Xbox One's Frame Rate: Kid Rejected, Mother Approved

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Requia:

Vigormortis:
It bares reposting because:

A: It demonstrates the difference simply and beautifully.
-and-
B: People STILL assert there's no difference.

So here it is - https://boallen.com/fps-compare.html

If you can honestly sit there and tell me that there's no visible difference between the fluidity of the 30 and the 60 fps samples, then I bow to you. Or I may call you a liar. Not sure.

Yes, you can tell the difference because one says 30 and one says 60.

Not that you don't *see* a difference mind you, but the way these things work as long as the two are labelled the comparison is meaningless. In a side by side comparison where you aren't *told* the difference you may not be able to see it.

I call outright bullshit. This isn't like sometimes hard to see stuff if you're not lookin properly like AA (though I'm so used to AA that I notice when there isn't any). FPS is noticeable no matter what number its at. 30 fps is choppy compared to 60 unless your eyesight is incredibly bad. Even then you'd still notice the difference between 30 and 60.

Requia:

Vigormortis:
It bares reposting because:

A: It demonstrates the difference simply and beautifully.
-and-
B: People STILL assert there's no difference.

So here it is - https://boallen.com/fps-compare.html

If you can honestly sit there and tell me that there's no visible difference between the fluidity of the 30 and the 60 fps samples, then I bow to you. Or I may call you a liar. Not sure.

Yes, you can tell the difference because one says 30 and one says 60.

Not that you don't *see* a difference mind you, but the way these things work as long as the two are labelled the comparison is meaningless. In a side by side comparison where you aren't *told* the difference you may not be able to see it.

Then how come I can always tell when a TV/monitor/projector is doing above 30 when there is no numbers to tell me?

Perhaps I have some innate bond with technology? Whoo!

TheDrunkNinja:
Is it just me, or has Cory been drawing Erin rather... cute lately?

Yes. Within the last 10 strips, the more subtle kind of fanservice has begun to ensue.

Ed130 The Vanguard:

Snotnarok:
Red Mystery Fluid isn't comparable to ketchup, that's like comparing apples and artificially and naturally flavored apple bars! ...:V

Also on a more serious note, where did this myth come from that you can't see more than 30fps? I mean shouldn't that just not even be a thing as it's easily testable or just look at NTSC vs PAL 60vs50 it's noticeable there and that's just 10 frames.

People are crazy.

Never underestimate the power of the fanboy to deny logic and reality.

There is no denying of logic and reality, there is a noticeable difference no matter how many people spout the myth that we cannot see more than 30fps. For a start, go and read this: http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frames_can_humans_see.htm

If there was no difference between 30fps and 60fps there would be no difference (or very little) between watching the hobbit and other upcoming movies in 48 fps vs. the traditional 24 fps. The difference is highly noticeable and most akin the experience to watching the movie in fast-motion; and this isn't the end either, there is already a technique for 60 fps films called 'Showscan'.

Taking a recent example of easily noticeable FPS differences why don't we look at Tales of Symphonia chronicles... if you go to just about forum any thread/gamefaq question created on launch day you will see a bunch of people wondering why the game looks worse than it's gamecube counterpart and it doesn't take long for someone to enlighten them that the game is now playing at 30 fps compared to 60 fps like it was on the gamecube; For someone who played the original on gamecube 10+ times the difference when booting up the PS3 HD remake was immediately noticeable and I truly didn't find out about the difference for several days.

I assumed it was something to do with a TV format incompatibility because I live in Australia and I imported my copy from the US, but no, it was simply the difference between 30 and 60 fps. It lacks fluidity, it feels choppy.

You cannot make the argument that you can't tell the difference when playing a game unless there is an fps counter, while it semi holds true, if you picked up a random game on the xbox one and it was developed to play at 30 fps you likely wouldn't be able to just tell it was running at that without some outside help BUT that doesn't mean there isn't a difference, it means you have absolutely nothing to compare it to, you might attribute choppiness or anything else as game design rather than FPS problem. If you think a game looks and plays brilliantly on 30 fps then just imagine how much better it would be at 60 fps.

It would only take comparing a game running at 30 or 40 fps on the xbox one to running the exact same game at 60 fps on a PC or PS4 for anyone to notice the difference.

Uh, just when this comic was getting good again, it jumps right back on the everyone-under-the sun-has-already-made-this-observation-and-it's-not-even-funny train.

*sighs* you know, I said the same thing about resolutions when people were flipping out about those earlier this year.

WHO THE BLOODY FLIPPIN HECK CARES!!!

yes I realize it matters to some people, but apologies if I don't feel bad when I label those people the same as I do whoever made laws about not drinking on sunday*. Overbearing sensitive people who think they know better and thus "Everyone needs this 'wonderful' thing". spoiler warning, the world isn't all the same. if you worry so much about the technical side of things, you're not going to have fun with the game. so my only concern is "does it play? is it fun?". and honestly, most of the games recently I've played, would look like crap at 60 fps 1080p, but that's cause they don't need those kinda stats. they're fun as is. so if a game works well at 45 fps, or 25, or 50, and its fun, good, mission accomplished, you had fun with a game. not a technical spreadsheet.

*:this poster doesn't have anything against any groups, named or alluded to, and was simply using this as an example for reasons of comparison. nor does he care about any of said groups in general.

Chaosritter:

Snotnarok:
Also on a more serious note, where did this myth come from that you can't see more than 30fps? I mean shouldn't that just not even be a thing as it's easily testable or just look at NTSC vs PAL 60vs50 it's noticeable there and that's just 10 frames.

Ehm, FPS=/=refresh rate.

Back in the old days, some developers were simply too incompetent or lazy to properly adapt their games to PAL standards. When done correctly, you won't notice a difference to the 60Hz version. I guess the best examples how to do and not do it are Sonic 1 and 2 on Mega Drive.

European consoles from that era can also run most NTSC games with no problems at all. While cartridge based consoles needed a rather extensive mod to unlock the capability to run 60Hz games properly (usually a lot of wires and levers involved), all you needed for your PSX was either a boot disc that bypasses the region check or a modchip. Add an RGB cable and a 60Hz compatible TV to the list (back in the days when TFT was nowhere in sight, european TV's were usually limited to 50Hz) and you could run US games in full speed and color. The devs could have added a 50/60Hz option back then just as well. Lots of pirated games from that time let you choose between the trusty sucks-to-be-you 50Hz mode and the original 60Hz mode while the legit versions forced you to bother with the lazy ass "PAL adaptation"...

Btw, unless you still have a CRT monitor, the one you're using right now has a fixed refresh rate of 60Hz as well.

I'm aware of all that such stuff, found out a lot back when when diving into emulators and what not. But there's no mention of the myth of how 30fps is the fps limit your eyes can see, it's not a new thing either it's been around for quite some time. I know games even had issue of music being much slower such as Sonic 1 and Phantasy Star IV.

That last part isn't true at all, they have 120hz monitors they're just less common.

Realize of course that such issues could be avoided simply by embracing the glory that is PC Gaming.

Whatislove:

Ed130 The Vanguard:

Snotnarok:
Red Mystery Fluid isn't comparable to ketchup, that's like comparing apples and artificially and naturally flavored apple bars! ...:V

Also on a more serious note, where did this myth come from that you can't see more than 30fps? I mean shouldn't that just not even be a thing as it's easily testable or just look at NTSC vs PAL 60vs50 it's noticeable there and that's just 10 frames.

People are crazy.

Never underestimate the power of the fanboy to deny logic and reality.

Snipple

I think he was on your side of the argument, bud :P "People are crazy" with a response about "denying reality" seems to go hand-in-hand. HOLD YOUR ESSAYS, esé.

OT:
Yep. Yep... It's still really sad. :L

Ferisar:

Whatislove:

Ed130 The Vanguard:

Never underestimate the power of the fanboy to deny logic and reality.

Snipple

I think he was on your side of the argument, bud :P "People are crazy" with a response about "denying reality" seems to go hand-in-hand. HOLD YOUR ESSAYS, esé.

OT:
Yep. Yep... It's still really sad. :L

My mistake >.<

I read it as "Fanboys will do anything to justify there being a difference between 30 and 60 fps".

The subject just really angers me, the whole 'our eyes can't even see 60 fps' argument is just so stupid. so, so stupid.

Of course we can see more than that, our brain uses blur, object movement anticipation, even 'doubling' up of the 'frames' we see and a whole lot of other techniques to give us our final vision, in my link in the first post it tells of an example that fighter pilots were able to identify enemy aircraft flashed at 1/220th of a second.

There is so much difference between how many frames we can see and the fluidity, detail and perceived quality of what we are looking at.

Except mom does it because of love and not because she is being paid to lie. :P

Whatislove:

Ferisar:

Whatislove:

Snipple

I think he was on your side of the argument, bud :P "People are crazy" with a response about "denying reality" seems to go hand-in-hand. HOLD YOUR ESSAYS, esé.

OT:
Yep. Yep... It's still really sad. :L

My mistake >.<

I read it as "Fanboys will do anything to justify there being a difference between 30 and 60 fps".

The subject just really angers me, the whole 'our eyes can't even see 60 fps' argument is just so stupid. so, so stupid.

Of course we can see more than that, our brain uses blur, object movement anticipation, even 'doubling' up of the 'frames' we see and a whole lot of other techniques to give us our final vision, in my link in the first post it tells of an example that fighter pilots were able to identify enemy aircraft flashed at 1/220th of a second.

There is so much difference between how many frames we can see and the fluidity, detail and perceived quality of what we are looking at.

TO BE ENTIRELY FAIR, it becomes a lot more of a conscious effort to tell those apart the higher you climb, especially when your perception isn't being challenged constantly. That and type of monitor and yada yada yada. I agree that telling the difference between 30-60 is cake, and really can't imagine people who can't do it without just outright lying about it. If someone told me "hey can you see the difference between 200 and 150 FPS" I would probably struggle. Although, afaik, I don't think I can do that.

But yeah, your point stands. Human eyesight is complicated. More complicated than the console peasants would have us believe.

:P

I used not to care about the fps too much way back in the day when all I ever knew was ~30 fps, especially before I started recording gameplay videos. When you can literally switch the fps between 60+ and ~30 on a newer computer with the press of a button (recording off/on), you really notice it and realize how sluggish 30 fps feels. It's still okay for a lot of games, but it does feel a lot less responsive. It's probably worst for first person shooters, though, where quick and precise reactions are so important.

Ferisar:

TO BE ENTIRELY FAIR, it becomes a lot more of a conscious effort to tell those apart the higher you climb, especially when your perception isn't being challenged constantly. That and type of monitor and yada yada yada. I agree that telling the difference between 30-60 is cake, and really can't imagine people who can't do it without just outright lying about it. If someone told me "hey can you see the difference between 200 and 150 FPS" I would probably struggle. Although, afaik, I don't think I can do that.

But yeah, your point stands. Human eyesight is complicated. More complicated than the console peasants would have us believe.

:P

Oh there is definitely some kind of upper limit to when we can perceive differences.

It would be much harder to see the difference between 60 and 90 and damn near (if not entirely) impossible to tell the difference between 90 and anything above 100 and so on.

I think the biggest factor is: How much is what we are looking at actually changing frame to frame?

If you were showing a video of fog slowly descending on a static background, you could play this at just about any FPS, as low as 1-5 fps, and it would look smooth because there is almost no difference frame to frame but when you are watching something, like a video game, that has fast moving objects, a whole screen full of variables, camera angle/viewing angle changes, lighting and shadow changes, depth of view changes and changes in objects in different depths of view, etc, you need a much higher frame rate to show all these changes that are happening in fractions of a second.

Slegiar Dryke:
WHO THE BLOODY FLIPPIN HECK CARES!!!

This is a growing attitude I've taken a real dislike to, as someone who's done a lot of editing and design work, and this is not just targeted at you because of how common it is these days. Reducing your appraisal of a game to "is it fun?" is just straight up ignoring all the detail in the design that makes a game "just fun" and gives it that particular feel. The fact that you don't notice some design choice doesn't mean that that element of the design doesn't exist or isn't important anymore. The "smooth" feeling 60fps gives over 30fps is an insanely important choice depending on the type of game, the animations it uses, etc. It's not that 60fps is always better, more that regardless of whether you can consciously count the frames it affects the presentation of the game and hence how people will enjoy it. To dismiss that importance or straight up deny there being a difference at all, like these journalists, is to stick your head in the sand.

It's less about comparing spreadsheets and more about: if some game designer needs a console that can maintain 60fps because his game loses pace or responsiveness with only 30, and that console can't maintain 60, then that's a design issue. Some games are fine with 30, but the difference matters.

But that dismissive attitude is related to a more general ability that takes time to learn, which is the double perspective you need to be able to immerse yourself in a game and also think critically about why you're enjoying or hating it. It's much easier to stop doing the latter and just become part of the game experience, but you don't learn as much from it.

Whatislove:
The subject just really angers me, the whole 'our eyes can't even see 60 fps' argument is just so stupid. so, so stupid.

Of course we can see more than that, our brain uses blur, object movement anticipation, even 'doubling' up of the 'frames' we see and a whole lot of other techniques to give us our final vision, in my link in the first post it tells of an example that fighter pilots were able to identify enemy aircraft flashed at 1/220th of a second.

There is so much difference between how many frames we can see and the fluidity, detail and perceived quality of what we are looking at.

Same here. My real beef with it is that question itself is flawed. It's often framed as "How many FPS can the eye see?" which is straight up misleading in assuming our eyes and brain work like a camera with fixed FPS. There's so many tiny intricacies to human sight that so few people understand and we throw it out the window by asking questions with assumptions like that.

Agayek:

The Wooster:
Xbox One's Frame Rate: Kid Rejected, Mother Approved

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To be entirely fair, 30 fps is better for some games.

But on the other hand, that list consists entirely of games whose developers, the idiots that they are, thought it was a bright idea to use the framerate as a timer.

And Tournament Fighter (Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, ect.)

Slegiar Dryke:
*sighs* you know, I said the same thing about resolutions when people were flipping out about those earlier this year.

WHO THE BLOODY FLIPPIN HECK CARES!!!
.

resolution doesn't matter?.....of coarse it friggen matters!...whoever says it doesn't I'm not sure has actually sat down to see the difference. Of coarse my favorite movie is still going to be my favorite movie regardless of weather I watch it on Blu-ray or DVD but give me the choice I'll go for the one that looks better. Also if you went back and watched it on Video then you'd sure as hell notice the difference compared to what we have now (espeically an old worn video) even if people at the time said "well what difference is there really?" I played on a 1280x720 laptop screen and while it seemed perfectly fine to me at the time after I got a 1080p 20-something inch monitor I could definitely see the difference

the reason people got themselves over a twist in regards to resolution on consoles is 1080p is the standard, and the Xbox is behind that standard.

as for FPS there is a difference and in regards to games the smoothest you can get it the better

and more to the point WHAT game could possibly look worse in 1080p and 60FPS?

QuadFish:

This is a growing attitude I've taken a real dislike to, .

I suspect they actually DO care....

Speaking of resolutions: If I have the choice between 30 fps 1080p and 60 fps 720p, I'll go with the latter, at least in first person shooters and the like, because there the game flow and feel is more important than the visual fidelity.

Requia:

Yes, you can tell the difference because one says 30 and one says 60.

Not that you don't *see* a difference mind you, but the way these things work as long as the two are labelled the comparison is meaningless. In a side by side comparison where you aren't *told* the difference you may not be able to see it.

Irrelevant. It doesn't matter if they're labeled in this instance.

The link isn't some questionnaire asking the person to spot the difference. It's a demonstration of the difference. Someone's inability, or more likely refusal, to see it is beside the point.

But, if anyone is interested in a more robust demonstration, here is a better one - http://frames-per-second.appspot.com/

Regardless, it doesn't matter whether or not someone can or can't tell the difference. Objectively speaking, there is a difference. Sixty frames per second, in terms of attempting to achieve a more fluid animation, is objectively better than thirty frames per second.

That's the point of the comic. It's the reason the claims made by Microsoft, and subsequent fans, were bullshit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_rate

Vault101:

and more to the point WHAT game could possibly look worse in 1080p and 60FPS?

while off the top of my head I can't list one that would be affected by the fps (which is to say Either/Or. not just if it was pushed to 60 or something else), I can clear up generally any questions aimed at my disdain for higher resolutions by saying that despite all the races for graphics, fps, resolution, multiplayer, and etc, I grew up loving the older generations, and still do to this day. my library of more recent games stops at the ps3 (pc games as well, but nothing super crazy, mostly indies), but goes all the way back to the snes.

so

you want a game? pick one from beween the wii and the snes. part of my ire towards resolutions isn't just to the push of hardware, but the tv manufacturers as well (okay, i guess that's hardware too...different anyway). I'll summarize it by saying, try playing even skyward sword on, not even a 1080p tv, but a 720p tv that's trying to scale itself down to display properly. you'll still see the artifacts, the various graphical glitches, and the fuzzyness. enough said. we're killing our older games by pushing them away with resolutions. maybe not in the entirety, but it sure doesn't help. hello salvation by emulators =/

Slegiar Dryke:

you want a game? pick one from beween the wii and the snes. part of my ire towards resolutions isn't just to the push of hardware, but the tv manufacturers as well (okay, i guess that's hardware too...different anyway). I'll summarize it by saying, try playing even skyward sword on, not even a 1080p tv, but a 720p tv that's trying to scale itself down to display properly. you'll still see the artifacts, the various graphical glitches, and the fuzzyness. enough said. we're killing our older games by pushing them away with resolutions. maybe not in the entirety, but it sure doesn't help. hello salvation by emulators =/

this whole argument is not about older games, what relevance do older games have with the Xbone or any of this? getting older games to run on modern technology can be a pain in the ass, but thats irrelevant!..I'm not gonna get a friggen 800x600 monitor just because dungeon keeper looks incomprehensible stretched out, I'll just play it windowed..its small as hell but at least its sharp

Vigormortis:
[snipe

holy shit....turn off motion blur on both moons..set one to 60 and the other to 30 and the milky way to 60 the difference is astounding..I don't believe it...

Vault101:

holy shit....turn off motion blur on both moons..set one to 60 and the other to 30 and the milky way to 60 the difference is astounding..I don't believe it...

Oh, believe it. Without any visual effect covering it up the difference between sixty and thirty frames per second is almost jarring.

Vigormortis:
It bares reposting because:

A: It demonstrates the difference simply and beautifully.
-and-
B: People STILL assert there's no differnce.

So here it is - https://boallen.com/fps-compare.html

If you can honestly sit there and tell me that there's no visible difference between the fluidity of the 30 and the 60 fps samples, then I bow to you. Or I may call you a liar. Not sure.

Just looked at your link, and while I can tell the diffrence, it is so minuscule that I can't see why people get up in arms about it. If they'd been shown one by one instead of side by side then I bet I wouldn't be able tell the difference.
I think the only genre where it matters one iota is a fighting game such as Street Fighter.

kickyourass:
It's less that there's 'no difference' or one being 'better,' I mean 60 is clearly a much different, much larger number than 30. It's more that if you played something at 30 FPS and than at 60 FPS, 9 times out of 10 you would probably have to TELL me which one is which. I would so rarely be able to legitimately tell the difference on my own that I really don't give a shit.

That's the point I'm trying to make but I fear I wasn't making clear enough.

edit: the best visually looking game on the ps4 right now is Infamous: Second Son. It runs at 25-45 fps and developers are making it so you can lock ghe fps at 30 fps in a patch. So in summarision, the best looking console game (barring XB1 which I've only played Ghosts on) doesn't go above 45 fps.
This is why this argument confuses me.

Aaron Sylvester:
But..but...everyone knows the human eye can't see more than 30 fps! Various console peasants have attested to this! How can they possibly be wrong?

what is it meant to be, 24fps or something like that that the average eye can register.

I always thought, whats that matter unless your monitor can sync up with your eye lol

As someone who is used to playing games at 20 FPS because of a shit laptop I never understood this discussion. Same like I never understood why MOAR PIXLZ!!! is such a big deal. I play fun games. If they look good, all the better, but not necessary.
Some people might think I label them graphics whore out of envy, because they can enjoy Crysis 3 on max settings while my laptop would melt even looking at it. They might be partially right, but if your enjoyment of a game comes mainly from a pretty picture, you deserve that label.

Disclaimer: I mostly play RPG and strategy games, the only notable titles in my games library in need of fluidity are DMC4, Batman: AC and UT2004. As you can see, not a shooter fan.

Dominic Crossman:

Just looked at your link, and while I can tell the diffrence, it is so minuscule that I can't see why people get up in arms about it. If they'd been shown one by one instead of side by side then I bet I wouldn't be able tell the difference.

This is actually a better demonstration of the differences - http://frames-per-second.appspot.com/

And believe me, you'll see the difference between 30 and 60.

I think the only genre where it matters one iota is a fighting game such as Street Fighter.

Consistent, and more to the point consistently high, frame rates are incredibly crucial for competitive games in the FPS and RTS genres.

With first person shooters any jitter or jarring transitions in frame rate; and critically low frame rates; can often have drastic effects on a number of things that play into the games and subsequently the players performance.

With RTS games, depending on type of course, poor frame rates can lead to positional and animation errors or desyncs. This can lead to a player having a much more difficult time effectively micro'ing and gaining proper unit and situational awareness.

This is lightly covered in this wiki - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_rate But further information on the topic can be found with a quick Google search.

Dominic Crossman:
snip

take the motion blur off both moons...set one to 60 and one to 30 and set the background to 60

Slegiar Dryke:
*sighs* you know, I said the same thing about resolutions when people were flipping out about those earlier this year.

WHO THE BLOODY FLIPPIN HECK CARES!!!

Literally everyone who's used to 50+ FPS.

Controlling anything with a mouse at 30- FPS is a bleeding nightmare.

Vault101:
and more to the point WHAT game could possibly look worse in 1080p and 60FPS?

Dwarf Fortress?

:D

Just stare at every last perfectly-formed uberpixel!

Like an idiot, I'm going to throw my hat into the ring.

Yes, there is a difference between 30 and 60. There's no denying this. However, there are people who clearly can't tell the difference. That or the difference is one that they simply can't put their finger on or just don't care.

However, that doesn't change the fact that more is generally better. Now, there are indeed games that don't need the full 60. In my opinion, the list of genres that "need" 60fps is actually quite small. Typically these are A) highly competitive and B) feature lots of motion. In both those cases, double the visual information is a huge advantage. This is stuff like shooters, fighting games, MOBAs, RTSs, character action games like Bayonetta, etc. Hell, you could even argue racing games.

Your average bog-standard platformer, though? That avant-garde puzzle game? Games that only take place on a single screen, a la Civilization or Papers, Please? Yeah, you probably don't "need" 60 fps. In those cases, Settling for 30 is just fine.

Now, keep in mind, this is only true for video games, in my opinion. As far as film goes, I honestly can't see myself ever preferring a film on a framerate above 24 or 30. Sure, there may come a day when the fabled "48 revolution" may come, but it's not happening anytime soon. Hollywood decided upon 24fps for arbitrary reasons over a century ago. There's no denying that. However, after 100 years of sticking with just the one standard, we are collectively used to it.

So used to it that 48 just looks... weird. It's too natural. Too smooth. Now, that's not to say that it can't look great. The big elaborate battles in Hobbit 2 look great in 48. However, take that same framerate and stick it in a quiet interior dialogue scene and it's off-putting.

Like I said earlier, this may not always be true. The tech and techniques behind 48 in film is always growing. There will probably be a day when it looks good. But as of this moment? Nah.

Vigormortis:

Dominic Crossman:

Just looked at your link, and while I can tell the diffrence, it is so minuscule that I can't see why people get up in arms about it. If they'd been shown one by one instead of side by side then I bet I wouldn't be able tell the difference.

This is actually a better demonstration of the differences - http://frames-per-second.appspot.com/

And believe me, you'll see the difference between 30 and 60.

I think the only genre where it matters one iota is a fighting game such as Street Fighter.

Consistent, and more to the point consistently high, frame rates are incredibly crucial for competitive games in the FPS and RTS genres.

With first person shooters any jitter or jarring transitions in frame rate; and critically low frame rates; can often have drastic effects on a number of things that play into the games and subsequently the players performance.

With RTS games, depending on type of course, poor frame rates can lead to positional and animation errors or desyncs. This can lead to a player having a much more difficult time effectively micro'ing and gaining proper unit and situational awareness.

This is lightly covered in this wiki - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_rate But further information on the topic can be found with a quick Google search.

Vault101:

Dominic Crossman:
snip

take the motion blur off both moons...set one to 60 and one to 30 and set the background to 60

That was more noticable to be fair.
As to saying framerate matters in first person shooters and rts games
Lag is such a big problem for me that the framerate become trivial whether or not it matters normally, and I don't play offline on them so I can't say in that regard. Plus your problem seems to be the stability of the framerate, which does annoy me, as opposed to the 30/60 argument. (I probably misunderstand what you mean)
As for RTS games, I wouldn't know cus I suck at them, so I dont play them :p

edit: also, I seem to be getting the impression the that pro 60 fps people are PC gamers, while don't care/see no diffrence people are console players.

Anyone who thinks 60FPS doesn't bring any noticeable fluidity:

Watch this Bayonetta 2 video running at 60FPS and think again. If the WiiU can pull it off, maybe the XBOne should spare a few more cores to the games instead of all the OS bloatware running in the background.

Edit: Embedding not working, just watch the 2nd video here: http://platinumgames.com/2014/02/14/bayonetta-2-coming-to-wii-u-in-2014/

dangoball:
As someone who is used to playing games at 20 FPS because of a shit laptop I never understood this discussion. Same like I never understood why MOAR PIXLZ!!! is such a big deal. I play fun games. If they look good, all the better, but not necessary.
Some people might think I label them graphics whore out of envy, because they can enjoy Crysis 3 on max settings while my laptop would melt even looking at it. They might be partially right, but if your enjoyment of a game comes mainly from a pretty picture, you deserve that label.

Disclaimer: I mostly play RPG and strategy games, the only notable titles in my games library in need of fluidity are DMC4, Batman: AC and UT2004. As you can see, not a shooter fan.

thats kind of like saying people who don't particularly want to watch a movie projected onto a grafiti laced wall with laptop speakers are just being fussy

SKBPinkie:
Honest question - do images such as the one in the last panel actually make people laugh? Not being snarky, here; I'm genuinely curious.

Cause to be honest, that type of stuff just makes me sad.

Absolutely. It was my favorite part honestly. There's something to depressing jokes like that one which I find humorous. Even though my brother is likely to end a baseball player and I'll be lucky to make it as a teacher. The fact that it points a depressing idea in a funny way just gets me I guess?

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