Jimquisition: When The Starscreams Kill Used Games

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Used games, for me, are a way of getting some cash back after I purchase and have the credit count as discount to other games. Many others use it to try games out and see if they want to become invested in a franchise. Blocking the market will cause a massive shift towards the PC market or even just give up entirely. It's a shot in the groin for Microsoft and, if they actually try blocking used games, Sony

Thank you Jim for opening my eyes. I was almost turned back to the xbox one after they "debunked" the whole used game fee mess and after talk with my brother over the weekend, determinded to wait until E3 to give them a chance. But thank you for reminding me about how big P****s microsoft are when it comes to wanting to dominate a market, they did it with browsers, they did it with operating systems, and now it games.

You know, I've seen many smart people like Yahtzee and MovieBob give GameStop a bad rep along with everyone else. The Jimquisition was slowly taking me out of that mindset. After this episode, though, I have to wonder why I or anyone else ever tried to shit on them in the first place. I'm going to shop at GameStop as much as I want now... Though I'd prefer there be a competing game store as well.

Nimzabaat:
Title should have read "PS4 and Xbox One might possibly have killed used games and controlled second-hand sales (refuted by both companies but who really listens to Microsoft or Sony?) and some people are upset because they feel like being upset and don't want to wait for all the facts."

The most recent info is that MS has worked out a way that used game retailers can sell for whatever they want and everybody gets a cut. Sony has enabled the PS4 to block used content but is putting the onus on the publishers so a similar arrangement may be reached.

Oh and obviously MS requires the firstborn of every consumer because they're MS. Though seriously, the firstborn is like the trial kid where you make all your mistakes anyways.

And what publisher would want to block used games? I feel that the backlash of the blocking will completely outweigh any short-term profit gained by forcing people to buy new games. To turn people away from your product is a death sentence for a company.

Thank God for Jim!
First time I said that and I actually don't believe in such a being as God but whatever.
I guess you don't need to be an expert in economy to see where this trend is going.

Jimothy Sterling:

The Xbox One will kill used games and control second-hand sales, and some people think that's great. Jim Sterling is not among them.

Watch Video

could you PLEASE be so KIND and MAKE A VIDEO about KINECT2- and the PATENT which gives microsoftand OTHER companies the techical equipment AND the software to INSTALL A FUCKING BIG BROTHER

i dont joke, oh i dont and i fucking hope this never will be but there is this patent where microsof
wants YOU to pay MORE if you watch movies with your friend or wife (or dog?) if you bought a movie alone and registere it on your account and other people want to watch-fuckididudidu, sorry mr. dog, you will have to pay us MOAR

and that the thing has
face recognition AND can identify whether you smile or you are angry,
in which direction your look,
It can monitor your heart-rate
it sees you.

this is fucking creepy.

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/139706-microsofts-new-kinect-patent-goes-big-brother-will-spy-on-you-for-the-mpaa

i cite

"A content presentation system and method allowing content providers to regulate the presentation of content on a per-user-view basis. Content is distributed an associated license option on the number of individual consumers or viewers allowed to consume the content. Consumers are presented with a content selection and a choice of licenses allowing consumption of the content. The users consuming the content on a display device are monitored so that if the number of user-views licensed is exceeded, remedial action may be taken. "
(from teh patent:
http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=%2220120278904%22.PGNR.&OS=DN/20120278904&RS=DN/20120278904)

combine this with the knowledge from the wiredvideo:
http://www.wired.com/beyond_the_beyond/2013/05/augmented-reality-microsoft-demos-new-kinect/
and to cite extremtech again.."http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/156515-kinect-for-xbox-one-an-always-on-works-in-the-dark-camera-and-microphone-what-could-possibly-go-wrong"

"always-on, works-in-the-dark, microphone and camera that's constantly connected to the internet and 300,000 servers. What could possibly go wrong?"

i want to ask

WHY SEEMINGLY FUCKING nobody cares? serious? drm is bad shit bro, no thing but this? this is fucking freakshow and i am so pissed of that my english-centrer in my brain malfunktiones but if i write german, nobody will understand me.

i dont get it
i dont get it why everybunny whines about the shit microsoft is making because its like tv and drm and bah..-

but THIS shit flews under the radar?

what.
the
fuck.

sorry sir.

Yeah it's easy, to blame used games but from the developer's standpoint it looks about the same, three people have played the game but I have only made one sale. A valid concern but they also need to take the data at this. What the data says is that there are far, far more people that will pay $30 for a game than $60 and even more that would pay $20 instead of thirty.

Charge less, sell more.

WHat second had sales , rentals and trade do however do is allow you to reel in people that you wouldn't normally. Sure, If a friend lends me a game the publisher doesn't make a sale, but it allows me to experience their product and associate them with a positive experience (if the game is good) thusly I'll make a point of purchasing their next release.

See how that works. The big catch with the Xbone is that all these things are conspiring to create one very real scenario. The Xbone will never have as many unit sales as the 360 or perhaps even the original Xbox. That connection requirement and no used game thing alone will make the system un attractive in many overseas markets. Apparently MS and perhaps SOny think the gaming atlas only has Japan, USA and Europe, (and eventually Australia,...when they get around to it).

This was an excellent episode Jim, just excellent!!! I hope that people see that trying to get rid of used games will not solve any problems, just raise even more for the publishers to put the blame on some other thing that does not make any sense whatsoever.

To be fair jim i know people who will wait when a game they want comes out,
for it to plum it to 20 dollars. Not because it's bad.. but because they can get away with it.

Hell I've done it. It's not my go to move. If there's a game i really have to have I don't wait. But that seems to be some gamers go to move.

If this was a companies way of sticking it to the skin flints of the world I'd be fine with that. I did see game stop take a dive in sale so my question is..

Why hasn't game stop out right in response decided to stop carrying x box in full?

The reason steam sales are so successful isn't that they replace used games, but that they make an impulse buy. I plan out whether or not i'll have enough money to shell out $40-60 on a major release. If that same game that I wanted to play but couldn't afford is not $15, I'll often just straight-up buy it without a second thought.

One problem I've long seen is that developers as well as retailers are unwilling to realize that the value of their product depreciates much faster than they'd like to admit.

Injustice Gods Among Us is already on sale on Amazon for 49.99 even with the price of shipping it'll be cheaper than the 59.99 price tag they have at game-stop and other major retailers.

I've long contested that digital releases of games shouldn't cost as much as the disc version. If the price is to include the disc, case, processing and delivery then the downloadable version should be significantly less.

this are citations from the patent that microsoft has since November, 01. 2012.

all from here, the patent-online-thingy of the us-government:

http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=%2220120278904%22.PGNR.&OS=DN/20120278904&RS=DN/20120278904

i split the postings because one would be very long and hard to read thoroughly. but this is very important, so i citet the infos which deemed me important and packed it here. so i hope that doenst get a warning-but if it does-its worth. this shit scares the hellout of me. and i should do the same with you.

i CITE: (boldness added by me..)

"1. A method of distributing content to a user, comprising: providing a selection of content available to the user; for each content, presenting a licensing option comprising associating a performance of the content with an individual user's consumption of the content at a display device; receiving a selection of one of the content and a license display option for said content; presenting the content to the display device if a number of user performances allowed for the content is equal to or less than the license option for which the selection is received; and monitoring the presentation of the content at the device to determine the number of users consuming the content during the performance.
[...]
5. The method of claim 1 further including continuously monitoring a number of users at a display device during the performance of the content.
6. The method of claim 5 further including determining whether a number of users at a display device exceeds the license option during the performance of the content.
[...]
8. [b}A computer implemented[/b]* method for distributing limited play content to a user, comprising: transmitting a selection of audiovisual content to a display device, each content having one or more associated license option, each license option allowing a specified number one or more presentations to one or more users on the display device; receiving a selection of one of the content and a selection of a licensing option for said content; determining a number of users at the display device prior to presenting the content; presenting the content on the display device if the number of users at the display device is equal to or lower than that specified in the licensing option; and monitoring the presentation of the content to determine a number of viewers of the content during presentation of the content at the display device.
9. The method of claim 8 further including continuously monitoring a number of users at a presentation device during the presentation of the content
[...]
13. The method of claim 12** further including determining a user view by determining at least a number of users within a display area of a display device for a duration of the presentation exceeding a threshold.

14. The method of claim 12 further including identifying specific users within a display areaof a display device and associating a duration of the presentation with each user, and determining a user view when performance of the content to an identified user exceeds a threshold. "

15. receiving a selection of one of the content and a license display option for said content; scanning a display area of a display device selected for performance of the content; determining a number of users capable of viewing the performance at the display device; determining if the license display option is met; presenting the content on the device if a number of user views allowed for the content within a specific time period is equal to or less than the selection of the license display option; continuously monitoring the presentation of the content to determine the number of users consuming the content during the performance.

*so this shit will? might come to pcs...
**[like 8 and recognizing wherein]license option comprises a limited display of user views of the content

capcha: dead ringer..

the bells of death for microfuck
i wont buy that shit.

MB202:
You know, I've seen many smart people like Yahtzee and MovieBob give GameStop a bad rep along with everyone else. The Jimquisition was slowly taking me out of that mindset. After this episode, though, I have to wonder why I or anyone else ever tried to shit on them in the first place. I'm going to shop at GameStop as much as I want now... Though I'd prefer there be a competing game store as well.

I don't remember Yahtzee saying bad things about GameStop... Maybe it was a long time ago, when bioshock was considered okay/good in his books.

How simple do you have to make this for people to understand? There is no limit to how much profit a corporation desires. Literally no limit at all. And no matter how much more they get, they will not pay their workers better or make the world better or improve their products or shorten hours or do literally anything else that might decrease their profits in the short term if they do not absolutely have to.

Enough is never enough for these things. And no, they aren't people. They were never, ever people. They have always been machines.

My hope is this: The Xbox One has been one non-stop trainwreck since it's unveiling, dumping bucket-loads of new and terrible news to us each and every day, that I can only hope that it all blows up in their face so spectacularly that it'll make the Virtual Boy look like the Playstation 2 in terms of success.

Fees for used games?
Daily online checks and authentication?
No offline play without online activation?
Crippling the second-hand market and rentals?
Mandatory Kinect usage?
No backwards compatibility with Xbox or Xbox 360 games?
No transfer of downloaded Xbox 360 games to new system?
Still charging for online gaming?
Mandatory game installs?
Irremovable hard drives?
"Always-on, always-listening" Kinect privacy concerns?
Anti-consumer measures that violate the First Sale Doctrine?
Preventing indies from self-publishing?
Region-locking the system yet again?
No compatibility with Xbox 360 controllers or accessories?
Using Kinect to potentially charge you fees if too many people watch a movie?
Incompatible with any standard-def TV?
No means to play the system at all in nearly 60% of the world (including troops serving overseas)?
No support for most of their features outside of the continental USA?
Replicating stuff modern TVS ALREADY do, making such features pointless?
Kinect (and system) still not optimal for people with tiny apartments and small living rooms?
More hassles in registering and activating and reselling games, further inconveniencing the customers?

Geez! And that's only been the news in the past few DAYS.

My greatest fear is that, even with all that crap, it still sells well, because how much is TOO much for most people to throw their hands in the air and say it's not worth it? Is it when the system inconveniences you, or how about when it spies on you? Is it when it violates your consumer rights, or is it when it discards your prior 7-year collection of content? Is it when it forces daily only authentication checks, or is it when you find out it doesn't even work unless you have the right TV? Is it when it tries charging you during a movie party because you have too many friends over, or is it when the thing doesn't even work in your tiny dorm room?

Regardless, even if Microsoft abandons ALL these terrible ideas (not likely) or even if it fails spectacularly, the fact they even THOUGHT THEM UP in the first place is a terrible sign at how greedy, out-of-touch, and anti-consumer companies are becoming and how eager they are to rip your user-experience and convenience and even legal rights away if they think they're so big they can get away with it.

I'm MORE than eager to prove them WRONG.

Thank god for you, Jim.
But this one time I've got to disagree with you:

On the day when the industry has manages to slay it's last menacing foe it will NOT start to blame itself for it's own darn mistakes.

It will blame the customer of course.

Captcha: sick puppy. Fitting.

I wonder if the THQ guy who thought Udraw was a good idea still think piracy and used games are to blame for his company dying...

Thank god for you, Jim.
You said it much much better than i or any mortal could ever have.

rayen020:
I buy used games because i walk over to the new release section don't see anything that really interests me and then i find a game i was really interested in about three months ago only there aren't any new copies.

So very much this.
Console games go out of the shelves to make space for new ones so fast, that when several games come out at the same time, i have to pick one, and pray that i can find others used when i got more money.

Ofcourse, that has not been a problem lately, as i've simply stopped using my PS3 and playing mmo's on PC, and it's not like there's much games i'd even want to buy (the new dragon's dogma i guess, eventually, when i have money).

Marohen:
I think there is some fairness in arguing that the absence of used games doesn't harm a platform, since PC is doing fine without it

I don't get this argument I've been seeing as of late. I agree with your overall post, but this argument is something I've been seeing time and time again from the apologists who feel that this is no different from steam and we should just stop our complaining.

It misses the key difference when people buy from steam that the 360 is suffering right now: Steam does not have planned, built-in obsolescence. When I buy from Steam, I can expect those games to work on any computer that can connect and transfer over from steam. No strings attached.

Which is the exact opposite function of the XBone from what I've been seeing. The Xbone's entire modus operandi is that it can't transfer over from another console, that it can't be played anywhere outside the original XBone that decided it would activate it without buying the game again.

And anyone who says that the two are even remotely similar is a fool. A complete, drooling, tumbling fool. I've seen quite a few of these fools the past few days saying that because it's restricting access to all functions of a product aside from the actual product itself, it must be exactly like Steam which is more like a dispenser, a game ATM if you will, that allows one to withdraw games from any point that can connect to it.

Which is why I wish the fanboys would just jolly well shove it.

Trishbot:

Geez! And that's only been the news in the past few DAYS.

This is why I'm very reluctant to label anything as being a "Trainwreck". Certain people on the internet like to label everything they find distasteful as a "trainwreck", like it's somehow spectacular and amazing to watch unfold even though it's devastating and tragic.

This on the other hand? This is the true definition of a trainwreck. It's the slow motion descent of a company run by mad-men who feel that the way to save their runaway train is to speed it up faster in hopes of it coming off the rails before it meets the giant brick wall looming ahead of it. And we, at the station, can only stand here and stare. Stare at the morons who feel that this is the way to run a multi-billion dollar company.

Sugarman101:
We only have to look at the most recent Steam Sales to show that even fan favourite Valve stopped doing the biggest sales once they gained such a dominant position in the marketplace. The cheapest place to get Steam games these days usually isn't on Steam.

I disagree.
I've found a plethora of good sales, and I check by daily.
In the big winter sale I believe I bought about 5-7 games for just around 60$
Each game usually costs 30-50 dollars when not on sale.
Don't even get me started on the previous summer sale...

:D Thank God for you Jim!

I got to ask, what makes the Penny Arcade guy so sure good things will come from this. It doesn't sound like there is much evidence to back up his predictions of the industry's behavior. I don't just mean the examples Jim gave (and he gave many), but almost all their actions over the years. The prediction that things will be better for the players seems to be based a bit too much on optimism.

Sorry, I'm a positive pessimist. I hope I'm wrong, because it would be nice if they all get altruistic when they have all the power, but I won't be holding my breath.

Izanagi009:

Nimzabaat:
Title should have read "PS4 and Xbox One might possibly have killed used games and controlled second-hand sales (refuted by both companies but who really listens to Microsoft or Sony?) and some people are upset because they feel like being upset and don't want to wait for all the facts."

The most recent info is that MS has worked out a way that used game retailers can sell for whatever they want and everybody gets a cut. Sony has enabled the PS4 to block used content but is putting the onus on the publishers so a similar arrangement may be reached.

Oh and obviously MS requires the firstborn of every consumer because they're MS. Though seriously, the firstborn is like the trial kid where you make all your mistakes anyways.

And what publisher would want to block used games? I feel that the backlash of the blocking will completely outweigh any short-term profit gained by forcing people to buy new games. To turn people away from your product is a death sentence for a company.

Exactly. Sony's thing was that if anyone blocks used games it's not them, they just provided the technology. It's a song and dance routine to get out of the fact that they made the technology exist to begin with and then saw some backlash from it. Almost exactly the same backlash that we're seeing right now directed at MS.

So who's going to be the next boogeyman, Jim? Look in the mirror.

No, really, if used games go bye-bye and publishers continue to flail about, expect them to come after 'overly negative game journalists' up to and including filing anti-defamation lawsuits. These will fail spectacularly, of course, but it won't stop them from trying.

Nice hat Jim, but

Videogame prices are like gas prices. They will cost whatever publishers think the market will support. However unlike gas, the game companies are actually in competition with each other rather than working with, so we don't see the same price fluctuations. Few are willing to take that first step and raise prices again. I suspect when Gamestop is dead and gone, the next villain will be Steam, followed shortly by Amazon. There are lots of dragons that publishers have yet to slay and as long as there are internet stores not directly controlled by the publishers, there always will be.

That Total Biscuit video you cited was very good, Jim. Preorders are such an alien concept to me I haven't once done it. There is no way I'd put down my cash for something which I haven't seen in action.

Jimothy Sterling:
When The Starscreams Kill Used Games

The Xbox One will kill used games and control second-hand sales, and some people think that's great. Jim Sterling is not among them.

Watch Video

3:12 You've hurt me for the last time,Microsoft. 4:56 I agree. Whenever I get an weekly email from them (I'm a Powerup Rewards member), they're schilling a game that has a preorder bonus. Something's up. 7:02 This phrase is might get used a bunch by memers nowadays,but (from what I've seen so far) It's the Hitler of gaming! It wants ALL of the sales! It has people saying it's a good thing that we have LESS choice! to quote Will Ferrel from Zoolander: "Am I the only one noticing this?! I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!" 8:34 I'll tell ya want happens. You discover that your dragons were'nt dragons at all. That you've been slaughtering people this whole time. And when you finally come out your haze because you no longer have any creatures to slay,you're just left standing there in front of the staring populus,with their blood on your hands. I have but one question for you,Microsoft. Where's your crown,King Nothing? 8:50 You didn't think we'd forget,did you? XD

Izanagi009:
And what publisher would want to block used games? I feel that the backlash of the blocking will completely outweigh any short-term profit gained by forcing people to buy new games. To turn people away from your product is a death sentence for a company.

You're assuming that publishers look at the long term. They don't. I would go so far as to say that even beyond looking past a single weeks worth of sales is a stretch. It's why they've been trying to stir the panic up around used games recently despite that aspect of the industry being around almost as long as the new sales have been. Games made today are so short and have so little replay value that they're getting resold within that first week and it's cutting into new game sales.

http://venturebeat.com/2010/10/13/what-is-the-real-problem-with-used-games/

This article puts the concept into much more detail.

MB202:
You know, I've seen many smart people like Yahtzee and MovieBob give GameStop a bad rep along with everyone else. The Jimquisition was slowly taking me out of that mindset. After this episode, though, I have to wonder why I or anyone else ever tried to shit on them in the first place. I'm going to shop at GameStop as much as I want now... Though I'd prefer there be a competing game store as well.

I know that there are, of course, differences between stores because of who they hire, but I've never once had a bad experience with any of the local GameStops, and always wondered why people seemed to have such deep-seated hatred for them outside of possibly bad experiences with apathetic, snotty, or unhelpful employees.

And yeah, admittedly I don't have the same soapbox that Jim does, but I've tried getting across multiple times that the reason GameStop pushes used games so aggressively is because it's the only way they actually make any money. They shell out the price of getting new games shipped to them, and publishers take the profits from actually selling new games. How else do you expect them to keep their business afloat? It's not some conspiracy to deprive poor developers from getting paid (I doubt they get much of the royalties that the publisher takes anyway), it's just them trying to make a sustainable source of income, like every other person on this greedy planet.

Sadly I don't think publishers will ever stop looking for invisible boogeymen in the shadows. After all, the reason they're losing money and failing to meet expectations can't possibly be because of market oversaturation, unrealistic sales projections, and the fact that they all release their big titles during the same few months every year.

most of the used game I buy, I do so because I am unsure if I will 100% like the game or was an impulse buy. In other words - I wasn't going to buy it brand new to begin with and only bought it because it was cheap. From my circle of friends I am not the only person that does this

Nimzabaat:
Title should have read "PS4 and Xbox One might possibly have killed used games and controlled second-hand sales (refuted by both companies but who really listens to Microsoft or Sony?) and some people are upset because they feel like being upset and don't want to wait for all the facts."

The most recent info is that MS has worked out a way that used game retailers can sell for whatever they want and everybody gets a cut. Sony has enabled the PS4 to block used content but is putting the onus on the publishers so a similar arrangement may be reached.

Oh and obviously MS requires the firstborn of every consumer because they're MS. Though seriously, the firstborn is like the trial kid where you make all your mistakes anyways.

I think this video is appropriate: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATuHBmx-vP8&list=FLV34AwPWSnb5jFGhBfgZZoA Am I going crazy? Possible. But I'm sane enought to know BC (Bull crap) when I see/hear it. I don't want a industry that I've loved for 14 years now. I don't want the bad crazy running the show. I don't entirely know what's going on in the world. That's true. But don't spew bullocks and expect me to stay silent if you can't placate me. Because then we'll start askin g questions. Question that I'm willing to bet people like EA don't have proper answers to.

Oh boy don't remind me of that "article" on PA... someone must have greased his palms big time.
Overall, I wonder how they can fail to see the Steam's success and yet still fail to see how gradually lowering prices would lead to higher sales. Huge parts of the used games market would go to the publishers instead of Gamestop if they'd just have sales.

Is it just CEOs not understanding the concept of not having unlimited money?

The problem with me watching Jimquisition at work is I get extra-twitchy at sloppy mic placement. Jim: lav mic goes on the tie or the inside edge of the jacket. You want a maximum of a ruler's length between your mouth and the mic; that way, you capture a fuller sound and can drop your input level to remove some of that hissy room tone/white noise.

Nice episode. What Wizardry-looking game was that playing through 3/4 of the video? Intrigued.

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