The Big Picture: Marvel Mess

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Marvel Mess

Follow Bob down the convoluted memory lane that is comic books.

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God damn cliffhanger!!!!

:Cue homestar runner cliffhanger sound:

o.o This raised so many more questions than it answered.

Who imposes the 5 minute limit? Is it the escapist or did Bob simply decide that was the only runtime that would work?

Well, that was a weak episode... if for the only reason that I've read about that story over the weekend.
Granted, it is a convoluted mess, I'm just gonna say it: Bob, you wasted time by saying it's convoluted. :P Could've just done a 7- to 8-minutes video and be done with it. That being said, next week's episode is gonna be interesting.

Yeah what does Marvelman who I've never heard off have to do with Angela who I've never heard of?

Wow, that was thin. You shoulda just done a quick bio of Marvelman, touching on some of the groundbreaking stuff in his history (his wife giving birth and the comic showing it, losing his memory of the magic word that transforms him, the most gruesome rampage in all comics, stuff like that). Then, when we're all up to speed, do you talk about how McFarlane kinda screwed Gaiman out of the rights to Angela and Gaiman wrote 1602 for Marvel just to pay for the legal fees, and I think at one point they tried to trade McFarlane's Marvelman rights with some rights Gaiman owned, and Marvel Comics has said they have the rights for years now but they haven't done anything with it and dang this all would take a bunch of episodes, wouldn't it?

...Damn cliffhanger, guess I'll just have to wait until next week... again...

Just like any good comic book episode, it leaves you wanting Moore.

And now we wait...
Damn it Bob, why do you have to be so intriguing.

Watching all these videos about comics make me realize two things: One, that comics are awesome. And two, that I will never read any of them. I mean seriously, if all this stuff is so inter-connected, it would take years to sort it all out. I read Watchmen and V for Vendetta because I was told they were awesome and because they were self-contained, but I don't see how I could delve any deeper into the medium without drowning in it.

1:02 Only to make a comeback years later with Titles like Chew, Gladstone's School for World Conquerers,27,Danger Club,(a story that actually uses the made up Golden Age histories of the heroes, villains, and sidekicks every now and again),Think Tank, the list goes on. 1:20 UGH. I avoid Event comics for a reason. I don't follow the mainstream books, and while I'll admit there are good event comics out there, I avoid them partly because of what Civil War did to the Runaways. Yeah....I kind of hate the Civil War event comic. I liked how Ultimate Alliance 2 did it better. 2:08 You almost had me there too. So instead of the Awesomeness of having Spawn in the Marvel universe, drawing me in, knowing the few things I do about him via Death Battle,we get a minor character that isn't even on the level of Anderson from Hellsing cool. Are you starting to lose it,Gaiman?

Technically that was half of the big picture.

Surely the reasons are fairly obvious? (The following is conjecture. Never heard of half these characters, as I am 2000AD guy, not a Marvel/DC one)

aww. i thought the litigation stuff would be interesting :( you even pumped it up for Marvel man for a second :'(.

This brings back memories. I remember having a subscription to X-Men when I was a kid AND buying an extra copy from lunch money to save. I was a kid--what did I know about girls much less investment planning?

Angela! The most blatant example of Spawn's creator McFarlane's pandering to the hormones of teenage boys at a time when the internet didn't exist so access to "hot pictures" in comics we on par with Playboy for most boys.

The sad thing about Angela is that she was actually more interesting than the consummately predictable Spawn.

Poor Angela...

Surely the reasons are fairly obvious? (The following is conjecture. Never heard of half these characters, as I am 2000AD guy, not a Marvel/DC one)

The key word you are missing is litigation. There is a fight no one is agreeing about all this.

OT: I hate too say it bob but i'm 23 and if it wasn't for Todd Mcfarlane I would have never gotten into comic books. The spawn books where some of the first books I ever read, as my dad was part of the bubble, he still has some very valuable comics. I recognize spawn as the crap it always was, but I also understand that without spawn I would not read comics, just like without the Power Rangers video game for the sega genesis I would not play videogames.

Off topic I never realized how cute todd mcfarlane used too be, now he looks like skeleton spent too much time in the tanning booth.

For a minute there I was proud that I actually remembered Angela... and then gawked at my screen thinking "Why the hell would any comic universe want her."

Angela reminds me of Witchblade and been thinking of reading that comic book series, but it just seems silly and the anime is the only thing I enjoyed

Ha, what are the odds, I only have a handful of American comics - as opposed to having a small library of European comics - yet I do own a copy of this "Angela".

It's labeled as "Image Special #3".

And up until now, I never realized it was written by Neil Gaiman. Isn't he suppose to be some "acclaimed" writer? Because it doesn't really show in this thing. (Though, to be honest, I've never been all that impressed with most US comics.)

Dear MovieBob: to avoid wasting everyone's time in the future about how 'this isn't going to fit into one episode' please just add the following two words after your title: "Part One."

Problem solved.

Why do I suspect this one might even bloat out into a three-parter...

Meh I seen worse buxon warrior woman and it isn't Xeno (look up Tarot).

Just like any good comic book episode, it leaves you wanting Moore.

Booooooooooooooooooo! :)

Who imposes the 5 minute limit? Is it the escapist or did Bob simply decide that was the only runtime that would work?

Keep in mind that he DOES do 2 other shows (I think Overthinker is still going), and writes an article every Friday. So a 5 minute run time is probably all he has time for.

Just like any good comic book episode, it leaves you wanting Moore.

*Chucks you down an elevator shaft hoping you get the reference*

Am I one of the few who really enjoys the multi-part episodes?

Another cliffhanger getting use to it by now

Neil Gaiman... I KNOW theres something he's done that I loved...
Oh yeah...

Just like any good comic book episode, it leaves you wanting Moore.

*Throws tomato* Booooooo, GET OFF!!!

This is a really good and interesting show.

Only one major problem: It's always too short...

I happened to enjoy the Angela mini-series, and I remember when Wizard magazine (remember THAT?!) had her voted as the best new character of the year. She was a big deal for awhile....

... And then the legal stuff went down and it became a mess. Angela was removed from the Spawn TV series (making her cameo in the second part entirely pointless) and replaced with some Asian ninja named Jade. She was "killed" in the comics (though the Angela knock-off, Tiffany, was still running around). She never had another spin-off series or toy made of her ever again (even Miracleman got one of those later on). It was, all in all, a sorry end to a character that, while not "totally awesome", was still a pretty interesting character within the Spawn universe (a demon-hunting angel falls in love with a hellspawn. Cue the drama).

The thing is... she was pretty essentially tied to the Spawn universe and lore. Her costume even had Spawn logos and symbols on it. If she shows up in Marvel, she'll essentially be a character that is entirely different from her former self in every single way, from visuals to story, thus making her just a brand new character with the same name... at which point I ask, why bother?

Well, I heard a lot of this before now. While it could be wrong it was simply abbreiviated into the simple fact that Gaiman and Mcfarlane continue to have slap fights over rights from the 1990s, not getting along at all nowadays despite having both once been partners. Gaiman wants to use one of his more successful hero characters Angela, which happens to be part of Mcfarlane's "Spawn" Universe which he still makes money off of. The central issue being that if this is the same character, meaning not simply one that looks and more or less acts the same, by using it in Marvel an arguement can be made that arguably Mcfarlane's major continiuity becomes yet another one of Marvel's parallel worlds, or at least a version of it does. A point which is paticularly interesting given that Marvel as a whole has never really done much with the concept of angels or heaven, sure we have demons, devils, and all kinds of nasty hellscapes, but other than characters that look angelic and might have claimed to have started the legends early on, I don't think we have ever seen a Marvel character with a directly heavenly origin, at least not one that I can think of.

Bob might be going somewhere else with it, but that is the gist of the situation as I understand it.

As far as the popularity of Angela and so on... well I'll say that a lot of people, Bob in paticular, seem to be getting too heavily into the whole "90s suck" vibe here still. Angela was a pretty popular character in her own right, and the simple fact that she was going to be making some bit apperances in various Spawn cartoons, or that there was a character who was supposed to be her in live action Spawn (never really named) were of course big news among comic geeks. Yes, she's ridiculously hot, and wears some interesting costumes, but really the people that have a problem with that tend to represent the actual minority.

Speaking for myself, I'm all for Angela's appearance in Marvel as it could introduce some concepts that haven't been heavily explored in that universe yet. I also admit that as much as I liked Spawn, I've had a sort of hate on for Mcfarlane since he went after Palladium (RPG company) years ago and forced them to change the name of their "Nightspawn" game to "Nightbane", claiming that the work was too similar to spawn and could cause confusion based on that name. One of the more "WTF" victories I've seen in these kinds of incidents. The way Todd has slapped around the little guy, I'd feel there was a bit of karmic justice if he somehow lost his most famous work/shared universe to a megalithic company like Disney/Marvel much the same way.


As far as Neil Gaiman's chops as a writer, it mostly comes from "Sandman" which arguably put DC's "Vertigo" on the map. He also did a seres of novels "American Gods", "Anasazi Boys", etc... which seemed to go over pretty well.

Anyone know what the comic was that he used an image of to illustrate "a few good books"? It looked kind of cool.

I know how this ends up going. I didn't know most of the context however. While next week is going to be old news for me, maybe linking it back to this info will give me some info I didn't know before.

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