robin got killed after being tortured by "the black mask*. The reason for this was *died of torture but could've been saved by somebody when the choice was presented*. (Fans hated it).

After this *sort of* irony, I can safely assume that the gaming community is not the only weird community in geek culture.

It's more complicated than that. Fans hated it because of: Batman acting like a gigantic tool, using the "first canonical female Robin" in what was perceived as a dishonest manner, complete disregard for what "first canonical [i]female]/i] Robin would mean to segments of the readers and weird torture porn-y art [of a teenage girl] in a couple of places. Then throw in editorial statements that she was never a "real" Robin and denying her a memorial in the Batcave because "it was her own fault." Oh yeah, and a dose of good old fashioned character assassination for Leslie Thompkins.

It was just a giant clusterfuck of tone deafness and poor judgement.

Dido has already released a DC black ops team after MovieBob for calling Stephanie a Robin.

ANImaniac89:
Good episode Bob
But what about Carrie Kelly? I know see's not really canon but come on she was the first girl Robin. Having said that she was kinda ruined (alone with Dick Grayson) in DK2 when the true depths of Frank Millers madness began to show.

That's what I was thinking, but I figured I was missing something, since The Dark Knight Returns is really the only comic I've ever read XD

So, why are they called Robin?

I'd agree with Tim Drake being the best Robin. Dick is much better a his on hero rather that be Nightwing or Batman.

Damian is...kind of an ass. And Stephine didnt seem like she was cut out for the job.

JaceArveduin:

ANImaniac89:
Good episode Bob
But what about Carrie Kelly? I know see's not really canon but come on she was the first girl Robin. Having said that she was kinda ruined (alone with Dick Grayson) in DK2 when the true depths of Frank Millers madness began to show.

That's what I was thinking, but I figured I was missing something, since The Dark Knight Returns is really the only comic I've ever read XD

That comic takes place in an alternate future. She doesn't count.

Shadowstar38:
Good episode Bob
But what about Carrie Kelly? I know see's not really canon but come on she was the first girl Robin. Having said that she was kinda ruined (alone with Dick Grayson) in DK2 when the true depths of Frank Millers madness began to show.

That comic takes place in an alternate future. She doesn't count.[/quote]
Ah, that's nice to know.

is anyone else getting really tired of the "_____ are weird" bits? its really starting to gnaw at my ears every time he does it to the point i hover over the sound off button when i watch these episodes.

Anyway thanks for the little sum up of the robins, so im guessing the dark knight rises robin is one nolan made up so he could stand putting him in a film? lol

Wow, almost all of those 'The fans/people hated that' moments you mentioned sound pretty awesome to me!

Random Argument Man:
So.... one Robin got killed after being tortured by *the joker*. The reason for this was *fans let him to die after DC asked them*. (Fans loved it)
Another Robin got killed after being tortured by "the black mask*. The reason for this was *died of torture but could've been saved by somebody when the choice was presented*. (Fans hated it).

After this *sort of* irony, I can safely assume that the gaming community is not the only weird community in geek culture.

Gender has a lot to do with this. Fans hate to see female characters die, especially their waifu.

Also fans only like it when annoying characters (Scrappy Doo, Wesley Crusher, Jar Jar Binks) are killed. Killing popular characters can arouse a lot of anger if it's handled badly or for no real reason (when R. A. Salvatore killed off Chewbacca (Star Wars) he needed FBI protection due to all the death threats he received).

I'd like to see a Terry McGinnis episode too. I've only known him from the Cartoon and I really enjoyed that character when I was kid. Batman was grumpy and old taking on a more curmudgeonly Alfred like mentor to Terry. On top of that Bruce wanted Terry become obsessive about being the batman like he was and Terry pushed back against it. I thought it made for interesting conflict between the two.

ALSO DAMN I didn't know there were so many Robbins. Comics are really weird >_>

I read a good portion of the whole Red Hood-Black Mask segment of Batman (my exposure to same is somewhat defined by what the library makes available), and quite frankly, it made me want to break the writers' fingers. Aside from the gratuitous levels of grim-and-gritty and the joyous flogging of the notion "Batman should be killing these supervillains, letting them live to return to terrorize again is irresponsible", both the Hood and the Mask were heavily laden with "plot armor", showing no particularly novel or ingenious planning abilities or skills yet somehow knocking Batman for a loop because, hey, that's what was written.

Argh.

I'm somewhat ambivalent about the "New 52" reboot decision, but I sure as hell hope they can do better than that.

4173:

Random Argument Man:
Snip*

It's more complicated than that. Fans hated it because of: Batman acting like a gigantic tool, using the "first canonical female Robin" in what was perceived as a dishonest manner, complete disregard for what "first canonical [i]female]/i] Robin would mean to segments of the readers and weird torture porn-y art [of a teenage girl] in a couple of places. Then throw in editorial statements that she was never a "real" Robin and denying her a memorial in the Batcave because "it was her own fault." Oh yeah, and a dose of good old fashioned character assassination for Leslie Thompkins.

It was just a giant clusterfuck of tone deafness and poor judgement.

Dido has already released a DC black ops team after MovieBob for calling Stephanie a Robin.

Ok, now that makes more sense than fans reacting to irony.

uanime5:

Random Argument Man:
Snip*

Gender has a lot to do with this. Fans hate to see female characters die, especially their waifu.

Also fans only like it when annoying characters (Scrappy Doo, Wesley Crusher, Jar Jar Binks) are killed. Killing popular characters can arouse a lot of anger if it's handled badly or for no real reason (when R. A. Salvatore killed off Chewbacca (Star Wars) he needed FBI protection due to all the death threats he received).

Death threaths !?

I...don't even.....what?..wait........WHAT? Ok, Star wars fan community is now no.1 in over-reactions.

To summarize in a word, "wat? 0.o" I never read comic books but I watched various superhero cartoons in the 90's (Batman Beyond was my favorite) So this is and avalanche of confusion.

Also, WTF the Iranian Ambassador???!?!? Who's idea was that..?

Azurian:
I do have one small Batman related question is Terry McGinnis canon as Bruce's son in the Batman universe or is he just his son as far as the cartoon goes.
image

Cartoons and the comics taking place in the DCAU. Since Terry becomes Batman in the future, and we are still in the present, it still a bit of a mute point.

One wonders if Terry will ever actually appear in the main comic universe (besides a few appearances like in Countdown where he is briefly seen in what is another universe) without the existence of Cadmus and now every city has a Batman (or was that retconned out with Flashpoint?) is even possible.

He also has another son, who is currently Robin, so you don't need to make another one.

Ah, wow. I was actually one of the people hoping for this kind of episode. Thank you Bob!

ManupBatman:

Azurian:
I do have one small Batman related question is Terry McGinnis canon as Bruce's son in the Batman universe or is he just his son as far as the cartoon goes.

He wasn't his son, just an adopted father figure.

http://batman.wikia.com/wiki/Batman_(Terry_McGinnis)#Bruce_Wayne

Last episode of JLU reveals Terry was created by Amanda Waller using Bruce's DNA as an attempt of recreating a Batman.

Hell, it's ON THE LINK YOU POSTED:

"The Justice League Unlimited episode "Epilogue" reveals that Terry is Bruce's biological son due to Amanda Waller's "Batman Beyond" project. This twist may be foreshadowed by the Batman Beyond season three episode, "Inqueling", when Terry notes that Wayne may be more of a "father figure" than Max realizes. The project caused Terry's father to have his reproductive DNA overwritten and made Bruce's reproductive DNA dominant when Warren McGinnis took a fake flu shot. This makes Bruce the biological father of both Terry and his brother Matt, even if Warren McGinnis raised them. "

uanime5:

Random Argument Man:
So.... one Robin got killed after being tortured by *the joker*. The reason for this was *fans let him to die after DC asked them*. (Fans loved it)
Another Robin got killed after being tortured by "the black mask*. The reason for this was *died of torture but could've been saved by somebody when the choice was presented*. (Fans hated it).

After this *sort of* irony, I can safely assume that the gaming community is not the only weird community in geek culture.

Gender has a lot to do with this. Fans hate to see female characters die, especially their waifu.

Also fans only like it when annoying characters (Scrappy Doo, Wesley Crusher, Jar Jar Binks) are killed. Killing popular characters can arouse a lot of anger if it's handled badly or for no real reason (when R. A. Salvatore killed off Chewbacca (Star Wars) he needed FBI protection due to all the death threats he received).

Also, fans did not LOVE Todd's death. The vote was almost evenly split.

Besides, Steph was a bit of a fan favorite. She was so peppy and exciting as a Robin...

canadamus_prime:
Nevertheless, I still think Batman is better without the kid sidekick.

The main reason Batman has a Robin, as Tim Drake put it, is that there needs to be a Robin to keep Batman in check. Batman is filled with angst and depression while Robin helps bring him up, acts as a counterbalance.

It's one of the reasons it worked in reverse when Dick Grayson became Batman and Damien became Robin, the roles got switched. Now it's Bruce and Damien and it's angst with more angst. Kinda doesn't work.

MatParker116:

Azurian:
I do have one small Batman related question is Terry McGinnis canon as Bruce's son in the Batman universe or is he just his son as far as the cartoon goes.
image

Cartoon and some comics I think, to quote BOB:

TV AND COMICS ARE WIERD

To my own knowledge Terry became official in Batman #700. The comic lists men who became batman and Terry was in there. His story is that Damian saves him as a kid and is the one to mentor Terry for the role of Batman once he gets older, instead of Bruce Wayne.

Sidekick are weird >_>.

Goddammit, I like Batman and would love to get into the comics but shit's just way too weird and ridiculous.

Are there any separate Batman story lines that don't let all that multiverse, retcon and other bullshit brought by decades of trying to keep everything canon get in the way of sense and reasonable, cohesive story?

Oh, dear... Mind... Utterly...

image

Blown.

And the kicker is, I don't even care about Batman, or superhero comics at all. And the impenetrable mass of half a century's retcons and storyarch is probably the main reason why. However, listening to someone who have a clue what the flip is going on is very entertaining. Far more than actually reading them, myself.

Dunno if i´m the only one, but i´m kinda starting to cringe everytime the --- are weird thing sets in, imo some things gets old faster than others, this got old years ago...

Wow, Bob's theory regarding sidekicks' popularity is quite intriguing. It actually makes a lot of sense, that superheroes would become father figures in a time when real-life father figures were scarce.

shintakie10:
It was incredibly close. The difference was within 100 votes, like you said. Its entirely possible that the difference got made up of dbags who just voted to kill him off just to see if DC would do it.

Fuckers, all of the people who did that.

Actually if you read up on it a bit, it can supposedly be attributed to a single person who programmed a computer to autodial the number.

Spoiler kind of looks like The mysterious mare do well don't you guys think?
image

image

Disappointed with this episode because of the title. This was only about batman, I thought it would be about sidekicks in general. Why they exist, why some are hated and some are loved etc.

Vausch:

canadamus_prime:
Nevertheless, I still think Batman is better without the kid sidekick.

The main reason Batman has a Robin, as Tim Drake put it, is that there needs to be a Robin to keep Batman in check. Batman is filled with angst and depression while Robin helps bring him up, acts as a counterbalance.

It's one of the reasons it worked in reverse when Dick Grayson became Batman and Damien became Robin, the roles got switched. Now it's Bruce and Damien and it's angst with more angst. Kinda doesn't work.

Maybe you're right, after all I've had very little exposure to the comics so most of my experience with Robin is from the goofy 60's series and the Schumacher films. Whereas watching Batman in the Justice League and Justice League Unlimited shows running around being awesome with no sidekick made me think that maybe he's better off without one.

LoneWanderer:
Spoiler kind of looks like The mysterious mare do well don't you guys think?
image

image

Neigh, you're Mysterious Mare looks more like Darkwing Duck (it's the hat).

Good thing we're only counting comic continuity...other wise they'd be a hell of a lot more.

Damien (the current Robin) grows up to become the future batman and his un-named future son becomes his Robin. This is just one of the many others.

image

Okay, this is a thing, tangentially related to the video, that's been bothering me since I read Bob's Intermission on The Dark Knight Rises. In it he complains about how Blake just "knows" that Bruce is Batman from meeting him at his orphanage which would be a legitimate criticism if it wasn't lifted right out of Tim Drake's backstory, a backstory that Bob never complains about when mentioning him.
On an unrelated note, even though I'm well aware that Bob said he wouldn't do any manga episodes (and thus, presumably, anime as well) I really want to see an episode comparing Japanese "Otaku" culture to Western "Geek" culture, because I find the parallels between the two subcultures (that grew mostly independent of each other) fascinating.
So, Bob, if you're reading this then... thanks for reading, I guess? Keep up the good work and have a nice life.
Cheerio.

Seriously Bob? Pronouncing Ra's Al Ghoul wrong? That's how I said it until I heard it in TAS.
(OK, turns out this is a topic of some debate on youtube)

I hate Tim Drake, hes too young, its weird.

Just remembered I only read the first 4 Justice Leagues about 2 months ago and completely forgot about the rest of it.

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Posting on this forum is disabled.